Wikipedia:Featured article candidates

For the criteria to become a featured article, see Wikipedia:Featured article criteria.

For the similar process page for good articles, see Wikipedia:Good article nominations.

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This star, with one point broken, indicates that an article is a candidate on this page. Here, we determine which articles are to be featured articles (FAs). FAs exemplify Wikipedia's very best work and satisfy the FA criteria. All editors are welcome to review nominations; please see the review FAQ. Before nominating an article, nominators may wish to receive feedback by listing it at Peer review and adding the review to the FAC peer review sidebar. Editors considering their first nomination, and any subsequent nomination before their first FA promotion, are strongly advised to seek the involvement of a mentor, to assist in the preparation and processing of the nomination. Nominators must be sufficiently familiar with the subject matter and sources to deal with objections during the featured article candidates (FAC) process. Nominators who are not significant contributors to the article should consult regular editors of the article before nominating it. Nominators are expected to respond positively to constructive criticism and to make efforts to address objections promptly. An article should not be on Featured article candidates and Peer review or Good article nominations at the same time. The FAC coordinators—Ian Rose, Gog the Mild, David Fuchs and FrB.TG—determine the timing of the process for each nomination. For a nomination to be promoted to FA status, consensus must be reached that it meets the criteria. Consensus is built among reviewers and nominators; the coordinators determine whether there is consensus. A nomination will be removed from the list and archived if, in the judgment of the coordinators: actionable objections have not been resolved; consensus for promotion has not been reached; insufficient information has been provided by reviewers to judge whether the criteria have been met; or a nomination is unprepared. It is assumed that all nominations have good qualities; this is why the main thrust of the process is to generate and resolve critical comments in relation to the criteria, and why such resolution is given considerably more weight than declarations of support. Do not use graphics or complex templates on FAC nomination pages. Graphics such as  Done and  Not done slow down the page load time, and complex templates can lead to errors in the FAC archives. For technical reasons, templates that are acceptable are {{collapse top}} and {{collapse bottom}}, used to hide offtopic discussions, and templates such as {{green}} that apply colours to text and are used to highlight examples without altering fonts. Other templates such as {{done}}, {{not done}}, {{tq}}, {{tq2}}, and {{xt}}, may be removed. An editor is normally allowed to be the sole nominator of one article at a time, but two nominations are allowed if the editor is a co-nominator on at least one of them. An editor may ask the approval of the coordinators to add a second sole nomination after the first has gained significant support. If a nomination is archived, the nominator(s) should take adequate time to work on resolving issues before re-nominating. None of the nominators may nominate or co-nominate any article for two weeks unless given leave to do so by a coordinator; if such an article is nominated without asking for leave, a coordinator will decide whether to remove it. A coordinator may exempt from this restriction an archived nomination that attracted no (or minimal) feedback. Nominations in urgent need of review are listed here. To contact the FAC coordinators, please leave a message on the FAC talk page, or use the {{@FAC}} notification template elsewhere. A bot will update the article talk page after the article is promoted or the nomination archived; the delay in bot processing can range from minutes to several days, and the {{FAC}} template should remain on the talk page until the bot updates {{Article history}}. Table of Contents – This page:

Featured content: Featured articles ← Featured lists Featured pictures Featured topics Featured article candidates (FAC): Featured article criteria Featured article log Featured article statistics Featured article review (FAR): Archived FARs Former featured articles Unreviewed featured articles/2020 Today's featured article (TFA): This month's queue About Today's featured article Recent TFAs and statistics Current TFA requests Potential TFA requests TFA oddities Most viewed TFAs Featured articles yet to appear as TFA Script to track TFA recent changes Featured article tools: Mentoring for FAC Nominators of featured articles promoted Recent changes to featured articles Random featured article

Nominating How to nominate an article Nomination procedure Before nominating an article, ensure that it meets all of the FA criteria and that peer reviews are closed and archived. Place {{subst:FAC}} at the top of the talk page of the nominated article and save the page. From the FAC template, click on the red "initiate the nomination" link or the blue "leave comments" link. You will see pre-loaded information; leave that text. If you are unsure how to complete a nomination, please post to the FAC talk page for assistance. Below the preloaded title, complete the nomination page, sign with ~~~~, and save the page. Copy this text: {{Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/name of nominated article/archiveNumber}} (substituting Number), and edit this page (i.e., the page you are reading at the moment), pasting the template at the top of the list of candidates. Replace "name of ..." with the name of your nomination. This will transclude the nomination into this page. In the event that the title of the nomination page differs from this format, use the page's title instead. Commenting, etc Commenting, supporting and opposing Supporting and opposing To respond to a nomination, click the "Edit" link to the right of the article nomination (not the "Edit this page" link for the whole FAC page). All editors are welcome to review nominations; see the review FAQ for an overview of the review process. To support a nomination, write *'''Support''', followed by your reason(s), which should be based on a full reading of the text. If you have been a significant contributor to the article before its nomination, please indicate this. A reviewer who specializes in certain areas of the FA criteria should indicate whether the support is applicable to all of the criteria. To oppose a nomination, write * '''Oppose''', followed by your reason(s). Each opposition must provide a specific rationale that can be addressed. If nothing can be done in principle to address the opposition, a coordinator may disregard it. References on style and grammar do not always agree; if a contributor cites support for a certain style in a standard reference work or other authoritative source, reviewers should consider accepting it. Reviewers who oppose are strongly encouraged to return after a few days to check whether their opposition has been addressed. To withdraw the opposition, strike it out (with <s> ... </s>) rather than removing it. Alternatively, reviewers may transfer lengthy, resolved commentary to the FAC archive talk page, leaving a link in a note on the FAC archive. To provide constructive input on a nomination without specifically supporting or opposing, write *'''Comment''' followed by your advice. For ease of editing, a reviewer who enters lengthy commentary may create a neutral fourth-level subsection, named either ==== Review by EditorX ==== or ==== Comments by EditorX ==== (do not use third-level or higher section headers). Please do not create subsections for short statements of support or opposition—for these a simple * '''Support''',*'''Oppose''', or *'''Comment''' followed by your statement of opinion, is sufficient. Please do not use a semicolon to bold a subheading; this creates accessibility problems. Specifically, a semi-colon creates an HTML description list with a description term list item. As a result, assistive technology is unable to identify the text in question as a heading and thus provide navigation to it, and screen readers will make extra list start/item/end announcements. If a nominator feels that an Oppose has been addressed, they should say so, either after the reviewer's signature, or by interspersing their responses in the list provided by the reviewer. Per talk page guidelines, nominators should not cap, alter, strike, or add graphics to comments from other editors. If a nominator finds that an opposing reviewer is not returning to the nomination page to revisit improvements, this should be noted on the nomination page, with a diff to the reviewer's talk page showing the request to reconsider.

FACs needing feedback view •
2010 Yazoo City tornado	Review it now
Hongxi Emperor	Review it now
Christopher Morcom	Review it now
Poecilia velifera	Review it now

Articles seeking peer review
before featured article candidacy

• July 26 Arbel Yehoud
• July 28 SS D. M. Clemson (1903)
• August 15 Jenna Ortega
• August 18 Rosa (sea otter)
• August 21 Make It Shine
• August 23 Tomorrow's Pioneers
• August 25 FC Dynamo Moscow's 1945 tour of the United Kingdom
• August 28 Truth
• August 31 "Believe" (Staind song)
• September 1 2026 EFL Championship play-off final
• September 4 Jetpac Refuelled
• September 6 Aperture Tag
• September 6 Digital Dance Mix Vol. 1 Namie Amuro
• September 12 Misneach
• September 13 Transparency of experience
• September 13 The Giant Spider Invasion
• September 14 Quingnam language
• September 17 Pusher Love Girl
• September 22 History of UK science fiction and fantasy magazines to 1965
• September 23 Hurricane Beryl
• September 24 Firewatch
• September 26 Miles Davis
• September 29 Ben Roberts-Smith
• September 29 Climate change in Turkey
• September 30 Justina Szilágyi
• October 3 Mi Reflejo
• October 3 Neanderthal

Nominations

Andranik

Nominator(s): frankie they/them (t • c) 18:56, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

This article is about General Andranik Ozanian, also known as Zoravar Andranik (or literally just Andranik), a legendary Armenian military commander, statesman, and national hero of the Armenian people. frankie they/them (t • c) 18:56, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Ben Roberts-Smith

Nominator(s): TarnishedPath^talk 11:55, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

This article is about Ben Roberts-Smith, holder of a Victoria Cross for Australia, who has been described as the most decorated living Australian soldier. I nominated this article as a FAC previously; however, it timed out. See Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ben Roberts-Smith/archive1. I'm renominating again as it seemed like I was so close to it passing last time and the two week period has passed. TarnishedPath^talk 11:55, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

History of UK science fiction and fantasy magazines to 1965

Nominator(s): Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:35, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

A while ago I brought History of U.S. science fiction and fantasy magazines to 1950 to FAC, and I've been meaning to follow up with the UK equivalent ever since. Most of the important developments in science fiction took place in the US, but there are some interesting stories on the UK side of the Atlantic, including a period which saw the publication of "the worst science fiction ever written", according to more than one historian, and the story of the first Scottish science fiction magazine. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:35, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Image is appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:32, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• Great to have you back at FAC, @Mike Christie: Comments to follow. MSincccc (talk) 07:08, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

  I've made around a dozen revisions to the article. I will be leaving prose comments shortly. It was a fine first read. Best, MSincccc (talk) 14:53, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Early and pre-war magazines

• How do we decide between using "sf" and "science fiction" in a sentence?
• I added a British English template earlier today. Now that I see spellings like "specialized" I think I might be mistaken. Could you please change it to the relevant language template?
• Stories from the US magazines were occasionally reprinted in Britain, in magazines such as
  • How about "publications" in the second instance to avoid repeating "magazines", or other alternatives?

A few suggestions to start off with. MSincccc (talk) 19:16, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Demolition Lovers

Nominator(s): λ NegativeMP1 04:23, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

When My Chemical Romance released their first album in 2002, it was - to many at least - a mixed bag. The production was a little rough, the whole album was only done in a week, some songs kinda fell flat... but there was always one exception: the album's closing ballad, "Demolition Lovers", which stars two doomed criminal lovers that die in a shootout. By far the record's most elaborate song, and it would later have its story continued in their second album. When you take a look at the band's aspiration for storytelling through music, and then look back at this song, you can make an argument this is one of the most integral songs to the band's identity.

Quick history of the article: I actually made it back in early 2025 when I was working on the main Bullets article. I was working on the Songs part of that article when I realized Demolition Lovers had more to say about it than a lot of other songs from the album. And so, I made the page. I nominated it for GA not long after, which was reviewed by @Medxvo:, helping complete the album's good topic. Having worked on it even more since then, including a brief peer review (which only @Nub098765: responded to) and exhausting everything that I can find about the song, I feel that I have created a comprehensive article on the subject. Should this FAC be successful, it will be the second My Chemical Romance FAC after "The Foundations of Decay" was promoted earlier this year. I look forward to addressing any comments. λ NegativeMP1 04:23, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Medxvo

Placeholder; will take a look soon. Medxvo (talk) 05:30, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• The October 11, 2022, performance at the Kia Forum (as part of the Reunion Tour) and the July 10, 2026, performance at Wembley Stadium (as part of the Long Live tour) could be added (supported by 1 and 2). The song was performed at only four shows between 2022 and 2026, so specifying all four would help clarify that it was not a regular part of the set list and was instead performed on select occasions
• "prior to 2004" seems factually off, as the first nine performances included shows in 2004 rather than only before it. "during their early live shows through 2004" would be more accurate and is also supported by NME
• "punk rock ballad" in the lead has a MOS:SEAOFBLUE issue. I think you could either remove the "ballad" wikilink or write it as something like "ballad that incorporates punk rock".
• Bridge (music) and chorus (song) would be useful wikilinks in the lead and prose; likewise for Geoff Rickly, movement (music), and tempo change in the prose
• There are three mentions of "the band" in the lead's third paragraph; one or two could be replaced with the band's full name to avoid repetition. Same with "considered" in the same paragraph; the second instance could be replaced with "regarded it as one ..."
• "Lyrically, it tells" - A bit nitpicky, but I suggest "Lyrically, the song tells" since the preceding sentence discusses the song's second half rather than "Demolition Lovers" as a whole
• "later brought it back during their Reunion Tour" - This initially made me think the song was part of the tour's set list, which apparently was not the case. I suggest something like "later performed it during a show at their Reunion Tour"
• Studio naming should be standardized; the infobox gives "Nada Studios", while the prose says "Nada Record Studios". I think it should be "Nada Recording" in the infobox, per Template:Infobox song#studio, and "Nada Recording Studios" in the prose
• "that the album, and its title, were centered" - I believe the commas are unnecessary here
• "was going to be called" and "went with ... instead" seem conversational. I suggest something along the lines of "was originally planned to be titled" and "ultimately chose"
• "labeled the song was similar" - grammatical error?
• "July 23, 2002[8] through" - "July 23, 2002,[8] through" per MOS:DATECOMMA
• "labeled it as a 'slow moody intro'" – the "moody" description applies to the intro rather than the song as a whole, so I suggest "labeled the intro as 'moody'" (as I'm not seeing "slow" in the source)
• "described it as a 'slow, eerie guitar riff'" – perhaps "described it as featuring a 'slow, eerie guitar riff'"?
• The Sputnikmusic ref has an archive.today URL, which should be replaced per WP:ATODAY

I think that's all from me! Medxvo (talk) 12:48, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

@Medxvo: Thank you! I've implemented all of the above suggestions (well, I'm still working on getting a new archive link for Sputnikmusic, but other than that). λ NegativeMP1 17:06, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Support. Medxvo (talk) 17:26, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Not-cheesewhisk3rs

Will review. I'll try to do the whole article as it's not too long. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 17:54, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Lead

• "and was written by four of the band members" suggest "four of the [number of band members] band members", just in case people don't know how many band members there are (like me)
  • I'm not sure if the reader needs to know just to understand how many members there are. Four of them wrote the song. Also I feel like this could make the reader question "why did that one other member not contribute"?
    • Your call.
• "It starts off slow" suggest "The song starts off slow" - I just think this reads better
  • While I am trying to avoid repeating "the song" per WP:THESONG, I think that this is probably okay so I've added it.
    • Alternatively, you could use the song's name.
• "The song's story was continued with the band's next album" - I think "with"" implies that the whole album continued the song's story, is that the case? If not, "in" would be better
  • Done

Background etc.

• I think it would be useful to specify where Prudential Center, Kia Forum, Wembley Stadium, Citi Field are
  • Done.

Music

• Why link Rolling Stone but not Paste? Suggest linking Paste
  • Same with Alternative Press
    • Done.
• "follows the titular characters as" suggest "follows two lovers as" because WP:TITULAR etc. (only an essay, but still worth considering)
  • Done.
• "ending in his suicide" but isn't he dead already?
  • Copyedited this paragraph a lot to try and clear up the narrative. Basically, the male lover signs a deal with the devil to reunite with the female lover, and returns to Earth (hence the source's explanation of him ending up in jail and his shooting in New Orleans). This should clarify his suicide despite seemingly being "dead".

Critical reception

• "transport listeners into a world" suggest "transport listeners into another world" because the listeners are already in a world
  • Done.
• "trifecta" is not a common word, could replace it or link to wiktionary
  • Replaced with "trilogy".

Credits etc.

• "Credits are taken from I Brought You My Bullets, You Brought Me Your Love CD booklet." grammar? shouldn't there be a "the"?
  • No, you're right.

That's all from me. Ping me when you're done. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 18:30, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• @Not-cheesewhisk3rs: Thank you for reviewing! I've responded to the above comments. λ NegativeMP1 18:47, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Support for prose & grammar, minor quibbles have been fixed. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 18:59, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Source spot-check - pass

Soon. RedShellMomentum 18:17, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

This table lists 3 random passages from throughout the article (5.1% of 59 total passages). These passages contain 5 inline citations (6.5% of 77 in the article). Reference numbers refer to this revision. Generated with the Veracity user script. RedShellMomentum 19:25, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

@NegativeMP1: Source spot-check is all good. I currently have a peer review for "Pusher Love Girl" up; you may leave comments there if you wish. RedShellMomentum 20:05, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Reference #	Letter	Source	Archive	Status	Notes
"Demolition Lovers" is its eleventh and final song.
12		altpress.com	web.archive.org	✅
The story of "Demolition Lovers" is continued in the band's next album, Three Cheers for Sweet Revenge (2004).
26	d	americansongwriter.com	web.archive.org	✅
27	a	loudwire.com	web.archive.org	✅
28		mtv.com	web.archive.org	✅
Multiple music critics praised the song's composition. Lord said that it combined two different sounds throughout its run-time to create a "clinic on proper intensity-building", and that while it may be confusing when listening to the two parts separately, the full song "makes sense".
25	c	ign.com	web.archive.org	✅

Dylan620

I put up a song FAC of my own earlier this week, and I quite enjoy the material I've heard from MCR, so I think it only makes sense for me to review this. I'll have something more substantial in the next few days. Dylan620 (he/they/she • talk • edits) 20:33, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Toby Fox

Nominator(s): Travis Mulch (talk), TheSilksongPikmin (talk), 17:21, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

This article's about the reclusive indie developer and composer behind Undertale and Deltarune, video games that have been the subject of extensive fandom, discourse, and controversy online. Toby's also known for his composing work on Homestuck, Pokémon, and various indie games, as well as his ties and collaborations with musicians and developers in Japan.

Following 1timeuse75's successful GAN in January, I've significantly expanded and rewritten the article over the past month. Co-nominator TheSilksongPikmin was a massive help with new content, sourcing, and solving the foam shower infobox problem. Special thanks to 1timeuse75, Monathephantom, UpTheOctave!, and Pokelego999, who helped in both mainspace and drafting. If passed, this'll be Wikipedia's third "Video game biography" FA after Satoru Iwata and Roberta Williams. Travis Mulch (talk) 17:21, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Not-cheesewhisk3rs

Looking forward to reviewing this! --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 20:53, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

@Not-cheesewhisk3rs Could you potentially unbold the section titles to prevent them from taking up too much space in the FAC list? Travis Mulch (talk) 18:23, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

These are level 5 headers, so I'm not sure I can, sorry. If it's a problem, you can collapse the addressed comments again, as long as no one else has anything to reply with. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 18:33, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

I'm not sure if they need to be headers to begin with. I can keep the text bolded but remove the header syntax, if that's fine with you? Travis Mulch (talk) 18:39, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Lead

• "Inspired by Starmen.net, an EarthBound fan site" - suggest not linking fan site, there are already a lot of links around that paragraph (- Done: TM)
• "Largely a self-taught musician," - suggest removing link to autodidactism: not about music and already many links (- Done: TM)
• "under the username Radiation" - suggest not bolding this name (or even removing it from lead & infobox entirely), as MOS:BOLDALTNAMES suggests only bolding "significant alternative names" (italics in original) (- Half done: TM; only removed "names", but did not unbold Radiation, Fox was known exclusively as "Radiation" or Toby "Radiation" Fox for years)
  • The other name "FwugRadiation" in infobox appears to not be cited in the body - unless I missed it, cite it or remove it (- Done: TM)

Early life

• "was born on October 11, 1991,[‡ 1][3]" - allowed per WP:CALC, but are there any better sources that give his birth date? (- Not done: TM; Unfortunately, no)
• File:Toby Fox playing piano.gif is not a very high quality picture. For one, Fox's head is cut off, and secondly the colours make him even less discernible. (- Ask uploader 1timeuse75: TM)
• I don't see the need to quote in 'for "Christmas or his birthday"', especially as you are not specifying who said that (and the pronoun usage makes it clear this mustn't be Fox himself) (- Half done: TM; specifying it was Fox who said so)
• Also unlink birthday and suggest unlinking Christmas (your choice) (- Done: TM)
• Suggest unlinking church services, elementary school, maybe even stage layouts (- Half done: TM; Only unlinked "elementary school" due to distinct uncommon terms)
• "which ultimately worked" - implies there was a journey to the process, which eventually leads to a result. was that the case, or did it work first try? if the latter, suggest removing "ultimately" (- Done: TM)
• "having previously taken lessons in second grade" - unlink lessons (- Done: TM)
• "he also played the trumpet through high school" - suggest unlink trumpet and high school (- Done: TM)
• "Fox recalled to Touhou Project creator ZUN" - "recalled" is a bit awkward here, isn't recalling something done in the mind? or so i thought... (- Half done: TM; rephrased & replaced with "told")
• "Fox is a graduate of Northeastern University, and studied environmental science." suggest "Fox is a graduate of Northeastern University, where he studied environmental science." (- Not done: TM; The major is literally the most contentious detail somehow due to sourcing, has to stay as-is)

Will continue from next section tomorrow. I'll try to review the whole thing, but depending on availability may not be able to. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 21:50, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Responded to everything here. o7 Travis Mulch (talk) 01:33, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

What about replacing the gif with the png version? 1timeuse75 (talk) 11:37, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

If there's no objections to having a .gif itself, an uncropped .gif would probably be best. Wait until someone does an image review. Travis Mulch (talk) 13:21, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

It turns out my browser loaded the gif as a still image - having realised that, I retract my comment about the gif, because it's fine. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 16:31, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

It could still be uncropped if needed. Travis Mulch (talk) 16:37, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Looking at the video, I think only the bottom was cropped out, the original shot has the top of his head also not visible. Though, it is of course entirely possible to find another segment of the video to turn into a gif. I feel like this one works perfectly fine though. TheSilksongPikmin (talk | contribs) 16:42, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Should be acceptable then. Travis Mulch (talk) 18:23, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Continuing. Career

• "Fox additionally began" suggest "Fox also began" (- Done: TSP)
• "The Undertale soundtrack has additionally been named" suggest "Additionally, the Undertale soundtrack has been named" or "The Undertale soundtrack has also been named" or "The Undertale soundtrack has been named" (- Done: TSP)
• unlink opinion poll (- Done: TSP)
• "The rapid rise of the Undertale fandom's popularity and [...]" suggest "The rapid rise of the Undertale fandom and [...]" as a fandom isn't what would typically be called "popular", so it's a little confusing (- Done: TSP)
• "over seven years later following" suggest "over seven years later because of" for flow - but only if the source makes the causality clear (I haven't checked) (- Half done: TM; Rephrased to "due to" because development hell itself was the reason)
• "Series creator Masahiro Sakurai noted Sans' popularity" potential MOS:SAID (- Half done: TM; Series creator talking about his own franchise, replaced with "highlighted")

Other projects

• "In December 2016, it was announced Fox would be a writer for" - who announced? I assume the announcement didn't announce itself (- Done: TM)
  • "it was announced in January 2025 that Fox would compose brand new tracks" - ditto, could be reworded to avoid "it was announced" (- Done: TM)
• "The Pollyanna Mother tribute comic," - is this 1 title or 2 concatenated titles? could be made clearer which it is (- Done: TM)
• "between the team of Undertale fan game Undertale Yellow" MOS:SEAOFBLUE (- Done: TSP)
• "Following [...] in January 2024" have you considered combining these mentions of time / relative time ? (- Not done: TM; Dispute happened in December 2023, donation happened in January 2024)
• "held a two-day livestream in support of Doctors Without Borders on" the article is titled Médecins Sans Frontières and that is indeed the charity's real name - suggest including both the original and the translation (- Done: TSP)

Influences

• "Several of the other games which influenced Undertale's creation included" consider rewording to "Several other games which influenced Fox include" or "Several of the games which influenced Undertale's creation included" - as the previous sentence is not about Undertale but Fox's influences specifically (- Done: TSP)
• "has also named composers" suggest "has also named the composers" (- Done: TSP)
• "His approach to humor and writing jokes in his games is based simply on whether or not he finds something funny or laughs at it." suggest removing "or laughs at it" as this doesn't add much (- Done: TSP)

Personal life

• "In 2023, he requested that a photo of himself entirely covered in foam (right) be used as his Wikipedia article's image.[‡ 5]" [and the corresponding photo] IMO this isn't an appropriate mention of wikipedia, feels slightly WP:NAVEL, and doesn't pass the threshold of WP:PRIMARY#3 and #7. Suggest removing that image - the other one is fine, though. (- Not done (sorry): TM; See below comment)
• "As of 2018, Fox resided in Boston, Massachusetts." suggest "As of 2018, Fox lives in Boston, Massachusetts." (- Done: MTP)
• "Fox has worn a mask to protect his privacy" unlink mask (- Done: MTP)

Notable works

I won't review this section.

I hope these comments are useful - please ping me once you've addressed them. IMO the most iffy section is early life, though I suppose nothing much can be done if the sourcing is scarce. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 13:41, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

I completed the changes made to the last two in the personal life section! Monathephantom (talk) 13:56, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Went through and did some of these changes, thank you for the review! TheSilksongPikmin (talk | contribs) 14:01, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

There was consensus among other editors I talked with that the foam shower image has value in context (Reduced to Personal life, placed next to several lines about hiding his face, having himself literally hiding his face, with the Wikipedia claim not in the main text) though there were lingering WP:SUBJECT concerns. I disagree that it's enough to cause issues. There's the fact, of course, that no article on Wikipedia features an image of a man entirely covered in bath foam. But usually, BLP photos on Wikipedia are chosen arbitrarily based on what's available, only sometimes being because secondary sources talk about the depicted events.

Considering there's a good few things in the article which might make you think "what the hell?" because Toby's a weird internet guy, this shouldn't seem too unusual here. It should also be noted that this is one of two VRT-approved images we have (the 2012-dated YouTube video is CC) and the other options we have to get more images suck due to recording quality. I feel like complaints about the image are circular, because just captioning it "Toby Fox covered in foam in 2023" would itself be questionable, requiring context, but that context is navel-gazing, despite its relevance. So it's either keep or delete on the basis that both options have loopholes against each other. If there's a wider consensus in the nomination to remove the image, it'll be done. Travis Mulch (talk) 15:21, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

I understand how insane this defense sounds. Travis Mulch (talk) 15:41, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

I prefer the current caption, but, if repeatedly challenged due to the self-mention, something like "Fox often hides his face, using the Annoying Dog (face left) as a self-insert. In 2023, he released a photo of himself entirely covered in foam (right)." could work. TheSilksongPikmin (talk | contribs) 15:55, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

...I mean, yeah, he released it, but why? I feel like the why (for Wikipedia) is both necessary and seen as a violation. Probably best rephrased in some other way. Travis Mulch (talk) 15:59, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Maybe a rewrite could focus on the fact that his face is covered, instead of detailing the event of the image's release. Something like "Fox in 2023 entirely covered in foam (left); he often hides his face, using the Annoying Dog (face right) as a self-insert." TheSilksongPikmin (talk | contribs) 16:22, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Another reason I believe the image should be removed entirely. According to the quotation from the ref the mention of Wikipedia is a single line passing mention amongst the foam images, as well as being primary. If the picture must be kept then Wikipedia need not be mentioned. Also, the image could be of anyone covered in foam, so I don't think it's useful. However, this is getting rather offtopic, so I apologise for derailing. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 16:31, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

I hate to drag out the foam shower discussion further, but Fangamer did explicitly confirm it's him. Travis Mulch (talk) 16:43, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Sorry, I wasn't very clear: even though it is him, it could represent anyone, so it doesn't do a good job of representing him specifically. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 17:13, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

I understand this viewpoint. Travis Mulch (talk) 18:08, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

@Not-cheesewhisk3rs Everything has been addressed. Travis Mulch (talk) 15:47, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Some final comments from me. The article prose is pretty good overall, and I haven't checked sources or finer MOS issues. However, there is a point where the article suffers from hard-to-follow prose, and generally I wouldn't consider it exemplary of a WP:FACR#1a pass. This is the "Other projects" section, which at times feels more like name-dropping Fox's professional relations than an encyclopedia article. I appreciate that the sourcing may not exist to improve this section, but there are definitely parts worth looking at to see if they can be improved. It would be useful to provide more information about each collaboration/project so that the reader does not feel like they are reading a list of names. These are just suggestions, but it's what I would do if the sources exist. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 16:31, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

I think fixing the phrasing depends mostly on what exactly you believe needs fixes, because there tends to be multiple existing sources per collaboration. Feel free to post any additional comments and we'll see what can be done. Travis Mulch (talk) 16:34, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Sure! I'll go over it again and see what specific stuff is too list-y. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 16:45, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Unsorted comments

• Hatnote says "others with the name", I think "other people" is more succinct

Other projects #2

• First paragraph is fine, but the next few are hard to read

The greatest issue here is this sort of unorderly idea-jumping. There are several different things you could do here. One is to organise into subsections by project; homestuck is mentioned in the 1st paragraph so the random mentions of HS in paragraphs 2 and 5 would flow better if they were grouped together. Similarly, his composition work on Pokémon games (Sword and Shield, Scarlet and Violet) and his collaborations with various Japanese game developers could be grouped together. And so on, all in all to improve the section's flow. I admit there are caveats to this option: 1) the full chronological order is broken apart, and even though subsections can be ordered chronologically, the projects are not presented in order relative to each other 2) there may not be a good subsection fit for every project 3) it is very similar to #Career above, which could raise the argument that both sections need to be merged

Another possibility is that you expand the content beyond just mentions of the stuff he's worked on. For example: "The visual novel Rose of Winter, which was released in September 2016, features tracks composed by Fox." what's Rose of Winter? why is it relevant? The source specifies what Rose of Winter is, but the reader is left not knowing. You could help the reader out by explaining what that means. Some other examples (haven't checked the sources for these):

• "Fox continued collaborating with other musicians, including "Myths You Forgot" and "Summerblue" with Camellia for beatmania IIDX 30 Resident" which is?
• "ZUN and Fox's first musical collaboration on the rhythm game Touhou Danmaku Kagura: Phantasia Lost, "U.N. Owen Was Hero?", which combined Touhou's "U.N. Owen Was Her?" and Undertale's "Battle Against a True Hero", was announced in January 2024." what's U.N. Owen Was Her? ?
• "affiliated with Hololive" which is?

I am having more trouble finding examples now that I've read the section several times, but you get the point. The disadvantage of this option is size, although at a comfy 4,000 words you should be able to squeeze more in provided the sources have enough juice. The other disadvantage is the possibility for trivial details to get caught up in the biography, but I think that would have already happened if it were likely to happen, so I wouldn't worry too much about this.

The third option is choosing not to do my suggestion, it's your choice. Personally, I would go with option 1 and try to organise the section, but I'm not the one writing this article. I hope this is helpful. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 17:43, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Changed the hatnote, thanks. Will wait on Travis Mulch's take on the other projects suggestion before changing anything. TheSilksongPikmin (talk | contribs) 17:49, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

So me and UpTheOctave! already discussed this idea, about sorting by subject instead of chronologically, and I didn't agree at the time. I'm not sure if I do, still. The problem is we're pulling from completely different spaces at all times (a webcomic -> a magazine -> a video game based on that webcomic -> a Japanese musician -> a wrestler -> several indie games -> a popular series -> a comic -> a music video) just in paragraphs 2-3 alone.

There isn't a feasible way to do this by subject in a way which isn't a problem chronologically, just in my opinion. If someone had/showed me a way to fix it otherwise, I might believe it. But this is just based on my account of writing the section, so I'm open to other opinions. Travis Mulch (talk) 17:56, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

(In that discussion you dismissed the idea without providing an explanation, so I don't have anything to comment on from there.) I don't understand your explanation here: "The problem is we're pulling from completely different spaces at all times" but is that even a problem per WP:COMBINE? It seems to me more like a case of (sorry) poor organisation (sorry again).

I believe it would be possible to arrange the other projects into chronologically ordered subsections with dates to allow readers to understand when these things stand relative to each other. I think that this would be easier than rewriting to include more context. I also think that the greatest disadvantage of my suggestion is what happens to things that don't neatly fit into subsections, although you might be able to condense some of the less-detailed music compositions into a "other compositions" section which would have the same issues as the current "other projects" section but on a much smaller scale. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 19:24, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

See Hideo Kojima. In the Independent studio (2015–present) section, it uses level 4/5 headers to distinguish his recent games & Death Stranding's adaptations. Something like this, if properly done & organized, to distinguish between - maybe - video game & non-video game projects, is something I'd accept. Toby's article currently doesn't make use of level 4 headers to prevent spinning off, but if this is a necessary change in your eyes, I'm open to it. @TheSilksongPikmin Try to see if this could work. Travis Mulch (talk) 19:34, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

I'll try to draft up something in my sandbox. TheSilksongPikmin (talk | contribs) 19:38, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

It's not a necessary change (not doing this is still an option), but you should consider it since two reviewers have suggested a similar change on two different occasions. Also, I think you could do it with level 3 headers, since it would be in subsections of #Other works, which is level 2. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 20:07, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

@Travis Mulch Here's something. Four sections (Homestuck, Video games, Other media, Philanthropy) TheSilksongPikmin (talk | contribs) 20:09, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

@Not-cheesewhisk3rs Do you think something like this would work better?

Splits up by topic (even in-section, like Game Freak stuff together), but is also in chronological order when possible. TheSilksongPikmin (talk | contribs) 20:18, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

It's much more readable. The order makes sense, splitting by topic makes this quite balanced. I haven't done a detailed read-through but I can if/when you decided to implement that. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 20:25, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

@TheSilksongPikmin Make "Video games" two paragraphs, and make sure you rearrange the citations so their ref tags don't show up before the citations themselves.

I propose putting "Philanthropy" under "Personal life" due to these changes; @Not-cheesewhisk3rs, do you think that'd work? Travis Mulch (talk) 22:15, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

I think it's fine, but that's ultimately your decision. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 06:12, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

I just want to prevent the section becoming overly cluttered, since then we'd have four sub-sections under Other projects. @TheSilksongPikmin, I'll be implementing those fixes. Travis Mulch (talk) 06:17, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Thank you, glad I was able to assist.

Sorry for not responding initially, wasn't online. TheSilksongPikmin (talk | contribs) 06:28, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

@Not-cheesewhisk3rs Let me know what you think. Travis Mulch (talk) 06:32, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

I will - I'll review the section again later today. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 06:38, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Gonna sleep, just note the live article has further fixes. Feel free to make a new section if needed so this one comment chain doesn't get overly long. Travis Mulch (talk) 07:54, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Other works #3

• "stating "At the" I am not sure if it is a good idea to keep the "A" capitalised (- Done: TM)
• "an MSPA Forums rule" suggest linking microsoft paint adventures, consider italicising MSPA, and would benefit from a short description of what MSPA is per the spirit of MOS:NOFORCELINK (- Done: TM)
• "a Homestuck video game" doesn't really mean much. is it a video game based on homestuck, inspired by homestuck, set in the same universe as homestuck, or something else? (- Done: TM)
• "second and third acts in 2020 and 2026, respectively," IMO it is obvious that the second act was in 2020 and the third in 2026, so you could remove "respectively", but it's your choice (- Done: TM)
• "Fox collaborated with Camellia" suggest "Fox collaborated with Japanese musician Camellia" - so that the reader knows who he is, noforcelink etc. (- Done: TM)
• "ZUN and Fox's first musical collaboration on the rhythm game Touhou Danmaku Kagura: Phantasia Lost, "U.N. Owen Was Hero?"," Just checking - is the implied meaning right here? From my interpretation it seems to suggest that song wasn't the first collaboration by Fox and ZUN, just the first collaboration for a specific game in particular. (- Done: TM)
• "from series creator Shigesato Itoi" suggest "from the series' creator Shigesato Itoi" (- Done: TM)

That should be it. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 15:07, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

@Not-cheesewhisk3rs Everything's been addressed. Travis Mulch (talk) 16:09, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

My only remaining quibble is with the primary source captioning the foam picture, but I think that is not a matter for FAC to resolve. Therefore support for prose, grammar and structure. Good luck with the rest of your nomination. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 16:18, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for your review! I'm sure it won't be the last time the foam bubbles up... Travis Mulch (talk) 16:31, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

If the foam image or its caption comes up again, you should seriously consider opening a discussion on the talk page to see if there is consensus for inclusion. (To reiterate, I don't think the image is of encyclopedic value, but the greatest issue is that it's attracting undue attention towards Wikipedia.) --user:not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 07:36, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Vacant0

I'll take a look at this. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 11:23, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Byzantium in the Crusading movement

Nominator(s): Borsoka (talk) 12:06, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

The Byzantines played several important roles in the Crusading movement. A Byzantine request for military assistance prompted the First Crusade; later, large crusading armies passed through Byzantine territory, while the Byzantine Empire and its successor states themselves became targets of crusading campaigns. Eventually, crusades were also proclaimed to defend Byzantine territories. The article aims to give a concise overview of the Byzantines' role in the Crusading movement and of how relations between Byzantium and Catholic Europe affected both sides. Any comments or suggestions for improving the article would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much for your time and consideration. Borsoka (talk) 12:06, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• I won't be able to do a full review, but I've made a few revisions.

Could you please add the relevant language template to the mainspace ("Use... English")?

Good luck with the nomination. MSincccc (talk) 17:49, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

• Thank you for your note and revisions. I believe the text is written in British English using Oxford spelling, so I have added the corresponding template. Borsoka (talk) 02:07, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Comments by Llewee

• I will have a go at reviewing this article. I might be a bit out of my depth so feel free to ignore any dumb suggestions.

Background

• "The Byzantine Empire was, as the historian Peter Lock observes, "in every sense the heir and embodiment of the Roman Empire"" - This feels a bit non-neutral. Weren't their other states that claimed to be Rome's successor? It's not really for us to judicate on how many particles of Romanness you need in order to be "in every sense" its "heir and embodiment".

  I appreciate the concern about neutrality, though I am not entirely persuaded that the sentence is problematic in this respect. It does, of course, reflect a scholarly point of view, but the underlying claim rests on the substantial institutional, political and ideological continuity between the Later Roman Empire and what is conventionally termed the Byzantine Empire. The sentence neither excludes nor diminishes other claims to Roman heritage. Indeed, the text later acknowledges that Western rulers likewise claimed the Roman legacy and that they regarded the Byzantine emperors as "emperors of the Greeks". In that context, I regard the sentence as a neutral summary of a well-established historical interpretation rather than as an endorsement of one claimant over another.

• "associated their empire with the Oikoumene, or the civilised world" - Could this be made clearer?

  Explained.

• "The emperors were widely regarded as God's representatives on earth." - Be more specific here (e.g. "emperors were regarded by the Byzantine people").

  The view of the emperor as God’s earthly representative was by no means confined to the Byzantines themselves. For centuries, for example, the popes acknowledged the Byzantine emperors claim to confirm their election.

  Maybe say Christians then?--Llewee (talk) 10:41, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• "Among them, the bishops of Rome, styled popes, enjoyed honorary primacy but were expected to act as imperial officials." - This sentence feels rather confusing. Who are the bishops of Rome?

  I am sorry, but I am not sure I understand your concern.

  It's not clear who the Bishops of Rome are. Is there a link that could be added?--Llewee (talk) 10:41, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• "By the mid-ninth century, the Carolingian Empire had divided into smaller, decentralised states, including France and Germany.[16] A renewed imperial project emerged under the German king Otto I, crowned emperor in 962, but the Holy Roman Empire remained politically fractured.[17]" - Clarify that "Germany" is the same entity as the Holy Roman Empire.

  No, Germany and the Holy Roman Empire are not the same entity. I have, however, explained the term in the text.

  What entity are you referring to as "Germany" in the first sentence if not the Holy Roman Empire? It might be helpful to link the contemporary versions of both Germany and France.--Llewee (talk) 10:41, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• "As the medievalist John France notes, this Western elite "generated numerous young sword for hire", - I feel like this quote is too metaphorical to be especially illuminating for the reader.--Llewee (talk) 18:10, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

  Rephrased.

Thank you very much for beginning such a comprehensive and thorough review. I hope that my responses above have addressed the concerns raised so far. Borsoka (talk) 02:56, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

ThaesOfereode

I keep coming back to this so I'll do a full prose review here, especially given the rather lean GAN. Bear with me as I dig into this. ThaesOfereode (talk) 14:55, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Background

• Bit of a minor note, but why is this titled "Byzantium during the Crusading movement" instead of "Byzantine Empire during the Crusading movement"? I know the empire was called Byzantium, but it's also defined as the Greek city early on, which may be confusing for unfamiliar readers.
• Link Roman Empire?
• western halves – Link Western Roman Empire?
• Link Constantinople.
• civilised – If Oxford English as above, should be civilized, no?
• new [...] Jerusalem – Link Jerusalem in Christianity?
• styled popes → called popes? – Just for clarity's sake
• who were considered especially reliable – Why?
• using wealth [...] to manage rivals – Is this supposed to mean bribery? If so, kind of WP:EUPHy.
• Islamic Caliphate – WP:EGG? Is there a reason we don't just call it the Rashidun caliphate? It's not like there are non-Muslim caliphs, right?
• Islam arose under Muhammad – Weird to link God both for Islam and Christianity, but not link Muhammad or Islam.
• Is there a reason you don't link the Patriarchate of Rome?
• Muslim rulers classified Christians as dhimmis – Weird formatting. I would either bring the s into italics or use the Arabic plural ʾahl adh-dhimma. Alternatively, reword and just use the system name dhimma.
• legally subordinate – Link to Second-class citizen?
• including disputes over iconoclasm – Use the link to write "an iconoclasm" to avoid WP:EGG. I think "the" iconoclasm is more associated with Calvin's followers, but then again I have more background in Reformation-era history.
• Although iconoclasm ended → Although the iconoclasm ended – ?
• Link Abbasid Caliphate and Cyprus (island) (vel sim).
• Link holy war?
• Military success encouraged economic growth – Whose success? The Fatimids'? Against whom?
• Commercial contacts with Western Europe revived – Are these Byzantine contracts with the West?

Prelude to the First Crusade

• yet within fifty years → yet during the following fifty years
• Link Cold spell?
• Link Danube, Baghdad, and Anatolia.
• Byzantine territories in Italy – I'd make the link take up this whole phrase.
• Link Leavened bread.
• excommunications – Given that these were mutual excommunications, I would just link excommunication instead of specifically the Catholic form, right? The later excommunication by Gregory VII could take this Catholic link on.
• Link Just war.
• Venetian naval support – Link Venetian navy.
• the new pope, Urban II absolved Alexios – Either remove the comma after "pope" or add one after "II"; I recommend the former.

That's enough for right now. Best, ThaesOfereode (talk) 14:55, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Kho Ping Hoo

Nominator(s):  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:39, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about a writer who was so prolific people seem to have just stopped counting. Kho Ping Hoo was a writer active from 1957 until his death in 1994, and in that period he turned out well over a hundred martial arts stories. However, he is quite unknown in the English speaking world; Kho's novels were primarily read by the lower class, and Western scholars have focused more on the belles lettres. This article provides a detailed examination of Kho Ping Hoo and his oeuvre, drawing on a range of Indonesian and English-language sources.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:39, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• Lead image is missing alt text

• File:Borobudur-Nothwest-view.jpg needs a tag for the original work. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:15, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
  • Done both. Thank you! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:35, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Not Strong Enough

Nominator(s): Dylan620 (he/they/she • talk • edits) 18:58, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about, in my humble opinion, the very best song Boygenius and its members have ever done, solo or as a band. It's a four-minute slice of cathartic countrified jangly new wave goodness that hasn't lost its luster even after <checks last.fm> 395 listens. Don't just take my word for it: "Not Strong Enough" was one of the most critically acclaimed songs of 2023, spent multiple frames atop a Billboard genre airplay chart, and drew extensive analysis from music journalists. I did the bulk of the work on this article in 2024, intending to nominate it then; 'twas not to be, for a variety of reasons. I came back to it recently and went through it with a fine-tooth comb; I found a couple academic sources, I filled some small gaps in coverage, and I did some general copyediting.

I'd like to give my thanks to Aoba47 and Gen. Quon for their invaluable feedback two years ago during the peer review and when I sought FAC mentorship, as well as The Blue Rider for their thorough and helpful GA review shortly before then. I genuinely believe this article is the most comprehensive source of information you'll find on the internet for this song, and I eagerly look forward to hearing the community's feedback. I will endeavor to address any concerns as quickly as I can.

While I do have a featured article to my credit (Ghost in the Machine (song)), I was the secondary contributor to that article, with most of the work having been done by my co-nominator. This is my first FAC as the primary contributor. Dylan620 (he/they/she • talk • edits) 18:58, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Warriors (novel series)

Nominator(s): --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 16:38, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about a novel series in which feral cats survive in a forest. It was created by Vicky Holmes, despite her not liking the idea, and new books are still being written two decades later. I've been working on this article for a few months. The goal is for it to be Today's Featured Article on 21 January 2028, which is the 25th anniversary of Warriors. This is my first FAC, so I'm a bit nervous! If it fails, there's always time to re-nominate. Many thanks to Ajheindel for the GA review, Pamzeis for doing a peer review, and Blubewwy and Lilyblossom of WikiProject Warriors for copyediting. (Interestingly, there's a WikiProject for this series, which was quite active in the late 2000s!) --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 16:38, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Courtesy ping: Blubewwy ~ lily ^{my tree} ~ 03:46, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Also pinging @Pamzeis: and @Ajheindel:, and @Wikipedian12512:. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 17:21, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping; will leave comments shortly. Cheers, _{In solidarity} Wikipedian12512 (Talking is fine | contribs) 18:52, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• Suggest adding alt text

• Don't use fixed px size

• File:Warriors_full_boxed_Set.png needs a stronger FUR. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:53, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Expanded the free use rationale. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 13:48, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

I've done my best to add an alt text, and changed the image to remove the fixed px size. ~ lily ^{my tree} ~ 03:45, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments from User:Wikipedian12512

I’ll take on the synopses and maybe the lead. Cheers, _{In solidarity} Wikipedian12512 (Talking is fine | contribs) 18:55, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Warriors: The Prophecies Begin (2003–2004):

Did he rise by proving Tigerclaw was a murderer, or were they two discrete things? Cheers, _{In solidarity} Wikipedian12512 (Talking is fine | contribs) 19:01, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

A bit of both - he rose through a lot of things, which not worth specifying as IMO that would be excessive plot.

Does he become the Shadow leader on the spot, or does it take some wearing in? Cheers, _{In solidarity} Wikipedian12512 (Talking is fine | contribs) 19:01, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Immediately - their previous leader had died of sickness. Is it clear that this happened suddenly?

Perhaps “is made” as opposed to “becomes”? In the future, can you sign comments I could reasonably respond to? Cheers, _{In solidarity} Wikipedian12512 (Talking is fine | contribs) 22:54, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Done, and noted.

Are there stereotypes around the clans? Cheers, _{In solidarity} Wikipedian12512 (Talking is fine | contribs) 19:01, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

None worth mentioning, especially as they're disregarded in more recent books.

Does Scourge become the shadow leader, or does he/she just have an army or something? Cheers, _{In solidarity} Wikipedian12512 (Talking is fine | contribs) 19:01, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Scourge has some sort of gang (with an in-universe name probably not worth mentioning because it would cause confusion). I've clarified that ShadowClan also fights Scourge.

New Prophecy:

I have no comments with this, mostly because it has barely any plot. Could you possibly include some of the finer points of it? Cheers, _{In solidarity} Wikipedian12512 (Talking is fine | contribs) 22:59, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

I don't know. I calculated that each plot should have about 55 words, and TNP has 47. I doubt I can add more plot in 8 words given that what's there is the core of the plot. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 06:55, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Traveler (Genshin Impact)

Nominator(s): In solidarity, Gommeh ^{(talk 🎮 sign)} 17:25, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about the main protagonist of the video game Genshin Impact, developed by miHoYo. I created the article earlier this year and got it to GA as part of a WP:GARC in July. I submitted it to peer review for FAC in August and received some feedback. During that peer review, editors @TheBritinator, Oreun, and Vacant0 gave constructive feedback on the article that focused on source reliability and prose clarity, among other things. They raised additional concerns about the lack of some sources regarding the creation and design of the character, though I believe these are not necessary due to the Traveler being more of a "blank slate" character used as a vehicle for players to insert themselves into the story. I would not expect many secondary sources to offer character analysis for such a character. With regards to source reliability, all of the non-WP:PRIMARY sources in the article are either generally reliable, or they are being used to cite uncontroversial statements about the character (e.g. their birthday, for instance). One editor in the peer review questioned the use of The Nerd Stash, but I personally believe that isn't enough to warrant its removal (as it's not enough of a consensus) and I have had no other issues with this source at the GA level. As a courtesy, I am tagging the GA reviewer @Vestrian24Bio as well as @Pokelego999 and SuperGrey, both of whom have shown interest in the Genshin Impact topic and who may want to add their thoughts.

The Traveler is the main protagonist in the game, and in the story they wander the continent of Teyvat with their tour guide Paimon in search of their lost twin sibling. Along the way, they enter each of Teyvat's seven nations and solve problems afflicting them, making friends with Teyvat's people along the way. As some of you are no doubt aware, Genshin is one of my favorite video games and in all likelihood doesn't really need much of an introduction. I figured that the Traveler, as the main character, would make an ideal first character in that game to reach FAC (other than perhaps Paimon, who may have important information revealed about her in the next few updates, so I'm putting a potential FAC for her on hold for the moment). This would be my first WP:FOUR as well, as my only successful FAC was for an article I did not create myself. In solidarity, Gommeh ^{(talk 🎮 sign)} 17:25, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Looks like I forgot to tag a few more people who may want to comment here. First up on the list is @Jeffrey34555, who has shown interest in miHoYo character articles, especially the Genshin Impact character list. Also tagging Chinese Wikipedia editor @LimiEi, as I imagine she'd be interested in knowing this article is up for FAC here. She has been very helpful in writing and translating related articles between the Chinese and English Wikipedias. Finally tagging @Royal Sailor, another helpful Chinese Wikipedia editor. In solidarity, Gommeh ^{(talk 🎮 sign)} 19:48, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Maybe I try to review it at later? ˂̶͈́LimiΣi˃̶͈̀ 02:43, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Sure! In solidarity, Gommeh ^{(talk 🎮 sign)} 11:36, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Sorry I can't. I'm tired and can't review it at a short time. ˂̶͈́LimiΣi˃̶͈̀ 10:18, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Not-cheesewhisk3rs

Will review this. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 14:18, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

I have very little to say so I don't know if it would be appropriate to support, although overall I think the article is of high quality. Sorry.

• From reading the lead and background section, it seems a little awkward that the characters (plural) are called the Traveler (singular). I doubt this can be done differently, especially if this is what the sources use (haven't checked). If this is how it should be done, at least avoid saying "The two Travelers" when there's only one Traveler. Can be reworded as "Both characters", for example.

• "only Aether and Lumine themselves call each other by their real name" but isn't the Traveler a silent protagonist? according to the lead
  • Same with "including belittling Paimon's body size and abilities" in Reception

• "Unlike most characters in the game, the Traveler can use multiple elements." what does "use" mean here? conjure? manipulate? something else?

"The final scene in the trailer has a line in which the narrator asks if the Traveler would betray themselves for their sibling." is this relevant? does this happen? if yes, and if the source mentions it, what follows should be mentioned

• "However, the Traveler's degree of involvement in the main storylines of each nation has been criticized. Jessica said that the Traveler is drawn into the civil war in Inazuma but lacks an active motivation for participating in it, while in the Sumeru and Fontaine chapters they return to a role similar to that of a non-player character" I assume that Inazume and Sumeru and Fontaine are nations, although if this isn't the case you should consider rewording

--not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 16:35, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Most sources refer to the Traveler in the singular, even though Aether and Lumine are the same (for the most part) except for gender. I followed that as best as I could when editing. In cases where the differences between Aether and Lumine are discussed, or where they are specifically discussed together as siblings, I did make sure to change the wording accordingly. "The two Travelers" would, for example, imply that Aether and Lumine explore Teyvat together, which they do not.

The Traveler is largely a silent protagonist, which in this case means their dialogue in the quests is largely not voiced (for some reason). This is to the point where some fans actually take notice when the Traveler does have a speaking part that is actually voiced by a voice actor. There are dialogue options that the player can choose from in-game, mostly (in my opinion) to allow the player to feel like they are a part of the story. Some players, as the Traveler, choose to have them tease Paimon at various points in the story.

The word "use" likely means to manipulate, but I don't think it's significant enough to warrant much of a change.

As of writing this, there hasn't been anything in-game about the Traveler betraying themselves for their sibling. That line is at the very end of the trailer (it is the last line of dialogue), so nothing happens after it.

I can confirm that Inazuma, Sumeru and Fontaine are all nations (you can see them as well as the rest of Teyvat's nations at Locations of Genshin Impact). In solidarity, Gommeh ^{(talk 🎮 sign)} 20:25, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Alright. Even though I didn't have anything much to comment on, I still support this nomination because it's a very well-written article overall. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 18:02, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Micronesian myzomela

Nominator(s): msk 03:35, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Wait, no, it's a bird. I present to you, the Micronesian myzomela -- a bird with too many color morphs, and a bunch of subspecies, all with their own distinct habits. This is my second FAC, following curlew sandpiper, which had way too many MTAU issues. My writing has (in my opinion) improved quite a bit, largely due to that FAC; this article should be much more understandable to a layperson (excluding the Subspecies and Populations sections, which are purposely dense). Pinging the peer reviewers who did a full prose review: @GreenLipstickLesbian, Chipmunkdavis, and Jimfbleak. msk 03:35, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments from Jim

I was going to start reviewing Sweyn Forkbeard today, but I know more about birds than eleventh century rulers, so here I am. I’m busy IRL for a few days, so comments will appear as and when. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:37, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• I raise concerns at PR about excessive duplication of links, and although you said that was deliberate, I still don’t think it’s necessary to have so many, and it’s certainly not consistent. For example, in Subspecies you link Caroline Islands for the first, second and fourth items, but not the third or fifth.

  Caroline island overlinking fixed. msk 23:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Is the "red" necessary in scarlet-red? Just asking, I’m unsure if this is different from just"scarlet".

  Removed. msk 23:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Honeyeater" isn't mentioned in the Taxonomy section. Do we need a short sentence setting the context for this genus?

  Do we? I didn't need it for curlew sandpiper and I can't really figure out a place to put it in this article. msk 23:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• although his leg is shorter — i think you need a plural here, unless it's a one-legged species

  Males on Yap are monopods, did you not know? (Fixed.) msk 23:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Juveniles are much browner compared to adults — than adults

  Done. msk 23:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Its iris is dark brown, and its toes and tarsi are scaly and dark brown, with the undersides of the feet being dull yellow. — the intended subject of this appears several sentences earlier, I think you need a noun here.

  Do we? A bill, a tounge, nor the interior of the mouth would have an iris, and the previous sentences also refer to the bird. If it is needed, would The bird's iris is dark brown work? msk 23:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• little to no red patches.— doesn't read well. Depending exactly what you are trying to say, either few or no red patches. or red patches are small or absent.

  Fixed. msk 23:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• varying shades— I assume various is intended?

  Yep. msk 23:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• it inhabits every land habitat up to 589 m seems over-precise, perhaps about 600 m?

  Done. msk 23:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Second para of Breeding repeats and the like.

  Fixed. msk 23:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• These eggs are usually white and gray What eggs? Should be "The".

  Fixed. msk 23:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• however, unlike it, the Micronesian myzomela primarily foraged in Indian coral trees — although the Micronesian myzomela primarily foraged in Indian coral trees

  Fixed. msk 23:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Ernst Mayr reported in 1945 that there were four times as many males compared to females, however... — Ernst Mayr reported in 1945 that there were four times as many males observed than females You need to make it clear that this isn't a rreal biological fact, just a perceived imbalance

  Thanks, corrected. msk 23:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Perhaps in Conservation start the second sentence with In the local Micronesian languages this bird was known as...

  Added. I had to removed the "was known on Guam" part but that shouldn't make too big a difference.

• Here's a real nitpick. Your Kittlitz ref begins with a lower case "v", looks odd at the beginning of a ref. Should it be capitalised? Well, that looks odd too. Craig and Pyle's refs 22 and 23 begin 22. von Kittlitz, F.H. (1835) and 23. Kittlitz, F. H. von (1836) respectively. I much prefer the second version, which starts with his "real" surname and avoids having to decide how to capitalise the minor word.

  Done. msk 23:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Your references use a mixture of sentence case and title case for the article titles. I think title case is preferred, but you should at least be consistent.

I'm happy with most of the responses above, although I still think the overlinking is excessive, let's see what other reviewers think. You don't yet appear to have addressed the references formatting Jimfbleak - talk to me? 10:07, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

I've just found User:Epicgenius/capitalize! Jimfbleak - talk to me? 10:24, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

I didn't take (forgot) my medication today so I probably won't be able to concentrate enough to fix all the source titles today, I'll try to get around to it tomorrow. msk 17:32, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

I did not, in fact, get around to it tomorrow. I'll do this today. msk 19:05, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Jens

I wanted to comment at the Peer Review but obviously was a bit too late. So here we go:

• The taxonomy section starts with who named what species and when, but without explaining what that means. Why did the species got multiple names? I guess because the authors were unaware of the names that already existed? Should be made clear.

  I can't find any sources discussing the details, however I did add [the Micronesian myzomela] was later split back out in 1987 due to differences in appearance and voice. to taxonomy. msk 00:14, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• It was then renamed by Gustav Hartlaub, first in 1852 as M. rubrater,[7] then in 1854 as M. rubratra – I don't think "renamed" is an accurate term here. Apparently they recognized that the oldest name has priority and hence has to be used (there is no "renaming" since the name already existed). Then, I guess, it was amended to rubratra (is that the female form)? Anyways, these are just guesses, but the article really should explain those things.
• however it is now recognized as its own species – Since when it is its own species?

  Tweaked the part that says that, hopefully it's clearer. msk 22:52, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• regarding the etymology, note that the "Birds of the world" entry of the species provides that directly, just click on the "i" symbol next to the scientific name.

  Since those are sourced to Jobling I've swapped them all out for that.

• You provide cladograms but without discussing that in the text at all. The terminology is also quite complicated and not comprehensible for the general audience. And why do we need two cladograms, wouldn't one be enough for the intra-generic relationships? And wouldn't be a honeyeater cladogram useful, too, to show the relationships to other species, as we typically provide in bird FACs?

  See Aa77zz's comments on the first cladogram (now removed), and their notes on the second cladogram(s). Re: MTAU/cladograms: This is purposely dense, since I don't see non-technical readers wanting nor needing to grasp this section, thus it is just "there for the experts" who, being experts, already have the background knowledge for this. msk 22:52, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• Seven subspecies of the Micronesian myzomela are recognized – I would probably cite IOU here, since that's our go-to source on which we base decisions which taxa to accept and which not.

  AFAIK IOU WBL got merged into AviList so I'm citing that instead. msk 22:52, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• The Micronesian myzomela was first formally described by René Lesson in 1827 as Cinnyris rubrater. – Based on what specimen, from where? Did he observe them himself or did he examine a skin sent to him from overseas? Anything about the holotype?
• In the geographic variation section, you do not say how the differences relate to the subspecies?
• How is the species distinguished from similar species?
• With few exceptions, all honeyeaters are monogamous – somehow contradictory. Remove "all"?
• On Chuuk, eggs are on average 18.5 by 13.6 mm. They are glossy, white or light cream with reddish-brown speckling concentrated torwards the larger end.[46] On Pohnpei, eggs are white to pale creamy, with brown (sometimes with hues of yellow or red) spots on the surfaces – I don't really understand how the Pohnpei eggs differ from the Chuuk eggs; the description seems to be identical, just the wording differs slightly. Are these indeed differences between islands, or are you just summarizing different sources (in which case, this is very misleading as it comes across as a comparison).
• I think the common names should be introduced in the Taxonomy section, and say which is the official one (IOC), as we do in many other bird articles. I wouldn't put a common name in the footnote in any case. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 18:34, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:01, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Not-cheesewhisk3rs

I'll take a look over the next few days. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 20:08, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Comments from Aa77zz

Comments on the cladograms. As mentioned above, I've already commented on cladograms in the peer review.

• What do the numbers 0.47 and 0.99 indicate in the upper (ASTRAL) cladogram?
• What do numbers 98 and 42 indicate in the lower (IQ-TREE) cladogram?
• The caption to the cladograms refers to the computer packages ASTRAL and IQ-TREE. It would be better to omit the names of computer packages but instead mention the procedures used by these packages: ASTRAL caculates a coalescent-based species tree while the IQ-TREE calculates a concatenated maximum likelihood tree.
• I'm not convinced that the cladograms in the article help the reader. They simply show that the relationships between the subspecies is uncertain or to quote Vinciguerra et al., that the "node support towards the tips was largely equivocal". - Aa77zz (talk) 16:49, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

I could toss the 2nd cladogram entirely and just add the phylogeny of the Micronesian myzomela's subspecies is uncertain, but would that be SYNTH? msk 19:03, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Dreamlover

Nominator(s): 750h+ 13:28, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about "Dreamlover", one of my favourite songs from Mariah Carey. It's a very fun pop/R&B tune with lyrics about Mariah's ideal lover. Commercially this song was a omnipresent hit across the US and broke the record for the most airplay received by a track in a single week (it held the record for three years). It was a pretty loved track and critics thought it was a cute lighthearted song. If successful this will hopefully be my 21st FA, as well as my first FA on a song! Enjoy, all comments are appreciated. 750h+ 13:28, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Dylan620

I just put up a song FAC of my own, so I think it behooves me to review this. I should have something more substantial in the next few days or so. Dylan620 (he/they/she • talk • edits) 06:34, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

The prose here is, generally speaking, excellent. It is easy to follow, while still providing a comprehensive overview of the song. I do have a few comments:

• The lede uses the word "received" three times in a very short span. I am mindful that variation isn't always a good thing, but I still think that one or two of these uses could be swapped out for synonyms such as "enjoyed", "experienced", "attracted", or "garnered".
• Also in the lede, "elsewhere" is made redundant by the list of territories in which the song charted. I recommend replacing Elsewhere, it with It also.
• began new relationships sounds romantic instead of professional.
• "Dreamlover" experienced crossover success across... is a little redundant, I'm afraid.

...and that's it! Excellent work on an article for a record-breaking hit, 750h+. Dylan620 in public/on mobile (he/him • talk) 13:08, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

@Dylan620: Thanks for the comments! If you have anything else (or if I missed anything) let me know. 750h+ 15:32, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Praseodymium

Nominator(s): ¹⁴¹Pr -_\contribs/- 18:37, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Praseodymium is a lanthanide element with distinctive chemistry and a range of technological applications. I have substantially rewritten and expanded the article and carried out several rounds of source checking. I believe it is now ready for FAC, and I look forward to reviewers' comments. ¹⁴¹Pr -_\contribs/- 18:37, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• File:Praseodymium(III)_oxide_(sample).jpg is quite blurry

• File:Auer_von_Welsbach.jpg needs a US tag and author date of death

• File:Monazite_acid_cracking_process.svg: what's the source of the data presented in this image? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:25, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Replaced File:Praseodymium(III) oxide (sample).jpg with the higher-res File:Praseodymium(III)-oxide.jpg.
• Replaced File:Auer von Welsbach.jpg with a c. 1880 portrait by Josef Székely from the Wien Museum, with clear authorship/date information and CC0 licensing.
• I could not identify the original published source used for File:Monazite acid cracking process.svg, but I checked the process conditions and chemistry against Demol et al. (2019) and added that source to the Commons file description.

¹⁴¹Pr -_\contribs/- 19:05, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Comment: Please disclose whether any AI or LLM was used in your rewrite. Please see Wikipedia:AI_noticeboard#User:Praseodymium-141. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 22:20, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Tetris

Nominator(s): Lazman321 (talk) 18:52, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

One of the most important video games of all time. Last nomination had to be withdrawn to resolve whether Tetris should be considered a video game. Now that that issue's been mostly settled, and I've finished my break from Wikipedia, I think this is ready for FAC Lazman321 (talk) 18:52, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Pinging GAN reviewer 3df, peer reviewers Shapeyness and ImaginesTigers, copyeditors MaddieLeQuire and Dhtwiki, and FAC reviewers Vacant0 and Noleander. Lazman321 (talk) 22:24, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Noleander

• In the previous nomination there was an extensive discussion about what the scope of the article was, including questions such as: What is the scope of the article? Is it a game, a franchise, a variety of a game? Does the article cover one game or more than one? When the word "Tetris" is used by itself in the article, how should the reader interpret it? Can you help me get started on this review with some information:
  1. What are the answers to those questions (as found in the article today)?
  2. What sort of changes were made to the article between then and now (in relation to these questions)?
  3. Were there any discussions by editors in some Talk page or RfC about these scope/terminology issues? If so, can you provide wikilinks?

Thanks! Noleander (talk) 22:57, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Basically, the scope of the article is Tetris the game and its many, many versions. Between the two FAC nominations, two RfCs were started regarding what Tetris should be considered, one at Talk:Tetris#RFC on How to Define Tetris and one at Talk:List of best-selling video games/Archive 12#RfC on the best-selling video game between Minecraft and Tetris. With their conclusion, the consensus seems to be very clearly that Tetris is a video game, one that happens to have over 200 versions, and should be represented as such on its page. And edits to the page ever since do reflect that consensus, such as calling the game, in wiki voice, the best-selling video game of all time. If there's anything in the article that still confuses you about its scope, I'll try to address it. Lazman321 (talk) 05:18, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• Don't use fixed px size

• Done Lazman321 (talk) 05:55, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• "A man" is not particularly useful as alt text

• Are these better alt texts. Lazman321 (talk) 05:55, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• File:Typical_Tetris_Game.svg: on what basis does the uploader hold copyright to this?

• The uploader claims to have created the image themselves, and as far as I can tell, it does not come from any particular version of Tetris already released. Is it still copyrighted because it's based on a pre-existing game? Lazman321 (talk) 05:55, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• File:Tetris-VeryFirstVersion.png has an incomplete fair-use rationale

• Done: Filled out fair use rationale

• File:Tetris_on_Game_Boy.jpg: why is the title screen believed to be de minimis when it is the point of the image? Ditto File:Tetris_on_an_iPod.jpg.

• Looking at Commons policy on de minimus work, it appears that since the depiction of Tetris is the point of these images, they must be deleted. I will remove them from the article. Lazman321 (talk) 05:55, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Nikkimaria (talk) 01:11, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

All comments addressed. Lazman321 (talk) 05:55, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Vacant0

Yes, I agree that this article is not styled like other video game articles because its situation is kind of complicated. I'll take a deeper look into the article during the next week. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 09:38, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Ordnance QF 25-pounder Short

Nominator(s): Nick-D (talk) 07:05, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

This article covers an Australian variant of the British Ordnance QF 25-pounder artillery gun that was developed for jungle combat during the Second World War. The 25-pounder Short was designed and tested in a matter of weeks in late 1942 to meet the Australian Army's need for portable artillery. A total of 213 guns were eventually built in Australia and the British adapted the design late in the war. Many Australian artillery gunners disliked the weapon, not least as it gave its gun crews concussion, but historians regard it as a successful weapon.

I've been plinking away at this article for a long time. It passed a Military History Wikiproject A-class review way back in 2010, but there weren't enough sources available to me at the time to take it further. I have since been able to expand the article, and am hopeful that it meets the FA criteria. Thank you in advance for your comments. Nick-D (talk) 07:05, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• Don't use fixed px size
  • Fixed Nick-D (talk) 02:18, 27 September 2026 (UTC)
• File:25_pounder_Short_1944.jpg: per the Australian tag, "please provide information of where the image was first published". Ditto File:2-8_Field_Regt.jpg, File:Australian_gunners_manhandling_a_25-pounder_artillery_gun_in_New_Guinea_during_1942.jpg, File:Short_25_pdr_Balikpapan.jpg, File:AWM_078071_2_3rd_Field_Regiment_New_Guinea_January_1945.jpg, File:Australian_gunners_manhandling_a_25-pounder_Short_artillery_gun_in_New_Guinea_during_1944.jpg
  • I've clarified that these are all PD Australian government, and the Australian War Memorial (which holds the images as part of its function as the relevant government archive) states that they are all PD on their database. Nick-D (talk) 02:18, 27 September 2026 (UTC)
• File:Standard_and_short_25pdr.jpg is missing publication information and also has a dead source link
  • Fixed. Nick-D (talk) 02:18, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Also I noticed a number of harvlink errors that should be resolved before a full source review is done. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:07, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• These should also be fixed now. Thank you for this review. Nick-D (talk) 02:18, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Urtica ferox

Nominator(s): Alexeyevitch^(talk) 11:30, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about an obscure stinging plant found in New Zealand. A nettle, in most parts of the world it's a nuisance, in New Zealand it's something to be very careful of. This plant is covered in stinging hairs or needles which contain toxins that are poisonous to humans and other animals. It is also the primary host plant for the New Zealand red admiral butterfly. The primary issue, which I hope has been resolved, was the prose and overall flow. I'm grateful to AxonsArachnida for helping me resolve this. This article has undergone a massive rework this year, I'm glad to see how far it's come, and the dedication of reviewers in an extensive Peer Review. Thanks to RoySmith, AxonsArachnida, Stitchbird2, and Noleander for their participation in the PR! Alexeyevitch^(talk) 11:30, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Not-cheesewhisk3rs

Will be reviewing this. Might not do the whole thing, but we'll see. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 16:20, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Lead

• " A member of the Urticaceae, the stinging plant is covered in trichomes" You just introduced it as a nettle. Why broaden that out to a "stinging plant"?

fixed

• "weeks; the sting is strong enough to kill cattle, dogs, and horses" so i assume the toxins aren't poisonous just to humans? could be clearer

fixed

• "Its 2023 assessment in the" are you sure that's 'in' not 'on'? It could be either, I'm not sure

both are correct

• "was "Not Threatened"." MOS:RETAINQUOTEVARIETY ?

fixed

Description

• "with the base of the stem or trunk reaching" is it a trunk or a stem? seems unlikely one u. ferox would have a trunk whereas the one beside it has a stem...

I'll opt to change it to 'main stem', because what this plant has you wouldn't really call it a girthy/stout trunk, but is still a main stem nonetheless

• "ovate-triangular, to lanceolate-triangular" you probably don't need to cater for laypeople but i don't understand what this means

It takes time to learn terminology/complex botanical words off the top of your head, and WP has a glossary of leaf morphology. Either way, it's still encyclopedically relevant, and has to be written in a way that's understandable to the "widest possible general audience". So... I'll change 'lanceolate' to 'lance-shaped' and 'ovate' to 'egg-shaped'. I'll also change 'truncate' to 'squared-off' and 'cordate' to 'heart-shaped'

• "Burrows (1996) found that" who? is he relevant? I am sorry if this is common practice in science articles, but I don't see why the readers need to know that "burrows found that". The sentence would be very understandable even without that mention.

It's standard in science articles, but I'll remove it anyway

If it's standard, you don't have to remove it. I don't actually know these conventions. --ncw

Will continue later from #Taxonomy. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 16:33, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

De Lange 2026 is not loading for me - is it a dead url?

Can you access the website now? I can redirect the link to the archived version if the problem persists.

No, can you? Probably just a problem on my end. --ncw

Taxonomy

IMO you don't need to link Georg Forster and scientifically described in the image caption again.

I'll delink 'scientifically described'

"It has been hypothesised" - by who? (since you don't mind naming authors)

I added "by various authors" becuase not only Xie et al. (2022) talk about this, and also Vennell (2019)

"U. ferox is commonly known as tree nettle and ongaonga." I don't think the phrase commonly known needs to be linked here.

k

"U. ferox has several recorded Māori names, including houhi, ongaonga, okaoka, puruhi, taraonga, and taraongaonga." are these also used to describe stinging insects? if not, it would be nice to have some translations, though if the sources don't have any translations, then there's nothing that can be done.

the source doesn't explicitly mention it. they all seem to be regional names, not really in common use.

Ecology

Nothing to say here, all good.

Distribution

"Not Threatened" and "Regionally Critical" MOS:RETAINQUOTEVARIETY ?

fixed

Uses

"and is said to have a sweet taste" if it's "said", someone says it, so it needs attribution. if it has a sweet taste, just write "and has a sweet taste", no need to cast any doubt over the statement.

removed

That's all from me, I don't have much to say - nice work. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 19:34, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks, addressed all. :) Alexeyevitch^(talk) 22:36, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Support for prose and grammar, as my comments have been adressed. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 23:05, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Noleander

• I did a PR on this, so I'll continue here with FAC.

• Is there a wikilink available for neurotransmitters?

Added

• Wording Among the six species of Urtica native to New Zealand, U. ferox is unique owing to it being tall and woody. "owing to it being" is a bit idiomatic, or vulgar. Is there a more professional way of wording that?

Agreed. I changed it to U. ferox is unique in its tall, woody growth form

• Cite confusing location: Among the six species of Urtica native to New Zealand,[15] U. ferox is unique owing to it being tall and woody.[16][17] Any way you could move "[15]" to the end of the sentence? The "U. ferox" that immediately follows [15] gives the appearance of starting a new sentence. You can add a note to the cite to indicate that it represents the "six species" fact.

Yes. [15] can be combined to [16]

• Grammar/wording There are two recorded human deaths from contact with the plant. Not as good as it could be: the words "caused by" or "resulting from" should be in there, I think. Consdier Two human deaths were caused by contact with the plant or similar.

Fixed

• Clarify In Māori mythology, the plant was placed in forests to prevent people moving freely and to irritate people. The Polynesian explorer Kupe was said to have placed several obstacles, including this plant, to slow down those chasing him. Some readers may not recognize that the 2nd sentence is part of the myth/legend; they don't know if Kupe was a real person or legendary; and they may think the 2nd sentence is factual. Can a few words be added to ensure readers get the right idea?

Fixed

• Clarify ... it has been assessed as regionally critical with an estimated 250 mature U. ferox plants in the region.... Lay readers won't know if "regionally critical" is a good thing or bad. Consider adding some words to explain that means it is endangered/vulnerable/threatened in that region.

Fixed, I think

• "Show Ref Tool" says that book cites use the "location" field inconsistently: 10 with; 3 without. Probably should use "location" in all or none of the book cites.

Removed the locations

• Compliance with WP Manual of Style is good: I cannot find any shortcomings.

• Prose is professional and engaging, and I cannot find anything that could be improved.

• Citation layout and formatting is uniform and consistent.

• Support on prose and MOS. I have not done an image review or source review. Excellent article on an interesting plant! Noleander (talk) 03:39, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Image review - pass

Hi Alexeyevitch, happy to do the image review. The article contains the following images:

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Urtica_ferox_63303968.jpg

  CC BY 4.0

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Urtica_ferox_needles.jpg

  CC BY-SA 4.0

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Urtica_ferox_young_stems.jpg

  CC BY-SA 4.0

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Georg_Forster.jpg

  PD

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pseudocoremia_flava_-_Uwe_Schneehagen_-_609408670.jpeg

  CC BY-SA 4.0

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Vanessa_gonerilla_gonerilla_-_Graham_Surrey_-_178876177_(cropped).jpeg

  CC BY 4.0

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Urtica_ferox_habit.jpg

  CC BY-SA 4.0

All images are relevant to the article and placed in appropriate locations. They have alt-texts and captions. The alt-text of the image https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pseudocoremia_flava_-_Uwe_Schneehagen_-_609408670.jpeg has a spelling mistake: change "visitng" to "visiting". Phlsph7 (talk) 09:54, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Oops, fixed now. Thanks for the image review. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 10:32, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Looks good. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:14, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

AxonsArachnida

As Alex has mentioned, I did a fairly extensive review of this at PR, so I won't have much new stuff to add here. I'll try to go over this during the weekend. Also for those interested, New Zealand red admiral is also up for FA, which is a deeply interconnected topic with U. ferox. Please do ping me if it looks like I've forgotten about this. AxonsArachnida (talk) 20:34, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

That's all from me, so I'm happy to support this. AxonsArachnida (talk) 21:14, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

• "The plant serves as a host for several moth species, and it is the primary source of food for the larvae of the New Zealand red admiral (Vanessa gonerilla) butterfly." In the lede you refer to the red admiral at species level (Vanessa gonerilla), but in the body you refer to it at subspecies level (Vanessa gonerilla subsp. gonerilla). I suggest changing the lede to the latter.

Changed

• "U. ferox has several recorded Māori names, including houhi, ongaonga, okaoka, puruhi, taraonga, and taraongaonga." You stated in the previous sentence that ongaonga is a Maori word, so it feels redundant to list it again here. I'd instead say "U. ferox has several other recorded Māori names, including houhi, okaoka, puruhi, taraonga, and taraongaonga."

Removed

• "The reaction to U. ferox's sting can be fatal, with two recorded human deaths from contact with U. ferox." I wonder if it is worth starting this sentence with "Although rare, the reaction to....". Just to make it clear that death is very unlikely from being stung.

Changed

Comments from Jim

I expect Australian animals and plants to try to kill me, but thought the NZ flora was tamer. Glad I didn't know when I was there. I'll work my way through as I go.

• There are quite a few duplicate links.

Are there any that stand out? I don't think any of them are not in line with MOS:DUPLINK

• Vanessa gonerilla subsp. gonerilla.— I'd spell out and link subspecies at its first occurence here.

Added

• was not threatened.— I'd prefer was "not threatened".

There's MOS:RETAINQUOTEVARIETY so it ideally shouldn't be in quotes

• Urtica ferox (ongaonga)— why the repeat of the maori name?

I normally add the common name in parentheses in the description section for understandability, like in Metrosideros bartlettii

• They are arranged in opposite pairs— opposing pairs?

I believe "opposite pairs" is more common in botanical descriptions

• The leaf shape is triangular, ovate to triangular, to lance-shaped to triangular — I can't say I'm much wiser about the leaf shape.

Changed to: "The leaves vary from ovate to triangular or lance-shaped, with coarsely serrated margins"

• U. ferox is capable of building up large seed banks (dormant soil seeds) in the soil which may survive for several years, like European species in the genus Urtica which also show seed bank dormancy.— redundancy here, Like European species in the genus Urtica, 'U. ferox is capable of building up large seed banks (dormant soil seeds) in the soil which may survive for several years

Changed

• U. ferox has a diploid chromosome count of 48.— link chromosome.

Okay

• which are found throughout the world—with a global distribution

Changed

• Deer, sheep, and goats eat U. ferox's leaves in spite of the trichomes (all introduced mammal species) —Deer, sheep, and goats (all introduced mammal species) eat U. ferox's leaves in spite of the trichomes

Changed

• The plant varies in abundance throughout its distribution area... whilst they are uncommon or absent north of Auckland

Changed to: "The plant varies in abundance throughout its distribution area, [...] whilst it is uncommon or absent north of Auckland [...]"

• in your list of book sources, you are inconsistent with regard to adding the publisher's location

Fixed

• More in due course Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:31, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Addressed all so far. Thanks. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 23:44, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

No further queries, happy to support now Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:06, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

1932 Abaco hurricane

Nominator(s): CapeVerdeWave (talk) 08:39, 25 September 2026 (UTC), Hurricanehink

This storm was one of just four Category 5 Atlantic hurricanes to hit the Bahaman archipelago and affected the same areas as Hurricane Dorian, the most potent cyclone to strike the islands. It also produced widespread effects northeastward over the North Atlantic, ranging from eastern peninsular Florida to Bermuda and Iceland. The storm generated incredible damage from extreme winds and storm surge on the Abaco Islands in the northern Bahamas, resulting in 18 fatalities. It caused many other deaths due to shipwrecks or high tides in eastern North America, resulting in 37–38 deaths overall. Some grisly facts: this large, powerful storm leveled large stone churches, tossing heavy blocks up to 1⁄2 mi (0.80 km) away, and exposed corpses at a cemetery. Storm surge in the Bahamas topped 20 ft (6.1 m), destroying entire settlements. Some people died after the storm, due to weakened buildings collapsing. The storm spawned huge waves from Florida northward, causing severe coastal erosion and numerous shipping incidents. In addition to rough surf and gusty winds, record-low air temperatures arrived soon after the storm bypassed the northeastern United States. Winds up to hurricane force damaged buildings and crops from the Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Canada. All these details make the 1932 Abaco hurricane worthy to be part of a future List of Category 5 Atlantic hurricanes featured topic. CapeVerdeWave (talk) 08:39, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• Confirming my co-nomination here. I have worked a lot with CVW on the article. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:17, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Seeing that I have an FAC of my own, here are a few first thoughts:

Suggest changing first sentence to include .....hit parts of the Lucayan Archipelago in the Caribbean .... if that is technically and geographically correct as many of us will not have heard the name of that archipelago before, and 'hit' is a stronger word than 'impacted'.

• @Chidgk1: Done: impacted portions of the Lucayan Archipelago → impacted portions of the Lucayan Archipelago in the Caribbean

Wikilink first occurrence of "Bahamas".

• This is already done in the storm infobox caption (beneath the image).

There is "Harv warning: There is no link pointing to this citation. The anchor is named CITEREFLandsea2022"

• I do not see this. Can you pinpoint it?

• It ıs in the References section after cite 5 - you probably don't have a script installed to see it. I never use harv refs myself as I find them so confusıng but I have User:Trappist the monk/HarvErrors installed so I can see the errors. The short explanatıon at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:HarvErrors may help

• @Chidgk1: I think I got it. There was a stray extra line that might've been causing the issues. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:25, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

You have a 'see also' ultimately linking to Hurricanes in the Lucayan Archipelago but I wonder if that is needed as perhaps it should be mentioned in the body of the article if not already done so Chidgk1 (talk) 09:06, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• See my response to the first point. CapeVerdeWave (talk) 16:35, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

@Chidgk1: for what it's worth, most tropical cyclone articles include a "List of" in the "see also" section, so curious readers can see what other storms affected a given area. I see CVW linked it in the article, but I went ahead and restored it back to the see also section. See the sections for hurricanes Andrew, Camille, or Sandy. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:17, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Drive-by comments by MSincccc

• I've made a few revisions, but here are a few other thoughts:

Meteorological history

• formed into a tropical depression 50 mi (80 km) east of Anegada in the British Virgin Islands
  • How about "developed" in place of "formed"?

@MSincccc:  Implemented

Impact

• "offshore the Maritimes" → "offshore of the Maritimes"

 Implemented

• "loss of seven or eight aboard" → "loss of seven or eight people aboard"

 Implemented CapeVerdeWave (talk) 16:35, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

That's all from me at present. Good luck with the nomination. MSincccc (talk) 14:00, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Addenda by CVW

@Chidgk1, MSincccc, and Hurricanehink: I also noticed that some meteorological details—about Andros being unaffected, along with the winds on Prince Edward Island and at Halifax—may seem redundant, given that they are not the most noteworthy. However, upon review, I feel that they give some context. The Andros tidbit, combined with the information from other islands, gives an idea as to the size of the storm. Prince Edward Island was mentioned in the first Canada paragraph, so the winds add some extra context, as do the Halifax data. Still, any feedback would be appreciated. CapeVerdeWave (talk) 08:24, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments by Penitentes

• This is a very strong article. The prose is refreshingly clear and direct. Most of my comments are nitpicks. You and Hurricanehink should be proud.

Lede

• 14–15 people died in Canada
  • It's a little clunky with the need to express the range, but this would be better without starting the sentence with the numerical figure. I would suggest "Fourteen or fifteen people".

    Changed to "Across Canadian waters, 14 or 15 people died, and five more drowned in the northeastern United States." ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:03, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Meteorological history

• On the following day it became extratropical and turned east-northeast.
  • I know that extratropical is wiki-linked in the infobox, but still I think wiki-linking it here would also be helpful so that people can click through in situ like they can with every other stage of the storm tropical depression, minimal hurricane, etc.

    Done. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:00, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• part of the Bahaman chain
  • This should be Bahamian, which is used twice elsewhere.

    Fixed. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:00, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Impact

• the storm caused few deaths at sea within the United States
  • Something's up here, I can't tell if either "at sea" or "within the United States" is an outlier sentence fragment.

    I think this can be merged with the previous sentence to: " Ample radio warnings limited the death toll to five in the United States: two each in New Jersey and Massachusetts, and one in New York." ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:03, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• totaled several thousand dollars in the United States and over $33,800 in Canada
  • Would inflation templates be implementable here, or are the figures too vague? The century since the hurricane makes me curious what the costs would be today. The same goes for other listed monetary damages in the article.

    Typically, tropical cyclone articles do not give currency inflation estimates. For starters, the global coastline is a lot more populated than it used to be (especially 1932). Also, the US figure of "several thousand dollars" is too vague to be inflated IMO. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:00, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• 16 smacks and all the fishing stages
  • As it begins a sentence, this number should be written out.

    I reworded/changed it to "In Hermitage, 16 smacks and all the fishing stages were torn apart." ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:03, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Aftermath

• 21 packages of clothing were shipped from Miami
  • As it begins a sentence, this number should be written out.

    I changed it instead to "The ship Ena K. sailed from Miami to deliver 21 packages of clothing." ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:00, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• ending a key to the local economy
  • Not ungrammatical, but a little awkward. Ending a pillar of the local economy, perhaps?

    Changed to "pillar". ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:03, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Article-wide

• There are many numbers between zero and ten that are not spelled out throughout the article. I can't demand that you change those, but I think it might be nice, given how many numeric figures a weather-related article like this one necessitates because of wind and pressure estimates.
  • @Penitentes: can you give an example? A unit like "7 mi (11 km)" should have the number. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:03, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

  I was under the impression from MOS:SPELLNUM that it didn't matter if it was a unit conversion, as long as the unit itself was spelled out too, but after sitting with it I think I'm wrong and it's fine as is. Penitentes (talk) 13:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

That's all I've got for now. Nice work! Penitentes (talk) 14:57, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Support Penitentes (talk) 13:45, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Anya Jenkins

Nominator(s): Pamzeis (talk) 15:59, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

Anya Christina Emmanuella Jenkins (aka Anyanka, Aud or simply ANYA) is a thousand-year-old capitalist ex-demon with rabbit phobia known for her tactless lines such as "Oh, you mean an orgasm friend?" or "Can I trade in the children for more cash?" A fan-favourite character from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, she, for the most part, serves as comic relief, though she is surprisingly poignant at times (see: "The Body"). Anyhow, I overhauled this article earlier this year, and now, I think it's ready for the bronze star. Pamzeis (talk) 15:59, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments by PanagiotisZois

Leaving this here for now, to let you know I plan on making comments as soon as I am able. Great work on this article. And I love Anya's monopoly line. XD--PanagiotisZois (talk) 11:29, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Gopal Mukund Huddar

Nominator(s): — EarthDude (Talk) 20:31, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about Gopal Mukund Huddar, an Indian anti-colonial activist and anti-fascist soldier. Originally affiliated with the Hindu far-right, he later shifted to left-wing politics and fought in the Spanish Civil War as a member of the International Brigades. Though a pretty interesting figure, he has largely been forgotten since and the available reliable sources on him haven't allowed me to piece together everything about him, but I have tried my best.

I had previously nominated this for an FAC a few months back but it didn't pass due to a lack of participation and commentary. I am arriving here after having nominated this for peer review and improving the article through that. I believe the article meets all FA criteria and draws on all reliable sources I could find on this figure. — EarthDude (Talk) 20:31, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• File:Gopal_Mukund_Huddar_in_1936.jpg: when and where was this first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:47, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

  It first appeared online in this 2016 article. — EarthDude (Talk) 06:52, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

  It currently has a tag indicating pre-1931 publication - can that be confirmed? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:47, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

  As far as I understand, that specific tag refers to a pre-1931 publication or cases where copyright notices or renewals are lacking. This image falls into the second category. — EarthDude (Talk) 05:14, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

  If it was first published in 2016, notice and renewal would not be required. Was that first publication? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:00, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

  Yes, it seems to have first published in 2016. I haven't found any pre-2016 use of the image. — EarthDude (Talk) 04:20, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

  Okay, so then a tagging change is needed. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:40, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

  Alright. Could you tell me what tag needs to be placed? — EarthDude (Talk) 13:50, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

  Suggest referencing the Hirtle chart. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:19, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

  The third entry under "Works Published Abroad After 1 January 1978" states, "Published without copyright notice, and in the public domain in its source country as of URAA date", where this image falls under. However, it isn't accompanied by any commons copyright tag. — EarthDude (Talk) 20:06, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

RoySmith

I'm not sure if I'll do a deep dive on this, but I'll just note that I reviewed this when it was at Peer Review. I generally liked what I saw there and encouraged EarthDude to bring it here. I'll keep an eye on this and perhaps (no promises) come back for a more detailed review, but I think it would be better to let some other people give it a read before I do that. RoySmith (talk) 01:37, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Chidgk1

I am curious to know why he apparently didn't serve in WW2 - was that just because of his age and health or for a political reason do you know?

Chidgk1 (talk) 09:28, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Article says "He has since been largely forgotten" So are you sure this article still needs extended protection? Did you know that nowadays pending changes protection is possible? Chidgk1 (talk) 14:32, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

The article was granted extended protection by admins because it fell under WP:CT/SA. — EarthDude (Talk) 09:55, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Any idea why he was adopted? Chidgk1 (talk) 14:47, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

I don't know if there is a formal rule about it but rather than (transl. Supreme Leader) I would be happy to have "Supreme Leader" link to the İndian word. Similarly for (transl. General Secretary) Chidgk1 (talk) 14:54, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Do you mean having the wikilink for sarsanghchalak and sarkaryavah in their translations instead? — EarthDude (Talk) 10:17, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

I meant not having brackets but simply linking the words "Supreme Leader" to sarsanghchalak. However it is not important just a thought. Chidgk1 (talk) 05:02, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Are there any recordings of his speeches which could go in an "External links" section? Chidgk1 (talk) 14:54, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

I had tried to find recordings of his speeches when I was initially creating the article, but I couldn't find any. — EarthDude (Talk) 11:12, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

I wonder whether the controversial thing about this article is the claimed "lack of engagement of the RSS with the Indian independence movement"? If so I think the cites for that ought to have quotes from the sources, especially if they are not online. Sorry I feel unable to either support or oppose this article to be featured as I don't know how reliable or neutral point of view the cite for note 4. is Chidgk1 (talk) 16:15, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Jha is a pretty well reputed scholar. His work, which was used as a source, is highly reliable. — EarthDude (Talk) 11:10, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

For content proposals, such as why he was adopted and why he didn't join WW2, I'm afraid the limited sourcing on him don't seem to cover that. — EarthDude (Talk) 11:14, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Geometry Dash

Nominator(s): ZKevinTheCat (talk) 09:21, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Geometry Dash is a Swedish indie game released in 2013. While initially it flew under the radar, it quickly picked up popularity and has now grown into one of the most successful indie games of all time. Because of its initial obscurity, however, there are not many reviews from big publications, which has made it extra challenging to get this article up to snuff. After a shoddy GA review and failed FA nom I went back and basically rewrote almost the entire article a second time in March with the help of a Peer Review. If this passes this would be my first FA, and it would be a great honor to bring an article as challenging as this about I game that I've played on-and-off for over a decade to the top tier of quality on Wikipedia. ZKevinTheCat (talk) 09:21, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Source review - pass

This is one of my favorite games, so of course I couldn't resist doing a source review! RedShellMomentum 21:43, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

This table lists 5 random passages from throughout the article (5.1% of 98 total passages). These passages contain 5 inline citations (4.3% of 117 in the article). Reference numbers refer to this revision. Generated with the Veracity user script. RedShellMomentum 21:43, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

@ZKevinTheCat: Sorry for the delay; source review is all good. I currently have a peer review for "Pusher Love Girl" up; you may leave comments there if you wish. RedShellMomentum 02:27, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

Reference #	Letter	Source	Archive	Status	Notes
Classic gameplay
3	a	thegamer.com	web.archive.org	✅
Geometry Dash was created by Swedish video game developer Robert Topala. In 2010, Topala published his first video game, Bounce Ball Thingy, on Newgrounds, developing it while he was studying civil engineering. He abandoned his course as he became more interested in the video game industry.
20	a	cultofmac.com	web.archive.org	✅
The next update, update 2.2, had been teased since November 2017
6		youtube.com		✅
David Ingrusee at Indie Hive said that the graphics have the potential to be "excessively beautiful", although that some levels' decoration was overly distracting.
2	i	indie-hive.com	web.archive.org	✅
In 2019 Breakit reported that RobTop Games had earned kr 75,200,000 in profit the previous year, and a total profit of kr 313,000,000 for the previous four.
48		breakit.se	web.archive.org	✅

Pamzeis

Will review this soon! Pamzeis (talk) 15:33, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

@Pamzeis Ditto per below. — VJTHEDJ (t) 05:15, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments:

• By my count, the word "level" is used almost 70 times throughout the article, including around 30–40 times in #Gameplay—it seems like it's not necessary every time it's used, for example:
  • Each level is assigned one of six difficulties: "Easy", "Normal", "Hard", "Harder", "Insane", and "Demon".[RT 1] Each levelThey contains three secret coins, requiring the player to take an alternate pathway or complete a task to obtain them.
  • And also, Completing levels will unlock icon customizations,[7] with classic levels further awarding the player with stars, and platformer levels with moons sticks out to me, because it uses level 3 times within one sentence.
• There's a bit of an issue with the "Gameplay" section being quite repetitive in its word choice. I understand there might not be alternatives for these terms, but I think there are certain cases where the structure could be altered or details could be omitted so that we don't get as much repetition.
  • Looking at the final paragraph, we've got: "There are several collectibles and currencies that can be obtained in various ways. Completing levels will unlock icon customizations,[7] with classic levels further awarding the player with stars, and platformer levels with moons.[4] Levels will also award mana orbs, with 500 mana orbs awarding a Demon key. Demon Keys can be used to unlock chests in the Treasure Room, which will give rewards, such as mana orbs, diamonds, and icon designs.[11] There are also two daily chests which award diamonds,[12] mana orbs, and Demon keys.[13] Mana orbs[14] and diamonds can be used in shops to purchase icon customizations and other cosmetics.[12] Vaults can be unlocked after obtaining certain amounts of collectibles, where entering codes can award further icon customizations.[15][16]" — I think this could definitely be more concise.
• "As he continued to develop games, he quit his civil engineering course to pursue his new career, releasing a handful of games prior to Geometry Dash such as Boomlings." — doesn't seem lead-worthy, given it's only tangentially related to the game
• "He began development in early 2013, being inspired by other titles such as The Impossible Game and Super Meat Boy." — was he inspired to begin development by other titles, or was the game itself inspired by these other titles?
• "He published Geometry Dash in August" — the company published the game, not the person, no?
• "A practice mode option allows checkpoints to be placed that the player can restart from" — the passive voice is a bit awkward for me here. Can it be in active voice?
• "For example, the default Cube game mode allows the player to perform jumps, the Ball game mode lets the player change gravity, while the Ship game mode allows the player to fly." — the use of while seems a bit off to me here because there are three items
• "The Dual game mode duplicates the icon, allowing the player to control both at the same time or each individually in Two-Player mode." — I'm having trouble understanding what this means. How do they control both at the same time? What is Two-Player mode? Is Dual game mode a result of the portals as well?
• "Timing and rhythm are crucial" — are we talking about the player's timing and rhythm or the music's? It's not clear for me.
• "though this mode doesn't reward certain collectibles" — seems a bit trivial to me, and doesn't make the most sense, given collectibles are not explained until later
• Is it "Demon key" or "Demon Key"?
• "Geometry Dash features the ability to upload and play user-made levels." — not entirely sure about this wording—wouldn't it be the players that have this ability, not the game?
• "These levels may use music from the main levels or feature custom music imported from Newgrounds.[3] Players may also use music from 10 selected artists,[RT 2] as well as music from the British record label NoCopyrightSounds." — couldn't this be one sentence?
• "Some user levels also contain user (silver) coins, which are similar to secret coins.[16] User levels may be rated one of the six difficulties the developer levels have, or given the "Auto" difficulty if user input is not required to complete the level.[RT 1] User-made demon levels are divided into five additional difficulties: "Easy Demon", "Medium Demon", "Hard Demon", "Insane Demon", and "Extreme Demon", most of which are more challenging than the three official demon levels.[18]" — what makes the silver coins similar to secret ones? Can it just be said outright (i.e. user (silver) coins, which allow X)? Is it that they allow users to play demon levels? If so, I think the stuff about difficulty should come before the coins bit.
• "Some players have recreated entire video games within the level editor" — iffy on the use of "entirely" here, since it might imply that the content is exactly the same (if that makes sense?)
• "developing it while he was studying civil engineering" — if possible, I think it'd be helpful to clarify what level he was studying at (e.g. at university or something)
• "it and Kingdom Escape were eventually scrapped" — what does "scrapped" mean here? Were they never published? Were they deactivated? Did development cease?
• "According to Topala, Geometry Dash began as a platformer that could have moved in any direction." — wording seems off here—why "according to" (WP:INTEXT)? He's talking about what conceived himself, isn't he?
• "He wanted it to be a tribute to the Super Mario Bros.–style platformers he played when he was young, the game starting as a simple template of a cube that could jump and crash." — the wording's kinda awkward here, and it's a bit ambiguous where "the game" is Geometry Dash or a Mario game.
• "Geometry Dash began as a platformer that could have moved in any direction" and then "the game starting as a simple template of a cube that could jump and crash" a phrase or two later feels a bit scattered for me...
• "Other games such as The Impossible Game, Super Meat Boy, and Bit.Trip Runner inspired Topala to make Geometry Dash." — can "make" be more specific? It seems a tad informal as well.
• "It was developed using the Cocos2d-x game engine[27] and took Topala about four months to create." — is this still referring to the beta version?
• "it would release on iOS and Android on 13 August.[c] It would later release" — WP:INTOTHEWOULDS?
• "It would later release on Windows Phone and Steam the following year on 12 June 2014[RT 5] and 22 December 2014 respectively." — of "later", "the following year" and "2014", only one is needed.

Stopping before #Post-release for now. In regards to some of the comments below, I've skimmed through some of the academic articles, and while some of it is... extremely mathematical, I also noted that there seemed to be quite a few pieces discussing (or briefly mentioning) its use by and impact on primary school students. Could that not be incorporated or am I going off on a weird arc-but-not-quite-tangent-cuz-I'm-still-discussing-the-article (and now I'm going off on a tangent, because I can't decide on my word choice) here? Pamzeis (talk) 02:27, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

NRP

Will review. Ping me if I haven't left comments in a week. NRP (talk) 20:23, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

@NRP Not the nominator, but you didn't leave your comments on this yet. I assume you're busy, but I'm only letting you know :P — VJTHEDJ (t) 05:10, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding me. I will later today. NRP (talk) 14:00, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

I'll take a look at prose later, but first I'm looking at sources.

• Geometry Dash needs to be italicized in sources.
• TheGamer is not reliable per WP:VALNET.
• Replace sensortower.com with the actual name of the website. That said, what makes it reliable?
• What makes Pocket Tactics reliable? And iXBT Games?
  • Both Pocket Tactics and iXBT Games are considered reliable under WP:VG/S. Content from TheGamer posted after August 2020 is considered "generally reliable". For Sensor Tower, see Fathom's discussion below (the naming error has been fixed). I am actually unsure about the appropriate style for italicizing. The sources cited do not italicize it, so I left them in regular style. Looking at the pages for other VG FAs, Genshin Impact does most of the time, while GTA V does not do it at all. ZKevinTheCat (talk) 21:36, 1 October 2026 (UTC)
    • They're supposed to be in italics per MOS:CONFORM; those articles should do it too. Those sources are fine then, though I would try to remove TheGamer where more reliable sources support the same information. NRP (talk) 00:53, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Vacant0

I often see complaints about video game jargons not being addressed, especially in FAC nominations. I might do a full review, but for now, I'm just letting you know of this ongoing issue. You can see all jargons here: Glossary of video game terms. Some of them have sources listed, some don't. If you need help with addressing this, let me know. Cheers, Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 11:14, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

Additionally, Google Scholar gives me 544 results when searching "Geometry Dash", so I'd suggest adding a few scholarly articles, if they're useful of course. TWL could help too. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 11:55, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

I have actually looked at those a bit, but unfortunately I don't really see a way to use them in this article. A lot of them are also very jargon-heavy and I don't really understand them. ZKevinTheCat (talk) 04:29, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Monathephantom

Most of the things I picked up for now, but these two sources are not viable for a FA.

• https://www.148apps.com/geometry-dash/geometry-dash-review/ 148apps is listed as an unreliable source.
• https://thenerdstash.com/how-to-unlock-the-mechanic-in-geometry-dash/ is not considered unreliable, but it's an unknown source and all featured articles must use high quality sources

This is just everything i picked up so far. I'll review further soon. Monathephantom (talk) 18:41, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

I have removed the Nerd Stash citation, but I do not see the reason to exclude 148Apps. Another featured article also uses this website as a source (it is also used on Metacritic). ZKevinTheCat (talk) 02:43, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

148Apps is not listed as an unreliable source, but rather as a situational one. The source was previously deemed to be reliable, therefore it could technically pass as it is cited to an article from 2013. I doubt that newer articles from that site could pass as a reliable source at FAC. Also, Metacritic lists many sources we deem to be unreliable, therefore, that cannot really be a good argument for keeping that source in this article. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 12:03, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

Fathoms Below

RedShellMomentum when you do a source review, you are generally expected to also give a description as to why the sources meet the FA criterion of being high-quality and well researched. Monathephantom above has just raised concerns regarding two sources, and I have questions regarding the quality of some others.

• What makes Indie Hive a reliable source? The author David Ingrusee appears to have written for no reliable outlets that I can see.
• Softpedia is listed as situational on WP:VG/S, though the latest source evaluation was over 14 years ago so I am treating this with a grain of salt. But can you provide an explanation for why Andrei Dobra is a reliable source (i.e. has he written for any other reliable outlets?)
• Who is the author for the Jeuxvideo review? I've used this website before and I see that it is reliable but I would also like some information on the author if possible.
• Metacritic sources for games such as Boomlings Matchup and Memory Mastermind should only be used for the purpose of aggregating reviews, and should not be used for other things such as saying that "[Developer] also created [this game]"
• Noting here that I have used Pocket Tactics before and the author Daz Skubich appears to have written for reliable outlets such as PCGamesN
• What makes Sensortower a reliable source? It appears to be a Digital Marketing platform.
• The author of the Cult of Mac article appears to have written for Wired, a reliable source for tech, but I'm less certain of the rest of the outlet as a whole.
• The Development section as a whole has a large reliance on primary sources, including the Swedish Games Awards, YouTube videos from Topala himself, and the Cocos website (for a game developed using that engine). Later in the section the App Store version history is also cited as a source. While I have seen many video game FAs use primary sources such as YouTube according to our guidelines at WP:VG/S, they never make up more than a fraction of the cited sources and I am not confident in supporting an article for FA that uses primary source to cite a large percentage of a key section.
• There are a lot of quotations in a short reception section that could probably be paraphrased to still get the original meanings across.

I'm leaning towards opposing right now sadly due to the quality of the sourcing in the Development section. While there are good sources in there such as Vandal, TouchArcade, and Bleeding Cool, most of the coverage appears to be about the game after release, and the coverage of the game before release has a lot of questions that should be addressed. I plan to go into a deeper review later. Fathoms Below (talk) 02:30, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

Let me address some of your concerns:

• I'll be truthful and say that I am not entirely sure how to evaluate a publication as reliable. I was aware that Indie Hive was not on the reliable sources list, but I was unsure if it is actually unreliable. It was not brought up in the first FA review or the peer review.
• I can't find anything on Dobra because there are apparently a lot of people with that name. I kept Softpedia as again, it was not mentioned as problematic in the first FA review or peer review. (This review is also used on Metacritic).
• If you go back to the first archive of that Jeuxvideo review it says "L'avis de Meego", which when translated means "Opinion of Meego" or something like that. I have no idea if Meego is a name or a title, so i left it out. There is another Jeuxvideo source with no available name, even in the archives, and another that appears to list the author as "Xorvencharger", which runs into the same problem as "Meego".
• I used Sensortower because i saw that it was also used in Genshin Impact, another FA
• I have removed one primary source, and perhaps I could remove more in the future, but as it stands there is very, very little on the development of this game (this applies to really almost the entire rest of the article). Trust me, I have searched extensively for information but I have been unable to find much of anything beyond what is in the article. This is the reason I rely on primary sources, including ones from Topala, Metacritic, ect. extensivly. There may be more reliable information out there but I have yet to find it. I understand the concern but in absence of this information from secondary sources this is the pretty much the only other option I was able to devise. Additionally, you mention Vandal as a good source to use but it is used for the same purpose as the Metacritic citations, for dates or other extremely basic information. Is there a difference between the two websites in this scenario? I also used a few more websites (like a lot of stuff in the Spin-off section) like this too.
• I have tried to paraphrase the quotes in the development and reception sections.

ZKevinTheCat (talk) 03:47, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

• I'm surprised that Indie Hive was not brought up in the peer review, but unless you have evidence that the outlet has a detailed editorial policy and/or it has multiple authors that have written for reliable sources, I don't think that it can be used.
• Since Softpedia is listed as situational, an author from there should probably have written for a high-quality reliable source and I couldn't find much regarding Dobra either. It seems like Softpedia was the only outlet that he has written for, but someone over at WT:VG/S may be able to do a deeper dive.
• Okay regarding Jeuxvideo
• Regarding Sensortower, I'm going to ping @Gommeh, the main author of Genshin Impact, to point me towards some of the reliable sources that cite it if possible.
• Regarding Metacritic, if I recall correctly their release date information and developer information is shared by GameFAQs which is unreliable, while Vandal's information I presume is compiled by actual journalists.
• Regarding the primary sources in the Development section, I'm actually quite surprised to see a game this old and popular receive so little development information. This seems to be a slightly similar case to Five Nights at Freddy's, where a game with a large following somehow has little to say regarding its creation. With that article I was able to squeeze out a limited amount of information from some relatively short interviews, and there was a bit of a more substantial review presence that allowed me to expand the reception section. This seems to be an even shakier case, and while I would say that the article is up to GA status, not every Good article can be made into a Featured article (certainly I think one or several of my own GAs could not be made into a FA), and the reason for this more often than not is the sourcing and/or the ability to write a comprehensive account of the topic. I'm going to abstain at the moment but I'm hesitant at supporting an article for FA when two key sections are unable to stand without some lower-quality sources.

Fathoms Below (talk) 04:35, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

Sensor Tower should be fine, as the New York Times , Wall Street Journal , and USA Today have all used it, among many others (WP:USEBYOTHERS). In solidarity, Gommeh ^{(talk 🎮 sign)} 11:10, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

David Unaipon

Nominator(s): MCE89 (talk) 09:18, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about an Aboriginal Australian author, inventor, and preacher named David Unaipon. Born on a Christian mission in South Australia, Unaipon became a celebrity scientist and public speaker during an era when very few Aboriginal people could even exercise freedom of movement. While his writing wasn't widely recognised until after his death, he is now regarded by many scholars as the first Aboriginal Australian published author. He may also be familiar to Australians as the man pictured on the $50 note. MCE89 (talk) 09:18, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• I'll review this. It's been some time since we last had you at FAC. MSincccc (talk) 06:36, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

Life

• "they had one son named Talmage de Witt later that year" → "they had one son, Talmage de Witt, later that year"

  Done. --MCE

• "made up of eighteen tribes" → "comprising eighteen tribes"

  Done. --MCE

• From 1913 onwards Unaipon was employed by the AFA as a subscription collector,
  • Drop "onwards"?

    Dropped. --MCE

• He travelled across southern Australia throughout the 1920s to speak at churches and schools about Aboriginal traditions and about the treatment of the Aboriginal population.
  • Could we avoid repeating "about"?

    Dropped the second. --MCE

• In 1925 he sold 29 of his articles, including both legends and essays on Aboriginal ethnography,
  • Do we need "both" here?

    Dropped. --MCE

MSincccc (talk) 13:40, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks @MSincccc and sorry for the slowness in responding to these! All done. MCE89 (talk) 13:53, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Writing

• "Later that year, the anthropologist William Ramsay Smith wrote to George Robertson of Angus & Robertson" → "Later that year, the anthropologist William Ramsay Smith wrote to George Robertson of Angus & Robertson after being commissioned..."
• After missing a letter from the publisher, however, Unaipon concluded
  • Do we need "however" here?
• Unaipon's original manuscript was placed in the collection of the State Library of New South Wales after his death, and in 2001 a new edition of Myths and Legends of the Australian Aboriginals was published under Unaipon's name and original title, edited by the scholars Adam Shoemaker and Stephen Muecke in consultation with representatives of Unaipon's estate.
  • How about splitting this sentence?

Inventions & Legacy

• "Between 1909 and 1944 Unaipon registered a total of ten provisional patents" → "Between 1909 and 1944, Unaipon registered ten provisional patents"
• The extent to which Unaipon's sheep-shearing mechanism was ever employed by shearers is unknown
  • Do we need "ever"?
• Unaipon was ultimately unable to commercialise
  • Drop "ultimately" here?
• "He argues that Unaipon was" → "He argued that Unaipon was"
• "Alexander describes him as" → "Alexander described him as"

Lead

• "he was also an inventor, registering 10 patents between 1909 and 1944" → "he was also an inventor, registering 10 patents" OR "he was also an inventor, and registered 10 patents between 1909 and 1944"
• "many of which were based on oral traditions that he had gathered" → "many based on oral traditions he had gathered"
• "he authored a book-length manuscript that he titled" → "he authored a book-length manuscript titled"
• "it was not until 2001 that the book was first published under Unaipon’s name" → "it was not until 2001 that it was first published under Unaipon’s name"
• which led to its appropriation by the anthropologist William Ramsay Smith.
  • Do we have a link to "appropriation"?

Bottom line

• @MCE89: That's all from me. A fine article. I look forward to your response. MSincccc (talk) 16:06, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Swein Forkbeard

Nominator(s): Dudley Miles (talk) 14:58, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

This is the latest in my nominations of later kings of Anglo-Saxon England, although in this case a Danish king. It was archived in July and is now renominated. Pinging Tim riley, Mike Christie, FunkMonk, Jens Lallensack, Fortuna imperatrix mundi, Johnbod, Wombatmanboy. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:58, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Support from Tim riley

Not much from me. Excellent article – just a few minor quibbles:

• ”Very little is definitely known about Swein's life” – I suggest that the adverb is superfluous: something is known or it isn’t.

• Done. Dudley Miles (talk) 18:21, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

• ”Timothy Bolton, the biographer of Swein's son,” – if he is the only biographer of Swein’s son, fine, but, if not, an indefinite article might be preferable

• Hmm. a biographer sounds rather dismissive of the author of the best biography. Changed to "the historian Timothy Bolton". Dudley Miles (talk) 18:21, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

• ”10,000 pounds ….16,000 pounds” – in both cases (or at least the first) some indication of the modern equivalent would be helpful to your readers. I know such measures are tricky at this remove, but e.g. relating the sums to the amount of gold held/the annual tax revenues/the annual wage of a labourer might be a help.

• Copied my note in the Æthelred article. Dudley Miles (talk) 18:21, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

• ”Harald refused claiming that Denmark was his paternal inheritance” – could do with a comma after ‘refused’

• Done. Dudley Miles (talk) 18:21, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

• ”Swein was a remarkable, and a remarkably successful, king” – I’m all for rhetorical repetition, but I’m not sure ‘remarkable’ and then ‘remarkably’ quite comes off here.

• This is in a quote so I cannot change it. Dudley Miles (talk) 18:21, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

• Oops! Fine! Tim riley talk 19:53, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

That’s my lot. I’ll be supporting, and am just suggesting these minor tweaks beforehand. Tim riley talk 17:33, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

• Many thanks Tim. Replies above. Dudley Miles (talk) 18:21, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

Happy to support. A fine, clear, engaging article, adequately illustrated, well referenced as far as I'm any judge. Meets the FA criteria in my view. Tim riley talk 19:53, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

Support Comments from Jim

I read this through yesterday, and at first sight it looked FA standard, as expected from such an experienced editor. I'd intended to start commenting today, but I've been led astray by a pretty Polynesian, so there may be a bit of a delay before my longship returns here Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:29, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

OK, I’m back from the bird. Just nitpicks really before I support Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:57, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Adam was a strong supporter of the claims of the German emperor and archbishop of Hamburg–Bremen of authority over Denmark— perhaps to have authority.

• Done. Dudley Miles (talk) 09:08, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• Link for apostasised probably needed.

• Done. Dudley Miles (talk) 09:08, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• who both lost control of York (southern Northumbria) — The linked article Scandinavian York says it’s a term used by historians for a region similar to current Yorkshire.

• In this context, it was the southern half of the ancient kingdom of Northumbria. See the caption to the map in the Scandinavian York article. Dudley Miles (talk) 09:08, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• As of 1994, only eight specimens of Swein's issue were known, indicating that it was on a small scale— perhaps suggested rather than indicated.

• The source says "Based on the eight surviving specimens, using a single obverse die, it was indeed a limited coinage". I have added "all of which had an obverse struck from the same die". Does this look OK now? Dudley Miles (talk) 09:08, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• blundered legends— What does that mean?

• It means that the lettering was messed up as it was copied by someone who was illiterate. How about "botched lettering? Dudley Miles (talk) 09:08, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• Swein's rule was very short-lived, as he died at Gainsborough— removed -lived, especially as it sounds odd in a sentence about his death.

• Done. Dudley Miles (talk) 09:08, 1 October 2026 (UTC)
• Thanks for the review Jimfbleak. Replies above. Dudley Miles (talk) 09:08, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• I like "botched lettering", no further queries, happy to support now Jimfbleak - talk to me? 10:41, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

UC

• In the footnote, is Sveinn Tjúguskegg simply Danish for "Swein Forkbeard"? That would be good to say if not.

• I have added Old Norse. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• with the Norwegian warlord, Olaf Tryggvason, until : no commas here, unless he was the only Norwegian warlord.

• Deleted first comma. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• He was also overlord of Norway c. 986 – c. 994 and from : not sure I'm a fan of circa like this: it doesn't read well with running prose. I'd suggest something like "between c. 986 and c. 994, and from..."

• Done. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Erik, King of the Svear: the capital on King seems to break how we've interpreted the ever-fun MOS:PEOPLETITLES with things like Æthelred the Unready, the Anglo-Saxon king of England. I would suggest decapping and perhaps adding a "the" before.

• Done. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• MOS:WORDSASWORDS: I would do italics or quote marks on e.g. "Viking" at the top of footnote e, perhaps the variants of Swein's name in footnote b, and any other time we're using a word as a word rather than for the thing it describes.

• Done. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Æthelred the Unready, the Anglo-Saxon king of England, fled to his brother-in-law in Normandy: Swein's or Aethelred's? One way around this might be to name him: "Richard, Duke of Normandy, the brother of Aethelred's wife"?

• It looks OK to me. The whole sentence is about Æthelred. But I have named Richard. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• After celebrating Christmas on the Isle of Wight: being very picky, the body only says Æthelred spent Christmas on the Isle of Wight. Presumably it wasn't a very celebratory occasion.

• Done. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Adam denigrated Swein because the latter neither recognized the German emperor as his overlord nor acknowledged the ecclesiastical authority of the archbishop of Hamburg–Bremen, which in Adam's eyes was tantamount to paganism.": in our presentation of this quote, it's not totally clear whether Adam's problem was that Swein didn't recognise the German emperor ("German" a bit anachronistic?) or that Adam didn't (whereas Swein did). A reworking would help. More of a problem is that we haven't yet introduced any German emperors or any archbishops, or indeed Swein himself, so any reader who actually needs to read this article will be very confused here. I'm not sure what the best solution is, but I think something ought to be done to help first-time readers figure out what's going on.

• On 'German emperor', this is outside my area, but as I understand it there was no official name for the empire. Wikipedia calls it the Holy Roman Empire, but historians object that this is anachronistic as it was not called "Holy Roman" until much later. Historians prefer 'German emperor', presumably descriptive, meaning the emperor of the German speaking lands. How about adding after "1070s": "Adam was a strong supporter of the claims of the [[Holy Roman Emperor|German emperor]] and archbishop of Hamburg–Bremen of authority over Denmark. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

This is a fair point -- Charlemagne was crowned Roman emperor. Lesser of two evils, perhaps. A date would help, perhaps; I'll have a think on any other ways to make it clearer. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 15:41, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• No dates are given in the sources. The emperorship was vacant between 983, when Otto II died leaving a three-year old son, and 996, when Otto III marched on Rome and had himself crowned emperor. Adam was no doubt far too vague on dates to take that into account. Dudley Miles (talk) 16:36, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

  Sorry, I'd slightly misunderstood. Yes, I think your proposed addition is a good one. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 17:38, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• the Danish Niels Lund, : why don't other historians get nationalities?

• I specify the nationality of Scandinavian historians to make clear that the article is not based solely on Anglocentric sources. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• The Gwyn Jones we have linked doesn't seem to be a historian; more a writer of stories and a translator of them.

• Jones was a professor of English and he mainly wrote on literary topics, but his History of the Vikings was published by the OUP and it is listed in the bibliographies of academic books on the Vikings. I think the description is OK. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Not convinced here: Boris Johnson has written books that are unquestionably history books, as has David Mitchell, but both are definitely not historians (although I've just found out that David Mitchell's undergraduate degree was in fact in history). UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 15:43, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• But presumably Johnson and Mitchell are not published by the OUP and listed in academic works. Do you not think that makes a difference? Are you querying the description of Jones as a historian or the inclusion of him as a source? I could change "Other historians, such as Gwyn Jones and the Danish Niels Lund" to "Other scholars, such as Gwyn Jones and the Danish Niels Lund". Dudley Miles (talk) 16:36, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

  That would be an improvement, I think. Even better might be "and the Danish historian...". I must admit I'm not totally sold on the logic of specifying nationality only when it's Scandinavian, but that's a separate thing. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 11:23, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• Done. Dudley Miles (talk) 06:58, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Adam invented his story to serve homiletic purposes rather than historical truth: MOS:NOFORCELINK: I think we could do a "that is,..." with a brief explanation of what Lund means here.

• Lund meant that Adam invented the story to support his hostile picture of Swein, but 'homiletic' seems an odd word here. I have changed the passage quoted to one which does not have the word. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• is equally biased : equal to what? We've just mentioned two sources, and to be frank I'm not sure bias is something you can quantify or measure in the first place.

• The source has "equally partisan", similarly compared to the two hostile ones discuss above. Would 'partisan' be better than 'biased'? Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• My usual plea for a map, perhaps particularly in the Background section: few people outside Britain will have an idea of where Mercia is.

• I cannot find a suitable map. There are many of early Anglo-Saxon England, but very few of the later period.

• I have added a map of Sweyn's campaign in England. – Swa cwæð Ælfgar (talk) 14:19, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Other historians do not give any view on the subject, apart from Sawyer, who says that her name is unknown: this is cited to Sawyer: does he say that he's the only person to give a view on this subject?

• I have deleted the note. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• the inscription on the Jelling stone: there are two Jelling stones.

• Changed to "one of the Jelling Stones". Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Gorm had been a pagan: I'm not a fan of "pagan" as a term, though this is the Late Antiquarian in me: it's an exonym which lumps everyone together by their relationship to Christianity. Something like "Gorm had practised the traditional Norse religion" or similar? After all, Gorm, Augustus Caesar and Genghis Khan were all equally "pagans", but their religions had nothing in common with each other.

• So far as I can find, Gorm is always described just as pagan, even in books about the conversion of Scandinavia. Maybe too little is known about his religion to be more specific. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

More to follow. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:48, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• Thanks for the comments UndercoverClassicist. Replies above. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Swein is the man on horseback: just a quick chip-in while I notice it (I'm hoping to come back for another proper run): the image shows quite a lot of men on horseback.

I only saw one, but on a closer look there is what appears to be a plainly dressed horseman behind the elaborately dressed one. I have added "front left". Dudley Miles (talk) 16:17, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• And a general point, now that I look back over the last nomination: could you talk a little about what you've done to address the points raised there by A.Cython?

• I assume you are referring to my failure to use Howard's book. I found it very difficult as he often makes statements, mostly unreferenced, which appear dubious, and I cannot cite sources disputing them because other historians do not discuss them. I have added discussion of his claim that Swein was driven into exile in note g as this is discussed by historians. Examples on pages 8-9 of Howard's book are 1. Swein was born in 960 +/- 2 years. This is far too exact. The only known relevant fact is that he had a grandson born in 998. 2. Swein's mother was not of noble birth. This is cited to the thirteenth-century Jómsvíkinga saga. According to the Wikipedia article on the saga the only verifiable facts in it are the names of some of the main characters. The only other historian who discusses Swein's mother just says that she is unknown. 3. Harald never recognised Swein as his heir. This is unreferenced and no other historian says it. 4. Harald's legitimate sons predeceased him. This is unreferenced and no other historian says that Swein was illegitimate and had legitimate sons. 5. Denmark appears to have fallen under Swedish influence while Swein was abroad. This is unreferenced and not stated by other historians.

• Are there other points raised by A. Cython you are querying? Dudley Miles (talk) 16:17, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

FM

• Marking my spot, am a little pressed for time at the moment, but it's an important subject for Danish history, so I'll try to return soon. FunkMonk (talk) 03:41, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• Any more historical places or contemporary artwork of relevance to show in some of the empty sections?

• Thanks FunkMonk. I have had another look and found some possibilities: Edmund killing Sweyn (sic), probably by Matthew Paris c:File:Cambridgemsee359f4edmundkillingsweyn.jpg and the Sweyn Forkbeard pub in Gainsborough c:File:The Sweyn Forkbeard public house, Gainsborough - geograph.org.uk - 1320426.jpg. Perhaps also portraits of Cnut and/or Æthelred. What do you think? Dudley Miles (talk) 10:58, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

All interesting, I think! So whichever you feel can fit the adjacent text. FunkMonk (talk) 18:27, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Here is a better-quality version of the first image I have uploaded to Commons some time ago: File:Cambridge, University Library, MS Ee.3.59, fol. 4v.png. However, since the article does not mention the legend of Sweyn being speared to death by the ghost of Edmund the Martyr, this may not be the best image to add. – Swa cwæð Ælfgar (talk) 14:15, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Joe Hill (activist)

Nominator(s): Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 14:42, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about a transient Swedish-American songwriter who organized with the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW/"Wobblies") until his execution in 1915, following a controversial murder trial in Utah. He is most well-known today for his song "The Preacher and the Slave" (where the term "pie-in-the-sky" comes from), and a song written about him simply entitled "Joe Hill". Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 14:42, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• File:Joe_hill002.jpg: source link is dead; when and where was this first published?
  • Couldn't verify the origin of this, so switched image. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:43, 29 September 2026 (UTC)
• File:Joe_hill_1898.jpg: the given source is from 1998, but the tagging indicates no publication before 2003 - those cannot both be correct
  • @Nikkimaria: I can't identify what copyright tag this would be under - it was PD before it was published in Sweden, so it should be PD in the US under URAA. What tag should we use then? Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:43, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• • • Suggest referencing this chart depending on when and where it was published. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:20, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
      • Bewilderingly, this image appears to be in copyright until the late 2040s (had it been published after 2003, it would be out of copyright!). Removed. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 00:01, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• File:Jos._Hillstrom_LCCN2014700049_Trim_Edit_Crop.jpg: when and where was this first published and what was the author's date of death?
  • George Grantham Bain, head of the Bain News Service, died in 1944. This is a newswire image so I think it's unclear when it was first published, exactly, but it would have been 1915. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:43, 29 September 2026 (UTC)
• File:Joe-Hill-execution-diagram-1915.jpg is tagged as lacking author info
  • Author is the Cleveland Press. Added. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:43, 29 September 2026 (UTC)
• File:The_Rebel_Girl_cover.jpg: source link is dead, tagged as lacking author info. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:05, 17 September 2026 (UTC)
  • Added information. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:43, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments from PMC

Signing on, usual caveat about ping me if I forget :) ♠PMC♠ (talk) 01:16, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

@Premeditated Chaos: Pinging! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:49, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• "He worked as an itinerant worker" - suggest "he was an itinerant worker" to reduce repetition
  • Done.-G
• "His conviction for murder" suggest year for conviction
  • Done.-G
• Two back to back sentences starting with "likely": "He likely became" and "In 1911, Hill likely"
  • Fixed.-G
• "Her children, now all old enough to work" this seems to contradict "the children were sent to factories to work" from the prev para
  • Fixed.-G
• Entering nitpick city here but "while Joel and his brother Paul decided to migrated to the United States. They purchased a ticket on the passenger liner Saxonia and traveled to New York City." can be trimmed to "while Joel and his brother Paul migrated to the United States, travelling to New York City on the passenger liner Saxonia."
  • Fixed.-G
• "He is known to have spent time..." do we know how we know this? (it might be too trivial to include, idk?)
  • Fixed.-G
• "Hill biographer Franklin Rosemont also suspected that he visited Alaska." - do we know why he thought this?
  • No clue, I just removed it.-G
• "declared to contain "songs to fan the flames of discontent" - suggest "whose cover said it contained "songs to fan the flames of discontent"." - mainly because "declared to" is passive voice and doesn't make clear who was declaring this
  • Fixed.-G
• "most popular and reprinted song." "spread and popular appeal" these kind of feel repetitive? if it's most reprinted, surely it was popular, and if it had popular appeal, surely it spread.
  • Fixed.-G
• RCMP are never just called the "Mounted Police", it's Royal Canadian Mounted Police, RCMP, or colloquially the Mounties :)
  • Fixed - turns out its not even the RCMP.-G
• "he headed east, seeking ultimately to travel to Chicago." I would trim to just "he headed east towards Chicago"
  • Reworded.-G
• "By mid-August 1913, he traveled via boxcar to Utah on the advice of the Eselius brothers, two Swedish-American smelters who had invited Hill to stay with them." This is somewhat confusing. Did he hit Chicago and then turn back around to Utah, or did he divert to Utah instead from LA?
  • Reworded, hope this satisfies.-G
• I might also trim this, as its a bit repetitive. Suggest "By mid-August 1913, he was travelling by boxcar to Utah at the invitation of the Swedish-American Eselius brothers." - since them being smelters doesn't come up again afaict, I'd remove that at least
  • Fixed.-G
• "he was never seen again" like ever? wtf lol
• "Morrison's widow informed" I think you normally need a subject that you inform to like "informed the police" or "informed a journalist"; if you don't want to add that, I'd sub "reported"
  • Fixed.-G
• "by prosecuting" by "the" I think
  • Fixed.-G
• "were reported to have" I think you can trim to "reportedly" or "allegedly"
  • Fixed.-G
• "However, he was never seen again." this repeats the sentence from earlier
  • Fixed.-G
• Suggest linking Pro se legal representation in the United States
  • Done.-G
• "made only three" -> "asked only three"
  • Fixed.-G
• "He ineffectually cross-examined a witness, but this did little to ultimately harm his case" this sentence feels odd. Is this cross-examination in addition to his three questions? If it had little effect, I'm not sure it's worth calling that out. You could cut that clause and integrate the cross examination into the previous sentence maybe? Something like "Hill was ineffective as his own counsel, asking only three questions of the twelve witnesses, one of whom he weakly cross-examined."?
  • Fixed.-G
• "After the preliminary trial concluded, the judge ruled" honestly I think you can trim the first clause - the judge is logically only going to issue a ruling after things conclude right?
  • Fixed.-G
• "He instead compared it to a cable" -> "He compared the case to a cable" (at least I'd trade "it" out even if you want to keep the "instead")
  • Fixed.-G
• "then published on October 4" -> lose "then", unnecessary
  • Fixed.-G
• "spiritual minister" odd phrasing I think. minister is a common enough term that I don't think you need "spiritual" here (the word makes me think New Age minister as opposed to the more common Christian minister and I think that's the opposite of what's intended)
  • Fixed.-G
• "he had already made peace" normally one makes peace with something - God, death, himself even
  • Fixed.-G
• the image of him dual wielding broken broomsticks is quite something
• "Boosted in popularity by notable performers... it gained popularity" - twice in the same sentence
  • Fixed.-G
• "were either of unknown origins or contributed by otherwise unknown workers." - repetition of "unknown" here; suggest "were of unknown origins or contributed by uncredited workers."
  • Fixed.-G
• "due to his background as a Lumpenproletariat" I see nothing has changed - for the ignorant among us, suggest briefly glossing this. (Also, would you describe someone as a Lumpenproletariat or as a a member of the Lumpenproletariat? I'd think it'd be the second)
  • Fixed; I think the correct term is lumpenproletarian.-G
• "has been claimed as Hill's creation" by whom? Is it disputed by anyone?
  • No, but there's no solid proof either. Reworded.-G

That's all, sorry it took me so long. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:03, 2 October 2026 (UTC)|

• @Premeditated Chaos: Responded! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 18:31, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Comments from Finnfrog99

• What is an "itinerant worker"?
  • wikt:itinerant. I feel this is a common enough term that it'd be unnecessary to clarify. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:43, 29 September 2026 (UTC)
• "His conviction for murder and execution under questionable evidence led to him becoming a folk hero among the American labor and radical movements." He was convicted for murder and executed for it?? This should be mentioned before this, comes out of the blue.
  • I don't think there's much leadup I can do in the first few sentences of the lede... This is how I introduce the main themes that will be covered in the rest of the lede section.-G
• "He lived as a hobo" could just be "He was a hobo"
  • Fair, reworded.-G
• "Hill has been honored by a popular folk ballad, alongside various other musical and literary tributes." Is 'popular' an opinion? I also thought that the link would be to folk ballad, should probably explicitly name the ballad
  • Reworded.-G
• Wanna note the existence of a Bethlehem Church (Stockholm) article, although not entirely sure a link would be appropriate
  • Different church.-G
• link Stockholm and New York City
  • This would fall under overlinking. (NYC is in the example for WP:OVERLINKING)-G
• Added inter language link for Hille
  • Thank you.-G
• "He spent around a year in New York, at one point working as a barback and piano player at a saloon in the Bowery neighborhood." New York City, not New York?
  • Yeah. Clarified.-G
• link Chicago and San Francisco Fire Department
• "Hill biographer Franklin Rosemont" shouldnt this be; "Hill's biographer Franklin Rosemont"?
• "stayed for some time in the San Pedro district." San Pedro's article describes it as a neighbourhood and not a district
  • District is a sort of generic term, and I think it may not have been strictly part of Los Angeles at this time.-G
• Mexican diaspora should link to Mexican Americans
  • Fair enough.-G
• link Mexican military and San Diego
  • San Diego would be overlinking, but done for the Mexican military.-G
• "A sixth edition, published only six months later, included four more Hill songs." which four?
  • I feel it'd be excessive to list them all out here, no?-G
• although no current article exists for it, I doubt a redlink to Silver King Coalition mine would hurt (feel free to ignore this one)
• link Salt Lake City Police and citizen of the world
  • I already linked Salt Lake City Police. Linking citizen of the world feels awkward because its part of a quote and its a redirect rather than a direct link.-G
• "Contemporary newspaper coverage names Bird as the informant" names -> name

  Wouldn't it be "named" given the rest of the paragraph is in past tense? -- RR

  • Yeah, fixed.-G
• "The chief of the San Pedro Police informed the Utah police of Hill's IWW connections" what does Utah police mean here? The salt lake city police department? Also, wouldn't San pedro police just be the Los Angeles Police Department? San Pedro is under their jurisdiction
  • San Pedro had its own police department at this time. The source says Utah police; I think it was a collab between state and local units. Reworded to "Police in Utah".
• "The following morning, they reached a guilty verdict, and Hill was sentenced to death. " both guilty verdict and sentenced to death should be linked, or neither should
  • Should it? Guilty verdict links to the juidical concept of guilt, which I feel falls under overlinking as a generally understood concept.-G
• "signed on to this call for clemency." link clemency
  • Done.-G
• link telegraph
• "various Swedish-American societies in Canada and the United States, the AFL ...etc" -> "various Swedish-American societies in Canada and the United States; the AFL ...etc"
  • Reworded.-G
• "for his song The Rebel Girl." change to "for his song "The Rebel Girl"." and add link to the song
  • Done.-G
• "Philip S. Foner declared that" Who is this?
  • Clarified.-G
• Remove the link for Thanksgiving or add one for Christmas
  • I'd argue the former is much less widely known (as a US-specific holiday).-G
• link Honolulu
  • Done.-G
• Lumpenproletariat should be italic
  • Done.-G
• "Hill's songs have been covered by a wide variety of later musicians, including Billy Bragg, Hazel Dickens, Ani DiFranco, Joe Glazer, Tom Glazer, Cisco Houston, Faith Petric, Utah Phillips, and Pete Seeger.[113]" Why is this it's own paragraph? it's one sentence
  • Joined.-G
• Is this 'Joe Hill Museum' the house museum?
  • Yeah.-G

That's all my comments! Some sections have more comments than others, eg. I couldnt find much to nitpick about in the trial. Great work! Froglord (Finnfrog99) (talk) 16:07, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

• @Finnfrog99: Thank you very much! Responded. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:43, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments from Reconrabbit

Some notes here:

• "Olaf Hägglund died after a workplace accident" Any further information? Did he specifically die of injuries sustained in the accident (thus clarifying "after"), did he die during the accident?
  • Clarified.-G
• " sailed to New York City" pedantic but Saxonia doesn't have sails, and the verb choice could lead to assuming it does
  • Fair enough, reworded.-G
• "Hille, Sweden near Gävle, where his father was born" maybe omit Gävle here as it could lead one to believe his father was born in the latter location, not Hille
  • Fair enough.-G
• "only Paul and his sister Ester ever learned of his later rise to prominence" later could be seen as redundant; no former rise to prominence is evident
  • Reworded.-G
• "the union began to publicize their songs and poetry" Is "began to" necessary here?
  • No, fixed.-G
• "8,000 workers on the Canadian Northern Railway participated in among the largest of the IWW's strike actions" the construction of "participated in among" is unusual especially here, what about "one of" rather than "among"?
  • Fixed.-G
• "disputes between the IWW and its larger and more moderate rival, the American Federation of Labor (AFL)" The AFL (and its acronym) were already introduced in this section, so it doesn't necessarily need to be linked and introduced again
  • Fixed.-G

I stopped taking notes at the Murder case section but will get back to this -- Reconrabbit (talk) 16:55, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

• 1992 mural's caption could mention the artist (Alewitz)
  • Done.-G
• "The Rebel Girl" is inconsistently italicized or in quotes
  • Fixed.-G

That's everything from me, all else is already noted by other comments above mine. -- Reconrabbit (talk) 17:55, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

• @Reconrabbit: Responded! Sorry for the delay. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:49, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

  Reviewed the above - you've got my support. -- Reconrabbit (talk) 17:10, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Comments from SnowFire

I'll take a look at this one. Interesting stuff from the initial readthrough of the article; nice work. SnowFire (talk) 02:51, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Excellent work. This is largely a source review, but I'll throw in some general commentary. This is jumping around some.

Up-front disclaimer: Smith, Gibbs M. (1969). Joe Hill: The Man and the Myth seems to be a rather obscure book. It's not at my local library nor accessible online. So apologies in advance if any multi-referenced claims go back to Smith.

• On that night, Hill had visited a doctor in the city Is the location of the doctor in Smith, and is it more precise than "city"? Foner doesn't make clear where precisely the Morrison grocery or Frank McHugh's office was, other than the general Salt Lake City / Murray region I guess. Grammar nit while here: I don't think "had" is required, simple past tense is fine.
• However, despite the support of figures such as Swedish ambassador August Ekengren and President Woodrow Wilson, no stay of execution was given. A stay of execution was given, though? He was executed ~49 days later than planned, per the article.
• As both of Joel's parents were devout Lutherans, Hill attended Sunday school Verified in source, but the rare "this is too loyal to the source" comment. While Rosemont does indeed use both "Joel" and "Hill", I think this is inconsistent. I'd suggest either "Joe" and "Hill" or "Joel" and "Hägglund".
• Hill biographer Franklin Rosemont also suspected that he visited Alaska. Verified in source, but Rosemont just... says this (and adds in Hawaii too for good measure, although that's gone into a bit later). And this is after disclaimering that "hard facts about Hill are harder to find than a good employer." While Rosemont is published and I'm not... I think this might just be Rosemont appreciating a vision of Hill as American traveller. Travel to Alaska was expensive and not really a great place for an itinerant to go find work in the era. I'd just leave this out without a better source or reason to think it accurate.
• calling liquor a "capitalist scheme to poison the working class". This is a verified quote, but the wording makes it sound like it's Hill's quote. I'd suggest leaving off the quotation marks. (or, alternatively, something like "According to a Swedish friend of Hill's, he called liquor "a capitalist scheme to poison the working class")
• Hawaii was a center of IWW activity during the 1910s This is another "verified in source, but wonder if this claim is still too strong." Rosemont calls it a "Wobbly hot spot" but largely cites the socialist press in support of this, which is only questionably relevant in parts as the IWW wasn't always working with the socialists. And even then, it's not uncommon to dress up any activity as larger than it was. I wonder if this might be toned down a little, either by attributing to Rosemont or by just stating the IWW was active in Hawaii (which is a safer claim). (My understanding is that the capitalists running the pineapple plantations and the like were very effective at suppressing worker activity in Hawaii of this era by all sorts of means, which is why I bring it up.)
• He stayed at the camp for much of April, disappearing south after the camp was raided by the Mounted Police. Verified in the sense that the source does say the mounties did it... but given that the article links to the RCMP which was only founded in 1920, I suspect a more accurate link would be to the North-West Mounted Police which seems to be the predecessor organization.
• The Tijuana skirmish & Mexican involvement: In fairness, the article says "Hill was likely part" of it. This one is a bit weird though because Hill himself denied participation, and the main source in Rosemont is an interview with an elderly friend decades after Hill's death in the 1950s. While Rosemont clearly believes the story, he also calls the interview "extraordinary" and complains that "it is not cited in any of the studies of Hill," which seems to be acknowledging skepticism from others. I think it might be good if this paragraph was somewhat more qualified with more "According to Murray" and the likes.
• In early January 1914, he and Appelquist were staying as guests at the house of the Eselius brothers in Murray. Is this sourced to Smith? Adler says Appelquist lived with them, and Foner directly says that Hill was not living there. Granted, maybe the Eseliuses were lying to save face after he was accused of a crime by claiming Hill didn't live there, but that might need a citation or directly discussing this fact.
• The Deseret News regarded the murder as a revenge killing. I think it might be better to say "initially published a story speculating the murder was a revenge killing" or the like, since they sure didn't stay on this angle long, given the whole hung by the police and the press stance of the sources.
• The case went to the jury on June 27 Foner (48-49) and Adler (266) both say June 26. This is cited to Smith, but even if Smith says June 27, I think we should go with the later Adler source unless there's good reason to think it's mistaken.
• The following morning, they reached a guilty verdict, and Hill was sentenced to death. No demonstrations by Hill's supporters occurred after the verdict, against police expectations. This is secretly jumping around time in an awkward way. According to Foner 48-49, the guilty verdict and expected protests were both on June 27, but the death sentence (in the middle) was on July 8. I think it would be better to be chronological here.
• Swedish ambassador August Ekengren Hypernitpick time: The Utah's History source does say "Swedish ambassador". However, it doesn't seem Ekengren ever attained the rank of ambassador, and his Wikipedia article simply calls him an "envoy." Foner p.75 calls him "Minister" and he apparently referred to himself as such. I think the current phrasing is still acceptable (so feel free to leave as is), but I would still suggest "Swedish [[Minister (diplomatic rank)|Minister]] (similar to ambassador) to the United States" , which is clunky as heck, but is precise to his rank while also clarifying he wasn't, like, a Christian minister or something.
• Labor historian Philip S. Foner declared that I would probably avoid "declared" here and go with just "said" or "wrote" per WP:SAID.
• In 1925, Alfred Hayes wrote a memorial poem entitled "I Dreamed I Saw Joe Hill Last Night" Rosemont mentions 1925 but also puts that date in the past (i.e. old info) and then says the first draft was more likely 1932, published 1934, and the song writer just wasn't super into accurate math in song lyrics with the "10 years ago" part.
• it is generally regarded as corrupt. I think "corrupt" might be not quite the right word. "Unfair" or "a miscarriage of justice" perhaps? I don't think the claim is that the jury was bribed or the like, but rather that the proceedings were stacked.
• while Franklin Rosemont claimed the trial was filled with "grotesque violations of judicial procedure". This might undersell Rosemont if anything; he's by far the most firebreathing of the sources. He calls it "judicial murder" outright. "Claimed" can also probably go with just "said" or "argued", too. (Optional side note: MOS:DUPLINK has been modified from the old days, and it's okay to potentially re-link an article. I think that for the analysts with sources, like Rosemont, it's useful to include a link here, the previous link was a long time earlier.)
• Utah historian Thomas G. Alexander, writing in 1978 To avoid confusion, can orig-date=1978 be added to the citation?
• In 1970, director Bo Widerberg created a biopic on Hill's life, while a 1979 Swedish postage stamp honored his 100th birthday. While I'm sure Widerberg was working in 1970, the film came out in 1971, and 1971 is the date that's emphasized in Rosemont as well. I'm not sure this is a "while" link while we're here, just an "and".
• Hampton, John (1986). Guerilla Minstrels: John Lennon, Joe Hill, Woody Guthrie, Bob Dylan "Guerrilla". Also, isn't the author Wayne Hampton? That's what Amazon claims at least.
• Fur, Gunlög (1989). "The Making of a Legend: Joe Hill and the I.W.W.". Swedish-American Studies Optional: This is what Project MUSE uses now... but... apparently the journal was called "Swedish-American Historical Quarterly" in 1989 this article was published. I would generally suggest using the name at the time, but it's fine either way.

Verified a bunch of claims from Foner & Rosemont, so looks good. Will continue. SnowFire (talk) 00:49, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Natural Dis-tinction Un-natural Selection

Nominator(s): ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:45, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Natural Dis-tinction is the first in a trio of end-career Alexander McQueen collections linked by their complex digital prints and anti-industrial messaging. Mostly remembered as a clear stepping stone to the much better-known Plato's Atlantis, Natural Dis-tinction was nevertheless a success in its own right. It sparked a trend for complicated digital prints in fashion and was popular with celebrities on the red carpet. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:45, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Generalissima

Image review time! in terms of licenses:

• File:McQueen, Musée des beaux-arts - 39.jpg - good (thanks liliana)
• File:Lee Alexander McQueen & Ann Ray - Rendez-Vous 15.jpg - good (thanks elli)
• File:Alexander McQueen - Natural Dis-tinction Un-natural Selection SS 2009 - Look 24.jpg - good (thanks pmc)
• File:Lee Alexander McQueen & Ann Ray - Rendez-Vous 21.jpg - good
• File:Lee Alexander McQueen & Ann Ray - Rendez-Vous 33.jpg - good
• File:Camilla Belle 2009.jpg - good.

All images are suitable and informative given the subject. They are however missing alt-text; this isn't mandatory, so I will pass the IR, but you should add them. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 14:47, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Properly shamed, I have added alt text :) Thanks for the image review! ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:41, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments by Llewee

• "During his nearly twenty-year career, spanning 1992–2010," - It seems a bit odd to give two time ranges, I would suggest removing the second one.
  • Yeah that's fair, I went back and forth here. Ultimately I think I'd prefer to keep the year range but I'll have to do an AWB run to fix it across the whole topic, so bear with me.
    • This is now done across the entire article range.
      • Yes, sorry, I meant to keep the year range.--Llewee (talk) 15:33, 21 September 2026 (UTC)
• "featured a dress made with taxidermied hawks positioned as though attacking the model" - I think "accessorised with" or "made of" would be a better phrase here.--Llewee (talk) 19:06, 16 September 2026 (UTC)
  • It's neither though. "Accessorised" implies an accessory that can be removed, like jewellery or a hat. "Made of" implies that the whole dress is made of them. This is...well, here's a photo. See what I mean? Made with, not of, and they're tied into the fabric, so not accessories.
• "Two distinct phases of designs..." I think this sentence would fit better at the start of the next paragraph.
  • How? It's the thesis sentence for the whole paragraph, which goes on to describe the phases.
    • It felt more fluent to me to introduce the "two distinct phases" at the start of the paragraph about the first of those phases but it is not a massive issue either way.--Llewee (talk) 20:53, 21 September 2026 (UTC)
      • Ah, sorry, I forgot I'd reused this exact phrasing in the lead and the body; I thought you were referring to the lead originally, my bad. Although I do still think it works better where it is.
• "evoking imagery of scientific specimens kept beneath glass," - The phrase "imagery of" doesn't seem to be really needed. I wonder if there might be a page you could link to elaborating on "scientific specimens kept beneath glass".
  • I've trimmed. There's not really a good general link. Both Botanical specimen and Zoological specimen are too specific; the source is more general.
• "on buildings like the Eiffel Tower or a photograph by Dan Holdsworth" - Were these buildings "buildings like the Eiffel Tower" also famous landmarks? Could you also be more specific about what the Holdsworth photograph depicted?--Llewee (talk) 20:07, 16 September 2026 (UTC)
  • Have tweaked to "such as" but unfortunately nobody else goes into any detail of what any other buildings were. Went back and the source mentions a mountain from the Holdsworth photo, so put that in.
• "McQueen's typical runway theatrics were absent." - I think this could perhaps be a bit more specific.
  • The Background already states he was known for bombastic runway shows; it's hard to be more specific without getting into the weeds.
• "Forty-one looks were presented in roughly two phases..." - This and the next paragraph seem to overlap quite a bit with parts of the "Concept and collection" section.--Llewee (talk) 20:47, 16 September 2026 (UTC)
  • There's inevitably going to be some overlap, because the collection is inextricably linked with the runway show and vice versa. If I trim any more, the Runway show section will be about a sentence long, and that's no good.
    • @PMC, I'm going to be firmer on this point. We can't repeat information purely to pad out sections of the article. The first paragraph under show, the number of looks and the point about Kershaw fainting can be kept. Maybe a sentence explaining the distinction between the two phases can also be included, but everything else should be deleted or moved to the "concept and collection" section.--Llewee (talk) 21:12, 21 September 2026 (UTC)
      • And Mcqueen's rabbit costume can stay, I forgot about that. :)--Llewee (talk) 21:14, 21 September 2026 (UTC)
        • I don't agree with this suggestion, I'm sorry. The content is not there to pad anything out, but to describe the show, which is part of the topic. Therefore a description of it is necessary in order to be comprehensive. (This kind of description is pretty typical for other McQ articles I've done). I've revised it to add some more detail so it's more clearly a description of the runway show, including moving the para about the manta ray outfit into here (from its previous home in Reception). Hopefully that helps, unfortunately because this one is a boring show, it's kind of a boring section, but that one's on McQueen for being lame.
• "collections of natural and historical objects that were the precursor to modern museum" - either "the" should be added before "modern" or "museum" should be changed to "museums"
  • This one is a pure fuckup lol
• "Actress Cate Blanchett wore a version of Look 39," - It seems a bit odd to not to link to her page Cate Blanchett.
  • Yup not sure why I missed that
• "Mario Testino photographed an editorial featuring a houndstooth skirt suit in 2009." - I'm a bit confused by this, presumably he didn't photograph a page from a magazine or newspaper.--Llewee (talk) 12:53, 18 September 2026 (UTC)
  • To photograph an editorial is to take the photos that go in the editorial; I think this one's reasonable as-is.

Llewee, thanks for the comments, I've made some changes and intend to get to that AWB run for the dates shortly. Let me know if you have further thoughts, cheers! ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:01, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

• Llewee, I've replied to your comment above. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:37, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

  I am happy to support the nomination but would prefer it passes a source review before being promoted.--Llewee (talk) 00:53, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

  All articles require a source review to pass FAC, but if you have any specific concerns, I'd be happy to hear them out. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:56, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

  It wasn't intended as a criticism, I was just emphasising that I haven't looked at the sources. Llewee (talk) 17:58, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

  No criticism taken. The phrasing "I would prefer" seemed to indicate that you had concerns or weren't aware of the source review requirement so I figured I would cover all bases. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:13, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

SC

Just a small number of comments from me (following a couple of tweaks I made earlier):

• There shouldn't be a hyphen in "brightly-coloured", per MOS:HYPHEN
  • Fixed
• Was it a "fainting spell"? The text only says she fainted once, which I don't think we can describe as a "spell"
  • Fair, I've subbed "incident"
• There shouldn't be a hyphen in "fully-realised", per MOS:HYPHEN
  • Fixed
• 'space-age Noah’s Ark."' should be 'space-age Noah’s Ark".', with the full stop outside the quote marks per WP:LQ
  • Fixed

That's all from me - another nice article. Nice work PMC. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 15:32, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

• • Thanks Schro, I've made the fixes ♠PMC♠ (talk) 21:31, 24 September 2026 (UTC)
• Support. All good from me. - SchroCat (talk) 03:30, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Sideshow Bob

Nominator(s): Fengrímur (talk) 12:45, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about Sideshow Bob, the recurring antagonist and sinister genius from The Simpsons. It was previously a featured article and was delisted in 2024. Since then, I've addressed the concerns raised at FAR and kept working on the article well beyond that. The byte count — 344,339 — is very misleading: much of it comes from citations and other wikitext formatting. I think the article is really pleasant to read and review. I will make sure to promptly address any concerns you may have! :o Fengrímur (talk) 12:45, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

@Boneless Pizza! Hello! Since you initiated the FAR that led to the article's delisting, I thought I'd ping you here in case you'd be interested in taking a look. Fengrímur (talk) 08:21, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments from DaniloDaysOfOurLives

• I support this becoming a FA again! The only issue is that I strongly believe that "Dr" and "PHD" should be removed from the opening sentence - particularly the latter - as he is a fictional character and is not actually a Dr and does not have a PHD. If he was known as "Dr Sideshow Bob" or something (like Dr Hibbert), it would be different, but he is not. Since it is sourced, it could be mentioned briefly in the prose instead? Which would bring the benefit of moving the source from the lead to the prose, which is better. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 09:54, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  May I ask why exactly? Not only are there two decent secondary sources, but it is also canon within the series, as Sideshow Bob sometimes introduces him that way. I could add that as an additional reference as well... This is actually one of the few things that were mostly unchanged even when the article grew from 65,000 bytes to 344,339. Edit: Source two applies to Jr. as well, so even without his academic title, it would probably still require at least one reference there. I do agree, though, that lead citations aren't ideal. However, adding his title to the infobox, or possibly to the first paragraph of "Appearances" where his name is first mentioned in the body, would likely leave the reader wondering, "Why wasn't this mentioned above?" I could make it say "Sideshow Bob" only and then add a note in the lead that additionally identifies his titles while explaining that they rarely play a role—probably with episode citations. But it's usually done exactly as the article currently does it; see Krusty the Clown, for example. Fengrímur (talk) 11:41, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  @DaniloDaysOfOurLives _{(I forgot to ping you earlier.)} Fengrímur (talk) 14:06, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Hexham Abbey high-altar cross

Nominator(s): Usernameunique (talk) 04:00, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

The Hexham Abbey high-altar cross is, well, the cross that sits atop the high altar at Hexham Abbey. It is a striking piece: nearly three feet tall, glowing gold, and adorned with a central enamel-and-crystal boss. Made by the Keswick School of Industrial Art, it was unveiled on Good Friday in 1902.

I created the article earlier this year, after which it passed a good-article review with thanks to Tim riley—himself closely connected to the Keswick area. Since then, the abbey and its volunteers have been extraordinarily helpful. They supplied copies of the parish magazines discussing the piece, and went out of their way to commission professional-quality photographs—a vital addition to an article on a visual piece such as this. With those added, the piece is ready to be nominated here. --Usernameunique (talk) 04:00, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

UC

Will pop in here when I get a chance -- at least initially, to have a look at the Latin. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 09:37, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

• the cross was donated to the church by a parishioner in 1902, and unveiled on Good Friday.: a small thing, but I'd be reassured by "that year" or similar, if that's the case.

• Done. --Usernameunique (talk) 15:33, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

• Ad gloriam Dei et in memoriam / Henrici Roberti Harrison / Qui obiit anno salutis MDCCCCV / Suae aetatis XXIV", translating to "To the Glory of God and in Memory of Henry Robert Harrison / Who Died in the Year of Salvation 1905 / Aged 24".: why all the capital letters in English? I can understand following the Latin convention and capitalising the first letter of each line, but e.g. "Memory", "Died", seem odd.

• I think I was just following the source, although even that's a bit inconsistent (it doesn't capitalize the "m" in "memory"). I've adjusted it to To the glory of God and in memory of Henry Robert Harrison / Who died in the year of salvation 1905 / Aged 24. --Usernameunique (talk) 15:36, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

• We then have quite a different capitalisation strategy in A.D.G.M. In Memory of / Terence Atkinson M.B.E. Obit 18-11-1994".

• Decapitalized "Memory" and Obit (which, incidentally, is indeed obit rather than obiit—the form that the earlier candlesticks take). --Usernameunique (talk) 15:41, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

• Is it definitely ADGM, not the more usual form, AMDG?

• Yes. You can see a photo here. --Usernameunique (talk) 15:41, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

• Ad Deo Gloriam Majorem: Dei ("of God") is the usual form.

• Is Deo incorrect, or just non-standard? The source states that "A.D.G.M. = Ad Deo Gloriam Majorem – To the Greater Glory of God". With that said, the source is the abbey's website, which is not necessarily the most reliable for Latin grammar. --Usernameunique (talk) 15:48, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

I had a Google around: it's highly unusual. See e.g. our article on the phrase, Ad maiorem Dei gloriam. However, there are a few old works of theology (stick it into Google Books to see) which definitely use Deo and, being written in Latin, fairly clearly know the difference. If this were me, I'd suggest that nobody knows for sure which form of the abbreviation was meant (presumably, it was only ever written down in abbreviated form), and so the overwhelming probability is the normal one: "ad Dei gloriam maiorem". But I think the current approach is defensible, particularly as it cites a source that's directly connected to the cross, whereas anything else would be at least slightly WP:SYNTH, and of course in either case the meaning is the same. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 16:06, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Interesting. So we have a non-standard acronym, and a non-standard spelling. I'm inclined to think that these are akin to the kerning on Pope Francis's grave marker—not necessarily incorrect, but also not intentional. But given that (a) they don't appear to be per se incorrect, and (b) (unlike with said kerning) there is not a source discussing it, perhaps it is better to, as you suggest, let sleeping idiosyncrasies lie. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:25, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Yes, I think I agree. Incidentally, the AMDG acronym is quite strongly associated with the Jesuits, which makes it somewhat conspicuous in a CofE church -- I wonder if there's a story there, but suspect it won't be one that's easily found in print. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 18:28, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks, UndercoverClassicist. Responses above. --Usernameunique (talk) 15:53, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

A couple more:

• The cross comprises a concave base, long shaft, arms, and a head: personal taste, perhaps, but the inconsistency of adding "a" reads oddly to me: I'd do "a long shaft".

• Ditched the last "a". --Usernameunique (talk) 17:20, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• The cross was purchased from the Keswick School by Dorothy Oswald Head: the citation doesn't seem to support this: it simply gives her name, but even then, it's "Dorothy, widow of the late John Oswald Head", so doesn't tell us whether "Oswald" was part of their mutual surname or his middle name. We then call her "Oswald" in efn 1, which doesn't make much sense to me. Was that her maiden name?

• Good catch. Looks like her surname was just Head; that's how it's styled in two memorials that she erected (1 & 2). Now fixed. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:22, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• How are we doing capitalisation in the titles of cited works? At the moment it's quite inconsistent. "As the source does it" is generally not a good approach (MOS:CONFORM).

• Well, how we are doing it is different from how we were doing it. It's now in title case, per MOS:TITLECAPS. --Usernameunique (talk) 17:26, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

* Similarly, the ampersand in 14 should be "and".

• Ampersands are an exception to MOS:CONFORM (see the last bullet). Also, per MOS:&, retain an ampersand when it is a legitimate part of ... the title of a work. --Usernameunique (talk) 15:25, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• MOS:POSTNOMINALS: In general, and especially outside the first sentence of a person's biography, we don't include postnominals with someone's name. See in memory of her husband Terence Atkinson, MBE, and Her husband, John Oswald Head, JP, was a churchwarden . If it's really important that John Oswald Head was a magistrate, we can say "John Oswald Head, a justice of the peace".

• There's some nuance here. For starters, MOS:POSTNOMINALS actualy emphatically says the exact opposite of your statement: post-nominal letters may be included in any part of the article other than the lead sentence. But this is only a guideline, of course, and we both seem to agree that there are times when, even in the lead, post-nominals can be useful (as with Alan Wace on your side and Peter van Geersdaele on mine—and we both have further examples). The guideline gives even more leeway when an article refers to someone other than the article's subject, including other special circumstances. Here, particularly because neither Atkinson nor Head have their own articles, using the MBE and JP serve as an efficient way to indicate levels of moderate local prominence—relevant to a reader's likely question of "why are these dudes relevant enough to have received such visible memorials"—without a deep and tangential dive into who they were. --Usernameunique (talk) 18:15, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

I think that passes the bar of reasonability: I'd do it differently, but as a co-participant here would say, I'm me and you're you, and I can at least see that your approach makes a case for "special circumstances" within the meaning of the MoS. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 18:42, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• Praising Maryon's "skilful" design, both papers termed the interlace design "exquisite", and the cross "pleasingly proportional in appearance" and "worthy of a place on the Communion table of the fine and interesting old Hexham Abbey: they both used exactly the same words for all of this? I'm planning to have a flick through the BNA sources later, but my immediate worry is that these are simply the same article published in several local papers, which was very common in the period.

• The article already addresses this, introducing the article by stating that In a similar column the following week, The Newcastle Daily Journal ... They are similar, but not identical; the impetus of the earlier article was the finishing of the cross, and the impetus of the second the presentation of the cross. The second probably started with the first, then added some details (and removed a few). --Usernameunique (talk) 15:39, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• and a Victoria tablet.: what's a Victoria tablet?

• Looks like it was a memorial tablet for Queen Victoria, who died the prior year. It was made for St Michael's Church on Burleigh Street, although who knews where it is now—the church was ripped down a few years later. If of interest, here's the full list of items from the source. With a single exception, every item appears to be a specific commission—and that exception (a silver jug) was bought by Queen Alexandra, which explains its inclusion. Per the source: Mrs Rawnsley enumerated some of the most important pieces of work done during the year. Among them were:—a large cross for Hexham Abbey, the silver casket for H.R.H. the Princess Louise, a processional cross for a church in Leeds, a large tablet in connection with Kendal Savings Bank, two tablets in Crosthwaite Church, silver jug bought by the Queen, gold cross for Whitelands College Rose Queen, challenge shield for Morecambe, the Victoria tablet. They were going to make a tablet to be inlaid in the floor near Poet's Corner, Westminster Abbey, to record the new west window in memory of the late Duke of Westminster. Mr Maryon's design had been submitted and accepted. Many of these—perhaps most— are pieces for which additional information can be found, such as the casket and the Westminster tablet. --Usernameunique (talk) 19:43, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• As of 2026, the cross and the candlesticks remain on Hexham Abbey's high altar: for works in museums, we don't generally say e.g. "the vase is on public display" (I think there's a MoS or WikiProject guidance page somewhere), because there's a high chance of displays being changed from day to day. I'm not sure that applies here, but I'll raise it in case others think it a problem.

• The guideline of which you're thinking is Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Visual_arts#Museums and collections: For works belonging to permanent public collections, avoid "... currently resides in", "is currently in the Louvre", "is on display at", "is located in", "is in the collection of", and similar phrases. I think there are several differences here. First, we're not dealing with a permanent public collection; we're dealing with an active church. Second, the sentence in the article informs us that this is still the functional high-altar cross for Hexham Abbey, which is more relevant knowledge than whether an object is not just owned by a museum, but is also on active display. Third, the use of {{as of}} tempers any remaining concerns. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:37, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• Alt text -- this needs to make at least some effort, in my view, at conveying to a non-sighted reader (or one whose internet connection can't display the pictures, which includes, for example, many schools) what a sighted reader will see in the picture. The alt for the infobox image, for example, is simply "refer to caption" -- it doesn't actually have a caption, but the closest thing is the title, "Hexham Abbey high-altar cross". If there's a reason to include the images beyond demonstrating that the object(s) exist, then the alt text should convey some of that.

• Funnily enough, after our repartee here, I was actually thinking of you when I put in the alt text in the gallery and lead image. My thinking on those is that there is already a detailed description of the cross and candlesticks in the article; detailing alt text such as "a three-foot tall cross with a concave base, long shaft, arms, and head, with an enamelled red boss surrounded by seven crystals sitting in the centre" would thus be redundant. But I do agree that a few of them were inadequate, such as for the photos of the Hawell Monument and the abbey's interior; those are now expanded. I've also expanded the alt text in the gallery—not to make it descriptive of the works, but to make it clear what they show. --Usernameunique (talk) 18:49, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• A minor worry in sourcing: we have a lot of Ian Bruce's book, then a lot of more-or-less primary newspapers and magazines, then a few pages from the Abbey's website -- but none of the "normal" FAC sourcing fare of up-to-date, scholarly academic works. Has this object (or for that matter the Keswick School) not made it into anything scholarly published in the C20th?

• I would consider Bruce scholarly, and that's published in the 21st. This isn't a piece like the Royal Gold Cup where we're going to have a wealth of books, articles, and the like, but the reliable sources that we have are in the article. --Usernameunique (talk) 20:05, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• On Bruce's book itself, it doesn't have an ISBN -- does that raise a concern as far as the R of RS is concerned? It looks like the sort of more-or-less self-published local history book you see at every village fete: what are the chances that it's undergone scrutiny equivalent to academic peer review? Bruce himself (is it this guy?) is a painter and a musician rather than an art historian, which again raises question-marks for me.

• It's a deeply researched piece and one of the most substantial studies of the school. See, for example, this review in the Journal of William Morris Studies, and the inclusion of the book in a number of major art libraries (OCLC 80891576). There isn't much information available on Bruce—but no, he's not that painter and musician, who was 17 when the book was published. --Usernameunique (talk) 17:18, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Not sure I'm convinced -- the Journal of William Morris Studies has a pretty restricted brief, so I'm not sure I'd take a review in there as a sign that a work is generally considered to stand as a respected work of scholarship in its field. Nor is the review entirely positive, though it does end up recommending the book. I don't think the fact that it's included in big university or gallery libraries is really here or there: most of those libraries are pretty big and will want to have all the material in their field that could possibly be relevant to a future researcher; university libraries don't only select good books. I'd be more comfortable if we knew something about Bruce, and (the gold standard) if we could find this work cited in good academic publications. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:33, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Bruce, apropos of post-nominals, is a fellow of the Royal Society of Arts (source), so that gets us somewhere. I've searched fairly extensively before—I would very much like to solicit him for some information—finding much further information. (Well, I did just find a talk by him postdating when I did my last search, so maybe that will help get in contact.) As for citations, a search for "Loving Eye and Skilful Hand" "Bruce" on Google Books turns up a number of hits; same with Archive.org. The thing to keep in mind is that this book is about a niche aspect (the KSIA) of a niche subject (the Arts and Crafts Movement). There are not many sources to begin with (the other that comes to mind is Pudney 2000 from The Silver Society Journal—see full cite in Herbert Maryon), and not many sources citing them. Incidentally, that source discussing Bruce says that the book is is the first detailed study of the Keswick School of Industrial Arts. It truly is a deep dive, with substantial research into the archives of the school. --Usernameunique (talk) 21:07, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Also, responding to the point you added about libraries: I tend to agree with you as a general point. But here, I was thinking of its inclusion in research libraries, such as the Met's Watson Library, the V&A's National Art Library, or those at the MFA Boston or MFAH. --Usernameunique (talk) 21:14, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Relatively little to complain about here: a fine, short article, with some impressive work on the newspaper sources. I'd like to give those a proper check when I can. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 06:43, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for again stopping by with a review, UndercoverClassicist. Responses to all are now above. --Usernameunique (talk) 20:07, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Support from Tim riley

It has been a pleasure to return to this article, last seen at GAN. I said then that I hoped it would go on to FAC, and am pleased to see it here now. The new pictures are exceptionally fine and the text is thoroughly readable and to the point. The only quibble I can come up with is that to my eye "Herbert Maryon was hired as the first director..." strikes an odd note: "hired" suggests something temporary; "was appointed" might be more suitable, perhaps, but I do not press the point. In my view the article meets all the FA criteria and I hope to see it on our front page in due course. Tim riley talk 10:49, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks very much again, Tim riley. Agreed that "was appointed" is better, and have edited accordingly. --Usernameunique (talk) 15:32, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• I'll review this one. Comments to follow. MSincccc (talk) 11:13, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Support Comments from Jim

I've written FAs on two English churches and a non-chapel, so this interested me. I'd guess that if Tim riley has reviewed it there will be slim pickings for the rest of us, but comments in due course Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:22, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

As expected, no major issues, so the following are just suggestions, since I'll support anyway.

• Celtic design of an endless knot— perhaps Celtic knot?

• Done. --Usernameunique (talk) 14:54, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• Perhaps link clockcase to grandfather clock?

• Done. --Usernameunique (talk) 14:55, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• she bought a silver spoon designed by Isobel McBean and made by Robert Temple, and a silver jug designed and made by the latter.— I'm not convinced that this attempt to avoid a repeat works, especially as the referent is an adjectival clause, not a noun. I'd prefer and a silver jug designed and made by Temple.

• Yeah, that was a bit awkward. Done. --Usernameunique (talk) 14:55, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• Princess Charles perhaps just straight to Maud of Wales, no everyone understands the weird world of British royal titles.

• Sure, done. --Usernameunique (talk) 14:57, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

That's all, Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:06, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks very much, Jimfbleak. Incorporated all your comments. --Usernameunique (talk) 14:57, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Source review (RandomEdits)

Signing up for a source review; I should be able to do this this weekend but feel free to ping me if its not completed by the end of that! RandomEditsForWhenIRemember (talk) 09:43, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments from RoySmith

I'm all for good photos to illustrate articles, but I think the gallery under "Candlesticks" goes overboard. Most of these photos don't add anything important and have no obvious connection to specific passages of text. See WP:GALLERY.

• Thanks, RoySmith. WP:GALLERY states that Some subjects easily lend themselves to image-heavy articles for which image galleries are suitable, such as ... the visual arts. We're in that category here. This came up in the FAC review for serpent labret with articulated tongue—where there are two galleries—and the consensus came out that, particularly for visual-arts articles, galleries are fine. (When I did the math in that article, incidentally, 15 of 70 FAs on paintings had secondary galleries, not just galleries of the object.)

Moreover, beyond just being visually striking—we're in the privileged position of having a gallery of excellent, high-resolution photos, not just a bunch of iPhone snaps—the photos tease out some details for which text is insufficient. This is perhaps most evident with the various interlace patterns; the sources say only that there are such patterns, not how their twists and turns unfold (something that would be incredibly difficult to describe textually). The different angles in the gallery, however, make these visible. (Indeed, I currently have a request at the illustration workshop to use the photos to create an SVG rendering of the patterns on the front of the cross—something for which the photographs are necessary.) --Usernameunique (talk) 20:30, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Oh, I forgot to mention in the above that I did make the gallery photos smaller—they were, to be fair, pretty large. I also put them in a self-contained "Gallery" subsection. --Usernameunique (talk) 03:44, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Noleander

• Looks like an excellent article overall, but I'm puzzled by the lack of specificity about the materials used in the cross:

• For the metal the article says "It is made primarily of metal ..." Is it gold? gold-plated silver? copper? brass? bronze? Elsewhere the article says the benefactor donated " ... a gold cross for Whitelands College .." so perhaps the Hexham cross is gold? On the other hand there is a footnote that says "Amongst other activities she cared for the altar linen and brasses." To add to the confusion, the article is within Category:Silver sculptures. As a Featured Article, it should specify the metal. And if the sources are silent, it should have an efn explanatory footnote at the first mention of "metal" in the body text that tells the reader that the type of metal is uncertain.

• Same for the crystals. Article says "... surrounded by seven crystals sits in the...". The word "cystal" is ambiguous; it could mean (see crystal (disambiguation)):
  • crystal - mineral crystals like quartz; or
  • lead crystal - glass doped with lead

Why should readers have to guess what kind of crystal it is? A curious reader that types "crystal" in the WP search bar will get taken to a page about quartz and diamonds. On the other hand, lead crystal, like Waterford crystal, is very common in UK decorative arts. If the sources are silent, the article should have an explanatory footnote stating that. And a link to crystal or lead crystal should be included somewhere in the article.

• It looks like a great article overall, but I'm going to have to oppose until readers are given some clarity. To be a Featured Article it must specify the metal kind, and disambiguate "crystal" (and provide a wikilink). Alternatively, add explanatory footnotes stating that that those materials are uncertain. If there is no published source on the materials, can you send an email to Hexham Abbey and ask them? Noleander (talk) 13:35, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  Hi Noleander, thanks for your comments. As you presage, the reason these are not specified is because the sources are silent. As for crystal, I assume it is lead crystal, given the Arts and Crafts context. As for metal, I assume brass (in part because of the altar linen and brassess line you quote), but it could be another alloy. I would not assume it's silver (and disclaim liability for the addition of that category, which I've now removed) although, adding to the confusion, the abbey's page on the cross says both metalwork and silver.

  To your question about emailing the abbey, yes, I can—but we wouldn't exactly be able to use "Email from Hexham Abbey to Wikipedia user" as a reliable source.

  Where does that leave us? Unless you have other ideas, I guess with adding a footnote saying that more precise information is not in the sources. --Usernameunique (talk) 15:22, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  @Usernameunique - Yes, I think an explanatory footnote is a good starting point. The goal is to minimize reader confusion. Although it is somewhat uncommon, there is nothing wrong with an encyclopedia saying "The specific type of metal and crystal is not documented" or similar.

  As for emailing the Abbey, you should definitely do that. Maybe it will lead to written sources that describe the materials. The email reply itself may be an acceptable RS for WP, depending on who authors the reply. Many top-quality academic articles and books rely on sources identified as "Personal communication from .. [some person]" and such sources are common and accepted in academia. Noleander (talk) 16:34, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  Thanks, Noleander. I'll email them, and think of an appropriate footnote in the meantime. Believe me, I'm all for soliciting extra information, and do it regularly. But, as for citing said emails, we would run up against several policies, including that a reliable source must be published (per WP:PUBLISH, this excludes email messages or other forms of personal communication sent only to you or a small number of people), and perhaps ones concerning original research and primary/secondary sources. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:45, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  Let me know what the Abbey says. Thanks for the link to WP:PUBLISH, I was not aware of that informational page. Note that WP:LOCALCONSENSUS says that guidelines can sometimes be overridden in specific articles if there is local consensus. Local consensus cannot override major policies such as WP:BLP. But WP:PUBLISH is merely an informational page which "... is not a Wikipedia policy or guideline; rather, its purpose is to explain certain aspects of Wikipedia's norms or practices. It may reflect varying levels of consensus." The last phrase is important, because its guidance is probably not a "broad community consensus" that is inviolate. So WP:LOCALCONSENSUS may permit a group of editors to decide that an email is a reliable source (for the limited purpose of establishing the crosses' material). IMHO. Noleander (talk) 17:10, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  I would not consider "Personal communication from..." to meet WP:RS unless there were some way of authenticating and keeping that communication on record. It's a fairly basic principle of WP:V that another editor should, at least in principle, always be able to verify the sources cited in an article. WP:PUBLISH might be an information page but WP:V is a key policy. I don't see how this proposal would be compatible with even its first few sentences:

  In the English Wikipedia, verifiability means that people can check that facts or claims correspond to reliable sources. Wikipedia's content is determined by published information rather than editors' beliefs, experiences, or previously unpublished ideas or information. Even if you are sure something is true, it must have been published in a reliable source before you can add it ... Source material must be published, on Wikipedia meaning made available to the public in some form.

  UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 17:17, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  Yeah, you're right. What if the email was from an authority figure within the Abbey, and they consented to having their email published, and the email was deposited in Wiki Commons or WikiSource? Noleander (talk) 17:40, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  The more efficient solution, if possible, would probably be to get them to edit their webpage on the cross to add the material. --Usernameunique (talk) 17:52, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  Maybe it is solid gold and they are deliberately keeping it vague to deter thievery :-) Noleander (talk) 17:53, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  Hah! When we got this photo recently, I found it interesting to see that they have security wires to deter would-be thieves (or at least ones without wire cutters). And real gold or no, not all thieves are the brightest. --Usernameunique (talk) 18:00, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  I'm with Neo and UC. Personal communication just won't do. RoySmith-Mobile (talk) 19:40, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  https://memorials.iwm.org.uk/memorial/34070 says they are wood, painted "a gold color". It also gives a different wording for the inscription on the cross. RoySmith (talk) 14:34, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

  RoySmith, that's about a different cross and different candlesticks installed at a different time in a different part of the abbey, and commemorating different people. The high-altar cross is definitely metal; one can see (as one of the volunteers pointed out to me when he took an initial set of photographs) streaks of metal polish from an over-zealous cleaning. --Usernameunique (talk) 14:55, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

  OK, that makes sense. If I zoom in enough on the iwm.org image, I can see that it's not the same one. RoySmith (talk) 16:35, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

  Here's the abbey's page on that cross. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:43, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Noleander, the update (from one of the abbey's conservation volunteers) is that they assume the cross and candlesticks are brass with a lacquer finish (since they require minimal cleaning for dust and fingerprints), but that they will check their files and follow up. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:44, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

I'm on tenterhooks ! Noleander (talk) 17:25, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

As am I...! Usernameunique, Noleander, are we any further forward with this? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:04, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

We are still waiting for additional documentation. See the comments from user Johnbod immediately below. Noleander (talk) 10:18, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Comments from Johnbod

• Hmmm - really it is a bit unwise to put up for FAC a piece of metalwork where you don't know the actual metals used, or whether one of the main decorative elements is rock crystal (ie quartz, more likely I'd say) or the marketing bullshit term crystal glass, just like wine glasses of any degree of poshness. The first two sentences are therefore missing the most basic information on materials one would expect, and the "comprehensiveness" criterion must be in question.

• We're necessarily limited by the sources. Otherwise, topics such as anyone in Category:Anonymous artists, or any portrait on an unknown sitter, would be automatically barred from being able to reach FA. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:21, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Not really, especially if there was (as is often the case) inconclusive scholarly discussion of who the artist or sitter was. The comparable case would be a surviving painting where the technique or support, or even size, was undescribed in the article. And I think FA would be out of reach in such a case. Johnbod (talk) 23:17, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Presumably it is hollow? No depth is given; how thick is it? No weight either.

• Presumably. This source gives us only height and width, but at least the photos give enough angles so that one can ballpark the rest. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:30, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Is it gilded? Seems far more likely than solid gold, & little polishing would then be needed (or wanted).

• There's discussion of this in the review immediately above. In short, it's probably brass with a lacquer finish, but the volunteers at the abbey are going to try to confirm. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:23, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Whatever the walking guide says, bringing the Maltese cross in is not helpful or accurate. The cross here lacks the two pointed branches at the end of each of the four arms, which are defining for the Maltese type, giving 8 points in total. It's much more like a Iron Cross-style Cross pattée, in fact of the type "With the ends of the arms convex and curved; sometimes called cross alisée (French: croix pattée alésée arrondie, lit. 'rounded reamed patté')" according to our article.

• Not sure what you're referring to by the walking guide—the source here is two contemporaneous (and similar) newspaper articles. They state that The cross is what may be called a Latinised Maltese, inasmuch as the arms and head are slightly curved, and there is a long shaft. Thus, the elements that they think are evocative of a Maltese cross are the curved arms and head. With that said, reading the articles on Maltese cross and cross pattée, I take your point that the Hexham example is stylistically more similar to the latter. Without a source for cross pattée/alisée, I don't think we should expressly use those terms here. But I've reworded to "The cross combines elements of a Latin cross and those with curved arms and head" (and similar in the body), which (a) accurately reflects the specific elements of the cross that the sources describe, and (b) incorporates your point. --Usernameunique (talk) 17:23, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• I don't think Celtic Revival is mentioned or linked; clearly this is the crucial stylistic term.
• Generally seems ok, though spreading rather poor sources very thinly.
• Maybe more later. Johnbod (talk) 15:30, 28 September 2026 (UTC)
• You don't use Hexham Abbey, by W. T. Taylor, 56 pages, 1969. That might well have some of the basics you currently lack. Johnbod (talk) 16:08, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• I've requested it from a library by me and should be able to look on Friday or Saturday. --Usernameunique (talk) 17:27, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• Update: Make that next Friday/Saturday, as the library won't get the book until next week. Turns out it's stored at another of their institutions that ships books to them only once a week, rather than at their normal offsite facility. --Usernameunique (talk) 00:49, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Fadettes of Boston

Nominator(s): - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 15:47, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about... an all-women orchestra based in Boston, Massachusetts.

I believe it should be featured since it's no longer out of process, since the previous FAC I had closed more than two weeks ago, and I've managed to find virtually every source I could about the orchestra. This includes things I originally overlooked during the GAN, most notably, a legal case. - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 15:47, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

I'll get to archiving the links once I arrive home from lunch (edit: I did what I could. Please let me know if anything else needs archiving) - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 17:00, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• File:1906_Keiths_TremontSt_Boston_USA_byDetroitPublishingCo_LC.jpg: when and where was this first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:28, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

The source of the image says around 1906, and it was taken in "Tremont Street, looking south, Boston, Mass." - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 01:34, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

The source says "Created/Published" 1906. Is it known for certain that it was published, not just created, at this time? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:36, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

I'm not sure right now. The LOC source says "Date Created/Published: c1906", but I'll look deeper - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 01:38, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

This Picryl link also says "created/published". Should I remove the image from the article? (Edit: or should I edit the image caption accordingly?) - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 01:40, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Editing the caption wouldn't help. The options are to find a publication that will confirm that the current tagging is correct; find an alternative tagging that can be confirmed; or replace the image. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:55, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

I'll plug the image into Google Lens again soon. I looked at the image on Keith's Theatre, but it has the same issue - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 01:58, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Come to think of it, all the images in LOC have this weird "created/published" format. See here for an example... - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 02:00, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

I replaced the image with another one. Please let me know if I should remove the replacement image instead - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 02:18, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria hi! It's been 11 days since you last offered any feedback. Is there anything else you'd like to add, or is the image all good? - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 15:19, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Images are good to go. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:46, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Older nominations

Rei Ayanami

Nominator(s): Z. Patterson (talk) 02:38, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

Co-nominator: TeenAngels1234

This article is about Rei Ayanami, a fictional character in Neon Genesis Evangelion and its franchise. Hideaki Anno's readings of psychology and Yoshiyuki Sadamoto's inspirations from The Snow Goose and Aoki Uru influenced the character's creation. In the series, she is a fellow mecha pilot of Shinji Ikari and Asuka Langley Soryu and is revealed to be a clone of Shinji's mother, Yui Ikari, and an entity called Lilith. Critics generally reacted positively to her portrayal, and she was used as a model in Hiroki Azuma's database model presented in his book Otaku: Japan's Database Animals, where he posited that she influenced the creations of characters such as Ruri Hoshino in Martian Successor Nadesico. Critics compared Rei to subsequent characters.

In 2020, my co-nominator, TeenAngels1234, significantly expanded the article and brought it to good article status. Twofingered Typist copy edited the article, and Tintor2 reviewed the article. From late 2024 until mid-2026, I and TeenAngels1234, my co-nominator, worked together on improving the article's quality. In 2025, Mox Eden copy edited the article for the purposes of an FAC. Aoba47 reviewed the article in the first peer review in 2025; and Tintor2, Boneless Pizza!, and RoySmith provided their insights in the second peer review in 2026. We would like to thank these editors for their assistance in getting this article to this featured article candidacy, including Twofingered Typist, who is now deceased. Z. Patterson (talk) 02:38, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

Image Review

Most of the images look good with enough justification (or are just free to use) to me. However I would say Rei Ayanami Early Design Der Mond.jpeg's licensing box needs a stronger writeup because its extremely minimal at the moment. I think including the image is fine, its just the infobox doesn't make the case very well.

As an aside, there's a lot of dense text between Win-Lee's photo and the "Comparisons and symbolism" section. Another image to break up the text somewhere here would be ideal, but admittedly at a brief glance of the paragraphs nothing is jumping out to me for what to add. RandomEditsForWhenIRemember (talk) 09:10, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

Perhaps we could try placing two images side by side—one of Anno and one of Sigmund Freud in Development? We could also include an image of another Rei from the Rebuild series, but that would clearly be non-free.--TeenAngels1234 (talk) 17:42, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

I concur with using images of Anno and Freud and will go ahead and add those, but I do not believe another image of Rei is necessary. I wonder if we could also use File:Solitude.jpg at the beginning of the Characterization and themes section to illustrate her themes of solitude. Z. Patterson (talk) 00:11, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

@RandomEditsForWhenIRemember: I think I addressed your concern. I edited both the article and File:Rei Ayanami Early Design Der Mond.jpeg. @TeenAngels1234: Do you think it would be a good idea to add File:Working in the Rice Paddies in May.jpg in the second paragraph of the Rebuild of Evangelion subsection to illustrate Rei's role in Evangelion 3.0+1.0 Thrice Upon a Time? Z. Patterson (talk) 01:54, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Personally, I wouldn't add an image at this point. I tried an alternative for Characterization and themse: I found an image from the Bosnian War, which Azuma mentions in relation to Rei, that reminds me quite strikingly of the rows of identical, dilapidated apartment buildings where Rei lives, so I added that instead. I think it's more relevant to the text.--TeenAngels1234 (talk) 20:45, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

I agree with your decision. It seems to summarize the material more succinctly. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:49, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

SnowFire

Nice work. I'll take a look at this. Usual disclaimer goes here that comments are suggestions by default, not demands, and you should feel free to push back - if something's important I'll make it clear. Also, I don't have access to Anno's interviews, so will be trusting the sources here... although knowing Anno, this kind of thing is always tricky. Starting with the lede & "Creation and conception"...

• is a fictional character Nit: You will find a lot of articles that say "fictional character" but this is unnecessary and I think downstream of a 2008-2012 backlash against media content. Just "character" is fine, it's understood characters are fictional by default. (But optional, lots of articles include 'fictional' anyway.)

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:02, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• Angel - I get that you're trying to set off "angel" as a term with special meaning in Eva by italicizing it, but I'm not 100% certain italics are necessary here. This usage is not that different from vanilla angels, and the fact that in Eva they're antagonistic doesn't change that. Up to you, just a comment.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:02, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• His readings in psychology, particularly Freudian psychoanalysis, also influenced his conception of the character, with Freud's theory of the Oedipus complex serving as an inspiration. I think this is a bit vague at what's going on for casual readers for why exactly this might be an "inspiration." (And wouldn't it be more a concept, than a theory?) But I get that the lede needs to keep moving on.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:02, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• The character attracted considerable attention within the otaku community Two items. One, "Attracted attention" is vague. It could hypothetically mean attracting negative attention (although the rest of the sentence clears such a misconception up). Maybe some other phrasing? Second, and very optionally... same issue as angel above. Apparently the Wikipedia otaku article italicizes it, so you're being consistent, but I think the otaku article is wrong. Otaku is basically an English loanword now and is routinely not italicized, just like ramen or samurai (MOS:FOREIGNITALIC). Up to you.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 02:11, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Japanese scholar Hiroki Azuma used Rei as an example of his database theory, arguing that elements of her character design recurred in later anime, manga, and visual novels, even without direct reference to Evangelion. A few issues here. Strictly speaking - just how relevant is Azuma's "database theory" in general? I'm skeptical, but could be convinced. Lots of academics have pet theories they've named but very few are John von Neumann and game theory. However, regardless of that, I think "arguing" is vastly underselling the more important point here, on Rei's influence. All three of the mains of Eva were enormously popular and influential, and I'd be shocked if that couldn't be referenced. It'd be like saying "Joseph Campbell argued that Darth Vader was influential and referenced in later media." No, Darth Vader was influential, flat out as a fact, not really a debatable matter. I'd recommend just talking about that and cutting Azuma entirely for the lede, unless you really think that Azuma's thoughts are relevant, in which case I'd separate that into its own sentence.

I removed the sentence for now. It may be more appropriate for an abstract in a subsequent WikiJournal submission. Z. Patterson (talk) 02:11, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• He took her first name from Rei Hino of the anime and manga series Sailor Moon, Is it worth saying "the character Rei Hino"? Someone who doesn't know their JP character names might think she was named after a real person who worked as a voice actress or producer or some such for Sailor Moon.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:11, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• hoping to recruit one of the series' directors, Kunihiko Ikuhara, to work on Evangelion. Question: really? (Not asking for this to be removed if so! This just seems kinda crazy, but weird stuff happens.)

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:11, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• In Japanese, Rei can mean "zero" when written with the kanji Rei (零) I'm not trying to interrupt the flow with explaining every weird possible pun, but is it worth mentioning that 零 is not actually how Rei's name is written, either here or in a footnote?

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:28, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• According to writer Patrick Drazen, the name may also pun on her role as the pilot of Evangelion Unit-00 "Also"? Isn't this just the same thought continued from the previous sentence, or does Drazen tie it to some other reason than the kanji? I would also recommend removing "Writer" as including it makes it sound like Drazen was a writer for Eva, not just any person who published a book.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:28, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• Anno asked character designer Yoshiyuki Sadamoto to portray Rei as a depressed, reticent girl who speaks in a subdued voice Similar to the Sailor Moon issue above: just a really check? Anno asked an artist to draw someone speaking in a subdued voice? Possible but weird!

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:59, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• I'm gonna group a few of the same issue:
  • The song "Doko e demo ikeru kitte" (何処へでも行ける切手)  ; "Fumimi no kodomo" (福耳の子供) ; Shinseiki Evangelion: Eva to Yukai na Nakamatachi (新世紀エヴァンゲリオンエヴァと愉快な仲間たち; lit. 'Neon Genesis Evangelion: Eva and Good Friends') ; Kōshi Ankokuden (孔子暗黒伝, Dark Biography of Confucius)
  • This is again optional, but my understanding is that non-Latin characters in prose tends to make people tune out a bit. It's fine in charts or lists or when really important, but prose is tricky. I would consider using Template:Nihongo foot similar to the first sentence and hiding the Kanji + translation in a footnote.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 14:27, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Prose: originally designed Rei as a brunette vs. caption: Sadamoto originally designed Rei with dark hair . So which is it? That sketch looks more like black hair to me than brown hair. Or was it both and they just kept changing her hair color?

@TeenAngels1234: From what I can parse in Italian, the source it is citing confirms that she was indeed designed as a brunette. From what I see in Der Mond, her hair was changed to dark hair. If I understand this correctly, he changed Rei's hair color from brunette to a dark color, but I do not want to introduce information that is not specifically stated in the sources. Do you concur? Z. Patterson (talk) 03:05, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

I think you're over-reading this. Bruna in Italian simply means "dark (hair/skin/eyes)". It can be black or dark brown. That's why in Italian Wikipedia we simply wrote that Sadamoto originally designed Rei con gli occhi e i capelli scuri, with dark eyes and hair. In this context it simply means dark hair, so it includes black. TeenAngels1234 (talk) 14:14, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• Black also distinguished Rei from characters in contemporary series and ran counter to prevailing design trends This seems a bit more complex than necessary, and not even clearly true on the first part. If the Google Translate is correct, Sadamoto was just saying black stockings were not in fashion at the time (presumably in real life more so than other series).

I believe I addressed this and simplified the sentence. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:59, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• deep beneath Nerv headquarters Did Funimation change the terminology here? My recollection is that it was NERV in all capitals like NASA.

Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Evangelion/Archive 2#Vote on terminology standardization: NERV, SEELE, GEHIRN, N2 Mine and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Evangelion#NERV acronym. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:02, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

It's fine and not asking for a change, but I'm not super-sold on the argument used in 2008. No matter though. SnowFire (talk) 17:50, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• In the eighth episode, "Asuka Strikes!", for example, Any particular reason the 8th episode is given first, then the 7th episode? If there's a reason it's fine, but if it's arbitrary, it's easier to do chronological order.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 02:00, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

During production of the seventh episode, "A Human Work", Anno remembered Rei and added a scene for her. I think the tone is now off, though. Shouldn't the emphasis be something like "Rei appears only in one scene in the seventh episode, "A Human Work", after Anno remembered to add her" or the like? The slant is on Rei not appearing much, rather than appearing in a scene. SnowFire (talk) 17:50, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Done in Special:Diff/1377154423. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:03, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Anno himself said Maybe just cut to "Anno said"?

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:02, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• In the original script for the twenty-first episode, the first Rei clone survives Naoko Akagi's strangulation; after briefly losing consciousness, she awakens alone in an empty command room. For those who don't recall the episodes by heart - so what happens in the real script? (I know, I clicked the link and read it, she dies, but maybe make that clear here. This Rei's death is not the same as the "second clone's" death referred to in the next sentence.)

I added sources for the changes in the plot. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:05, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Is it worth moving Anno planned the second clone's death from the beginning later in the paragraph, closer to or after the "Rei III" sentence? Since that's where the second Rei's death happens, right? SnowFire (talk) 17:50, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Done at Special:Diff/1377136531. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:38, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Anno considered Rei's character arc essentially complete after her smile I'm not sold that's what the footnote'd quote is saying. It could just as easily be just re-affirming what we've already said, that Anno found it hard to write for Rei.

I removed the footnote and rephrased the sentence the footnote applied to. Z. Patterson (talk) 14:27, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

The larger concern I'm checking in on is the accuracy of the sentence rather than the referencing. I don't have access to this source, but just to clarify, the idea that Rei's character arc was "complete" is supported by some other line in the book? The original quote had a potential reading of "Anno wasn't certain where to go next with Rei" which is not quite the same as "Anno thought Rei's arc was complete." Again it's fine to keep it as-is if that's what the source says. SnowFire (talk) 17:50, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Please see the response from TeenAngels1234 below. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:30, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

• Anno compared Rei's development... This isn't a source review but strictly speaking this whole section needs a reference, not just a footnote'd quote with reference for that quote. I imagine it'd be very similar and citing the same interview, but still.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 14:27, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• and presented a new challenge: "I have to challenge something new." Is this quote really necessary? It seems like it's just repeating what we just said.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:59, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Hayashibara also auditioned for Asuka and Misato Katsuragi. Anno instead cast her as Rei This is unclear. Did she not audition for Rei? If so, cut "also". Did she audition for Rei? If so, cut "instead".

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:02, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• She recalled delivering Rei's short lines repeatedly to find the precise nuance the staff sought. I think something got lost in translation here? This sounds like every voice acting job, nobody does just 1 take for a line. If something more than "the usual" was going on here, say what it was.

I removed this sentence because it is routine for acting. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:05, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• Rei's role increased Hayashibara's popularity and helped establish her as an icon of anime fandom. I think the first half of this sentence undersells it. This was a big deal, iconic role, that "increase in popularity" doesn't communicate. Maybe just "Rei's role established her as an icon of anime fandom."

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:02, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• Shunsuke Nozawa, assistant professor at Hokkaido University - Is Hokkaido University really relevant here? Call him an anthropologist if he needs an introduction, where he works isn't that interesting.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:02, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

I don't see a change here? SnowFire (talk) 17:50, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

I thought I made the change before, but this change now appears at Special:Diff/1377115402. Z. Patterson (talk) 23:43, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• • Actually while we're on that note. This is not a source review, and it's good that there's a secondary source to cite so that this isn't too reliant on primary sources like interviews. But... this is formatted like a journal article rather than a blog post, but doesn't appear to have actually been published in a journal, just stuck on his website? Weird. Normally this is a bit of a warning sign as it means that the journals weren't biting for some reason, but I didn't attempt to chase this down further.

It is indeed a web page, even though it looks like a journal article. Z. Patterson (talk) 00:42, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• In contrast, Brina Palencia (right) voiced her in the Funimation dub of Rebuild of Evangelion. Cut "In contrast". This is just a normal fact, nothing contradictory about it.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:02, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

SnowFire (talk) 02:00, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

I am working on addressing the points you listed and will let you know when I think I addressed all of your points. Z. Patterson (talk) 03:03, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

I made some preliminary replies above. SnowFire (talk) 17:50, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Went ahead and checked the "Appearances" section next. Mostly looks good (disclaimer that I did not watch the later films and don't know much about the spinoff media)...

• Quanyu Liao of the Nanjing University of the Arts Same issue as Shunsuke Nozawa above - where this person works isn't that relevant. I'm not even sure they work there - a Google for "site:nua.edu.cn "Quan-yu Liao" and "Quanyu Liao" didn't turn up anything, although maybe it's only on the Chinese-language side of the website. But given how vague the affiliation is, it seems possible that they might be, say, a graduate student there or the like. I'm not sure if this person's specialty is known, so I'd go with just a raw name.

I removed university affiliations and instances of "writer" for people who were not involved in the production of Neon Genesis Evangelion. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:43, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• Erick Agung Yohanes, Nita Novianti, and Nia Nafisah of the Universitas Pendidikan Indonesia... Same issue again. (This is also a rather weak source, taking a look at it, but it's saying something pretty uncontroversial, so it's fine.)

Done. Please see above for reasoning. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:43, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• Writer Daichi Nakagawa Same issue as Patrick Drazen. I think "writer" should be used carefully in articles like this on TV shows - it's not really an interesting description of who they are, so either use some other description, or just have the name only, unless they were a writer-for-the-show.

Done. Please see above for reasoning. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:43, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• It gives her greater prominence than Asuka, who instead plays the more prominent role in the anime Nit: I might weakly suggest "It gives Rei greater prominence than Asuka, who plays the more prominent role in the anime", cutting "instead" and making the Rei / Asuka comparison more explicit.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:50, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

• Neon Genesis Evangelion RPG ... also includes Rei as a playable character. Can cut "also" here, this sentence isn't related to the previous one.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:50, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

SnowFire (talk) 17:50, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Looking at the next sections. Let me stress again that it's totally fine to push back if you disagree, since while I'm flattered you're going along with my suggestions above, that is not required or anything.

• Rei Ayanami is an enigmatic,[137] unhappy[138] and taciturn girl[139] with few social connections who readily follows orders.[140] She is introverted,[141][142] uncomplaining,[143] socially detached,[81] and aloof.[144] Just to be clear, this is a comment and I'm not even asking for a change here. But... in general, I'd associate this kind of word-by-word referencing with radioactively controversial topics where every adjective is fought over. Is that actually going on here? If the article is chill, I'd consider just throwing the refs at the end of the sentence. There's a few other heavily referenced sentences later too, just it definitely stands out here.

I addressed this sentence, and I believe I addressed similar later sentences. Z. Patterson (talk) 11:36, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Rei also confesses that she wants to die Another nit here, but is that the word the source uses? To be sure I can see a person raised in a tradition that rejects it as seeing suicidal ideation as a sin that requires confession, but I'm not sure that applies here. I'd only keep "confesses" if the author thinks Rei is in some sense embarrassed about this desire.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:59, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• Caption: Rei Ayanami was compared to the Shinto goddess Amaterasu (left) and the Christian figure of Mary, mother of Jesus Christ (right). First of all, "Christian" is linked to "Christianism" which is an uncommon term. But I don't think a link is required at all, nor for Shinto. If we have a picture of Amaterasu and Mary, those should be the only two wikilinks. Oddly enough, Jesus himself (not pictured) is linked, rather than Mary, mother of Jesus.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 02:04, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

• According to scholar Akiko Sugawa-Shimada, Rei's appearances in Neon Genesis Evangelion also helped establish a 1990s fan practice of watching episodes as they simultaneously communicate online, a mode of participation that later developed through 2-Channel and expanded globally with social networks such as X and YouTube. This is a real stretch. The wording makes it sound like livechat vs. a broadcast with "simultaneous" and ties it to Rei specifically, but I checked the source and that's not really what it says. Evangelion fans with access to an online communication service exchanged critical opinions, possible answers for unexplained parts of the narrative, and expressions of their affection for characters – mainly female characters such as Rei Ayanami and Asuka Sōryū Langley – with the airing of every episode. It's just saying that people talked about how much they liked Rei & Asuka on the forums of the 1990s Internet. If nothing else this shouldn't be tied to Rei alone here. Also, there should be more of a gap - the source puts a pause and indicates the bit about X & YouTube are "From that time onward", i.e. much later than the original run of Eva. That's not clear in the existing sentence which makes the global expansion sound more concurrent.

I think I took care of this. Z. Patterson (talk) 12:09, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Conversely, Tamaki Saitō argued that Lain's decision to choose destruction at the end of the series parallels Rei's decision in Evangelion. Hol' up here. We are going offroad for which anime series to discuss but I've seen both End of Eva & Serial Experiments Lain, and Lain does *not* "choose destruction". Let's double check the source, but even if the source says that, we don't have to make sources look strange or foolish, or worse be misleading.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:59, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• See also section: I'm not sold on some of these inclusions. Otaku: Japan's Database Animals is already linked and is very similar to database consumption, and I think it's questionable to tie these so directly to the topic of Rei specifically. Beautiful Fighting Girl is linked in a reference - if it's relevant, then mention the source in prose, if it's not relevant enough for that, then it probably isn't relevant enough for See also. I think List of Neon Genesis Evangelion characters (and grudgingly, the portal) are fine as a short See also.

I reduced the See also section to List of Neon Genesis Evangelion characters. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:59, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• Categories: I'm not sold "Fictional suicides" is relevant here - Instrumentality is more like a reset button, and the death in Rei III is a death in combat where a heroic sacrifice isn't really suicide. "Fictional victims of child abuse" is also odd - on one hand, yes, but I think that's covered by "Fictional child soldiers" already who should all get that one for free. Gendo is pretty much the worst possible draw of authority figures, but he's not, like, actively beating her or anything. I guess the question comes down to "exploitative guardian figure who exploits your loyalty to make you a child soldier" counts as child abuse as separate from child soldier.

Done, and I also removed Category:Fictional child soldiers per WP:CATSPECIFIC because Category:Fictional female child soldiers exists. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:59, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

That's the read-through for now, though I know there's still some outstanding comments above. SnowFire (talk) 02:36, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Mostly looks good. Two minor issues:

• Subcategories by gender are "non-diffusing" by default per the banner at the top of Category:Fictional female child soldiers. So relevant articles should appear in both; you can put the top-level Fictional child soldiers back.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 22:39, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• This is again not a blocking issue, I just want to check in again on what the source says on the "Anno considered Rei's character arc essentially complete after her smile in the sixth episode". If it says that, it's fine! Just curious. SnowFire (talk) 16:06, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

This is problably one of the most quoted Anno interviews in the fandom, and one of the weirdest - and cringey - statements from Anno's part. I personally have that book, but you can also find it on the Web Archive. Anno says: "«実は僕、レイって、全然思い入れないんですよ。『エヴァ』を作ってる最中でも、ハッと気がついたら、僕、忘れてましたからね。彼女の存在すら。七話なんて、思い出してレイのシーンを1カット足したぐらいです。全然思い入れがなかったですね。[...] 八話なんか、出て来ないですかね。一カットも出て来ない。最後でレイの「どうしたらいいかわからないの」っていう台詞に、シンジが「笑えばいいと思うよ」って言った時に、レイが笑顔を見せると。（略）後になって考えたら「しまった！」と。つまり、そこでシンジとコミュニケーション取っちゃったら、終わりじゃないかと。[...] 笑ったところで、もうおしまいじゃん、このキャラクターって". ""To be honest, I didn't have any emotional attachment to Rei at all. Even while we were making Eva, I'd suddenly realize I had completely forgotten about her—I had forgotten her very existence. For the seventh episode, I only remembered her at the last minute and added just a single shot of her. I really had no emotional connection to her. [...] She doesn't even appear in the eigth episode, you know? Not even a single shot. Then there was that moment at the end [of the sixth episode] where Rei says, 'I don't know what to do,' and Shinji replies, 'I think you should smile,' prompting her to show a smile. [...] Looking back on it later, I thought, 'Oh no!'. I realized that if she communicated with Shinji right there, it was all over. [...] Once she smiled, that character was finished." TeenAngels1234 (talk) 20:48, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Support from Jon698

I will make some comments soon. Jon698 (talk) 07:46, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• "known as Evangelions" and "designation First Child" -> Did you italicize these words because they have special meaning in the franchise? I usually only see italicization for newspapers or media, but it would be fine if you chose to do because they had special meaning.

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 02:04, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

• "The same band" -> Remove "same" since only one band was mentioned in this paragraph

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 02:04, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Conversely, in the eighth installment, "Asuka Strikes!", she never appears." -> Could you change this to "Conversely, she never appears in the eighth installment, "Asuka Strikes!"." so that it flows more naturally?

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 02:04, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

• "In "Rei III", one of the series' final episodes, the second Rei dies and a new clone replaces her, behaving similarly to a stranger toward Shinji." -> I would have this be the start of a new paragraph

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:59, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• "The series introduces Rei Ayanami as an enigmatic girl who pilots an Evangelion" -> Remove the wikilink for Evangelion and add it to "According to Patrick Drazen, the name may pun on her role as the pilot of Evangelion Unit-00" instead as that is the first mention in the body

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 11:06, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• "special agency Nerv against hostile beings called Angels." -> Remove the wikilink for Angels and add it to "Yui and to a covenant with twelve final Angels" instead as that is the first mention in the body

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 11:06, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Do the same thing as the two prior points for Shinji and Gendo

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 11:06, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• "also offer her as downloadable content" -> Wikilink Downloadable content

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 02:04, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

• "She also participates in an official" -> Change to "She is featured in an official"

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 02:04, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

@Jon698: I addressed the points you listed so far. Z. Patterson (talk) 11:07, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• The column traced this attachment to the aftermath of Japan's economic bubble -> Wikilink Japanese asset price bubble in "Japan's economic bubble"

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:24, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

• "sold about three thousand units" -> Change to 3,000

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:24, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

• "as a catalyst for the moe" -> Wikilink Moe (slang) as this is its first mention in the body

Done. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:24, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

• Those are all of my comments

@Jon698: I have addressed all of your above points. Z. Patterson (talk) 01:24, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Tabancale language

Nominator(s): 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 04:55, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about an extinct language of Peru known from five words, recorded in the 16th century. Naturally, the article cannot be very long; indeed, if passed, I believe it would be the shortest FA on record. I have recently got the article to GA status and had some more feedback from a mentor. This is my first ever FAC nomination.

@ThaesOfereode: pinging as mentor. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 04:55, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

To source reviewers: I have copies of unlinked documents which I will email you if possible. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 19:14, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• Welcome to FAC, though I am sure you got the "welcome message" pioneered by Gog, one of our coordinators.

I've made a minor revision and might make more if required. This article happens to be around 600 words long, less than half of the 1300-ish on Antigoneia (Syria), which I reviewed earlier this year. Good luck with the nomination. MSincccc (talk) 15:56, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

I would also suggest adding the relevant language template to the mainspace ("Use... English"). It helps. MSincccc (talk) 15:56, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

@MSincccc not sure which variety of English to use here since Peru is not an English-speaking country. Do I default to one variation or the other? 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 18:14, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

You can choose per MOS:ENGVAR. I default to my native American English unless WP:TIES applies, but if you're not a native English speaker, you can just do whichever variant you're most comfortable with. ThaesOfereode (talk) 23:14, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice; I've added it now. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 01:15, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Lead

• located along the Chinchipe River in the Department of Cajamarca of Peru,
  • Could we avoid repeating "of" here?

History

• "near the mouth of the Chinchipe River" → "at the mouth of the Chinchipe River"

Bottom line

• Kepler-1229b That's all from me. A fine article, and I will support the nomination on prose. MSincccc (talk) 13:44, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Done and done. Thanks for your feedback. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 17:08, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Support from ThaesOfereode

Hi, all. Kepler asked me to serve as mentor for a first attempt at FAC. I know I'm a few stars short of the generally accepted minimum for a mentor, but I figured I could help a little since, for one, my first FAC was a pretty short linguistics-focused article and, for two, all but one of my FACs have been linguistics articles. That said, if someone objects to the mentorship, please feel free to say so, but given the scope I didn't feel it was inappropriate to accept. For those interested, I left some initial notes for this nomination on my talk page here before the nom was officially launched here at FAC.

Kepler, a few more notes now that I'm looking at it with fresh eyes again:

• I joked that you had missed the link for Antoine Meillet in the sources, but I had misremembered when Meillet died (1936). It seems unlikely that he would have been an editor for a book published sixteen years after he died, though some of those old books give credit to decades-long efforts. If you still have the bibliographic information, it may be worth looking at the overall context of publication, but otherwise I'm not sure this can/should be linked to him anymore.
• although connections with the Chicham languages, spoken in Peru and Ecuador, have also been proposed – Well, just one, right?
• I would link Quechua-speaking to Quechuan languages
• I would change the link for parishes to Parish (Catholic Church), since it's not like the Spanish crown was sending Calvinists to evangelize the New World.
• Tabancale was reported to be spoken in a single village, Aconipa, located in the province of the Tabancale people – Kind of an obvious WP:POSA cut, unless I'm missing something. If Tabancale was spoken outside the province of the Tabancale people that would warrant mention. As an aside, this sentence is really long and a little difficult to follow with the commas and interspersing citations.
• I would probably link Indigenous languages of South America, Languages of Ecuador#Indigenous, and Language contact.
• That image is... a little sketchy, copyright wise. Are you sure it was uploaded by the person who said they uploaded? If not, seems pretty easy to make a new one. Let me know if you need me to; I can probably scrounge together a png at least something pretty easily.
• In the infobox, I might add either the |era= or |date= parameters.
• Perhaps more of an artistic note than a strictly encyclopedic one, but I might also suggest placing vocab before classification on this so the reader can refer back to the water term while reading Urban's Chicham comment. I think the flow works better for the reader to be introduced to a little data and then grapple with it, but feel free to ignore this.
• American linguist Lyle Campbell – Add a "the" here like you've already done passim.

Best, ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:31, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

@ThaesOfereode Thanks again for the advice. Meillet and Cohen can probably be credited as they are listed officially as editors in the 1952 edition. Where do you want me to link the Indigenous languages of South America, Languages of Ecuador#Indigenous, and Language contact.? I can't tell where to put these links. I can definitely create a new image myself (I have the knowledge and tools to make maps), but I don't really have much except for Loukotka's and Adelaar & Muysken's map to go off of. If you know of any other maps, please let me know. The vocabulary section before classification feels weird to me because of a preestablished convention for languages. Otherwise, I have implemented your fixes. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 03:21, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

As for Davius, the original uploader, I do not believe that they are Adelaar or were Muysken, and therefore would not hold copyright. I might start a discussion over at Commons, although Davius does not seem to be very active these days. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 03:23, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

Link Indigenous languages of South America as relevant in South American Indigenous languages (you could, and perhaps ought, create a redirect with South American Indigenous languages per WP:NOTBROKEN). Link Languages of Ecuador#Indigenous to Ecuadorian Indigenous languages. Link Language contact to its only use in the article. For the image, I would recommend an SVG if possible. Citing to the Adelaar & Muysken map currently in use but only marking the map for Tabancale would, as far as I can tell, be perfectly acceptable here (cf. Thompson language). ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:50, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

@ThaesOfereode Done. I could work on the map in the next few days. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 04:02, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

@ThaesOfereode This look good to you? I used Loukotka's map as reference. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 20:18, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

I also have a SVG version but the fonts don't work there. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 21:59, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

Looks good to me, though (and perhaps this is only my issue), the source link doesn't work (though I don't have access to the doi link so perhaps that is the issue). 02:48, 14 September 2026 (UTC) ThaesOfereode (talk) 02:48, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

@ThaesOfereode I'll add it to the article. The link works only if you reload the page after going to it; it's not actually broken. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 03:18, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

I figured as much. One more comment about the image: Was there a reason you chose yellow to mark the area on the map? The map is already a different hue of yellow. There is good guidance on what color might be better at MOS:COLOR, if for no other reason than just accessibility for colorblind/vision-impaired readers. ThaesOfereode (talk) 11:19, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

@ThaesOfereode Only because Loukotka's map used it too; I've changed it. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 12:48, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

@ThaesOfereode apologies for the double ping, but what do you think of the article at its current state? It has gone through some more improvements. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 00:51, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

No worries on the double ping here. As a new mentor, I wanted to see what others had to say before doing a full support. In its current state, my only notes are:

• an extinct and unclassified language – Consider just extinct here, since there is (according to your third overall sentence) disagreement about isolate vs unclassified.
• formerly spoken in the village of Aconipa, located along the Chinchipe River in the Department of Cajamarca, Peru, by the Tabancale people, as well as in neighboring Ecuador – Whew, that's a lot of commas. Can I suggest placing by the Tabancale people before in the village of Aconipa. I think the rest is unavoidable and not all that unreadable.
• left unclassified by others; yet others – Either delete "yet" or turn the semicolon into a comma. I (softly) recommend the former.
• conquered – In North America, this term can be fraught. I don't think it's worth changing given the historical context, but keep in mind this will probably be contested by readers if/when this is TFA.
• ^{[3]: 448–449, 459} – I don't think you need to change this per the FA guidelines, but I recommend {{sfn}} in your future FACs.
• Consider linking Language assimilation to "assimilated" in assimilated into the rural, Quechua-speaking population
• Your glossing of several linguists' nationalities, but not others is deeply inconsistent. Jiménez de la Espada (Spanish), Steward (American), Métraux (Swiss-Argentine), Jijón y Caamaño (Ecuadorian), Adelaar, Muysken (both Dutch), Urban (German), and Torero (Peruvian) are unglossed. Jijón y Caamaño and Torero in particular are noteworthy since they are from the area.

Other than that, I think this page is well on its way to FA status. This was quite an easy first mentorship. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:55, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

@ThaesOfereode Personally I do not prefer sfn because it wastes too much of my time and is quite difficult to set up in visual editor (where I add most of my content). I do agree about the inconsistency of the nationalities; I have in fact added them, but I think it is very clunky and reads rather awkwardly. Otherwise, I have implemented your suggestions. Thanks for mentoring me and giving highly helpful feedback about this article. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 02:37, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Fair enough re:sfn, though perhaps WP:PRIT may be of service in the future? As for the nationality clunkiness, feel free to remove them all; the only thing I really care about is consistency for this. As for the content, the linguistic accuracy, and the overall writing quality, I'm happy to support this article. It was a pleasure working with you on this FAC and I hope to see you around here soon (maybe with a little beefier an article though ). ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:03, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

I've got plenty in the works now. I might as well delete the nationality stuff as well. I am truly thankful for aiding me in this nomination and for a pleasant mentoring experience. It's been a pleasure from me as well. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 01:49, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

@Kepler-1229b: I found a passing reference to Tabancale as I was organizing some of my reference material. Given that it only backs up a claim already made by the same author (Urban) through a different source, I've added it to a new "Further reading" section, given the book's overall topic, but if you want to integrate it into the article, please feel free to. Best, ThaesOfereode (talk) 23:53, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the new reference; I'll see what I can do with it. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 23:55, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

@ThaesOfereode: Passerby comment: Maybe this is a larger issue, but I'm not sure why Template:Wikipedia Library access even exists, which was added to this book. The vast vast vast majority of readers are not eligible for TWL access. So this appears as just "()" if you view the article in non-logged out mode and looks like a typo. I think this template probably requires a larger rethink, but I wonder if the parens should be added to the template itself if kept at all. Thoughts? SnowFire (talk) 19:16, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Kisseran

Wow, and I thought I had chosen a maximally obscure language for my first FAC! I'll start with comments on the bibliography since those are simple:

• Dates more specific than the year are unusual to see for printed works, but if you choose to include them you should be consistent with them.
• Access dates and archive dates are also strange to see on printed books and journal articles. I especially don't see the point of archiving the urls to paywalled works, since these don't actually work to preserve the cited work.
• You're missing page numbers and the chapter title for Steward & Metraux 1948.
• Loukotka 1968 has the same value for locations and publisher, which seems unlikely to be right.
• Rivet & Loukotka 1952 is missing page numbers

More comments to come. Kisseran (talk) 04:54, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

Done. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 05:36, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

• First sentence should follow MOS:BOLDALTNAMES
• The surviving information about the Tabancale people and their language comes from an anonymous document titled Relación de la tierra de Jaén ('Account of the Land of Jaén') written around 1570 and published by Marcos Jiménez de la Espada as part of the Relaciones geográficas de Indias ('Geographical Accounts of Indians') of Peru in 1887. — this is a rather long and difficult to parse sentence that could be split up.
• to "survey the characteristics of the different regions of its South American territories" — does this need to be a direct quote?
• the Tabancale assimilated into the "rural, Quechua-speaking population" soon after their conquest in 1549 by Diego Palomino, the founder of the city of Jaén de Bracamoros. — is the city of Jaén de Bracamoros related to the Tabancale somehow?
• The language was located exclusively in southern Ecuador by Willem Adelaar and Pieter Muysken (2004) — given the previous sentence, this seems implausible, and indeed it is, because Adelaar and Muysken simply produce a map depicting the "approximate distribution" of indigenous languages and placed the label for Tabancale on the Ecuadorian side of the border. They do not say anywhere in prose that they've located it exclusively within Ecuador. Unlike many surrounding languages, Tabancale isn't given a blob on the map, but only a label. Looking at the map, I cannot come to interpret the positioning of the label as any more than practical graphical concerns.
• in his 1935 classification, he had grouped it as an independent family — "his" is ambiguous between Mason and Loukotka
• Matthias Urban (2024) shows that there may be some connection to the Chicham languages of Peru and Ecuador, particularly in the word yema 'water' with Chicham yumi 'water' — you could definitely spare some words on how he showed this potential connection, because from what you have written in the article now, simply identifying a single vague similarity scarcely amounts to "showed"
• Is there anything on the later linguistic situation of Aconipa?

That's all the comments I have. It's looking good! Kisseran (talk) 10:23, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

I can't really phrase the quote otherwise; if you have any suggestions I would gladly implement them. the founder of the city of Jaén de Bracamoros is supposed to give some basic background, and Jaén is reasonably close to the Tabancale area. From Urban (2024): "Tabancal <yema> is similar to the pan-Chicham word yumi ‘water’; however, the remaining vocabulary does not suggest a Chicham affiliation." This is the extent of his proposed similarity. The only mention of Aconipa I can find has to do with Tabancale. Otherwise, I have fixed everything else. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 16:48, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

I would suggest adding that Jaén de Bracamoros is close to the Tabacale area then. Instead of "showed" which I think implies more reasoning than what's going here, I might prefer "Urban compared Tabakale yema with the pan-Chicham word yumi" or something along those lines. I presume Aconipa is no longer an inhabited village? Do we know where Aconipa was in any more detail than what is given in the article? Kisseran (talk) 17:05, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

I don't know anything else about Aconipa. Searches always lead back to Tabancale for it. I've added the rest of your suggestions otherwise, as I see them. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 19:12, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

@Kisseran are the issues fixed in your opinion.? 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 18:15, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

I am somewhat skeptical that there can't be more information about Aconipa out there, but I'm fine with what you have now as far as FA criteria are concerned. One last recommendation I have would be to add an approximate date to the caption of the map. Kisseran (talk) 07:49, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

@Kisseran Thanks for the recommendation. I've added an approximate date to the caption; curiously, Loukotka himmself never indicated the date of when his map is supposed to depict. I am also a bit skeptical as well about the status of Aconipa but I really couldn't find anything; I think it might have been abandoned long ago. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 17:39, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Nevermind I forgot what Loukotka wrote: "Time-perspective is one of the problems that plague language-area mapping. On our map it reaches from Pre-Colombian and Discovery times all the way up to the present. Crowded as it is, the map would not have sustained the addition of the multitude of chronological markers required to outline the perspective in time. Only in two instances could exceptions be made, viz., to indicate the expansion of the Araucanians during the 18th century and the modern expansion of the Quechua speakers.:" 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 17:49, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Alright, I'll support, as it seems like the article meets all the FA criteria. Perhaps it is not what people had in mind when writing the FA criteria, but that's not my present concern. Kisseran (talk) 15:55, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

SnowFire

Excellent work. Usual disclaimer goes here that by default, comments are suggestions, and you should feel free to push back. A few comments:

• neighbouring The article is marked as "Use American English." Either "neighboring" or mark as "Use British English".
• although a connection with the Chicham languages, spoken in Peru and Ecuador, has also been proposed. I don't think "although" is quite the right word - we already qualified this with only "some" linguists saying the first, so it's not surprising that others say something else. Up to you, but maybe something like:
  • Linguists have categorized the language in a variety of ways. Some consider it a [[language isolate]]; some have proposed a connection with the [[Chicham languages]], spoken in Peru and Ecuador; and others have left it as an [[unclassified language]].
• published by Marcos Jiménez de la Espada as part of the Relaciones geográficas de Indias ('Geographical Accounts of Indians') of Peru in 1887. This is a misleading translation, IMO. See es:Relaciones geográficas de Indias. In Spanish of the era, the "Indias" in this context means "the Indies" (not "Indians"), and further, this term was used very very broadly to mean "Spanish Empire territories in the New World". In fact, per es:Recopilación de Leyes de las Indias, this even included The Philippines as part of the "Indies", which was 19,000+ kilometers away. It wasn't exclusive to natives / Indians - you can verify at the Spanish Wikipedia articles. Unfortunately, the term "Indies" in English is exclusive to the Caribbean Islands, so the options are not great. I would suggest "Geographical Accounts of the Kingdoms of the Indies" to hint that this isn't English-Indies.
• questionnaires sent out by the king of Spain Yes, but also no. The source says "Spanish crown" but "crown" really means "government" (e.g. Crown of Castile). This is the old-timey style where everything the government does is attributed to the King, but I guarantee Philip II was not actually writing the questions and mailing the envelopes. I'd suggest "the royal Spanish government" or the like.
• Julian Steward and Alfred Métraux (1948) assumed the Tabancale assimilated into the "rural, Quechua-speaking population" soon after their conquest in 1549 by Diego Palomino, the founder of the city of Jaén de Bracamoros, which was originally located at the mouth of the Chinchipe River. This sentence is too long and meandering - maybe make it two sentences. What's the relevance of where Jaén is? I presume it's because Jaén is close to Aconipa, but say that then, that Palomino was in the area.
• Loukotka was apparently the only one of the "compilers" Why is compilers quoted? It reads like scare quotes, like Loukotka wasn't a "real" compiler.
• Optional: According to Adelaar and Muysken (2004), This is rather more academia-ese than Wikipedia prefers in prose attributions. If someone wants the date, they can check the citation. We also haven't introduced these names yet nor is Adelaar wikilinked here, so someone reading this might wonder if they should recognize the names. I would suggest "According to Willem Adelaar and Pieter Muysken," and if you think the date is relevant, "According to a 2004 work by (names),".
  • Similarly, I'd phrase "The Czech linguist Čestmír Loukotka (1968)" as "The Czech linguist Čestmír Loukotka put its distribution in both Peru and Ecuador in 1968", or just leave the date out and only put it in the citation if we think it's still a good source. (Sometimes it's good to mention dates to hint to the reader a source is ancient, but doesn't seem relevant here.)
  • More recently, however, Matthias Urban (2024) "Recently" can go out of date, so similar to the above, "In 2024, Matthias Urban..."
  • though Alfredo Torero (1993) had previously ascribed this similarity to language contact. Is this an "Although" relationship? Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm not sure Torero and Urban disagree here. They're both arguing for some form of relation.
• Optional: So just to be clear, by WP:CITEVAR, you can do whatever you like, so feel free to ignore this and tell me to take a hike. But. The Template:Rp / Reference Page style is intended, per the documentation, "Use this template when you are referring to specific pages within a source which is cited many times in the same article." In other words, if you have a source cited like 10+ times in different spots, Rp can make sense. If you only cite a source one-and-only-one-time, then just move the page into the citation itself. So references 10 and 11 would be easy calls to just put the page directly in the citation with page= and remove the reference page template. Citation 5 has multiple cites, but they're always to page 32; citation 6 always cites p. 615 (although see below, maybe it should be 614-616), so again the page / page range can just be natively in the citation. However it's your call at the end of the day, this is just advice, don't feel obligated.

I will also do a source review.

• Nit: You cite Torero 1993 p. 447 for the Marcos Jiménez de la Espada part, but I'd say that information is more accurately in pp. 448-449.
• Jiménez de la Espada: would suggest adding language=es and orig-date=1887 to the citation. You should also include "Book 4" or "Tomo IV" somewhere (either the title straight-up, or as series=Tomo IV or the like.
• Handbook of South American Indians: Volume 3 The Tropical Forest Tribes: This url is dead. It looks like it is at https://repository.si.edu/items/2062013c-ac4e-4f30-a596-773ed5c6c468 now; please update.
• Loukotka 1968: Consider adding "Reference Series 7" to series= . Which is just about the most worthless, vague series title I've ever heard of, but it's what UCLA picked, I guess.
• Steward & Métraux 1948: This is more accurately cited to pp. 614-616, IMO (it's 616 that actually discusses the Tabancale), not just 615.
• along the Chinchipe River doesn't appear to be in Loukotka 1968, and while Urban 2024 mentions this river as in the Jaen area, he doesn't appear to say it went through Aconipa. I'm not saying take this out, but maybe add a more direct source, or weaken the claim if it was just in the area like Urban indicates? Alternatively, Steward & Métraux 1948 says "the Chirinos and Aconipa Rivers", but is a dated source.
• The Tabancale were "linguistically different" from other peoples living in the region, according to the Relación This makes it sound like you're quoting the Relación, but you're actually quoting Steward 1948. Not sure the quote marks are needed at all here.
• Julian Steward and Alfred Métraux (1948) assumed the Tabancale assimilated into the "rural, Quechua-speaking population" Okay, the source uses "presumed", but I think this might not be giving Steward & Métraux enough credit. Maybe "suggested" rather than "assumed"? They did have a reason for thinking this, the lack of later history or documents of a hypothetical independent Tabancale, which would be explained if they assimilated and lost their original language.
• Tovar 1961: Consider adding "language=es" and possibly a "trans-title=" since this is a rather long title.
• Meganit: Citations 2, 4, and 8 have access-date retrieved dates. Strictly speaking, these aren't fully necessary, unless you're citing an online, updated version of the article (which does happen sometimes). These seem to be published, set works (rather than website-like resources that can change), so the vanilla date should cover it.
• Conclusion: Validated claims in the article cited to Campbell 2024, Torero 1993, Urban 2024, Jiménez de la Espada 1897, Steward & Métraux 1948, Loukotka 1968, Mason 1950, Tovar 1961, and Adelaar & Muysken 2004. Loukotka 1967 is paywalled and not on WP Library but it's only used to cite a map, and Adelaar & Muysken 2004 includes a map with the same info, so validated anyway. I don't have access to Rivet & Loukotka 1952 but the claim here seems very safe. So 10/11 on checked sources, less the nitpicks and questions above.

As mentioned above, nice work! SnowFire (talk) 21:33, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

@SnowFire Thanks for your advice. "Compilers" is supposed to be a direct quotation from Mason (1950) since I can't phrase it otherwise. I legitimately forgot where I got the "Chinchipe River" claim from; anyway, I've changed it to quote Adelaar and Muysken (2004). AFAIK source 8 has no access-date, but I am citing the online web-page versions of sources 2 and 4. You do have a point with the "These seem to be published, set works (rather than website-like resources that can change), so the vanilla date should cover it" statement though. If you would like, I can email you the cited page for Rivet and Loukotka (1952). Personally I'm not really a fan of incorporating the page number into citation templates themselves but I do see where you are coming from; it's really personal preference here. I feel that Urban is less specific than Torero here so the word "although" is more appropriate than otherwise, although if you insist I will change it. I feel that "the royal Indies" is a bit unwieldy but I have also changed the rest of the translation. Seems I forgot to link Adelaar's name; I have modified the sentence accordingly. All other fixes not listed here have also been accounted for to my knowledge. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 18:09, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

FWIW since this is your first time at FAC, I do think it's preferable to explicitly decline suggestions you disagree with (just say "acknowledged" or the like if nothing else). Otherwise the reviewer has to guess whether it was just missed, or if it is a matter of disagreement. It's fine to disagree, just remove the mystery! I'm going to go over a few items raised above again since I'm not sure if you disagree, or if it got lost in the shuffle.

• Validated the added reference to Adelaar 2004 on "near the upper reaches of the Chinchipe River". However... and this goes for "compilers" as well... I don't agree with quoting here, or for "compilers", or "different language", or the bit about assimillating into the rural Quechua-speaking population. Now, quoting a source is fine, but it's usually used for emphasis, a particularly apt turn of phrase, a case where the precise wording is really important, a case where sources disagree, a dubious claim that's relevant to report, and such. None of these apply here. If Adelaar says it's "near the upper reaches of the Chinchipe River", I believe him. He's a scholarly source, we can report this in Wikivoice, unquoted - a skeptic can just go to the reference at the end of the sentence. Similarly, there does not appear to be any doubt Loukotka was a compiler of South American languages. It's not like you're breaking copyright here, either - these are tiny proportions of the material quoted. You don't need to use quote marks every time a paraphrase isn't done. So I don't really understand why we're quoting here, and a few other sections as well. (Maybe we'd quote for, say, raw Spanish quotes of Jiménez de la Espada.)
• I recognize it came up from additions in the above review, but the sentence on Jaen is still too long and meandering. I don't want to be too prescriptive on fixes as there are lots of options, but as is, this sentence is unnecessarily complex. Happy to provide suggestions if you'd like.
• Academia style "Name (Year)" in-text attribution: Maybe "Optional" was a bit too flexible before, so let me up this to something a bit stronger - I disagree here. We shouldn't write "The Czech linguist Čestmír Loukotka (1968) put its distribution", we should either leave the year off entirely, or it should be "The Czech linguist Čestmír Loukotka in 1968 put its distribution" or the like. See Wikipedia:Citing_sources#In-text_attribution and the examples there - the suggested style is not "John Rawls (1971) argues that...", but just "John Rawls argues that..." This is not strictly speaking a deal-breaker, but please at least consider the style without the parenthetical years. (Note that parenthetical years, for whatever odd reason, are fine on titles, just not usually authors in-text.)

SnowFire (talk) 22:25, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

@SnowFire "Optional" was definitely too flexible as above. I've tried to remove the (year) formatting from as many entries as I can. I do agree with you about the Jaén sentence. Introducing Palomino without any other information reads too awkwardly while the current exposition about him is certainly far too awkward as well. I'm quite stuck as to what to do here; any advice would greatly benefit. I have also trimmed the quotation marks where unnecessary. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 00:19, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks, the quoting is more focused now. (Edit: Also the year references are now fixed, thanks.)

On phrasing that over-long sentence, here's my stab: diff Feel free to adjust, but this work? The older phrasing said "original location" but as best I can tell the city of Jaen has not moved, and even if it did it's still true it was founded there, so I don't think "original" is necessary. It's not clear that the Tabancale were conquered in 1549 from the source, just that the city of Jaen was founded then - the process of conquest may have taken a bit longer. It's a little odd that we're jaunting backward in time to 1549, but so be it - again up to you, but I could see a paragraph structure that started with the Spanish Empire coming to the region in 1549, and only then move on to the surviving source from 1570. SnowFire (talk) 08:04, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

@SnowFire I've made a minor tweak but it looks better than whatever I could come up with. I think Jaén did actualy move if I remember correctly though; I could have misremembered. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 18:22, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

To update... yes, it looks like Jaen was indeed moved in 1804/1805. I don't think "originally" is still that relevant - more something to add to the Jaén, Peru article IMO since the moving happened over 200 years later and it was still founded in that location. (I was thrown because the es wiki article on Jaen, Peru bounces back and forth in time, but it does mention it there.)

I will just add on one of the other optional suggestions I made above that wasn't done - I don't think it's mandatory to add trans-title and it's better to have no translation at all than a potentially wrong one, but will just mention that as something to keep an eye on in the future for when there are well-known and "safe" translations of citations. So it's fine as-is IMO, just be aware.

• Support. Nice work!
• Additionally, I consider the source review passed, all claims are directly validated (barring the tiny Rivet and Loukotka 1952 one mentioned above which I am happy to AGF rather than ask for the document) from me reading the sources. (None of which are very long, for obvious reasons!) SnowFire (talk) 22:44, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

Ohuan

Nominator(s): Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:52, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about King Ohuan, born Odogbo, who was the nineteenth Oba ('king') of the Kingdom of Benin. He succeeded his father, Ehengbuda, in the early seventeenth century. Something interesting about him is whether he was born a woman but later transformed into a man by African medicine.

Recently passed GAN, and I believe it meets FACRIT. Looking forward to your always helpful comments in reaching the goal, thank you already. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:52, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments from Jordano53

Happy to help here. Expect comments in the coming days. Jordano⁵³ 11:22, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

@Jordano53 Hi there, was wondering if you are able to check by now? Vanderwaalforces (talk) 18:42, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

Jens

I have concerns with the prose; I'm not a native speaker but I think that parts of this are poorly worded. Some sentences I cannot understand. Some examples below. Also, shouldn't this have a section about the sources, as your last nomination had?

• successor Ehenzai: all terms and names should be linked in the body again. Also, stick with one name; in the infobox, you use a different name for the same person.

• I now use Ahenzae consistently and link the first body occurrence. Talbot's spelling Ehenzai is explained once. –VWF

• tsetse-infested: Link

• See below. –VWF

• "later tsetse-infested bush": why "later", I can't follow

• I have removed this statement entirely with better explanation (methinks). –VWF

• "linked a formerly larger population to surviving walled settlements and signs of more cultivation." I can't foow here

• Basically reworded. –VWF

• "Ben-Amos and John Thornton wrote that one tradition attributed to Ehengbuda a rule preventing the execution of the Uwangue, one of the three leading administrative officeholders, thereby limiting an earlier royal power over subjects": Again I cannot follow.

• I separated the tradition about protection of the Uwangue from the authors' interpretation of its effect on royal authority. –VWF

• "reports from the period referred": Confusing. Do we need "from the period referred"?

• Reworded to identify the two accounts separately. I also did some prose tweaks explaining how the authors actually used the accounts in their interpretation. –VWF

• "Ohuan was born Odogbo, the only son of Oba ('king') Ehengbuda, who was placed on the Benin throne after his father's death.": Why is it relevant that Ehengbuda was placed on the throne after his fathers death?

• The relative clause referred to Ohuan so I have separated the statements and now state that Odogbo succeeded Ehengbuda after Ehengbuda's death. –VWF

• "The Iyoba ('queen mother') was normally installed as an Oba's mother about three years after his accession, after which she was sent to Lower Uselu to reside in Eguae-Iyoba ('queen mother's court')": Installed as an lyoba, not as a mother, right? Should "after which" be "when"? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 08:33, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• Corrected to investment of the Oba's mother with the title of Iyoba, followed by the statement that she was sent to live at Uselu. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 10:22, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Hi Jens, thanks for coming by and for your always helpful feedback. I have made changes, please let me know your thoughts. Also changed the Historiography to a Sources section with more clarity. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:58, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Gerda

Thank you for the invitation. I'll comment as I read, lead and infobox last. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:09, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

I made some changes to the article. please check if you agree, or revert.

Background ...

• "Historical accounts generally place his reign from the early 17th century until around 1640." - that much I concluded from the three given, the sentence is then not needed, or is it about "other historical accounts"?

• Right, removed. –VWF

• "Anthropologists Peter Roese and Dmitri Bondarenko recorded informants who assigned Ohuan only a brief reign, observing that their accounts associated few major events with him." - please reword for clarity, - as written it remains unclear who is observing, R. and B. or the informants, and also if accounts is just a different word for the informants.

• Split into two sentences. –VWF

• For all the people quoted, it would be interesting when they published their assumptions, - more important for those without an article than others.

• True, added dates where relevant. –VWF

• "... the city as approached by a broad, straight, unpaved road, with earthworks, a deep dry ditch, trees, suburbs, and regularly arranged houses" - it remains unclear if "with" refers to the road or the city.

• Okay, the road now has its own sentence, followed by the description of the city and its surroundings. –VWF

• horses "although they could not survive in the later tsetse-infested bush" - "tsetse" and "bush" might profit from a link, and "later" means later than what?

• I already removed this based on Jens' comment above. –VWF

• "linked a formerly larger population to surviving walled settlements and signs of more cultivation" - not sure what it means.
  • Reworded. –VWF
• "Dutch and German reports from the period referred, respectively," - do you want to say that these reports support the assumption? - "respectively" is not clear about that.

• Removed respectively, then I explained what the authors inferred from the reports and the Iyase rebellion. –VWF

Early life ...

• Do we know if E. was already Oba when this child was born? - I'd mention the accession first, then the birth, if E. was already Oba.

• I cannot establish whether Ehengbuda was already Oba when Odogbo was born. –VWF

• Perhaps try to not make it look like three different positions, "girlish", "man by medicine", "effeminate".

• Did some tweaks. –VWF

• "Egharevba wrote that Odogbo and the attendants became known as ifieto ('hair curlers'), and stated that they continued to dance and sing ceremonially before royal processions." - that means that Odogbo and the attendants continued to dance ..."?

• Clarified. –VWF

• "Academic Sweet Ufumwen Ebeigbe also linked the account with the exclusion of women from the Benin throne." - That seems just like a third with the same idea, - why then say it differently leaving open what precisely "the account" means?

• Removed the reference to the account, and then I stated directly the common point about women's exclusion. –VWF

• I wonder about the header, because the paragraphs have neither the person's life nor accession.

• I am using "Family and accession" now. –VWF

Mother ...

• I'd expect to read about a child's mother before the birth. This section seems to be more about the lyoba institution.

• Done. –VWF

• I don't think we need - for this article - the information about "if the crown-prince died".

• Removed. –VWF

I read up to Reign. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:12, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

... Ogina

• how about trying to ref numbers in ascending order? (please check yourself) - another possibility (and perhaps better): place each ref right behind the fact it supports.

• Oh damn, everyone really has their preference; while I initially preferred what you just asked for, several other GA reviewers have moulded my citation preference in a completely different way (grouping citations, sometimes at the end of paragraphs unless statements are controversial). But I followed your suggestion of placing each ref right behind the fact it supports. –VWF

• The oral traditions support that the child was born before the father's accession, and should perhaps be quoted in that earlier context also.

• I honestly don't think so, I am by all means trying to not infer that as the source didn't explicitly say that. The account describes pregnancy and childbirth but does not explicitly establish that chronology. But I moved that information from the Conflict subsection to the Family and accession section now. –VWF

• Did Roese and Bondarenko point out that Evbohuan is "a settlement associated with his name"? Then it should come out more clearly. If not, this description would be better where the place is first mentioned.

• Actually, the word Evbohuan simply means "Ohuan's village" or hometown, you know. The source say "the village which still bears his name", so, I just identify it as a village at first mention and removed that settlement statement that appeared latter to be on a safer side. –VWF

• "while treating the confrontation as influential in Benin military history" - any better word for "treating"?

• Fixed. –VWF

• I don't think the last sentences, after "history" - about the Oba in general - belong under the conflict header.

• I moved those statements directly under Reign now. –VWF

Kingship ...

• "Benin chiefs" - who are they?

• Tweaked. –VWF

• consider to (generally) say "17th century"

• Done. –VWF

• the slave trade comes as a surprise - who would have thought of that?

• Tweaked, removing it entirely. –VWF

• Osuma remains unexplained. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:32, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Explained. –VWF

Death ...

• Perhaps have just Succession, as there is nothing about his death. Or repeat the different accounts about when he died.

• Done. –VWF

• Perhaps combine the two mentionings of the gambling away, - one seems to say "others" and the other Ahenzae?

• Done. –VWF

Historiography

• Perhaps I understand too little what that is, but I could imagine the first half to go to Succession, and the whole Dappert thingy to be dropped entirely: just one possible mentioning without context, and highly doubtful, no? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:31, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Per above, this is now Source section and I fixed it though based on your suggestion now. –VWF

Infobox

• Caption: the reader looking here first (most, I assume, and before reading further down in the infobox) will not know that Odogbo is an earlier name of the subject.

• Fixed. –VWF

• I wonder if the uncertainty of any date about beginning and end of his reign could become more visible by saying "between 1606 and 1610" and "between 1630 and 1641", instead of suggesting that we only don't know if 1640 or 1641.

• I agree, fixed. –VWF

• Can we point at no clarity about his successor? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:42, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Of course, done. –VWF

I just made some changes for clarity to the lead. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:51, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

As they were reverted, let's talk about it:

• I feel that a new para should begin when the step back in time happens, from something during his reign to his names.
• I feel that the birth name should be introduced first, and the other be marked as regal name, - something I knew from having other articles, but we should be clear for someone who has no previous knowledge.

' (another point reverted:) "His reign occurred during a period in which the Oba ceased personally commanding military expeditions and senior chiefs ..." - that reads as if the Oba ceased commanding two things, military expeditions and senior chiefs. We need something - at least a comma - to indicate that the chiefs are the subject of a different sentence.

• @Gerda Arendt: Oh now, it was not my intention to revert them. I think you made those edits while I had my edit area opened; of course, I saw the EC warning but I thought I had made very significant changes and had to prefer my own version. Can you reinstate your edits back? I'm sorry for the inconvenience. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:45, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

  Thank you for explaining. I'll try, and I'll do it in small steps to avoid edit conflicts ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:48, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

  done --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:54, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

  @Gerda Arendt Thank you so much, all fixed above, please let me know your thoughts. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:11, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

  I'm happy with your changes and support the article for FA. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:53, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

History of education in Wales (1870–1939)

Nominator(s): Llewee (talk) 16:30, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about what it says on the tin, an education system. That education system, like the nation it served, was both closely integrated with England and peculiar to itself. The article discusses politics and everyday life in the classroom. The sometimes awkward place of education in a society with two languages and two nationalities. How the system was both embraced and rejected by the people it was suppose to benefit and influenced social change. I hope that didn't sound too pretentious and that it's interesting to read.

This is the third nomination of the article and it is also been peer reviewed. I have tried to address the concerns that have arisen previously. Llewee (talk) 16:30, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

RoySmith

I took a look at this in the last FAC, and again at the recent PR. I'm not sure I'm up for another full review of this longish article, but I'll sample a few sections. RoySmith (talk) 14:19, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

Attendance, teaching and discipline

This starts out with attendance figures for 1877 and 1900. My first thought was that you're comparing apples and oranges since you're looking at different counties in those two years, but then I read it closer and realized you're giving the high and low limits for each year, so that's reasonable, but it could be rephrased to make it more clear. But then you've got Many rural children lived far from the nearest school.[87][88] which is just sort of dropped in with no connection to the rest of this. I'm guessing the point is that the low attendance is caused by the long distance student have to travel, but you don't actually say that, so it's just a guess. And what changed between 1877 and 1900 to improve the attendance rates? Did students move closer to their schools? Were more schools built closer to where students lived? The same question applies to the next two sentences, which talk about poverty and local events. Did these factors change during that 23 year span?

It's mentioned in the paragraph that 1877 was "before education became universally compulsory". The introduction of compulsion is discussed in the section about the politics of elementary education and I'd rather not introduce repetition. The second part of the paragraph is about the factors that reduced attendance and I have reorganised it to make that clearer.--Llewee (talk) 22:47, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

Laws, politics and administration

• Many Welsh Nonconformists regarded the legislation as disappointing.[54] What did they find disappointing?

• It was discussed in the next sentence and I've now swapped the two around to make that clearer.--Llewee (talk) 22:57, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• moreover, the right initially applied only to newly established voluntary schools This is the first mention of any rights. What right are we talking about here? Oh, I see it's explained a little further down ("the right to opt out of religious instruction") but that should be explained up front.

  I'd previously removed a chunk of text from the early part of the section and left it reading a bit awkwardly. It seems to be in a better state now.--Llewee (talk) 23:25, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

Historians and cultural memory

• By the outbreak of the First World War, almost all newly married couples were able to sign the marriage register;[375] in some Welsh counties during the 1860s, fewer than 60 per cent had been able to do so.[376] You're talking about literacy rates here, but you never actually say that, which I think will be confusing to some readers. I'd say something like "almost all newly married couples knew how to write and were thus able to sign the marriage register ..."
  • I have added a footnote to try and clarify this. I think its overplaying it a bit to assume that everyone who could sign their name could necessarily write. Especially given many couldn't speak the language they had been largely educated in.--Llewee (talk) 19:43, 20 September 2026 (UTC)
• This is kind of a confusing paragraph. You start out talking about literacy rates. Then you jump to religious vs secular education. And then you move on to education enabling upward social mobility. These three topics seen unrelated to each other, so it's not clear why they all belong in the same paragraph.
  • I have moved the literacy stuff to the contemporary views section. The other sentences are the opinions of historians that don't fit with the themes of the other two paragraphs (language and national identity). The only other option would be to break it up into a number of short paragraphs that would quite scruffy.--Llewee (talk) 19:43, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

Noleander

• I reviewed this in its first FA nomination. During that nomination, the article made significant progress. Towards the end of the nomination process, the only potential issue that I saw was prose quality: it was a a bit bland and wordy. It was hard to stay interested in the article while reading it. There was the possibility that the blandness was simply the nature of the article's topic, so in the end I did not view it as an obstacle to FA status. Beyond the prose, the article complied with all other FACR requirements ... certainly it was very comprehensive and well-sourced. I gave it a support recommendation.

• Following notes are on the current article.

• Section title "Contemporary views" - consider rewording, since "contemporary" has two very different meanings: (a) now, in the present time (2026); or (b) at the same time as the historical events being described.
  • "Contemporary views" also doesn't really cover the contents. I have changed it to "reactions and memories" which I'm not sure is ideal but I couldn't find any better words in the thesaurus.--Llewee (talk) 22:59, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• The map image File:Map_o_ieithoedd_Cymru_(A_map_of_the_languages_of_Wales)_-_1900.svg does not comply with color-blind guidance from MOS:COLOUR, which says "Color should not be used as the sole visual means of conveying information, or for distinguishing elements such as links, templates, or table rows. Always provide an alternative method—such as an accessible symbol and/or text ..." Some image reviewers consider that a mandatory guideline. Some do not. To remedy it, simply add text labels onto the map with letters or words over the green and pink regions, to provide a second way to distinguish those two regions. Noleander (talk) 13:45, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
  • I have taken out the map. I don't know how to edit other people's images and I wouldn't want to. I have added another image as a replacement.--Llewee (talk) 22:25, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• Page # format error: Johnes 2024, p. 245–246. P/PP error? p. 245–246.;
  • done--Llewee (talk) 22:26, 24 September 2026 (UTC)
• Footnote #332 has a red warning " Stephens 2024, pp. 26–27. Harv error: link from CITEREFStephens2024 doesn't point to any citation. Harv error: link from CITEREFStephens2024 doesn't point to any citation."
  • Yeah I added that one recently and added the wrong year, fixed.--Llewee (talk) 22:18, 24 September 2026 (UTC)
• Capitalization style of source titles: uses a mixture of title case and sentence case. Best is for all source titles to use same cap style. The way sources capitalize their own title can be ignored.
  • I have fixed the examples of title case I found.--Llewee (talk) 23:05, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

  FYI: There is a tool that will convert source title capitalizations automatically: User:ZKang123/TitleCaseConverter. Noleander (talk) 13:58, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

  Yeah, I have installed that.--Llewee (talk) 23:10, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• Why quote? Subjects included "book-keeping, shorthand, cookery, woodcarving, ambulance work and handicrafts". Quotes should only be used when the speaker is significant, and their precise words must be given to the reader of this article. In this sentence, it seems like that list could simply be stated in the encyclopedia's voice. By using quote marks, it causes the reader to wonder if the quoted material is controversial or outrageous. Is it?

  I wouldn't think so but I would assume that if I'm using the same words as the source then it's safer to use quotes to avoid being accused of plagiarism.--Llewee (talk) 23:10, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

  You are right to be concerned about plagiarism. What I do in those situations is randomly shuffle the list items, so I can remove the quote marks. I'm not sure if the WP MOS has a guideline covering this situation. Certainly there are many thousands of lists in WP article that are not within quote marks, so this scenario must have been faced & resolved many times over. Noleander (talk) 23:24, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

  I have made some tweaks to wording and taken that and another list out of quotes. --Llewee (talk) 23:08, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Why mention source? The 1927 government report Welsh in Education and Life found that although most secondary schools taught Welsh as a subject, none used it as the principal language of instruction. 99% of the material in a good article simply states facts ... the source is named (attribution) only rarely, when there is good reason (usually if the material is an opinion, or a famous person, or controversial).

  removed the name of this report--Llewee (talk) 23:22, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

• Here is another example: Research by the Aberdare Committee in the early 1880s suggested that most pupils attending secondary schools were enrolled at private schools without endowments.. Again: the reader can click on the citation to obtain details about the source .... it is best for the body text to omit the source (unless there is a good reason). Suggest going thru the article and finding any identifications of sources that are not significant.

  I have removed some repeat mentions of sources including the one you pointed to but I don't think it's a bad thing to name some contemporary documents in case the reader wants to look them up. Most of the sources are modern academic texts the typical reader won't have access to.--Llewee (talk) 18:01, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Here source is named and quoted: In 1928, John Hughes, a professor of education, commented that teaching Welsh-speaking children through the medium of English remained common "in backward schools and areas". Can the source be omitted? Can the quote be replaced with a paraphrase in WP's voice?

  I don't think this could easily be summarised without me changing the meaning.--Llewee (talk) 18:01, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Source needed? Johnes argues that some corporal punishment for speaking Welsh at school probably persisted into the early 20th century. Can the source be omitted? Is there something controversial about Johnes viewpoint? If no source contradicts it, why not omit the source and state in in WP's voice?

  I have taken out the source here.--Llewee (talk) 18:01, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Anecdotes: In nomination #1 I noticed there were several personal anecdotes in the article, and I wrote in that review that they should be avoided. I still see some in the article:
  • Maude Morgan Thomas, who emigrated to the United States as a girl in 1912,[207] described her elementary school history lessons as a succession of violent stories—"Every page was red with blood."—about conflict between the mediaeval Welsh and the English.
  • Likewise, Dannie Abse, who attended school during the interwar period, recalled that one of his teachers became visibly emotional while telling the class that Owain Glyndŵr had been a hero and reading extracts from Flame Bearers of Welsh History (1905) by Owen Rhoscomyl.

Ideally, a WP article would summarize those in the encyclopedia's voice. Dannie Abse has a WP article, so maybe their insight is special. But unless Maude Morgan Thomas is notable, I'm not sure her thoughts belong in an encyclopedia article. Ditto for any other anecdotes that may be in the article today.

There are far fewer anecdotes in the article than during the first review. I have summarised the Abse and Morgan Thomas points. I have kept Morgan Thomas's views elsewhere in the article. She wasn't a celebrity but she published a couple of books and a reader who looked up her name would find information about her.--Llewee (talk) 22:34, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• That's all for now. Noleander (talk) 00:36, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

  @Noleander I have responded to your comments. Llewee (talk) 23:12, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Support on prose and MOS. I have not done a source review or image review. The article's prose is not quite perfect, but no article has perfect prose. One factor in favor of support is that the nominator had a similar article promoted in 2025 (a year and a half ago) at WP:Featured article candidates/History of education in Wales (1701–1870)/archive1. That article was comparable in quality to this current nomination – if anything, the prose and style of the current nomination is superior to that prior article. In the 2025 nomination, reviewers that supported promotion included SchroCat, Borsoka, and Tim riley. It would be perverse to apply more stringent criteria to the current article, written by the same nominator, on essentially the same topic, in the same style. Yes, the FA criteria are gradually growing more rigorous over time; but the FAC process should not "move the goalposts" in the short span of 18 months. Noleander (talk) 17:39, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Clarke Quay MRT station

Nominator(s): ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 05:02, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

Another article on another station of the North East Line (hoping to bring at least half the NEL stations to FA for featured topic). This article was recently expanded to include more conference papers I managed to find on its construction, particularly the tunnels. I appreciate any feedback. ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 05:02, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

Icepinner

Nice to see this article up for FAC... I know there's quite a lot of coverage for Clarke Quay specifically. Expect comments in the next few days. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 06:48, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

History

• "The North East Line (NEL) project, which was first proposed in 1984, received government approval in January 1996" perhaps it would be beneficial to explain why it took 12 years for the station to be approved?
  • I think anyone checking the wikilink could soon see why.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
    • Fair enough. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 17:02, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The Land Transport Authority (LTA) Deputy Chief Executive and his colleagues visited Clarke Quay in 1995" for what purpose? It seems strange that the LTA would visit Clarke Quay and, out of the blue, decide the location of a station.
  • According to the source they were actually having beer with a few colleagues...--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
    • I'm fine if the beer part is removed, if other users have issues with it. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 17:02, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
• "which lay along the proposed NEL route" laid?
  • Fixed.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The station opened on 20 June 2003 along with the other NEL stations" no prior announcement from the LTA?
  • Don't think it's relevant.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
• "and the contiguous concrete wall panels were installed via diaphragm walling" link to diaphragm wall?
  • Fixed.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
• I think you should explicitly state that the construction site was near the Singapore River rather than implying it (and to avoid any doubts), otherwise phrases like "fluvial sand" and "heritage shophouses by the river" won't make sense
  • Fixed.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
• "This was the second MRT river crossing, although the first to use the tunnel boring machine (TBM) beneath the riverbed" perhaps add a footnote detailing the first MRT river crossing, and why they didn't choose to use the TBM method?
  • I might add it, but it's quite complicated given there's not really an independent or contemporary source on the first river crossing.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
    • Hmm, let's see what others say. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 17:02, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
• "such as an underground enclosed reservoir atop Fort Canning" is it the same as an aquifer? If so, you might wanna simply describe it as an aquifer for conciseness.
  • Source did not outright state that.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

Details

• "reminiscent of the boats ferrying tourists and locals along the river" does the source mention that it's a Bumboat? If so, a link would be nice.
  • No.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

Artwork

• "both pieces capture the vibrancy and vitality of the river" this kinda has a promotional/flowery tone imo
  • Decided to rewrite to attribute more directly to LTA's words.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

That's all I have. Ping me when you've responded to them. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 16:37, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

@Icepinner: Did the changes and responded to your comments.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

Support. I've replied to a couple of comments, but they aren't deal breakers (I also forgot to review the lead, so I'll just do it here: I think the lead is good). Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 17:02, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• Explosives were also used in the construction at the hard rock under Fort Canning Hill and under the North–South Line tunnels near Dhoby Ghaut station.
  • How about Explosives were also used in hard rock beneath Fort Canning Hill?
    • Sure.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Despite opposition by the management of Clarke Quay" → "Despite opposition by the Clarke Quay management"
  • Fixed.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
• This tunnel drive was in weathered Jurong Formation rock and soft Kallang Formation soil
  • How about "passed through" in place of "was in"?
    • Sure.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Equipment essential for the operations in the CD shelter" → "Essential equipment in the CD shelter"
  • I think I will leave it as that because otherwise it won't be as clear how the CD shelter operates.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

• ZKang123 I've made a few minor revisions to the article. Rest of my suggestions are listed above. It's a fine article.

MSincccc (talk) 18:15, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• • @MSincccc: Responded.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

Second pass

• The Land Transport Authority (LTA) Deputy Chief Executive and his colleagues visited Clarke Quay for beer in 1995.
  • Do we need "for beer" here or could we avoid its insertion?
    • I mean Icepinner above questioned why both were at Clarke Quay in the first place.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 05:57, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
• Exploring the themes of reflection, both pieces were intended to what
  • We could insert "capture" before "what".
    • Ah yes, typo.
• The brush strokes give the appearance of with the river's energy and the reflections of passengers in motion.
  • Could this sentence be rephrased for clarity?
    • Fixed.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 05:57, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc (talk) 04:27, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

Bottom line

@ZKang123 All's fine then. Happy to support the nomination on prose. MSincccc (talk) 08:04, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

EG

I will look at this over the next week. However, I'll be busy with a real-life relocation and upcoming admin elections on-wiki, so this review may take me some time. – Epicgenius (talk) 16:12, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Lead:

• Para 1: "it is south of the Singapore River underneath The Central." - Not sure which of the links in Central Singapore is applicable here, but I think a link may be helpful.
  • The Central is actually a commercial and residential building on Eu Tong Sen Street, Singapore. Due to limited coverage, I guess the article was deleted (if it previously existed).--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 01:03, 28 September 2026 (UTC)
    • In that case, I would say something like "underneath The Central building". Accessedgrant (Epicgenius mobile alt) (talk) 04:38, 28 September 2026 (UTC)
• Para 2: "First announced in March 1996, the station was planned to serve the redevelopment of the Singapore River area" - I would rephrase as "... the station was planned to serve the redeveloped Singapore River area" or something similar, as "redevelopment" is solely used as a verb, and the station serves a noun ("area" or "development").
  • Rewrite: "First announced in March 1996, the station was part of plans to redevelop the Singapore River area."
• Para 2: "The construction of tunnels between this station and Dhoby Ghaut station was the second tunnel crossing under the Singapore River" - "was the second" could probably be changed to "constituted the second". Currently, this is either a singular-plural mismatch (tunnels...was) or a verb being used where a noun is expected (the construction...was).
  • Refers to the construction, but I get what you mean.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 01:03, 28 September 2026 (UTC)
• Para 2: "The station features an Art in Transit public artwork The Reflections by Chua Ek Kay." - I'd either add a comma after "public artwork", or change "an Art in Transit" to "the Art in Transit".
  • Added the commas.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 01:03, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

More later. – Epicgenius (talk) 16:16, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the early comments. Responded.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 01:03, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll get to the History section tomorrow, or when you've had a chance to respond to YuniToumei's comments, whichever is earlier. – Epicgenius (talk) 15:17, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Actually I have to push this back a week or so. Sorry about that. – Epicgenius (talk) 18:28, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

History, first 2 paras:

• Para 1: "The North East Line (NEL) project, which was first proposed in 1984, received government approval in January 1996." - Was there another project? If not, I would just say "The project, which was part of the North East Line (NEL), was first proposed in 1984 and received government approval in January 1996." Otherwise it sounds like there's a NEL project, and a project for another line.
  • The NEL project. Like, there's only one project.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 05:09, 1 October 2026 (UTC)
• Para 1: "During their visit, they decided a station should be built under Ellenborough Market," - For those not familiar with SG's geography, is this at Clarke Quay?
  • Yes, and I thought the context would be quite obvious since the LTA staff were in Clarke Quay.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 05:09, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

More in a bit, though I will be busy the rest of this week. – Epicgenius (talk) 04:02, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

YuniToumei

First part up to and including the History section. More to come later. YuniToumei (talk) 08:45, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Lead

• What is The Central? A non-singaporean reading this article might stumble a bit reading the lead trying to figure out what it is
  • Clarified that it's a building.
• and the Swissotel Merchant Court: I see you use a serial comma later in the article. Please decide on either using it or not using it, and make it consistent across the article.
  • Fixed across the article.
• The station is a Civil Defence shelter and the entrances' curvilinear features are designed to symbolise the flowing waters of the Singapore Rive: What is the purpose of connecting these two clauses together with an "and"?
  • I felt these are design features so I combined these two sentences.

History

• they decided there should be a station built under: Better to say "they decided a station should be built under"?
  • Fixed.
• was not as "centrally located" to serve: As centrally as what?
  • Along the river belt. Basically Robertson Quay is quite further away from the station, and it's suggested it could be at the boundary. Source.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:15, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
    • My point was that the comparator "as" is a bit confusing. It implies a comparison (not "as" centrally located as another building or proposed location etc.). YuniToumei (talk) 07:41, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
      • Removed the "as" then.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 02:11, 1 October 2026 (UTC)
        • The sentence still doesn't really work imo. Maybe rephrase to something like "Some property developers interviewed by The Straits Times criticised that the station was not more "centrally located" to serve the developments near Robertson Quay."? YuniToumei (talk) 07:37, 1 October 2026 (UTC)
          • Fixed as such.

Station construction

• the contiguous concrete wall panels: "The" panels? Which ones? The definite article implies the reader should already know about such panels.
  • Removed "the"
• peaty soil: Link Peaty soil
  • Done.
• sedimentary rock: Link Sedimentary rock
  • Did not do this otherwise it will be Sea of Blue. However, I just note someone seemed to just create the stub page.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:15, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• seven levels of temporary struts: I don't understand what that really implies. Seven levels vertically? Seven levels of sizes of struts?
  • Vertical.
• pre-loaded: Link Preload (engineering)
• bass heave: What is bass heave? Too technical, doesn't have a wiktionary entry.
  • Base heave is like the foundation part heaving upwards
    • What about "To provide resistance against upwards movement of the foundation (bass heave), the entrances [...]" to WP:MTAU. YuniToumei (talk) 07:41, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
      • Done as such.
• sheetpiles: Link Sheet piling
  • Done.
• jet grouted: Link Jet grouting
  • Done.
• All in all that last paragraph is rather technical, but I suppose that's how it is with construction terms. The many suggested wikilinks are a symptom of that technical-ness.

Tunnels construction

• Should the section title not just be "tunnel construction" even if there were multiple tunnels? "Tunnel" functions as a noun modifier of construction, and that feels more natural to me.
  • Fixed.
• second MRT river crossing: Were there any MRT lines that crossed the river on a bridge (as opposed to a tunnel) before this? If yes, then this would have to be specified to be crossings beneath the river.
  • Given how densely built up our city centre is, there are no MRT lines that cross the river on a bridge.
• although the first to use: Not sure why it has to be "although" and cannot just be "and"?
  • Fixed.
• minimum soil cover of one tunnel diameter [..] beneath the riverbed for tunnelling: This phrase is a bit technical, particularly the term "minimum soil cover". I assume that means that there was a layer of soil the height of one tunnel diameter between the tunnel and the riverbed? Try to rephrase this for understandability.
  • Rephrased.
• Open Faced Shield Machines: This is too technical, I don't know what that means. Try to explain in non-technical terms what those words mean.
  • It's a type of TBM. Which... honestly Im unsure how to explain and it's way beyond the scope of the article. Although this book exists to explain.
    • How about something like "two TBMs with exposed excavation heads (Open Faced Shield Machines) were used"? YuniToumei (talk) 07:41, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
      • Done.
• minor ground settlement: Link Settlement (structural)
• ground loss: What is ground loss? Technical and not in wiktionary, explain.
  • Ground loss is the volume of soil that moves into the tunnel excavation, causing the ground above or around the tunnel to deform.
    • How about something like "to stop soil moving into the excavated space (ground loss)"? YuniToumei (talk) 07:41, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
      • Added a footnote.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 02:11, 1 October 2026 (UTC)
• launch shaft: What is a launch shaft? Technical, maybe add an explanatory clause like e.g. "the launch shaft, the vertical excavation through which the TBM was lowered, was located".
  • To launch a TBM, as in to get the machine running, you have to lower it down a shaft before you "launched" it underground.
    • I'd add that explanation to the article for MTAU with something like the example I gave above. YuniToumei (talk) 07:41, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
      • Added a footnote.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 02:11, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Details

• is between the Chinatown and Dhoby Ghaut stations: I would have said "lies between Chinatown and Dhoby Ghaut stations" to change up the frequent "is" and to remove the definite article.
  • Done.
• daily from about 5:30 am to 12:25 am: The earliest and latest times I gleamed were 5.50am earliest and 12am latest
  • To tell the truth I mostly copied this info across the NEL stations... Changed to 5.50 and 12 am
• from 2.5 to 5 minutes: Trains towards HarbourFront seem to have a maximum waiting time of 5.75 minutes in off-peak times.
  • Fixed.
• The station is underneath The Central: Would say "sits underneath The Central" to avoid "is" again.
  • Done.
• is designed: I'd say was designed unless the architects are still in the process of doing so.
  • Done.
• is reminiscent: This is what the designers want you to think, but stating it as a fact in wikivoice is a problem. Intention ≠ Effect.
  • Fixed.

Replied.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:15, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

• Left 5 comments in return. YuniToumei (talk) 07:41, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
  • Replied to the comments.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 05:09, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Artwork

• reminiscent of light reflecting from the water: Dito comment about the word reminiscent
  • Fixed.
• painted eyes reminiscent of those found on tongkangs: Dito. Sufficient to say "similar to those" or so.
  • Fixed.
• early migrants in the 19th century: Would it make sense to link Immigration to Singapore#Early immigration maybe?
  • Fixed.
• silkscreened: Link Silkscreen
  • Fixed.
• rice paper: Do we know if this is Pith paper, Xuan Paper, Japanese tissue or something else on the Rice paper DAB? Rice paper seems to be a common misnomer. If you know which one, a link would be good.
  • Sources didn't seem to state
• vitreous enamel: Link Vitreous enamel
  • Fixed.
• These nostalgic tones: Similar to the comments about the word reminiscent, "nostalgic" is not an objective description
• The dancing brush strokes convey: "Dancing" is not a very neutral objective description either. And they do not objectively convey, they are intended to convey.
• Mirroring the river's ever-changing hues with the weather: This too is too fluffy a description.
• tranquil, broad strokes: Tranquil is not really objective either.
• The whole Para 2 is written too promotively, mostly because it is too close to the source it cites. Many of the sentences are rather close paraphrasing of the promotional art book. While it is okay and even encouraged to describe the artists intentions and their interpretation of their own work, presenting those intentions as fact in wikivoice is not okay. As it stands, this Para does not live up to FAC standards in my view and should be reworked significantly as a whole. Something I've seen in other Singapore MRT FACs is that the process of the creation of the artwork and the interpretation were more strictly separated, maybe that helps. Some of the technical details (silkscreening, vitreous enamel) are explained anyways in Para 4 anyways. I would recommend moving Para 4 before Para 2, move all the technical processes out of Para 2 to Para 4, and making Para 2 interpretation-only.
  • I did a fix.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 09:18, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• • • Nice work on MTAU! I've left one reply in the History section. Did the Details and Artwork sections now as well. Might give the whole article another closer pass in the next few days. YuniToumei (talk) 07:37, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

A Short Hike

Nominator(s): Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 12:44, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is about a 2019 independent adventure video game. It was brought to GA status earlier this year by me and was peer reviewed by several editors after that. Thanks to them, the article has been significantly improved. I'm open to hearing constructive feedback and cooperating with other editors during this FAC nomination. Cheers, Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 12:44, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

Questions for reviewers:

• While trying to explain several video game jargons, I did not stumble in reliable sources, therefore I ended up using definitions from Autodesk and Adobe. I might be just a bad researcher, but if there are reliable sources covering these jargons, I'll switch them out.
• Before anyone says this, yes I did look for academic articles about this game. There's like 2 or 3 articles about this game, but they're all sadly locked and cannot be accessed without a registration or a subscription, which I don't have. If someone has access to them, please send me a PDF via an email and I'll add them to the article.

Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 12:55, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• Vacant0 I've taken a look at the article and made a few revisions. However, I'm presently tied up with coursework and work elsewhere on-wiki. I might return with suggestions later. Good luck with the nomination. MSincccc (talk) 16:05, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

  Thank you. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 11:11, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

Bottom line

• I am not sure whether I have over-edited being a reviewer, but the prose looks in good shape as it is. I might return if I have any further suggestions.

@Vacant0: Happy to support the nomination on prose. Best, MSincccc (talk) 17:36, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Comments from TechnoSquirrel69

@Vacant0: I'll probably come back for a full review, but in the meantime I found two papers you should be able to access: doi:10.5209/arab.96246 and Project MUSE 909572 (via TWL). If you let me know the titles of the other papers I can look for ways to access them. —⁠TechnoSquirrel69 (talk) 16:06, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

Also sections in ISBN 9781040843819 and ISBN 9783030815387. UpTheOctave! • 8^va? 18:10, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

The two papers are: doi.org/10.5406/19407610.16.3.03 and Musical mapmaking: understanding the adaptive soundtrack in the open world adventure game A Short Hike. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 11:14, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

The first paper I provided is on MUSE (the link you provided). Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 11:53, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

I have incorporated the two papers and the two books into the article. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 13:06, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

I also came across the "Musical mapmaking" one, but that appears to be a master's thesis, which is only usable if it has had a "significant scholarly influence" (usually a handful of citations in high-quality sources is proof enough). Anyway, I didn't find a viewable copy anywhere, but this page has an email address to request one from the university. —⁠TechnoSquirrel69 (talk) 21:14, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

OK, thx. We will not use that paper then. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 13:50, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

@TechnoSquirrel69: Are you still interested? Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 12:21, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

I am indeed, thanks for the reminder. I'll try and get some comments up in the next few days. —⁠TechnoSquirrel69 (talk) 15:51, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

Alright, here come some comments! —⁠TS

• Per your own comment at a peer review for Fortnite Battle Royale, consider replacing uses of "map" with "island". I don't think this is a bit of jargon the average reader would understand, and making this replacement shouldn't lose any meaning — let me know if there's something I'm missing, though.
• If you implement the point above, I would introduce the fact that the game is set on an island in the lead.
• "works of Studio Ghibli and Joe Hisaishi" implies these are two things, when I suppose it should be something like "music by Joe Hisaishi for Studio Ghibli films".
• I'm not as familiar with video game articles, but is is typical to mention the dates and platforms for every single release in the lead? It seems excessive to me.
• "doing an activity, such as running." Doing an activity? :P I would say "taking an action", as well as mention other actions. The screenshot for this section has Claire gliding, so can that be put in?
• I'm wondering how much weight is due to the detail about the number of Golden Feathers required (or not required) to climb the peak; this also reads as excessive. Do the majority of sources discuss this detail, or just one of two?
• "he player's inventory, which is accessible at any time." I think this is very typical of video game inventories, so this might not merit mentioning.
• § Plot has two stubby single-sentence paragraphs; can these be combined with their neighbors?
• As you may have noticed, I made a few minor changes of my own. Feel free to revert and/or bring any of them up here for further discussion.

Just a start for now; this is my reading though to § Gameplay while ducking between sessions at WCNA. Let me know if you have any questions! —⁠TechnoSquirrel69 (talk) 21:15, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks! I have resolved most of these issues. Dates and platforms are common in the lede, also the number of feathers is discussed within multiple sources, so I've decided to keep it. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 10:49, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

tobie

Was the GA reviewer. I would certainly enjoy looking over this again when I have the time. tobie ^(t)(rw) 18:17, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

@Tarlby: Are you still interested? Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 12:21, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

Real life has certainly exhausted me of my time and energy, so it's unlikely I'll get to this soon. I'm sorry. tobie ^(t)(rw) 18:45, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

No problem, take care. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 09:29, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

Image review - pass

Hi Vacant0, happy to do the image review. The article contains the following images:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A_Short_Hike.png

  non-free image with a valid non-free use rationale and appropriate resolution

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_Short_Hike_Screenshot_5.png

  CC BY-SA 4.0

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_Short_Hike_Screenshot_6.png

  CC BY-SA 4.0

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_Short_Hike_logo_black.svg

  PD

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_Short_Hike_Screenshot_6_(cropped).png

  CC BY-SA 4.0

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Algonquin_Lookout_Trail.jpg

  CC BY-SA 4.0, own work

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Joe_Hisaishi_2011.jpg

  CC BY 2.0, from Flickr

Articles on computer games often have few free images, so it's nice to have several images for this one. All images are relevant to the article and placed in appropriate locations. Their captions are fine, but most images don't have alt-texts, so I suggest adding them. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:43, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

@Phlsph7: Thanks for the review. I have added the alt text. Cheers, Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 13:06, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

Looks good, that addresses the remaining concern. Phlsph7 (talk) 07:41, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 11:04, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

Support from Femke

I'm biased, in the sense that I believe our mainpage should have more quaint TFAs like this, but will try to remain neutral :).

• receive cellular recpetion -> that's repetitive anda bit too stiff. Try "get a phone signal"?
• should open world have a hyphen as a compounds modifier?
• Are the months important enough for the last 2 sentences in the 2nd para lead? Feels a bit too much detail.
• More to come. In solidarity, —Femke (talk) 🐦 12:00, 22 September 2026 (UTC)
• A Short Hike is a platformer and adventure video game;[2] a platformer being a genre in which a player travels through spaces by jumping → A Short Hike is an advantage video game and platformer[2]—a genre in which a player travels through spaces by jumping (reclaim those m-dashes!)
• The (map) is eggy, and doesn’t add much. I’d omit
• Claire can collect Golden Feathers, which determine the player’s → You’re switching mid-sentence between the in-universe and real life perspective. I would switch ‘the player’ to ‘her’, or switch to “Players can collect ..
• “The player can discover various treasures,[4] including collectable items such as coins, sticks, and shells. A shovel can also be found and used for digging treasures, as well as a fishing rod.” Awkward because ‘can also be found and used’ is wordy, and the fishing rod is tacked on inelegantly. Better might be: The player can discover various treasures,[4] including collectible items like coins, sticks, and shells, as well as tools such as a shovel for digging up buried treasure and a fishing rod.
• Some NPCs offer activities, known as minigames, that reward the player with achievements[2] and request the player to do basic tasks. → Does the ‘and request the player to do basic tasks’ explain what a minigame is? If not, the connector should be ‘or’ not ‘and’. If it is, it should be moved earlier in the sentence
• Link ‘ranger’; mild jargon
• Throughout: slight overuse of the word 'also'. For instance, It's not necessary in the sentence "He also received help from.."
• Avoid the 'being' construction per WP:PLUSING (hah, why is that page deleted..). He created two sets of goals during development: the first covered core gameplay aspects, such as movement mechanisms, dialogue, save system, and cutscenes, and the second stretch goals, such as volleyball, parkour, fishing, and wildlife.
• Robinson-Yu chose not to add voice acting, instead preferring to add sounds that simulate speech -> 'instead using sounds' for simplicity? In solidarity, —Femke (talk) 🐦 16:47, 22 September 2026 (UTC)
• After its release on Humble, Robinson-Yu worked on adding several features that he did not have time for, such as fishing, parkour races > had not had time for (both parts of the sentence are in the past tense, even though the lack of time came earlier)
• The game's art style and soundtrack have also been commended by reviewers > another example of an also in two sentences next to each other
• Erskine praised the game's colours and lighting, saying that the world looks lively, while also adding that the soundtrack is Animal Crossing-like > (can't explain why it feels a bit formulaic, maybe because the double gerund).. Erskine praised the game's colours and lighting, describing the world as lively, and noted that the soundtrack was reminiscent of Animal Crossing.
• Gipp also commended the game's controls, having said that they are "smoother than butter" > the also here seems wrong, and there are needless words. Try: Gripp commended the game's controls, calling them "smoother then butter"
• Analysis looks good, except I don't really understand " his book, he highlighted activities such as "beach-stick-ball", an NPC that lost their headband, and shell collection.". Because I have little clue what "beach-stick-ball" is, I expected the NPC bit to explain this, only to discover upon rereading that it's an enumeration instead. In solidarity, —Femke (talk) 🐦 17:27, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

  @Femke: All done. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 14:49, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

  Happy to support, noting I also reviewed this at PR. In solidarity, —Femke (talk) 🐦 16:29, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

  Thank you! Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 19:33, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Source review by Fengrímur

Hey-hey! This is a good article in many respects, and it caught my interest. Since it had not yet had a source review, I thought I'd take a look at the citations. Well, I found a few things worth raising:

• The bibliography lists Games and Narrative: Theory and Practice under its editor, Barbaros Bostan, but Refs 11 and 67 cite pp. 67–68 of "Gamifying Kindness: Toward a Praxis of the Ephemeral" by Demi Schänzel, Leanne C. Taylor-Giles and Jane Turner. The passage does describe beach-stick-ball and reflective play. The problem is the attribution: "Bostan said" in Analysis attributes the chapter authors' interpretation to the editor. Please cite the chapter itself in Sources and correct the short citations and prose. This affects 1c and 2c.
• The source mix looks sound: independent reviews in several languages and four scholarly works on the game. I do not see one outlet or viewpoint dominating. The 2010 Digital Foundry source is still fine for explaining anti-aliasing. Robinson-Yu's GDC postmortem, blog post and interviews help with development, though claims about his intentions should be attributed to him. For 1c, Analysis could make more of the scholarship. Mitchell and Van Vught, pp. 133–137 discuss the lack of failure and time pressure, digressions and Claire's anxiety about her mother's surgery; the article cites only their pp. 118 and 120 for style and mechanics. Galloway has more on sonic ecoregions. Phillips et al. (2021), pp. 11–12 discuss the game's calm aesthetics and pace through Steam reviews. I would not draw a therapeutic claim from those reviews alone — heh.
• Several reference details need fixing for 2c. Ref 34's Metacritic archive URL is malformed, Ref 35's OpenCritic archive points to the homepage rather than the game page, and Ref 2's live Adventure Gamers URL has moved to this page (the cited archive works). Refs 23 and 45 in the reviewed version (now only Ref 24 remains) used the same Verge URL under different titles; the latter incorrectly said "One Party". Ref 14 gives a September 2019 access date for a July 2025 MeriStation article. Ref 21 credits interviewee Mark Sparling as author of a Scruffy video. The Montañana-Velilla and Porta-Pérez paper is listed only under an English translation; give its Spanish title separately. Those citations need correcting.
• I would hold off on a 1c/2c pass until the errors below are fixed, especially the battle-royale description, Famitsu sum, seven-feather requirement and Bostan attribution. The award outcomes, release dates and most scores and quotations I checked were fine.

Spot-checks by Fengrímur

I checked 60/61. The article has 56 web sources and five academic works; five are cited twice, yielding 66 footnotes. Ref 21, Scruffy's music video, was the one I could not check closely as I am having browser problems. I can't say much about the uncited plot summary. For some dead pages I used archives, including Adventure Gamers and Hardcore Gamer.

• Ref 5, Gameplay/open world: Paez explains the genre but never mentions A Short Hike; thus it cannot establish that this particular game is freely explorable. Ref 4's Shacknews review does describe its open-world exploration. Replace or relocate Ref 5 (1c/2c).
• Lead, Refs 2 and 4, gliding stamina: the opening summary says Golden Feathers grant stamina for "climbing, gliding, and jumping". GameSpot distinguishes innate gliding from feathers improving climbing and midair jumps; this game guide explicitly says gliding consumes no feathers. Say feathers aid climbing, sprinting and extra midair jumps, which can indirectly extend air travel (1c precision).
• Refs 7 and 9, Gameplay/feathers: the article says a player "has to obtain at least seven" to reach the summit. The Washington Post reports that the game says hikers should have seven, and Robinson-Yu's GDC explanation describes an intended route, not a universal rule. His later PlayStation account explicitly says the summit is possible with barely any feathers, though harder. Revise "has to" accordingly (1c).
• Ref 2, Development/voice acting: Vania observes no voice acting and speech-like sounds, but does not report that Robinson-Yu "chose not to add voice acting" or preferred those sounds. Try to find a developer statement (1c).
• Ref 13, Development/Stugan: Couture names Tim Dawson and Christopher Smith as collaborators on The Secret of Dank Mountain but does not call them "co-workers". "Two other developers" is supported (1c).
• Ref 15, Development/writing: Robinson-Yu's post describes a prior writing block and his informal dialogue approach but it does not say writing A Short Hike was "the hardest" development task. MCV/Develop says writing was often hard, which supports a weaker statement (1c).
• Ref 9, Art style/point filtering: at about 5:44, Robinson-Yu describes first rendering the world to a small texture and then enlarging that texture with point filtering. "The world is rendered with a point filter mode" compresses the stages inaccurately (1c). At about 9:44, the direct quotation about the game remaining fun if stretch goals were not made differs from the available timed transcript; please paraphrase (2c).
• Ref 18, Art style/UVs: the article says UVs are "a surface of a model that is applied to a 2D model". Adobe explains mapping coordinates on a 3D model's surface to a 2D plane for texturing. Correct the reversed definition, or omit the gloss (1c).
• Ref 20, Music/instruments and "Beach Buds": Sparling told Leone he recorded guitar, mandolin and banjo live, but sampled piano and drums. The article makes all five sound live. He linked Afro-Cuban jazz to a seperate layer heard on approaching the beach, not specifically to the "Beach Buds" theme. The theme's strings are supported. Keep the layer and theme distinct (1c).
• Refs 31–33, Release/multiplayer: the article calls the 2022 mod a "battle royale" and its "single island" wording suggests a fully shared world. Rock Paper Shotgun says it is not battle royale; PC Gamer says players appear as ghosts, while objects and NPCs are not synchronized. Polygon and the developer announcement distinguish the April Fools' premise from the peaceful multiplayer mod. Say players can see one another on the same map (1c).
• Refs 36–37, Reception/Famitsu: the original Famitsu page gives 8, 9, 7 and 9 points, totalling 33/40. The article's score table has those four numbers, but its prose says 32/40, following Gematsu's erroneous arithmetic. Correct the total and preferably cite Famitsu for it (1c).
• Refs 2, 10 and 39, Reception/length: "Reviewers mostly complained" overstates a mixed response. Nintendo World Report lists "Short game" as a con but praises respect for the player's time; Nintendo Life and IGN Italy count brevity as a strength. Adventure Gamers and Push Square wished for more. State both views (1c).
• Ref 57, Awards/Golden Joystick: the table says November 16, 2019, but the cited Push Square report says the ceremony was November 15; the contemporaneous winners report is dated November 15. The nomination itself is supported. Correct the date (1c/2c).
• Ref 61, Analysis/technology: Carpenter describes the opening as implying a critique of over-engagement with technology, but explicitly says technology itself is not the problem and treats Claire's phone call as a meaningful connection. The article's "denounces how most people are overly reliant on new technologies" makes her nuanced interpretation broader and more absolute. Attribute and narrow it (1c).
• Ref 63, Analysis/bird imagery: Montañana-Velilla and Porta-Pérez, pp. 165–166 suggest that both Claire and Haven Park’s Flint may be birds as a metaphor for leaving the nest. They do not establish that Claire's developer chose her design to "literally" depict the player in that way. Present it as the scholars' proposed interpretation of the two protagonists (1c).
• Refs 11 and 67, Plot and Analysis: the cited chapter, pp. 67–68 does support the beach-stick-ball description and examples of helping NPCs, but the author attribution is wrong, as explained above (1c/2c).
• Infobox/first release: the lead and Release section acknowledge an April 2019 Humble Monthly exclusive, but the infobox starts at July 30. The developer's press kit dates first availability to April 5, 2019. Add that qualified first availability, retaining July 30 as the Steam/Itch launch; do not infer Linux availability in April from this source (1c completeness).
• Refs 2, 34 and 35, citation targets: Metacritic's live game page supports PC 82, PS4 83 and Switch 88, and OpenCritic's live game page supports 100% Critics Recommend/Mighty. Their current archive URLs point to a malformed Wayback path and the OpenCritic homepage, respectively. Adventure Gamers' current cited live URL returns 404, while the moved review and its cited archive work. Repair the URLs without discarding the supported ratings (2c).

Unfortunately, this is a fail, particularly on 1c. Let me know when this has been addressed.

Fengrímur (talk) 14:31, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

@Vacant0 _{I keep forgetting these...} Fengrímur (talk) 15:26, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

Hey, I've addressed everything until the Spotcheck section. I'll go ahead and address that later once I get back home. Heading out now. Cheers, Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 15:33, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

@Fengrímur: everything, or most of it, should've been addressed now. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 16:05, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Second-pass source review by Fengrímur

Hey! It’s definitely better, but I would not yet support it. (1c/2c)

• The added discussion of Mitchell and Van Vught and Galloway addresses my request for more use of scholarship.
• FN 22 gives the Verge title as "One Party"; the headline says "one part". GameSpot's reviewer is Khee Hoon Chan, misspelled "Khee Hoo Chan" in the article (2c).
• Sources now credits the Schänzel, Taylor-Giles and Turner chapter correctly. Analysis retains "In his book, he highlighted", a singular attribution for three authors (1c/2c).

Second-pass spot-checks by Fengrímur

• FNs 29-31, multiplayer: The article still calls the mod a "battle royale mode". Rock Paper Shotgun says battle royale was the April Fools' premise and the released mod is peaceful multiplayer. PC Gamer says players can see one another, with NPCs and items unsynchronized. Replace "battle royale mode" and the "single island" wording (1c).
• FN 61, bird imagery: The article presents the "leaving the nest" metaphor as the developer's intention. Montañana-Velilla and Porta-Pérez, p. 166 offer it as a possible reading of Claire and Haven Park's Flint. Attribute it to the scholars (1c).
• Reception/Famitsu: The corrected total is 33/40; the table's Gematsu citation prints 32/40. Remove it (2c).
• Reception/Multiplayer.it: The article says Mattia Pescitelli found the characters well-developed. His review praises the supporting characters and calls Claire's development thin. Limit the article's praise to the supporting cast (1c).
• FN 8, RPG chronology: The article says Robinson-Yu began the RPG in 2018. His GDC talk, 2:04 says he was already deep into it then; his later account dates its start to 2016. Revise the chronology (1c).
• FN 19, music: Sparling, 3:26-4:05 puts the first percussion layer in the bay, campground and western shoreline. The fifth layer changes the accompaniment along that shoreline. The article places the first layer in "town" and says the fifth adds alternative chords to "town and camps" (1c).
• FNs 2 and 4, stamina: Gameplay treats ordinary "jumping" as feather-limited. Hilhorst distinguishes this from the extra midair jumps feathers allow. The lead already gets this right (1c).
• FN 5, goal: Moore describes Claire's goal as reaching the island's mountaintop. Replace "the top of the world" with "Hawk Peak's summit" (1c).

Fengrímur (talk) 18:39, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

@Fengrímur: hopefully all is done now, hopefully... Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 19:32, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Yes, it looks great now, and because of that, I now support this becoming a featured article. Fengrímur (talk) 18:26, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Thank you so much. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 10:43, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Gommeh

Lead

• Is it important to include the developer's username, adamgryu, in the lead?
• Some readers may not be familiar with what the term "low-poly" means. Perhaps you should explain it or rephrase.

Gameplay and plot

• Not sure "that can be explored freely" is necessary since at least in my view, the term "open world" is pretty self-explanatory.
• "The player can collect up to 20 Golden Feathers." Is this important for readers to know?
• "To reach the top the intended way" sounds weirdly worded, even though I know what is meant here. I would recommend rephrasing if you can, though it's not severe enough that I would require it.
• "Items collected are stored in the player's inventory." I feel like this is kind of a no-brainer, but then again non-gamers might not be aware of this. I do query whether it's absolutely essential for this to be included, but I also understand why it might be kept.
• Ferry should maybe be wikilinked.
• I would generally recommend you double check the entire plot just to make sure you've covered everything a non-fan may consider important; I'm considering telling everyone this for video game FACs in the future, as the last thing I'd want to see is an uninformed reader missing out on important plot points.

Development

• "also known online as adamgryu" Per above, I am not sure this is necessary to include unless a lot of sources refer to him like this.
• Who are Dawn Blair, Andrew Wong and David Czarnowski? It feels like the names are being flung in succession with no explanation as to who they are or why it is important to mention them by name...
• Some of the information I feel focuses more on Robinson-Yu than on the game itself, and would perhaps be better suited for an article on him than here. I would suggest doing some minor pruning, but nothing major.
• "Robinson-Yu was inspired to create a hiking video game after his trips to national landmarks." Which nation(s) does this refer to? Canada (as alluded to in the map design section), the US, or somewhere else?
• Software testing or something similar should be wikilinked at "alpha, beta, and release candidate". Up to you what to do here. Ditto for the mention of parkour, as some may not know what that term means.
• What is Yarn Spinner? What is InControl? Are they important enough to be mentioned by name?
• "One of the first things Robinson-Yu did when starting development of A Short Hike was the art style." The grammar here seems off, I would suggest rewording it towards the end of the sentence.
• Maybe it's just me, but I'm a little confused by the phrasing of "triplanar shader".
• "When working on A Short Hike, his main inspiration was The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (2017), primarily due to its open world design. He was also inspired by the Animal Crossing series." These two sentences could be combined into one.
• The last paragraph of the music section is entirely cited to one source; I would suggest cutting the less important parts and, either moving it up into the preceding paragraph, or finding more sources that discuss it and adding them in.

Reception and analysis

• Not sure if game design needs to be wikilinked, but this is minor.
• "Khee Hoo Chan of GameSpot particularly praised the in-game activity in which you give a frog a toy shovel, which she uses to successfully create a sand castle" should be rephrased, particularly the "you" part.
• "Chan said that the park is reminiscent of the nature in real life, especially the hiking experiences." That and the few sentences after it use the word "said" repeatedly; try switching up the vocabulary so readers don't get bored.
• I feel like "The writing and dialogue have also been praised" could be expanded. Same with "the game's art style and soundtrack have been commented on by reviewers". There's not much of a good reason to have four citations next to each other if you're not going to discuss what they say in more detail IMO. Plus, the citations next to the second quote I mentioned are not in numerical order as they should be (#2, #7, #39, and #22; pretty sure there's something about that in the MOS but I can't remember where).
• "Alexis Mariel Zema of Jeuxvideo.com and Lukas Schmid of PC Games complained about camera controls." I would expand a little more on what they said exactly to make the article seem a little more neutral. It helps balance out the positive reviews from the earlier paragraphs.
• The third and fifth paragraphs of the analysis section are both only cited to one source each; I would recommend cutting the unnecessary parts and then either moving them to other paragraphs or adding more sources to them.
• "Chris Tapsell of Eurogamer described... For Nicole Carpenter of Polygon, the opening implies... She also notes..." There's tense disagreement here that may need to be fixed.
• "all have a common gameplay element, a mountain" seems clunky to me. I would recommend rewording.
• "While the gameplay in Celeste is demanding, A Short Hike and Haven Park are rather cozy games." This should not be stated in wikivoice.
• "when comapred to environments Robinson-Yu hiked through" contains a spelling error (it should be "compared").

@Vacant0: over all the article looks solid. Ping me when these have been addressed. In solidarity, Gommeh ^{(talk 🎮 sign)} 15:15, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Hello, @Gommeh:. Thanks for the review. I have addressed most of your concerns. If you'd like me to explain a few of the unaddressed ones, I can do it if you feel the need for me to do it. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 16:40, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

All good. I now support. Best of luck! In solidarity, Gommeh ^{(talk 🎮 sign)} 16:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

By the way, I did submit Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Traveler (Genshin Impact)/archive1 for FAC. Feel free to take a look, everyone! In solidarity, Gommeh ^{(talk 🎮 sign)} 17:43, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks! Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 12:29, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Crisco 1492

I keep meaning to play this...

• A Short Hike was well received by critics, who widely praised its gameplay, island design, characters, art style, writing, and soundtrack. - Is "widely" needed here, when we already have critics in general?
• Hawk Peak being an island doesn't seem relevant in the lede. Also, it doesn't appear to actually be in the article body.
• Some reviewers have, however, criticized the short length of the game, with one reviewer - I'd nix the second "reviewer"
• It won - Your previous precedents were "Some reviewers" and "One reviewer", so perhaps rework the "it"?
• The goal of the game is to reach Hawk Peak's summit,[5] and there are signs throughout the world that orient the player towards the summit. - Any way to rework and remove the second "summit"?
• However, it is possible, but harder, to reach the top with less than seven feathers - Feathers are countable, so "fewer than seven"
• Additionally, to reach high points on the island, the player has to combine movement mechanics, such as flying, running, and jumping. - Given that we mention the main movement mechanics three times this paragraph, feels like we can safely avoid mentioning them here.
• Afterwards, she finally goes to sleep. - Finally can be nixed without changing the meaning
• Any specific version of Unity?
• In December 2018, he stopped working on it and started working on A Short Hike. - Any way to avoid the double "working"?
• Some of the stretch goals would not be featured upon the game's release on Humble Bundle. - Why the conditional tense instead of the simple present (i.e., "were")?
• the texting language. - "The" feels very strange here
• The game does not contain voice acting, instead it uses sounds that simulate speech. - These are two separate sentence, so there should be a full stop or semi-colon here; right now it's a comma splice
• One of the first things Robinson-Yu did when starting development of A Short Hike was establishing the art style. - "Establish" feels like it would be more correct here.
• To create this effect in Unity, Robinson-Yu would render the world with a small texture and then enlarge it with a point filter mode. - Again, why "would" instead of "were"?
• during the autumn - Why "the autumn"? I thought in Canadian English it was "the fall" but just "autumn"
• The Algonquin Provincial Park inspired the design of the game's park. - Per that article, no need for "the" here
• Robinson-Yu intentionally wanted players to get lost while exploring the island, even adding various landmarks, to "pique people's curiosity", and collectable items,[13] such as coins, as well as paths and signs - Worth reworking to simplify?
• More "would" in the shovel paragraph
• "Critics favourably assessed the gameplay." leads right into genre discussion, rather than favourable assessments of the gameplay. Feels quite jolting
• In #Reception and #Analysis, WP:V requires that "quotations and any facts or claims challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by inline citations." I'm seeing some direct quotes where the supporting reference is several sentences distant, which I do not believe meets the requirements of WP:V.
• Watercolour in Canadian English
• In Games and Narrative: Theory and Practice, academics Demi Schänzel, Leanne C. Taylor-Giles, and Jane Turner have said that games such as A Short Hike, Far From Noise (2017), and Depanneur Nocturne (2020) encourage players to reflect their own experiences in these games. In his book, he highlighted activities such as "beach-stick-ball", an activity based off beachball, an NPC that lost their headband, and shell collection. - Two things: to reflect, or to reflect on? And, I'm not seeing the link between the two sentences. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 20:06, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

@Crisco 1492: thanks for the review. I've addressed most of your concerns. Re unity version: he does not mention it, though it was probably 2018/2019 considering that the game was developed from late 2018 to mid 2019. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 13:16, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• Support on prose - looks good. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 13:26, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Infancy Gospel of Thomas

Nominator(s): SnowFire (talk) 22:20, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

This article is on an interesting piece of early Christian literature with many variants. Despite the "infancy" in the name, it's really about 5–12 year old Jesus, not Baby Jesus. It's got some wild stories - most (in)famously, Kid Jesus miraculously kills a young playmate in a fit of pique. Really. (It's okay, he gets better later.)

One note on this topic: you can throw the vast majority of pre-2000 sources directly in the trash, as due to quirks of fate and document preservation, most 19th & 20th century scholars drew some wrong conclusions. (See the article for more on why.) There's been lots of good books & articles published more recently, though, which are relied on in the Wikipedia article. A full new monograph collection on the topic came out in 2025, as did a film adaptation (sort of) in The Carpenter's Son, which flirts with the horror aspects of a story about a kid with unlimited power. I've also run the article past some of the main scholars on the topic to get their feedback (usual disclaimer that this is not a total endorsement or anything by them). I think it covers the topic at a FA level. SnowFire (talk) 22:20, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• Suggest adding alt text

• Every image tagged with PD-old-100 also needs a US tag

• File:Roman-empire-395AD.svg: see MOS:COLOUR

• File:Jesus_and_Joseph_sowing_seeds_Gospel_of_Pseudo-Matthew_(clean)_Biblioteca_Ambrosiana_SP_II_64.jpg: AI-regenerated images shouldn't be used

• File:Infancy_Gospel_of_Thomas_(Paidika)_language_editions_chronology.svg: why is this an image rather than a chart? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:03, 8 September 2026 (UTC)
  • There is alt text, but it's of the "See caption" variety because all the captions already contain everything relevant to explain the image. My reading of the alt text guideline was that was preferred, per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility/Alternative_text_for_images#Captions_and_nearby_text. I am happy to adjust if my reading of this is wrong.
  • Done, was just the Klosterneuburger Evangelienwerk images I believe.
  • That's not "my" image so I'm not comfortable with overwriting it. I uploaded File:Roman-empire-395AD-With-Identifiers.svg and put that in instead.
  • I don't think "AI-regenerated image" is an accurate description of that image. That is normal retouching of the kind done in Photoshop / GIMP / etc. for decades. It's not AI colorization or upscaling or anything (which I agree is bad - let me state very firmly I wouldn't do that and am also opposed to inclusion of such images). The only change (which I personally verified) is just removing scan / page artifacts which aren't organic to the real image, but are from the book it was published in. Retouching tools in modern image editing software do the exact same thing. If this is a deal-breaker I can switch to the raw File:Jesus and Joseph sowing seeds Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew Biblioteca Ambrosiana SP II 64.jpg, but please compare them - it's just the same image but with more scanning artifacts.
  • It is a SVG chart, though? If you mean "the raw data", the full Graphviz code that generated it is already at the File description on Commons. If you meant "why not a text table", the sources I consulted present it as a stemma rather than a table, and I agree with them. This is most notably p. 222 of Burke's 2010 book, but as that's not online, see Gero's 1971 article on the Wikipedia library, p. 56. That version is slightly dated in contents, but is also an image form of display like this one as far as presentation. SnowFire (talk) 06:39, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments by Llewee

• The FA criteria says that a successful candidate "places the subject in context" I think the article could benefit from a brief discussion of who Jesus was and the stories that developed around him in this period.
• "many translations to new languages" - I think "different" is a better word than "new" here.
• "At least some period of oral transmission of the source material is generally believed to have occurred, either wholly or as several different stories." - Could this be rewritten in a way which is more accessable? (e.g "The contents of the Gospel is believed to have originally spread through oral storytelling, either as part of one or multiple stories.")
• "An early form of the infancy gospel circulating would make sense for the era." - Could this be explained?
• "The Latin version closes" - Is this one of mediaeval versions?
• "The Roman Empire in the late 4th century, divided between the Latin-speaking West (green, 1) and the Greek-speaking East (red, 2)" - I would suggest changing this to something like "Map of the Roman Empire in the late 4th century, showing the distinction between the..." to indicate that this is a cultural rather than political divide.--Llewee (talk) 23:01, 9 September 2026 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the review! diff of changes in this batch.
  • Jesus context: Hmm. There is context on other related early Christian literature in the "Relationship with other works" section, including the relationship with the canonical gospels and potential allusions to stories in them. But I don't want to overstate the relationship with either the Jesus of the gospels or the "historical Jesus" as this work was written at least a century afterward, and going into too much detail there might make it sound like the IGT was written by eyewitnesses and this was relevant. I went with adding an extra half-sentence of introduction in the first section as well on early Christianity and writings of the 2nd/3rd century, which is hopefully enough context. If you think more is required, open to suggestions, but a prominent wikilink to Jesus is hopefully a helper.
  • New vs. different: Switched.
  • Oral transmission: Changed the wording - does this read better? (Went with "oral tradition" as that Wikilink seems more on point, and avoids a close repetition with "stories".)
  • Early form: Changed to "Irenaeus's reference suggests that an early form of the infancy gospel circulating in the 2nd century would be plausible". That clearer?
  • Closes: Yes, that's a later Latin version. Rephrased to avoid confusion with the "early" surviving Latin manuscript.
  • Map: I think "showing" is tautological for an image caption. And I think "divided" is accurate - while the cultural split is the relevant one, there really was a political split too between the Eastern Roman Empire & Western Roman Empire that would grow more stark over time, until the Great Schism resulted in various declarations of excommunications of the other side. After Theodosius I's death, they had separate armies, separate Caesars, etc. after 395. SnowFire (talk) 03:49, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Young Jesus and his father Joseph" - "Would step-father or guardian be a better word here? Also, Saint Joseph should be linked earlier in the article and I don't think Mary, mother of Jesus is linked at all
• "displeased with seeing children work on the Sabbath" - Should this be play?
• "Jesus pronounces a curse upon the boy, and he instantly withers" - Dies or falls ill?
• "The parents ineffectively complain to Joseph." - Could this be made clearer? Did Joseph refuse to punish him?
• "Jesus kills the other boy via pronouncing a curse on him." - God, I'm starting to think the article should be added to Category:Works about serial killers :p
• "Joseph then pulls his ear" - Is this literal or a metaphor for a beating?
• "Various stories from Jesus's family life are offered." - This feels like breaking the fourth wall in a way that tends to be discouraged in plot summaries. Maybe change to something like "Jesus begins to use his powers to help his parents."--Llewee (talk) 14:17, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Translations spread from the Greek-speaking eastern Roman Empire far and wide..." - What sort of time period are we discussing? The mention of the Roman empire suggests it was reasonably fast.
• "While the invention of the printing press in the early modern period made it much easier to mass-produce identical copies of a text, the Infancy Gospel of Thomas circulated for centuries via manual transcription" - I think the wording should be tweaked to emphasise that we are talking about the pre-printing press situation. Maybe change "while" to "until".
• "rediscovered the work in 1675," - when was it lost?
• "from other manuscripts later found containing Greek A" - But wasn't Greek A written in the 19th century?--Llewee (talk) 16:20, 11 September 2026 (UTC)
  • Joseph: Most versions just refer to him as "father" (as do the canonical gospels). See this translation of Greek S which uses "his father Joseph" 4 times, no qualifiers. If you have time to burn, check out the Versions of the Infancy Gospel of Thomas article, as there are some versions that do what you suggest - the Irish version explicitly says that Joseph wasn't Jesus's father. But that's not the most common case.
  • Wikilinks: Added earlier links for Joseph & Mary. (They were linked in the family section, but linked them in the plot summary too, now.)
  • Playing on the Sabbath: To quote Burke's translation of the verse: "And a certain Jew, seeing the boy Jesus with the other children doing these things, went to his father Joseph and falsely accused the boy Jesus, saying that, on the Sabbath he made clay, which is not lawful, and fashioned twelve sparrows." So this antagonist isn't saying "I saw your son playing" which is unconvincing (and not really part of the actual Jewish law, 39 Melakhot), but he's interpreting the command against work very broadly (and "falsely" according to the author) to include any sort of makings with clay. I will admit that I have chosen a phrasing that perhaps writes this antagonist more rationally than intended (as I've written him as 'only' incorrectly interpreting the Sabbath law), as it seems possible that to some anti-Jewish Christians, what the Jew is "really" mad at is just Jesus being Jesus, and the "falsely" bit from the verse is him making up an excuse of violating the Sabbath, but really he just magically knows that Jesus=Good, This Jew=Bad, therefore they must be enemies, time to lie. But this is really getting into the weeds and can sound like editorializing.
  • Withers: Not clear if the kid died. Oldest versions like Greek S leave it at "withered" and don't elaborate. Some versions like Greek A indicate he survived ("The parents of the withered boy carried him away, lamenting his youth."). Some Latin versions indicate he died. I think it's best to just leave it at withered, which all sides agree on.
  • Punishment: Not really clear! In Greek A, the parents complain to Joseph, then immediately next scene. The complaints clearly don't change anything though. (Jesus WILL get punished after his next escapade at least.)
  • Ear pulling: I think it's most likely literal, in an era when corporal punishment of children was not unusual.
  • "Various stories": Hmm, really? I thought that outside style was encouraged. I just removed the line entirely.
  • Translations spreading: Good question, but I think the time period is covered later in the article - see the caption on the giant chart and all the dates under "Early translations". As a note, the spread in the 2nd-5th centuries is largely invisible to us today and more the matter of scholarly hypotheses than hard archaeological evidence.
  • While vs. Until: I can swap it, but I'm worried that 'until' will make it seem like a hard stop - that everyone switched over to printed editions like of Fabricus's book once it was available. But we have monks & others copying out new handwritten manuscripts as late as the 19th century, so it was still circulating by manual transcription even after the printing press was introduced, it's just that the circulation pre-printing press is the relevant part for when the earliest printed editions were created. Open to feedback here.
  • Greek A: "Greek A" can mean both the eclectic recension scholars have made as a kind of majority text (which does date to the 19th century), but also just "manuscripts that seem really close to this version in general". These were later-found manuscripts that mostly matched what Tischendorf used for Greek A, hence their classification as "Greek A" as well.
  • Thanks again! diff but per above I'm happy to make some further revisions, just wanted to check in again first (e.g. on While vs. Until). SnowFire (talk) 22:40, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation and changes, maybe it would be better to keep "while" in that case. It just seemed like a bit of an odd jump forward in time. Could the "Greek A" point be clarified? Llewee (talk) 15:53, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

Went with "other manuscripts later found that fit the Greek A recension." SnowFire (talk) 05:34, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

• "a few parallel stories that originate from this work" - Does "this work" refer to the Arabic one or the Armenian one?
• "adds an introduction that claims pseudepigraphically the book was translated" - I do wonder if it might be unhelpful to use such an obscure word. I certainly had to click on the link and would imagine it would be unknown to most readers.
• "It was popular throughout the Western church, and helped establish a number of common beliefs about the young Jesus." - maybe an example could be given here?--Llewee (talk) 20:11, 12 September 2026 (UTC)
• The title section feels rather low down in the article.
• "scholars sifting through older manuscripts" - this feels a bit informal. maybe change "sifting through" to "examining"--Llewee (talk) 23:30, 12 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Possible links with Judaism and Jewish Christianity" - I wonder if a more general title ("e.g Possible links to Jewish-Christian relations") would be a better fit here. As parts of the section discuss antisemitism and how Jews may have reacted to the text.
• "Many scholars see signs of tensions between Jews and Christians that would fit a 2nd–4th-century milieu."- I think it would be helpful to clarify that this is referring to signs within the work.
• "While of an exalted and divine status, Jesus still feels pain when his ear is pulled." - Could the significance of this be elaborated on?
• "Tony Burke writes that in biographies of powerful figures in the Mediterranean region of the era..." - This paragraph doesn't seem to fit well under "Christology debates". Maybe it could be moved to the "Relationship with other works" section?--Llewee (talk) 15:05, 13 September 2026 (UTC)
  • Armenian: It's stories originating from the IGT found in the Armenian Infancy Gospel. I guess I could chop it into even smaller paragraphs to separate the Arabic Infancy Gospel & Armenian Infancy Gospel more clearly as both just being downstream of the IGT, but I'm worried others might think the text choppy. Regardless, swapped "this work" for "the IGT".
  • pseudepigraphically: I agree, but I think we're kinda stuck with 'pseudepigrapha' as the term of art used by scholars studying apocrypha. If you want to read a source that agrees with you, check out Bart Ehrman's "Forged" - he thinks that false attributions should just be called literary forgeries. But he's not the majority of sources, probably because writing "that falsely claims" seems like picking a fight, or implying that other claims are verified.
  • common beliefs in P-Matthew: I think this would lose focus. If you check the other article, some examples from Pseudo-Matthew are an ox and donkey being present at the nativity, or a comparatively old Joseph and a young Mary (this one is less common now but was very common in the Middle Ages). But this feels a bit off-topic. (And for common beliefs originating from the IGT rather than the other parts of P-Matthew, it's mostly the content section.) If this is really an issue I'd rather just cut the line entirely rather than go deeper - I just wanted to emphasize that P-Matthew wasn't a minor or obscure work.
  • Links: I agree the current title isn't ideal, but there are some scholars who've argued for more genuine links with Judaism, notably Voicu and van Aarde. (Although not that many agree with them, and certainly not within English-language scholarship.) They would seem to be left out by restricting to relations. I'm hoping that Christian-Jewish relations still counts as a "link" with Judaism to include all of them under the same roof.
  • Signs: Done.
  • Pain: I'm trying to paint a rough picture of where the IGT's Jesus stands on the "mortal" to "deity" scale, with the disclaimer that scholars don't agree and the work has material that could argue for both sides. (There's a line in the Nicene Creed about Jesus being fully human and fully God.) The fact that it still seems possible to hurt Jesus is something more on the "mortal" side to know about for this rendition of young Jesus.
  • Christology: I moved it. (I put it there originally because the depiction of Jesus could be argued to fit "merely" a new Moses rather than a deity, but eh, you're right that it's a bit of a stretch.)
  • Thanks again. diff of changes. SnowFire (talk) 05:34, 14 September 2026 (UTC)
• "While the depiction of Jesus can be seen as shocking to later readers," - I think in general this kind of jumping around in time should be avoided.
• "Tony Burke writes that this view of Jesus fit snugly into early Christian thought." - "fits snugly" seems a bit informal, the fact that "this view" is referring to the view depicted in the text should also be clarified
• "it is on grounds of it contradicting the gospel of John saying when the first miracle of Jesus was," - I think this could be written more formally (e.g "it is on the grounds of the text contradicting the gospel of John's view of when when the first miracle of Jesus took place")
• "already a matter of a rare few" - I think this could be written more clearly (e.g. "only accessable to an educated minority")
• "making the work an early example of a children's story of the era." - This section has two references to time ("early" and "of the era") and one could probably be removed.
• " Ursula Ulrike Kaiser speculated that parents of children might have been the main audience, relieved to read stories that even Jesus had fights with other children, broke household goods, and disputed with their teachers" - If the point here is that hearing about young Jesus being naughty would reasure parents about their own children's misbehaviour then could be made more explicitly? If the current wording is kept then "their" should be changed to "his".
• " Philip Jenkins writes that the Infancy Gospel of Thomas appears to have been among the most popular Christian writings for 1500 years" - Does he say what time period?
• "back when it was assumed the work was an expurgated descendent of a heretical Gnostic work" - I would suggest taking out the word "back" here; it feels a bit informal and doesn't seem to add much.
• "The book's reputation has since improved as consensus has shifted that it was not the work of 'heretics'," - Could the time period being discussed here be made more specific, per MOS:REALTIME.
• "that rather it was the pious themselves who seemed most drawn to a tale of flashy miracles in everyday life, with verification that the God they worshipped was exceptional and powerful" - Obviously I'm not any kind of expert on the subject but this comfused me a bit. Surely "heretics" were also Christians who worshipped the Christian god?--Llewee (talk) 13:05, 14 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The dead child's parents beg Joseph afterward to teach his child "to bless and not to curse" since Jesus is killing their children." - If the section after the quote is referring to the idea that Jesus is a threat to the whole community's children that should be specified, if not then it is just repetition and can be taken out.
• "The unwise second teacher who strikes Jesus is fitting for the time period; in the classical era, a teacher striking his student would not have been uncommon." - This sentence essentially repeats the same point twice which doesn't seem necessary, especially as anyone with a casual interest in history probably assumes that children were often beaten in the past. I would suggest rewording.
• I think the gallery of images from the 14th century work is a bit excessive and seems to break up the flow of the section. Maybe keep one example in the art and culture section and see if you can fit one or two others elsewhere in the article.--Llewee (talk) 16:35, 14 September 2026 (UTC)
  • Depiction: This one I'm going to push back on some. "This view" is back-referring to "the depiction of Jesus" earlier in the sentence; I think it'd be a close repetition to write out "the depiction of Jesus" again. While I think it was clear from context, have added "in the work" to remove doubt. As far as jumping around in time - I get what you're saying, but I think this one is justified by the source. Burke 2010, p. 44: "the IGT's depiction of Jesus is more troubling to modern readers of the text than to ancient and medieval audiences." This is inherently a cross-time analysis, and it sets up the next phrase that explains that yes, despite centuries-later dubiousness, people at the time were cool with this depiction. If you feel really strongly about this, I can still move the "intro" clause to the modern section, I'm just worried a reader might be confused why Burke is saying people really believed it if we haven't introduced a reason for doubt first.
  • Snug fit: I don't think "snugly" is a problem word, but it's not a big deal. Went with "was well-aligned."
  • Contradiction: Switched to "account of when the first miracle of Jesus was..."
  • Rare few: Done.
  • Early: Done. (I was worried a pedant would dig up some ancient Babylonian short story for kids or the like centuries earlier, hence including both qualifiers, but eh, it's clear enough.)
  • Reassure: Swapped the pronoun (was thinking of generic kids but agree that it's better to keep it just to Jesus.) Added "misbehaved."
  • 1500 years: Jenkins has something of a "maximalist" position and thinks that the IGT as we know it was circulated in 150 CE, so he's claiming it was popular up until 1650. I think he's probably rounding up for emphasis and 1200 years would be a safer range (~350-1550) but also I'm not a published source. He
  • Back: Removed.
  • Time ranges: I'm a bit wary because reception isn't a monolith, but went with "21st century".
  • Heretics: Yes, but not to 19th century writers. This was before the Nag Hammadi library was discovered so they didn't have access to writings from actual Gnostics. All they had to work with were the preserved writings of proto-orthodox heresy hunters, and according to these sources the Gnostics were evil, followed sorcerers, performed secret forbidden sexual rites, ate babies, etc. (I am not making this up.). So to someone like Bishop Ellicot, the ancients wrote that the Gnostics wrote the Gospel of Thomas (which was this work maybe?), and the ancients also wrote that Gnostics were super-evil heretics who performed only a sham mockery of true Christianity. We got a more nuanced understanding in the 20th century, but it took a long while for this to filter through the system.
  • Killing: Removed. I think there might be a communal aspect, but I'm also fine with just removing it.
  • Striking: Reworded & shortened.
  • Klosterneuburger Evangelienwerk images: I wondered if this might come up at FAC. This technically isn't my contribution - if you check the article as of January 2026 you can see that this set of images is the one thing that has stayed from the version then. While I personally think Wikipedia should be more aggressive about including lots of images given how much contemporary readers like images, it is a bit much. I've moved them to a Commons gallery and linked it in External Links, and kept 3 representative examples.
  • Thanks again for your thorough review! I appreciate the feedback. diff of changes. SnowFire (talk) 03:58, 15 September 2026 (UTC)
• The article seems to be in a good condition. I'm happy to support it's promotion on the condition it passes a source review.--Llewee (talk) 15:24, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments by PanagiotisZois

I've been following up on this article's progress for some time now. Nice to finally see it being put through the FAC. I just wanted to leave this as a placeholder. I plan on coming back in the next few days with comments.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 20:15, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

Lede

1. I had a question concerning the "(Greek)" portion. Does that mean that the IGT is known as "the Paidika tou Iesou or Paidika" in the Greek-speaking world, or that these are alternative titles of Greek origin used in the English-speaking world?
2. "The oldest extant fragmentary writing dates to the fourth or fifth century". What language?
3. "and an 11th-century manuscript". The "and" isn't really necessary; though this isn't a big deal.
4. "Variants flourished that expanded the work". I think it's all right to repeat the gospel's full name here so far down in this paragraph or its abbreviated format; especially to avoid repetition with "work(s)" later on.
5. "such as where young Jesus curses and kills those who cross him". Repetition of Jesus' name.

Date of creation

1. "Irenaeus's work is dated to around 180 CE. Irenaeus". Repetition of his name. Also, the sentence is a bit too short. What do you think of "Irenaeus, whose work is dated to around 180 CE, did not give a name to the book he quoted from"?

Authorship

1. "The author of the gospel is unknown. The author was". Repetition. I'd suggest changing it to "They were". But, if you wish to keep it as is, I won't object.

Content

1. "of the child Jesus". Is "the child" necessary? As you describe his age, it's clear he's still a child.
2. "complain to Joseph, and Joseph rebukes Jesus". Repetition of his name.
3. "Jesus curses his accusers with blindness. Joseph then pulls his ear" could be changed to "When Jesus curses his accusers with blindness, Joseph then pulls his ear". This helps avoid having Jesus' name at the end and start of the two sentences, while also preventing the last two sentences from being too short.
4. First time seeing "recalcitrant"! Learned something new. :) However, taking into account accessibility, would it be better to use something like "unruly" or "defiant"?
5. "Jesus replies by saying he should be teaching himself". I'm slightly confused. Is this saying that Jesus thought he should be the one teaching Zacchaeus, or teaching his own self?
6. "when the angry parents arrive again". Why again? I'm guessing this is a different child and angry parents from earlier episodes.
7. "The second teacher strikes Jesus after Jesus". Repetition.

Composite works

1. "which likely was translated into Arabic from Syriac". Kind of obvious from the sentence it was translated from Syriac to Arabic.
2. The sentence about the Armenian version should go at the end, so that the references to the Syriac version are all together.

Title

1. I think this section should be further up in the page.

Possible links with Gnosticism

1. What does "Jesus being a font" mean?

Possible links with Judaism and Jewish Christianity

1. Some clarifications are needed. Such as, who is Annas, and why is Jesus cursing his child a link to anti-Judaism?
2. Who is Jesse?
3. The section from "The line in Isaiah 11 prophesying" to the end of the sentence needs some revision. It took me some time to realize it was meant to connect to the quote at the start of the section and how its an example of antisemitism.

Modern reception

1. Does the source provide any information as to why the popularity of the Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew waned during the Protestant Reformation?

The mischievous Jesus

1. "Jesus. Jesus" Repetition

Art and culture

1. "Jesus transforms clay sparrows on the Sabbath, and young Jesus kills". Repetition of Jesus' name.

These are my comments for the article's prose. Overall, a wonderful read. :) --PanagiotisZois (talk) 11:01, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• @PanagiotisZois: Thanks for the review! Sorry about the delay, wanted to give it a proper shake.
• Lede
  • Paidika Greek or English: Both. But the work-at-all was better-known in Byzantine Greek, of course. This work is obscure in modern Greek, i.e. you'd get a puzzled look from the priest if you walked into a random Greek Orthodox Church and asked about either form of the name, so null tell there. Disclaimer: our knowledge of the Byzantine period is limited by the surviving written sources being less plentiful than we'd like. It seems likely it was known as the Paidika in this period, yes (but probably in addition to other titles). But sources writing about it became rarer in the centuries after the Muslim & Ottoman conquests, so it's tricky to say with authority. As far as modern times, it's a recent uptick, but among scholars who hate the title "Infancy Gospel of Thomas", "Childhood of Jesus" and "Paidika" are the most common alternate titles suggested in English. For example, Stephen Davis's 2014 book near-exclusively uses "Paidika".
  • Oldest: It's Koine Greek. Do you think it's worth adding "and is in Koine Greek" here? I can add that, I just want to also be tight in the lede.
    • I think it is important to acknowledge it. Especially since the following two sentences discuss the language of the text, which quickly made me scan back and realize the fragmentary writings don't bring up their language of the text.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 09:51, 19 September 2026 (UTC)
  • And: Acknowledged and agree it works either way. Would prefer to keep as-is, think the flow is clearer with "and".
    • Understood.
  • "the work": Went with "the infancy gospel". (Since yeah, we're gonna say "the work" quite a lot in this article.)
  • young Jesus: I wanted to avoid he + him close, but sure, swapped, since the sentence does open with "Jesus".
• Date + Irenaeus: Swapped to your suggestion.
• Authorship: Agree it's a close repetition, but think it's worth it in this case where we want to drill in who we're talking about as they're an unknown person.
• Content
  • Child Jesus: It's not strictly necessary but it's emphasis, which is merited sometimes. This being a gospel about young Jesus is a core fact so stating it up-front, then going into detail with ages, seems fair to me, even if technically it's deducible from the ages.
    • Hmm... Good point.
  • Double Joseph: Swapped to he.
  • Ear pulling: I get that the sentences are short, but I think it's fine here. Opening with "When" makes it sound like Jesus cursing the accusers is a background element being relayed just to set up / explain the ear pulling, but the cursing is probably more important than the ear pulling, and worth its own sentence IMO.
  • Recalcitrant: Swapped to "defiant".
  • Teaching: Jesus is saying he should be the one teaching everyone and replacing Zacchaeus. Rephrased - take a look, that work better?
    • I assumed as such, but I wasn't 100% sure. It looks good now.
  • Angry parents: Cut "again". (Yeah, it's different parents, but it is a very similar plot beat! Ah well.)
  • Strikes Jesus: It's a close repetition but I think the sentence is confusing with too many "he"s and "hims" otherwise. Spelling it out saves puzzling out which he is which. I can still change it you really disagree, just worried about clarity - you could potentially think that the teacher is speaking back to Jesus, rather than Jesus speaking back to the teacher, without it.
• Composite works
  • Syriac->Arabic: Agreed. Cut "from Syriac." (Kept Arabic, which is a little repetitious, but someone might think it was a culturally Arabic work in another language.)
  • Armenian: Agreed, swapped.
• Title: Normally I would agree, but I think we are a bit stuck. The basics on "there sure are a lot of inconsistent titles for this work" are in the lede, but the title is weird in that normally this would slot easily in the Background sections (i.e. Date of creation, Authorship) but the title "Gospel of Thomas" and "Infancy Gospel of Thomas" are not in fact suited for the background section, they're from 1500+ years later. So secretly the "Title" section is actually "Title and publication in the post-printing-press era", and it's something of a sequel to the "Manuscripts and pre-modern translations" section as "Printed forms and modern publications". We could hypothetically move both these sections to before "Content", but then I'm worried about impatient readers who want to find out what is in the work having to wait too long to find out just what we're talking about. Open to suggestions here, though.
  • Valid points. I think leaving it as is would be fine. :)
• Jesus being a font of mystic wisdom: "Font of wisdom" is a somewhat high-falutin', pretentious way of saying that someone is dispensing great wisdom / teachings. It means "font" as in "fountain" or "spring [source]" (e.g. seen in baptismal font), except rather than water good advice comes forth. Totally fine with swapping it for another phrasing - went with "source of mystic wisdom", that work?
  • I'd say that works much better. Still, thank you for explaining the phrase to me.
• Links with Judaism
  • Annas: This is a great question, but I'm worried about keeping the length within reason. Deep diving this would probably require a spin-off article that really explored the chapters line-by-line like we have for various canonical Bible books. For the cursing, the claim is that it's not just this one child; it's a lineage curse. It's cursing their descendants, too. As for who Annas is... it's not fully clear. It's just a name on the page. Two options: A) It's just a random Jewish priest, or B) It's a reference to an Annas in the New Testament, e.g. John_18#In_the_High_Priest's_courtyard_(verses_12-27) mentions a priest named Annas active at the time of Jesus's trial. Regardless, disclaimer that this was being written 150+ years after Jesus's childhood goes here, so I don't think this is a very historically reliable guide here about a real person named "Annas" or his son. That said, regardless of if the author meant the Annas in John 18 / Acts 4 or if it was just a random name, it doesn't change too much. Your average Christian reader in the Roman Empire doesn't really care if Some Random Family in Judea had their lineage cursed. The antisemitic reading is that Jesus was cursing the Jews-as-a-whole with this, or potentially the Jewish priesthood. The very genericness allows for the expansive reading. At least according to Davis, he thinks all these botanical references were known to be talking about Jews, so therefore hostile botany = attacks on the Jews as a whole. Anyway, given all that, any suggestions on adjusting the text? Happy to give it a shot, I just don't want to get too long-winded about this one line.

• • • Hmm... I think I may have to take this piece by piece. Regarding Annas, I have to admit, when I first read the sentence, I wasn't sure if Jesus was placing a curse on the child of Annas, or hurling antisemitic slurs at him. I think this confusion arose from the double meaning of "curses" and "charged words", making me think of profanity. Would you mind slightly changing the sentence to "Jesus places a curse on the child"?
    • Connecting to the above, if the sources discuss exactly why this act can be viewed as antisemitic/anti-Judaic, it might be helpful to readers to add it in the article.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 10:03, 19 September 2026 (UTC)
  • Jesse: Jesse (biblical figure). Added a wikilink.
  • Quote callback: Added an extra sentence restating the quote.
• Modern Reception: Frustratingly... no. In fact, this is the single most weakly sourced sentence in the article. This is frustrating because this is an important thing to bring up but I genuinely cannot find any medievalists talking about why Pseudo-Matthew fell out of favor. If someone out there can find a source, that'd be fantastic. But all the sources say something like "Pseudo-Matthew was popular in the Middle Ages and maybe the first part of the early modern era" and leave it at that. They want to study it at its height, they don't discuss why it fell from favor. Mary Dzon writes about a 1477 printed edition from William Caxton, but she's still studying when the work was popular / read. So... original research warning here... but if you read sources on Luther & the Reformation & 1500s Western Christianity, Luther wanted a stricter canon. He kicked some books out of the Bible and demoted other non-Biblical sources even further. In response, the Tridentine Catholic side also made things a bit stricter as well during the Counter-Reformation and discouraged iconography based on apocryphal tales, local folk saints, etc. Also, with easier communication, scholars like Erasmus realized that a lot of apocryphal works which had skated by in monasteries due to claims of apostolic authorship were in fact super-false, which might have increased suspicion that the excuse that Jerome approved of Pseudo-Matthew and translated it from some lost Hebrew proto-Matthew was false. This was slightly embarrassing for the educated elite. None of this is definitive - plenty of works survived anyway despite this, people still knew the "Golden Legend" which took in parts of Pseudo-Matthew, and I don't know if any humanist skeptic ever "took down" P-M directly in the 1500s or if it was just a vibe shift. Unfortunately, sources on the above don't generally call out P-M by name, so I feel it would break OR guidelines to cite them. I would love it if a source decided to actually cover the decline in P-M's popularity in any detail. Anyway, I removed the bit about the Reformation & printing press for now and just have the mysterious "it declined". Which probably makes things worse, not better. But I genuinely can't find a solid source.
  • Thank you so much for this explanation! It is unfortunate that no sources detail its waning popularity explicity. Personally, I agree with most of what you said; most, cause I wasn't aware of what the Catholic side was doing during the Reformation, lol. At least in countries like England or Germany, with the Protestants adhering to a stricted canon based solely on the original Hebrew texts and disregarding everything else, I can see why the GoPS would fall out of favour.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 09:43, 19 September 2026 (UTC)
• mischievous Jesus Jesus: Rephrased.
• Rice's Jesus Jesus: Removed.
• diff of changes. Happy to continue adjusting further for the items I pushed back on some. Sorry that I couldn't deliver on the Modern Reception one - that was the cause of some of the delay, but I'm genuinely stuck there, all the places I checked struck out. SnowFire (talk) 02:42, 19 September 2026 (UTC)
  • @PanagiotisZois: Thanks for the feedback! New diff here.
  • I'm gonna email a scholar or two on the Pseudo-Matthew question. No guarantees but will ideally get a stronger source that can offer at least a scholarly guess as to the reason for the decline. SnowFire (talk) 19:09, 19 September 2026 (UTC)
    • Update: Brandon Hawk got back to me within a day, which is cool. Unfortunately it really does seem like the well is dry on sources EXPLICITLY talking about this, but he agreed Reformation-era debates were a big thing. He also notes that Marian devotion declined somewhat in the early modern period - which is weird to say, it was obviously still a huge deal, but it was titanically dominant in the Late Middle Ages, which lifted the prestige of all vaguely-Mary-and-child-and-family related literature. Hawk thinks the decline of P-M was gradual, not sudden, and there doesn't seem to have been an explicit "this text is forbidden" ever coming out against it. However, he does think Erasmus and the "vibe shift" is relevant, and recommended a source. I added the source for all that it doesn't mention Pseudo-Matthew directly, but does talk about how in the late 1400s / early 1500s, people realized that a lot of literature assigned to Jerome wasn't really written by him. (And Pseudo-Matthew, of course, was falsely claiming it was from Jerome.) See diff for the added sentence. SnowFire (talk) 18:33, 20 September 2026 (UTC)
      • I only just realized that this message wasn't here before; oops. From what I know, Mariology was and IS a big part of Catholicism; much more so than Orthodoxy or Protestantism. Given that, I can imagine that in the Catholic West, texts such as the Infancy Gospel of Thomas featuring Mary would have been "lifted", as you say. But with Protestants being critical of the Catholic Church's practices and more scrutinous of the Biblical canon, anything that didn't make the cut would have been gradually phased out.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 19:34, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

      OH! I finally fully understood what is going on with Annas and the whole branch quotation! Having said that, I do think that the paragraph would benefit from a rewrite.

      First of all, the paragraph begins by pointing out that elements in the text allude to tensions between Jews and Christians. The following sentence brings up one such example, which is great. But then it goes on "In Chapter 3", which given the wording up until this point, would make one think that this is connecting to antagonistic figures being introduced simply as "the Jews". Perhaps it would be better to have something like, "More specificially, in chapter 3...". Having said that, I don't think this is something that SHOULD change, and leaving it as is would be fine with me, if that's what you think.

      However, I do think that the section would benefit from you taking the quote at the very top of the section and placing it within the paragraph, thus making it clear to readers which quotes are being discussed. Something like "Jesus places a curse on the child of "Annas the High Priest", saying:"Your fruit (shall be) without root and your shoot shall be dried up like a branch scorched by a strong wind".

      Following this, the next sentence about the line from Isaiah 11 should explicitly connect to the previous one. Perhaps along the lines of "Jesus's curse alludes to the phrase from Isaiah 11...". PanagiotisZois (talk) 22:21, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

      Works for me. diff, moved the quote and made some minor rephrasings. I didn't want to authoritatively state that this is Definitely A Reference to Isaiah 11, though; it's what Davis thinks, for sure, and it's pretty plausible, but it's not open-and-shut as a case. SnowFire (talk) 01:03, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

      I made a few changes to the paragraph. Let me know what you think. PanagiotisZois (talk) 13:01, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

      Looks good to me. SnowFire (talk) 17:33, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

      All right. At this point, I am happy to provide my support to for the promotion of this article. It was a wonderful read and even got me interested a bit in the distribution of this text (and Pseudo-Matthew) in England; I've already found a few sources. Anyway, good work! PanagiotisZois (talk) 19:52, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

Comment by Choliamb

Just a quick drive-by comment about the Greek titles in the "Title" section, which are currently a bit of a mess (mixture of polytonic and monotonic accentuation, confusion of breathings with accents). In articles written in English and most other modern languages, polytonic accents should be generally be used for titles and quotations of ancient and mediaeval Greek works. Authors writing in modern Greek will sometimes convert ancient Greek titles from polytonic to monotonic for consistency, but that's a different matter, not relevant here. Here are the three Greek titles as currently printed in the article, with my recommendations:

(1) Θωμᾶ Ἰσραηλίτου φιλοσόφου ῥητὰ εἰς τὰ παιδικὰ τοῦ κυρίου. This one is fine; all polytonic accents, correctly applied.

(2) παιδικὰ του̂ κυρίου ήμών. This is a mixture of polytonic (παιδικὰ) with monotonic (ήμών) forms, as well as an incorrect circumflex glyph (Greek does not use the pointed circumflex) and a false double accent on ήμών, where the accent on the first syllable should instead be a rough breathing. Recommended form (polytonic): παιδικὰ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν.

(3) Τά παιδικά μεγαλεία τού δεσπότου ήμών καί σωτήρος Ίησού Χριστού. This is entirely monotonic, but again with false accents instead of breathings on the initial letters of ήμών and Ίησού. Recommended form (polytonic): Τὰ παιδικὰ μεγαλεῖα τοῦ δεσπότου ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἱησοῦ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ. In the transliteration, the false accents on the first syllables of imon and Iisou should be removed.

In the caption to the image of the Codex Sinaiticus (Tischendorf's recension B), which is also placed in the "Title" section, no Greek title is given, only an English translation. It's true that the Greek is right there in the image, so perhaps it's unnecessary, but even readers who are familiar with Greek as it is printed in modern texts may find it hard to decipher the compressed script and frequent abbreviations of the Sinai manuscript. For the record, the Greek title is Σύγγραμμα τοῦ ἁγίου ἀποστόλου Θωμᾶ περὶ τῆς παιδικῆς ἀναστροφῆς τοῦ κυρίου. The translation is accurate, although "treatise" would be a better choice for σύγγραμμα than "book". Cheers, Choliamb (talk) 14:18, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

• • @Choliamb: Thanks so much for the look! As is probably obvious, I don't actually read / write Ancient Greek, although I did totally do the start of the Duolingo Modern Greek course that teaches you to say important phrases like Το αβοκάντο στο μίνι μάρκετ είναι ροζ and the like. I put your full transcription at the Commons description (diff) and the "Versions of" article ( diff), which is more of the scholarly deep-dive article. I also swapped in your polytonic transcriptions & "treatise" - see diff, but left the transcription off here as more of a general-interest article. SnowFire (talk) 18:33, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

Happy to help. Looking at this again I see that I accidentally wrote Ἱησοῦ with a rough breathing above in number (3); it should be Ἰησοῦ with a smooth breathing (no aspirate). I've fixed it in the article too since it was my typo. Choliamb (talk) 02:01, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

Generalissima

I'll take a look at the sources here. I'll do a spot check later.

• There's a lot of inconsistency on whether sources are cited in the bibliography or citations. Some of these don't even have page numbers (eg, Frey 2015), while some are citing a span so broad its unhelpful for spot-checking (eg, Bremmer 2025). IMO, everything with pages should be converted to SFN and put in the Bibliography.
  • Side note, this isn't required but the word "bibliography" is advised against for subsections per MoS.
• The books in the Wissenschaftliche Untersuchungen zum Neuen Testament (WUNT) series do not have their publisher listed.
• Inconsistent formatting of ISBNs.
• All in all, sources seem reliable and the coverage and breadth seems good. Only ones that raise any red flags is TonyBurke.ca. I recognize this falls under expert self-coverage, but surely there would be an academically-published source we could use in its stead? Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 19:03, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for volunteering! Made some quick fixes (diff), will go back later for the Bremmer and/or other comments.

• On citation style: This one I'll play WP:CITEVAR on. The style I'm using is for Bibliography being the major, big works that require short citations due to being cited repeatedly and/or being the major works to read about a topic. When that isn't required, I think having the full citation pop up in the hover or on click is preferred, no intermediary click. That said, the Bremmer article in the monograph collection is so important & heavily cited that I'm fine with treating that like I treat the Gero article as requiring specific page cites. Will come back to this one, and anything else whose page range is "too long"...
  • Added page numbers to Frey (I was using the pageless online HTML version for why they weren't there before, but checking, there is a PDF view available that shows the physical pages, so those can be added).
  • Title: I don't think that's the case? See MOS:LAYOUTWORKS. Bibliography is discouraged as a section title for specfically the case of a section for "the works created by the subject of the article," e.g. something like John_Grisham#Works. But down in MOS:REFS on the same page, it says "Several alternate titles ("Sources", "Citations", "Bibliography") may also be used" for reference-related sections. In fairness, it does caution that 'Bibliography' may be confused with the complete list of printed works by the subject of a biography ("Works" or "Publications"), but the risk of confusion is moot here since this isn't a biography. So this is a MOS-approved title.
• WUNT: Added. (They're all Mohr Siebeck.)
• Is there a requirement that ISBNs be formatted consistently in an article? If there is I'm happy to do it, just checking. There was a 2023 RFC on mandating ISBN style that failed to find consensus to standardize them, not even within an article, but maybe things have changed since (Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)/Archive_188#RfC:_Standardizing_ISBN_formatting_(and_an_end_to_editwarring_about_it)). (Personally, I think that if there's any consistent standard, it should be "what is physically printed in the book" which is inherently not consistent, but that's just me.)
  • Oops.. I have gotten pushback on that before at a previous FAC and just thought it was part of CITEVAR without looking it to. The ISBNs are fine then. Apologies for the confusion! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 22:41, 29 September 2026 (UTC)
• TonyBurke.ca : All but one of those references are multiref's to both his published scholarly book and his website, with the book first. The book is the "real" reference; I added the website as well because the actual book is insanely expensive & rare (380 euros = 430 USD!) so I figured it is more easily checkable if I include the website as well. The one exception is the citation to raw quotes from his Greek S translation, which I believe mildly changed from what he had in 2010, so I think using the updated form should ideally be fine. SnowFire (talk) 20:47, 29 September 2026 (UTC)
  • Ah, okay! That seems like appropriate usage then. If you wanted, you could throw the published volumes into a Further Reading, but no requirement there. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 22:41, 29 September 2026 (UTC)
• diff I split out two of the monograph essays. Might split out Cielontko's as well later since it has 4 cites to it. SnowFire (talk) 04:14, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Iron Gate (Antioch)

Nominator(s): ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:31, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

A 1500-year old dam/city wall hybrid which is still not only standing, but working (sort of). Plus it has a cool name. What's not to like? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:31, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• Suggest adding alt text

• File:RUINS_OF_IRON_GATE,_ANTIOCH_ANTAKYA,_TURKEY_(cropped).jpg needs a US tag

• File:Bab_el_Hadid_Iron_Gate_2.jpg: source link is dead; when and where was this first published and what is the author's date of death? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:25, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

Nikkimaria, all should be addressed now. Thanks! ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:44, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Looks good, thanks. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:26, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments by A.Cython

I was the GA reviewer and I found the topic fascinating. The article was well written and sourced. I go through the article one more time.

• It was one of the earliest known arch dams to be built less is better, especially at the lead
• there is a contemporary technical report of its construction → a contemporary technical report of its construction survives
• previously in France → earlier in France
• Although in 1993 the Iron Gate was designated a cultural property → Although the Iron Gate was designated a cultural property in 1993 (move the date)
• The first construction, → The first structure,
• blocked with debris → blocked by debris
• There is thus → As a result,
  • Not done, doesn't fit with the rest of the sentence.
• very hard to access → difficult to access
• The devastating 2023 earthquake
  • Not done, damage emphasised in cited source.
• Mathias Döring you introduce him as an engineer, I feel it is too vague. Perhaps civil engineer or hydraulic engineer, I have not checked so double check
• 7 Most Endangered Programme briefly explain the origin of the project, is it European, Chinese, or American?
• Turkey in the main body should not be wikilinked per MOS:OVERLINK the following categories should generally not be linked: Countries (e.g., Brazil/Brazilian, Canada/Canadian, China/Chinese)
  • also by the state of Turkey
• The Iron Gate is very hard to access, and alongside the general ignorance of its architectural significance, this has meant it has never been a popular attraction → The Iron Gate's limited accessibility and low recognition of its architectural significance have contributed to its limited appeal as a tourist attraction.
  • Not done, both too close to WP:CLOP and slightly misrepresenting the source. You're right that the original sentence was too wordy though, and I've rephrased.
• had much more serious unintended consequences → also had significant unintended consequences
• There is thus little knowledge of its historical condition, and any existing information originates from studies by modern, independent academics. → As a result, little is known about its historical condition, and much of our knowledge comes from studies conducted by modern independent academics.
• do 19 cubic metres/second and 45 cubic metres/second need the convert template (?) not sure
• Downey, Glanville (1961) is missing bibliographical identifier, add "oclc = 398056"
• "Aymerich, Mario; Bond" the source has "Mario Aymerich" and "Peter Bond" as its authors, so I think the first name of the second author is missing
• (optional) perhaps it might be of benefit to the reader to separate the primary sources from secondary ones.
  • Not done, if there was more than one primary source that would be beneficial.
• Also, having a url/link for the Procopius's work would be ideal for the curious reader who might want to jump right to the primary source, Internet Archives has a version.
• of the city walls → of the city walls (to signify to the reader that this wikilink talks about the city walls of the particular city rather city walls in general) A.Cython(talk) 01:58, 5 September 2026 (UTC)
  • Done all A.Cython except where noted, thanks for the review! ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:07, 12 September 2026 (UTC)
    • Support from me, perhaps some minor prose issues can be tackled by natives. Good luck! A.Cython(talk) 02:08, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

Noleander

• I recently re-wrote the dam article, and got it through FAC, so I'm up to speed on All Things Dam.

• Continuity across major section title? The two main risks to the dam were earthquakes and floods ... Medieval history ... An incident of this nature happened during the medieval period... The end of the "Construction and design" talks about floods and earthquakes; then there is a large Section title "Medieval history" and 1st sentence is "An incident of this nature happened during ...". Which requires reader to connect prior section to current section. Every major section should be, ideally, standalone. Consider tweaking wording: "A flood happened during ..." or similar.
  • I think that would decrease the readability of the article. Every section flows to the next—that's why we don't repeat links in every section. If I just say "a flood occurred" a reader who has turned up at the section might well ask "why?" and spend a while hunting through the article, but if I say "of this nature" the reader should understand that the article has just been discussing it. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:20, 12 September 2026 (UTC)
• I find the distinction between "the dam" and the "city wall" confusing. Article starts by telling me The [dam] structure integrated a former aqueduct and bridge into its construction, and additionally carried part of Antioch's city wall. Okay, so the Iron gate is a dam, that is also acting as part of the city wall? Later I read [the flood] ... caused the collapse of a 30-metre-wide (98 ft) portion of the city wall... and The Iron Gate functioned well for many years after its collapse. I cannot quite tell what is going on. Did the city wall collapse, or did the dam collapse? I'm looking at diagram File:Antioch on the Orontes en.svg and it looks like the dam is rather small: and it functions as a segment of the city wall. But the article uses the term "city wall" 14 times, and the phrase "the dam" dozens of times, as if they are two different entities. By using both "collapse of the city wall" and "collapse of the dam" it leads readers to think they are two separate structures. Would readers benefit from replacing the phrase "city wall" with "dam", so it is clear they are the same structure? Or maybe I'm wrong, and they are two different structures. If they are two structures, the article needs a diagram that shows how they are positioned relative to each other: are they adjacent segments of the full wall? or are they parallel to each other (upstream/downstream)?
  • The third quote is confusing, I've edited it. The position of the city wall relevant to the dam has indeed confused generations of archaeologists, and so it receives considerable attention in "Construction and design". I've just received a negative response from one archaeologist on using their diagrams in the article, so I'll have to draw up a basic mockup myself, although I'm not very good at it. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:20, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

  @AirshipJungleman29 I'm pretty handy with creating diagrams (SVG Format, using Inkscape app). If you email me a diagram (either a URL to diagram, or a photo of a sketch you draw on paper) I can turn it into a Commons image. I'll ensure it is modified sufficiently to avoid diagrammatic "close paraphrasing" issues.

  Noleander (talk) 14:16, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

  Noleander, that's very generous of you! If you have access to WP:TWL, the relevant diagrams should be found at this PDF from this book: I was going to try to replicate plates 11.14 and 11.15. If that's too onerous, please do let me know, otherwise thank you very much! ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:24, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

  @AirshipJungleman29 - Yes, I see that source. I'll generate images and put them in Commons. Should be done within a few days. Noleander (talk) 14:41, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Show Ref Check Tool" warnings:
  • Döring 2020, p. 186, 190. P/PP error? p. 186, 190;
    • Fixed.
  • Inconsistent use of Publisher Location (4 with; 1 without); Missing Year/Date;
    • Not sure what you mean by this?

Those two warnings from "show Ref Check" tool are on the source Procopius. On Buildings.: (1) no year of publication; and (2) there are five books cited in the article; 4 of them have a "location" (aka city or country) field in the cite; 1 does not. The book missing "location" is an ancient source, so maybe the city or country of publication is not known? For "year" you can use "circa" if not known precisely. Noleander (talk) 14:27, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

Yes, for ancient sources the "location" parameter has little meaning; similarly I prefer not to use the "year" parameter for them. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:27, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Word "present" Diagrams of the Iron Gate in 1939 (top) and in the present (bottom). I believe the word "present" is discouraged except when in a section title as part of a range (e.g. "18th century to present"). See MOS:DATED and MOS:DATETOPRES. If the Iron Gate were to undergo significant changes in the future, that caption would become incorrect. But if "present" were instead a specific year such as "2008", it would not.
  • Good catch, adjusted.
• Foreign language italics? The Iron Gate is labelled in Latin as "Porta Ferrea". I think the MOS says all foreign words/phrases should be in italics. See MOS:FOREIGN and MOS:FOREIGNITALIC, but I'm not an expert in those guidelines, and not sure if proper names (place names) in foreign languages should be in italic (because in maps italics are often reserved for water features).
  • Also here: was the Parmenios (Παρμένιος), today called the Haci Kürüş Deresi, which carved out the gorge between Silpius and Stauris and then flowed down into the Orontes. Its colloquial name was the Onopniktes (Ὀνοπνίκτης),...
    • MOS:BADITALICS: "Some proper names—including personal names, place names, and the names of organizations—are usually not italicized as non-English vocabulary."
• More precise word & link? One significant drawback of Antioch's location was its vulnerability to hydrological events. Unless the sources talk about events other than floods, consider replacing "hydrological events" with "floods".
  • Adjusted to "processes" as the centuries-long processes of erosion and deposition are also being referred to.
• Wording (in lead) Previous attempts to corral the floodwaters into underground passageways had not fully solved the problem. Consider a more formal word for the lead, such as "divert", or perhaps "shunt". "Corral" would be a nice variant to use when repeating this fact later in the body text.
  • Done.
• Better word? Antioch suffered many troubles during the sixth century ... Is there a better word than "troubles" (which to me conjures issues similar to those in Northern Ireland)? Consider: disasters, calamities, catastrophes, or tragedies.
  • Changed to "disasters"
• Wording ...the status of many hydrographic and related buildings in Antioch.... Hydrographic means a map, so I think that should be "hydrological". Consider ... the status of many hydrological structures in Antioch ...
  • Great spot!
• That is all for now. Leaning support. Fantastic article! Noleander (talk) 13:01, 15 September 2026 (UTC)
  • My apologies Noleander, drifted away from this. Replies above. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:27, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Support on prose and MOS. I have not done an image review or source review. Fun article on a cool structure! Noleander (talk) 17:39, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Dan Bain

Nominator(s): Z1720 (talk) 03:11, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

This article is about a Canadian ice hockey player, trap-shooter and businessman who was one of the inaugural inductees of the Hockey Hall of Fame. Most of the article was written by Kaiser matias, who nominated this article twice for FA status. When I discovered the article in July 2026, I looked for additional sources (and added some) and copyedited the article text. I think this is now ready to be promoted, and look forward to your comments. Z1720 (talk) 03:11, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• I remember reviewing Amanda Asay at FAC, one of my first readings of an ice hockey player. I'll take a look here as well. Comments to follow. MSincccc (talk) 14:25, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

Early life

• Link Montreal on first mention?

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 04:37, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• "the sixth of seven children, having four sisters and two brothers." → "the sixth of seven children, with four sisters and two brothers." (or we could use a semicolon: "seven children; he had four sisters")

• Went with the reword. Z1720 (talk) 04:37, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• "...upon his arrival in Canada, he lived in Montreal before moving west" → "...upon arriving in Canada, he settled in Montreal before moving west"

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 04:37, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• "serving as a bookkeeper's apprentice" → "as a bookkeeper’s apprentice"

• Removed. Z1720 (talk) 04:37, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc (talk) 17:17, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

• @MSincccc: Thanks for the review. Responded above. Z1720 (talk) 04:37, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

Sporting career

• "At age 17, he won...; at 20 he won" → "At age 17, he won...; at 20, he won..."

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• "end of Bain’s hockey playing career" → "end of Bain’s hockey-playing career"

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• "the trophy for the national hockey championship in Canada" → "the trophy for the national hockey championship"

• Rephrased to "the trophy for Canada's hockey championship". 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

Personal life

• Link Second World War?

• Might be too common to wikilink, but I've done so. I'll change it back if needed. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• "renamed the firm after himself, Donald H. Bain Limited, and served..." → "renamed the firm Donald H. Bain Limited and served as its president."

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• He left an estate in excess of C$1 million, ($10.3 million in 2025 dollars),
  • Do we need the commas here?

• Removed. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• "donated to charity and former employees" → "donated to charity and to former employees." (parallelism)

Added. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• "apprentice at a grocery broker" → "apprentice to a grocery broker"

• Changed. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• "creating Nicholson and Bain; the firm prospered..." → "creating Nicholson and Bain. The firm prospered...
  • We could split the sentence.

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

Honours and legacy

• "inaugural induction into the Hockey Hall of Fame" → "inaugural class of the Hockey Hall of Fame"

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• "In 1949 he was elected a member of" → "In 1949, he was elected to"

• I want to keep, as it specifies what position he obtained. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• "then inducted again in 2004 with the 1911 and 1912 Winnipeg Victorias teams." → "and again in 2004 as a member of the 1911 and 1912 Winnipeg Victorias teams." (avoids repetition of "inducted")

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

Lead

• "member of the Winnipeg Victorias hockey team from 1894 until 1902 and helped" → "member of the Winnipeg Victorias from 1894 to 1902, and helped"

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• "the president of the Winnipeg Winter Club" → "president of the Winnipeg Winter Club"

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

Bottom line

• Z1720 That's all from me. I got to know about one more notable hockey player. Thanks. MSincccc (talk) 08:45, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• @MSincccc: Thanks for the review. Responses above. Z1720 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

  @Z1720 That's all then, unless there are any improvements in which I will be happy to take another look.

  Happy to support the nomination. MSincccc (talk) 15:13, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

General

• Z1720 I've a couple of comments after a re-read.

1) The article uses both dmy and mdy formats even though the template used is "Use dmy dates".

• I looked through the article and see that it uses mdy, so I changed the template to mdy. Z1720 (talk) 14:07, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

2)Bain was inducted into several halls of fame, including the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1949. Should it be "1945" here or is the International Hockey Hall of Fame intended here?

• I'm not sure which one was supposed to be highlighted, so I added (and corrected) the year for Hockey Hall of Fame and International Hockey Hall of Fame. Z1720 (talk) 14:07, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Best, MSincccc (talk) 10:27, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

@Z1720 I think the previous ping was missed. That's all from me. Best, MSincccc (talk) 13:37, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

@Z1720: Thoughts? Best, MSincccc (talk) 13:02, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• @MSincccc: Sorry for the delay. Issues addressed above. Z1720 (talk) 14:07, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

  @Z1720 No worries. After all, I realise the workload of a TFA coordinator... Best, MSincccc (talk) 14:21, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• Don't use fixed px size

• Removed. Z1720 (talk) 04:33, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• File:DanBain1900.jpg: source link is dead; when and where was this first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:04, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• I replaced the link, its now here. According to the page it was first published in 1900 and the copyright has expired. Z1720 (talk) 04:33, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• @Nikkimaria: Thanks for checking the images. Responses above. Z1720 (talk) 04:37, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

Looks good, thanks. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:43, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

Airship

As always, these are suggestions, not demands; feel free to refuse with justification.

• Lead says "helped the team win the Stanley Cup three times". I may be missing something, but only two victories are described in the body: February 14 1896 and the best-of-three in 1901. Contradiction?

• Verified from the HHoF source that he won the cup twice, so changed. Thanks for the catch. Z1720 (talk) 01:28, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

• Another one. Infobox says "Hockey Hall of Fame, 1949". Body says "In 1945, Bain was one of 12 players selected for the inaugural class of the Hockey Hall of Fame. In 1949, he was elected a member of the International Hockey Hall of Fame." Take another look.

• Fixed the year. Z1720 (talk) 01:28, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

• Another two. Infobox says playing career began in 1894. Body says he answered the ad in 1895.

• Changed to 1895 per sources. Z1720 (talk) 01:28, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

• Why wouldn't we link the free online version of Goldsborough 2016?

• Linked. Z1720 (talk) 01:28, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

• The factoid about "a bookkeeper's apprentice for a grocery broker" is duplicated between "Early life" and "Personal life".

• Removed from Early life. Z1720 (talk) 01:28, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

Otherwise, all neat and tidy. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:08, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

• @AirshipJungleman29: Thanks for the comments. Responses above. Z1720 (talk) 01:28, 5 September 2026 (UTC)
  • Support ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:17, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

1936 Liechtenstein general election

Nominator(s): TheBritinator (talk) 18:37, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

This article is about the 1936 Liechtenstein elections, arguably one of the most contentious in the country's history. I have improved to the article to what I believe to be near as good as it can be with the help of high-quality sources that I was fortunate enough to have scanned for me. Having gotten this article to GA, and now been given thorough feedback via a peer review, I now feel like this is ready to be taken to FAC. Thanks. TheBritinator (talk) 18:37, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

Note that the Gieger and Vogt books are offlines sources, but I have PDF scans of them that can be emailed or otherwise sent upon request. TheBritinator (talk) 18:37, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

Drive by comment

I think the article should follow MOS:CITEVAR, all of these sources could be converted to WP:Sfn format. Also, I'd recommend swapping the website and publisher parameters for the Historical Lexicon, along with the government websites, try to use the Publisher parameter rather than the website parameter. splains (💬/📝) 01:10, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

splains, butting in here without intending to do a full review, but WP:CITEVAR is about not changing an article's existing citation style arbitrarily. It doesn't make sense to invoke it for a request to convert sources to sfns. When an article uses sfns, there's no requirement that all of its references be sfns. FAC only requires that the style is logical and consistent - most editors will do sfns for paginated sources like books and journals and otherwise use full citations for things like news articles or websites. Changing all of the article's refs to sfns would be a lot of work for minimal benefit. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:59, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

I agree. I don't see that as a compelling reason to completely change the citation style. TheBritinator (talk) 12:46, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

NP

• Don't use fixed pixels for images
• Replace the url website name ("www.regielung.li") on ref 4 with the actual website name; link it too, if possible
• Replace ref names generated by visual editor like ":0", ":1" and so on and so forth; this script helps

Sorry, I've been really busy. Will add more comments later. NP (talk) 01:11, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

Ref names are nice to have, but not required at FAC. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:53, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

Fair enough. I still think it's a good thing to have so I'll do it myself. NP (talk) 22:56, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

@NP2026 Done the first two. TheBritinator (talk) 12:19, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• The Progressive Citizens' Party (FBP) won a majority of thirteen seats, while the Christian-Social People's Party (VP) won two. Thirteen should be changed to 13 per MOS:NUMERAL
• The LHD, despite being the smaller of the two parties, disproportionately dominated the new party, with LHD leader Otto Schaedler becoming party president, and prominent LHD member Alois Vogt becoming party secretary. This is a bit of a run-on sentence, do revise it.

That's all I got for now. I made a few changes on my own. NRP (talk) 02:28, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

@NRP Done. TheBritinator (talk) 13:50, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

Nice work. Happy to support. NRP (talk) 02:41, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

Vacant0

As someone who is heavily invested into elections, and has worked on them on Wikipedia, I'll gladly take a look at this article. Expect comments from me in the next few days. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 13:22, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

Some comments for now.

• The article is relatively short for a potential Featured Article, therefore here are some of my suggestions that could be incorporated into the article (of course, if such sources exist): possibly include how the Landtag worked, more information about the by-election, reactions.
• I usually dislike seeing references in the lede, as I don't believe that they should be there (of course, there are examples where it is appropriate to have references in the lede), and I think this is the case where we don't need the reference in the lede. I suggest moving the reference down in the body, as well as the text that it supports.
• I won't comment on the references, as I'm not really knowledgeable on sources from Liechtenstein.

@Vacant0 I completely understand what you mean about the length, but I can assure you that I've worked hard to make sure the content of this article is as broad as it can be while also staying relevant. Liechtenstein elections are not particularly big events, and the reason this one is among the largest is because it got a chapter in a book dedicated to it. The by-election, for example, is only mentioned in the respective party newspapers a few times; there wasn't really a campaign for it. At the same time, I don't particularly see the need to discuss the workings of the Landtag here aside from how it elects the government as discussed already. I feel like anything more would be irrelevant to the election itself and move into WP:COATRACK territory. Happy to discuss further. TheBritinator (talk) 23:44, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

As for the reference in the lead, I could remove it and place the information somewhere in the body, but I can't really think of a natural way to do that. Not to be WP:OTHERSTUFF, but the 1880 United States presidential election, which is a FA, doesn't seem to have a reference for the date of the election anywhere in the body nor have a citation for it. Thoughts? TheBritinator (talk) 23:44, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

I'm not saying that the article is not well-researched, it's just that the fact that most FAs are long. Nevertheless, the length does not matter, as we have much shorter FAs than this candidate. Regarding the reference in the lede, I don't mind keeping in there, it's just a personal preference to have everything sourced in the body. It's up to you whether you want to keep it. I'll take a look at the prose soon. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 12:47, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

• I see that the infobox mentions a first and second round, yet the article does not explain this.
• "The VU had received around 48%" the infobox says 46.71 which can be rounded to 47%, while the results table says 40% and 48% respectively.
• Change wikilink of corporatist state to corporate statism.
• "all except for Planken" why?
• "The new government was elected on 28 February." led by whom?

Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 12:43, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

@Vacant0 I have addressed your comments. Planken was not included as it did not have a population over 300. TheBritinator (talk) 12:50, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

Okay, you could clarify that. Support then. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 12:53, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

Comment

The 'Further information' hatnote in the Background section is wholly redundant, as the same article is already linked, more naturally, within the first three words of the following sentence. The 'See also' hatnote in the Results section could arguably be moved to the 'See also' section, although it's not completely out of place where it is now. -- Deeday-UK (talk) 13:26, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

Drive by from 1brianm7

Per MOS:NUMNOTES, The Progressive Citizens' Party (FBP) won a majority of 13 seats, while the Christian-Social People's Party (VP) won two. should either have 13 as a word, as it was before, or two as a number. 1brianm7 (talk) 02:17, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

Yes, that seems more accurate. I've changed it back. TheBritinator (talk) 09:05, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

Generalissima

I'll give this a prose review.

• Lede is good. Short, but summarizes things well. It might be worth mentioning the accusations included antisemitism and connections to Nazi Germany, since that it is obviously an important part of geopolitics in this period and one readers will likely be interested in.
• Background generally solid. Might be worth saying that Hoop had been in power since 1928.
  • The party was initially founded under the ideology of an authoritarian corporate state similar to that of Austria under Engelbert Dollfuss This sentence reads weirdly to me. "initially founded" is redundant, and saying a party was founded "under the ideology of a state" feels wrong to me. Maybe "the party initially supported the creation of an authoritarian corporatist state similar to that of Austria under Engelbert Dollfuss"? I recommend using "corporatist" because "corporate state" will likely make readers unfamiliar with the terminology think of corporations.-G
• Electoral system begs the question of who Planken was represented by - another municipality, surely, which would make them also an exception to this rule.
• Don't think we need the semicolon in the first paragraph of Campaign
• Define Ständestaat and connect it to Dollfuss, who you already mention
• Might want to link Triesenberg, Balzers, and Vaduz (and name the last as the capital) under Aftermath.
• Rest is fine. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:28, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

Hi @Generalissima thanks for the look. I have implemented your suggestions. TheBritinator (talk) 14:29, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

Looks good - was there not info on the Planken thing? Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 00:30, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

@Generalissima Planken was not represented at all. TheBritinator (talk) 07:50, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

Actually, that means the map is inaccurate. Will need to fix. TheBritinator (talk) 07:52, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

@Generalissima Done that. TheBritinator (talk) 22:58, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

Looks good to me - support. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 02:09, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

Image review by CitrusHemlock - Pass

• File:Liechtenstein Landtag 1936.svg – Looks good, though you should note that it is your own work in the source section, and PD-wpdc may be a more specific licensing template that the PD-shape license currently being used.

• File:1936 Liechtenstein general election map.png – This file should have references showing that these were the municipality borders at the time of the election and showing who won each municipality. I imagine this information is already present in one of the sources you use in the article, but it should be on the file page as well.

• File:Josef Hoop & Otto Schaedler 1938.jpg – This file is missing the requisite archival number for the Liechtensteinisches Landesarchiv license. More importantly, the PD-Liechtenstein-old-unknown license conflicts with the Liechtensteinisches Landesarchiv, the former stating that it is copyrighted but sharable with attribution, and the later stating that it is in the public domain. Additionally, this later tag does not have a reliable citation showing that the author is truly unknown. I am inclined to believe that the former tag is correct, and the latter tag should be removed.

Given the issues with two of the three images in use, this article does not currently meet the standards for FA, but they should all be easily corrected. Citrus🍋 02:27, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

@CitrusHemlock The source doesn't have the archival number, and it is PD in Liechtenstein, it has been so since 2008. I only added the first part to satisfy the US copyright situation. Getting the specific archive number would probably require contacting the archives directly. TheBritinator (talk) 07:07, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

Since the source does not state the author is unknown, and the Liechtensteinisches Landesarchiv may in fact have an author on file, I do not think the PD-Liechtenstein-old-unknown tag is suitable and it should probably be removed. The first tag looks fine though, and covers copyright both in the country of origin and the United Sates. Including the exact archive number is a nice to have, but it should be fine if there isn't one available. Citrus🍋 23:14, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

@CitrusHemlock Okay, I have removed it. TheBritinator (talk) 23:23, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

Looks good, I am passing the image review. Citrus🍋 23:59, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

As for the rest, I can adjust it later today. I don't, however, have a source that specifically says "this was the municipal borders for the 1936 elections". The municipalities date back to the middle ages. I could just say that was the source for the borders in general? TheBritinator (talk) 08:29, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

@CitrusHemlock I have updated the first two to include sources. I have also updated the map to be more comprehensive. TheBritinator (talk) 23:01, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

Looks good, thank you. Citrus🍋 23:14, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

Toadspike

I'd like to do a source review, seeing as I have access to most of the sources and speak the language. I'll be picking up where I left off in the peer review. Toadspike [Talk] 06:31, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Semiotics

Nominator(s): Phlsph7 (talk) 16:40, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

Semiotics is the study of signs and sign processes: it examines what signs are, how they form sign systems, and how individuals use them to communicate meaning. It is a broad and interdisciplinary field that originated in philosophy and linguistics and has applications to many disciplines, including anthropology, psychology, media studies, and biology. This is a level-4 vital article with over 400,000 user page views last year. Thanks to Freedom4U for their GA review and to BorgQueen and GuineaPigC77 for their PR reviews! Phlsph7 (talk) 16:40, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

Aza24

Will get to this soon. – Aza24 (talk) 06:25, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

@Aza24 Look forward to your review. BorgQueen (talk) 00:45, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

@Aza24: Thanks for taking a look! Have you had the time for some initial comments? Phlsph7 (talk) 08:17, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

@Phlsph7 I suspect one reason this article has attracted relatively few reviewers (so far only me) is that semiotics is an unusually specialized and conceptually complex subject. Can be intimidating. BorgQueen (talk) 11:49, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

I agree, this is not an easy topic to review. Aza24 hasn't been very active the last few days, so that may be the reason.

Today, I wrote short notices to the Wikiprojects philosophy and linguistics. I'll wait a few days to see if someone respond. If not, my next step would probably be to go to some user talk pages to see if someone is interested. Phlsph7 (talk) 11:59, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

Apologies @Phlsph7: and @BorgQueen:, owing to a big shift in IRL responsibilities, I'm going to have to lower my WP activity for the next few weeks. Normally I would happily print out a technical article like this and give it a read!—but it seems doubtful that I'd have the time to do so. Best of luck with the nominations – Aza24 (talk) 21:07, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

Maybe it works out another time. I wish you success with your IRL responsibilities. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:33, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

BQ

• I forgot to ask this during the peer review somehow, but which variety of English is this article using? I'm seeing "odour" and "color", which do not match. BorgQueen (talk) 16:52, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

  Hey BorgQueen, it's supposed to be American English, so I added the corresponding template and changed the spelling of odour. I didn't spot other English variant inconsistencies, but this is something easily missed. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:20, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

• Core branches: An influential categorization, initially proposed by Morris, divides semiotics into three branches: syntactics, semantics, and pragmatics. — Shouldn't you use the full name of Charles W. Morris here? He is only properly introduced later in the History section. BorgQueen (talk) 11:25, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

  Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:14, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

• Speaking of Morris, in the lede: Its main branches are syntactics, which addresses how signs are organized and combined; semantics, which addresses the relation between signs and their meanings; and pragmatics, which addresses the relation between signs and their users. — This three-part division is Morris's formulation and, if I am not mistaken, is accepted within certain traditions of semiotics. It isn't universally accepted, is it? BorgQueen (talk) 11:33, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

  This division is widely used. I changed the introduction to "It is usually divided into..." to be on the safe side. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:15, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

• Lede: Signs are entities that stand for something else, such as the word cat, which stands for a carnivorous mammal. — again, I should have said this earlier, but I have a little bit of this nagging feeling that the term entity might be too esoteric/ontological for many lay readers (and guess what, MOS:NOFORCELINK). I understand that semiotics is a highly technical and complex subject, but we really need to ensure that the lede in particular remains accessible. How about…: A sign is something that stands for something else or perhaps: Signs are things that convey meaning or represent something else. (Of course, if you have a counterargument, I'm all ears.) BorgQueen (talk) 14:23, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

  I simply replaced the term with "things", which should be more accessible. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:19, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• Lede: […] it was not until the late 19th and early 20th centuries that semiotics emerged as an independent field of inquiry. — could specify Saussure/Peirce by name here rather than leaving the emergence anonymous, since both are already named above. BorgQueen (talk) 16:50, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

  Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:23, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

• Lede: It is an interdisciplinary field that examines what signs are, how they form sign systems, and how individuals use them to communicate meaning. — I would prefer "[…] how individuals use them to produce and communicate meaning" to simply “communicate meaning", since semiotics is concerned with meaning-making, not merely communication. BorgQueen (talk) 15:37, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

  Added. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:33, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

• Definitions and related fields: Semiotics, by contrast, focuses on the meaning and meaning-making processes of messages, including the role of noncommunicative signs. — I would rephrase "meaning and meaning-making processes of messages" because it makes semiotics sound as though its object is always a message. (Your next sentence correctly shows that it isn't.) Also, I think "noncommunicative signs" is a little opaque for lay readers. How about: Semiotics, by contrast, is concerned more broadly with meaning and meaning-making, including signs that do not function as intentionally communicated messages. BorgQueen (talk) 16:02, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

  I implemented a similar formulation. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:37, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

• Signs: The sign vehicle is the physical form of a sign, such as sound waves or [...], — I think this can be phrased a little more clearly: The sign vehicle is the physical form that a sign takes, such as sound waves in spoken language or [...] (because "sound waves" by itself is somewhat abstract. Adding "in spoken language" gives the lay reader a concrete context for how sound can function as a sign vehicle.) BorgQueen (talk) 05:35, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

  I agree, that makes it more concrete. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:51, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

• Meaning, sense, and reference: For example, the term morning star is commonly used to refer to the planet Venus. The sense of a sign is the way it stands for the object or the mode in which the object is presented. For instance, the terms morning star and evening star have the same reference since they point to the same object. However, their meanings are not identical since they differ on the level of sense by presenting this object from distinct perspectives — How about: The sense of a sign is the particular way in which that object is identified or presented. For example, when morning star and evening star are both used to refer to the planet Venus, they have the same reference but different senses: morning star identifies Venus as the object visible in the morning, while evening star identifies it as the object visible in the evening. Thus, two signs can refer to the same object while differing in meaning because they present or identify that object in different ways. — In this way we can avoid the awkward repetition of "For example/For instance" and make the example more accessible for lay readers. Also, the original wording is a tad confusing as it does not explicitly mention that the term evening star can also refer to Venus (it is only implied). BorgQueen (talk) 06:12, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

  Done. I adjusted your suggestion to explain the full distinction in the first sentence. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:53, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

• Meaning, sense, and reference: Various theories of meaning have been proposed to explain its nature and identify the conditions that determine the meanings of signs — perhaps a bit redundant because "explain its nature" and "identify the conditions that determine the meanings …" sound nearly like the same claim stated twice. If you disagree, could you please explain their difference to me? BorgQueen (talk) 11:08, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

  They are closely connected. If I remember correctly, I added that phrase to cover pragmatic theories, which often focus on situations, behavioral responses, and use conditions, whereas the first part of our sentence fits the other theories better. It's not essential so we could remove that phrase if it is not helpful. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:41, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

  @Phlsph7 I've simplified the wording. Please check. BorgQueen (talk) 12:40, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

  That manages to make the text more concise. I made a slight adjustment since it is about general conditions so readers don't interpret it as a sign-by-sign analysis. Phlsph7 (talk) 16:16, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

• Meaning, sense, and reference: Pragmatic theories describe meaning based on behavioral responses and use conditions. — "use conditions" is linked to Wittgenstein's Philosophical Investigations, which surprised puzzled me because this article (Semiotics) does not mention Wittgenstein at all. In any case, I tend to question this link because it seems to violate MOS:EGG (the principle of least astonishment). BorgQueen (talk) 14:21, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

  I changed the link target to Meaning (philosophy)#Based on use and I added a short footnote on Wittgenstein to clarify the connection. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:04, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

• Types and sign relations: […] the footprint of a bear signifies the presence of a bear as a result of the bear's movement rather than a matter of convention. — slightly awkward and wordy. How about: […] the footprint of a bear signifies the bear's presence because the bear's body physically produced it, not because of any convention. BorgQueen (talk) 16:43, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

  Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:07, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

• Types and sign relations: In modern semiotics, the distinction between natural and conventional signs has been replaced by the threefold classification into […] — That is a strong claim. Is Peirce's classification really a wholesale replacement or perhaps more accurately a refinement/supplement of the natural/conventional division? Worth checking against the source I think. BorgQueen (talk) 17:08, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

  You are right that this is too strong if we interpret it as wholesale replacement rather than a shift in relative importance. I reformulated the expression. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:21, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

• Types and sign relations: The categories of icon, index, and symbol are not exclusive, […] — I think it should be The categories of icon, index, and symbol are not mutually exclusive, […]. BorgQueen (talk) 15:18, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

  Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:19, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

• (same paragraph) Other categorizations of signs are based on the channel of transmission, the intentions of the communicators, vagueness, ambiguity, reliability, complexity, and type of referent. — Most of these terms are reasonably self-explanatory, except "the intentions of the communicators". Given that intentionality is a significant distinction in semiotics, this needs to be clarified for lay readers. How about: Other categorizations distinguish signs according to such factors as their channel of transmission, whether they are intentionally produced, vagueness, ambiguity, reliability, complexity, and type of referent. BorgQueen (talk) 15:27, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

  I implemented a variation of your suggestion. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:19, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

• Types and sign relations: Symbols are signs that operate through convention-based associations. For them, the relation between sign vehicle and referent is arbitrary. — maybe I am missing something, but symbols don't necessarily have a referent, do they? I mean, "referent" is narrower than "what a symbol signifies". A referent is generally the thing in the world, or the entity, that a sign refers to. Symbols do not necessarily have that. For example, with the numeral 2, what exactly is its referent? If I write "2 apples", the numeral 2 tells us something about the number of apples. Its significance depends on a conventional numerical system. BorgQueen (talk) 18:08, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

  That's how the term is standardly defined in semiotics. For example, from Nöth 1990 (quoting Peirce): A Symbol is a sign which refers to the Object that it denotes by virtue of a law, usually an association of general ideas; from Chandler 2022: relationships between a sign vehicle and its referent ... Symbolic: based on a relationship that is fundamentally unmotivated, arbitrary, or purely conventional ... e.g. ... numbers .... To put it another way, if you find something that does not have a referent then maybe it is not a symbol or a sign in the sense of semiotics. What the referent of number "2" is depends on your philosophy of mathematics or philosophy of language. For example, according to mathematical Platonists, it may refer to an abstract object. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:36, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

  Support BorgQueen (talk) 11:29, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

  Thanks for all your help during the peer and FA reviews and for your support! Phlsph7 (talk) 12:23, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Icepinner (support)

Phlsph7 asked me if I could provide a review for this FAC, so I thought I'd give it a shot. I'll be focusing on prose and accessibility to readers (quick disclaimer: I have studied epistemology in school, but I don't really have any exposure to philosophy topics, if that helps), though I may comment on other stuff... this would also be useful for my vital article plans, I suppose. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 05:10, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

@Icepinner Finally, another reviewer! I was getting lonely in here. BorgQueen (talk) 12:42, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Great, I'm looking forward to your comments! Phlsph7 (talk) 18:44, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Definitions and related fields

• Footnote b: "Less common synonyms include significs and signology" perhaps mention that they are synonyms of semiotics?

  Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:02, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

• "their organization into sign systems (such as language)" link language? Idk, it's broad but seems contextually relevant.

  Added. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:02, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

• "because of the pervasive nature of signs" the Oxford Dictionary of English notes that "pervasive" is used for "especially of an unwelcome influence or physical effect", so it is perhaps not the best word to use in this context... maybe "ubiquitous"?

  "Ubiquitous" may be a little too strong. "Pervasive" is the term used in our sources, so we are on the safe side, e.g. from Deely 1990 quoting Sebeok: Semiosis must be recognized as a pervasive fact of nature as well as of culture; from the Routledge Companion to Semiotics: Far more pervasively, communication coincides with semiosis; from Danesi 2020: pervasiveness of sound symbolism. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:02, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

  • Fair enough. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 10:38, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

• "interact with their environment" does "environment" in this context only refer to Social environment, or is it applicable to other environments like Built environment?

  In the broadest sense, it encompasses any form of environment. For example, it could also include cases where someone sees smoke on the horizon, interprets it as a sign of fire, and decides to move in the opposite direction. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:02, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

  • Yeah, that makes sense. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 10:38, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

• "It is typically divided into three branches: semantics, syntactics, and pragmatics, which study how signs relate to objects, to one another, and to their users, respectively" the description of semantics here is different from the lead (which states "semantics, which addresses the relation between signs and their meanings"), no?

  Both characterizations are used in reliable sources. I aligned it to the expression used in the lead. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:02, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

Signs

• "signals are signs that typically trigger behavioral responses in the receiver; symptoms are automatic, non-arbitrary signs; and names(→) are extensional signs that identify one specific individual" perhaps italicise each concept in Sebeok's extension of the icons, indices, and symbols?

  Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:02, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

Sign systems

• "A text is a large sign composed of several smaller signs according to a specific code" link Text (literary theory)? The article does say that "[a text] is a set of signs that is available to be reconstructed by a reader (or observer) if sufficient interpretants are available", so I think the article's scope matches with text in the context of semiotics

  Added. Phlsph7 (talk) 11:41, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

• "like the pairs good/bad, hot/cold, and new/old" I'm not sure if this goes against MOS:/...?

  I changed it to be on the safe side. Phlsph7 (talk) 11:41, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

Core branches

No issues from what I can tell. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 10:38, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

Applications

• "Semiotics has diverse applications in the analysis of art and other media" link media to Means of communication?

  Added. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:35, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

• "the intersubjective second-person perspective" link intersubjective to Intersubjectivity?

  Added. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:35, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

Methods

• "As a result, there is no universally adopted methodology" –> "Thus, there is no universally adopted methodology" idk, I'm not too picky on that.

  Implemented. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:35, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Critical discourse analysis has a similar goal, seeking to understand how texts and social reality shape each other." link Social reality?

  Added. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:35, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

History

• "In ancient Greek thought" shouldn't the link be to Ancient Greece?

  Changed: I agree, that's the better link target. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:35, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

• I see most names with diacritics, but Nyāya doesn't; should it be consistent (noting that the lead of Mahayana-sutra-alamkara-karika does use diacritics, but its article title doesn't)?

  For the sake of consistency, I added diacritics to both terms. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:35, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Augustine (354–430 CE) drew on Stoic, Epicurean, and Christian ideas to develop one of the first systematic theories of signs" what were the Christian ideas? We already know about the Stoic and Epicurean ideas, so we might as well should know the Christian ideas.

  I added a short phrase to explain Augustine's Christian perspective. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:35, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

• I do wonder about technology's impact on semiotics following the second half of the 20th century, like computers, algorithms, or graphic design?

  I added a sentence on the rise of digital media and the internet. Some of those topics are also covered earlier in the paragraph starting with "In the field of computing, semiotics...", in the sentence starting with "Research topics in popular internet culture...", and in the subsection "Arts and media". Phlsph7 (talk) 09:35, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

That's all I have. It was an incredibly fun read, and I think it's easily digestible for a layperson (looks like all those Theory of Knowledge classes in school weren't wasted after all). Never knew semiotics could be so broad. Ping me once you've addressed all my comments. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 15:39, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

@Icepinner: Thanks for all the helpful comments! I hope I got everything. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:35, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

I forgot to reread the lead, so I'll just do it here:

• "Iconic signs operate through similarity" might want to rephrase it – people may think this only applies to signs that are well-recognised

That's all I can find. I'll support this nomination on prose and MTAU stuff. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 09:46, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

Rephrased. Thanks for the support! Phlsph7 (talk) 12:52, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• File:Charles-Sanders-Peirce.jpg - PD
• File:Ferdinand de Saussure by Jullien Restored portrait crop.png - PD
• File:Vincent van Gogh - Self-Portrait - Google Art Project (454045).jpg - PD
• File:Huella de perro..JPG - CC BY 4.0, own work
• File:Referential theory of meaning.svg - CC0, own work
• File:Saussure's dyadic model of signs.svg - CC0, own work
• File:Peirce's triadic model of signs.svg - CC0, own work
• File:Syntagmatic and paradigmatic relations.svg - CC0, own work
• File:Semiotic square2.svg - CC0, own work
• File:Common components of models of communication.svg - CC BY-SA 4.0, own work
• File:Branches of semiotics.svg - CC0, own work
• File:20240504 20240504 yellow warbler pleasant valley PD203185.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0, own work
• File:1926 Coca-Cola Refresh yourself advertisement.png - PD
• File:Engraving; bust of Hippocrates; by Paul Wellcome L0019959.jpg - PD
• File:Hindi Manuscript 884 Wellcome L0024558.jpg - CC BY 4.0
• File:Roger-bacon-statue.jpg - CC BY-SA 3.0
• File:Julia Kristeva à Paris en 2008.jpg - PD

All images are relevant and have proper alt text. That's a pass from me. NRP (talk) 00:31, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the image review! Phlsph7 (talk) 08:48, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Source review

Hello, seeing that others have tackled the image and prose sections of the article. I will be reviewing the source-to-text integrity and reliability. Cheers. Amir Ghandi (talk) 19:21, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Source-to-text integrity

This table lists 45 random passages from throughout the article (19.8% of 227 total passages). These passages contain 45 inline citations (19.8% of 227 in the article). Reference numbers refer to this revision. Generated with the Veracity user script. Amir Ghandi (talk) 19:24, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

@Phlsph7:, thanks for all of your hard work on the article. I spent the last night on the source review and I found no plagiarism or synthesising issues. I have written my only two concerns in the notes section of the table. Otherwise, this is an easy pass for source review and spotchecking. Amir Ghandi (talk) 06:08, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Hi Amir Ghandi, thanks a lot for this prompt and thorough source review! I responded to your comments in the table. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:11, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. The source review has been passed. Amir Ghandi (talk) 09:31, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Reference #	Letter	Source	Archive	Status	Notes
it examines the nature of signs, their organization into sign systems (such as language), and the ways individuals interpret and use them. Semiotics has wide-reaching applications because of the pervasive nature of signs, affecting how individuals experience phenomena, communicate ideas, and interact with their environment.
4		Chandler (2022), pp. 2–4; Danesi (2004), pp. 3–5; Cobley (2010), pp. 3–4.
Semiotic inquiry overlaps with linguistics and communication theory. Like linguistics, it is concerned with the analysis of sign systems, examining the meanings of words, how they are combined to form sentences, and how they convey messages in concrete contexts. A key difference is that linguistics focuses on language, while semiotics also studies nonlinguistic signs, such as images, gestures, traffic signs, and animal calls.
10		Chandler (2022), pp. 2–8; Zhao (2025); Deely (1990), p. 2.			Chandler (2022) is a bit broadly used here. I like to know exactly what is the page range contributing to the sentence. I managed to narrow down the page range. Page 2 is about the definition of semiotics and has a short passage on the link to communication, pages 4–5 include information about the relation between semiotics and linguistics, such as the claim that semiotics also covers non-linguistic signs; and page 8 says that semiotics is broader than linguistics. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:11, 1 October 2026 (UTC)
The term semiotics derives from the Greek word σημειωτική (sēmeiōtikē), originally associated with the study of disease symptoms.
14		books.google.com			I'll give this a pass, but you might want to consider at least cutting MW staff. I removed the citation to MW staff. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:11, 1 October 2026 (UTC)
Different types of semiosis are distinguished by the type of organisms engaging in the sign activity, such as the contrast between anthroposemiosis involving humans, zoosemiosis involving other animals, and phytosemiosis involving plants.
20		Deely (1990), pp. 29–32; Cobley (2010), pp. 318–319.
Pragmatic theories describe meaning based on behavioral responses and use conditions.
25		Nöth (1990), pp. 100–101; Speaks (2024), § 3.7 Rules of Use.
Icons are also used in animal communication: ants of the species Pogonomyrmex badius, for example, use a smell-based warning signal whose intensity and duration resemble the intensity and duration of the danger.
32		Sebeok (2001), p. 52.
Various other categories are discussed in the academic literature. Thomas Sebeok expands the icon-index-symbol classification by adding three more categories: signals are signs that typically trigger behavioral responses in the receiver; symptoms are automatic, non-arbitrary signs; and names are extensional signs that identify one specific individual.
37		Nöth (1990), p. 108; Sebeok (2001), pp. 8–9, 44–50, 59–60.
Dyadic models assert that signs have essentially two components: a sign vehicle and its meaning. An influential dyadic model was proposed by Saussure, who names the components signifier and signified. The signifier is a sensible image, whereas the signified is a concept or an idea associated with this form. For Saussure, the sign is a relation that connects signifier and signified, functioning as a bridge from a sensory form to a concept. He understands both signifier and signified as psychological elements that exist in the minds of language users. As a result, the meaning of signs is limited to the realm of ideas and does not directly refer to external objects. Focusing on language as a general model of signs, Saussure argued that the relation between signifier and signified is arbitrary, meaning that any sensible image could in principle be paired with any concept. He held that individual signs need to be understood in the context of sign systems, which organize and regulate the arbitrary connections.
41		Iskanderova (2024), pp. 12–16; Danesi (2020), pp. 18–19; Nöth (1990), pp. 59–61; Chandler (2022), p…
Another triadic model, proposed by Charles Kay Ogden and I. A. Richards, distinguishes between symbol, thought, and referent. Known as the semiotic triangle, it holds that the connection between symbol and referent is not direct but requires the mediation of thought to establish the link.
49		books.google.com			The other two check out, but I don't understand why you have cited Chandler (2022) p 14? It does not seem to be talking about the subject matter at all. I think the problem is with page 41, not with page 14. I removed it. I also added page 15 since it has the corresponding diagram. Page 14 says: This traditional semiotic triangle...not necessarily any direct relationship between the sign vehicle and the referent (Ogden and Richards 1923, 11) Phlsph7 (talk) 09:11, 1 October 2026 (UTC)
Unlike basic sign elements, the units composing a text are themselves meaningful. The meaning of a text, called its message, depends on its components. However, it is usually not a mere aggregate of their isolated meanings, but is shaped by their interaction and organization. In addition to linguistic texts, such as a novel or a mathematical formula, there are also nonlinguistic texts, such as a diagram, a poster, or a musical composition consisting of several movements.
53		Danesi (2020), pp. 96–98; Johansen & Larsen (2002), pp. 110–112.
The semiotic square is a tool to analyze the meanings of contrasting terms, such as rich/poor.
61		Danesi (2020), pp. 55–56; Nöth (1990), pp. 318–319.
The semiotic square, proposed by Algirdas Greimas, offers a more fine-grained differentiation. It relates a sign, such as rich, to three contrasting terms: its contradictory (not rich), its contrary (poor), and the contradictory of its contrary (not poor).
64		Danesi (2020), pp. 55–56.
A metonymy is a way of referring to one object by naming another closely related thing, such as speaking of a king as the crown.
71		Danesi (2020), pp. 64–65; Chandler (2022), pp. 204–205.
The trope of irony works through dissimilarity, literally expressing the opposite of what is meant, such as remarking "Great job!" after a horrible failure.
73		Danesi (2020), p. 65; Chandler (2022), pp. 207–208.
Digital codes rely on clear and precise distinctions of how signs are formed and combined, as in written language. They contrast with analog codes, which use continuous variations to convey meaning, such as seamless gradations of color in painting.
81		Johansen & Larsen (2002), pp. 7–9; Nöth (1990), pp. 208–209.
Code also plays a central role in models of communication—conceptual representations of the main components of communication. Many include the idea that a sender conveys a message through a channel to a receiver, who interprets it and may respond with feedback. Encoding is the process of expressing meaning in the form of a message using the system of a specific code. Decoding is the reverse process of interpreting the message to understand its meaning. In some cases, different codes can be used to express the same message. Similarly, messages can typically be translated from one code to another, such as transcribing a written text into Morse code.
87		encyclopedia.com
By influencing perception, codes can affect behavior by making individuals aware of possible courses of action.
90		Sless & Shrensky (2023), pp. 42–43; Johansen & Larsen (2002), p. 200.
Syntactics is not limited to language and includes the study of nonlinguistic compound signs, such as the arrangement of visual elements in geographic maps.
94		books.google.com
Biosemiotics has branches dedicated to different types of organisms, such as zoosemiotics (animals), phytosemiotics (plants), bacteriosemiotics (bacteria), mycosemiotics (fungi), and protistosemiotics (protists).
103		Brier (2006), p. 36; Cobley (2010), pp. 7, 179–181; Jansen van Vuuren & Marais (2025), § Biosemioti…
This topic is more closely examined by neurosemiotics, which investigates neural processes involved in sign interpretation and meaning-making.
106		Kull & Favareau (2023), pp. 13–14; Jorna (2009).
Several branches of applied semiotics study cultural phenomena, encompassing the systems of beliefs, values, norms, and practices shared within a society. The semiotics of culture analyzes sign systems used in cultural practices by examining the meanings and ideological assumptions they embody. It integrates findings from fields such as psychology, anthropology, archaeology, linguistics, and neuroscience. It addresses both the fundamental characteristics of culture in general and the distinctive features of specific cultural formations, such as myths, aesthetics, cuisine, clothing, rituals, and artifacts.
112		books.google.com
Related fields include semiotic anthropology, which analyzes how sign systems reproduce, transmit, and change culture,
116		Mertz (2007), p. 340.
In specific areas of culture, semiotics examines the codes and conventions they employ and the meanings they produce.
119		Danesi (2020), pp. 154–155; Johansen & Larsen (2002), pp. 150–154.
Central schools of thought in text semiotics include structuralism and post-structuralism.
125		Nöth (1990), pp. 295–298.
Other research directions in text semiotics are stylistics and rhetoric, which compare different styles and explore how texts persuade.
131		Nöth (1990), pp. 338–344.
There is substantial disagreement about the extent to which music is a semiotic activity. Some theoretical attempts treat sounds as individual signs and compositions as compound signs or messages, while others argue that sounds and compositions signify nothing beyond themselves.
138		Nöth (1990), pp. 429–431.
Computer games integrate elements from many other media and combine them with an interactive dimension. They include diverse sign elements, for example, to explain how to interact with the virtual world, set goals, provide feedback, and establish a narrative.
142		Thibault (2018), pp. 216–219; Bignell (2002).
By examining how meaning operates in the mind, it contrasts with certain aspects of biosemiotics that address sign processes without mental activity, as in genetics.
145		Brandt (2011).
For example, body language includes signifying practices like raising a thumb and other gestures, as well as facial expressions like laughing and frowning.
149		Nöth (1990), pp. 392–394, 402–403; Chandler & Munday (2011), § Body Language, § Gesture, § Facial E…
In the field of computing, semiotics has been used to describe programming languages and analyze human–computer interaction. Attempts have also been made to develop formal theories of semiotics that enable computational processes to perform semiotic analyses.
154		Tanaka-Ishii (2015), pp. 981–982, 989–991, 996–997.
Semioticians use diverse methods to analyze and compare signs and sign systems. Different domains of signs and perspectives of inquiry typically call for distinct techniques depending on the forms of representation and modes of meaning-making under study. Thus, there is no universally adopted methodology but only an interdisciplinary, loosely connected set of approaches.
162		Danesi (2020), pp. 153–154; Chandler (2022), pp. 289–290.
This dimension can be studied in diverse ways, such as comparing marked and unmarked terms to reveal how cultural norms privilege certain meanings and marginalize others.
65	b	Chandler (2022), pp. 109–118; Danesi (2020), pp. 78–83.
Although qualitative investigation is the dominant approach in semiotics, some researchers also use quantitative methods. For example, many forms of content analysis examine objective patterns found in an individual document or an entire discourse and employ statistical analysis to discover systematic patterns in sign usage. Applied to the news coverage of a violent incident, a content analyst may gather statistical information about how often the perpetrators are described as rebels rather than terrorists. Quantitative data on its own is usually not sufficient to explain complex semiotic processes, which is why content analysis is typically combined with other approaches.
169		Rothenberger & Hase (2023), pp. 137, 140; Chandler & Munday (2011), § Content Analysis; Chandler (2…
Starting in the 3rd century BCE, the Stoics defended a triadic model of signs, understanding sign vehicle and referent as material objects linked through nonmaterial meaning. In the same period, the Epicureans proposed a dyadic model, emphasizing a direct connection between sign vehicle and referent without meaning as a separate component to link them.
177		Nöth (1990), pp. 15–16; Deely (1990), pp. 109–110; Manetti (2010), pp. 19–21.
The philosopher Bhartṛhari (4th–5th century CE) developed and compared theories of meaning, arguing that sentences are the primary bearers of meaning. He asserted that cognition depends on linguistic categorization, for example, that names make it possible to individuate and perceive distinct objects.
181		books.google.com
Boethius (c. 480 – 528 CE) analyzed sign activity as a chain of signification: writing refers to speech, speech expresses mental concepts, and mental concepts represent external things.
186		Meier-Oeser (2011), § 2.2 Boethius (480–528).
William of Sherwood (c. 1200 – c. 1272), Peter of Spain (c. 1210 – c. 1277), and William of Ockham (c. 1287 – 1347) formulated contextual theories of meaning and reference.
189		Nöth (1990), pp. 18–19; Meier-Oeser (2011), § 7. The sign as a central notion in 14th-century logic.
In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, semiotics emerged as a distinct field of inquiry. The twin origins of this process lie in the works of the philosopher Charles Sanders Peirce (1839–1914) and the linguist Ferdinand de Saussure (1857–1913), who separately articulated the foundational principles of the discipline.
196		Sebeok (2001), pp. 4–5; Klyukanov (2002), pp. 916–918.
Based on Saussure's structuralism, Louis Hjelmslev (1899–1965) developed glossematics, which divides language into basic units defined only by the formal functions they play in a sign system.
201		Johansen & Larsen (2002), p. 226; Cobley (2010), pp. 237–238.
Julia Kristeva's thought combines semiotic, psychoanalytic, and feminist approaches.
205	a	Cobley (2010), pp. 249–250; Chandler (2022), p. 253.
Jakob von Uexküll (1864–1944) pioneered the study of animal and plant semiosis. He understood the interaction between organism and environment as a process of sign exchange in which individuals respond to cues that are relevant to their species-specific needs and capacities. Uexküll argued that different species inhabit distinct perceptual worlds based on their selective interpretation of cues.
208		Nöth (1990), pp. 36–37; Johansen & Larsen (2002), pp. 230.
Jacques Derrida (1930–2004) was an influential proponent of post-structuralism. He developed the method of deconstruction to discover internal ambiguities and contradictions within texts.
214		Johansen & Larsen (2002), pp. 224; Chandler (2022), pp. 275, 307; Danesi (2020), pp. 68–70.
Narrow definitions of meaning identify it with sense and contrast it with reference. Terminologically, the distinction comes from a translation of a work of Gottlob Frege, who used the German terms Sinn and Bedeutung.
21		Nöth (1990), pp. 92–94.
The meaning of this term in semiotics differs from its usage in computing, where a hypertext is a digital document that links to other documents.
57		AHD staff (2022).
A similar interpretative strategy studies textual elements that deviate from norms, conventions, or expectations. Another related approach examines how the meaning of one element is anchored by the presence of another element, like when the meaning of an image is anchored by its caption.
165		Fiske (1990), pp. 101–102, 110–111.

Refrencing

All sources seems to be of high quality and properly formatted in accordance with the manuel of style.

Vacant0

I'm signing up to review this FAC, which will most likely occur in the next couple of days (hopefully by the end of this week, I'll be busy from Monday to Wednesday next week.) Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 13:51, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Poecilia velifera

Nominator(s): Surtsicna (talk) 19:25, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

This article is about a species that gave rise to some of the world's most commonly traded fish. Its mating behavior—the big males dancing for the females, the small ones sneaking up—has fascinated researchers for decades, and when I got a hold of a video showing it in the wild, I decided that the article should match the video's exceptionality. Whether or not it does, I leave to your judgement. Surtsicna (talk) 19:25, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

As the GA reviewer for this (it was my first review) I'm delighted to see this here. I can't see any improvements that still need to be made. Support EmergentAnarchy (talk) 17:59, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• A single comment for now: I would suggest adding the relevant language template ("Use...English") to the mainspace. MSincccc (talk) 08:01, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

  Okay, let's go with Canadian. I love that it's mix and match, anything-goes-if-you-stick-by-it. And thanks a lot for your copy edits. Surtsicna (talk) 10:25, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

Bottom line

• Surtsicna It's not always that I move on to this part of my review without making any suggestions. But I found that the article's in pretty good shape as it stands, unless we move into stylistic suggestions.

I might return if I have any suggestions later. I realised earlier today that I had forgot about this FAC. Happy to support on prose. MSincccc (talk) 17:24, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

Jens

• Poecilia velifera, known as the Yucatán molly – should be "commonly known as" (as it is the common name)

Done. Surtsicna (talk) 22:38, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

• fish, birds, and crocodiles – write "crocodilians", otherwise you exclude alligators

Should I not exclude alligators? No source mentions them and their ranges do not overlap with the range of this molly. Surtsicna (talk)

Alligatoridae also includes the caimans; with "crocodile", you include them as well. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 05:34, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

I guess caimans would eat mollies, even if I do not have a source saying that. Changed to the broader crocodilians then. Surtsicna (talk) 18:09, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• as Mollienesia latipinna – give common name?

That might be confusing. The common name of P. latipinna is sailfin molly, but the subject of this article is also a sailfin molly (that being the common name of the entire clade as well). Surtsicna (talk)

• Three specimens from Progreso were imported to Germany for the ornamental fish trade; – insert a "that" ("that were imported"), otherwise you imply these are the only ones imported

Reworded. Surtsicna (talk)

• The original material—two males and one female – You link to holotype here but the holotype is only a single specimen

Indeed, the three are syntypes. Surtsicna (talk)

• Mollies are divided into two groups: shortfins and sailfins – How do these relate to the subgenera?

The subgenus is introduced first: Mollienesia (mollies). The next sentence says that mollies are divided into shortfins and sailfins. Surtsicna (talk)

• These traits likely evolved in the common ancestor of the sailfin mollies – "Last common ancestor". Also, I would write "present" instead of "evolved" (they probably evolved earlier, not in the last common ancestor itself).

The source says: "All possible phylogenetic arrangements of the sailfin clade support a single origin of sailfin species from a shortfin ancestor. This suggests that the enlarged dorsal fin and associated courtship behaviours found in males of all three sailfin species evolved in the common ancestor." Adding "last", retaining "evolved" per source. Surtsicna (talk)

I still think it's slightly imprecise, but not a big deal I guess. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 05:34, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

I would rather have it completely precise. Also, it's an opportunity for an even stronger paraphrase, so why not? Changed to "were present". Surtsicna (talk) 16:42, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• than the dorsal fins of other sailfin mollies, making it diagnostic of the species – I don't think you need the last part of the sentence. You don't explicitly mention that it is diagnostic for other features like the sail either. It is self-explanatory I think.

Indeed. Removed. Surtsicna (talk)

• Image caption: Yucatán mollies are common in still or slowly moving brackish waters. Their habitats are often structured by roots. – But what do we see in the picture? The natural habitat? Where was the photo taken?

Clarified. Surtsicna (talk)

• is most successful in freshwater conditions – The word "Conditions" is unnecessary

Indeed it is. Removed. Surtsicna (talk)

• and algae (such as Chara) are also common – Microalgae are common everywhere. "Algae" is so broad a term that it does not help; try to be more specific.

Fair point. "Algae such as Chara" should be more specific and also stay true to the cited source. Surtsicna (talk)

• browsing along substrates, stones, or submerged objects – the stones are not submerged objects?

Let's say "other objects" instead. Surtsicna (talk)

• including roundworms Contracaecum and Cucullanus; flukes – Many missing articles ("the") in this section

Added. Surtsicna (talk)

• and may also pause while swimming – I don't get it, do they pause or swim? Aren't they always swimming?

Changed to "stop swimming" for clarity. Surtsicna (talk)

• Reproductive behavior in Poecilia velifera is strongly shaped by competition – I cannot access the source; could you possibly provide me a short quote from the source (17) that is supporting this claim? Thanks.

It is difficult to provide a short quote when the sentence summarizes a large part of the cited study, but I suppose this should do: "... both P. velifera and P. mexicana larger males were able to dominate and expel intermediate and small fish from its territory through aggression ... Likewise, we found that the intermediates exclude, in turn, the small males. Typically, the large males defend the biggest territories ... due to (i) large males being competitively superior..." There is also a type of behavior summarized in the table as: "Male swims fast towards a P. velifera female orienting himself behind a female that is courted by another male..." Surtsicna (talk)

Thanks, but then, I would maybe suggest to remove it. I don't see what it adds, and what the information is that it conveys. Is there any species where reproductive behavior is not "strongly shaped by competition"? The sentence could imply that competition is stronger in this species than in other species, but your quote does not seem to support that. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 05:34, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

I agree. It is not particularly informative. Removed. Surtsicna (talk) 17:51, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• Smaller males adopt a markedly different strategy, dispensing with courtship and instead attempting quick, unannounced inseminations. Intermediate males show a more flexible approach, displaying primarily when larger competitors are absent but otherwise relying on similar rapid thrusting attempts.[38] Cryptic males avoid direct competition altogether, remaining within groups of females rather than engaging rivals. – In the lead it was two types of males. Later you were talking about three types, and now its apparently four types (dominant, smaller, intermediate, and cryptic).

This was indeed less than clear. Edited for clarity: "Males are polymorphic with respect to size and color and may be broadly divided into three size classes: large males, which are ornamented; intermediate males, which may be ornamented or unornamented ("cryptic"); and small males, which resemble females in coloration and fin size." Surtsicna (talk)

• give birth to approximately 47 fry,[39] while the average brood is about 77.[13] The smallest broods may contain as few as 10 young – link fry, keep using the same term (10 fry); otherwise a reader unfamiliar with the terminology assumes you mean something different if you use a different word.

Done. Surtsicna (talk)

• Such crosses are exceptionally rare in the wild – "Exceptionally" implies that there are few hybrids, if any, that are as rare or rarer. Is that the case?

That is a difficult question to answer. Obviously hybrids of species without overlapping ranges are going to be rarer in the wild. The source says "extremely rare". Perhaps "exceptionally" can be substituted for that. Surtsicna (talk)

You could go with "very rare", for example. This is better imo, as it does not imply that this is an "exception" (there are many hybrids in nature that do not overlap in range and are consequently very rare; such are not "exceptions" I would say). --Jens Lallensack (talk) 05:34, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

I have concluded that I do not need any emphasis. The rest of the sentence illustrates just how rare these crosses are. Surtsicna (talk) 17:56, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• American Livebearer Association – link (red-link if you think it's a relevant topic; if not relevant, consider if it should be mentioned here to begin with)

It has always been red-linked :D Surtsicna (talk)

Ah, looks like red links are not shown in mobile view, for some reason. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 05:34, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• Is it an invasive species where it was introduced? If so, what problems does it cause? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 19:57, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

Here the available sources are quite unhelpful. The Thailand source calls it an "invading" species, but then says that "the impact of non-native Poecilia velifera on an ecosystem is not clearly understood". The Libya source calls it an "invasive species", only to admit that "further studies are needed to evaluate the expected ecological impacts". Others do not comment at all. Without any discussion of its impact, I did not feel comfortable calling it an invasive species. Surtsicna (talk)

Thanks for giving it a look, Jens Lallensack. I was afraid you might miss it. Surtsicna (talk) 22:38, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

You are welcome, hope these were helpful. A few responses above. Rest looks very good and the images and videos are wonderful. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 05:34, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

They sure were. I like the changes, and I am very glad that you appreciate the media. Lots of people were contacted and they were happy to share. Surtsicna (talk) 18:03, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• Support. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 19:11, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

I am a bit concerned that the nomination is not picking up enough reviews. Perhaps @Not-cheesewhisk3rs: and @RoySmith:, who helped me out at the peer review, might have some input; or @LittleJerry: and @FunkMonk:, who put me through my paces at the Poecilia vandepolli nomination. Surtsicna (talk) 22:33, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

I'm a bit pressed for time at the moment, but I'll give it a shot if other reviewers don't get here in the meantime. FunkMonk (talk) 00:52, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

RoySmith

I've added this to WP:FACURGENT. -- RoySmith (talk) 22:40, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Can you walk me through how the {{maplink}} in Range works. If I'm reading the docs right, {"type": "ExternalData", "service": "page", "title": "Poecilia velifera distribution.map"} means the data is contained in commons:Poecilia velifera distribution.map but that page doesn't exist. -- RoySmith (talk) 00:25, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Oh, I see. It's commons:Data:Poecilia velifera distribution.map. Not exactly obvious. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:44, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

OK, I haven't done a deep dive, but I did look at it fairly closely when it was at PR and I see that all of my concerns from that review have been addressed, so Support on WP:FACR 1a (prose is engaging and of a professional standard). I will leave it to a subject-matter expert to comment on the comprehensive and well-researched aspects, as I am not qualified to judge those. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:58, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Support from Not-cheesewhisk3rs

This is a very well-written article and I really don't have anything else to add. So, support for prose and grammar per my comments at peer review. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 17:50, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Noleander

• I'm coming here from Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/FAC urgents

• Overall, the style complies with MOS. I'll note suggested improvements below.

• Overall, the prose is good.

• Map "Distribution of P. velifera (blue), P. kykesis (green), P. orri (yellow), and P. mexicana (orange) on the Yucatán Peninsula". WP:V requires a source for all the icon lat/long locations. For images, it is normally simply stated in the Commons Description page (e.g. as a website URL to the source of the data). For this map, I don't see a commons page ... is the source identified in WikiData somewhere? In any case a WP:RS is needed, and maybe you could put a citation in the caption of the map.

• ... The most striking feature ... "striking" is a bit emotive or informal. Is there a more academic word? "distinctive"?

• Book sources: use of the "location" field in the cites (to name the city of publication) is inconsistent: (4 with; 8 without)

• Book sources: some are missing ISBN. If no ISBN exists, is there an LCCN available? Following are some without ISBN:
  • Viviparous fishes (1 ed.). New Life Publications.
  • Catálogo de los peces continentales de Quintana Roo. San Cristóbal de Las Casas: ECOSU.
  • Fauna de los cenotes de Yucatán No. 8 [Fauna of the cenotes of the Yucatan No. 8] (in Spanish). Departamento de Acuacultura
  • International introductions of inland aquatic species. Rome, Italy: FAO.
  • Desarrollo científico y tecnológico para el cultivo de peces de ornato [Scientific and technological development for the cultivation of ornamental fish] (in Spanish). SEPESCA/CIQRO.

• Accessibility: Caption Distribution of P. velifera (blue), P. kykesis (green), P. orri (yellow), and P. mexicana (orange) on the Yucatán Peninsula - MOS:COLOUR says we should de-emphasize colors and prefer text or patterns instead. Colors are okay in the map itself (provided letters text are also given, which they are here). Suggest replace the colors in the caption with the letter "M" "O" etc. I see those letters are in boldface, but it is lowercaes and not very noticeable.

• Red link for author-link Stoye, Frederick Hans. Not a big deal, but it is very rare to see red links for author names in cites. Is it a spelling error? Or do you think that this person really deserves a WP article?
  • Drive by: they do have an entry at species:Frederick Hans Stoye. I don't know what the MOS says about x-wiki author links, but that's a possibility. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:17, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

• ... in progress ... Noleander (talk) 13:26, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Dead Island Reveal Trailer

Nominator(s): Z1720 (talk), OceanHok (talk) 14:16, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

This article is about one of the most effective announcement trailers ever released for a video game. The trailer's plot centred on a family experiencing a zombie outbreak during their vacation and was emotionally impactful for its audience. However, the trailer did not include any gameplay footage (which might be helpful when advertising a video game) and its plot and tone were completely different than what the final game offered. OceanHok created the article and successfully nominated it to GAN in 2016. I made some edits earlier this year and Z. Patterson commented on the article's PR. I think this now fulfils the FA criteria; thank you to everyone who reviews the article. Z1720 (talk) 14:16, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Hello! I've started working on a source review for this article and should have it posted later today. Fengrímur (talk) 15:27, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

Source review by Fengrímur

Hey-hey! This is my second source review of a video game-related article today, and this one caught my interest. Since it had not yet received a source review, I thought I'd take a look at the citations. I found a few things worth raising:

• Most sources are games journalism. The 2011 reports are useful for production history and contemporary reaction, and no single outlet dominates. Development leans heavily on interviews with Axis and Deep Silver; Ref 12 at GamesIndustry.biz is a republished Deep Silver/Techland press release. Attribute the participants' intentions to them. Their interviews alone cannot properly establish the trailer's effect on audiences or sales.

replaced the press release. The original article was only used to support the involvement of Audiomotion and Dimensional Imaging.

• The article has no journal or book citations. For 1c, I would look at Roh Chul-hwan's 2015 study of the 2011 trailer's time order and 2017 comparison of the two trailers; Eric Freedman in Game Studies 18(3) (2018), who treats the trailer as a separate short animation and contrasts it with the game; and Schott, van Vught and Marczak (2013), pp. 5-6 on how participants inferred gameplay from the trailer. Personally I checked the English abstracts of the Roh papers. Schott and colleagues studied an all-male group, so their findings should not be generalized to all viewers.

Journal articles are... not my area of expertise, so I may need some help from @Z1720:

• The article is too certain about the trailer's impact. In Ref 13, Borkel says players had grown warier of cinematic trailers, but also says he does not think Dead Island drastically changed anything. Game Developer's 2012 account gives executive producer Guido Eickmeyer's view that the trailer drew attention while the game itself sustained sales. That is his view, thus not an independent finding. The claims that this trailer caused a shift in players' skepticism and raised both companies' popularity need stronger evidence or narrower wording (1c).

Removed. The article did not make any statement connecting the trailer to the actual sales of the game though.

• The references need some cleanup for 2c. Ref 8's Eurogamer report is dated 6 July 2009, not 7 June. Ref 7's Kotaku interview is dated 4 March 2011, not 3 April. Ref 24's Wired piece is from 19 February 2011, not 2021, and its byline is "Z". Ref 37 names IGN's Marty Sliva as "Silva"; Ref 41 names Vice's Sean Cleaver as "Clever"; Ref 49 names GamesRadar+'s Sam Prell as "Prett" and gives 31 May 2016 rather than 27 May. Refs 25 and 46 cite the same Game Informer article through different platform URLs. They should probably share a reference. Ref 10's Develop URL has moved to MCV; the cited archive keeps Rob Crossley's original byline. Ref 35 omits the staff byline of the VideoGamer.com feature. Ref 32 links to wired.com but calls the work Wired.co.uk; check which edition to name.

done

• The article does not yet meet 1c or 2c (wrong Borderlands title, unsupported view totals, misattributed decisions and overstatements).

done

Spot-checks by Fengrímur

I checked all 49 numbered references in the current revision of Dead Island Reveal Trailer (48 different works). Though I did not watch the Kotaku Ref 4 footage or the IGN upload all the way through.

• Ref 3, Plot/reverse storytelling: MacDonald describes the reverse narrative, but not slow motion. The trailer also cuts to forward-moving scenes. Aitken, Ref 16 explains both. Change "The story is presented in reverse chronological order and in slow motion" to "Much of the trailer plays in reverse slow motion, intercut with forward-moving scenes", and cite Aitken too (1c).

done

• Plot/bite and virus: "A zombie bites the daughter's legs, causing her to become infected with the zombie virus" asserts a mechanism neither shown in the trailer nor established by nearby Ref 3. Techland's brand manager told Kotaku, Ref 7 that the outbreak's cause was deliberately mysterious. Say she is bitten and later turns into a zombie. Drop "virus" unless it has a source (1c/no original research).

done

• Refs 4 and 26, Plot/parents' remains: Kotaku's accompanying text describes a bloody room in the game connected to the trailer family, but does not identify two parent corpses. Hamilton, Ref 26 says the family's bodies appear in the opening hotel level. Cite Hamilton here, and check the embedded footage before retaining the more specific "the couple" (1c/2c).

done

• Ref 7, Background/game genre: Crecente's Kotaku interview supports the Banoi setting, melee combat and role-playing elements, but calls the game a "zombie action slasher", not "survival horror". IGN, Ref 1 does use "survival horror"; VG247, Ref 3 disputes it. Ideally, find a source that explains the genre label or instead use wording that reflects the disagreement (1c).

removed completely

• Ref 8, Background/media silence: Eurogamer's 2009 interview says an agreement with an unnamed publisher kept Techland from releasing more information then. It does not say Deep Silver requested silence or that the restriction lasted until 2011. "In 2009, Techland said its publishing agreement restricted it from releasing further information" would fit; the later timing needs another source (1c, synthesis).

done

• Ref 9, Background/cancellation: Ryan Fleming at Digital Trends says the game seemed to die while it sought a publisher. That does not support "many journalists believed that the game had been quietly cancelled" or establish why they supposedly thought so. Attribute the impression to Fleming or cite other journalists (1c).

removed completely

• Ref 1, Infobox/runtime and Background/upload: Geddes's IGN preview mentions the trailer but gives neither its 187-second length nor the claim that it was released through IGN's YouTube channel. The IGN upload supports the channel and 16 February 2011 date; Ref 13 gives the 3:07 length. Cite those for the details (1c/2c).

done

• Ref 11, Background/Axis size: GamesIndustry.biz calls Axis Scotland's largest VFX company when it closed in 2024. That does not establish its rank in 2011, when it made the trailer. Remove the size claim or date it to 2024 (1c).

removed completely

• Ref 13, Development/Borkel and short film: GamesRadar+ says Borkel challenged a gore-first pitch and recalls the team choosing a family story. It does not say he formally approved the replacement concept. Borkel also compares the result to a melee short film; the article attributes that description to Axis. Keep the collaborative account and attribute the comparison to Borkel (1c).

done

• Ref 17, Development/atmosphere: In McNeilly's GamesRadar+ interview, Deep Silver's Anton Borkel says the trailer puts atmosphere before combat. The article assigns that choice to Axis. Attribute it to Borkel (1c).

done

• Ref 18, Development/in-game quests: Ars Technica quotes Deep Silver brand manager Vincent Kummer before release on quests players would encounter and his hope that they would feel like the islanders' last hope. The article treats that pitch as a verified fact about Techland's finished game. Attribute it to Kummer as a pre-release claim, or use a later independent review of the quests (1c).

done

• Ref 19, Development/reverse-time violence: Westbrook's Escapist summary does not say reverse chronology was chosen to soften the violence. Aitken, Ref 16 says Deep Silver suggested reverse slow motion for that reason and that he added real-time intercuts for contrast. Use Ref 16 here and follow its account (1c/2c).

done

• Ref 21, Development/music and sound: Borkel's Game Informer interview distinguishes sharp sound design during action from the dramatic music set against it. The article instead says the music grows tense during action and softens during peaceful moments. Keep the sound and score separate (1c).

done

• Ref 23, Reception/Borderlands: The Escapist quotes producer Sebastian Reichert comparing the game to Borderlands, not Borderlands 2. The 2011 report predates the sequel. Correct the prose and link. The comparison is Reichert's, not evidence of a company-wide plan to adjust expectations (1c).

Good call

• Refs 25-27, Reception/unconventional story: Turi calls the first trailer sad and unconventional, but does not say its story gives a new take on the zombie apocalypse. Hamilton says it promised a different kind of zombie game, then dwells on how the game failed to match that promise. Stuart discusses its emotional shock and moral questions. "The trailer's story was praised by critics for presenting an unconventional take on a zombie apocalypse" makes their views too uniform and too specific. State the assessments separately (1c).

Separated

• Refs 27, 29 and 30, Reception/child's death: Stuart reports a debate over whether the image belongs in a game advertisement; Gallaga calls the marketing exploitative; Parfitt felt uncomfortable using a child's death to sell a product. None says the makers "surpassed what is socially acceptable to depict", and they do not all call the death "offensive". Attribute their objections separately (1c).

Separated

• Ref 31, Reception/graphics and pacing: Parker reports that some viewers praised the craft and pacing, then discusses the gap between trailer and game. The praise is something she reports, not her own verdict. Keep that distinction (1c).

removed

• Ref 32, Reception/saturated genre: Schreier does say the trailer made a crowded zombie genre seem appealing again, while cautioning that the game might not be as emotional. I found no problem with the attributed genre sentence. His later "best trailer" judgment is his opinion, not a consensus (1c).

removed

• Ref 34, Reception/Cannes: Grant reports a Cannes Lions Gold award in the Internet Film category. Name the category; this was not the Cannes film festival (1c).

done

• Refs 35-37, Reception/best-ever claim: VideoGamer.com includes it among ten unranked "current favourites" of CGI trailers. Kotaku lists trailers from one console generation. IGN's 2014 list includes the Dead Island 2 trailer and only calls the original "fantastic". These do not add up to "one of the best video game trailers ever made". Narrow and attribute the judgments, and remove the IGN citation. Schreier, Ref 32 says it may be the best trailer he had seen; that works if credited to him (1c/2c).

removed

• Refs 42 and 22, Legacy/company popularity: Pitts's Polygon profile supports increased attention to Dead Island and Techland. GamesBeat describes buzz for the game and a change in Deep Silver's marketing. Neither shows that Deep Silver itself became more popular. Limit the claim to the game's profile and Techland's attention, or find evidence for both companies (1c).

done

• Ref 22, Reception/early views: GamesBeat quotes Deep Silver COO Geoff Mulligan recalling nearly one million YouTube views by Friday, against an expected 100,000. The article says more than a million after one week. "Nearly a million within days, according to Mulligan" would fit, unless another source supports the higher count (1c).

done

• Ref 22, Lead and Reception/game changes: Mulligan also says "we" changed gameplay, "a little bit" of the story and the marketing after the response. He does not identify Techland alone as the decision maker, and his account is not independent proof of the finished changes. Attribute it to him and keep "a little bit" (1c).

done

• Ref 13, Reception/views by 2018: GamesRadar+'s April 2018 feature says the trailer had over 16 million YouTube views, not the article's more than 18 million. Correct the figure or find a dated source for it (1c).

done

• Ref 13, Legacy/skeptical gamers: Borkel says gamers had become more wary of cinematic trailers, but doubts Dead Island drastically changed anything. The article says controversy over this trailer caused that change. Attribute his observation and include his caveat (1c).

removed

• Ref 38, Legacy/preview timing: Walker says the game's usual mood is less somber than the trailer's, though some quests are tragic. He also says the game had come out in the US the day before. Move this from "During the game's previews" to post-release reception, and keep the qualification about tragic quests (1c).

removed RPS from the source list.

• Refs 26 and 41, Legacy/reviewer consensus: Hamilton surveys several launch reviews that compare the game with the trailer. Cleaver's Vice piece is one 2016 retrospective arguing that trailer hype obscured what the game was. It cannot alone establish what "many reviewers" thought in 2011. Attribute Cleaver's view, and cite the contemporary reviews if keeping the plurality (1c).

separated them

• Ref 45, Legacy/chronological recut: Helgeson credits broadcaster G4 with the recut. The article says fans released it along with a live-action remake. Split the sentence: the separate Verge report supports the fan remake; G4 made the recut (1c).

done

• Ref 47, Legacy/Goat Simulator parody: Destructoid's archived headline compares the 2014 trailer with Dead Island, but the short article says little about what was copied. Philippa Warr in Wired and Eddie Makuch in GameSpot describe the reverse-time parody directly. Add one of those (1c/2c).

done

• Ref 48, Legacy/film rights: Polygon's 2014 report says Lionsgate's 2011 rights deal, inspired by the trailer, expired. Deep Silver then announced a separate film project with Occupant Entertainment. "The project was ultimately cancelled" says more than this source does and misses the later announcement. State that the rights deal expired and mention the 2014 project. A claim that either was eventually cancelled needs a later source (1c).

The one with Occupant is based broadly on the franchise, but the one from Lionsgate focus exclusively on the trailer.

• Ref 49, Legacy/musical tribute: GamesRadar+ says Deep Silver released a live performance of the theme ahead of the 31 May launch of Dead Island: Definitive Collection. The article calls it Definitive Edition and says the performance coincided with launch. Use the source's title and timing, or find support for the other version (1c).

done

Unfortunately, this is a fail, particularly on 1c and 2c. Let me know when this has been addressed. Fengrímur (talk) 18:16, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

@Fengrímur: - I have corrected most of the issues in this part. I tried to provide as much attribution as I can in the reception section, and remove as much as I can to avoid the "A say B did C" formula. OceanHok (talk) 15:32, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Second-pass source review (second pass)

Hey! Thanks for the revisions. It's definitely better, but I do not yet support it. (1c)

• The article still has no journal or book sources. I mentioned several papers in my first review, particularly Roh's analysis of the trailer's shot order and timing. I would like to see literature weighed per comprehensive coverage (1c).
• Besides, the sentence about the trailer appearing on IGN's YouTube channel still cites Geddes's IGN preview, which does not establish the channel. The already cited Wired article does. Please use it there.

Second-pass spot-checks

These still trouble me after the edits:

• FN 18, lead and Reception: The article still says the reaction to the trailer led Techland to change the game's content, and treats gameplay and story changes as fact. GamesBeat reports Deep Silver COO Geoff Mulligan's account of what "we" changed; he does not single out Techland. In a later Game Informer interview, producer Sebastian Reichert said no change to the game was necessary. I would remove the unqualified claim from the lead. In Reception, attribute Mulligan's account and mention Reichert's differing account (unless an independent source can settle this) (1c).

done

• FN 22, Reception: The broad claim about critics praising an unconventional story is gone, but Turi is still made to call that story "depressing" and "unconventional". He called the original trailer as a whole "sad and unconventional". "Depressing" belongs to the headline about the Riptide trailer. Please follow his wording properly (1c).

done

• FN 17, Development: The sound point is still off. Borkel distinguishes sharp sounds in the action from the dramatic music set against the violence. The article instead places softer music in peaceful moments. Please keep the sound design and score separate (1c).

I hope this makes it better

• FN 18, Reception: Mulligan recalled nearly a million YouTube views by the following Friday, not "a week after release". "Within days, according to Mulligan" would do. Please also narrow "one of the most anticipated titles of 2011" to his "fall gaming season" (1c).

done. I turn it to "late 2026" because fall/autumn is WP:SEASON

• Legacy: The opening comparison with the finished game's tone still rests on March 2011 previews. Meagan Marie, for example, said the tone was still in question. Either say previewers wondered whether the game would match the trailer, or support the finished-game comparison with a post-release assessment. The later attributed comments by Hamilton and Cleaver are much better (1c/2c).

I clarified that they made these statements during preview seasons, and moved it to another section as well.

• Lead/film: The body now correctly says the Lionsgate rights expired, but the lead still calls the film "ultimately cancelled".

done

Much closer, but I still cannot pass 1c. :-)

Fengrímur (talk) 17:38, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

@Fengrímur: - issues with spotchecks are corrected. OceanHok (talk) 15:50, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

A.Cython

I was a bit surprised to read a stand alone article about a trailer of a video game. It appears to have sufficient WP:RS to satisfy notability, I guess, but it was fun to read. I do have some comments listed below.

• Avoid pseudo headings at the Sources section per WP:PSEUDOHEADINGS
  • also avoid duplicate title between different levels of sections and subsections; you have ==References== and ;References

• Changed to level 2 headings. Z1720 (talk) 19:16, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• reaction led → reaction, which led

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 19:16, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• it was criticed spelling? I think you mean "criticised"

• Fixed. Z1720 (talk) 19:16, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• the couple begin fighting → the couple begins fighting

• Done, though I think both are acceptable because "the couple" is a singular group: my spell check didn't flag it as an error when the s was included or not included. Z1720 (talk) 19:16, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• was given a design → received a design

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 19:16, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• depicting the family's fear and helplessness were were → was (it goes to depicting)

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 19:16, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• gave a script a general ideas i think you mean: "gave a script that included general ideas" (please rewrite)

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 19:16, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• wikilink zombie outbreak ?

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 20:03, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• • also "Techland" in the first instance in the main body

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 20:03, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• redlinks for "Giles Lamb", "Axis Animation", "Savalas", "Dimensional Imaging", "Anton Borkel" ?

• I don't like to add redlinks unless I know there is assumed notability. Others can wikilink them when the article is created. Z1720 (talk) 20:03, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• stating influence from the Carousel advertisement by Philips I think this is needs to be explained, as the connection is not clear, i.e., how did Carousel ad helped Philips?

• Rephrased. Z1720 (talk) 20:03, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• the trailer[16][14] something is missing here, "."

• Added. Z1720 (talk) 20:03, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• The team hoped that the music would create a "juxtaposition between beauty and horror". appears to be repetitive with the nearby sentence Its melancholic and refined presentation was designed to juxtapose with the gore in the trailer perhaps it is better to join them together.

• I joined together and slightly rephrased. Z1720 (talk) 20:03, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• What "VFX" stands for? Also relevant wikilink?

• Changed VFX to visual effects: I don't think a wikilink is necessary. Z1720 (talk) 20:03, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• Trailer at Axis Animation this needs to be removed per WP:PROMO as it redirects to "Bitcoin Casinos" A.Cython(talk) 04:23, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• Removed. Z1720 (talk) 20:03, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• @A.Cython: Responses above. Thank you for your review. Z1720 (talk) 20:03, 27 August 2026 (UTC)
  • Thank you, it reads better now. While I have little experience on video games type articles as to what are the expected FA standards, I will support on prose and MoS and because I was also intrigued that the trailer received significant press coverage and make such an impression. A.Cython(talk) 21:48, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

Vacant0

Sup, I'll review this. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 11:11, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• Should we swap the Plot and Background sections? To me, it makes more sense for the reader to get to know something about the game first before reading the plot. What do you think?

• MOS:FILMGENRE and MOS:VGLAYOUT don't specify where a "background" section fits into an article. I'll leave it for now, and change it if other editors think it should be flipped. Z1720 (talk) 13:15, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• Infobox: Running time, unsourced.
• Ref added. Z1720 (talk) 13:15, 28 August 2026 (UTC)
• The trailer's plot follows a family who is attacked by a horde of zombies in a hotel: it begins with the infected daughter, who has turned into a zombie, being thrown to her death from a hotel window. – remove the colon and end the sentence there instead. I'd suggest doing the same in the third para of the lede and in the rest of the article.

• These are sometimes added in to reduce the number of short, choppy sentences. While not always appropriate, it can sometimes help with flow. Z1720 (talk) 13:15, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• Deep Silver is wikilinked twice in the body. Same goes for slow motion.

  Removed. Z1720 (talk) 13:15, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• Keza MacDonald writing for VG247 → Keza MacDonald, writing for VG247,

• Added. Z1720 (talk) 13:15, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

That's it from me. I did not spot any other issues with the prose. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 11:48, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• @Vacant0: Thanks for your review. Responses above. Z1720 (talk) 13:15, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

  Support, good luck! Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 13:16, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

Monathephantom

I'll review this and give some comments based on the current revision.

• The image in the Infobox needs a alt descrption.

• Done. Z1720 (talk) 17:32, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• Sources 22 and 13 should be archived

• For some reason archive.org won't let me archive source 22. Ref 13 archived.

Thats all i got for now Monathephantom (talk) 17:22, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• @Monathephantom: Thanks for the review. Responses above. Z1720 (talk) 17:32, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

Pamzeis

I'll try not to screw anything up

• "an announcement trailer for the video game Dead Island developed by Techland and published by Deep Silver." — a bit confusing whether the the trailer or video game (or both) is developed by Techland and published by Deep Silver
• "it begins with the infected daughter, who has turned into a zombie," — are both "infected" and "who has turned into a zombie" needed? My knowledge of zombies is pretty limited, but wouldn't an infection inherently precede one turning into a zombie?
• "The trailer was designed to be emotional, allowing players to care for the characters and to be distinct from trailers for the game's competitors." — is there a comma missing here or is the emotional design meant to distinguish it from other games?
• "The trailer was designed to be emotional, allowing players to care for the characters and to be distinct from trailers for the game's competitors. It does not show any gameplay, instead telling a short story about the game's world and the background behind its events. The development team's goal was to show the inevitability and the helplessness of a family in a zombie outbreak." — not sure about the flow here—it goes from the trailer's intentions (before it was produced, presumably) → the content produced → the intentions again. Perhaps the bits about the intentions could be grouped together?
• "It was one of the largest animation and visual effects studio based in Scotland." — I'm not sure I understand the relevance of this bit—and what does "largest" refer to, like it is the physical size of the studio or the amount of work the do or something?
  • The source does not indicate this other than calling it the "largest" animation/VFX studio.
• "this pitch for its lack of originality" — implies that it does lack originality
• "allowed them to create" — who does "them" refer to?
• "internal debate on whether the trailer should show guns, deciding that doing so would distract from the primary goal of the story and help differentiate the game from other first-person zombie shooters" — just checking—they decided that depicting guns would help differentiate the game?
  • Yes, it was unconventional for a zombie game to not have any gunplay at the time.

    So not depicting guns would help differentiate it, right? I don't think that's what the article says ATM, 'cuz what's written right now is "deciding that doing so (i.e. depicting guns) would ... help differentiate the game" but I think the opposite meaning is intended. Please correct me if I'm missing something. Pamzeis (talk) 15:25, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

    • @Pamzeis: - I made an effort to further clarify this. OceanHok (talk) 12:07, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

• There are a few moments where I feel the article's implying that the trailer was successful in Wikipedia's voice, e.g.:
  • "A child's death also showcased the feral nature of the zombies, triggering an urgent protective instinct within viewers." — reads a bit like it's trying to assert the trailer's success in Wikipedia's voice
  • "they alleviated this by introducing non-chronological storytelling"
• "The trailer's story was praised for presenting an unconventional take on a zombie apocalypse." — by whom?
• "set expectations too high for the game, which were not met," — I don't think the "which were not met" is necessary, since it's already implied by the expectations being considered too high

I think that's it from me. The article was a fun read :) Pamzeis (talk) 12:02, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

@Pamzeis: - Thank you for the review. I have attempted to fix the issues. OceanHok (talk) 13:12, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the revisions! I re-read the article a noticed a few more things:

• Glasgow is mentioned in the lead but not the body

• Removed. Z1720 (talk) 02:43, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

• Scotland is an overlink, I think

• Removed. Z1720 (talk) 02:43, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

• "To prepare for the trailer, a team led by Anton Borkel, a creative consultant at Deep Silver" — what was Borkel's role in creating the trailer? I feel like I don't a good idea of it from this introduction

• I tried to do some rephrasing, but unfortunately the sources do not give much information on what specific tasks he completed for the trailer. Z1720 (talk) 02:43, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

• "To ensure that the audience would be connected with its characters", "setting the game apart from competing titles", "triggering an urgent protective instinct within viewers", "Non-chronological storytelling was introduced so that the action and violence featured would not seem excessive.", "praised by critics for presenting an unconventional take" — sound a bit like they're stating the opinions/intentions in wiki voice.

• I tried to rephrase to make it more in wikivoice. "triggering an urgent..." is already qualified with a statement saying that it was the team's intention. The "praised by critics" statement is in the Reception section, so it is stating what critics said about the trailer and is verified by multiple sources. Z1720 (talk) 02:43, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Robert Rath from The Escapist liked the segment" — I assume this is referring the segment of the girl dying, but since the previous sentence only refers to "the dead girl" I think it's a bit unclear on what specifically the segment is

• Clarified in the article. Z1720 (talk) 02:43, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

I think that's it from me :) Pamzeis (talk) 02:16, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

• @Pamzeis: Responses above. Z1720 (talk) 02:43, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
  • Support. Pamzeis (talk) 02:52, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• OceanHok and Z1720 I've taken a look at the article but unfortunately don't have the time to do a review at present due to other on-Wiki work and that at school. I have made a few revisions though. MSincccc (talk) 13:36, 2 September 2026 (UTC)
• It was produced and made by Axis Animation, which had created trailers for Killzone 2 and Mass Effect 2.
  • Do we need both "produced" and "made" here?
    • @MSincccc: - Fixed

MSincccc (talk) 16:19, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

Drive-by comments from TechnoSquirrel69

Hey Z1720, how's it going? Is the proper name of this video "Dead Island Reveal Trailer"? None of the sources seem to use that particular phrasing in their titles. Since we do sentence case by default, the title should probably be "Dead Island reveal trailer" or even just "Dead Island trailer". Also, "Dead Island Reveal Trailer is an announcement trailer for the video game Dead Island " definitely provoked a reaction of "...no shit, Sherlock" from me. :P The relevant guidance appears to be MOS:AVOIDBOLD. —⁠TechnoSquirrel69 (talk) 23:45, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

• Pinging co-nominator OceanHok. The article's history indicates it has been moved a couple of times, with names like "Dead Island announcement trailer" and "Dead Island: Official Announcement Trailer". I don't know the origin of this article name; perhaps OceanHok knows. I am fine with changing it to something better. I rephrased the first sentence of the article per AVOIDBOLD. Z1720 (talk) 00:11, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

  (Oops, I'd missed the co-nom. Didn't mean to ignore you, OceanHok. :) ) —⁠TechnoSquirrel69 (talk) 02:13, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

  I guess "Dead Island trailer" is the simplest common name. OceanHok (talk) 14:38, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

A few comments from ZooBlazer

• Dead Island was officially announced in 2007 by Techland, Set in a zombie-infested tropical island - I assume it should be a period instead of a comma after Techland
• Maybe consider adding a subsection or two in development
• melodious tracks during peaceful moments.. - Remove the extra period
• Producer Sebastian Reichert attempted to adjust expectations by compared its gameplay to Borderlands --> "by comparing"
  • Also fix the link to Borderlands. The current link is to the dab page.

Sorry I couldn't do a more thorough review. -- ZooBlazer 18:12, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Done. I think the development section too short for subsections. OceanHok (talk) 15:53, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

China

Nominator(s): Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:06, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

This article is about a large country in East Asia. The article has a storied history: it became an FA in 2004, before it was demoted in 2007. It was a GA from 2008-2009, and then again from 2013-2020, each time suffering bloat and poor sources. I spent this summer giving this a full rewrite from the ground up, shaving 4,000 words off and in my opinion making it a lot more informative and representative of Chinese society, history, and culture as a whole. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:06, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• Pinging some people who have helped with the article recently: AirshipJungleman29 (GAN reviewer), Pietrus1, Chipmunkdavis (Peer reviewers), The Account 2 (significant contributor) Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:10, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

  I've never reviewed an FA candidate. What would you like most from me? Pietrus1 (talk) 16:24, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

  There's a first time for anyone! A FAC especially needs people to go through the prose to make sure it is intelligible, concise, and adheres to the MOS; if there are any bits that seem like they could be shortened or rewritten to be clearer, that'd be great to know. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:27, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

Support Amazing nomination. I think the article, in its current state, is worthy of becoming featured. UltraCobson (talk) 16:58, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Vacant0

Congrats on taking this article to this level. Over the next period, I'll go in depth and look whether the article meets the FA criteria. I have not previously reviewed any countries, nor have performed a review like this before, so it might take time. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 16:31, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• @Vacant0: Thank you very much! I think I got to everything. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 01:40, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  Hi, Laura. I appreciate your work so far. The source review I performed looks good to me, thank you for clarifying some things, you're clearly more knowlegeable on the sources than me. I'll go ahead and look at the prose soon, okay? Once I finish with that, I'll go ahead and vote. Cheers, Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 13:33, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

  Did not forget about this. I'll read the article and leave comments in a few days. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 12:48, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

  @Generalissima: I've completed the prose review. Let me know once you address everything and I'll vote. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 11:51, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

  @Vacant0: I think I got to all the prose stuff now! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:23, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

  Support on the basis of everything I've performed in this review (prose, partially sources, partially media). Good luck with your nomination. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 18:11, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

Prose

• Surprisingly, no issues with the lede. Is "CCP attempts to advance communism faltered through famine and political turmoil." backed up in the body though? The grammar seems okay otherwise.
  • I think so, but I reworded it to avoid the use of "communism" directly in the lede.-G
• "Cīna (चिन)" pronounciation would be welcomed.
  • Same goes for "ʐina"
    • These are both already phonetic transcriptions of the original words, so I'm unsure how much a pronunciation guide would help. -G
• "Erlitou has been controversially identified" why is this controversial?
  • It says right after this; but no written records exist to confirm this-G
• "western weapons and technologies" western → Western
  • Please go over the article and check if there are more instances of this.
    • Went through and did this.-G
• "During the Warlord Era, feuding regional warlords and governors took power across China, while Tibet and Mongolia declared independence." the wikilink to Mongolia is to the modern Mongolian state. Change it to the Mongolian Bogd Khanate of Mongolia.
  • Done.-G
• "northern warlords" → "Northern warlords" (I think this is correct, correct me if I'm wrong)
  • I think it's fine as is; it's a geographic descriptor, not a specific region.-G
• Note l seems to be unsourced.
  • I stripped down the note a little to make it fully covered by the sources.-G
• "CN¥3.6 trillion" how much is this in US dollars?
  • Added.-G
• "China's adoption of renewable energy has increased significantly in recent years" I think that we have a PAG that goes against words such as "recent".
  • same goes for "China has urbanized significantly in recent decades."
  • Fixed.-G
• " although others dispute this label" it would be good to know why some dispute the authoritarian label for China.
  • Clarified.-G
• "as well as the longest-ruling" I think that this is partially correct. By that I mean that they're probably the longest continuously ruling party. The longest noncontinuously ruling party ever is I think the UK Conservatives, with a total of ~160 years.
  • clarified.-G

Sources

25 August review: per this revision

• Ref2: The website seems to be owned by the National Bureau of Statistics of China; stats.gov.cn is its domain. Suggest changing the title of the website to National Bureau of Statistics of China, wikilinked.
  • Same goes for Ref 8.
    • Done.-G
• Ref4: The website seems to be owned by the United Nations Statistics Division; unstats.un.org is its domain. Suggest changing the title of the website to United Nations Statistics Division, wikilinked.
  • Same goes for Ref6.
  • Done.-G
• Ref5: Encyclopædia Britannica is listed as a situational source at WP:RSP, "Editors prefer reliable secondary sources over the Encyclopædia Britannica when available." is also listed in the note. Therefore I suggest finding replacements for these three usages, if possible.
  • Same goes for Ref12.
    • All usages are attributed in-text and used to represent differing accounts of China's area in reliable sources. Thus, this is appropriate; even though it is a tertiary source, it is one of the standard sources for things such as country areas.-G
• Ref9: The website should be International Monetary Fund, not its domain.
  • Fixed.-G
• Ref10: Wikilink World Bank with World Bank Group.
  • Done.-G
• Ref111: Wikilink BBC News.
  • Done.-G
• Ref126: This reference cites an advocacy organisation, suggest finding a replacement, if possible.
  • It is an advocacy group, but it is published by a team of climate scientists and I feel it presents reliable statistics. Reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective. It is cited, among other places, on the featured article for climate change, without attribution. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 01:40, 26 August 2026 (UTC)
• Ref181: Suggest finding a secondary replacement. If Ref182 backs this up, then remove this source.
  • Done.-G
• Ref183: Suggest finding a secondary replacement.
  • I don't think this is necessary in this case. It is highly unlikely an international organization would misrepresent which countries are within its own membership.-G
• Ref186: Suggest finding a replacement, I don't think that Institute for International and Strategic Affairs could constitute as a reliable high-quality source.
  • Think-tanks are generally cited as high-quality reliable sources in international affairs contexts, especially considering this is about how China is described, rather than what it is.-G
• Ref237: Change the website title from BBC to BBC News, with the new wikilink.
  • Done.-G
• Ref241: Suggest finding a raplacement, I don't think that Observatory of Economic Complexity could constitute as a reliable high-quality source.
  • No, this is reliable. It is a stats visualizer which displays data which is not otherwise easily accessible. Japan, for instance, cites it.-G
• Ref255: Suggest finding a replacement, I don't think that Brookings Institution could constitute as a reliable high-quality source.
  • Not done; Brookings is a major think-tank and one of the most cited at that. Commonly used in other FAs to support economic matters. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 01:40, 26 August 2026 (UTC)
• Ref274: Suggest finding a replacement, I don't think that World Shipping Council could constitute as a reliable high-quality source.
  • I see no reason why this would be unreliable on a list of most highly trafficked container ports. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 01:40, 26 August 2026 (UTC)
• Ref291: BBC News seems to be in the |publisher= parameter instead of |website=.
• Fixed.-G

That is it for news sources and other types of websites. I can confirm that, except where noted, the news sources are of reliable and high-quality. Websites published by non-governmental organisations could constitute as primary sources, and reliable on topics they cover. I'll now go over academic sources.

• Chen (2022): wikilink The China Quarterly
  • Same goes for Wuthnow (2022)
• Suggest finding a replacement for "China Biodiversity Outlook" (German report).
  • I see no reason why. It's in English and from a reliable source. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 01:40, 26 August 2026 (UTC)
• Fan, Ip (2023): wikilink European Journal of Cultural Studies
  • Done.-G
• Jin (2023): Is Viking Viking Press or is this some other Viking?
  • Yes, fixed.-G
• Liboriussen, Martin (2016): wikilink Games and Culture
• Liu (2004): is published by the China Intercontinental Communication Center, therefore I suggest finding a replacement, if possible.
  • I do not think sources published by state-owned publishers are unreliable when it comes to topics like food. It's political topics you wanna be careful. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 01:40, 26 August 2026 (UTC)
• Liu, Chen (2012): if you're already wikilinking publishers with their Wikipedia articles, go ahead and wikilink Cambridge University Press for the sake of consistency
  • Done.-G
• Wang, Wang (2024): wikilink Journal of Criminology
  • Done.-G
• Wang, Wang (2019): There is an extra } at the end of the citation
  • Fixed.-G
• Yang, Wang (2018): wikilink Reading and Writing
  • Done.-G
• Zhai (2023): wikilink Journal of East Asian Studies
  • Done.-G

I can confirm that all academic sources, except where noted, either come from prominent publishers whose sources are used across most FAs or from peer-reviewed notable journals. Therefore, I can assure that we should *not* be worried about the reliability of the most sources in this article. If replacements for situational sources cannot be found, I don't think that should derail this nomination, considering that they comprise a very little amount of non-controversial text.

Generalissima is a frequent and long-time contributor to FAC whose work is respected, therefore I won't perform a spotcheck, as this is only required for those who are new to this process. Though, of course, any volunteer can go ahead and do it if they are willing to do it. I should note that the article recently went through the GA process, therefore, technically speaking, the article *should have been* spotchecked. If it was not, then a spot check can be performed here, albeit not required.

If I have, of course, missed something while performing this source review, any editor can check something that I have potentially missed.

Media

I will only check whether the images are relevant to the text they are placed next to. I'll leave a proper image review to a different editor.

• I don't understand how The Shanghai Bund picture is relevant to this section, therefore I'll need an explanation.
  • A picture of the downtown of China's major financial center shows its rapid economic development and urbanization.-g
  • Same goes for Haiyang Nuclear Power Plant.
    • Shows off China's energy infrastructure. I agree that this one is probably unnecessary though, so I removed it.-G
• Is there a newer image for ethnolinguistic map of China?
  • There is a 1983 version, but it is lower resolution and essentially identical. I can't find a newer high-quality map. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 01:40, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Other images appear to be appropriately placed.

GumballNine1Nine

Congratulations on getting another country article to FAC. Hopefully this will be the year that two new countries reach FA status since 2018. Since I have a nomination of another country here as well, I might as well review this article too. I’ll do a source review and perhaps a prose review on some parts of the article.

Source review

I’ll review 50 random references. I’ll split the review into two equal parts, so that if I find significant issues in the first 25, I can give you a second chance to review your sources. Please bear with me while I go through them. Also, feel free to wait for any specific reviewers to finish their assessment first before addressing any of these points, if you want to manage the nomination so it doesn’t become too overwhelming.

• 3 - Also include page 123, where the definition of Paramount Leader is given, and page 141, where it explicitly states that Xi is China's current Paramount Leader. I suggest adding the years when Xi took each of those offices, since there are two different years on page 597 of the source.
  • Fair enough. I included p. 141, since p. 123 is about Deng and not really needed to confirm the claim.-G
• 10 - ok.
• 12 - I'd remove that source since there is no consensus regarding its reliability per WP:BRITANNICA.
  • It is explicitly been referenced in an ABOUTSELF matter; it is a standard ("canonical") source to give the areas of countries when comparisons are needed. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 23:31, 29 August 2026 (UTC)
• 19 - The article is about PRC–ROC relations, and based on what it states: "Nevertheless, while economic integration and cultural affinities may ease a form of political integration, a formal unification that would solve altogether the sovereignty issue and result in the dissolution of the Republic of China (ROC) seems unlikely even after the People's Republic of China (PRC) democratises." it seems outdated. There are more recent studies, such as this one, that are more up to date and discuss the differences between mainland China and the ROC. Having said that, I think it would be better if there were an article specifically on the meaning of 'Mainland China'.
  • I ended up removing this, because it didn't really seem DUE to the article as a whole. Better saved for a Names of China article or something-G
• 28 - "The Shang dynasty purportedly succeeded the Xia..." I couldn't find anything on that page that supports this claim, only a mention of a project containing the word "Xia".
  • Forgot to include p. 196 - should be fixed. -G
• 37 - Missing pages 53 and 55. Also exclude page 44, as it does not directly support the content it is cited for.
  • Fair enough, reworked this cite.-G
• 47 - Not the current edition of the book.

Yes, using the newest edition is always preferable, but WP polices (WP:V, WP:RS) do not require that the most recent edition be used as a source. In particular, for "stable" material about historical events, older editions are commonly used in FA articles, especially if they are the only edition available to the nominator. On the other hand, for material about current events, demographic statistics, or modern scientific topics, then newer sources are strongly preferred. Citation #47 is supporting "These coalesced into the Northern and Southern dynasties in the 400s." – although it is conceivable that that fact was revised by Ebrey between 2010 and 2022, it is unlikley. Noleander (talk) 21:32, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

@Noleander: During the source review of Portugal I was shocked by how even historical events that are considered important and have a defined date are still subject to new research and new findings. For instance, a historical event so important that it's a public holiday has undergone recent academic re-examinations and research. While yes, there are older sources, and I have used some of them myself like this one, I think that this does not apply to previous editions of the same source and goes against WP:HIGHQUALITY. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 22:49, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

@GumballNine1Nine:have no access to the most recent edition and as such will not be updating it. This is an analysis of WP:HIGHQUALITY that goes against the explicitly laid out elements of policy cited by Noleander. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 23:28, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

@GumballNine1Nine - I've posted a query in FAC Talk page to solicit additional input. Noleander (talk) 23:34, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

@Noleander: The reason why I said that was because WP:HIGHQUALITY says that "Are the main sources reasonably up-to-date, and therefore likely to represent the most recent scholarship? Older sources, particularly contemporaneous primary sources, are often appropriate, but the nominator may need to explain why they've been chosen." A more recent edition of the same source constitutes more recent scholarship. Even though it says that older sources are often appropriate, I think that is more plausible when the older source is a single work without a more recent version of it. Having said that, I understand the nominator’s reason. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 23:52, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

I think this falls into a case-by-case basis where we have to analyze if the source significantly differs from the most current edition. If we can establish that, we should update (since more recent editions are generally more reliable) but there is no verifiability concerns if this information is still the academic consensus on the topic. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 00:04, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

Regarding the source, here is what's stated in the 3rd edition of that book: " At Jiankang (modern Nanjing) leading officials set a Jin prince on the throne, creating a government in exile. This Eastern Jin dynasty (317-420) claimed to be the legitimate government ... After surviving a major rebellion in the coastal region led by Daoist practioners (the Rebellion of Sun En, 399–402), the Jin began to crumble. A leading general built his own power base and eventually usurped the throne, founding the first of four dynasties that ruled from Jiankang - the Song, Qi, Liang, and Chen, collectively called the Southern Dynasties (420–589)." (p. 94), on page 96 it states: "In the north, during the period known as the Sixteen Kingdoms (304–439), rival warlords of many different ethnic groups fought for control ... rural communities all over north China built forts and organized self-defence forces, with power devolving to the local level ...", on page 90 it states: "After several decades of rivalry among three contenders (the Three Kingdoms, 220–265), the Western Jin (265-316) briefly rejoined the regions. After the Jin fell to internal squabbling, non-Chinese peoples entered the fray, and China entered a prolonged period when the north was under the control of foreign rulers and the south ruled by Chinese courts." There's a figure on page 91 with a map of China showing the Eastern Jin in the south and the Sixteen Kingdoms in the north (the title of that figure is "Sixteen Kingdoms and Eastern Jin 440 CE") and on page 90 a table entry in which the Northern and Southern Dynasties period is given as lasting from 420 to 489 (a typo for 589). GumballNine1Nine (talk) 02:13, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

Then the 3rd edition seems to match what the 2nd edition says on this matter; it checks out in either source. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 02:26, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

What I meant by quoting all of this was to show what I thought appeared to be the opposite of that. Since that's not the case, that info doesn't appear to match "Sinicized formerly nomadic peoples who had settled in Northern China, such as the Xiongnu, rebelled and founded new dynasties. These coalesced into the Northern and Southern dynasties in the 400s". This coalescence does not appear to have happened in China’s south, but rather through a revolt against the Eastern Jin followed by a succession of dynasties. When "new dynasties" is linked to the article on the Sixteen Kingdoms and is then followed by "These coalesced into the Northern and Southern dynasties in the 400s", it implies that those Sixteen Kingdoms coalesced into both the Northern and Southern Dynasties in the 400s, also according to the source the Sixteen Kingdoms are included in the Northern and Southern dynasties period. I'd rephrase this sentence to make the difference between the Southern Dynasties and the Northern Dynasties clearer and replace "in the 400s" with "during the 5th century". Also, since it matches the 2nd edition, in case you want to replace the source with the 3rd edition the page range is 90–91, 94–99, which are specifically about the northern and southern regimes during the Northern and Southern Dynasties period. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 03:10, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

• • • • To prevent further back and forth, I just replaced this with a different source. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:09, 30 August 2026 (UTC)
• 65 - ok (p. 183)
  • See my response to 47. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 23:28, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

  I’ll see if my university grants me access to that 3rd edition. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:02, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

• 74 - Suggest including pages 71,73–77,79, as they discuss Qing territorial and administrative expansions. Also remove "territorial expansion westward", since the source states that Taiwan was conquered by the Qing between 1683-1684 (pp. 76–77). It also doesn't make much sense given the previous statement: "…and conquering a Ming rump state on Taiwan in 1683." I'd suggest removing that from the article and rephrasing the last sentence from "From the late 1600s to the end of the 1700s, the High Qing era saw economic growth and territorial expansion westward, including the conquest of Tibet and much of Central Asia." to "From the late 1600s to the end of the 1700s, the High Qing era saw economic and territorial expansions, such as the conquests of Tibet, part of Central Asia, and Taiwan."
• 83 - I'd suggest rephrasing "President Yuan Shikai rose to power in 1912 and crushed his main opposition, the Kuomintang, ruling China as a dictator", given that the source only states that Shikai ordered the assassination of a Nationalist organiser (Song Jiaoren) after the Kuomintang's victory in the 1913 parliamentary elections, and that he became a military dictator after successfully using military force against provinces that had declared independence. I'd also add a mention of the Comintern's role in the spread of communist ideology in "... with many embracing Western political ideas such as communism.". (pp. 286-290)
  • See my response to 47. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 23:28, 29 August 2026 (UTC)
• 92 - The source states that "Following Japan's defeat in 1945. ... Chiang used the war to push Soviet forces out of Xinjiang" (pp. 296-297) I'd suggest including Xinjiang in "After the surrender of Japan in 1945, China became a founding member of the United Nations and regained control over Manchuria and Taiwan.". I also couldn't find anything in the text that supports the claim: "The civil war between the CCP and the Kuomintang resumed the following year". The source only states that "The civil war between the CCP and the GMD followed a brief respite of uneasy concord in 1945 and 1946." (p. 297) which is not the same as saying that the civil war started in 1946.
• 101 - Include page 146, as it covers the end of the upheaval of the Maoist era, and page 142, as it states that the Cultural Revolution started in 1966, which is not mentioned in the current page range.
• 110 - I'd replace the current source with academic material on that subject.
• 119 - The source states China has 92,301 species and sub-species also I'd suggest adding this source as well as it specifically covers the topic of megadiverse countries. The source also states that the number of megadiverse countries has been updated to 20. (p. 3).
• 128 - The quality of this journal is, at best, questionable.
  • Hmm. The issues with Chemosphere that led to it being removed from WoS do postdate this: expressions of concern started to appear online in March 2024, while the article was published in 2022. Additionally, the article has 362 citations on Google Scholar, which I feel acts as an indicator of its reliability. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 00:00, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

  Those concerns may apply to articles published before March 2024, like this one. I'd suggest removing that source just in case. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:09, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

  Huh? That's an article from May 2024. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 00:32, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

  That was an expression of concern relating to an article published in May 2023. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 03:21, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

  • • • Fine, I replaced it with a different source. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:09, 30 August 2026 (UTC)
• 172 - I'd replace the current source with academic material on that subject. As for news sources, I'd use them only to verify that a certain event happened, and stick to those published by a news agency reporting on it.
  • This does check out in Li 2024, so I just
• 195 - I'd replace the current source with academic material on that subject.
• numbering is according to the most recent version as of the moment of this writing) GumballNine1Nine (talk) 20:03, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

Media (accessibility)

Just a quick aside from the source review: according to Portugal's previous nomination: "The guideline WP:ACCESSIBILITY says that WP articles should be available to blind or visually impaired readers. Within that, MOS:COLOR says "Color should not be used as the sole visual means of conveying information ... Always provide an alternative method—such as an accessible symbol and/or text ..." See also WP:COLORMAP. The Climate map used in the article is not compliant: it uses color-coding as the only way for readers to connect the legend to the regions in the image." Later, it's stated that "Contrast with image Regions and Intermunicipal Communities of Portugal.svg which already has the (correct) text overlays on the map, in addition to colors." The same could be done in this article for the administrative map of China, using different colours according to the type of first-level administrative divisions of the PRC. Also, File:CHN orthographic.svg doesn't have alt text. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 21:08, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

I replaced the climate map with a series of photos instead. The map of territorial disputes (thoroughly labeled, so I think it works with our color guidance) does already show the different types of administrative divisions. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 08:08, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for those edits. However, and this is more related to climate than accessibility, one point that was also raised during Portugal's previous nomination, and which also applies here, is that there's no mention of climate over the oceans. As you probably know, China, like any other country, holds (and also claims, though that's not relevant to my point) equal sovereignty over both its land and its internal waters. That's why the caption of Portugal's climate map is "The Köppen climate types of Portugals terrain", and why I included a very brief mention of the climates over Portugal's surrounding waters in the text. This might seem like a minor point, but it was relevant enough to be one of the issues that earned me an oppose vote. I'd also suggest replacing those images with a version of the climate map that includes the necessary accessibility edits, as I think it would be more informative than the current image selection. (The map shows where those climates are located within the PRC's land area) In addition, the current selection can give the impression (or at least allow the reader to forget) that there's no climate over the seas. This could be resolved by having a climate map whose caption states that it is a climate map of the PRC's terrain. I'll make more comments once Iv'e finished the source review, which will hopefully be today. (I've only noticed the lack of coverage of that subject, and I didn't check whether or not the article discusses China's internal waters and claims.) GumballNine1Nine (talk) 11:08, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

You said: "The map of territorial disputes (thoroughly labeled, so I think it works with our color guidance) does already show the different types of administrative divisions." Why not implement the same edits for the other map? Since they are different, I suggest applying those edits, as it's not guaranteed that every reader will see both images. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 12:30, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

I don't see why we need redundancy in our images here. The two maps serve different purposes, and I feel adding colors would complicate the locator map, whose main purpose is to allow for the reader to select and click on the articles for the different provinces, as well as seeing their names in Pinyin and English. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 04:04, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

I was planning to continue reviewing the other eight sources, but a nominator's response, avoiding further back and forth by replacing sources instead of addressing one of my concerns, together with other instances elsewhere of apparent reluctance to resolve them, has led me to cut this short. (For instance, Britannica is considered to be marginally reliable and WP:RSPF suggests that in the case of such sources "It is often a good idea to search for a better source." A suggestion that I've already given) This makes me uncomfortable maintaining my current neutral stance on the article when I've also spotted several source issues (I'm excluding edition number here); the article has 9,000 prose words, and there is some missing content, which I do not think are insignificant issues, but I had intended to give a non-neutral vote only after seeing every concern raised addressed. I will give an oppose vote for now, in the hope that there's a source review of all sources in the article. I'd also suggest a skimming of it. As I've said before, I'd be more than happy to return here to make a second review and change to a support if I don't spot any major source problem after you decide to ping me once you're done. I think the article is very well written and believe that these improvements can still be made during this nomination. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 09:58, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

@GumballNine1Nine: Frankly, it seems like you have a very idiosyncratic interpretation of FA criteria and sourcing guidelines, and I'm very unsure how to resolve your concerns. What is the issue with replacing a source that you have raised issue with? I must be missing something, since this review has required things that I have never had to deal with in all my years at FAC. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 13:04, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

@Generalissima: I’m sorry if my review so far has made you feel this way. This is my second review of a FAC nomination, the first one was also a source spot-check, which I believe was carried out with a similar level of detail. I tried to apply the same level of scrutiny that I received for my own nomination at the time. I gave a neutral assessment then because, even though I saw some problems, I did not have any concerns that those would not be resolved for a second reading, which I was unable to do before that nomination closed, as I was conducting the same task on Portugal's article as requested by a reviewer there. The only reason for this oppose vote at this time is that I want you to follow my suggestion of reviewing all of the article’s sources and resolving any source-to-text integrity issues and source reliability issues that exist. This is the exact same thing I asked for in my first FAC review, and it was also what was requested of me for Portugal in the previous nomination under very similar circumstances. I raised an issue about that source, which is why I went to the trouble of obtaining the current edition, using it to check source-to-text integrity, providing page numbers in case you wanted to update the citation to that edition, and giving very detailed suggestions so that they could be carried out or discussed. You stated that you wanted to prevent further back and forth. Again, I am happy to return here and give a support vote in a second pass. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 14:47, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

More heat than light. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 09:58, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

@GumballNine1Nine: I agree with Generalissima. WP:V and WP:RS do not require a source to be the most recent edition of a textbook, especially for things like historical facts. You try comparing the fluid nature of a specific Portuguese public holiday's history to a timeline of China's Northern and Southern dynasties in the 400s; but you are assuming that all historical facts are actively changing through every textbook update. Also, WP:HIGHQUALITY warns about older PRIMARY sources, not older secondary reliable sources. Per WP:BRITANNICA, a source is reliable if it is written by staff and experts. While there may be freelancers who edited, most of them have made very minor edits, the "Primary contributors" lists most of the editors as professors in the field at trusted institutions such as Princeton University. I'm also going to have to point out your poor verification process, where you "couldn't find anything" on the Shang succeeding the Xia. I think the reason for your harsh nomination is because of multiple difficult nominations of Portugal. There also isn't any "winning" side for her either, because you attack citation #47 since it's an older edition. Once you obtain the newer 3rd edition, you completely shift your argument criticizing the "sentence structure" instead of admitting the source is fine. The second questionable sources were swapped out to move the review forward you used this against her? Claiming that replacing a source was "avoiding back and forth", using it as a tantrum to cast an oppose vote. You also try forcing her to include a section of climate over the oceans because a reviewer made you do it for Portugal. China is HUGE. Adding Koppen climate classifications over the seas are just irrelevant here and shouldn't be included anyways. Also, you ADMIT that you oppose not because of the WP:FACR, but because you want the nominator to slave away 100% re-checking every source. This feels like revenge reviewing. Following up with the BRitannica thing, the source is used for something simple like land mass. Maybe if it was used to cite an entire section about the history then YES that would be a valid reason to nitpick but come on mate, it's an expert source used to cite one thing. Frankly, this review feels like it's driven by your personal grievance. I would recommend you reconsider your Oppose vote, or maybe bring up a valid reason for your opposal. Regards, splains (💬/📝) 14:33, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

@Splains: I’ve explained my reasons above: I voted oppose here because I have doubts that my suggestion (a source review of all sources) would not happen, unlike my other review), I split the review in two in the hope of seeing the article improved and any significant problems resolved. I don’t see many differences in the level of detail between my only other review and this one, so I don’t see how you reached those claims. Yes, I did make that change in that case, providing anything other than “Same as 47” constitutes an improvement to the review as it replaces that with a useful suggestion. I quoted a source that I took the trouble to check in the newest edition, and I even provided the page range in case the nominator ever wants to replace the 2nd edition with the 3rd (it is stated that the two do not have many differences; if they did, and at the time I thought it would mean there had been new insights or another major update, which would have required using the latest edition). I went to the trouble of doing that as a courtesy, since it falls on the nominator to provide information about the sources to the reviewer. I took the time to do something that wasn't my responsibility, even while I've my own nomination going on. I don’t see how doing this leads you to conclude that I have any grievances. If anything, it shows that I want this article at FA and that I will support it if, as a reviewer, I find enough reasons to do so. I don’t see any reason to change my review; I will reconsider it when I’m pinged after a decision is made. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 20:48, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

@GumballNine1Nine: Once again, you are violating the WP:FAC guidelines. You again admit that you are voting oppose as a precautionary measure because you "have doubts" that your demands iwll be met. You are using the !vote as a tool of leverage rather than evaluating text against the WP:FARC. Apparently, it's a "courtesy" to track down the third edition. My guy, the burden of proof is on YOU, THE REVIEWER to show that the text is wrong. This is what you did: You found the source (Wow! Normal reviewer shit!), Whoops! It says EXACTLY what the article says! But fuck that, looks like people aren't supporting Portugal. Might as well revenge  review! And then you still demand changes. I don't know why I'm so pissed because per WP:FACSUPPORTOPPOSE, "Each opposition must provide a specific rationale that can be addressed. If nothing can be done in principle to address the opposition, a coordinator may disregard it." your review will be disregarded. Also, you have craaaazy double standards. Like buddy, yes, you "don't see many differences in the level of detail between my only other review and this one" is really fucking funny, because you're comparing CHINA to PORTUGAL. Like what? Portugal is a tiny country, there are completely different structural and theme related needs between the two. I hope you complete your spot-check and provide genuine actionable policy errors. Maybe this way, the nominator can actually address your concerns. -- splains (💬/📝) 22:33, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

@Splains: I've stated that if I saw significant issues I would wait for them to be addressed so I could make a second pass afterwards. That already implies I do not believe the article is at FA level yet. Each point was explained, and I saw several instances of problems that were enough for me not to feel comfortable granting support or remain neutral. I'll maintain that position and after reading that reply I'm even more reassured of it, because it seems I'm approaching this review in a more dispassionate manner. (I'd consider comments such as But fuck that, looks like people aren't supporting Portugal as if trying to insult or mock my nomination a major red flag especially after you mentioned that coordinators will consider the comments here when deciding whether an opinion should be disregarded, You found the source (Wow! Normal reviewer shit!), Whoops! It says EXACTLY what the article says! is an extraordinary thing to say in a review where one of the points raised was a mismatch in quantities between the source and the text. I was also quite clear that when I say "check all the article's sources" I mean check each of them for source-to-text integrity issues and look for any sources that should be replaced (questionable sources, for example). I also think you should look at the proportion of initial OKs in my prior review and compare with this one and if needed, reread the points I raised, so the reason for the oppose becomes clear to you. I have nothing else to add for now. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 01:46, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

• Woah woah woah, this is getting a little intense. I'm frustrated too, but you gotta stay respectful here splains; I suggest toning down the language a little. You gotta assume good faith, even when you disagree. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 00:45, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

Splains

This is a great important article. I will re-read it hopefully tomorrow and let you know if I have any more comments.

• 221 BCE, China was unified - Random cutoff? -> "In 221 BCE, China was unified"
  • Fixed.-G
• Chinese art and culture has influenced... -> Change "has to "have"
  • Fixed.-G
• China is the birthplace of Confucianism and Daoism, which form the traditional three teachings... -> Buddhism?
  • Buddhism is from India initially.-G
• The Shang were overthrown by the Zhou c. 1046 BCE. -> I'm not sure if this is correct but maybe something like "by the Zhou in c.1046 BCE"? Your call (I am a new reviewer so I don't know really)
  • From what I have seen, "circa" can be used to introduce a date, like "in" can.-G
• The Zhou ruled over a vast and loose confederation of vassal states across central China gradually weakened by regional lords. --> I think this should be restructured, let me know what you think
  • Added two wordss here.-G
• The Sui collapsed in the 610s, and were succeeded by the Tang. -> ...and was succeeded by the Tang. (since Sui here refers to the dynasty)
  • Fixed.-G
• the Qing's defeat by the Empire of Japan... -> i think "Japan's defeat of the Qing" works better here.
  • Done.-G
• which resulted in the first of the ‘unequal treaties’ imposed on the dynasty, which opened treaty ports... - The two "Which"s in a row seems a bit unnatural. I think "...resulted in the first of the ‘unequal treaties’ imposed on the dynasty. These opened treaty ports..." works better. Lmk what you think.
  • Done.-G
• the Ming state declined and by the 1600s became unable... -> "The Ming state declined and, by the 1600s, became unable..."
  • Fixed.-G
• organized to Leninist principles -> organized according to Leninist principles
  • Fixed.-G
• with about 5.1 million committees at the grassroots level. -> Might be a terminology error here? I'm stupid, I sort of comprehend the statement. If it's fine to you then it's fine to me.
  • "lowest" works instead of grassroots here.-G
• The PRC has engaged in 23 border disputes since 1949, of which six are unsettled. -> I would replace the second half with "...six remain unsettled.", but that's just preference. Geography section is written nicely. But I will do a re-read later and I may have new comments regarding this section.
  • Fixed.-G
• The chairman of the CMC, currently Xi Jinping, is the commander-in-chief of the PLA chairman responsibility system. -> this sentence reads a little confusingly. Imo it would be better as something like "...is the commander-in-chief of the PLA under the chairman responsibility system." Though I might have got something wrong.
  • Fixed.-G
• although occur at relatively low rates. -> Missing subject!!! I think you see the fix here, just add a "they" after although.
  • Fixed.-G
• the reform and opening up during the 1980s and 1990s saw... --> "the reform and opening-up policies of the 1980s and 1990s saw..." I think this reads smoother. And I believe opening-up is supposed to be hyphenated. Speaking of which, you should hyphenate it throughout the article.That is if you choose to listen to me.I
  • Fixed; though the article on reform and opening up doesn't hyphenate it so I'll follow its lead there.-G
• has launched a far-reaching anti-corruption campaign, abolished presidential term limits, and expanded... --> I think the term limits thing should go after the Belt and Road initiative part, just to make a better timeline. Up to you.
  • Done.-G
• Geopolitical tensions have led to Europe and the United States to restrict... -> "have led Europe and the United States to restrict..,"
  • Fixed.-G
• The Chinese economy has expanded more than 20 times since 2000, achieving the second-largest economy by GDP... -> I feel like "achieving" and "economy" don't go together. I would go with something lik: "...and is now the world's second-largest economy by GDP..."
  • Fixed.-G
• The private sector is the largest portion of the Chinese economy -> "The private sector constitutes the largest portion..."
  • Fixed.-G

• The private sector is the largest portion of the Chinese economy, while about 30–40% is under state ownership. -> The biggest problem here is the last "is" right before "under state ownership". Could this be expanded a little bit?
  • Reworded this to be clearer and less repetitive.-G
• leading to pronounced inequalities between workers from urban and rural areas. -> "...between urban and rural workers."
  • Done.-G
• has greatly advanced in the fields of -> "has made great advances in"
  • Done.-G
• leading to the Chinese orchestra to develop... -> "leading the Chinese orchestra to develop..."
  • Fixed.-G
• Behind the United States and the Soviet Union, it was the third country... -> This is a bit awkward. I would go with something like "After the United States and Soviet Union, China was the third country...". It reads nicer
  • Done.-G
• the second-largest rail network at 165,000 km -> I would change largest to longest, and I'm also not sure if this should be "roughly 165,000 km" instead of just "at 165,000 km".
  • Fixed.-G
• According to state data, the Chinese highway network exceeds 6,000,000 kilometres ... by the end of 2021 -> exceeds changed to exceeded, also is there a thing on the MOS about consistency between using Km and Kilometre?
  • Fixed.-G
• As of 2025, Chinese film industry is... -> As of 2025, the Chinese film industry is...
  • Fixed.-G
• China is dominant among international competition in table tennis... -> "China is dominant in international table-tennis competition..."
  • Well, this precedes a list of sports where China is dominant in, so the "international competition" clause has to apply to all of them.-G
• China first attended the Olympic Games in 1932. -> I would change "attended" to "participated in"
  • Fixed.-G
• The Late Shang-era oracle bone inscriptions are the oldest known Chinese writing -> "...the oldest known form of Chinese writing"
  • Fixed.-G
• the canon was historically centered of the Five Classics -> "centered on the Five Classics."
  • Fixed.-G
• New Culture writers promoted the importance of fiction and vernacular Chinese experimented... -> "New Culture writers promoted the importance of fiction and vernacular Chinese, experimenting with new modernist forms..."
  
  • Fixed.-G

I'll do another read-through tomorrow. Ping me if you have resolved these issues -- splains (💬/📝) 21:56, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• @Splains: Thank you so much! I think I got to everything. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 02:22, 26 August 2026 (UTC)
  • More comments!
    • It is divided into 33 province-level divisions -> How come the article for Provinces of China says 34? I'm Chinese, and although Taiwan is de facto independent, shouldn't it be listed as 34 here? Or at least a footnote, something like "It is divided into 33 province-level divisions[a: Including the disputed Taiwan Province.]"
      • English sources at least consistently give the figure as 33. Since none of Taiwan is administered by the PRC, I think it's fair to say that the PRC is divided into 33 provinces; I did add an efn to clarify this in the lede though.-G
    • across an area of 9.6 million square kilometers (3,700,000 sq mi), making it the third-largest country by area. -> I would add the comma before across to a period, and change across an area of to "Its area is"
      • Rephrased this, but a little differently.-G
    • In 221 BCE, China was unified under the Qin and the succeeding Han dynasty -> A bit confusing. I would go with "In 221 BCE, China was unified under the Qin dynasty, followed by the Han dynasty,"
      • Fixed.-G
    • the invention of gunpowder, paper, printing, and the compass -> "the inventions of gunpowder, paper, printing, and the compass."
      • Invention is fine here, it's just referring to the act of inventing, not to the inventions (in the same manner that you could say "the advent of gunpowder, paper, printing, and the compass")-G
    • China is the world's largest manufacturer and has the second largest economy -> change to "second-largest" throughout the article for consistency
  • Good idea, fixed.-G
    • science and technology, manufacturing, economics and culture -> add comma after "economics"
      • Fixed.-G
    • Chinese characters are among the oldest writing systems on Earth -> "The Chinese writing system is among the oldest writing systems on Earth"
      • That'd be too repetitive.-G
    • Cīna was first used in early Hindu scripture from the 3rd century BCE to 4th century CE -> Cīna was first used in early Hindu scriptures dating from the 3rd century BCE to the 4th century CE
    • Done.-G
    • The names of ruling imperial dynasties were typically used to refer to the region and state. -> "The names of ruling imperial dynasties were typically used to refer to the country and its territories."
      • "Country" is a loaded term, and implies that a "Chinese" identity existed under a different name far back into history, which is a big historiographical controversy. I rephrased to "state and its territories".-G
    • The Zhou ruled over a vast and loose confederation of vassal states across central China. This was gradually weakened by regional lords. -> ..., which was gradually weakened by regional lords.
      • Done.-G
    • During the Eastern Zhou, a multitude of small aristocratic Spring and Autumn period polities evolved into seven territorial Warring States over the following centuries. -> "During the Eastern Zhou, numerous small aristocratic states emerged. Over the following centuries, these states evolved into the seven major territorial states of the Warring States period."
      • Rephrased slightly, but kept most original phrasing to preserve the mention of the time period and avoid repetition.-G
    • The Han gradually reinstated centralized control -> "The Han gradually reestablished centralized control"
      • I don't see why this is necessary.-G
    • These coalesced into the Northern and Southern dynasties in the 400s. -> "The northern and southern regimes eventually coalesced into what historians call the Northern and Southern dynasties."
      • Repetitive, and I feel not really necessary; we don't need to clarify the Northern and Southern Dynasties is the historiographical term for the dynasties in the northern and southern areas of the country.-G
    • After centuries of warfare, China was reunited under the Sui in 589, who constructed -> "After centuries of warfare, China was reunited under the Sui dynasty in 589, which constructed"
      • Done.-G
    • The consistent focus on defense allowed for a heavily centralized state and military -> "The Song's sustained focus on defense contributed to a highly centralized state and military"
      • Done.-G
    • In the 1340s, central China was devastated by disease, famine, and significant floods along the Yellow River. -> I would change significant floods to severe flooding
      • Done.-G
    • The Manchu to the north declared the Qing dynasty in 1636 and conquered the Ming -> I would write "Manchus" or "Manchu people"
      • Done.-G
    • These opened treaty ports, allowed Christian missionary activity, and loosened trade restrictions -> Change "These" to "These treaties"
      • I don't think this is necessary; these isn't ambiguous here.-G
    • New Culture intellectuals and students rebelled against traditional society. -> I would change "rebelled" to "criticized" bc of WP:NPOV
      • Good point; rephrased.-G
      • There's a lot of other stuff that I want to get through by the next week before I can give my support, but I'm tired as hell right now. splains (💬/📝) 00:52, 27 August 2026 (UTC)
        • Anyways, back to the comments.
          • I still believe reform and opening up should be changed to reform and opening-up, since it says "opening-up" in the lead of that article and the first journal I found on Google says "opening-up".
      • I don't have strong opinions on this so I'll defer to your judgement.-G
        • • The CCP was driven into the countryside and repressed, before regrouping in the northwest. -> "The CCP was driven into the countryside and repressed, but subsequently regrouped in the northwest."
      • Done.-G
        • • The PRC, a people's democratic dictatorship under CCP control, enacted many reforms: it restructured... -> "The PRC, which described itself as a people's democratic dictatorship under CCP control, enacted many reforms: it restructured..."
      • Done.-G
        • • ... and the death of upwards of a million people. -> ..and the deaths of more than a million people."
      • Not all sources agree that the death toll of the land reform campaign was over a million.-G
        • • Attempting to reassert control of the CCP after the Great Leap -> "Attempting to reassert control over the CCP after the Great Leap"
      • Done.-G
        • • friendlier relations with the West -> "improved relations with the West"
      • Done.-G
        • • Chinese civilization was traditionally centered in the lowlands around its two largest rivers -> "Chinese civilization was traditionally centered in the lowlands around China's two largest rivers..."
    • Done.-G
      • • • It features both the Turpan Depression... -> "China features both the Turpan Depression..."
    • Done.-G
      • • • Its climate is mainly dominated by dry seasons and wet monsoons -> "Its climate is dominated by dry seasons and wet monsoons"
      • Done.-G
        • • Its adjacency to both the Pacific Ring of Fire and the Alpide belt (tectonic belts) result in frequent earthquakes -> "Its adjacency to both the Pacific Ring of Fire and the Alpide belt (tectonic belts) results in frequent earthquakes..."
      • Done.-G
        • • the cause of the majority of China's natural disaster deaths -> "which account for the majority of deaths from natural disasters in China."
      • I don't see the reasoning for this change.-G
        • • Although China ranks as the highest CO₂ emitting country -> "Although China has the world's highest total CO₂ emissions..."
      • Done.-G
        • • The PRC has prioritized clamping down on pollution -> "The PRC has prioritized reducing pollution..."
      • Done.-G
        • • China's adaptation of renewable energy has increased significantly -> "China's adoption of renewable energy has increased significantly"
      • Done.-G
        • • The appointment of CCP cadres and the leadership of major state-owned enterprises and institutions is managed by -> "The appointment of CCP cadres and the leadership of major state-owned enterprises and institutions are managed by"
      • Done.-G
        • • The CCP maintains committees on a national and local scale, with about 5.1 million committees at the lowest level. What is the "lowest level"? Township? Village? Grassroots?
      • Grassroots, but I was told to change it to lowest in another review.-G
        • • The PRC interred over a million Uyghurs in a network of internment camps in the late 2010s, which have evolved into a system of prisons and forced labor. -> "The PRC interred over a million Uyghurs in a network of internment camps in the late 2010s; these facilities have since evolved into a system involving prisons and forced labor."
      • Done.-G
        • • The Chinese economy has expanded more than 20 times since 2000, becoming the second-largest economy by GDP (135 trillion yuan) and the largest when adjusted -> "The Chinese economy expanded more than 20 times since 2000. It is now the world's second-largest economy by GDP (135 trillion yuan) and the largest when adjusted
      • Done.-G
        • • Speaking of which, be consistent with "second-largest" and "second largest". Same goes for third largest, choose one, hyphen or no hyphen.
    • Fxied.-G
      • • • The private sector constitutes the largest portion of the Chinese economy, with about 30–40% under state ownership. -> This could be confusing to a reader since "30-40% under state ownership" doesn't really establish the proportion of the overall economy that is private.
        • Huh? Isn't it just the inverse of state ownership?-G
          • in the recent decades -> "in recent decades"
      • Fixed.-G
        • • real estate assets far exceed the combined total of stocks, bonds, deposits. -> "real estate assets far exceed the combined total of stocks, bonds, and deposits."
      • Fixed.-G
        • • In 2025, China recorded 7.92 million births, the lowest recorded birthrate since at least 1949. Birthrate is a proportion, so change the 7.92 million births to the stat listed in the source which is 5.6 births per 1000 people
      • Fixed.-G
        • • China has among the lowest total fertility rates -> "China has one of the lowest total fertility rates"
      • Fixed.-G
        • • After the United States and the Soviet Union, China was the third country to independently launch an orbital satellite -> "After the United States and Soviet Union, China became the third country to independently launch an artificial satellite into orbit."
      • Fixed.-G
        • • and the second-longest rail network at roughly 165,000 km -> along with the second-longest rail network at roughly 165,000 km
          • It can be circumvented through virtual private networks, but these face occasional crackdowns. -> "Users can sometimes circumvent these controls through virtual private networks, although VPNs themselves face periodic crackdowns."
      • Adopted a similar phrasing.-G
        • • The percent of the country's population -> "The percentage of the country's population"
      • Fixed.-G
        • • Pearl River Delta and Yangtze Delta -> "Pearl River Delta and Yangtze River Delta"
      • Fixed.-G
        • • The figures in the table below are from the 2020 census, and are only estimates -> Remove comma
      • Fixed.-G
        • • The largest of these are the Han Chinese -> "The largest of these is the Han Chinese"
      • Isn't are correct here? Han Chinese is plural.-G
        • • Regarding the usage of "Southern China" "Northern China" etc. Should "mainland China" be capitalized?
      • Hmm, good point.-G
        • • Local deities are commonly worshiped along widely-known gods -> "Local deities are commonly worshiped alongside widely-known gods"
      • Fixed.-G
        • • Following Western influences, it has sometimes been identified as a religion. -> "Following Western influences, Confucianism has sometimes been identified as a religion."
          • Following an optional two to three years of preschool -> "Following an optional two to three years of preschool"
      • Fixed.-G
        • • achieve a master's or doctoral degree. -> "earn a master's or doctoral degree."
      • Fixed.-G
        • • boosted by their adoption of Chinese characters and participation within the tributary system -> "facilitated by their adoption of Chinese characters and participation in the tributary system."
      • Fixed.-G
        • • the second-most of any country -> "the second-highest of any country"
      • Fixed.-G
        • • Qipao became a popular form of women's dress during the early 20th century, but are today rare -> "The qipao became a popular form of women's dress during the early 20th century, but qipaos are today rare outside formal occasions"
      • Fixed, partially; I don't think we need to repeat the word qipao.-G
        • • The Late Shang-era oracle bone inscriptions -> "Late Shang-era oracle bone inscriptions"
      • Fixed.-G
        • • The traditional literati regarded literature as didactic in purpose -> "Traditional literati regarded literature as primarily didactic..."
      • Fixed.-G
        • • The PRC limits the number of foreign films which can be shown domestically. -> "The PRC limits the number of foreign films that can be shown domestically."
      • Fixed.-G
        • • Cities generally have a newspaper published by the local government, and another by the local CCP branch. -> Remove comma
      • Fixed.-G
        • @Generalissima -- I might need to do another read through if necessary, but I hope to give my support once you have addressed my concerns. Ping me when you're done. splains (💬/📝) 02:08, 29 August 2026 (UTC)
• @Splains: Thank you very much! I think I got to everything. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 11:31, 29 August 2026 (UTC)
  • Support on prose. I would really appreciate it if you were willing to do a review for my FAC. splains (💬/📝) 13:06, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

Kisseran

An absolutely breathtaking nomination. I'll do a more detailed review soon but I'll start with two things I noticed while previously skimming through the article:

• The PRC classifies Taiwan as a de jure province — is this how the sources say it? I would suggest something like "Taiwan is a de jure province of the PRC" or "The PRC legally classifies Taiwan as a province" since I don't really see how a government can "classify" something without it being de jure.
• The primary branches of Chinese are Mandarin, Wu, Yue (Cantonese), Min, Gan, Hakka, and Xiang — the term "primary branch" has a specialized meaning in historical linguistics and these are not the primary branches of Chinese. As an aside, there are certainly more fitting sources to cite than the Encyclopedia of the World's Endangered Languages for this section, but I can only be so bothered about it considering the scope of the overall article.

Kisseran (talk) 10:52, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Got to both of these. Good point on the branches; for a lot of the very basic, high-level information, sourcing was a matter of finding the most easily accessible academic source which said it. If there is like, a standard overview of Sinitic language family, that'd be good to cite. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 11:32, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Starting with the lead:

• Its achievements include the Silk Road and the invention of gunpowder, paper, printing, and the compass — I'm a bit iffy on attributing these as "achievements" of "China", especially the Silk Road. Perhaps something like "Gunpowder, paper, the printing press, and the compass were invented in China, and the Silk Road began in China." or something along those lines
  • Fixed.-G
• the 1911 Revolution overthrew the empire and established the Republic of China (ROC) — perhaps "resulted in the end of the empire and establishment of the Republic of China (ROC)"
  • Fixed.-G
• In 1949, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) forced the ROC's retreat to Taiwan and proclaimed the PRC, although both sides still claim political legitimacy. — (1) I would rephrase the first part as "In 1949, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) proclaimed the PRC, and the ROC government retreated to Taiwan" (2) "retreat to Taiwan" makes more sense as a single link, and even if you were to keept it split you should probably link to Taiwan (island) (3) linking "both sides" feels EGGy and unnecessary here
  • Fixed.-G
• unitary state — link the entire phrase
  • Fixed.-G
• In this paragraph I don't see much reason to use "PRC" instead of China
  • Fixed.-G
• Chinese characters are among the oldest writing systems on Earth, with → China has — I think in the lead at least the readers can safely assume that something millennia old would be among the oldest on Earth.
  • Fixed.-G
• The Han, mostly speakers of Sinitic languages — not sure what exceptions you have in mind when you write "most"
  • I dunno either, fixed.-G

Kisseran (talk) 12:19, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

Continuing:

• China is sometimes referred to as mainland China or "the Mainland" when distinguishing it from the Republic of China on Taiwan or the PRC's Special Administrative Regions. — not sure why this is relevant in the etymology section
  • Fair, fixed..-G
• Centralized authority finally collapsed
  • Fixed.-G
• over the following centuries — redundant with "during the Eastern Zhou", or at least should be organized together
  • Fixed.-G
• Literary and philosophical developments of this period include the emergence of various schools of thought, such as Confucianism, Daoism, Mohism, and Legalism, alongside Chinese classics like the Analects and the Tao Te Ching. — I don't have a good suggestion in mind but this sentence seems to present the Analects and Tao Te Ching as unrelated developments to the schools of thought.
  • Rephrased.-G
• frequently in conflict with the dynasty, — readers may readily infer this since the sentence is talking about those military expeditions
  • Fixed.-G
• After centuries of warfare, — redundant after just outlining those centuries of warfare
  • Fixed.-G
• fragmented before collapsing completely in 907 — EGGy link. I would suggest at least a sentence or so covering the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period.
  • Fixed.-G
• allowed for a heavily centralized state and military → resulted in...
  • Fixed.-G
• The proliferation of printing technology allowed books to become widely available → Books became widely available with the proliferation of printing technology
  • Fixed.-G

Kisseran (talk) 17:49, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

Continuing:

• The empire split into separate khanates. In 1271, the Mongol leader Kublai Khan established the Yuan dynasty — These two sentences should be connected in some way because currently it's presented almost as two different events
  • Fixed.-G
• declaring himself the Hongwu Emperor of the Ming dynasty in 1368 → establishing the Ming dynasty in 1368 and declaring himself as the Hongwu Emperor
  • Fixed.-G

• The Ming built a new capital at Beijing, with the Forbidden City as its imperial palace — I don't have a suggestion in mind but this phrasing doesn't feel ideal given that Beijing was the capital of the Yuan dynasty and that the Ming dynasty started off with its capital in Nanjing.
  • Fixed.-G
• conquest of Tibet — feels like it should be a single link
  • Fixed.-G
• limited impact for much of the empire → a limited impact
  • Fixed.-G
• the loss of Taiwan — Taiwan here should link to either Taiwan (island) or Taiwan Prefecture
  • Fixed.-G
• was ended after an internal coup
  • Fixed.-G
• President Yuan Shikai — a couple more words could be spared here to introduce him less abruptly
  • Fixed.-G
• , led by Chiang Kai-shek, launched the Northern Expedition to reunify China → reunified China under Chian Kai-shek's leadership
  • Fixed.-G
• before launching → and launched
  • Fixed.-G
• The following year, the PRC began to occupy and annex Tibet. — don't have a good suggestion in mind here but "began to annex" as a collocation doesn't sit right with me since annexation is instantaneous
  • Tried to reword.-G
• women's equality → women's rights or gender equality
  • Fixed.-G
• and crackdowns on political dissent in events such as the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre — not sure what the exact wording of the sources is here but my impression was that the Reform and Opening Up policies led to the dissent, but the crackdowns thereof were incidental from it

Kisseran (talk) 06:18, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• • Reword.-G

Continuing:

• its two largest rivers: the Yangtze and the Yellow River — by what measure of "large"? the longest rivers, yes, but the Yellow River is not impressive in some other plausible metrics of magnitude
• alongside the mountainous and subtropical south — the forests and steppes in the north are not "alongside" the mountainous and subtropical south, although I can't think of a good suggestion here
• and the largest governed by the PRC is Hainan
• 8,848 metres or 29,029 feet — is "above sea level" worth specifying here?
• is mainly dominated
• with two or three crops able to be harvested per year — presumably you mean something like "two or three harvests per year" rather than "two or three plant varieties that can be harvested yearly"
• results in frequent earthquakes
• can cause hundreds of thousands of deaths
• Severe rainstorms
• Damaging typhoons
• which to the south transitions into deciduous forest → which transitions into deciduous forest to the south
• The PRC has prioritized clamping down on pollution → China has...
• China's adaptation of renewable energy has increased significantly in recent years — I presume you mean "adoption" but I'm not entirely sure
• most of the Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh — this phrasing seems to implicitly take India's side in the dispute
• I'm surprised that neither the prose nor the map in the political geography section mention the Nine-dash line.

Kisseran (talk) 13:46, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

Kisseran I forgot to ping, but I think I resolved all these. I'd also be interested, if you have time, on your thoughts in regard to sourcing, due to the quibbles above. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 12:59, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

Thinking about it a little bit more, I think I have to insist that the map in the political geography section at least depict the South China Sea. As much as it is immaterial for all of the other maps, I think it's rather silly to try to depict a map of China's territorial claims and disputes with a map that isn't big enough to legally qualify as a map of China.

I haven't looked at the sourcing myself, but from the spot checks conducted above, I'm not seeing any pressing issues with source-text integrity. I think I concur with you that the original source cited for the Northern and Southern dynasties does verify the original phrasing used in the article, and I am also quite puzzled by an oppose based on the replacement of a source in doubt. The new wording does look more precise to me, although the piped links are rather awkward now. The uses of Britannica seem appropriate to me, although I doubt people would be rushing to add it if it hadn't been there for all these years. The only other sensible reference there would be a primary Chinese government source, although that's bound to be more controversial than Britannica. The other questions regarding source reliability all seem resolved to me too. To be honest, I'm probably not well suited to do a rigorous source-text integrity review since to a Chinese person, a significant chunk of statements in the article are at least as commonly known as the prototypical SKYBLUE example of the capital of France.

Prose reviews to continue... Kisseran (talk) 14:30, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

There's strangely no map on Commons that includes all of China's territorial disputes including the South China Sea Islands? So I added a Multiple Images template to just have another map which shows the territorial disputes. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 14:47, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, I still think that it would be ideal to depict everything on a single coherent map, but I can live with this. Kisseran (talk) 16:42, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

Continuing:

• All of the usage of "The PRC" can be replaced with "China" in the politics section.
• its NPC Standing Committee — delete "NPC" or rephrase as "the NPC Standing Committee"
• Its elections are indirect — are you referring to the NPC or the NPC Standing Committee? I suppose it applies to both but you could be clearer
• elects positions such as
• includes 26 ministers, including the heads of ministries and commissions — two uses of "includes" near each other is clunky
• Policy instruments and processes
• adapted and applied → adopted...
• The general secretary holds ultimate power and authority over party and state and serves as the paramount leader of China — I'm not sure why this is the part where the legal situation isn't introduced first. The paramount leader holds ultimate power over party of state from holding a combination of three positions. If nothing else, it should at least be mentioned here that Xi is the president and chairman of the Central Military Commission
• As the CCP and the government itself are closely intertwined → As the CCP is closely intertwined with the government
• The appointments of CCP cadres
• The CCP maintains national and local committees, with about 5.1 million committees at the lowest level. — it's curious to mention the number "committees at the lowest level" but not the number of members, which would presumably be a more intelligible point of reference for most people
• The People's Republic of China claims the islands of Taiwan and Penghu, which it does not control, as its disputed 23rd province
• Under these, townships are the basic form of local government. Direct elections occur only at the township and county levels. — nothing on the Village?
• its neighbors in Asia
• alongside the world's third largest stockpile of nuclear weapons
• in the United Nations Human Rights Council
• has remained strongly critical of international scrutiny → remains...
• seeing it as an interference in its internal affairs
• police crackdowns, and restrictions on Islamic religious practice
• The US has accused China of committing genocide in Xinjiang — not sure if this is due weight here
• it has cracked down on the pro-democracy movement in the SAR and removed much of its political autonomy — "its" is slightly ambiguous here and could be rephrased
• The PRC has cracked down on political expression in Tibet and strengthened surveillance — needs a "Since [date]" to make sense here to me
• prohibits same-sex marriage — is "prohibits" the wording used in the sources? I would think "does not recognize same-sex marriage" makes more sense since it's not exactly a crime but simply doesn't happen
• LGBTQ-related media

Kisseran (talk) 16:42, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

Continuing:

• Again all uses of "the PRC" could be substituted with "China"
• The PRC describes its economic system as a "socialist market economy," — reads like scare quotes
• The PRC has brought more people out of extreme poverty than any other country in history, roughly 800 million → China has brought roughly 800 million people out of extreme poverty, more than any other country in history
• and local governments adapting national economic plans to suit local interests
• About a third of China's workforce consists of domestic migrant workers
• ('household individual') — not particularly helpful I would say, but it should be wrapped in {{lit}} if kept
• As the world's largest economy for much of its history, China has produced many inventions and scientific discoveries. It is credited with the invention of paper, printing, the compass, and gunpowder. — I'll repeat what I said above about crediting an entire country for an invention
• and the Tiangong space station has hosted crewed operations in Low Earth orbit since 2021
• Out of the 50 busiest container ports, 18 are located in China → Eighteen of the fifty busiest container ports are in China
• The Cyberspace Administration of China is the national internet regulator and censor

Kisseran (talk) 17:22, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

Continuing:

• approximately 1,411,778,724 — approximately something this specific?
• while the United Nations calculates an urbanization rate of 83.7% — in 2025 too?
• Shanghai is its most populous urban area — discounting the Pearl River Delta?
• often described as dialects in Chinese sources — they are described as 方言 in Chinese sources. The English translation of the term is frequent point of contention, so I would err on the side of caution and mention the Chinese term here
• Several endangered Tungusic languages — pretty sure all living Tungusic languages are endangered
• Following Western influences, it has sometimes been identified as a religion — presumably you want to say that the identification has followed Western influences, rather than Confucianism has followed Western influences
• Even more usage of The PRC for China
• Islam among the Uyghur and Tibetan Buddhism — awkward conjunction, but I don't have a good suggestion
• and earn a master's or doctoral degree — redundant
• second most of any country (behind Italy).
• CCP pushed for women's equality — again women's rights or gender equality
• Elite culture of the imperial period saw skill in art as a marker of refinement and high social status → During the imperial period, skill in art was a marker of refinement and high social status
• seeking to orient them around the flow of qi — who is seeking?
• largely supplanting traditional architecture → which have largely supplanted traditional architecture
• Chinese dance has evolved for millennia, and by the Han period was a frequent subject of art and poetry → By the Han period, Chinese dance was a frequent subject of art and poetry
• pork, chicken, fish, and duck are the most common meats
• prized by later dynasties → prized in later dynasties
• Before this, fiction was generally written in vernacular Chinese, with literary works generally in Classical Chinese — is fiction not a kind of literary work?
• New Culture writers promoted the importance of fiction and vernacular Chinese, experimenting with new modernist forms — I think you can afford to name drop one or two
• it has over 90,000 cinema screens as of 2025, more than any other country
• with content critical of the government censored
• the CCP's People's Daily and the state-run Global Times, China Daily, and Reference News — the People's Daily doesn't seem to be less "state-run" than the other newspapers mentioned here. The salient difference is that the People's Daily is the CCP's official newspaper

And that's a full read through and about all I have to comment. Kisseran (talk) 04:01, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

@Kisseran: Thank you so much! I think I got to everything. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 15:23, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

I'm still not convinced that the statement The US has accused China of committing genocide in Xinjiang is due weight in the human rights section. Even if it belong in the article, it seems more fitting in the foreign relations section with the other sentence on US-China relations. I'm not too familiar with the academic literature here though, so feel free to explain if I'm mistaken here. Kisseran (talk) 15:41, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

Oh, forgot to take that out; done now. I was going to say that it's likely that gets reverted though; it's been on the page for a long while and this is of course a very hot-button issue. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 15:57, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

Also my comment on footnote p. Parallel to my comment at the start, being disputed is not part of the claim. Kisseran (talk) 16:24, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

Oops, forgot to fix that. Done now. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:33, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

Now it seems like everything has been addressed. I don't have any more comments, so I'll support on prose here, noting that the otherwise impeccably professional prose and media are weighed down ever so slightly by the maps in the political geography section. Kisseran (talk) 16:50, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

Drive-by comments

I'm not an expert by any means, but I can take a look at reference formatting to make sure it's all consistent. I might take a look at prose later too. NP (talk) 23:51, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• I see some inconsistencies with World Bank being marked as a publisher and a website. They should all be marked as a publisher.
• Encyclopædia Britannica should be linked on all instances in references.

Will continue later. NP (talk) 01:21, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

I resolved these two issues, thank you! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 08:10, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

Nice! I left a few more things below; I'll try to take a look at prose in a little while. NP (talk) 23:35, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• There is some inconsistency with Encyclopædia Britannica being italicized on some instances in notes and not in others. They should all be italicized.
  • Fixed.-G
• Relatedly, Encyclopædia Britannica should be linked to every time.
  • Fixed.-G
• Are all online references archived where possible?
  • Ran the Internet Archive Bot on the page.-G

Support from Aza24

Will get to this soon. – Aza24 (talk) 06:23, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

(Just some preliminary thoughts, before a more detailed review):

• Aren't notes I & M the same? You can do {{efn|name=}} (probably you already know that and it's just an oversight)
  • Oops, yeah, I missed that. Fixed.-G
• A lot of the infobox is unsourced.
  • The national anthem
  • "Largest city by municipal population: Chongqing"
  • Official scripts
  • Li, Zhao and Wang have pictures but no sources. Perhaps they warrant an in-text mention too? Seems strange to include a picture whose content is not included in the article
  • "1 January 1912"
  • "1 October 1949"
  • Calling codes; internet TDLs etc.
  • I would go through and check everything
• This may perhaps the inspire the old "do we really need a citation for this" conversation, and although I would argue yes, I think more importantly: since the infobox is supposed to be a summary of the text, much of these details should be in the text. For instance, it would make sense to me that the .cn is included in the internet section
  • • None of these things are sourced or mentioned in-text in other country FAs; see Japan, India, Australia, Canada. I don't intend to break convention on that.-G
• including the Hui, Mongols, Tibetans, Uyghurs, and Zhuang. — why these five? I would play it safe and stick to the five most populous. Or, frankly, you could just add the last three from the infbox (and sub out Mongols).
  • Those are the five with autonomous regions; I feel that is about as "official" as a five most important minority groups as we could hope for.-G
• Surely there's a better ref for APEC than the website itself?
  • I really don't why a potentially less academic source is needed for this? I looked at like, the BBC, but coverage just shows Chinese delegations at APEC conferences or such. I feel this is exactly the use case for primary sources.-G
• I am hesitent on sourcing the Council on Foreign Relations and Brookings Institution as sources
  • I feel these are both fairly reliable as long as they are not used to support subjective claims.G
• Although 206 BCE is the generally accepted date for the founding of the dynasty, the founding emperor Liu Bang did not declare himself emperor until 202 BCE. ? I can check Wilkinson tommorow but are we sure he says this? This note doesn't make sense without mentioning the Chu–Han Contention, regardless.
  • Yes, he does say this. I threw in a mention of the Chu-Han in the footnote.-G
• Why have the page range in the short and long citation for "The China Development Mode"?
  • Fixed.-G
• Not sure Bibliography of Chinese history belongs in see also, if it was Bibliography of China, sure, but the target page is only on the history, which is only one section in the article
  • Fair point; removed.-G
• Typically I do not interfere in citation styles (in terms of choices that are basically personal preferences), but given the rightfully massive bibliography, I do think it would be easier for readers to navigate if Books, Articles and Web sources were seperated. Completely up to you though.
  • I'll do this in a little bit, it's probably for the best! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 08:24, 29 August 2026 (UTC)
• Will go section by section sometime later. Thank you for your hardwork on this article, it's definintely moving in the right direction. – Aza24 (talk) 06:50, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

  @Aza24: Any update on this? Don't mean to rush. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 08:01, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

  Hey there, your responses/changes look great. Are you still planning to create some kind of media-type seperation in the source section? No worries either way. I understand your point about the infobox, but it seems utterly confusing to have Chongqing described as the "Largest city by municipal population" — but not have that anywhere in the article body, while also having "Shanghai is its most populous city by urban area" in the article body. I am also a bit hesitent to use two specific dates (1 January 1912 and 1 October 1949), without a citation. The other infobox citation exclusions seem fair. Look through again, here are some final observations:

  • Fair point; added cites and removed Chongqing.-G
• If we're going mention paper, printing, gunpowder and the compass as a group, it seems pertinent to link to the Four Great Inventions, somewhere.
  • Done.-G
• Tai chi seems like a major ommission
  • added.-G
• The coal & clean energy sentence has a missing four percent; perhaps worth clarifying?
  • Done.-G
• "China became the third country to independently launch an orbital satellite" — this is wrong, China is the fifth; Dong Fang Hong 1 was after France (Astérix (satellite)) and Japan (Ohsumi (satellite)). Is Harvey 2019 really saying third? Makes me concerned for the source's reliability!
  • Turns out I completely misread that - China was the third to recover satellites in orbit. That's not that important, so I just removed that part.-G
• Landscape painting, the most important genre in Chinese paintings, needs to be mentioned. The obvious link is to Ink wash painting (of which is just one part), but links to Shan shui, Southern School and Northern landscape style might be warranted; we just need something to give readers context on landscape painting
  • I feel going too in-depth to the schools is a bit too much (esp. cause the source im using here notes that the southern vs northern traditions are an oversimplification) but I added a bit about landscapes.-G
• In general, I believe the literature section is the weakest
  • "Classical Chinese was the standard literary register until the early 20th century, when it was overtaken by written vernacular Chinese.[421] Before this, fiction was generally written in vernacular Chinese, with formal works generally in Classical Chinese.[422]" — ?? Isn't this saying the same thing twice?
  • Chinese historiography also deserves mention, certainly having more direct prominence than most regions' historiography traditions
  • Chinese online literature is basically the main way most people in China get access to literature now adays, afaik
    • Added and reworked some of this section. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 12:08, 8 September 2026 (UTC)
• Keep up the good work! – Aza24 (talk) 04:07, 8 September 2026 (UTC)
  • @Aza24: I think I got to everything! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 12:08, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

Happy to support this nomination, with particular commendation and approval of its quality of sourcing, comprehensiveness and balance. – Aza24 (talk) 18:13, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

Drive-by comments

Just a couple of small comments.

• ... it is home to 55 recognized minorities, including the Hui, Mongols, Tibetans, Uyghurs, and Zhuang. The Hui and Zhuang are not mentioned in the body.
  • Resolved.-G
• Maybe the contribution of the Han dynasty to Chinese identity, leading to the naming of the ethnic group, language and characters after them, could be mentioned in a brief sentence?
  • Done.-G
• Most Han are speakers of Mandarin Chinese, of which Standard Chinese is a standardized form and the official language of China. Sounds slightly clunky; could be split into two sentences like Standard Chinese, a standardized form of the Beijing dialect of Mandarin, is the official language of China. Mentioning that it is specifically based on the Beijing dialect could be relevant.
  • Broke up this sentence and added a bit about it's Beijing origins.-G
• @Vortex3427: resolved all these; thank you! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 15:12, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

Drive-by comment from theleekycauldron

I agree that it's probably not due to say only that the US has accused China of genocide against the Uyghur population. The US's opinion is not that important. However, many many SIRS have described China's actions as genocide. The article on this subject is at Persecution of Uyghurs in China. I would make these changes:

• In Xinjiang, China has restricted the civil rights of persecuted the Uyghurs population, who face through widespread discrimination...
• Several UN OHCHR experts have equated it to "enslavement as a crime against humanity". Scholars, lawyers, activists, and commentators had previously referred to the persecution as a cultural genocide, rather than a full-blown genocide;(Finnegan 2020) since 2020, however, an increasing number from those groups do characterize China's actions as genocide.(Finley 2021 Steger 2020)

theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 14:56, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Added a variation of this (condensing a bit for word count). Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 15:12, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

@Generalissima: Thanks! Haven't looked closely enough to support, but nihil obstat. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 15:14, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Note

@FAC coordinators: May I nominate another article? Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 12:39, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

Please do. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:38, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Any updates, folks? UltraCobson (talk) 17:56, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

As I've stated before, I'm still willing to make another review when the nominator decides to ping me. I'd be more than happy to change my opinion, but I've yet to receive a request for another review, even though I've explicitly stated to the nominator to do so when it feels the article has already addressed all my concerns. I'm still not comfortable changing my position based on the concerns and the rationale I've raised in my review. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:18, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

I do not think that it is your review that is halting the nomination here; high level articles are often just left open for longer to make sure that they get the chance to be seen. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 03:51, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Wasn't trying to halt it either, not sure where you got that conclusion. The reply is pretty straightforward. If I wanted a race or see your nomination archived, I wouldn't be bothering to edit anything other than working on my own nomination, much less reaffirming my willingness to review yours again, even though you state that you "do not think it is your review that is halting the nomination here ..." Maybe you're right, but as I was already reminded here, it’s up to FAC coordinators to decide whether they'll take what I've stated into account or not. I hope you can still see some worth in my review, again I'm willing to return here and do another one whenever you want. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 05:45, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Looking at WP:FACC, FAC coords have not yet taken a look at this nomination. No need to rush, though. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 13:02, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

New Zealand red admiral

Nominator(s): AxonsArachnida (talk) 07:02, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

This article is about Vanessa gonerilla, the most prominent butterfly species in New Zealand. The species is a common sight in summer and is well known to all who live here. As such, the species has received substantial research, which I have attempted to present here in its entirety. The article has passed GA review and has also been peer reviewed, which generated plenty of useful feedback. Having gone through these processes, I believe it is now ready to be assessed for FA status. AxonsArachnida (talk) 07:02, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

Note for reviewers: The Gibbs (1980) book is heavily used as reference material. It will be difficult for most reviewers to get access to. I've got images of the relevant pages and can send them to reviewers if requested. AxonsArachnida (talk) 07:06, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

@AxonsArachnida It is available on the Internet Archive. BorgQueen (talk) 07:21, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

It looks like its limited to preview pages only? AxonsArachnida (talk) 07:23, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

Did you click the "Borrow" button? BorgQueen (talk) 07:25, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

Oh my god. This is amazing, I wonder how many other difficult to access books are on there. Thanks. AxonsArachnida (talk) 08:37, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

Note to reviewers: please remember to return the book when you are done looking something up. If you have it borrowed, nobody else can borrow it at the same time. Loans auto-expire eventually, but until they do, you have exclusive access. RoySmith (talk) 09:54, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

Another tip; even for books that are now available to borrow without disability access, you can view pages by searching keywords. This is often enough to check a source. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 08:34, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

Comments from Mike Christie

• "The red admiral was first described in taxonomy (the science of naming and describing species)": I appreciate that you're trying to make a technical term clear to a lay reader, but I think "taxonomy" is a sufficiently common word to skip the parenthetical explanation, especially since it is linked.
  • Fair enough. Removed.
• f we're going to mention the possible/disputed decline in the lead, would it also make sense to mention the IUCN "not threatened" assessment in that paragraph?
  • I assume you mean the NZTCS classification (IUCN hasn't done this species). I've gone ahead and added that.
• "Because of the high level of parasitism by E. intricatoria, it has been suggested that this may be partly responsible for the perceived decline of the red admiral." I think the syntax could be cleaner here, but I'm not actually sure what the intended meaning is. Do you mean the high level of parasitism has led to suggestions that the red admiral is really in decline? Or that it has led to suggestions that there is a perception of decline which may not be real? The same question applies to the related sentence in the body.
  • Reworded to be clearer.
• The subsection "Etymology" has "is commonly referred to as the red admiral" just before it, and "is commonly referred to as the New Zealand red admiral" in its first section. A bit repetitive and slightly contradictory. How about eliminating the subsection header, and making it "The mainland subspecies is commonly referred to as the red admiral or New Zealand red admiral, whereas the Chatham Islands subspecies is referred to as the Chatham Island red admiral. Vanessa gonerilla is also referred to as kahukura in the indigenous Māori language. The word kahukura is derived from kakahu and hura, which mean garment and red, respectively." Or if you think the subsection is worth keeping, make it "Naming and etymology" and start it after the mention of the subspecies.
  • Your wording is great, went with that.
• "The red admiral is somewhat similar to the yellow admiral (Vanessa itea), which overlap in distribution and are frequently found together." Suggest "The red admiral is somewhat similar to the yellow admiral (Vanessa itea), which overlaps with it in distribution and is frequently found with it."
  • Reworded.
• "In the red admiral, the uppermost of these setae are shorter than its base, whereas in the yellow admiral the same setae are longer than its base". I don't understand this. What does "its base" refer to?
  • I've tried to clarify on this. It's a bit of a tricky structure to describe briefly. I clarified the setae are mounted on thickened stalks and that in the red admiral, the uppermost of the setae are shorter than their thickened stalks. You might want to take a peek at Gibbs (1980) page 109 to see drawings of the structures to see if you agree with my description.

    Wow. You're not kidding; that's hard to describe. If I understand correctly, the illustrations show compound setae, meaning that there are multiple hairs emerging from multiple conjoined thickened stalks. The distinguishing factor for caterpillars of B. itea and B. gonerilla is that if you look at the mid-dorsal compound setae, and find the individual seta that is uppermost, and look at the length of the hair of that uppermost seta as compared to the length of the individual thickened stalk supporting only that hair (as opposed to the compound set of thickened stalks), then the ratio of those two lengths is the distinguishing factor? Assuming that's right, I think even a simple pencil sketch would help the reader. You could try WP:GLI if your skills are not up to it. A separate question: do you feel that an expert would be able to correctly interpret your current wording without using an illustration? If so, I think that's good enough for FA, though I would still want an illustration if possible. But if you don't think an expert could correctly interpret the description, then I think that's a problem. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:18, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

    • I might be able to draw it. Presumably I can't copy the drawings from the book for copyright reasons, so I'll need to find a caterpillar and look at it under microscope. I'll see what I can do. AxonsArachnida (talk) 19:57, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

      You can't trace it, but you can do a freehand drawing based on the picture you see in Gibbs. My understanding is so long as you're not tracing it it's a fresh artwork, based on Gibbs' original, and not a copy. Nikki, can you confirm? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:04, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

      You'd need to avoid creating a derivative work, which might be tricky to do if there's only a single image reference. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:29, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

      The last two times I asked Graphics Lab for help I was ignored, but I'll give it another go. AxonsArachnida (talk) 06:17, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

      I'm going to go ahead and support; I don't think this should hold up featured status. It sounds like from what Nikki is saying that the Graphics Lab won't be able to help anyway; I don't think it will be easy to avoid creating a derivative work, though perhaps it would be OK if you don't duplicate the layout that Gibbs uses. If you have other references that show what compound setae look like, a freehand drawing based on more than one source would probably be OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:27, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

      Oh I actually went out and caught a caterpillar and made a drawing of its setae. I uploaded that drawing to imgur and gave a link to that for the GL folks. AxonsArachnida (talk) 07:49, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

• stinging hairs (trichomes)". I don't think we need the word trichomes in this article, but the link is useful. I would suggest dropping the parenthesis and linking "stinging hairs" to trichome.
  • Works for me.
• Is the high egg mortality rate due to hatching failure or predation of some kind? I see you cover egg predation later, so perhaps it's not necessary to mention it here.
  • It's primarily due to parasitism, but other factors also contributed ie some eggs were just non-viable or disappeared. I added "....which was due to parasitism and other factors" as a quick explanation of the statistics.
• don't think we need the parenthetical explanations of Macquarie Island or "parasitoid". I would get rid of "adventive" and link "introduced species" instead.
  • I agree with all these except parasitoid. Lay people usually don't know the difference between parasitoid/parasite, so its good to clarify.
• "Because P. puparum appears to be unable to survive overwintering in the red admiral pupa, it is insufficient to sustain the population of P. puparum and other hosts are needed to maintain it" With this sentence structure, the "it" after the comma really refers to the pupa, so I think this needs rewording. How about "P. puparum appears to be unable to survive overwintering in the red admiral pupa, so it requires other hosts to sustain its population"?
  • That works.
• "although the surveys were suggested to be an overestimate": can we simplify this to "although the surveys may have been overestimates"?
  • Reworded to that.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:15, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

Thanks @Mike Christie, I've left some replies above. AxonsArachnida (talk) 07:33, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Struck all but one point. I expect to support once that last point is sorted out. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:31, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

Support. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:28, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

RoySmith

• What's the rule on capitalizing common names of species. African striped weasel, Alcathoe bat, and Alpine ibex all use an initial capital in running text, but here we've got just "red admiral". Which is right? RoySmith (talk) 22:28, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

  I always thought it was no capitals unless it's a proper noun ie "African" and "Alcathoe" (refers to greek mythology character) in your examples. I think the "Alpine" in the Alpine ibex refers to the Alps, so would also be considered a proper noun (I'm less clear about that one). AxonsArachnida (talk) 06:36, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  Could you ask at WT:MOSCAPS to see what the experts say? RoySmith (talk) 13:14, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  They pointed me to MOS:LIFE where its stated "English vernacular ("common") names are given in lower case in article prose (plains zebra, mountain maple, and southwestern red-tailed hawk) and in sentence case at the start of sentences and in other places where the first letter of the first word is capitalized. They are additionally capitalized where they contain proper names". AxonsArachnida (talk) 04:40, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• The two subspecies are very similar and are difficult to distinguish This is stated right next to photos of each species (red and yellow). Even to my untrained eye, it's really obvious which is which. So the "difficult to distinguish" statement seems a bit suss.
  • I think you're mistaking the comparison of the two subspecies of V. gonerilla (which this sentence is talking about), with the comparison of Vanessa gonerilla with Vanessa itea.
    • Hmmm, so I am, but that's an easy mistake to make since the previous two sentences are talking about comparing gonerilla to itea. This needs a bit of rearranging to make it clear that you've moved on to a new topic. Maybe a new paragraph? Do we have photos of the two different sub-species?
      • I've added an image of the Chatham Islands subspecies (merged it with the mainland species photo into a multi image so you can see them side by side). Also put the subspecies stuff in a separate paragraph. Hopefully it doesn't look too image dense.
• The barrel-shaped egg ... has nine ribs that run vertically up the surface of the egg What does it mean for a rib to be "vertical". An egg could presumably be held in any orientation; in some the ribs will be vertical, in some they will be horizontal. Is there a top and bottom of an egg, like there are for an adult specimen?
  • There are a top to bottom, but there's no details beyond that. It's worth noting that the eggs are loose, they're glued down with eggs standing upright, so the ribs generally run vertically. There's excepts because occasionally the eggs get laid in a weird way etc etc. I'm not sure how to proceed with rewording this.
    • You've explained it well here. Just say the same thing in the article.
      • Done.
• The species can be found in a variety of habitat should that be "habitats" (plural)?
  • Reworded.
• The egg has a low survival rate I would have written "eggs have", but maybe that's just a regional English thing?
  • No your way sounds more natural.
• I had made a bunch of comments when this was at peer review. It looks like all of those have been addressed, and in general I'm pretty happy with the current version. RoySmith (talk) 23:06, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

  Thanks @RoySmith, I've left a few replies above. AxonsArachnida (talk) 07:40, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  Thanks @RoySmith. I've finished going through your replies. Nothing more to address. AxonsArachnida (talk) 07:05, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

Support Comments from Jim

I made a some minor edits, please check. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 08:55, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

Thanks @Jimfbleak, I've addressed your comments below. AxonsArachnida (talk) 07:50, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

• are known to... is overworked and usually redundant. Just state the facts without this phrase
  • Removed these instances.
• Also coloured.
  • Removed where applicable.
• There are two subspecies of red admiral, which occur on the mainland and on the Chatham Islands respectively.—Why respectively? You haven't named the subspecies, so there is nothing to order.
  • Removed.
• The wings are coloured blackish (x2) —The wings are blackish.
  • Fixed.
• landmark taxonomic paper—first word is an opinion, I'd say.
  • It's a correct opinion, but I see your point. Removed.
• You need an etymology for the binomial. Vanessa is from Swift's character, you can also download the full text of that (How Vanessa Became a Butterfly: A Psychologist's Adventure in Entomological Etymology by Cleveland Kent Evans) from Names: A Journal of Onomastics. gonerilla is probably derived from the Shakespearean character, Goneril, the daughter of King Lear.
  • I've added the genus name meaning. I think your species name suggestion is a bit too close to original research, so I've left it alone.
• which mean garment and red, respectively.— which mean "garment" and "red", respectively.
  • Added.
• The mandibular gland, which is located near the mouth and produces saliva-like substances, of the red admiral caterpillar has been found to produce high amounts of chemosensory proteins (proteins that interact with other chemicals to make them detectable).— clunky and yet another has been found. Perhaps The caterpillar's mandibular gland, which is located near the mouth and secretes saliva-like substances, produces high amounts of chemosensory proteins (proteins that interact with other chemicals to make them detectable).
  • Your wording works, thanks.
• The fly Pales, from the family Tachinidae, is also known to parasitise the red admiral caterpillar— Pales is a large genus of fly, most of which don't occur in NZ. Name the actual species, which is probably the NZ endemic Pales usitata, or if your source doesn't make this clear, say A fly in the genus Pales.... And dump is also known to.
  • Reworded.
• Chalcites lucidus— Perhaps use the English name shining bronze cuckoo instead? Also, I assume that this is the nominate subspecies Chalcites lucidus lucidus which is the form found in NZ, don't know if that merits a mention?
  • Reworded.
• that the red admiral is in decline, but because there are no historical records of their abundance—its abundance
  • Reworded.

• I've fixed the formatting of the poem, and I'm now happy to support, good luck Jimfbleak - talk to me? 08:18, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

Traumnovelle

Is there a better source for the distribution than Inaturalist reportings? I see two in Northland and its entirely possible that the lack of sightings is to do with human factors rather than the species not being present in the area. It'd be somewhat odd for a rather well distributed species to stop at the Northland-Auckland border. Traumnovelle (talk) 21:22, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

It's not odd at all. Urtica ferox is almost absent from the Northland region (estimated to be only 250ish individuals). The lack of sightings won't be due to human factors. Plenty of sparsely populated places have observations and Northland has loads of prolific iNaturalist users. Similarly, the yellow admiral has plenty of observations in the region and stands out as much as a red admiral does. I'd rather use a peer reviewed source to support this, but it isn't explicitly stated anywhere, although its well known among Lepidoptera experts. As for the two observations in Northland, they're likely individuals that got blown over from elsewhere (note how the wings of both observations are extremely tattered and worn). AxonsArachnida (talk) 08:04, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

Perhaps the distribution is even further south then? It just caught my eye because ecologically there is not much difference between the north of the Oruawharo/Otamatea River and north of Waiwera/Tahakeroa/Makarau Rivers. There are only 3 observations north of the Whangaparaoa Peninsula in the Auckland Region, one also appears to have been blown of course. Tree nettle is not found in that area either. Traumnovelle (talk) 20:10, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

I've updated the map to reflect this. AxonsArachnida (talk) 06:13, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

• Image review passed. So happy to Support. I don't have any comments/suggestions after reading through the article.

2010 Yazoo City tornado

Nominator(s): GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:28, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

This article is about the Yazoo City tornado from April 24th, 2010. A very long-tracked and violent EF4 tornado that was the deadliest and most destructive of the 2010 season, and (not so) fun fact, the worst natural disaster in Mississippi since the infamous Hurricane Katrina nearly five years prior. I've worked and researched on this tornado extensively for several months and reviewing my article again, it looks worthy of FA status again. If you're willing to review the article and help out, that would be great and greatly appreciated! GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:28, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

Lightbulb Noob

Will review soon. Lightbulb Noob (talk) 17:07, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

Lead

• "The tornado caused 10 fatalities and 146 injuries during its 152.66 miles (245.68 km) path, making the path length one of the longest on record" --> The tornado caused 10 fatalities and 146 injuries along its 152.66 miles (245.68 km) path, which was one of the longest tornado paths on record. (The current sentence kinda implies that the fatalities and injuries makes the path one of the longest on record, and along would be better than during, as its a measurement of length, not a timeframe.)
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The intense supercell produced the tornado 6 miles (9.7 km) of Tallulah" --> 6 miles what of Tallulah?
  • Added "west" GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The tornado briefly weakened before strengthening back to EF3 intensity." --> Maybe elaborate a little on the brief weakening? Like down to EF2 strength or something along those lines.
  • Looking at it, I'll actually redo the entire sentence after realizing it didn't go back to EF3+ intensity until Yazoo County. GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "849 homes, businesses, and structures along the tornado's path were damaged or destroyed, hundreds of residents across the affected counties were left without electricity, and severe agricultural and timber damage was inflicted." --> per MOS:NUM I would recommended not starting the sentence with a number, maybe do something along the lines of "Along the tornado's path, 849 homes, businesses, and structures were damaged or destroyed, hundreds of residents across the affected counties were left without electricity, and severe damage was inflicted to agricultural and timber."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

Meteorological setup

• "On April 20, the weather forecasting agency, Storm Prediction Center (SPC)," --> Maybe put "the US weather forecasting agency," or just say "On April 20, the Storm Prediction Center"
  • Added the "U.S." GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "A favorable low-level wind shear," --> Remove "A" and the comma after shear.
  • Removed the "A" and comma GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

Tornado summary

• "The tornado touched down in Madison Parish, west of Tallulah. at 11:09 a.m. CDT." --> Remove the period after Tallulah and replace it with a comma.
  • Replaced the period GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The tornado snapped an electrical transmission tower at low-end EF3 intensity. A mobile home was destroyed, several homes experienced complete loss of their exterior walls, a home was completely unroofed, and several trees were snapped or uprooted." --> Try and specify if this is a different area than Parker Road, maybe by adding "then" after "The tornado".
  • Added the "then" GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "A home was mostly leveled along Sea Island Drive. Several poorly-built homes were heavily damaged or destroyed, a couple of homes were unroofed, and several trees were snapped." --> I would recommend merging these two sentences.
  • Merged GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The tornado made a sharp northward turn, inflicting low-end EF2 damage south of Cypress Lake, snapping numerous tree damage." --> "snapping numerous tree damage" should be replaced with either "snapping numerous trees" or "inflicting significant damage to trees".
  • First option GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The tornado tore through the southern parts of Panther Swamp National Wildlife Refuge, intensifying to high-end EF2 damage." --> Change "intensifying to high-end EF2 damage" to "intensifying to high-end EF2 strength"
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "A 31-year-old mother here was killed after shielding her three children underneath a mattress, who survived the tornado due to her action." --> "A 31-year-old mother here was killed after shielding her three children underneath a mattress, with the children surviving the tornado due to her action." This is so it can't be interpreted that the mother saved the mattress.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The tornado weakened slightly to EF1 intensity crossing Ridge Road. Dozens of homes experienced minor to moderate structural damage." --> "The tornado weakened slightly to EF1 intensity while crossing Ridge Road, with dozens of homes experiencing minor to moderate structural damage."
  • Fixed the sentence GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• " A pool house experienced major destruction, with most of the building collapsing, and several trees snapped." --> "A pool house experienced major destruction, with most of the building collapsing and several trees nearby being snapped."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The tornado destroyed a mobile home along Powell Road at high-end EF2 intensity, with a home nearby sustaining significant roof damage." --> Change "with a home" to "with another home"
  • Replaced the "a" GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "For the rest of Yazoo County," --> "For the rest of the tornado's track in Yazoo County,"
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "After some slight weakening, the tornado restrengthened to mid-range EF2 intensity south of French Camp," --> "After some slight weakening, the tornado once again restrengthened to mid-range EF2 intensity south of French Camp,"
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Five people were killed in this neighborhood." --> "Within this neighborhood, five people were killed."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The tornado crossed Pensacola Road, intensifying to mid-range EF2 strength, ripping away most of a roof from a brick home and snapping trees. The tornado made an eastward turn, downing metal poles along Ecoplex Road. The tornado crossed MS 9 at low-end EF2 intensity, snapping numerous trees along the highway. The tornado traveled a 2.87 mi (4.62 km) through Oktibbeha County, weakening to EF1 intensity. The tornado dissipated 5 mi (8.0 km) north of Sturgis." --> I feel like several of these sentences could be merged together, as at the moment it's a tad choppy.
  • Merged a couple of the sentences. GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

Case studies

• "A study published in 2015 by three researchers from Mississippi State University and the National Weather Service office in Jackson, MS, Gutter B.F., Brown M.E., and Cox D.A., analyzed how the vegetation discontinuities, abrupt change from plant coverage to a boundary of reduced coverage, left by the tornado, as seen on Landsat imagery, increased convective activity, as seen with cloud-to-ground lightning data." --> I would remove some commas, maybe like: "A study published in 2015 by three researchers from Mississippi State University and the National Weather Service office in Jackson, MS, Gutter B.F., Brown M.E., and Cox D.A., analyzed how the vegetation discontinuities, the abrupt change from plant coverage to a boundary of reduced coverage, left behind by the tornado increased convective activity, as seen with cloud-to-ground lightning data."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

Impacts

• "The tornado did $373.5 million in total damage in Mississippi," --> "The tornado inflicted $373.5 million in total damage in Mississippi,"
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "with 100 residences in Yazoo County and 38 in Choctaw County designated uninhabitable." --> "with 100 residences in Yazoo County and 38 in Choctaw County designated as uninhabitable."
  • Added the "as" GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "In Yazoo and Holmes counties, portions of Mississippi Highway 3 and MS 14 and MS 17" --> In Yazoo and Holmes counties, portions of Mississippi Highway 3, MS 14, and MS 17"
  • removed the first "and" and added the comma GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "University of Mississippi Medical Center in Jackson saw 27 patients, with a couple of them from Yazoo City," --> "University of Mississippi Medical Center in Jackson saw 27 patients, with a couple of them being from Yazoo City,"
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Insurance company, State Farm, reported that they've received over 360 claims on auto and home damage in Mississippi after the tornado." --> The insurance company State Farm reported that they've received over 360 claims on auto and home damage in Mississippi after the tornado.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Nationwide spokeswomen reported that 35 claims were placed two days after the tornado." --> "A Nationwide spokeswomen reported that 35 claims were placed two days after the tornado."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Electricity company, Entergy, reported that the tornado caused extensive damage to Entergy facilities," --> "The electricity company Entergy reported that the tornado caused extensive damage to Entergy facilities,"
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "were not used as residents were afraid to use it and hunkered down in the Fire Department building" --> Reads weirdly, do you mean "afraid to use it and hunker down in the Fire Department building"?
  • The resident sheltered in the Fire Department building rather than in the shelter, I think its missing a couple of words. GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

Aftermath

• "Governor of Louisiana, Bobby Jindal, declared a state of emergency for Madison Parish." --> Okay, I'm seeing a trend, was "Insurance company, State Farm", "Electricity company, Entergy", and "Governor of Louisiana, Bobby Jindal" a reccomendation from another reviewer? If so, it might be best to leave it as-is.
  • No I'm just terrible at putting "The" or other starting words in front of those sentences. GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
    • Oh well, understandable. Lightbulb Noob (talk) 21:44, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "14 deputy fire marshals were deployed to disaster zones over the weekend to watch out for looters, though there were only minor cases of looting in Holmes County." --> "Over the weekend, 14 deputy fire marshals were deployed to disaster zones in order to monitor for looters, though there were only minor cases of looting reported in Holmes County."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The Mississippi Department of Mental Health and Warren-Yazoo Mental Health Service collaborated to organize a stress management seminar at the Yazoo County High School, where victims and first responders received help from trauma after the tornado. Despite the advertisement for the event, no victims or first responders came to the mental health seminar." -->
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The Mississippi Department of Mental Health and Warren-Yazoo Mental Health Service collaborated to organize a stress management seminar at the Yazoo County High School, where victims and first responders could recieve help for trauma after the tornado. Despite the advertisement for the event, no victims or first responders came to the mental health seminar."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "with the owner of a local construction company, Paul Parker, reporting that dozens of homes were being rebuilt, though he also stated the workload was overwhelming and was concerned about the storms forecasted next week." --> "with the owner of a local construction company, Paul Parker, reporting that dozens of homes were being rebuilt, though he also stated the workload was overwhelming and was concerned about the storms forecasted for the next week."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "with a truck loaded with supplies and essentials, including six pallets of bottled water and first-aid supplies, to the Broadway Church of Christ, serving as the official distribution site of the disaster area." --> "with a truck loaded with supplies and essentials, including six pallets of bottled water and first-aid supplies, being driven to the Broadway Church of Christ, which served as the official distribution site for the disaster area."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

Recovery

• "Complex rented out trailers as temporary office spaces, multiple large containers were also brought in as temporary warehouses to store raw materials and products as production was outsourced to several areas." --> "Complex rented out trailers as temporary office spaces, and multiple large containers were also brought in as temporary warehouses to store raw materials and products as production was outsourced to several areas."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "By June 14, all Complex plant's 11 processing units were operating at 90% capacity and productivity, though debris was still present on the plant." --> "By June 14, all Complex plant's 11 processing units were operating at 90% capacity and productivity, though debris was still present on the property."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Afterwards, at some point, a larger office building separate from the plant was constructed, along with the construction of one large warehouse, a new electrical system, and a large steel enclosure to protect the distillation and oil blending units, which was rebuilt to include a truck loading area." --> Change "Afterwards, at some point," to just "Afterwards" or something along the lines of "Some time later".
  • Changed to just "Afterwards" GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "41 residents in Eagle Bend have received housing, and a disaster recovery center was established at the Eagle Lake Volunteer Fire Department to assist with unemployment and small businesses." --> "In Eagle Bend, 41 residents received housing, and a disaster recovery center was established at the Eagle Lake Volunteer Fire Department to assist with unemployment and affected small businesses."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)
• "22 members of the Saint Pius X youth ministry disaster relief team assisted in rebuilding homes in Yazoo City." --> Spell out 22 or reword so that the number doesn't start the sentence.
  • Added "about" at the beginning. GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

I think that's all I got for comments. Good luck with this review, and great work on the article. Lightbulb Noob (talk) 20:05, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

@GrenadinesDes Pinging so you are notified. Lightbulb Noob (talk) 20:09, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

@Lightbulb Noob Done GrenadinesDes (talk) 21:32, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

Alright, then I Support this article getting FA status, really good job on this. Lightbulb Noob (talk) 21:48, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

Review from Hurricanehink

Seeing that I have a weather-related FAC of my own, I figured I should review.

Lead

• The opening sentence is too long at 57 words. Can you find a way not to say “Yazoo City” three times in one sentence? That would help.
  • Removed the third mention of it and the sentence and refixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:26, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
    • It's still 53 words long. "During the morning to early afternoon hours[note 1] of Saturday" - this is ten words without saying almost a single thing about the event. I'm not saying the info shouldn't be in the article, but you need to introduce the topic in a briefer way. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:50, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
      • Shorten and split down. GrenadinesDes (talk) 01:01, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• The note says the tornado occurred in Central daylight time, but the infobox says CST. Times should be consistent.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:26, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
    • The times in the article are not consistent. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:50, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
      • It's confusing because the NCEI summaries uses CST, but other official weather sites uses CDT. Since CDT is used from March - November, I'll probably use that.GrenadinesDes (talk) 01:01, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”152.66 mi (245.68 km)” - per MOS:UNIT, all units are supposed to be spelled upon their first usage.
  • I assume the "mi" should be fixed to "miles" since I can't do that to km GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:26, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
    • Why can't you spell out kilometers? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:50, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
      • If I tried to, it'll basically just give me an error message about converting to unknown unit. GrenadinesDes (talk) 01:01, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
        • Did you ever figure this out? Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 14:31, 3 October 2026 (UTC)
• ”$409.5 million (2010 USD)” - this would be a good place to indicate that all currency totals are in 2010 USD
  • Added GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:26, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”was the first violent tornado of the year” - unclear what “violent tornado” means. The average person might think every tornado is violent.
  • Fair, I clarified by adding EF4+ GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:26, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”The intense supercell produced the tornado a few miles east of Tallulah” - “few miles” isn’t helpful to someone who uses kilometers. You use “a few miles” again later in the paragraph.
  • fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:26, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
    • You still have "a few miles west" and "a few miles north" in the body of the article. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:50, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
      • The initial statement was supposed to address the first statement where it was brought up GrenadinesDes (talk) 01:01, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
        • I see you fixed it, thanks. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:11, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• The second paragraph talks a lot about the tornado weakening and strengthening. From my understanding of how tornadoes are rated, the EF1/2/3 ratings are based on a tornado’s damage to a building, which is not necessarily reflective of the tornado strengthening and weakening.
  • I'll just limit the amount of usage of intensity and bring them up when the tornado was mentioned to intensified/weakened in the NCEI summaries. GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:26, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
    • It still feels like a lot of mention of various EF categories. Did the NCEI say that the tornado weakened/strengthened all of these cases? For example, "The tornado inflicted EF2-EF3 damage and maintained intensity before restrengthening to low-end EF4 intensity southwest of Durant, destroying a couple of homes." It was already established that was an EF4, so is the EF2-EF3 needed here? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:29, 2 October 2026 (UTC)
      • @GrenadinesDes: wanted to make sure you saw this. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 00:09, 3 October 2026 (UTC)
• ”Numerous homes and businesses along the tornado's path were damaged or destroyed” - is there a total number of damaged/destroyed buildings, something more specific than “Numerous”?
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:26, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
    • You shouldn't link WP:CALC in the note though. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:50, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
    • fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 01:01, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• The first sentence of the last lead paragraph is too long
  • Split the sentence, though I would like it if you could make suggestions on how I could fix lengthiness issues rather than point it out because sometimes I can't really figure out how to fix it by myself. GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:26, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
    • I'd rather not suggest how to rewrite, as I would be contributing to the article's prose at that point, rather than just reviewing it. I will always point out sentences that are longer than 30 words. Sometimes they need to be split, and sometimes reorganized in other ways (like passive voice versus active voice). If you need help refining the prose, you should seek the guild of copyeditors or an independent user (who's not reviewing the article). ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:50, 3 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”National Guardsmen were deployed to Yazoo City and search and rescue operations occurred across the affected areas as state officials, several organizations, local businesses, and non-profit groups, including The Salvation Army and multiple churches, arrived in areas devastated by the tornado, especially in Yazoo City, aiding in the relief and recovery efforts.” - also too long
  • Split and cutdown the sentence, but same advice from above GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:26, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

Meteorological setup

• The meteorological setup in general has a lot of detail that isn’t the clearest to a non-expert. I gave some examples.
• ”A favorable kinematic and thermodynamic environment possibly near or ahead of an advancing front.” - missing verb. Also, “kinematic” could use a link or explanation
  • Added a verb and added links GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:06, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
    • Better, but why the "possibly"? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:11, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

      Removed GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:55, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

• ”A strengthening upper-level storm system traversed across the Central United States, with the cold front moving easterly” - this is the first time a cold front is mentioned, so it should be “a”, not “the cold front”, unless I missed something.
  • Replaced the word GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:06, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Development of severe thunderstorms was occurring during the morning hours” - couldn’t this just be “Severe thunderstorms developed during the morning hours”?
  • Fair point, will replace the sentence. GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:06, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Forecast soundings, observations that deciphers the environment of an area, over the high risk area depicted a 60–70 mph (95–115 km/h) low-level jet supporting large hodographs, which plot winds from soundings from Earth's atmosphere, and storm relative helicity of 300-600 joules per kilogram (j/kg), and mid-level convective available potential energy of 1500—2500 j/kg.” - too long/complex for one sentence
  • Split into 2 sentences. GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:06, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Morning convection were expected” - were or was?
  • Fixed to "was" GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:06, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”At 10:28 a.m. CDT, a couple of large thunderstorms began demonstrating supercell characteristics in southeastern Mississippi, with the storms expected to move into Alabama throughout the late morning hours, with dew points reaching 60–69 °F (16–21 °C).” - two problems. You have two clauses here starting with “with”, but also, it’s unclear the significance of the dew point
  • Removed the second "with", and the dew points was brought up in the mesoscale discussion for that day, probably wouldn't have been brought up if it was irrelevant. GrenadinesDes (talk) 01:01, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
    • There's no link to dew point, and no explanation its relevance to the topic, so the average reader might not know the significance. In short, the more moisture the air contains, the higher its dew point. That fact has been established a few times, but it doesn't seem to be related to the part about the supercell characteristics, or its expected path. Also, right now it says "and dew points reaching the upper 60s, conducive for continued se." I think you might've missed something. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:11, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

      "In short, the more moisture the air contains, the higher its dew point. That fact has been established a few times," hmm fair then, ill remove GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:59, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

• ”Large-scale ascent was to continue downstream” - change “was to continue” to “continued”?
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:06, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”though there was still some uncertainty on where storms will develop” - the “will” should be “would”, but even then, didn’t the supercells already form at this point?
  • Statement removed GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:06, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”With favorable low-level wind shear and a moist and unstable boundary layer maintaining the possibilities of strong tornadoes throughout the afternoon as discrete supercell development was started ahead of the developing quasi-linear convective system (QLCS)” - another long/complex sentence that I’m not sure is grammatically correct
  • Fixed the potential issues GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:06, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

Tornado summary

• ”The tornado touched down in Madison Parish, a few miles west of Tallulah.” - I suggest adding the time here
  • Added GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”along the I-20” - two things. First, it’s more of a California thing to call roads “the 405” or whatever. Second, Interstate should be spelled out since this is the first mention. Remember, all abbreviations need to be spelled out in their first usage.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• You mention the tornado crossing Willow Bayou Road twice. Did it?
  • Removed the second mention GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”several inches of spilled materials” can you find a way to either include metric, or avoid saying “several inches”?
  • Sadly theres no specific measurement other than "several inches", so I guess I'll just removed. GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”with storm spotters confirming a large tornado, with a forward speed of 55 mph (89 km/h)” - you have two “with…” clauses in the same sentence.
  • Removed the first "with" and redone the statement. GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”The tornado made a sharp northward turn, snapping several hardwood trees at EF1 intensity, before strengthening slightly to low-end EF2 intensity south of Cypress Lake, inflicting more significant tree damage.” - you’ve mentioned a lot of tree damage so far, but twice in one sentence is a bit much.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Around the same time, an intense tornado debris signature was evident on doppler radar alongside a strong velocity couplet, with storm spotters reporting a large, wedge tornado was on the ground, led to an issuance of a tornado emergency for Yazoo, Issaquena, Sharkey, and Warren counties at 11:47 a.m. CDT.” - too long/complex for one sentence
  • Sure, fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”The tornado reached peak intensity at low-end EF4 strength with windspeeds up to 170 mph (270 km/h).” - “up to”, or was the peak 170? Were these winds recorded or estimated? The infobox says it like it’s actually 170, not “up to 170” (which could mean anything below/including 170 mph). Also, since this was the peak, how was this determined?
  • Peak estimated wind, and added the determination. GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• You mention “outbuilding” a bunch of times without saying what that is. I also noticed in the third Yazoo City paragraph that you mention two outbuildings being destroyed in the same area, but I’m not sure if it’s the same one or not: “an outbuilding nearby was completely destroyed” and “a small outbuilding was destroyed.”
  • I mean, I don't know why the average reader of the article needs to know what an outbuilding is. I'll still add a small explanation, but I'm just wondering. As for the latter point, the surveyors almost never specifies what kind of outbuilding got affected, like a garage, so I just label them as just outbuildings, though I will atleast add some specification. GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Outbuildings were destroyed, hardwood trees were snapped and debarked.” - missing a word
  • I assume "and" is the missing word GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Throughout Yazoo County, four people were killed” - you only mentioned one of them (the mother protecting her kids). Are there details on the others? (Sorry if I missed it)
  • Sadly I couldn't really find where the other three deaths occurred location wise, could be along Old Benton Road since quite a few mobile homes were destroyed along there. GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”The tornado made a sharp eastward turn, intensifying to low-end EF3 strength, crossing Springhill Road, destroying a single-wide mobile home.” - missing an “and” before “destroying”
  • fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Several vehicles were blown off the highway, including three members from a Vicksburg metal band, Burning Windsor, Dustin Thomas, Nathan Wright, and Devin Cessna, who were traveling northbound when the tornado struck.” - since the band doesn’t have an article, IDK if you should be naming some of the injured people by name. It seems like excessive detail saying “Nathan and Devin were taken by ambulance to local hospitals”. Especially when none of the other injuries have this detail.
  • Removed the names GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”The tornado then entered Attala County, snapping or uprooting several trees, before strengthening to EF2 intensity” - the last intensity mention was also EF2 intensity in the previous paragraph. Did it weaken and restrengthen again?
  • Redid the statement GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• Watch for overlooking. I saw French Camp linked twice in two consecutive paragraphs
  • Fixed that specific example GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• How come the forestry damage isn’t under “case studies” or “impacts”?
  • Misplaced paragraph GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

Case studies

• ”Mesoscale boundaries are also being considered” - why the present tense for a study in 2011?
  • Changed GrenadinesDes (talk) 10:36, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”the vegetation discontinuities” - no idea what this is
  • added explanation GrenadinesDes (talk) 10:36, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”For this case, the increase in convection is likely attributed to mesoscale circulations along thermal and moisture discontinuities, which is seen on days with synoptically weak forcing.” - present tense?
  • Changed GrenadinesDes (talk) 10:36, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”As a result, 2010 saw a greater increase of convective activities on days with weak synoptic forcing at 66%, compared to prior years of 50%.” - what does this mean?
  • Changed GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:35, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”On July 1, 2015, two researchers from the Florida State University's Department of Geography, Tyler Fricker and James B. Elsner” - you didn’t name previous researchers
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:35, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”A portion of every tornadoes” - grammar
  • Fixed the error GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:35, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”The tornado with the highest energy was the Yazoo City tornado” - highest in the study? Or highest ever recorded?
  • I don't see the study claiming the latter, so I'll just choose the former. GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:35, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

Impacts and aftermath

• ”portions of State Highway Three and State Highways 14 and 17” is it really called State Highway Three, spelled out like that?
  • Turns out, its supposed to be Mississippi Highway GrenadinesDes (talk) 16:39, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”State insurance commissioner Mike Chaney estimated that insurance estimates” - please avoid the redundancy of estimated estimates?
  • removed the redundancy GrenadinesDes (talk) 16:39, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”90%… were insured/was uninsured” - both should be “were”
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 16:39, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Nationwide spokeswomen reported that 35 claims were placed by Monday” - I had to go up to the first paragraph of the lead to see another reference to a day of the week. The “by Monday” could be “by two days after the tornado.”
  • Sure, will fix it GrenadinesDes (talk) 16:39, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”reported that over 390 reports of property losses were recorded” - another bad redundancy
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 16:39, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Electricity company, Entergy, reported that the tornado caused extensive damage to Entergy facilities, leaving 1,500 Entergy customers without power, with 457 in Yazoo County, 338 in Holmes County, and 319 customers in Attala County, with Entergy predicting power to be fully restored in Yazoo County by Wednesday, April 28, while everyone in Holmes County should get power back by the April 27, and the majority of everyone else the day after the tornado.” - too long/complex/poorly written. Also, was the power restored on time? The predictions aren’t helpful 16 years after the fact.
  • Removed the predictions GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:15, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”The Electric Power Association reported 18,000 of their customers were without power, which lowered to 1,700” - was the 18,000 a wrong estimate? Or did they quickly repair most of the outages?
  • The Latter GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:15, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Warren county” - you’re inconsistent whether County is capitalized
  • okay fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 16:39, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”The head of the Warren County Emergency Operations Center claimed” - watch for words like “claimed”, because it suggests there is doubt
  • Changed GrenadinesDes (talk) 16:39, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Warren county officials were working on a grant to purchase weather radios to distribute to residents.” - this might be too much irrelevant detail.
  • What makes it irrelevant? The paragraph it originated from addressed the issue of the tornado sirens in that county being ineffective and not activating, so that being brought up seems pretty relevant GrenadinesDes (talk) 16:39, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Officials in Durant applied for a grant to replace the old siren, but it was rejected.” - was this in the year before the tornado?
  • The article doesn't specify when this occurred, but its most likely before the tornado considering when the article came out and the usage of past tense words. GrenadinesDes (talk) 16:39, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

Response

• Unsure what’s the difference between response, aftermath, and recovery. You mention FEMA in each section for example
  • Aftermath moved down, FEMA is mentioned because they had involvements in the response and rebuilding efforts. GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Spokesman for the Mississippi Emergency Management Agency (MEMA), Greg Flynn, claimed” - avoid “claimed”
  • fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Governor of Louisiana, Bobby Jindal, declared a state of emergency for Madison Parish, with him expected to meet with the sheriff and other officials in the parish.” - the “expected” part isn’t useful 16 years later. Either it happened or it didn’t, and if you can’t verify either way, then just leave it at the state of emergency for Madison Parish.
  • Removed it GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”The declaration also noted that FEMA was continuing with damage surveying in other areas, with the expectations that more counties and additional forms of assistance were likely after the surveying was completed.” - this sounds like it was written the day of the event, not 16 years later.
  • Removed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Rescuers initially struggled to enter Yazoo County due to geographical challenges, with the county being located on a more difficult and hilly terrain that runs along this section of the Mississippi Delta, with some rescuers resorting to off-road vehicles to reach victims, according to the governor spokesperson.” - you have two “with…” clauses in the same sentence. I think this could be split in two.
  • Fixed and removed the first "with" GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”American Medical Response continued their operations in other parts of Mississippi, dispatching ambulances to affected areas, with injuries ranged from minor to severe, according to an American Medical Response spokesman.” - you don’t need to have the American Medical Response twice in the same sentence. Also, didn’t the article already cover injuries?
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”American Medical Response of Central Mississippi established a triage center in Yazoo City, with the spokesperson for American Medical Response” same as before
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”one person with severe injuries were airlifted to a hospital in Jackson” - this was in the previous section
  • Removed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”with an additional 40 Highway Patrol officers deployed across areas affected by the tornado, with state troopers and other law enforcement officers joining to help.” - another sentence with two “with…” clauses
  • Remove the first "with" GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”The state setup” - set up, not setup
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”State officials established at the Mississippi State Fair” - established what?
  • Donation center GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”though there was only minor cases of looting in Holmes County” - were, not was
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”The sheriff department also announced they've sent out two dozen deputies and 100 inmates” - get rid of “also announced they’ve”
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”using cottages that were originally built for the victims of Katrina and the cottages were available for victims eligible to acquire a cottage in all the disaster-declared counties.” - clunky wording
  • Fixed and I decided to actually move it down to the beginning of the recovery section since it looks more appropriate there. GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”The Mississippi Department of Mental Health and Warren Yazoo Mental Health Service collaborated to organize a stress management seminar at the Yazoo County High School, where several mental health professionals were gathered to help tornado victims and first responders cope from the trauma resulting from the tornado and the aftermath, though no victims or first responders came to the mental health seminar despite the advertisement for the event.” - since no one came to the event, this (long) sentence could be shorter
  • Shorten GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”By April 28, Old Benton Road was cleared of debris, with the owner of a local construction company, Paul Parker, reporting that dozens of homes were being rebuilt, though he also stated the workload was overwhelming and was concerned about the storms forecasted next week.” - this sounds like it was taken from a news article a few days after the event. Everything after “Old Benton Road was cleared of debris” doesn’t seem necessary.
  • How is the rest of the sentence unnecessary? GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Soon, volunteers were allowed in disaster area” - two paragraphs ago mentioned the volunteers
  • Removed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”with the volunteer group promising another delivery of supplies along with 150 food boxes” - again, the “promising” part isn’t useful for an event 16 years ago. Either it happened or it didn’t, and if you can’t verify, then don’t include it.
  • Okay GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”The Director of Disaster Preparedness and Response with LESM have stated that the coordinated effort helped organized the ability to place volunteers where they were needed.” - weren’t the volunteers mentioned a few paragraphs ago?
  • This is a completely different organization helping out though GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”with further funding and non-financial resources possible as the full scope of the disaster became clearer.” - would be nice to know if this happened or not
  • Removed, though may you please relax with the snarky tone sometimes an issue like this is pointed out? Maybe you're not being snarky, but it feels like that sometimes. GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
    • It's a 2,588 word review and took me a long time, so I don't appreciate being told to relax, not when the article isn't clear whether something happened or not. I could have opposed, but most of the issues here were pretty minor. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:20, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

      I understand where you're coming from, but a couple of the comments here just felt a bit snarky. That's all I'm just saying. I'm probably misinterpreting the tones of some of the comments here though. GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:32, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

• ” The Transylvania Baptist Church brought fixings to the William Bayou Church and provided dinner to local residents, rescue workers, and other guests who showed up, with plans to use William Bayou Church as a disaster relief area.” - fixings? Also, “plans to use” - again this isn’t useful for an event 16 years ago
  • "fixings?" yes, the article linked also used that word, surprisingly to me, it isn't a typo and actually is a word with a definition. Removed the latter issue though. GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

Recovery

• ”Afterwards, a larger office building separate from the plant was constructed” - when?
  • The article doesn't mention, at some point after the tornado it was constructed GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:01, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Along Highway 465, a debris collection site opened up next to a cotton gin business that was expected to stay there until June 30.” - the “expected” part feels like the article was written 16 years ago
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:01, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”State Director for Mississippi's Rural Development program and other officials from the USDA, with the assistance of local municipal and community leaders, helped rebuild a home that was significantly damaged by the tornado, as part of National Homeownership Month, a month designated in June by the USDA, with the event also highlighting the Self-Help Housing program, which assisted in people and families to acquire homes by building it themselves.” - huge sentence about rebuilding a single home
  • Split up GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:01, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”On June 17, 15 congregations based in St. Louis spent ten days to collectively raise $9,000 to Yazoo County Red Cross, with several churches in the area participating in the local initiative.” - is the “several churches part” needed when it already says 15 congregations?
  • Removed GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:01, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”In March 2017, ambers from a house fire” - embers, not ambers
  • Fixing GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:01, 4 September 2026 (UTC)
• ”Governor Haley Barbour and Lieutenant Governor Phil Bryant assessed the damage in Yazoo City, with Bryant reporting that 24 businesses were damaged by the tornado, but noting that officials were still quantifying the damage” - still quantifying the damage 16 years later?
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:01, 4 September 2026 (UTC)

Lemme know if you have any questions about any of my comments. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:12, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink any updates on this? GrenadinesDes (talk) 15:20, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

@GrenadinesDes, I was waiting for confirmation that you were finished. One major issue I noticed (and pointed out a few examples of) are several excessively long sentences:

• "The tornado traversed US 61 south of Valley Park, intensifying to high-end EF2 intensity, snapping and uprooting a large number of trees in the Delta National Forest and destroying an outbuilding along the highway, cutting through the extreme southeastern portion of Sharkey County." (43 words)
  • Cut down the sentences to two. GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Around the same time, an issuance of a tornado emergency for Yazoo, Issaquena, Sharkey, and Warren counties occurred at 11:47 a.m. CDT, based off an intense radar presentation and storm spotters reporting a large, wedge tornado was on the ground." (41 words)
  • Cut down the sentences to two. GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The tornado reached a peak width of 3,080 yd (2,820 m) along the intersection of MS 149 and MS 16, becoming the largest tornado on record in Mississippi, until the record was beaten by the Bassfield–Soso EF4 tornado almost ten years later." (42 words)
  • Cut down the sentences to two. GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Two metal building systems were completely leveled at mid-range EF3 intensity, a nearby automobile showroom had significant portions of its roof ripped away, a single-wide mobile home was destroyed, a home experienced moderate structural damage, and an outbuilding was mostly unroofed." (41 words)
  • Cut down the sentences to two. GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "At 12:24 p.m. CDT, the National Weather Service issued another tornado emergency for northeast Yazoo County and parts of Attala, Holmes, and Madison counties, noting that the tornado had a history of producing significant and widespread damage, with the tornado's forward speed estimated at 50 mph (80 km/h)." (50 words)
  • Cut down the sentences to two. GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The tornado was also the fourth-longest tracked on record in Mississippi, and was the longest tracked tornado during the doppler radar era, starting from 1988, before being exceeded by another extremely long-tracked and destructive tornado in 2021 that traveled 165.6 mi (266.5 km)." (43 words)
  • Removed a few words. GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• The estimated timber damage inflicted by the tornado was up to $19 million, with the study noting that, as helpful as these estimates were to start directing resources to the salvaging efforts, a better method of assessing forest damage events was needed later on." (44 words)
  • Cut down the sentences to two and redid the second sentence. GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "A study published in 2015 by three researchers from Mississippi State University and the National Weather Service office in Jackson, MS, Gutter B.F., Brown M.E., and Cox D.A., analyzed how the vegetation discontinuities, the abrupt change from plant coverage to a boundary of reduced coverage, left by the tornado increased convective activity, as seen with cloud-to-ground lightning data." (58 words)
  • Cut down into two sentences and removed some words GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Overall, 319 homes in Yazoo County were damaged, 114 homes in Choctaw County were damaged, 60 homes in Holmes County were damaged, 42 homes in Warren County were damaged, and 35 homes in Attala were damaged, with 100 residences in Yazoo County and 38 in Choctaw County designated as uninhabitable." (50 words)
  • Cut down into three sentences and rearranged some words. GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "State insurance commissioner Mike Chaney estimated that insurance losses were likely above $50 million after touring the affected area by helicopter, with Chaney also stating that 90% of homes in Yazoo County were insured, but another 90% in Holmes County were uninsured." (42 words)
  • Cut down into two sentences and removed some words GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "In July 2010, a pre-mitigation assessment team (PMAT) from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) published a report on the April 23–24 tornado outbreak, specifically on the Yazoo City tornado, observing and assessing the structural damage left behind and the performance of the storm shelters along the tornado's track." (49 words)
  • Cut down into two sentences and redid the second cut downed sentence. GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Spokesman for the Mississippi Emergency Management Agency (MEMA), Greg Flynn, stated that the death toll for the tornado could have been higher if not for the vigil warning by the National Weather Service and improved response systems imposed after Hurricane Katrina." (41 words)
  • Redid the sentence to barely below 40 words GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Later he recounted, "The effects of these storms have left many Mississippians with destroyed businesses and without homes", with Barbour ordering state flags to be flown at half-staff beginning Tuesday, April 27, to Friday, April 30 during the mourning period." (40 words)
  • Redid the sentence to barely below 40 words GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "On April 29, President Barack Obama declared a federal disaster for Mississippi, allocating federal aid to support state and local recovery efforts to the areas affected by the tornado, opening federal funding to people in several counties, including Attala, Choctaw, Holmes, Warren, and Yazoo Counties. " (45 words)
  • Cut down into two sentences and redid the second cut downed sentence. GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "On April 26, Firefighters from Columbus Fire Department's Task Force Two team dispatched the search and rescue team to Yazoo and Choctaw counties, with approximately 15 people assigned to the mission, determining the damage inflicted to residences and assisting in accounting for all residents in the area. (47 words)
  • Split down GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "An emergency volunteer response center was established in Yazoo City by the Mississippi Commission for Volunteer Service (MCVS) to evaluate the damage, with other volunteer response centers being established in Holmes and Choctaw counties as MCVS staff members expanded volunteer coordination operations into the aforementioned counties and Attala County." (49 words)
  • Split down and rearranged GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Between April 24 to May 25 in Yazoo County, 1,067 volunteers were registered and deployed, 163 volunteers were registered and deployed in Holmes County, and 278 volunteers were registered and deployed in Choctaw and Attala counties, with thousands of volunteer hours completed." (42 words)
  • Split into multiple sentences GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Mississippi Voluntary Organizations Active in Disaster was also holding conference calls with other member organizations to collaborate and coordinate response efforts, with LESM sending an assessment and emergency clean up team to tornado damaged areas to assist with debris removal." (40 words)
  • Split into two sentences GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Emergency assistance was available for eligible farmers and producers through the Farm Service Agency, with the state executive director stating that the Emergency Conservation Program (ECP) provides funding to affected farmers and producers, assisting in the effort of removing debris from farm fields and restoring fencing, with cost-share assistance of up to 75% of the cost of the approved practices." (60 words)
  • Cut down GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Over the next couple of days, rescue efforts spread into the rural areas of Mississippi as the federal government and American Red Cross dispatched rescue teams to the disaster zone, with tarps, meals, and water being distributed to victims as officials requested for volunteers to help coordinate efforts in debris removal, the L.T. Community Center in Yazoo City was opened for victims needing shelter, with the American Red Cross providing meals at the shelter." (74 words, the longest in the article I noticed)
  • Cut down into three sentences GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "By April 28, Old Benton Road was cleared of debris, with the owner of a local construction company, Paul Parker, reporting that dozens of homes were being rebuilt, though he also stated the workload was overwhelming and was concerned about the storms forecasted for the next week." (47 words)
  • Two sentences now GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The Salvation Army arrived in Yazoo City, serving 4,500 hot meals for residents impacted by the tornado, providing meals in mobile feeding units alongside the American Red Cross and at the front entrance of Ribeye's Steakhouse, with the organization distributing 200 blue tarps to several homes in Yazoo and Holmes counties." (51 words)
  • Cut down into two sentences GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The Delta unit of AmeriCorps' National Civilian Community Corps were dispatched to Yazoo City to aid in the relief efforts, with the regional director surveying and assessing the damage in the city, with preparation for the mission beginning at the organization's campus in Vicksburg." (44 words)
  • Cut down into two sentences GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "God's Pit Crew, a Virginia disaster response group, launched a mass distribution of goods to victims in Yazoo and several other counties affected by the tornado, distributing 300,000 lb (140,000 kg) of essentials, including water, tarps, and imperishable foods, over the span of five days, with other distribution centers established in addition." (52 words)
  • Split down into two GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The local volunteer group Operation Ukraine and other volunteers traveled to Yazoo City, with a truck loaded with supplies and essentials, including six pallets of bottled water and first-aid supplies, being driven to the Broadway Church of Christ, which served as the official distribution site for the disaster area." (49 words)
  • Split into two sentences GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "An ACE Hardware store in Yazoo City remained operational to assist customers, with first responders and customers receiving tarp, generators, batteries, chain saws, and duct tape, leading to a significant depletion in stock for the store, though the store manager stated that trucks from Mobile were bringing fresh supplies to the store." (52 words)
  • Split into two sentences GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The State Director for Mississippi's Rural Development visited Yazoo City an hour after the tornado tore through, joined by the Mayor of Yazoo City, MacArthur Straughter, with the Director assembling full-court press and using resources at USDA Rural Development to aid the damaged areas and the affected residents, with staff members from USDA's Multi-Family Housing Program coordinating a rapid response to open up vacant units for affected families." (68 words)
  • Split into two sentences GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The addition of the stricter guidelines occurred after FEMA confronted counties that did not have the National Flood Insurance Program policies in their laws, said counties were applied to Special Flood Hazard Areas, areas designated by FEMA to be in a high-risk for flooding inundations by 100-year flooding events or ones that have a chance of occurring every given year. " (60 words)
  • Split into two sentences GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The emergency management director for Choctaw County stated that the locals have become fearful of severe weather after the tornado and that 15 families were staying in FEMA trailer homes set up at a recreational vehicle park in the county, with many others moving into FEMA cottage homes." (48 words)
  • Split into two sentences GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The tornado and the search and rescue efforts conducted by storm chasers immediately after were shown in the documentary television series Storm Chasers, in the season 4 episode "Why We Chase", where storm chaser and meteorologist Reed Timmer, and his chase partners, Joel Taylor and Chris Chittick, were documenting the tornado when it entered town." (55 words)
  • Split into two sentences GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

  Reduced to 23 words and 25 words GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:17, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

Down to 23 words GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:11, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

The wordcounter website might be helpful so you can see where the article has long sentences. I only pointed out sentences longer than 40 words, and while there isn't a set sentence word limit, there is a policy to be concise, and Oxford suggests to keep sentences under 25 words. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:13, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink I fixed the run-on sentences problem you point out. But for some of them, like the vegetation discontinuities, I struggled with trying to get them below 40 words. As for most of them, I don't know how to get them below 25 words without removing some important information from them. Hopefully this resolves everything. GrenadinesDes (talk) 23:45, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

Then you might need to get a copyeditor to help with shortening sentences, if you’re struggling to get the sentences down to ~25 words. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 00:06, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink There might be an issue with using Oxford Dictionary for this. You yourself said there's no set in stone rule on wikipedia on how concise a sentence has to be. So it's a bit problematic to use oxford as the basis since Wikipedia doesn't really care what Oxford says. GrenadinesDes (talk) 02:32, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

I was referring to Oxford for what an authority describes as a suggest upper limit to sentence lengths. That was one of the issues I had with the article before I went through everything again. I only pointed out sentences over 40 words, but if you use a website like this that analyzes the prose, you'll see a lot of sentences are still on the long side. If you are satisfied with how it is, then I can re-read the whole article, but I wanted to make sure you were done addressing the sentence length issue first. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:21, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink I made further fixes throughout the article and currently finished now. Some sentences are slightly over 25 words, but that shouldn't be too problematic. GrenadinesDes (talk) 17:42, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

@GrenadinesDes give me a few days for the re-review. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:53, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink Hopefully I'm not a bother, but I'm wondering if you're done with the re-review GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:15, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Going through again.

Infobox

• "The tornado taken on approach to Yazoo City" - the grammar is awkward in the caption.
  • Removed "taken" GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)
• "NEXRAD radar imagery of the tornado near peak intensity, with a debris ball evident on reflectivity and intense velocity couplet." - it's not clear that the NEXRAD is two images (I believe)
  • It's one image, but with two panels, so I could see why it could be mistaken for two images GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)
    • Can you make that clearer? Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 00:09, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

      Sure GrenadinesDes (talk) 11:10, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

• The dissipation time is mentioned in the infobox but not the tornado summary
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Lead

• The first note should specify that all times are in CDT unless otherwise specified.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)
• The Enhanced Fujita scale should be mentioned sooner than the second paragraph
  • Moved the paragraph GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)
• "The tornado's track became the fourth-longest in Mississippi history." - this is mentioned twice in the lead, but never in the body of the article. It's also implied it's still the fourth-longest, is that the case?
  • Moved the second mention of the feat, and in Mississippi terms, officially, nothing has surpassed the tornado ever since. Per (https://weather.com/news/weather/news/2025-04-23-on-todays-date-yazoo-city-mississippi-tornado-long-track-2010)
• "The intense supercell produced the tornado" - this makes it sound like you mentioned "supercell" by having "The", rather than "An"
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)
• "Throughout the path, several tornado emergencies were issued for multiple counties." - is there an exact number? And who issued these?
  • Made the clarifications GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)
• "ninth deadliest" - needs a dash. So does "fourth longest"
  • Added the dashes GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Meteorological setup

• "On April 20, the American severe weather forecasting agency, Storm Prediction Center (SPC), first highlighted a severe weather risk for the lower Mississippi River basin region for April 24." - can you avoid saying "severe weather" twice in the same sentence?
  • Removed the first "severe GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)
• "A favorable kinematic and thermodynamic environment was near or ahead of an advancing front. " - you link both of these terms and use them only once without explaining them. That's too jargon heavy. Also, it sounds like the severe weather was related to the front, so that should be in the first sentence IMO
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)
    • Check again. This part is worse than before. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 00:09, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

      How so? It looks fine to me, its not even that long too, 25 words GrenadinesDes (talk) 11:16, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

• "As large hail and damaging winds were expected, a boundary layer, an area of moist air moving into an area, and strong wind shear indicated potential tornadic activities." - this sentence is complicated and messy. I suggest starting with "The SPC indicated potential tornadic activities..." but even then I don't know how to end the sentence. This is a key element of the setup, and I think you need to reword it.
  • Rewritten GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)
• "Within the area south of the Ohio Valley, a moist and destabilizing airmass with a strong wind field was spreading across the region, suggesting severe weather potential." - parts of this seem redundant from earlier. You mentioned the moist air earlier, and the severe weather threat.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)
• "A cold front moved easterly from the central southern Mississippi River Valley into the Ohio River Valley, ahead of the front was a warm and moist environment." - again, wasn't this covered?
  • Only the half after "Ohio River Valley". I removed that portion. GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)
• "Storm relative helicity of 300-600 joules per kilogram (J/kg) and mid-level convective available potential energy of 1500—2500 j/kg were also noted." - this also has no explanation
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)
    • But the sentence is long and unwieldy now. You can’t just add a brief explanation to a complicated term and assume that’s ok. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 00:09, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

      I split them up and added more explanation GrenadinesDes (talk) 11:13, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

• "The surface low tracked northward from Arkansas to St. Louis as it underwent significant deepening. " - sorry, was this low mentioned already?
  • Didn't notice that, I won't remove the mention of surface low here, but will reword it heavily. GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)
    • It still says “the surface low”. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 00:09, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

      removedd GrenadinesDes (talk) 11:10, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

      It still says “the surface low” like the low was mentioned before. What did you remove? My issue was that you said “the” surface low as if you mentioned it already. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 14:30, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

      I removed the second mention of surface low in "Particularly Dangerous Situation". Thanks for clarifying what the issue was. GrenadinesDes (talk) 17:34, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

• "Multiple discrete supercells began ahead of the developing quasi-linear convective system (QLCS)." - another term that's linked once, mentioned only one time later, and it's introduced as if it was mentioned before. It sounds important, but it's still jargon.
  • Added explanation GrenadinesDes (talk) 22:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

That's it up to "Tornado summary". ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:29, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Review by MCRPY22

(This is my first time doing one of these, not sure I got to everything)

Lead

• "The tornado caused 10 fatalities and 146 injuries during its 152.66 miles (245.68 km) path, which was one of the longest tornado paths on record." Maybe just personal preference, but I feel that the path length should be in the third paragraph with the other, similar stats (how it was the widest in MS history up to that point, first violent april tornado in the state since 1992 etc). Regardless of where it goes, I feel it would be helpful to know where it ranks, "one of the longest" is pretty non-specific.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 16:42, 22 September 2026 (UTC)
• "...before further surveying concluded with one unified track" -> "before further surveying concluded that it was one unified track"
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 16:42, 22 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Governor of Louisiana and Mississippi, Bobby Jindal and Haley Barbour, declared state of emergencies for the parish and counties affected by the tornado" -> "The governors of Louisiana and Mississippi, Bobby Jindal and Haley Barbour, declared states of emergencies for the parish and counties affected by the tornado in their respective states." That may be a little wordy, but I do feel that the current wording could be confusing.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• "In the relief effort, help from state officials, several organizations, local businesses, and non-profit groups, including The Salvation Army, arrived in affected areas." How are the "several organizations" different from the ones listed? What category do they fall under?
  • I don't really see whats the issue with this GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The recovery and clean up effort removed tons of debris throughout the tornado's path." Is there a more definite number here on the amount of debris removed? Is there at least a general ballpark number like thousands of tons or tens of thousands of tons?
  • Clarified GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Afterwards, several businesses and homes were repaired or rebuilt, including a chemical plant and a Baptist church in Yazoo City that were completely destroyed." Are these two structures particularly noteworthy?
  • Those are examples of businesses getting rebuilt, but sure ill remove GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

Meteorological Setup

• "A large, upper-level trough" remove the comma
  • Removed GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• Do you have a source for the definition of a hatched risk? Feels like there should be one, but I'm not an expert on this.
  • Its in the source that accompanies the first mention of hatched risk GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Additionally, a rapidly moving squall line was moving across northern Arkansas, forecasted to evolve into a strong QLCS with intense, damaging winds." I'm not sure that squall line should be linked since it's the same as a QLCS, which was already linked earlier in the article.
  • Removed linking GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

Tornado Summary

I feel that much of this section in general has a common issue, that being how granular the discussion of the tornado's strength is. The sources generally do not say that the tornado strengthened or weakened at the points indicated, they just show the highest winds that could be assigned to the damage for those points. For example, in the second paragraph of the Yazoo County section, it states that the tornado entered Yazoo City as a high-end EF2, and then that the tornado weakened slightly to an EF1, and then strengthened again to a high-end EF2. Looking at the damage map, this is all over less than a mile and there's no source listed for it at all. I can list a lot of other examples, but they all essentially have the same problem. Obviously the tornado did strengthen and weaken along the track but there should be a source explicitly stating when and where.

• This has been brought up before as an issue during the previous FA discussion, so Ill just remove/reword the intensity claims. The damage claims will stay though like "The tornado made a sharp northward turn, inflicting low-end EF2 damage south of Cypress Lake, snapping numerous trees." Since those specific trees were rated low-end EF2. GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

Since this has been addressed I'll go through the rest of the section now.

• Don't know if it's just on my end, but the archived ARCGis site does not work properly.
  • I'd have to check when I get back home from school, because the school bans the internet Archive on the school laptop. GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• It's gonna be a pain, but you should really link to the individual damage points, or at least the event itself, I believe this can be done with the site now.
  • I mean, technically, every damage point is linked to the DAT website. If I'm interpreting what you're saying incorrectly, correct me. GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

  What I mean is getting links to each individual damage point that you reference. I'm not certain if that's possible though.

  You should at least use a link to the tornado path though like this MCRPY22 (talk) 18:54, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

• "The tornado traveled northeast through rural areas, carving more cycloidal marks onto fields and snapping trees and power poles along US 80." cycloidal marks have not been mentioned before, so "more" should not be here.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Maintaining the intensity, the tornado crossed Parker Road, causing intense ground scarring." -> "Maintaining this intensity" or "maintaining its intensity"
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• "A couple of framed homes sustained moderate roof damage, and a double-wide mobile home was leveled. The tornado then snapped an electrical transmission tower, receiving a low-end EF3 damage rating. A mobile home was destroyed, several homes experienced complete loss of their exterior walls, a home was completely unroofed, and several trees were snapped or uprooted." Are the homes in the third sentence the same as the homes in the first sentence? Where are the homes in the third sentence?
  • Made a clarification GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The tornado later crossed the Mississippi River into Mississippi." How much later? If it's right after the PDS warning was issued it should say something like "The tornado crossed the Mississippi River into Mississippi shortly thereafter."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The tornado then crossed Satartia Road, inflicting significant roof damage to a home, and a utility building nearby was demolished." -> The tornado then crossed Satartia Road, inflicting significant roof damage to a home, and demolishing a utility building nearby."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The tornado crossed Center Ridge Road, Multiple trees were snapped, a one-story brick home was mostly unroofed, and two other homes sustained severe roof damage." Either that comma should be a period, or the "m" in multiple should be lowercase.
  • Lowercased the "m" GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Two metal building systems were completely leveled, receiving mid-range EF3 damage ratings" Acceptable if there isn't, but is there any more specifics on what the building systems were? Arenas? Warehouses?
  • I tried to look up what they were, but I couldn't find the specifics sadly GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The Hillcrest Baptist Church was completely destroyed, with the steel I-beams bent, receiving an EF4 rating, with windspeeds estimated at 170 mph (270 km/h)." Link the article on I-beams. Also I'd split the sentence into two, like "The Hillcrest Baptist Church was completely destroyed, with the church's steel I-beams bent. Damage at the church received an EF4 rating, with wind speeds estimated at 170 mph (270 km/h)."
  • Linked and reworded GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Nearby, a 5,000 lb (2,300 kg) concrete reinforced awning block torn out of the ground and thrown 100 yd (90 m) away" -> "was torn out of the ground"
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• "For the rest of the tornado's track in Yazoo County; several framed and mobile homes were significantly damaged or demolished, and numerous trees damage were snapped or uprooted." The semi-colon should be a comma.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• "A well-built home was mostly demolished, leaving a few interior walls standing, receiving the aforementioned rating." -> "with a few interior walls left standing"

• • Replaced GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

• "The tornado became the longest tracked tornado during the doppler radar era before being exceeded by the Western Kentucky tornado in 2021." should define what the doppler radar era is, when it began that is.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Later in the evening of April 26, the track of the tornado further extended to 149 miles (240 km), concluding it was one continuous path" "the track of the tornado was further extended to 149 miles (240 km), with surveyors concluding it was one continuous path."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

@MCRPY22 yeah DAT on IA just doesn't load properly, so I removed the archival link GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:14, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

MCRPY22 (talk) 23:57, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

@MCRPY22 all fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:31, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Case Studies

• The first study feels like it should go under impact, since it deals with estimates of forest damaged by the tornado.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• In the second study section, the text does not make it clear how the study is related to the tornado. If the study simulated the Yazoo City tornado specifically the text should say so.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The vegetation discontinuities, the abrupt change from plant coverage to a boundary of reduced coverage, and latent heat fluxes has been linked to increase convective activities along surface discontinuities." It's not clear to me what this means. Are vegetation discontinuities and "the abrupt change from plant coverage to a boundary of reduced coverage" the same thing? How is latent heat flux related?
  • "Are vegetation discontinuities and "the abrupt change from plant coverage to a boundary of reduced coverage" the same thing?" Yes, its describing what vegetation discontinuities are. "How is latent heat flux related?" in the study linked, its shown as one of the reasons there's enhance convective activities. GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

  I figured out what it's saying now, the "has" should be "have" I got a little confused there sorry. MCRPY22 (talk) 02:44, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

Impacts

• Might be personal preference, but I'd call the section "Impact" without the s at the end
  • It sounds odd, but the tornado caused multiple sorts of impacts in terms of economic and human losses, power outages, etc.
• "Ten people were killed by the tornado in the state, with 130 people injured in across several counties." -> "Ten people were killed by the tornado in the state, with 130 people injured in the state across [number of counties where people were injured] counties."
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• "In Madison Parish, 10—15 homes were destroyed and an industrial plant was heavily damaged" If there's not that's fine, but is there a more specific number for homes available?
  • Wow lucky me, I manage to find a source that specify, didn't expect there to be one. GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Chaney stated that 90% of homes in Yazoo County were insured, but another 90% in Holmes County were uninsured." Remove "another"
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

Aftermath

• "Rescuers initially struggled to enter Yazoo County due to geographical challenges. The county was located on a hilly terrain that ran along this section of the Mississippi Delta." How did the hilly terrain cause these problems? Were the usual roads blocked?
  • Clarified GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• "11 ambulances were provided to the city, with four people being transported by those ambulance to different hospitals" pluralize "ambulance"
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• "80 Mississippi National Guard soldiers were dispatched, an additional 40 Highway Patrol officers were deployed across affected areas, with other law enforcement officers assisting" -> 80 Mississippi National Guard soldiers were dispatched, and an additional 40 Highway Patrol officers were deployed across affected areas, with other law enforcement officers assisting.
  • Added the "and" GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• "Building supplies store, New Home Building Stores in Columbus, assisted Operation Ukraine by purchasing roofing plastic and supplies to cover roofs of damaged homes" should be "A building supplies store"
  • Added "a" GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

Recovery

• "MEMA offered housing to the victims who lost their homes, using cottages originally built for the victims of Hurricane Katrina." What is MEMA? This is the first time it's mentioned.
  • Added the full words for MEMA GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

• "The State Director for Mississippi's Rural Development visited Yazoo City an hour after the tornado tore through. Joined by the Mayor of Yazoo City, MacArthur Straughter, with the Director assembling full-court press and using resources at USDA Rural Development to aid the damaged areas and the affected residents" It's not clear to me what the second sentence is trying to convey. Did they announce they'd use those resources during the visit? Did they bring the resources with them for the visit?
  • The latter. GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The staff members from USDA's Multi-Family Housing Program coordinating a rapid response to open up vacant units for affected families" should be "coordinated" here
  • Past tensed GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• "At Eagle Lake, residents planning to rebuild their homes were now required to be on stilts that were 18 in (46 cm) off the ground." -> "At Eagle Lake, residents planning to rebuild their homes were now required to put their homes on stilts that were 18 inches (46 centimetres) off the ground." It should be specified that the homes were what needed to be on stilts, it could be read that the residents needed to be on stilts currently (I don't imagine anyone reading it that way but someone could). The first uses of units should have them spelled out, and this is the first (and only) use of inches and centimeters.
  • Sure 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• "A year after the tornado, 90% of the damaged homes in Yazoo City was repaired and rebuilt" should be were rebuilt
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• "The event also highlighting the Self-Help Housing program, which assisted in people and families to acquire homes by building it themselves" What event? Was National Homeownership Month the event? Was the rebuilding effort the event?
  • "What event? Was National Homeownership Month the event?" Yes, the previous sentence to the one you plucked out implies it. "Was the rebuilding effort the event?" No, it was apart of the event. GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• The "Depiction in Media" section from the Recovery section could probably be rewritten a little and moved into Aftermath, since it's very short and deals with the very immediate aftermath of the tornado.
  • Sure GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:18, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

MCRPY22 (talk) 02:55, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

@MCRPY22 GrenadinesDes (talk) 00:20, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

It's good work, but I did find some more issues.

• "Storm relative helicity of 300-600 joules per kilogram (j/kg) and mid-level convective available potential energy of 1500—2500 j/kg were also noted" Gotta capitalize the J when you abbreviate joule, J/kg and such.
• "A portion of every tornado recorded has TKE exceeding 62.1 gigajoule, with a quarter exceeding 383.2 gigajoule" should pluralize that, and unlink gigajoule since joule was linked earlier.
• "Mesoscale boundaries was also being considered as a factor to the intensification and/or sustainment of tornadic supercells" should start "Mesoscale boundaries were"
• "The real-data simulations was used to understand" either change to "simulation" or change was to were.
• "A year after the tornado, 90% of the damaged homes in Yazoo City was repaired and were rebuilt" this should probably be "were repaired or rebuilt"
• "The insurance company State Farm reported that they've received over 360 claims on auto and home damage in Mississippi after the tornado" change "they've" to just "they"

MCRPY22 (talk) 03:04, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

@MCRPY22 all fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 14:13, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

@MCRPY22 ? GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:52, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Sorry about that, good work. Gonna hold off on any more comments until you've made those changes to the tornado summary section that have been discussed. MCRPY22 (talk) 14:59, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

@MCRPY22 The intensity problems has been resolved GrenadinesDes (talk) 15:31, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

GiftedIceCream

• On April 20, the U.S. weather forecasting agency, Storm Prediction Center (SPC) The SPC is not the US weather forecasting agency, it only forecasts t-storms and wildfires.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:47, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
• While large hail and damaging winds was expected, a boundary layer, an area of moist air moving into an area, and strong wind shear indicated potential tornadic activities. While?
  • A bit vague on what the issue here is, but I'll replace while GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:47, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
• The risk was accompanied by a 30% hatched risk, an enhanced probability for strong (EF2+) tornadoes, severe hail, and strong damaging winds for the area. This sounds like a hatched risk and an enhanced risk for EF2+s instead of defining a hatched risk.
  • It is defining what a hatched risk is, but I guess I could clarify GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:47, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
• A potent wind profile was expected to spread across the moist, warm sector, which is a region of warm air ahead of the cold front.[9] Wind profile should be defined.
  • Changed GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:47, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
• which plot winds from soundings from Earth's atmosphere→which plot winds with soundings from Earth's atmosphere
  • fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:47, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
• At 9:31 a.m. CDT, upper air analysis showcased the upstream trough negatively tilting, negatively tilting?
  • Again being a bit vague on what's the issue, I assume it because its using present tense wording. GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:47, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
• SPC noted that tornadic supercells were already in progress across Mississippi, with strong wind shear profiles expected to spread north and east. →The SPC noted that tornadic supercells were already in progress across Mississippi, with strong wind shear profiles expected to spread north and east.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:47, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
• Opening the table results in MOS:SANDWICH violation
  • I added a clear template at the bottom of the warning history section, is that satisfactory? GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:50, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Let me finish later. GiftedIceCream 19:57, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Tornado summary

• The tornado traveled northeast through rural areas, carving more cycloidal marks onto fields and snapping trees and power poles along US 80. You should remove the "more".
  • Removed GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:50, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• The tornado crossed Willow Bayou Road at EF3 strength EF3 is already mentioned.
  • Rewritten GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:50, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• Approximately 14 employees were working at the time the tornado struck, All survived, though three received minor injuries.[15][17] Approximatly dosen't make sense because there isn't a fraction of a worker, also change the comma to a period.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:50, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• The tornado continued inflicting damage to trees, snapping multiple of them along the Yazoo River you could cut the first part.
  • Split and rewritten GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:50, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• Around the same time, the tornado showed an intense presentation on radar and storm spotters reported a large, wedge tornado was on the ground split.
  • Split GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:50, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• The tornado crossed Center Ridge Road, Multiple trees were snapped, a one-story brick home was mostly unroofed, and two other homes sustained severe roof damage-> The tornado crossed Center Ridge Road, multiple trees were snapped, a one-story brick home was mostly unroofed, and two other homes sustained severe roof damage
  • Done GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:50, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• and an outbuilding, a separate building from a main home, experienced major roof damage. move definitation to firsr usage of outbuilding.
  • Moved GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:50, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• Nearby, a 5,000 lb (2,300 kg) concrete reinforced awning block torn out of the ground and thrown 100 yd (90 m) away. missing a word.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:50, 30 September 2026 (UTC)
• The tornado crossed into Holmes County.[2][27] Change to leaving Yazoo County.
  • Fixed GrenadinesDes (talk) 13:50, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Portugal

Nominator(s): GumballNine1Nine (talk) 09:27, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

Portugal is a country in Southwestern Europe. Mainland Portugal is located on the southwestern portion of the Iberian Peninsula, and bordered by Spain to the north and east. Portugal also includes the archipelagos of Madeira and the Azores in the Atlantic Ocean. The country has a population of 11.4 million, and Lisbon, its capital, is the largest city. Portugal's internal waters and territorial sea together account for two-fifths of its territory, and its exclusive economic zone is one of Europe's largest, while its terrain contains a diverse range of landscapes and regional climates. I'm renominating this article. During the last nomination it passed media, prose, MOS compliance, and cite/source formatting. Thanks to everyone involved in this article, including all the past reviewers GumballNine1Nine (talk) 09:27, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

@FAC coordinators: Does this re-nomination still need to be approved all over again on media, prose, MOS compliance, and cite/source formatting, or is it enough to just pass the source review since the others were already approved during the last nomination? Thanks in advance. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:46, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Featured article candidates need to demonstrate adherence to the featured article criteria within the constraints of the current nomination. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 13:25, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

@David Fuchs: When you stated within the constraints of the current nomination, do you mean that the prior passes are still valid here since this is a re-nomination (and therefore only the source review needs to be passed), or do I still have to go through the same process as I'd normally have to for a nomination? GumballNine1Nine (talk) 13:35, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Each nomination is discrete. To be successfully promoted, you need the requisite support entirely within this go-around. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 13:50, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Gotcha, thanks for the prompt response. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 14:05, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Jens

Section Biodiversity

• The Portuguese west coast is part of the four major Eastern Boundary Upwelling Systems of the ocean. – This sentence is too technical for the lay person, especially without context (what is the Eastern Boundary Upwelling System?), and, at the same time, uselessly general for the expert (the Eastern Boundary Upwelling System is a global one; why not narrow down the specific system it is part of, as your source does?). This isn't adding any helpful information about Portugal other than "upwelling occurs at the coast", so why not simply stating just that? This simple statement could be combined with a statement of the significance of the upwelling for the country, and we would have a much more useful sentence.

The sentence now reads: "Upwelling occurs at the coast creating the Nortada". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 18:32, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Nice; I would add an explanation of "Nortada" (just add ", a summer wind along the coast" or something). --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:47, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

It now reads: 'Upwelling occurs at the coast creating the Nortada, a summer wind along the coast" GumballNine1Nine (talk) 22:39, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• Portugal and Spain together have a high proportion of endemism among freshwater fish, with 73% of the freshwater fish species being endemic. – Is quite repetitive. Maybe "73% of the freshwater fish species in Portugal and Spain are endemic, a higher percentage than elsewhere in Europe." This is also more specific (as "high proportion" without any comparison is not a very helpful information).

Done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 18:15, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• which preserves one of the few thriving Mediterranean mountain landscapes – placed in the "Biodiversity" section, I thought it means that this is an intact ecosystem (though "thriving" is very vague). The source, however, seems to be about economy, so that's a very different claim. The sentence is quite misleading.

The text now reads: "and Montesinho Natural Park, which preserves one of the few intact Mediterranean mountain landscapes". The source is not about the economy, as the abstract makes clear: The traditional and multifunctional landscapes of Montesinho Natural Park (PNM), with their typical complexes of agro-, silvo- and pastoral components, changed thoroughly during past decades. Historical, social, economic and cultural factors, such as poor communications, biophysical events, and direct contact with nature in everyday life should be taken into account to explain its present land use pattern. The book itself is titled Natural Heritage from East to West and "aims to address specific natural heritage sites" in Europe from west to east. I see this as a book focused on natural heritage sites (which will inevitably include some economic aspects related to those sites), but I don’t think anyone would associate this source with economy. (In fact, there is no economy-related term listed under the keywords.) GumballNine1Nine (talk) 18:10, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Your quote seems to be about human society and land-use pattern, not about intact ecosystems. Where precisely does the source say that it preserves one of the few intact mountain ecosystems? If "human societies" rather than "ecosystems" is meant here, then, as said, the sentence does not belong under "biodiversity". --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:47, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

pp. 152-153 "In contrast with many other Mediterranean mountain situations, the modern PNM landscapes are still living; their complex farming systems simultaneously support a multitude of functions other than agricultural production, such as support for recreation, amenity, cultural identity, and preservation of natural resources and environmental quality. The modern landscapes still include the mosaic of meadows, forests, rivers and high mountain vegetation growing on varied geological materials and soils and the predominant natural vegetation consists of oak forest species, broom scrubland and heath. Many fields once used to grow cereals (for bread), pulses, turnip and potatoes now provide grazing for cattle. Agriculture plays only a minor role and new economic activities, such as rural tourism, are increasingly important (IPB/ICN, 2006). The current and general process of abandonment seems to favour natural ecosystems, promoting the development of habitats of pristine character such as the oak, riparian and chestnuts woods. Field cultivation is not expanding, and planting exotic forest species is not acceptable under current nature conservation regulations. On the other hand burning and grazing are essential process to maintain semi-natural habitats such as scrublands of heather and gorse, as well as the meadows. However burning and grazing must be done in the traditional way, at the right frequency, extension and intensity. If not, they will favour erosion, degradation processes and consequent soil loss. Illegal sand and gravel extraction in rivers and localized foci of water pollution are not frequent but their occurrence prejudices riparian ecosystems." GumballNine1Nine (talk) 23:06, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• Geographical and climatic conditions facilitate the introduction of exotic species that later turn out to be invasive to the native habitats. Over one-fourth of extant plant species in continental Portugal are exotic. – The source has a page range of 583–624. This is quite difficult to verify. Can we have more precise page numbers please (this seems to be a problem elsewhere in the article too)? If you could provide quotes that support the statement, it would also be much appreciated and saves me some work (just want to check to access source-text integrity).

That page range was chosen because the source supports both sentences, because this is the subject of the article, and because of the reason stated below: p. 604 "A total of 3,915 species (native and exotic) are listed in the flora of Portugal. Among the species indicated as native to mainland Portugal, 2,875 species (73%) are listed. The remaining 1,040 species (27%) include all the species introduced in mainland Portugal, as well as the native and exotic components of the islands" pp. 620-621: "Portugal is located in southern Europe and has an area of 92,092 km². It is one of the smallest countries in Europe in terms of size. Its historical and geographical characteristics reflect the region’s suitability for invasion processes by exotic plants. The country is situated in a transition zone between the Atlantic domain, with its specific climate and vegetation — temperate forests covering the plateaus in northern Portugal — and the large area under Mediterranean climatic influence and plant formations. With a population of 10.5 million inhabitants and a population density of 115 inhabitants/km², the country is prone to invasion processes by exotic plants due to historical and geographical factors, such as its location (coastal region), natural and anthropogenic migration routes that open opportunities for colonisation, as well as its long history of land use and occupation, which has diversified the landscape (through reforestation) and turned it into a heterogeneous mosaic. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 17:43, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Thanks. Then, I have three suggestions here. First, cite pp. 604, 620–621, as this makes it much easier to verify the information. Second, you have an inaccuracy as the source is just about plants, but you claim "the introduction of exotic species" in general, which is not supported by the source. Third, I would be more concise and write "Geographical and climatic conditions facilitate the spread of invasive [plant] species.", much shorter and I don't think you lose any information.

Done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 03:27, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

• Portugal has one of the highest numbers of threatened animal and plant species in Europe. – I would call WP:OR on this. The source is a sortable table where Portugal is at rank 5 amongst European countries. However, this data is not trivial to interpret, and it is not clear that it is even suitable to derive at such a simple claim (it certainly depends a lot on area size and the presence of islands). And if no source is making this point, I have further doubts.

I don't think this constitutes WP:OR. The table falls under WP:ORMEDIA, as "Table 5: number of threatened species in each major taxonomic group by country in Europe" is sortable and includes a "Total" column. This allows for a straightforward reading of the data. (I was unable to link directly to that specific table.) GumballNine1Nine (talk) 17:13, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Hmm. Ok then, I guess. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:47, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• The country as a whole is an important stopover for migratory bird species.[208][209][210] – A simple statement, but why does it need three references, two of which cite multiple pages? The only precise page number is given for [209], which cites p. 14, but here I do not see how it supports the sentence, as it does not mention migratory birds.

That souce states on p. 14: "In the case of the Iberian Peninsula, and notwithstanding the high importance of the region as a wintering ground for a vast array of European species" Since this is a general sentence and does not specifically mention Portugal, I thought it would be better to provide the other two studies that discuss this more directly. Source 209 states: "The Tagus estuary (38°45ʹN, 09°01ʹW) is the second most important area for shorebirds in the Iberian Peninsula" and "...spring migrant dunlins Calidris alpina stopping over at Tagus estuary, a Portuguese wetland recognised as an internationally important wintering area for this shorebird species" and the other source states "Portuguese wetlands act as key wintering and stop-over sites for many waders due to their strategic location in the East Atlantic Flyway" All of them support the sentence. As for the page range (an issue first raised by @Joko2468:) Template:Page range too broad states that "...the standard citation method for academic journal articles is to list the full page range for the whole article". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 16:54, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

But that standard citation method is for the "cite journal" templates (your "Sources" section). I was asking to add precise page numbers to the efn-templates (the only purpose of these is to provide page numbers, so no reason to cite the full paper range here and then again in the cite journal templates). Regarding the content, I see that the quote "Portuguese wetlands act as key wintering and stop-over sites for many waders due to their strategic location in the East Atlantic Flyway" covers it quite well, and I would only cite this one (the other sources do not directly cover the point). I would furthermore add an explanation of why Portugal is important for migrating birds (reason given by that same quote), by linking to the article East Atlantic Flyway; this would make the information more helpful. A minor point: I do not see where your "The country as a whole" is coming from; only southern Portugal seems to be an important wintering ground, so maybe just remove "as a whole". --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:47, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

The sentence reads: "Portugal is an important stopover for migratory birds, as its wetlands serve as key wintering and stopover sites for many waders due to their location on the East Atlantic Flyway." I’ve placed “as a whole” because of that source on p. 14, which states: "In the case of the Iberian Peninsula, and notwithstanding the high importance of the region as a wintering ground for a vast array of European species" thereby including the whole country. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 03:57, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

• The mammalian species of Portugal such as red deer, Iberian ibex, wild boar, red fox, Iberian wolf, and Iberian lynx were once widespread throughout the country – As formulated, this is incorrect. "The mammalian species" is about mammalian species as a whole, but there are certainly many that are still very widespread. And the list seems wrong too. I did not look at the source here, but listing the red fox as not being widespread anymore can't possibly be true (it is commonly observed in the city centre of Lisbon, for example).

The sentence now reads: "Some mammalian taxa of Portugal" The map on 73 shows that the species is widespread throughout the country; however, only 68.1% of the records are confirmed. As the source states on page 227, a filled grid cell means that the species was detected at least once, between 1990 and 2018, at some point within the grid cell. These data do not reflect the internal heterogeneity in the abundance, density or status of the populations, nor the possible fragmentation of the distribution at scales more detailed than 10×10 km². The diagram on 226 indicates that the area of occupation for the species was previously lower than it is now, and 227 notes that the red fox is among the species that have increased more visibly. The species was once widespread but had declined in numbers (it remains legally huntable in Portugal, as noted on 72); some species are now rebounding, and this appears to be the case for the red fox, which is again widespread. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 15:58, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

But where does it say that The species was once widespread but had declined in numbers? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:47, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

per p. 72: ""Although it is probably the carnivore with the most widespread and continuous distribution in our country, it remains important to implement monitoring studies that allow the early detection of changes in its distribution, abundance or conservation status. This is of particular importance since this species is legally hunted in Portugal and may therefore present population fluctuations as a result of its hunting exploitation." and The red fox is a very common species in Portugal, with a ubiquitous distribution across the mainland, on p. 227 "Among the species whose recorded area of occupancy increased most visibly in this second edition (Figures 12 and 13) are game species such as the red fox (Vulpes vulpes)" and also on p. 225 It should be noted that the calculation of the extent of occurrence took into account all records of natural presence of each species, including those that do not necessarily represent resident populations, but which are important for assessing their dispersal capacity. It can thus be observed that, for the majority of species, the extent of occurrence had already been essentially captured in the first edition of this atlas, with the second edition contributing substantially to filling gaps in the knowledge of their distribution and species richness (Figures 12 and 13) This means that the lighter row indicating a bigger area on Table 12 represents the area that had records of natural presence of this species, which corresponds to a larger area than in the 1st edition, indicating that there was indeed a decline. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 03:17, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

• Others species, such as the Portuguese ibex – this is not a species but a subspecies. The Iberian wolf, listed in the previous sentence, is also a subspecies and not a species as indicated. And "Others species" seems to be a typo, should be "Other species" (and the source says it's exactly three mammalian taxa that are extinct, so why not say "three" instead of the vague "others")?

The sentence now reads: There are three mammalian taxa, such as the Portuguese ibex... GumballNine1Nine (talk) 16:03, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

"Taxa" needs a wikilink at least. Alternatively, you could write "species and subspecies", which might be more accessible and precise. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:47, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

the text now reads: "There are three mammalian species and subspecies, such as the Portuguese ibex..." GumballNine1Nine (talk) 23:19, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• but some mammalian species, such as the red deer, have been re-expanding their native range – the source again has a long page range that can certainly be more specific. I see diagrams on page 226 that indeed show that some mammals have expanded their range, but the red deer (Cervus elaphus) seems to only show a very subtle increase, so I wonder why this particular species is singled out and not others that have shown a much stronger increase.

I’ve replaced the red deer with the red fox since that was the species that increased the most according to the diagram on page 226. The former page range (215–230) was chosen because it included a discussion on the range of mammalian species in Portugal, and since the sentence stated that mammalian species have increased their range, it made sense to include those pages. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 14:55, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

According to that diagram, the Iberian hare shows a much more pronounced rebounding, and it is also a local species; so maybe this is an even better choice? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:47, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Done. The sentence now reads: "There are three mammalian species and subspecies, such as the Portuguese ibex that became extinct, but some mammalian species, such as the Iberian hare, have been re-expanding their native range" GumballNine1Nine (talk) 02:11, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

• Portugal is located on the Mediterranean basin – should be "in", not "on".

Done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 14:33, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• The above comments do only cover three paragraphs of the article that I had already reviewed in the last review. I fear that there are still source-text integrity issues left. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 14:15, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Thank you so much for doing this review, Jens. I must confess that I’m a layperson when it comes to biology, so I may make some mistakes with certain technicalities. I’ll look at your concerns right away. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 14:22, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

@Jens Lallensack: all done, thanks once again for the review GumballNine1Nine (talk) 18:33, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

@Jens Lallensack: All done. Hope I've successfully addressed all your points. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 03:59, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

RoySmith

• I probably won't do a full review, but I did a little bit of copyediting.

Thanks for the copyediting. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 18:41, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• I also noticed that while you have {{Use British English}}, you use some American spellings (colored, decriminalized).

Resolved those instances. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 18:41, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• I also don't plan on doing a full review, but I got a few more. I use User:Ohconfucius/script/EngvarB.js, which I find helps when I have to jump between US, Canadian, and Oxford depending on my article subject. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:05, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

  Your edit was a huge help. Thanks, Chris. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:25, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• Why do you use {{YEAR}}? I generally don't care about stuff like this, but I stumbled upon it when I made one of my copyedits (1974 overthrow). I'd never seen this before so I'm really just curious what value it adds.

Quite honestly, I don’t know either. I think it was already there when I started working on the article, and since someone went to the trouble of creating a whole template just for this, I thought it provided some utility and kept using it. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 18:41, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Tuesp1985

I'll add the minor changes I propose to the page: (in bold and images)

First Republic and Estado Novo

Main articles: First Portuguese Republic and Estado Novo (Portugal)

Salazar and Carmona (in the center) during the 28th May coup celebrations

In 1908, King Carlos I and Luís Filipe, Prince Royal, were assassinated by republican partisans. Two years later, the monarchy was overthrown by the 5 October 1910 coup and replaced with a republic. During World War I, Portugal fought for the Allies. The war increased political instability and deepened the economic crisis creating further chaos and unrest during the First Republic. These conditions led to the 28 May 1926 coup d'état, which overthrew the Republic and established and the Ditadura Militar [pt], later the Ditadura Nacional, which evolved into the authoritarian nationalist corporative dictatorship of the Estado Novo, under António de Oliveira Salazar.

During the Estado Novo, Portugal remained neutral in World War II, after which the postwar end of colonial legitimacy and the growth of African independence movements increasingly challenged Portuguese rule overseas. The regime introduced reforms intended to strengthen ties between the metropole and the colonies, yet the empire was no unified customs and economic area. Indigenous peoples already second-class citizens, saw limited improvements in living conditions further fuelled nationalist movements,ultimately leading to the Portuguese Colonial War from 1961 [pt] to 1974.

Return to democracy

Main articles: Carnation Revolution and Third Portuguese Republic

Armoured vehicles in Lisbon's Rossio Square, in 1975

In 1974, a military coup overthrew the Estado Novo regime, and started the Carnation Revolution. This initiated the transition to democracy and the dissolution of Portugal's colonial empire, from the independence of the African colonies to the Handover of Macau in 1999. This period was marked by social, military, and political turmoil that culminated in street politics and violence and led Portugal to near civil war. The Coup of 25 November 1975 cleared the way for the approval of a new constitution and the holding of elections, beginning to subside tensions. (Maybe add a reference to the returnees?)

After the revolution, in the late 1970s and throughout the 1980s, under the influence by new economic insights, Portugal began to dismantle the socialist policies of that period and move towards neoliberalism, through constitutional revisions and the adoption of reforms for entry into the European Economic Community (EEC), which occurred in 1986, leading to considerable economic growth. The 2010–2014 Portuguese financial crisis resulted in an international bailout and intense austerity policies. causing lasting social impacts.

• I've added "This led in the 1990s to considerable economic growth driven by credit-fuelled consumer spending and a sharp rise in private indebtedness. Together with the growth of the financial and non-tradable sectors, this contributed to macroeconomic imbalances and paved the way for economic stagnation after the 2000s. It ultimately led to the 2010–2014 Portuguese financial crisis ... " as it connects that economic growth with the 2010–2014 Portuguese crisis and I think it gives a broader picture than simply stating that "through constitutional revisions and the adoption of reforms for entry into the European Economic Community (EEC), which occurred in 1986, leading to considerable economic growth" since that implies the growth was an unqualified good with no side effects, also as the source states, the growth was due in large part to the reforms made for EEC entry, but mostly to the reforms that followed afterwards. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 18:22, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Better, but I still think the closing part "(...)causing lasting impacts such as young adults' employment insecurity", seems a "bit lost in there" and abrupt. Either add a brief description of the gift or remove it entirely. What's your feedback? Also, what do you think about the image of the first republic and estado novo content? I believe it would improve the page. Cheers Tuesp1985 (talk) 00:25, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

As I always do, I'll address each point you've raised individually. After reading your source review, I'm at the moment adding just a few more sources to the article and at the same time rewriting the etymology section based on much more up to date material. (Finding updated material on the etymology was surprisingly a far more difficult task than I thought.) I'm doing those first so I don't interrupt my line of thinking, and to hopefully get a pass on the source review, then come back to address your other suggestions. I'll sure follow that suggestion, and as always I'll post the updated text here when I'm finished. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 04:47, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

No worries. Also, I made an overall review of the page text, (made some minor typo corrections) and I have further (sorry) suggestions and questions about some parts:

- On the intro, I would add a 1143 also, something like this "As a result of the Reconquista against them, Portugal was established as a county within the Kingdom of León in 868, recognized as an independent kingdom in 1143, and formally later, in 1179.";

As I've stated before, Portugal was not recognised as an independent kingdom in 1143, the wording you propose makes it sound as if a a Treaty of Paris was signed back then, also the modern notion of independence did not exist at the time (the Portuguese themselves even compared Japan's emperor with the pope on their arrival there.) After doing my research, I find these 'independence' dates largely arbitrary, with the exception of 1179. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 05:56, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Right, so, how about "As a result of the Reconquista against them, Portugal was established as a county within the Kingdom of León in 868, with the first step towards recognition as a kingdom in 1143 and then formally in 1179." Tuesp1985 (talk) 16:51, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

- In the Reconquista and independence content, a note with a link to the Persecution of Jews and Muslims by Manuel I of Portugal in 1496 could be useful;

- On the Age of Discovery content, the last phrase says "During the 15th century, Portugal established the transatlantic slave-trade circuits and, by the mid-19th century, had become one of the longest-active and a significant participant in the Atlantic slave trade", I propose adding a reference to the 1869 ban across the Empire;

- The final part of the Iberian Union and Restoration content seems confusing, "with partial recovery beginning from around the mid-20th century alongside the continuation of colonialism", not sure if this fits well with the rest of the content;

- In the second paragraph of the Constitutional monarchy content, the phrase "Although the 1822 Constitution was adopted, the process was marked by compromise and efforts at consensus, which allowed absolutist forces to regain strength, leading to Miguelist counter-revolts against liberalism, prompting Prince Miguel's exile.", you mean that the process was marred by divisions, despite efforts for compromise, right? Otherwise the fact that it lead to counter-revolts looks strange. At the last part of the content, I would add "after which Pedro's victory forced Miguel's abdication in favour of Maria and his exile causing absolutist ideology to wane.";

- On the health content, the last phrase "Stakeholders have raised concerns over the effectiveness of food safety policies", seems weird like that. Maybe something like this "Portugal's food safety complies with European Union standards, although some difficulties, from enforcement to stakeholder collaboration, linger.";

- The issue about the Aguçadoura Wave Farm, I posted bellow also.

Cheers Tuesp1985 (talk) 00:20, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

@GumballNine1Nine, in the first republic content, the phrase "During the Estado Novo, Portugal remained neutral in World War II, after which the postwar end of colonial legitimacy and the growth of the existing Great Depression rooted African independence movements increasingly challenged Portuguese rule overseas." in rather confusing. I believe you're referring to the measures taken by the dictatorship in the aftermath of the Great Depression which created the economic and social foundations that repressed the colonies and subsequently formed the independence movements. If so, I propose this phrasing: "During the Estado Novo, Portugal remained neutral in the Second World War, after which the end of colonial legitimacy in the post-war period and the growth of African independence movements, rooted in economic and social hardship, increasingly challenged Portuguese rule overseas." Tell me what you think. Cheers Tuesp1985 (talk) 23:31, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

I'm referring to the fact that African independence movements trace their origins to the Great Depression, specifically to how colonial administrations at the time handled the economic effects. That response triggered anti-colonial movements in Africa, which then grew over time because of the manner in which the colonial powers engaged with the colonies during and after WW2. (The book focuses more on the economic side of the story) GumballNine1Nine (talk) 01:25, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

The independence movements origin is not directly linked to the Great Depression, it was much more a combination of factors in response to the same, yes, plus other past reasons, that slowly planted the seeds of discontent that "exploded" by the 1950s. Besides this, the following text you added, is a bit too much detailed regarding the African movements topic, while other parts of the country's history don't have such focus. I again suggest trim it and make it brief, aligned with the rest of the history content, otherwise, other important details have to be added in the sub-contents of history. Cheers Tuesp1985 (talk) 17:46, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

The root cause of those independence movements was the Great Depression, as stated in the source: " ... the Great Depression discredited a market-led mode of colonial development and facilitated anti-colonial resistance ... Although the Great Depression did not trigger mass peasant rebellions across the colonial world, protests did occur. Colonial governments usually responded to such unrest with the use of coercive instruments. The protests generated debate within metropolitan and colonial societies about the need for a more holistic approach to colonial development, including a greater focus on improving the welfare of workers and their families ... The riots gave rise to leaders, unions and political parties that demanded independence." (pp. 201-202); "... the way by which imperial and colonial administrations managed colonial economies by imposing new restrictions on the colonial peoples as a response to the Great Depression bred resistance and led to some minor imperial reforms, notably the provision of aid for capital investment ... the depression highlighted the socio-economic vulnerabilities of colonies arising from a reliance on exporting cash crops and minerals to overseas markets..." (p. 202) "... traced the economic roots of decolonisation to the Great Depression, a trade collapse that reduced the incomes of the colonial poor and stimulated anti-colonial nationalism." (p. 208). The text now reads: "From the 1940s the regime tightened control over colonial affairs and expanded the overseas administration, raising costs and delaying inefficient development programmes while maintaining a fragmented customs and economic empire in which exchange controls served metropolitan priorities. It also retained policies intended to preserve the colonies, such as forced labour until 1961 and settlement schemes to generate remittances for the metropole, provide a social model, and buffer against anti-colonial resistance and foreign claims" GumballNine1Nine (talk) 18:44, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Sure, but I still think the wording is not right yet. I would propose "with the effects of the Great Depression creating the conditions for social and economic discontent that led to the emergence of liberation movements." Also, I would agaig trim the later wording: "From the 1940s onward, the regime intensified its control over colonial affairs, expanding overseas administration, increasing costs, and maintaining a fragmented economic and customs empire that favored the metropole. Policies to preserve the colonies persisted, such as forced labor (until 1961) or programs aimed at sending remittances to the metropole." Cheers Tuesp1985 (talk) 00:58, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

The text now reads: "During the Estado Novo, Portugal remained neutral in World War II, after which the postwar end of colonial legitimacy and the growth of the existing Great Depression rooted African independence movements increasingly challenged Portuguese rule overseas. From the 1940s onward, the regime tightened control over colonial affairs and expanded overseas administration, increasing costs and delaying inefficient development programmes. It maintained a fragmented economic and customs empire that favored the metropole. The regime retained retained policies intended to preserve the colonies such as forced labour until 1961 and settlement schemes that served metropolitan economic, social and strategic purposes." The source states that "An outlier to this pattern was the Portuguese Empire, where decolonisation followed intense anticolonial struggle and a military coup. More so than for other European powers, empire was important for Portugal's national identity and culture. It was argued that Portugal was a pluri-continental and multiracial nation that had "overseas provinces" rather than colonies. The economic hardships during WWII and its aftermath also mitigated against quick decolonisation. After the war, the Portuguese colonies not only provided cheap raw materials and offered a market for Portuguese exports but also dealt with population pressure at home. White settlement schemes in Angola and Mozambique reached a peak in the 1950s. The mostly poor men and women who migrated from Portugal and settled on small agricultural properties sent remittances home, which helped the metropolitan economy. It was assumed these white settlers would act as a "model" for local people and buffer against both anti-colonial resistance and territorial incursion by other colonial powers." (p. 208) so those programs weren't just aimed at sending remittances to the metropole. As for the first sentence, I'd keep it as concise as possible, especially because "creating the conditions for social and economic discontent that led to the emergence of liberation movements" is already implied. It is already stated that those African independence movements were rooted in the Great Depression, which means they trace their roots to it. If you check, I also linked Great Depression to the section of that article that discusses this, so I don’t see any reason to add that specific text to the article. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 08:02, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Again, I still think the text is not easy to read. "and the growth of the existing Great Depression rooted African independence movements increasingly challenged Portuguese rule overseas." - I propose this "and the growth of African independence movements, rooted in the Great Depression, increasingly challenged Portuguese dominance abroad." On the following text, I again think that the proposal I made is more concise. Cheers Tuesp1985 (talk) 16:53, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

The phrase now reads: "During the Estado Novo, Portugal remained neutral in World War II, after which the postwar end of colonial legitimacy and the growth of the existing independence movements, rooted in the Great Depression, increasingly challenged Portuguese rule overseas". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 04:53, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Much better thanks. I again press on a trim in the following text. Cheers Tuesp1985 (talk) 16:46, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

I will also review the citations as requested by @GumballNine1Nine. Tuesp1985 (talk) 00:16, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

Did a review of the first 150 references. The content looks fine, but some of the references are citations from repeated sources: References [11], [16] and [17] come from the same source, as do [13] and [15]; [29] and [30]; [21], [34], [35], [40] and [41]; plus [47], [48], [49], [53] and [62]. Not sure how to handle this, as content is in different parts of the same source, but then increases the total number of references. Also, the texts on references [55] and [57] could be moved to notes, linked to a reference. Cheers Tuesp1985 (talk) 15:22, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for doing this review. To keep things from becoming as overwhelming as they did during the last nomination, I'll address all your suggestions as soon as Noleander's and Borsoka's reviews are done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 02:08, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

@GumballNine1Nine, @Melroross, let's try to reach a compromise and avoid an edit war. In most country pages, mainly FAC pages, the introductory summary doesn't have references, so, GumballNine1Nine's text should remain. In the history content, Melroross's references and additional information can be included. What do you guys think? I'll await feedback. Cheers Tuesp1985 (talk) 14:05, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the message Tuesp1985. I have several issues with the introductory text as stated:

1) The text doesn't follow a chronological/successive order in terms of human movements/settlements into Portugal.

For instance (and this is the only case I can find that somewhat resembles this: "Neanderthals roamed the southwestern Iberian Peninsula until 37,000 years ago, and anatomically modern humans arrived in what is now Portugal around 40,000 years ago" but feel free to elaborate so I can fix them): Neanderthals and anatomically modern humans lived at the same time in mainland Portugal. (But here at least the Neanderthals came first, before anatomically modern humans.) GumballNine1Nine (talk) 19:44, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

2) Lusitanians were not the only inhabitants in Portugal- they occupied central, mountain/inland regions only (Beiras). There were other peoples contemporary to the Lusitanians in Northern, coastal central, and southern Portugal. The text as is, implies otherwise.

How so? Where in "Pre-Celtic tribes originally from the Ukrainian steppes inhabited mainland Portugal and the Lusitanians occupied mostly central, inland regions in 1250 BC" is the problem? GumballNine1Nine (talk) 19:32, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

3) Phoenicians did not 'colonize Portugal', as in the whole country, nor were they that relevant. They appear at the end of the intro-section, out of sync.

The source states: "... the Phoenician colonization of the Iberian Peninsula ... The Phoenicians' successful establishment on the Iberian Peninsula ..., led to the foundation of a long chain of new colonial foundations from the east and south coasts of Iberia to the Atlantic, including Portugal, during the eighth and seventh centuries BCE." (p. 18) GumballNine1Nine (talk) 19:15, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

4) Celts 'may have moved westward' is highly ambiguous. It misleads the uninformed reader as to the presence of Celtic tribes in Portugal, and undermines their cultural etc. legacy and importance.

The source states: "... Celtic may have spread westwards in the Peninsula towards the Atlantic in the latter part of the first millennium BC, not from the Atlantic eastwards in the third millennium, along with the Bell Beaker culture, as hypothesized by Cunliffe (2018, 63). Westwards could also be the direction of travel that brought Celtic to Brittany, Britain, and Ireland... During the first millennium BC, Celtic spread into eastern Iberia (probably well before the time of Herodotus and Herodoru" (p. 523) GumballNine1Nine (talk) 21:02, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

5) The Alexander III papal seal of recognition in 1179 again is again presented as 'absolute' when in reality, Portugal became a de facto country in 1143 with Afonso I (Afonso Henriques).

The source states: "In October he invited Afonso Henriques to a conference at Zamora. The Leonese monarch wished not only to secure his own border with Portugal in the coming months but also to obtain the collaboration of his cousin in simultaneous attacks on the Almoravids and he was willing to make the greatest concessions to achieve such cooperation. The evidence for what transpired between the two at Zamora is certainly less than we should wish. In the first instance, it consists in two royal charters, one to a Martin Cidez and another to Pons de Cabrera (D458-59). Although the Portuguese ruler does not appear as a confirmant of either he is cited in the dating formula of both. They speak of the Council of Valladolid celebrated by Cardinal Guido and of the 'king of Portugal' who came to hold a conference with the emperor. Since the charters were drafted by Alfonso VII's chancery, the recognition of the new royal status of Afonso Henriques is implicit." (pp. 80-81) (There's nothing here that says anything close to that. It only states that there are two documents with an implicit recognition of Afonso Henriques as king, and implies that such recognition might have occurred earlier than 1143. Those are simply the documents that have been found containing a claim of this kind..) GumballNine1Nine (talk) 19:28, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

Suggested format for Historical Origins of Portugal

The western Iberian Peninsula has been inhabited since prehistory, with the earliest Neolithic pioneer agricultural settlements emerging between 5500 BC and 5300 BC. Peer-reviewed research from publishers such as Elsevier and De Gruyter outlines a clear demographic succession through the Chalcolithic Bell Beaker culture and the integration of Eurasian Steppe lineages. By the Iron Age, this genetic and cultural evolution gave rise to the Indo-European Celtic Castro culture alongside pre-Celtic populations like the Lusitanians. The territory was subsequently integrated into the Roman Empire as the provinces of Lusitania and Gallaecia, leaving extensive administrative and infrastructural foundations. Following the decline of Roman power, Germanic tribes—specifically the Suebi and Visigoths—established regional governance. Following the volatile Muslim invasion of 711, the geo-political formation of modern Portugal was driven by early defensive and expansionist Reconquista military actions launched by the Kingdoms of Asturias and León. These operations led to the consolidation of Portugal as a county of León in 868. The region achieved de facto sovereignty as the Kingdom of Portugal in 1143 under King Afonso Henriques through the Treaty of Zamora. This independent status achieved final de jure international legitimacy via the Papal Bull Manifestis Probatum in 1179. Peer-Reviewed Academic References Neolithic Pioneers & Bell Beaker Transition:Martins, H., et al. (Elsevier / Journal of Archaeological Science). "The timing and spatio-temporal dynamics of the Neolithic transition in Western Iberia."Olalde, I., et al. (Princeton/German Studies / Nature). "The genomic history of the Iberian Peninsula over the past 8000 years" — details the integration of Steppe lineages and Bell Beaker distribution. Castro Culture, Lusitanians, and Roman Governance:Cunliffe, B. (Oxford University Press). Facing the Ocean: The Atlantic and Its Peoples. — covers the Celtic Castro culture and Atlantic networks. Curchin, L. A. (Routledge / Taylor & Francis). The Romanization of Central Spain: Complexity, Diversity and Change in a Provincial Context — details the administrative transition of Lusitania and Gallaecia. Germanic Invasions & Early Medieval Formations:Heather, P. (Oxford University Press). Empires and Barbarians: The Fall of Rome and the Birth of Europe — details Suebi and Visigothic territorial consolidation. The Reconquista, County of 868, and 1143/1179 Sovereignty:Barton, S. (Cambridge University Press). The Aristocracy in Twelfth-Century León and Castile. — documents the Treaty of Zamora (1143) and institutional dynamics of the Leonese frontier.Lay, S. (Palgrave Macmillan / Springer). The Reconquest Kings of Portugal: Lineage and Allegiance in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries — covers the 868 county foundation and the Manifestis Probatum papal validation. Melroross (talk) 22:55, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

Reply to GumballNine1Nine == Proposed Introduction & History Revisions: Chronological and Sourced Framework ==

@Tuesp1985 and @GumballNine1Nine, thank you for stepping in to find a compromise. To resolve the dispute permanently, I have completely restructured the disputed text into a strict, factual, and chronological sequence. Every single statement is now anchored exclusively by high-impact, peer-reviewed academic literature (Oxford University Press, Cambridge University Press, Nature, and Elsevier), completely removing general or unverified assertions.

Here is how this revised framework explicitly addresses the specific issues raised:

• Chronology & Origins: The text now cleanly outlines the timeline starting strictly with the earliest Neolithic pioneer agricultural settlements (5500–5300 BC) and follows a clear demographic succession through the Bell Beaker culture and Steppe migrations.

The source states: "In principle, it is always worth investigating whether the spread of material 'cultures' can be correlated with the spread of peoples and languages. A particular weakness ... , however, is its attempt to match up Celtic, or supposedly Celtic, linguistic data from the first millennium BC and later with archaeological data from the third millennium BC such as Bell Beakers (cf. Falileyev 2015). The chronological disparity is so vast that the hypothesis is impossible to confirm ... On the basis of this dubious philology, it is suggested that 'the eastern spread of Bell Beaker culture could be the vector by which the Celtic language spread across much of western Europe.' The 'Bell Beaker culture' seems set to replace the 'Hallstatt culture' as a surrogate for solid information about prehistoric linguistic geography. It is a baseless speculation" (pp. 523-524) GumballNine1Nine (talk) 04:11, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• Pre-Roman Populations: The text gives proper, distinct weight to the Indo-European Celtic Castro culture alongside pre-Celtic populations like the Lusitanians, correctly reflecting the regional tribal mosaic without implying one group dominated the whole territory.

The source states: "....there remains little evidence for Celticity in the southwest of the Peninsula and none of it is early ... The Celts who took their language with them may often have adopted the material culture of the territories where they settled, thereby becoming archaeologically indistinguishable." and it concludes by stating that "Mutatis mutandis, the above case study may be useful to those considering the prehistoric linguistic geographies of other areas. To mention just one example, some archaeologists have a ‘presumption’, on the basis of the ‘Corded Ware culture’, that ‘some form of Germanic was spoken in south Scandinavia from c 3000 bc onwards’, whereas ‘linguists have rarely imagined that the Germanic language itself came into existence much before 500 bc’ (see Mallory et al. Reference Mallory, Dybo and Balanovsky 2019, 1483). In such situations, archaeologists and philologists need to reconsider the nature and validity of the evidence they use.". The article is a literature review, and some of the authors you quoted above, such as Cunliffe, are rebutted in it. The level of detail you presented on this topic only proves again what @Borsoka: was saying. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 05:34, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• Ancient & Medieval Contacts: To ensure strict historical and genetic accuracy, the text establishes that the sociocultural matrix is profoundly anchored in its Romanized heritage (establishing the dominant culture, Latin-derived language, and Christian foundations). Ancient contacts (Carthaginians and Greeks) and medieval incursions (the Moors and Vikings) are kept appropriately brief and qualified based on their localized impacts.

As @Borsoka: has already pointed out: "... statements tracing a nation's values and identity back to poorly documented ancient peoples are always highly questionable." That's why I excluded any mention of this. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 03:33, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• The Sovereignty Milestones: The text smoothly balances both critical events—the de facto autonomy recognized at the Treaty of Zamora in 1143 and the final de jure international legitimacy granted by the Papal Bull Manifestis Probatum in 1179.

Again, as I explained above, there's no evidence whatsoever of the Treaty of Zamora. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 05:14, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

I have implemented this using standard Wikipedia template citations (` {{cite journal}}: Empty citation (help)` and ` {{cite book}}: Empty citation (help)`) so it is fully verified and stable. Please review the updated text block. I look forward to your feedback so we can implement this compromise and move forward. Cheers, Melroross Melroross (talk) 23:18, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

Reply to GumballNine1Nine. Melroross (talk) 23:23, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

Melroross (talk) 23:27, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

I understand the ongoing process and do not wish to jeopardise the work of others, of course. I would suggest rewording the intro section into a more concise, sequential, and unambiguous manner. That is very viable and does not require references, which you mention is the preferred format here. Does this sound constructive? Best, ~~ Melroross (talk) 00:38, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

@GumballNine1Nine, on the Infrastructure content, the phrase "The country is pursuing energy transition and has invested in the development of renewable energy sources such as the Aguçadoura Wave Farm.", should be changed as the Aguçadoura Wave Farm was shutdown 18 years ago, and it can create confusion about its current state. I propose changing it to something like this: "The country is pursuing energy transition and has strongly invested in the development of renewable energy sources such as wind and solar farms." Cheers Tuesp1985 (talk) 10:43, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuesp1985 (talk • contribs)

Comments from Noleander

• I was a reviewer in the prior FAC nomination #4. I did a prose/MOS review. Overall, the article's prose and MOS-compliance was in decent shape. The biggest issue for me was the article was a bit promotional: some words and statistics had a whiff of puffery & boosterism about them: not as neutral as an encyclopedia should be. The nominator resolved all those issues, including some prose/MOS issues I raised. I concluded with a support opinion, but I made a note that there were two other reviewers (Joko2468 and Jens Lallensack) who identified text-to-source integrity issues, and I had not done any spot checks, so I was not in a position to comment on that. Following notes are on the current version of the article.

• The citation & sourcing formatting looks excellent: consistent & uniform. Article uses sentence case for source titles, which is fine. Sources have sufficient detail.

• Coverage is broad: I looked at a couple of other WP articles about countries and the outline is similar. I cannot see any significant topics that are omitted. Article is a top-level article that makes good use of sub-articles per WP:SUMMARY STYLE and WP:SPLIT.

• I'm trying to see how the article relates to WP:SIZERULE, but I cannot get the "Page Size" tool to work ... maybe the article has too many bytes for that tool to handle? The "Page Information" tool says "Page length (in bytes) 394,953" which is rather large, but doesn't necessarily mean the "prose word" count is outlandish. Does the nominator have a "prose word" count for the article? Not a show-stopper for FAC, I'm just curious.

The current prose word count is 7,968 words. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 04:32, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

After addressing Borsoka's review the article now has 8,035 words, which unfortunately has gone over the 8,000 word mark set by WP:SIZERULE. I'm not sure if this is an issue for an FA status article or not. I'll see where I can prune once I’ve finished with Tuesp1985's review, to try to get it back under 8,000 prose words. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:40, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

@GumballNine1Nine - There is no reason to trim to get it under 8,000. The WP:SIZERULE guideline is not a "strong" guideline, it is a mere suggestion. There have been proposals to make the limits in it more strict, but those have never reached consensus. It is common for FAC nominations on major topics to get promoted to FA at size 9,000 or 9,500. Even 10,000 or 10,500 sometimes, but those will get criticism for not complying with WP:SUMMARYSTYLE and WP:SPINOFF. If Portugal is anywhere under 9,000 it should be okay for FAC. Noleander (talk) 01:18, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

• Capitalization: "... by American trends, which has led into the evolution of Hip-hop tuga and popularization of Rock. Historically, Portugal has been a country of emigration which has heavily influenced the Pimba in the 20th century ..." All music genres should be lowercase: "Rock" and "Hip-hop" certainly. Also (according to my quick research) "pimba". The WP article Pimba uses both cap and not-cap; but outside authorities indicate it is a genre just like jazz or pop or rock.

Done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 04:49, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

• Prose: overall, the prose is good quality, to my eyes: seems professional and engaging, and meets FACR requirements (of course, any reviewer can find a handful of issues).

• Red error message on cite #410: Heidari et al. (2018), p. 751. Harv error: link from CITEREFHeidariYazdaniSaghafiJalilvand2018 doesn't point to any citation. Harv error: link from CITEREFHeidariYazdaniSaghafiJalilvand2018 doesn't point to any citation.

So about this one : I’ve spent literally hours trying to figure out why this particular citation doesn’t work. I’d be glad if anyone can help me out with this.! GumballNine1Nine (talk) 04:38, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

@GumballNine1Nine - Two spellings for same person: Jalilvand vs Jalilvan. Not sure which is correct. Noleander (talk) 14:07, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

Corrected the spelling, it was Jalilvand, not Jalilvan. Thanks for spotting the mistake! GumballNine1Nine (talk) 19:31, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• Article makes good use of links to Portugues WP (with the red link to English WP) .e.g Major Options.
  • For red link Gulbenkian Institute of Molecular Medicine consider linking to Port. WP (if they are the same thing): https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instituto_Gulbenkian_de_Ci%C3%AAncia

Done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 19:38, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• Unused source: the show-ref-check tool says the following source is not used anywhere in the article (if so: should move it to "Further Reading" or remove it): Beck, Hylke E.; McVicar, Tim R. .... "High-resolution (1 km) Köppen-Geiger maps for 1901–2099 based on constrained CMIP6 projections" ...
  • Ditto for source Borges Santos, Paula (22 August 2025). "Path dependence and political bargaining in the elaboration of contents of authoritarian constitutions: the Portuguese Constitution of 1933" (PDF). European Law Open. 4 (4). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press: 838–852. doi:10.1017/elo.2025.10022.

Included both of those sources in the article. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 19:53, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• Two cites have unusually large quotes from the sources:
  • #55 Franco da Costa (2014),"No document until the 15th century mentions the apparition of Christ to D. Afonso Henriques on the eve of the Battle of Ourique. Those that have been presented are not conclusive. There are, however, 'five' 12th century documents that refer to the battle — yet none of them mention the apparition, even though some narrate miracles. The first certain references to the miracle appear in the mid-15th century. Once it emerged, the legend gradually expanded until it acquired its definitive form in the writers of the sixteenth century ... We therefore have, on one side, the silence of the three centuries closest to the battle concerning the miracle of the apparition, and on the other, the late appearance of the legend under circumstances that point to an evolutionary process. It should also be noted that, according to the 16th century version, Christ did not merely appear and promise victory — He also prophesied the future destinies of Portugal. Thus, the contemporaries of the conquering king supposedly received from God Himself the titles legitimizing the new monarchy and the guarantee of its glorious future. Yet it is precisely this fact of the divine foundation of Portugal — the most important fact of all for the Portuguese — about which everyone remains silent, while they do speak of the battle that supposedly occurred."
  • #57 Reilly (1998), pp. 80-81, "In October he invited Afonso Henriques to a conference at Zamora. The Leonese monarch wished not only to secure his own border with Portugal in the coming months but also to obtain the collaboration of his cousin in simultaneous attacks on the Almoravids and he was willing to make the greatest concessions to achieve such cooperation. The evidence for what transpired between the two at Zamora is certainly less than we should wish. In the first instance, it consists in two royal charters, one to a Martin Cidez and another to Pons de Cabrera (D458-59). Although the Portuguese ruler does not appear as a confirmant of either he is cited in the dating formula of both. They speak of the Council of Valladolid celebrated by Cardinal Guido and of the 'king of Portugal' who came to hold a conference with the emperor. Since the charters were drafted by Alfonso VII's chancery, the recognition of the new royal status of Afonso Henriques is implicit."

I don't think that violates any WP guidelines... after all, the {{cite}} template has a "quote" field. That template documentation says "When quoting a copyrighted text, only brief quotations to attribute a point of view or idea are permitted; extensive quotations are prohibited." For quotes that large, there should probably be a compelling reason. One valid reason for a large quote in the cite is if another editor challenged the veracity of the fact (that the cite is supporting). Is that what happened?

• Long story short: unless you are really deep in Portuguese history, you’d believe there was a “Treaty of Zamora” and that Christ appeared to Afonso at the Battle of Ourique. For instance, the 900th anniversary of Portugal sponsored by the government will celebrate the so-called Treaty of Zamora, which was actually a conference, not a treaty signing. These two events are so commonly misunderstood that I felt explanatory notes were necessary. Returning to Wikipedia, the Treaty of Zamora article used to discuss that conference until it was reverted for a reason I don’t know. Including both these quotes helps combat misinformation on this topic. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 05:05, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

  Alright. The huge quotes in the cites are not an issue for FA status. A final thought: consider breaking each of those two big-quote cites into two entities: (a) brief cite to a source; and (b) an "efn" footnote that gives the quote. The efn footnote can begin with a preface that explains what you wrote immediately above about the common misunderstandings; then ends with the quote(s). The same cite can be shared by both the body text and the efn footnote. Noleander (talk) 13:51, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

  I've added the sources and the "efn" footnotes which read: (footnote f) "There are five surviving 12th-century documents that refer to the Battle of Ourique, none of which mention any apparition of Christ to D. Afonso Henriques, the earliest such references appear in the 15th century. According to the historian Rodrigo Franco da Costa: "No document until the 15th century mentions the apparition of Christ to D. Afonso Henriques on the eve of the Battle of Ourique. Those that have been presented are not conclusive. There are, however, 'five' 12th century documents that refer to the battle — yet none of them mention the apparition, even though some narrate miracles. The first certain references to the miracle appear in the mid-15th century. Once it emerged, the legend gradually expanded until it acquired its definitive form in the writers of the sixteenth century ... We therefore have, on one side, the silence of the three centuries closest to the battle concerning the miracle of the apparition, and on the other, the late appearance of the legend under circumstances that point to an evolutionary process. It should also be noted that, according to the 16th century version, Christ did not merely appear and promise victory — He also prophesied the future destinies of Portugal. Thus, the contemporaries of the conquering king supposedly received from God Himself the titles legitimizing the new monarchy and the guarantee of its glorious future. Yet it is precisely this fact of the divine foundation of Portugal — the most important fact of all for the Portuguese — about which everyone remains silent, while they do speak of the battle that supposedly occurred"[55]" and (footnote g) "Unlike popular belief, there are no surviving documents indicating that a treaty was signed at Zamora in 1143 recognizing Portugal's status as a kingdom by the Kingdom of León. Historian Bernard F. Reilly states that "In October he invited Afonso Henriques to a conference at Zamora. The Leonese monarch wished not only to secure his own border with Portugal in the coming months but also to obtain the collaboration of his cousin in simultaneous attacks on the Almoravids and he was willing to make the greatest concessions to achieve such cooperation. The evidence for what transpired between the two at Zamora is certainly less than we should wish. In the first instance, it consists in two royal charters, one to a Martin Cidez and another to Pons de Cabrera (D458-59). Although the Portuguese ruler does not appear as a confirmant of either he is cited in the dating formula of both. They speak of the Council of Valladolid celebrated by Cardinal Guido and of the 'king of Portugal' who came to hold a conference with the emperor. Since the charters were drafted by Alfonso VII's chancery, the recognition of the new royal status of Afonso Henriques is implicit."[57]" GumballNine1Nine (talk) 21:13, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• Convoluted wording: "Afonso's claim is documented as having been recognized by Alfonso VII of León at the Conference of Zamora in 1143 ..." Takes a lot of concentration to parse that, and "having been" doesn't sound very polished. Is there a more direct way of saying what needs to be said? Is this better: "Afonso's claim was recognized by Alfonso VII of León at the Conference of Zamora in 1143 ..."? Alternatively, if there there is some debate about whether his claim is valid or not, the article should plainly state that e.g. "Afonso's claim is is disputed by some historians." then add an efn footnote that gives some details e.g. His claim is documented as having been recognized by Alfonso VII of León at the Conference of Zamora in 1143 ...".

The way I wrote that statement follows the same reasoning as before. In fact, the reason the day of the so-called Treaty of Zamora is included in the celebrations of the 900th anniversary of Portugal is that people wrongly believe it was there that the independence of Portugal was recognized by the Kingdom of León. In reality, the only indication we have is that there are "two royal charters, one to a Martin Cidez and another to Pons de Cabrera (D458-59). Although the Portuguese ruler does not appear as a confirmant of either he is cited in the dating formula of both. They speak of the Council of Valladolid celebrated by Cardinal Guido and of the 'king of Portugal' who came to hold a conference with the emperor. Since the charters were drafted by Alfonso VII's chancery, the recognition of the new royal status of Afonso Henriques is implicit." The recognition of Portugal's royal status by León could very well have happened earlier, but as far as we know these are the first documented instances of it. That is why I stated that "Afonso's claim is documented as having been recognized by Alfonso VII of León at the Conference of Zamora in 1143...". I therefore have some reservations about affirming that there was a formal recognition at Zamora, or about stating that there is a dispute among historians on this point, since there does not appear to be any real dispute over when the first documents confirming Portugal’s royal status appeared. How about: "Afonso's claim was implicitly recognized by Alfonso VII of León at the Conference of Zamora in 1143..."? GumballNine1Nine (talk) 20:25, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

I think I understand your point. I have not read the sources (and I know nothing about the Treaty of Zamora) so I cannot give an opinion about the blue proposal immediately above. I'll simply reiterate that the sentence in question is hard to parse, and I'm not sure what it is saying. So any re-wording that clarifies and is more direct would be welcome by readers. Noleander (talk) 20:36, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

The sentence now reads: "Afonso's claim was implicitly recognized by Alfonso VII of León at the Conference of Zamora in 1143...". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 20:46, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• That's all I have for now. Noleander (talk) 00:20, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

  @Noleander: I hope this has addressed your concerns so far. Thank you very much for the time and effort you took in this review. If there are no time-consuming source-text integrity issues that I need to resolve, I'll be happy to conduct a full review of your article as well. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 21:20, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

Second pass

• Wording "Wildfires remain a serious challenge in Portugal, with nearly 30% ..." The word "remain" should only be used if a prior sentence talked about historical wildfires. Suggest remove the word.

The text now reads: "Wildfires are a serious challenge in Portugal, with nearly 30% ...". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 18:03, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• Wording "Portugal has developed a specific culture due to, initially before its existence, the influence from various civilisations that have crossed Europe, especially the Mediterranean." Grammar is not professional quality, and I'm not sure what it is trying to say. Without knowing what the sources say, I'm not in a position to suggest an alternative wording. But for sure "unique culture" is better than "specific culture".

The phrase now reads: "Portugal's culture has developed due to, initially before its existence, the influence from various civilisations that have crossed Europe, especially the Mediterranean.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 18:10, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• Image caption: wording: "In Viana do Castelo, women traditionally wear family heirlooms [pt] in festivities" The English phrase "family heirlooms" is a bit misleading. I googled the traditional red outfits, and it says they are called either traje minhoto or Traje à Lavradeira; unfortunately Portuguese WP does not have articles for either of those. The linked Port article is Ouro de Viana but that article is only about the gold embroidery, not the full outfit. I'm sure many of the outfits are indeed family heirlooms, but that is an incidental aspect of the outfit as a whole. Consider changing "family heirlooms" to "traditional outfits" or similar. As for the link to Port WP: instead of "Ouro de Viana" consider using Romaria de Nossa Senhora da Agonia which appears to be an annual festival where the outfits are worn: that article includes the same photo, and indicates that the outfits are worn especially during the festival.

Yeah, I think that image is probably misleading. You mentioned that family heirlooms are only an incidental aspect of the outfit, which is not the case. The festival is better known for people displaying gold embroidery than for the outfits themselves. Viana do Castelo, the town where the festivity takes place, is known for its gold embroidery, called Ouro de Viana. One of the symbols of Portugal, the Heart of Viana (for instance, the doors of the only Portuguese military cemetery in France have the same shape), is typical of the area and is shown in the image on several women. I thought this aspect was more unique than the traditional outfits. I can change the image if you'd like. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 01:09, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

@GumballNine1Nine - Thanks ... so the gold embroidery is important. But the caption does not explain that to readers. I see English WP has an article Goldwork (embroidery). Questions:

1) Would the caption be better for readers if changed to something like "The women of [province] practice the traditional art of gold-thread embroidery [also here give a 2nd link to PT article on gold embroidery], as seen in this photo of [annual festival] in [name of city]".

@Noleander: Done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 15:10, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

2) What source/page number discusses the Portuguese tradition of the gold embroidery?

Noleander (talk) 14:29, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

@Noleander: 1 and 2 talk about this (both articles are in Portuguese) GumballNine1Nine (talk) 14:50, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

@Noleander: I've also added those sources to the article. If you want more info about them, such as page numbers, it’s all there. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 16:35, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• Add duplicate link "...since 1993 except between 2011 and 2016 during the Portuguese financial crisis ..." I had to spend a minute finding the WP article about that crisis, not a good use of time :-) The WP Linking guidelines permit links to be duplicated up to once per major section. When to duplicate is a judgement call, but in this instance, readers will need to click on "Portuguese financial crisis" to fully understand the sentence, so here is an example were a duplicated link is proper and acceptable.

Sorry about that. There's now a duplicate link to that article in that section. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:13, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• Wording: "Influences from African Traditional Religion and Chinese Traditional Religion are also felt among many people, particularly in fields related .." The word "felt" doesnt seem precise or professional. Is there a better wording? Maybe "Influences from African and Chinese traditional religions are also evident among many people ... "?

Done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:00, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• Add duplicate link: "were subsequently reversed under the Estado Novo ..." Again, a critical term with its first link way up above in another major section.

Done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 23:57, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• Prose/punctuation: "Historically, religion, specifically Christianity, had an influential role in Portuguese art, as it was a recurrent theme widely employed in many art forms, such as in painting." Five commas in that sentence. Consider rephrasing to be less convoluted.

The phrase now reads: "Historically, Christianity played an influential role in Portuguese art and was a recurrent theme in many art forms, including painting.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:37, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• Typo in page range: |pages=111–p118

• Citations to journals: Can you provide some clarification on journal citation page ranges? For example:

• Cite #271 is Resende (2009), pp. 11–24. which points to source Resende, José Manuel (1 June 2009). "O lugar do Dia ... NOVA University Lisbon: 11–24.
• Cite #248 is Líbano Monteiro (2024), pp. 111–118 which points to source Líbano Monteiro, Cristina (28 November 2024). "Portugal" .... Elgar Publishing. pp. 111–118
• Cite #167 is Baptista et al. (2025), pp. 805–827. points to source Baptista, João Afonso; Neto, Pedro Figueiredo; Braverman, Irus; Steinberg, Philip; Palermo, Gabriella;.... Environment and Planning. 43 (5). London: SAGE Publishing: 805–827

The convention for Featured Article citations is that if the source contains more than a "few" pages (around 5 to 10) then the sfn/sfnp/harvnb citation should provide readers and reviewers with specific pages.

It looks like Jens Lallensack may have raised a similar issue in their review where they wrote "I was asking to add precise page numbers to the efn-templates (the only purpose of these is to provide page numbers, so no reason to cite the full paper range here and then again in the cite journal templates)." The nominator mentioned {{Page range too broad}} in their reply to Jens, quoting from that tempate: "...the standard citation method for academic journal articles is to list the full page range for the whole article" but that guidance applies to defining a source (in the "Sources" or "References" section) via the "cite journal" template.

Did @Joko2468: bring this same issue up in the prior nomination (nom #4) of this article? Joko2468 wrote: "I don't think the sourcing is up to FA standard. The pervasive citing of entire journal articles lends itself to excessive summarisation, perhaps to the point of WP:OR. This subject is well-served; it shouldn't be too difficult to find brief and explicit statements that support the material." [bold emphasis added]. Can you explain why you didn't follow up on that constructive criticism?

The convention in FA articles is that inline citations (sfn/harvnb in the body text) should identify specific page(s). An exception is: if the size of the source is less than 6 pages (approx) the sfn/harvnb template may omit the page # entirely. An example of when it may be appropriate for an inline cite to specify a range of 10 or more pages (approx) is if the body text fact is generic, introductory, overview material, and the source is also introductory in nature (those sorts of cites are relatively rare).

The "approx 6 pages" and "approx 10 pages" thresholds are not captured in writing in any FAC guideline: they are informal conventions applied in many reviews. Noleander (talk) 17:50, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

@Noleander: You’re right to point this out, especially in light of my recent comments on another nomination. I must confess that I lacked oversight on this specific point when it came to journal citations, and I’ll look into resolving the page-range issue on the journal articles that still have this problem. The reason for this was that I paid more attention to the content of the journals themselves and forgot to standardise them with more specific page ranges, as at the time I added most of the journal sources I thought that the full page ranges applied to inline citations. I'll address this in my next edits to the article as soon as I’m able to, once I’ve finished my comments on China. I’ll ping you once the job is done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 20:50, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• That's all for now. Noleander (talk) 17:50, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• Support - I've skimmed over the article, and I don't see any remaining deficiencies related to the WP:FACR. The nominator has worked hard to identify and supply a deep range of reliable sources. In my assessment, the prose and MOS compliance meets FA requirements. I have not done a image review or source review; and I am not an expert or Portugal or European history. Additionally, I note that Portugal is a tremendously important country with a long history, so any individual reviewer may find some issues related to tone, coverage, or focus. Noleander (talk) 20:54, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

  Thanks for your support! And thank you for coming back a second time, I sincerely appreciate the effort you put into reviewing the article. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 01:52, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

Borsoka

First of all, congratulations on summarising information about an entire country in just 8,000 words. I have seen much more verbose texts on far narrower subjects promoted to FA status despite exceeding 10,000 words.

• I miss a reference to both the Carthaginians and the Romans in the lead. Given that the Romans held the territory for more than six centuries, and that the Portuguese language developed as a result of Romanisation, I think they must be mentioned in the lead.

The text now reads: "Shaped by the various civilisations that have inhabited its territory, such as the Carthaginians and the Romans Portugal developed a culture...". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:10, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

• The word Portugal derives from Latin Portus Cale, meaning 'port of Cale', itself the origin of Porto, while Cale was a town on the Douro. I am not sure I understand the reference to the origin of Porto: is it a reference to the establishment of the city of Porto, or a to the origin of its name? Introduce Porto as a city.

The text now reads "The word Portugal derives from Latin Portus Cale, a Roman name meaning port of Cale, itself the origin of the word Porto, a Portuguese city,...". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 07:01, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• There is no consensus on the etymology of Cale. It could be an ethnonym derived from the Celtic Gallaeci peoples, who occupied the north-west of the Iberian Peninsula. If there is no consensus, an alternative possible etymology should also be mentioned. Alternatively, the choice of the sole etymology should be explained ("According to most scholar view,...", or something similar).

The text now reads: "It could derive from the pre-Indo-European word Kala, meaning 'shelter' or 'refuge', passed into the Celtic language in the form Cale, with the meaning of 'land' or 'mountain'. The ethnonym derived from the Celtic Gallaeci peoples, who occupied the north-west of the Iberian Peninsula, would then come to designate the 'one of the land' or the 'one of the place'". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 07:14, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• ...passed into the Celtic language... Which Celtic language?

The Callaecian language, added link to the article. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 13:39, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

• The ethnonym then came from the Gallaeci, Celtic peoples of northwestern Iberia, and came to mean 'one of the land' or 'one of the place. I do not understand the reference to "the ethnonym", as no ethnonym is mentioned previously. Borsoka (talk) 07:55, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

The text now reads: "The ethnonym Calaico/a then came from the Gallaeci, Celtic peoples of northwestern Iberia, and came to mean 'one of the land' or 'one of the place.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 11:35, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

• Around 137 BC, the Romans, during the Second Punic War, conquered Cale from the Carthaginians and later renamed it Portus Cale. Delete it, because the core information (Portus Cale) is mentioned in the first sentence. Perhaps, you may refer to the Romans in the first sentence.

Done. The first sentence now reads: "The word Portugal derives from Latin Portus Cale, a Roman name meaning port of Cale...". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 06:30, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• Neanderthals roamed the southwestern Iberian peninsula until 37,000 years ago, and a Neanderthal tooth has been found at the Nova da Columbeira Cave in Estremadura. Homo sapiens sapiens arrived in what is now Portugal around 35,000 years ago and spread rapidly. Delete the reference to the tooth (because it implies it is the only sign of the presence of Neanderthals), and consolidate the two sentences.

The text reads: "Neanderthals roamed the southwestern Iberian Peninsula until 37,000 years ago, after which Homo sapiens sapiens arrived in what is now Portugal around 35,000 years ago and spread rapidly.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 07:24, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• ..., representing an early evidence of writing on the Iberian Peninsula "An early" or the "earliest" evidence? Can it be dated?

This matter over the use of 'earliest' v. 'an early' was discussed at length during the last nomination with Noleander. Long story short, we concluded that the use of superlatives should be taken with caution and only under limited circumstances hence the use of "an early" instead of "earliest".GumballNine1Nine (talk) 08:07, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, it is probably safest to use "an early" for prehistoric events where there cannot be any certainty. Even many purportedly "first" events before, say, 1800 are not 100% certain to be the first. So, personally, I think "earliest" should be reserved for fairly modern events that are well-documented, such as first airplane flight across the Atlantic, or first person to receive the polio vaccine; or when qualified as in "earliest documented use of the word 'astound' in the English language". Noleander (talk) 17:52, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• Pre-Celtic tribes inhabited Portugal and the Lusitanians occupied central, inland regions. When? Introduce the Lusitanians (perhaps as the first known inhabitants of the region).

The sentence now reads: "Pre-Celtic tribes originally from the Ukrainian steppes inhabited mainland Portugal and the Lusitanians occupied mostly central, inland regions in 1250 BC". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 16:23, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• ...originally from the Ukrainian steppes... Is this necessary? Borsoka (talk) 07:55, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

• Celts inhabited most of the remaining territory of mainland Portugal... From when?

I've rephrased that sentence. It now reads: " Celtic may have spread westwards in Iberia in the latter 1st millennium BC.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 12:09, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• ...such as contributing to the formation of Portuguese values and identity, such as saudade Delete: the article is not about the Portuguese nation, but about a country, and statements tracing a nation's values and identity back to poorly documented ancient peoples are always highly questionable.

That info was added during the peer review before my first nomination of this article. As I mentioned there as well, Portugal has a long recorded history, which is evident from the unusually large chronology section in the infobox. I understand your point regarding the differences between 'country' and 'nation', but I don't see this distinction as relevant for a country like Portugal where the political country and the cultural nation have overlapped for a very long time. It would matter more for Spain or other multinational countries, which is not the case here. Having said that, I have absolutely no problem removing it if this becomes a sticking point in your review. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 07:56, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• Such claims could always be debated as the culture of these ancient peoples is poorly documented. Borsoka (talk) 07:55, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

  Removed the claim from the article. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 11:17, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

• ...whose close relations with Phoenician-Punic settlements likely gave them considerable political and economic influence there... What relations? How such relations could give them considerable influence in western Iberia? Where were the Phoenician settlements?

I've added the following sentences: "Phoenecian colonies appeared in Portugal during the 7th and 8th centuries BC" and "The Mediterranean coast was well known to the Carthaginians, whose close relations with Phoenician-Punic settlements on shared cultural ties likely gave them considerable political and economic influence there from the 6th or 5th century BC alongside the establishment of unequal treaties with Iberian city-states.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 09:56, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• Romans invaded the Iberian Peninsula in 218 BC. The Carthaginians were expelled from the peninsula in 206 BC after the Battle of Ilipa. Consolidate and trim the two sentences to make it clear, that the Romans expelled the Carthaginians.

The text now reads: "Romans invaded the Iberian Peninsula in 218 BC and expelled the Carthaginians after the Battle of Ilipa in 206 BC". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 03:36, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• ..., together with the rest of the Iberian Peninsula... Delete.

Done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 22:07, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• The Visigoths defeated the Suebi... When?

The text now reads: "The Visigoths defeated the Suebi in 585...". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 19:55, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Iberian Peninsula" or "Iberian peninsula"?

It's the Iberian Peninsula, fixed that typo. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 22:22, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• ... most of the peninsula... I would specifically write of the lands what now form Portugal (which is the article's subject) instead of the whole peninsula.

The text now reads: "...by 716 the lands what now form mainland Portugal...". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 04:08, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• Explain Al-Andalus with two or three words.

It now reads: "...by 716 the lands what now form mainland Portugal were part of Muslim Iberian territories known as al-Andalus.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 08:18, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• ...fragmented into small states... Name them as taifas, but also introducing them as "small states" in order to introduce the name of the "Taifa of Badajoz" in the same sentence.

The text now reads "The Umayyads ruled al-Andalus until it fragmented into small states called taifas...". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 03:48, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• These were conquered by the Almoravids, who were in turn followed by the Almohads. These? When? Introduce the Almoravids and the Almohads as Muslim conquerors from North Africa.

The sentence now reads "The taifas were conquered by Muslim conquerors from North Africa, first completely by the Almoravids by 1115, who were in turn followed by the Almohads in the 1140s". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 23:37, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• It could have begun with the defeat of Umayyad forces at the Battle of Covadonga by Pelagius, a Visigothic nobleman, although the historicity of both Pelagius and the event remains unestablished. Delete (the article is about Portugal, not about debates about the beginning of the Recoquista).

Done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:08, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• ...was secured from the Moors... By whom?

The sentence now reads: "In 868, the region between the Minho and Douro rivers was secured from the Moors by Christian forces under Vímara Peres and constituted as the County of Portugal under him". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 23:01, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• I miss a reference to the kingdoms of Asturias and León when the establishment and early existence of the County of Portugal is discussed.

I added some context to the article: "The death of the Umayyad emir Abd ar-Rahman II in 852 brought an end to Umayyad efforts to extend authority northward.[47] The discovery in the 830s of a tomb believed to be that of James the Great gave the Christians a powerful patron, and the elevation of Alfonso III of Asturias in the 860s ended a period of uncertain leadership, thereby providing the command required to channel this energy into a wave of expansionism southward". Feel free to propose any changes you'd like to see in the text. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 23:38, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• ...the capture of Algarve... Introduce Algarve as the southernmost region of Portugal.

The phrase now reads: "...the capture of Algarve, the southernmost region of mainland Portugal, which was recognised by the Kingdom of Castile as Portuguese territory in 1267". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 21:48, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• ...which was recognised as Portuguese territory... By whom/which country/countries?

The phrase now reads: "...the capture of Algarve, the southernmost region of mainland Portugal, which was recognised by the Kingdom of Castile as Portuguese territory in 1267". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 21:48, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• ...the signing of the Treaty of Alcañices in 1297... Between whom/which countries?

The phrase now reads: "...the signing of the Treaty of Alcañices between Denis of Portugal and Fernando IV of Castile in 1297". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 21:56, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• In 1386, during the reign of King John I, Portugal cemented its alliance with England with the signing of the Treaty of Windsor, making it the oldest standing alliance in the world. From chronological perspective, the sentence fits to the next chapter.

Moved the sentence to the next chapter. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 22:15, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• The unpopularity of Leonor Teles, regent for her daughter Beatrice, wife of John I of Castile, triggered a crisis in 1383 compounded by fears that the marriage could lead to the loss of Portugal's independence. I would introduce the section with a sentence about the death of King Ferdinand I who left a daughter, Beatrice, as his heir before discussing the regency of her mother.

The new sentence reads: "After King Ferdinand I’s death in 1383, his minor daughter Beatrice became his legal successor under the regency of Leonor Teles". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 06:11, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• Introduce John of Aviz as an illegitimate brother of King Ferdinand.

The sentence now reads: "In 1385, John of Aviz, a royal bastard and brother of King Ferdinand I,...". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 05:14, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• ...by conquering Ceuta... Make a reference to North Africa.

The sentence now reads: "Portugal acquired its first colonies by conquering Ceuta in North Africa in 1415". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 21:33, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• ...its scientific advances... I would clarify that these were nautical innovations.

Initially I placed that, but as the source states on p. 37: "For more than one century, the designation 'Portuguese imperial science' simply meant 'Portuguese nautical science.'. However, on p. 39 it also states: "Yet, for all their many accomplishments, these historians and the intellectual tradition they established were restricted to a cognitive approach that omits cultural practices, social considerations, more institutional aspects, and material culture from the field of inspection. Much broader perspectives are required, for example, in the case of institutions. The needs created by the Portuguese empire led to the creation of new institutions..." The source also lists innovations in medicine and other fields, which led me to drop the word nautical. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:01, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

• Between 1519 and 1522, Ferdinand Magellan organised a Spanish expedition to the East Indies that completed the first circumnavigation of the globe. Delete: the article is about the country, not about people of Portuguese descent.

Done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 21:25, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

Borsoka (talk) 03:38, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

@Borsoka: Thank you so much for your review. I really appreciate the time and effort you have taken to do this. I hope I've successfully addressed all your points. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:16, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

@Borsoka: Any other concerns or follow-ups? GumballNine1Nine (talk) 16:45, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Hurricanehink

Seeing that I reviewed this before (and have an FAC of my own), I figured I should review, since it was in decent shape last time. The page has been in edit window in my browser for a few days, so apologies if any of these comments are outdated.

Lead

• "Portugal's internal waters and territorial sea together account for two-fifths of its territory, and its exclusive economic zone is one of Europe's largest, while its terrain contains a diverse range of landscapes and regional climates." - suggest splitting into two sentences

The text now reads: "Portugal's internal waters and territorial sea together account for two-fifths of its territory, and its exclusive economic zone is one of Europe's largest. The country's terrain contains a diverse range of landscapes and regional climates.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 17:15, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

• "As a result of the Reconquista against them, Portugal was established as a county of the Kingdom of León in 868 and formally as a kingdom in 1179. " - was it established as a kingdom as a result of the Reconquista? That's what's implied.

Yes, Portugal was established as a kingdom as a result of the Reconquista. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 07:55, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Shaped by the various civilisations that have inhabited its territory, such as the Carthaginians and the Romans Portugal developed a culture with a worldwide influence that allowed Portuguese to become the world's fifth-most spoken native language with more than 250 million native speakers." - too complex/confusing for one sentence.

The text now reads: "Shaped by the various civilisations that have inhabited its territory, such as the Carthaginians and the Romans, Portugal developed a culture with a worldwide influence. This allowed Portuguese to become the world's fifth-most spoken native language, with more than 250 million native speakers.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 17:35, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

Etymology

• "The word Portugal derives from Latin Portus Cale, a Roman name meaning 'port of Cale', itself the origin of the name of the Portuguese city of Porto, while Cale was a town on the Douro. " - I suggest splitting into two sentences

History

• "Celtic may have spread westwards" I've usually heard it as "Celts" or "Celtic people"

The phrase now reads "Celts may have spread westwards in Iberia in the latter 1st millennium BC.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 07:52, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

• "The Mediterranean coast was well known to the Carthaginians, whose close relations with Phoenician-Punic settlements on shared cultural ties likely gave them considerable political and economic influence there from the 6th or 5th century BC alongside the establishment of unequal treaties with Iberian city-states. " - a bit lengthy. I suggest something simpler like:

• "The Carthaginians developed close relations and shared cultural ties, likely giving them considerable political and economic influence there from the 6th or 5th century BC alongside the establishment of unequal treaties with Iberian city-states." - assuming this is accurate

The text now reads: "The Mediterranean coast was well known to the Carthaginians. Their close relations with Phoenician-Punic settlements and shared cultural ties likely gave them considerable political and economic influence there from the 6th or 5th century BC, alongside the establishment of unequal treaties with Iberian city-states". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 16:04, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

• "In 711, the Iberian Peninsula was invaded from the south by the Umayyad Caliphate, which expanded rapidly and by 716 the lands what now form mainland Portugal were part of Muslim Iberian territories known as al-Andalus. - suggest splitting in two, with the second one starting at "By 716"

The text now reads: "In 711, the Iberian Peninsula was invaded from the south by the Umayyad Caliphate, which expanded rapidly. By 716, present-day mainland Portugal was part of the Muslim Iberian territories known as al-Andalus.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 09:38, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

• I see in note g that says "Unlike popular belief". Is that covered in the source? Also, is the popular (incorrect) belief necessary to include?

I've placed this in the article because, even though the source does not mention it, the belief that a treaty was signed in Zamora is popular enough that almost everyone who is not well read on Portuguese history thinks it's real. It's even part of the commemorations for Portugal's upcoming 900th anniversary, a treaty that does not exist, because there are no records of a treaty signing in the first place. That said, I'm happy to remove it if this becomes a sticking point. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 16:15, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Throughout the 15th and 16th centuries, Portuguese explorers sailed the coast of Africa, establishing trading posts for commodities especially gold and slaves, explored the Indian Ocean and eastern Asia, established trade routes in most of southern Asia taxing most trade criss-crossing the Indian Ocean. - the verb tense should all be the same. It goes "sailed/establishing/explored/established"

The text now reads: "Throughout the 15th and 16th centuries, Portuguese explorers sailed the coast of Africa, established trading posts for commodities especially gold and slaves, explored the Indian Ocean and eastern Asia, and established trade routes in most of southern Asia, taxing most trade criss-crossing the Indian Ocean". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 03:17, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• "After the depletion of gold revenues, Portugal was left with a weak industrial base and backward institutional and educational structures, a condition exacerbated by Sebastião José de Carvalho e Melo, 1st Marquis of Pombal, who emerged as the country's de facto ruler in the aftermath of the 1755 earthquake and tsunami, a natural disaster that shook the kingdom and recognised as one of the worst to ever occur. " - this should be two sentences. Also, of course an earthquake "shook the kingdom".

The text now reads: "After the depletion of gold revenues, Portugal was left with a weak industrial base and backward institutional and educational structures. This condition was exacerbated by Sebastião José de Carvalho e Melo, 1st Marquis of Pombal, who emerged as the country's de facto ruler in the aftermath of the 1755 earthquake and tsunami, one of the kingdom's worst recorded natural disaster.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 02:05, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Pombal's failed industrialisation efforts, education policies that weakened human-capital formation, and expulsion of the Jesuits, reducing student numbers and contributing to Portugal's decline in literacy. " - the grammar could be stronger here. It's complex with a lot of clauses and phrases. Perhaps reorder like: "Portugal's literacy rate declined due to..." and then listing them.

The text now reads: "Pombal's industrialisation efforts failed, and his education policies weakened human-capital formation. The expulsion of the Jesuits reduced student numbers and contributed to Portugal's decline in literacy." GumballNine1Nine (talk) 01:53, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Pombal's instrumentalisation of the Inquisition for political purposes, helping to entrench an extractive system that outlasted his rule." - again, the grammar is poor here, with regards to subject-verb

The text now reads: "Pombal's instrumentalisation of the Inquisition for political purposes helped to entrench an extractive system that outlasted his rule.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 03:36, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• " Portugal's African colonial expansion [pt] culminated in the 1890 British Ultimatum" - since this is a redlink, perhaps link to Pink Map?

Portugal's African colonial expansion covers far more historical events than the Pink Map. Linking such a broad concept to what was essentially a diplomatic incident would be misleading (imagine linking the 2003 invasion of Iraq to the Azores Summit). The territories claimed in the Pink Map (those connecting Angola to Mozambique) were never part of Portugal. It was Portugal's expansion from Africa's coastline into the interior in the 19th century that ultimately led to the Pink Map, and it was the Pink Map specifically that led to the ultimatum. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 20:14, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• " led to political erosion and dealt a blow to the monarchy." - don't use colloquial phrases like "dealt a blow"

The text now reads: "led to political erosion and weakened the monarchy". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 02:34, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• " Indigenous peoples already second-class citizens,[140] saw limited improvements in living conditions further fuelled nationalist movements,[140][141][142] ultimately leading to the Portuguese Colonial War from 1961 [pt] to 1974." - too much for one sentence, or maybe it needs to be rephrased

The text now reads: "Indigenous peoples, already second-class citizens, saw limited improvements in living conditions. This further fuelled nationalist movements, ultimately leading to the Portuguese Colonial War from 1961 to 1974.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 02:44, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• "led Portugal to near civil war" - isn't this dramatic? How can a country get "near civil war"?

Long story short: the two years after a military coup that overthrew a dictatorship were not a smooth ride into democracy. (Just to give you an idea of how far things had slipped: in 1975 a group of disabled veterans and later another group of construction workers surrounded the parliament and held the entire government hostage for 2 days. (twice)) Portugal went through several failed coups and there was a real chance a Soviet-style communist regime could have been imposed. Those fears peaked with a failed coup by far-left officers inside the armed forces. If it had succeeded, it would almost certainly have triggered a civil war. As one source puts it: “... Frank Carlucci had said at the Commandos Regiment that there was a phone call from President Gerald Ford of the United States to the President of the USSR asking if the latter wanted a war in Europe, a call that supposedly led Brezhnev to telephone Álvaro Cunhal to stop supporting the 'revolutionary action' ...” (p. 238) GumballNine1Nine (talk) 08:22, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

• " The 2010–2014 Portuguese financial crisis resulted in an international bailout and intense austerity policies, causing lasting social impacts." - the bolded part is too vague IMO. What impacts?

The sentence now reads: "The 2010–2014 Portuguese financial crisis resulted in an international bailout and intense austerity policies, causing lasting impacts such as young adults’ employment insecurity.". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 03:02, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

I think it's still not on point. Hmm... maybe, we should say "(...)intense austerity policies, provoking strong protests and social unrest, but with a considerable economic recovery starting by 2016." What do you think? Cheers Tuesp1985 (talk) 00:10, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, although I think that info goes into too much detail about the crisis for a general overview article, and is therefore better suited to the article on the crisis itself. It also doesn’t add much that is new: austerity policies, provoking strong protests and social unrest, but with a considerable economic recovery is essentially what happens in most financial crises. I'm not even sure all of that is in the article, though I suspect it's somewhere there. What did catch my attention however was this: "Accordingly, findings from a previous crisis become even more relevant considering that the 21st century will most likely continue to be marked by global and cyclical macroeconomic instability" (p. 324). But since this is an article about Portugal, already over 8,000 words of prose, and the History section is already the largest, I chose not to include it. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 22:40, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

I don't think it goes into much detail, just an overall simple assessment of the what happened in the last 10 years, although the current wording is, in my opinion, very negative and presents only one side of the country's situation after the crisis. We could also remove it, like I proposed in my draft above, and only add the 2010-2014 crisis introduction. But, let's see what @Hurricanehink feedback is. As for the number of words, like other users pointed, surpassing the 8,000 words limit isn't a problem if the page is well presented and detailed in its information. Cheers Tuesp1985 (talk) 23:25, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

It mainly stood out to me because it was the end of the history section. Now, it almost feels out of place. Here's another thought. Since the preceding sentence was about Portugal joining the European Economic Community (EEC) in 1986, a logical next sentence would be that Portugal was one of the founding members of the Eurozone (1999). Gumball says that it's the longest section, and so the material needs to be weighed appropriately to its significance to Portugal as a whole. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:30, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

If the wording seems negative, it's because it is based on the conclusions of the research ("Portuguese families with emerging adults might be still recovering from the effects of the 2008 economic crisis, with children continuing to struggle to find secure and stable employment..." (p. 324)) and if you look at other sections of the article you'll find similar instances. Speaking for myself, I was shocked to find, for example, that Portugal has one of the world's highest prison suicide rates and that there are potentially human rights violations going on, among many other major problems that I suspect almost no one in Portugal know about. I'm glad I took on this project, because it was a real eye-opener on so many levels. If all of this sounds outlandishly negative even with all these sources saying so, then I'm afraid the problem doesn't lie in this article... GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:36, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

I'm Portuguese and this is my country, so none of this info surprises me. High youth unemployment has been a problem for decades (well before the financial crisis), Portugal has a high depression rate, everybody knows this over here, which explains the suicide rate, and the awful prison conditions are well known. My point about the wording goes in line of what @Hurricanehink said, that it feels out of place. If the issue of 8,000 words is really a concern to you, the Geography section, for example, seems too long in comparison with others, like economy or demographics. Maybe trimming a bit there (and move some of the current wording to the Geography of Portugal page) will give space to add more space for info in the history section. I'll await feedback. Cheers Tuesp1985 (talk) 00:51, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

Unemployment wasn't on the list of things I found shocking about Portugal. People are aware of that (heavens, even The Onion of all places poked around with it years ago.) What people are not aware of are what I believe to be extremely grave issues (for instance that one I talked about also there a huge difference between depression rate and allowing suicides to happen inside prisons to the point that it constitutes 30% of deaths, if you skim the article you'll realize that depression has little to do with this), and the reasons for that unawareness are very troublesome. That comment was meant to highlight this, hopefully this article can do its job and also make people realize that. Anyway, I'll look into your point, hopefully tomorrow. Thanks again for the suggestion. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 01:16, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

Again, not surprising, at least for me. The conditions of prisons in this country are well known, and this is something structural, even cultural. Just this week, the issue was news, with 55 deaths being reported in Portuguese prisons this year alone and with facilities being overcrowed, not to mention past reports of the government having to pay fines to the EU because of these conditions. When I say it's also a "cultural" problem, it's because there's the view in society of indifference and punishment towards inmates. Cheers Tuesp1985 (talk) 11:48, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

Geography

• "Portugal's land area is 92,225 km2 (35,608 sq mi), although Portuguese law defines the country's size as 156,597 km2 (60,462 sq mi) which includes about 64,000 km2 (24,711 sq mi) of ocean waters.[4][2]" - small/minor note, but could you have the references be in order? (ref 2 before ref 4)

Done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 15:30, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

• Portugal can be divided into four morphostructural units" - is there a link/explanation for the bolded word? It seems kinda random coming after Portugal's highest point.

I've moved the "Portugal's highest point is the summit of Mount Pico, located on Pico Island in the Azores, which rises to an elevation of 2,351 m (7,713 ft) above sea level" to the previous paragraph. As for the morphostructural units, the closest article I could find does not mention morphostructures. Since I'm a layman when it comes to geology, I added a citation that states the definition of morphostructure, just to be sure. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 19:48, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Its geological and geomorphological features are largely the product of the Variscan, responsible for the formation of the Hesperian Massif, and later the Tethys–Atlantic cycle, responsible for the remaining units." - since you mention the Hesperian in the previous paragraph, I suggest this part be included with the previous paragraph

Done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 03:49, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Regional tectonic processes affected mainland Portugal's morphostructural units differently, producing relief variations that subdivide the territory into ten regional geomorphological units shaped by the different regional impacts of the Cenozoic tectonics, regional asymmetries of climate in the Paleogene, Neogene, and Quaternary, and the varied response of different lithologies to tectonic activity and climatic variability." - too much for one sentence

The text now reads: "Regional tectonic processes affected mainland Portugal's morphostructural units differently, producing relief variations that subdivide the territory into ten regional geomorphological units. These units were shaped by the differing regional impacts of Cenozoic tectonics, climatic asymmetries in the Paleogene, Neogene, and Quaternary, and varied lithological responses to tectonic activity and climatic variability". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 03:03, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• "12,496 fires" - make sure all numbers followed by a unit are connected with a nonbreaking space, like "12,496 fires" (see edit window)

I believe it's done, but if you find any missed spots or mistakes, I'm also happy to fix those as well. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 17:22, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Upwelling occurs at the coast creating the Nortada, a summer wind along the coast" - wouldn't this be under the climate section, not biodiversity?

You're right. The phrase is now under the climate section. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 16:29, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

• I was expecting somewhere in the geography section to have a mention of the giant waves that hit Portugal, such as the largest wave ever surfed being in Nazaré, Portugal.

That topic is already mentioned in the sport section, as I thought it more appropriate there than in the geography section: "Portugal has several established sporting centres across the country, including the Algarve and Lisbon, which are international golf destinations and have hosted motorsport events such as Formula One and Grand Prix motorcycle racing, as well as Nazaré and Peniche, which are known for surfing and annually host the TUDOR Nazaré Big Wave Challenge and the MEO Rip Curl Pro Portugal, respectively." I didn’t mention anything about Nazaré's waves being the biggest, as the use of superlatives should generally be avoided. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 19:21, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

Government and politics

• "There have been trends towards autocratisation." - this needs explanation. I quickly googled and found this article saying the opposite, that Portugal's democracy has been strengthening. Even this article from a few weeks ago says "According to the authors, Portuguese democracy demonstrates not only institutional resilience in the face of the far right but also benefits from a diverse and active civil society capable of resisting potential episodes of autocratization."

The last article you mentioned also says that "additionally, the data shows a sharp increase in pro-autocratic mobilization since 2020. Portugal moved from very low levels of mass mobilization events supporting non-democratic forms of government and leaders who challenge democratic principles, or actions aimed at undermining the rule of law, free and fair elections, and freedom of the press in 2020, to levels approaching 2 by 2024, indicating numerous small-scale events.” I’ll also point out that UNESCO itself calls V-Dem "the world’s most comprehensive democracy ratings" There’s also a short explanation of this in reference 223 and in 222 states that: "The eight countries that are very close to becoming autocratizers are: Bulgaria, Cyprus, Namibia, Portugal, Russia, Sierra Leone, Sudan, and Vanuatu. Three of the eight countries are new on the Watchlist this year: Bulgaria, Portugal, and Vanuatu." Implying that Portugal is not classified as an autocratizer yet. It's on the watchlist. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 09:11, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

• "The Portuguese military budget in 2025 was estimated at more than $6 billion" - I noticed here the use of the dollar sign. Shouldn't the article use Euros, or at least have a conversion? Or if it's using USD, it should probably indicate that somewhere.

The NATO press release from which that figure comes explicitly states that NATO uses United States dollars (USD) as the common currency denominator. (p. 16) Since GDP is also measured in USD, it makes sense to display the military budget in the same currency to accurately reflect that it represents 2% of GDP. The text now reads: "The Portuguese military budget in 2025 was estimated at more than US$6 billion, representing 2% of GDP". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 15:49, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

Economy

• "Portugal has expanded the role of renewable sources in its energy sector, with renewables accounting for 35.2% of energy consumption" - as of when?

The text now reads: "Portugal has expanded the role of renewable sources in its energy sector, with renewables accounting for 35.2% of energy consumption, as of 2023 up from 21.9% in 2007 ...". GumballNine1Nine (talk) 15:29, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

Culture

• "Portugal's culture has developed due to, initially before its existence, the influence from various civilisations that have crossed Europe, especially the Mediterranean." - the "initially before its existence" feels out of place, and the sentence is a bit clunky to start off a section. I think the sentence would be stronger if it was just "Portugal's culture has developed due to the influence from various civilisations that have crossed Europe, especially the Mediterranean."

Done. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 01:55, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

• There are two parts where the images on both sides are squeezing the text (see WP:SANDWICH).

All the images in this section are now on the right. I'm happy to address your point if the problem still persists. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 12:54, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

The article is decent for a country article. Let me know if you have any questions about my review. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:48, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

Thank you very much for this review, really appreciate that you came back again. I’ll address those points as soon as I’ve finished with my prior tasks. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 19:54, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

Pending support, I'd just change the ending of the history section to something more significant. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:30, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

Support, I understand the rationale, thanks for explaining. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:43, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the support! I'll see you again in 2 days on Hurricane Jeanne. GumballNine1Nine (talk) 00:52, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

Map

Nominator(s): Noleander (talk) 23:46, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

Maps are ubiquitous in our lives: weather, politics, public transit, route-finding, outdoor recreation ... they are everywhere and they are a wonderful combination of utility and art. This is a level 3 Vital Article. As always, it takes a village: thanks to Pamzeis (GA review), YuniToumei (WP:RX), ARandomName123 (WP:RX), MSincccc (copy editing and PR), RoySmith (PR), A.Cython (PR), and GeogSage (expert cartographic advice and PR). Noleander (talk) 23:46, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• Signing on for a review. Comments to follow. MSincccc (talk)

A few initial comments

• Some maps depict imaginary regions or worlds. Examples include a map of Treasure Island in the 1883 novel by Robert Louis Stevenson, maps of Oz from the Wizard of Oz book series (1900 to 1920) by L. Frank Baum, and maps of Middle Earth in The Lord of the Rings (1937 to 1949) by J. R. R. Tolkien.[329]
  • Is there a way to avoid repeating the phrase "map(s) of"?

How about Some maps depict imaginary regions or worlds. Examples include the map of Treasure Island (1883) by Robert Louis Stevenson, the Land of Oz in the Wizard of Oz books (1900–1920) by L. Frank Baum, and Middle-earth in The Lord of the Rings (1937–1949) by J. R. R. Tolkien.

• Is it possible to mention treasure maps at least once, given how common a theme it has become in plots and portrayals?

MSincccc (talk) 15:20, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

Definition and etymology

• "It originated" → "It originates"
• "it may have stemmed" → "it may stem"
• "adopted broader definitions which included" → "adopted broader definitions that included" (restrictive pronoun)
• "A definition created in 1987 by" → "A 1987 definition by"
• In the late 20th century – following the advent of computers and interplanetary exploration – the cartographic community adopted broader definitions which included media other than paper and depictions of things other than the Earth, as in the brief 1976 definition by the cartographer Arthur H. Robinson: "a graphic representation of the milieu".[5]
  • Could this sentence be trimmed?

MSincccc (talk) 07:19, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Did all of the above, except "treasure maps" (the article already has a whole paragraph on fantasy maps; including mentioning "Treasure Island"; and I don't recall any cartography sources mentioning "treasure maps" ... tho they might). Noleander (talk) 13:12, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Applications

• "tourism-related maps" → "tourist maps"
• Link "road maps" on first mention?
• airplane traffic relies on aeronautical charts, and water traffic uses nautical charts
  • How about "air traffic"?
• Local or regional governments use maps for urban planning purposes such as designing roads, public transportation, housing developments, and green spaces.
  • How about ...use maps for urban planning, such as designing roads... or similar versions?
• We could link to unmanned aircraft.

MSincccc (talk) 16:46, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Did all the above, except kept link as Autonomous aircraft rather than unmanned aircraft because the former is a broader category that includes auto-piloted plans with human pilots in cockpit only for emergencies. Noleander (talk) 14:29, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

Publication and distribution

• "websites, file downloads, or sharing via online map databases" → "websites, file downloads, or online map databases" (parallelism)
• "the distance between the viewer and the screen" → "viewing distance"
• "the choice of distribution platform may determine" → "the distribution platform may determine"
• "whether a large amount of data may be included" → "whether large amounts of data can be included"
• "the device on which users will be viewing the map" → "the device on which users view the map"

Profession and regulation

• "that seek to advance and disseminate map-related knowledge by hosting conferences and publishing journals" → "that advance and disseminate cartographic knowledge through conferences and journals" or similar so as to trim the sentence
• "most nations maintain government agencies that are responsible for producing maps" → "most nations maintain government agencies that produce maps"
• "In addition to professional organizations" → "In addition to these organizations" (avoids repetition)

MSincccc (talk) 05:53, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

Did all the above. Thanks for, as Fowler wrote, docking the prolixities . Noleander (talk) 12:52, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

Society and culture

• Situations in which mapmakers deliberately try to mislead the audience include...
  • Drop "try to"?
• "based on the location of the requester" → "based on the requester's location"
• Link misinformation?
• A survey of 200 books in the fantasy genre in 2013 found that 34% contained a map.
  • How about "A 2013 survey..."? It can avoid the sentence being interpreted as "a survey of 200 fantasy books from 2013..."

MSincccc (talk) 14:32, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

@MSincccc - Did all of the above. Noleander (talk) 17:20, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

@Noleander Great. Let's see what we can accomplish this weekend. More comments tomorrow. MSincccc (talk) 17:38, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

Cartographic data

• "Remote sensing can collect data from various signals" → "Remote sensing collects data from various signals"
• The orthorectification process geometrically warps the imagery...
  • Could we drop "the" before "warps"?
• If that is not acceptable for the map being produced...
  • Do we need the phrase "being produced"?
• "Ideally, the accuracy of data and features in a map is communicated" → "Ideally, the accuracy of data and features on a map is communicated"
• by matching the locations of the landmarks with the corresponding locations
  • How about by matching landmarks with their corresponding locations or similar versions?

I hope that my suggestions are being useful. Let me know if I am being unnecessarily nitpicky. MSincccc (talk) 07:58, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

Did all of the above. Your suggestions are helpful: about half are clear improvements; the other half are subjective style choices (but are still useful). Noleander (talk) 13:30, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

History

• "In the 16th century, the accuracy of maps improved" → "In the 16th century, map accuracy improved"

Done. Noleander (talk) 13:53, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

• "in contrast to simply portraying" → "in contrast to portraying"

Changed one to "The applications of cartography expanded in the late 17th century with the invention of thematic maps, which focused on portraying a specific kind of data – such as rainfall or population density – in addition to (or instead of) portraying major geographic features such as rivers, mountains, and cities." This accurately reflects what the source say; let me know if it is still too awkward. Noleander (talk) 13:53, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

• "The applications of cartography expanded" → "Applications of cartography expanded"

Done. Noleander (talk) 13:53, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

• One of the most influential early maps was a map of the world prepared around 150 CE by the Greco-Roman geographer and scientist Ptolemy.[30][g]
  • Could we rephrase to avoid repeating "map"?

Hmmm. Cannot figure out how to avoid "map" twice. I changed it to "One of the most influential early maps was a world map prepared around 150 CE by the Greco-Roman geographer and scientist Ptolemy."

I think we'll settle for that unless others have a point to make. By the way, do we need "scientist" here or "the Greco-Roman geographer Ptolemy" works? We link to his article after all. MSincccc (talk) 17:28, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

Thoughts @Noleander? MSincccc (talk) 01:16, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

You can remove one of the occupations if you want. I included both because stating one or the other may mislead readers into thinking that he only had one specialty. But it is not a big deal. Noleander (talk) 01:19, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

No worries. It's fine as it is. Thanks for the explanation. MSincccc (talk) 07:33, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "European medieval society" → "medieval European society"

Done. Noleander (talk) 13:53, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc (talk) 04:34, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

Made changes for all of the above items. Noleander (talk) 13:53, 23 August 2026 (UTC)

Types

• Maps may also be produced as physical 3-dimensional raised-relief models which depict topography
  • A comma after "which", a non-restrictive clause?

Done. Changed to Maps may also be produced as physical 3-dimensional raised-relief models. Such models depict topography and can be made of vinyl, plaster, or papier-mâché. Noleander (talk) 14:17, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• display data as a set of distinct classes or categories.
  • Do we need both "classes" and "categories"?

I'd prefer to leave both terms. "Classes" are used by cartographers as the official term; but "categories" may help the reader understand what it means. For example, a map may show categories of languages, or categories of religions, or categories of tree-kinds. Noleander (talk) 14:17, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• A digital map is stored in digital form
  • Any way to avoid repeating "digital"? How about A digital map is stored electronically?

Done. Changed to A digital map is stored as computer data and is typically displayed on an electronic visual display such as... It is tricky because there are two Wikilinks right at the start, and both are important. Noleander (talk) 14:17, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• (people per square cm measured in the map) in all countries.
  • Not sure about this one. When do we use "centimeter" by the way?

The idea is to help the reader understand how cartograms work. Looking at the adjacent image File:China and Taiwan Population Cartogram Map.svg it shows how cartograms often have as small square that gives the "data per area". On that particular map, the small square shows 200M people per box. The sources have a hard time describing this concept, and they do not use the word "cm" or "centimeter". I cannot think of a better way to phrase it. I'm open to better wording. Noleander (talk) 14:17, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

How about would have the same population density (people per unit area on the map) in all countries? MSincccc (talk) 14:27, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Done. Noleander (talk) 14:33, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

I think that should be all for this section. MSincccc (talk) 17:16, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

Design

• None that should affect the article's prose quality.

Lead

• Specialized maps, called charts, are used for nautical navigation (nautical charts) and aviation (aeronautical charts).
  • Do we need the commas or could it be dropped?

Commas seem essential, to me, in that context because those 2 words are a parenthetical aside that could be deleted. But if you think they should be removed, say so and I'll do it. Noleander (talk) 14:17, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Bottom line

• That's it then. We've come to the end of yet another journey. I hope that I will return for another time this year.

I will support the nomination. Great work. MSincccc (talk) 17:07, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Bottom line

• Noleander That's all from me. I look forward to your response. MSincccc (talk) 08:31, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the detailed and helpful suggestions. Implemented or replied to all of the above. Noleander (talk) 14:17, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Society and culture

• Maps can play a role in boundary disputes between nations.
  • Could we drop "can"?
• Countries may use maps during negotiations as tools
  • Could "may" be dropped here?

It might feel awkward to return here after a fortnight, but a couple of comments popped up in my mind. Best, MSincccc (talk) 17:45, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

Done. Did both of the above. Noleander (talk) 20:16, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

Design (Projection)

• For maps that cover large parts of the globe (but not the full globe), common projections include Lambert azimuthal and Miller cylindrical.[133]
  • Is there any way to avoid repeating "globe"? I tried to rephrase it as "For maps that cover large parts of the world (but not the full globe)" or "For maps that cover large regions (but not the full globe)", but you would know best. MSincccc (talk) 03:01, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Yes, that is not a great repetition of words. I like the "world" option; I have put it in the article. Thanks. Noleander (talk) 03:08, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

History

• The rise of nationalism in the 19th century was reinforced by maps,...
• Has this got anything to do with this article? Or would it be incorrect to link it as such? MSincccc (talk) 17:00, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Good question. I took a look a the sources, and they seem to cover the whole world, not just Europe. So a better link would be Nationalism or the section of that article at Nationalism#History. The map article already has al link to Nationalism, so leaving it as-is is probably the best option. Noleander (talk) Noleander (talk) 19:59, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

A.Cython

The article has certainly improved since I last read it during PR. Nice work. I have some prose suggestions that may want to have a look.

• Make sure you have a single space between sentences or words. [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:27, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• Unlike paper maps, interactive maps permit users to interactively zoom → Unlike paper maps, interactive maps let users zoom [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• Because the amount of geographic data available is often more than can be effectively displayed → Because the amount of available geographic data often exceeds what can be effectively displayed [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• is an area where maps are used → utilize maps [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• maps are found in → maps appear in [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• that were later analyzed for reconnaissance purposes → later analyzed for reconnaissance [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• many polar → many of which are polar [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• for the purpose of relating → to relate [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• some distortion → distortion (avoid subjective characterizations) [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• Example maps that illustrate these techniques are in the thematic maps section below. → Example maps illustrating these techniques appear in the thematic maps section below. [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• (e.g. distance add comma before "distance" [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• The design and layout of the text is a major factor → The design and layout of the text are major factors [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• users that may → users who may [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• to GDP → to the GDP [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• Examples are a climate map that divides the region into 15 different climate zones, or a map that divides the region based on 20 different religious affiliations. → Examples include a climate map that divides a region into 15 climate zones, or a map that divides a region based on 20 religious affiliations. [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• Typically, number of → Typically, the number of [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• is used to refer → refers [Done (two places). Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• The interactions may permit users to select which kinds of features to display, obtain details about individual objects → Interactive maps permit users select which features to display, view details of individual objects [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• for the sake of achieving → to achieve [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• were not modelled english or american spelling? [Done. Changed to US spelling with one "L". Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• query a database and ask for railway [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• from one form to the other → from one form to another (the other is not defined) [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• metadata of the data (we can safely assume that it is implied) [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• provide the ability for → allow [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• include a maps → include a map [Done. Noleander (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2026 (UTC)]
• A.Cython(talk) 22:13, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

  @A.Cython - Thanks so much for the helpful suggestions. I implemented all of them. Noleander (talk) 23:30, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

  Well I do not anything else. Great work for a vital article. Support from me as PR and reviewer on prose. A.Cython(talk) 00:21, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

Vacant0

I'll take a look at this before the end of this week. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 12:57, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

Lede

• "which enables users to find their way to their destination" why users, why not humans?

Some maps are used by robots, drones, spacecraft, computers, etc. In those situations, no human is "using" or "reading" the map ... 100% computer. Noleander (talk) 12:58, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Definition and etymology

• When reviewing the Genocide GAN, I was introduced to MOS:WAW. Basically, the word genocide was italicised where it was first introduced to readers. Do you think MOS:WAW should also apply at "The word "map" first appeared in English around 1527 CE."?

Good question. MOS:WORDSASWORDS permits italics or double-quotes when an article mentions a "word as a word". But MOS:FOREIGN says that italics should be used for foreign language words. To avoid confusion that readers might experience when seeing italics, the convention used in this article is to use double-quotes for "words as a words" and use italics only for foreign words. Noleander (talk) 12:58, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

• why is "The meaning of "map" depends on the context." cited to pp. 798–800, 806–808, § "Map".? This is a short and simple sentence. I think that one page range is alright for this sentence. Do you agree with me?
  • To be honest, this seems to occur in the rest of the article. I'm not sure why. Can you give me an explanation for this?

WP guideline WP:WHYCITE states that citations may be included to perform a variety of functions. Purposes may include: (a) enable reviewers to verify compliance with WP:Verifiability; (b) to benefit readers by providing various insights or nuances about the underlying fact; and (c) to help future editors locate sources if the article needs to be expanded or revised. Function (a) is the function GAN and FAC reviewers are focused on; but functions (b) and (c) are legitimate and encyclopedic. Within this article, the convention used is that the first source (when there are 2 or more) is the source best suited for function (a). Noleander (talk) 13:23, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

• Don't know about you, but some of these people in the article are not familiar to me, and I assume, for many of the readers of this article. I usually just put their occupation before their name (e.g. Erwin Raisz → (the) cartographer Erwin Raisz) to clarify who they are.
  • You seem to do this in #Antiquity to 14th century and #Layout and hierarchy.

Done. Added occupation to several persons. The convention for this article is to identify the occupation of named people. Noleander (talk) 13:25, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Applications

• No issues.

History

• No issues. Well written.

Design

• neatline seems to be a jargon.

It is an important term used by cartographers ... granted it is not often seen outside that specialty. Is there a change you would suggest for the article? Noleander (talk) 13:27, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

• "An example of a modern map with an unusual orientation is this tourism-oriented map of the Blue Ridge Parkway, which is a 755 km (469 mi) long road that runs diagonally from southwest to northeast. The map's top is to the northeast." seems to be cited to a primary source (if I'm correct). I'd like to see a secondary source backing this sentence up.

Done. Removed that paragraph. I tried to find 2ndary sources, but could not. Noleander (talk) 13:29, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Cartographic data

• No issues.

Types

• No issues.

Publication and distribution

• No issues.

Profession and regulation

• No issues.

Society and culture

• No issues.

Images

• While they might be useful, I think that there are too many images in the article.

I understand your concern, and I'm aware that MOS:IMAGEREL says "... not every article needs images, and too many can be distracting or cause undue weight: usually, less is more." I think everyone can agree that map is an article that requires a lot of images to illustrate concepts and terms to readers. I believe that every image in the article complies with the guidance of MOS:IMAGEREL which says "Images must be significant and relevant in the topic's context, not primarily decorative. Each image in an article should have a clear and unique illustrative purpose and serve as an important illustrative aid to understanding the subject." Are there specific images that you feel are "primarily decorative"? Noleander (talk) 13:41, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Sorry for taking so long, I usually don't review very long articles. But this was a very interesting read, therefore it was worth it! I'm not a native English speaker but I try my best. I think that the article perfectly explains what a map is, how they work, how are they created, what do they contain, etc. I want to soon work on Autumn, my most favourite season of the year, therefore this could serve as an inspiration for me. Cheers, Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 12:44, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

@Vacant0 - Thanks for the excellent feedback. I've implemented improvements to address several of the issues you noted; and I replied with explanations on some others. If you see any additional issues, or have any questions, let me know. Noleander (talk) 13:44, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for your quick responses. I'll support this nomination as a prose reviewer. My concerns have been addressed. Regarding the number of images in the article, I think that they're all illustrative and are useful, it's just that there's too much of them in the article. Nevertheless, I'll leave this to the image reviewer to decide, whether the current number is okay or should it be trimmed down. I wish you luck on getting this article to FA status. Cheers, Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 14:04, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

BQ

• Such a thorough article, well done! I probably won’t do a full review; I just have one question for now. In the Cartographic data section, I see a list of geographic data used for mapmaking. Does it really need a list format here? Could this information be presented concisely in prose, unless the individual items need to be distinguished or compared? BorgQueen (talk) 17:19, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  @BorgQueen - Done. That's a good suggestion ... I converted that list to prose. This nomination could use another review, for sure, so if you can find the time, it would be very much appreciated. Noleander (talk) 17:42, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• Auxiliary elements section, last paragraph: "dog-headed people" can be linked to Cynocephaly. Also, "terra incognita" will need a brief gloss per MOS:NOFORCELINK. BorgQueen (talk) 19:29, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Done. Noleander (talk) 20:31, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• Publication and distribution: Vector formats include SVG, PDF, Shapefile, and AI. — Not technically wrong, but… SVG, PDF, AI are vector graphics formats while Shapefile is a GIS vector data format. Grouping them together without any kind of distinction is potentially misleading to readers who are unfamiliar with the difference, IMO. What do you think? BorgQueen (talk) 19:45, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  If you agree, I suggest something along the lines of… Common vector formats include SVG and PDF, while geospatial vector data may be distributed in formats such as Shapefile. BorgQueen (talk) 19:57, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Done. Used your suggested wording. Noleander (talk) 20:31, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• (same section) When a map is distributed as a downloadable file, the choice of file format is important because each format has unique characteristics. — too vague ("unique characteristics" says basically nothing). This sentence doesn't earn its place unless it actually specifies what characteristics they are (compression, editability, etc.). If the source discusses that, it should replace this clause. BorgQueen (talk) 22:33, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Done. Removed mention of "unique characteristics". Now reads " When a map is distributed as a downloadable file, a file format must be selected." The sources do describe some pros/cons of various formats, but readers are better off reading those details in other articles, where context can be provided. Noleander (talk) 00:38, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

• (same section) Publicity, advertising, and outreach can increase audience reach — "reach… reach" is redundant (audience reach already means how far something spreads). How about: "can expand the audience" or "can increase visibility", or something along those lines. BorgQueen (talk) 22:42, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  BTW, is this sentence necessary at all? I think it is rather common sense that publicity and ads increase/expand the audience. BorgQueen (talk) 22:47, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

Done. Removed the sentence. Noleander (talk) 00:40, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

• (same section) The publisher may choose to host the map data on its own server or use a commercial server. — only a minor issue, but "commercial server" is somewhat broad. A more technically specific term would be "commercial hosting service" or "third-party hosting service". BorgQueen (talk) 22:55, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  Done. Changed to "commercial hosting service" with that phrase wiki-linking to Internet hosting service. Noleander (talk) 00:46, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

• Colors and patterns: […] users prefer colorful maps — I believe it should be "many (or most) users". Some of them are color-blind, you know. BorgQueen (talk) 08:02, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Done. Noleander (talk) 12:19, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

• (same section) Unofficial color conventions used in some maps are: — "some maps" is painfully vague. Is there any way to narrow it down? Like, specific countries or continents? Or specific periods? BorgQueen (talk) 08:08, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Done. Changed to An example of color conventions used in some government-produced maps in the US are ... Noleander (talk) 12:19, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

• Coordinate system: Horizontal datums are categorized as ellipsoidal or projected. — I hope I am getting this right as I am not familiar with the topic, just relying on Googling… but "Horizontal datums are categorized as ellipsoidal or projected" seems to conflate datums with coordinate systems. Ellipsoidal (geographic) vs. projected is a distinction between coordinate systems, not datums, correct? Then "projected" isn't a kind of datum. BorgQueen (talk) 11:33, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

  Yes, you're right: that can be made more clear. Horizontal datums and horizontal coordinate system are very closely related, but are distinct. Defining coordinate systems and datums is rather complex, and I was trying to simplify it for lay readers. I'll make it more precise. Noleander (talk) 12:26, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

  Done. Made a few changes to make the article clearly separate "Horizontal datum" from "coordinate system". The key sentence now reads: A coordinate system is either a horizontal datum (an ellipsoid) or a projected coordinate system. Projected coordinate systems specify horizontal locations as XY Cartesian values in units of meters or feet (rather than degrees), and are thus sometimes more convenient to use than ellipsoidal systems. Noleander (talk) 12:42, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

• Bias and disinformation: In some cases, these inaccuracies are introduced intentionally; in others, they are an inherent consequence of the fact that maps simplify and symbolize reality. — As I understand, a copyright trap isn't really an "inaccuracy" in the ordinary sense. It is deliberately false information inserted into an otherwise useful map. (An inaccuracy is generally an unintended error.) And simplification isn't necessarily an inaccuracy either. I'd make the terminology broader: Some of these departures from geographic reality are intentional; others are inherent consequences of simplifying and symbolizing geographic information. BorgQueen (talk) 14:05, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

  Especially since the preceding sentence says: As a result, every map contains some degree of inaccuracy, distortion, or omission. Omission and inaccuracy are two very different things, therefore calling them in the next sentence "these inaccuracies" is misleading. BorgQueen (talk) 14:14, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

  Done. Used your suggested wording. Noleander (talk) 14:18, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

• (same section) Situations in which mapmakers deliberately mislead the audience include advertising, development planning, military disinformation campaigns, and political propaganda. — development planning? If the source explicitly says this, fine, but development planning itself isn't necessarily an activity in which mapmakers deliberately mislead, is it? If the source means maps that are manipulated in development disputes or planning contexts, that distinction might need clarification. BorgQueen (talk) 15:57, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Done. The "development planning" topic is covered in chapter 7 of Monmonier 2018 (pp. 85-87). I reworded to "Situations in which mapmakers deliberately mislead the audience include ... applications for controversial urban development projects." Noleander (talk) 17:12, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

• (same section) Peters presented the Gall-Peters projection – an equal-area projection – as a more equitable alternative. — "more equitable" is a normative characterization. Not a problem if explicitly attributed to Peters, but otherwise the sentence can sound as though Wikipedia is endorsing the projection's political merits. I suggest a more neutral wording: Peters presented the Gall-Peters projection, an equal-area projection, as an alternative that he regarded as more equitable. BorgQueen (talk) 16:15, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

  Done. Good catch. Changed to use your proposed wording. Noleander (talk) 17:15, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

• Do you think the Extraterrestrial section could/should mention Celestial cartography? BorgQueen (talk) 20:40, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

  Yes, that is a good idea. I added this new sentence:

  Astronomers map the location of stars and other celestial objects with star charts, some of which incorporate distance from earth as a third dimension.

  Noleander (talk) 22:00, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

References

• Maps of planets, moons, stars, asteroids, and comet nuclei have been produced by astronomers since the invention of the telescope. — Lunar maps actually predate the telescope; these were based on naked-eye observations. (Source: See p.125) If the sentence simply means maps of extraterrestrial bodies using telescopic observations, then it is fine, but as written it implies extraterrestrial mapping began with the telescope. How about: Astronomers have produced maps of extraterrestrial objects for centuries, with telescopic observations enabling increasingly detailed maps of planets, moons, asteroids, and comet nuclei. … or something along those lines. BorgQueen (talk) 01:49, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

Done. Changed to use suggested wording. Also, changed the title of that subsection from "Extraterrestrial" to "Astronomical" because "Extraterrestrial" is not used much by sources. Unfortunately, sources do not use a single, dominant term for non-earth maps, but "astronomical" and "celestial" are both used. Noleander (talk) 12:23, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

• Topological section: An early schematic map was Tabula Peutingeriana (archetype 4th century[209]) – a visual itinerarium that aided travelers by depicting roads and towns, while disregarding geographic accuracy. — I really had no idea what it meant by archetype (which reminded me of Jungian psychology) in this context, so I had to do some research. Apparently, the surviving Tabula Peutingeriana is a medieval manuscript copy, generally dated to c. 13th century. The "archetype" or underlying Roman road-map tradition is dated to Late Antiquity… This needs some clarification for lay readers; "itinerarium" could use a gloss too, per MOS:NOFORCELINK. BorgQueen (talk) 17:06, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

  Done. Changed to: An early schematic map was a 4th century Roman visual itinerarium (travel guide) that aided travelers by depicting roads and towns, while disregarding geographic accuracy. The original version was lost, but is preserved as the Tabula Peutingeriana – a copy made c. 14th century. The current map is a copy of a copy of a copy, but I'm not sure the map article needs to go into that kind of detail. On the other hand, it could say "a distant copy" instead of "a copy" Noleander (talk) 17:37, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

• 15th to 19th: The applications of cartography expanded in the late 17th century with the invention of thematic maps that focused on portraying a specific kind of data – such as rainfall or population density – in addition to (or instead of) portraying major geographic features such as rivers, mountains, and cities. — "in addition to (or instead of)" feels a little essay-like and unnecessarily wordy. BorgQueen (talk) 19:56, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

Done. Changed to: The applications of cartography expanded in the late 17th century with the invention of thematic maps that focused on portraying a specific kind of data – such as rainfall or population density. with an efn explanatory footnote at the end of that sentence that says Thematic maps may also portray some geographic features. Noleander (talk) 21:28, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

• 20th century to present: In the early 20th century, maps were widely used for propaganda to promote territorial claims and to exaggerate threats from perceived enemies. — if the source supports it, naming the actual mechanism (e.g, maps distorting scale/proximity?) would be stronger than the vague abstraction (without going into excessive details, that is). BorgQueen (talk) 18:48, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

Done. Changed to In the early 20th century, maps were widely used for propaganda by nations such as Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany to promote territorial claims and to exaggerate threats from perceived enemies. Cited to Riffenburgh p. 138. Noleander (talk) 20:28, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

• While we are at it, the section name probably needs to avoid "present" per MOS:NOW — Except on pages that are inherently time-sensitive and updated regularly (e.g. the "Current events" portal), terms such as now, today, currently, present, to date, so far, soon, upcoming, ongoing, and recently should be avoided in favor of phrases such as during the 2010s, since 2010, and in August 2020. BorgQueen (talk) 18:53, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

I believe the guidance in MOS:NOW is aimed at wordings that (while accurate when originally written) might become erroneous over time. That guidance contains exceptions for " .. since.." or " ... beginning ...". That guidelines does discourage the term "present" in a couple of examples, but the context is in material such as " ... she is the current director...". It is common for History sections of articles (covering topics that are ongoing into the 21st century) to have the most recent History subsection named something like "1990 to present". For example, in the History of Gibraltar (a Featured Article) there is a section named British rule (1713–present). And History of American football (a Featured Article) has a section named Modern, post-merger NFL (1970–present). MOS:NOW explicitly approves of "since", so if the word "present" must be eliminated, the subsection name could be changed to "Since 1900" or similar. Let me know if you want that change, and I'll do it. Noleander (talk) 20:28, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

Very well. Let’s leave it as is then. BorgQueen (talk) 21:12, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

• Besides, the section only talks about the changes/innovations up to the "latter half of the 20th century". Anything to add about what happened in the 21st? BorgQueen (talk) 18:59, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

Yes, interactive maps on mobile devices became widespread in the 21st century. That section currently says Geographic information systems (GIS) allowed vast amounts of geographic data to be dynamically displayed on computer screens, so users could interactively zoom, pan, and choose which data to view. I'll expand that sentence to include mobile map apps and indicate a timeframe. Noleander (talk) 20:28, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

Done. Noleander (talk) 13:31, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Support. BorgQueen (talk) 20:42, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Source and image review

Image placement is fine. File:Puerto Rico-VI TAC.pdf, File:Ortofotomapa Asturias 2010-CARRENO.pdf and File:GeoName Web app Paris.png have broken sources. Do the sources of File:MTN50-0535-2013-cns Algete.jpg and File:Screen Shot of the colombian postal codes 2022-07-10.png have a licence statement somewhere? And I can't find it for File:Everest-3D-Map-Type-EN.jpg. File:Babsonglobe2008.jpg needs the copyright for the object/globe. Given how broad the topic is I won't try to review by comprehensiveness although most sources seem to be US based. Van Nostrand seems to link incorrectly. Didn't notice anything else but didn't do a spotcheck. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:25, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

@RoySmith: - Can you assist with File:Puerto Rico-VI TAC.pdf? You graciously uploaded that to Commons for me to use in map, but the source URL is broken at https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/07-09-2026/PDFs/Puerto_Rico-VI_TAC.pdf Noleander (talk) 13:33, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus @Noleander Ugh, that's a mess. I updated the Source field on commons to explain what's going on. Hopefully that's good enough to satisfy the licensing requirements. If not, ping me and I'll see what else I can figure out. I suppose if it was necessary, I could download the most recent version to replace what's there now, and force an upload to Internet Archives, but that really seems like busywork to me :-) -- RoySmith (talk) 13:49, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Heh, I didn't even know this was possible. I just manually uploaded a copy of the PDF to IA and connected it to the old URL. That should be good enough, I expect. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:06, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: - Thanks for the review, and identifying some shortcomings. I'm working on them now. Noleander (talk) 13:34, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• Regarding image File:Ortofotomapa Asturias 2010-CARRENO.pdf : that originated in a Spanish government source at https://ideas.asturias.es/ I validated that source URL a couple of months ago. That website is not responding today ... I'm not sure how long that website has been down: days? weeks? I looked in Internet Archive and it does not have archives of the source URL. I'll check again tomorrow. But I'm 100% sure that the source is (was) valid, although the Spanish government may have subsequently removed it from the web. Noleander (talk) 17:31, 1 October 2026 (UTC)
• Regarding image File:GeoName Web app Paris.png - That image was obtained (by me) a few months ago at https://www.geonames.org/maps Since then, GeoNames overhauled their website ("We've launched a new version of this site. Some pages may look and behave a little differently while we finish the transition — thanks for your patience. "). The map is now at https://www.geonames.org/2988507/paris.html I updated the Commons page to show the new source URL. Noleander (talk) 17:41, 1 October 2026 (UTC)
• Regarding the image File:MTN50-0535-2013-cns Algete.jpg: Yes, the commons page has license info from the source, presented in the Commons page here. That license info includes URL to the Spanish government website https://www.ign.es/resources/licencia/Condiciones_licenciaUso_IGN.pdf which states:

... in the event that the geographical information is not modified or altered original digital, the general expression will be used: «<product identifier> <date> CC-BY-4.0 <attribution of producers>», in which the labels <product identifier>, <date> and <attribution of producers> shall be replaced by the corresponding values in the table of products, which is found on the website published for this purpose: http://www.scne.es/products.html As in: BTN25 2014-2015 CC-BY 4.0 ign.es

Noleander (talk) 17:47, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• Regarding file File:Babsonglobe2008.jpg, that image does not have decent licensing information from the artist of the sculpture/art, so I removed the image and replaced it with File:Moscow SHM asv2019-06 img17.jpg ... this new image has a good license from the photographer; and there is no need for a license for the globe itself (as an artwork) because the globe was built in the early 1600s. Noleander (talk) 18:04, 1 October 2026 (UTC)
• Regarding image File:Everest-3D-Map-Type-EN.jpg - The Commons has valid licensing info. The author is Tom Patterson, and their license statement (in the source URL) says "The maps on this page are in the public domain. You may use them any way you like, including modifying the content, digital and print reproduction, and selling them for profit. Consider these maps as yours." That is reflected in the Commons page where a CC0 license is indicated. Noleander (talk) 18:10, 1 October 2026 (UTC)
• Regarding image File:Puerto Rico-VI TAC.pdf - Roy Smith took care of that. As he explains above: the Commons page was updated to explain how the source frequently changes its website file names; and also put a copy in Internet Archive (and put a link to IA in the image Commons page). Noleander (talk) 18:16, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• @Jo-Jo Eumerus: - I believe all the image issues have been addressed (see details above) by either fixing them, or giving an explanation. Thanks again for the review. Noleander (talk) 18:18, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Daher al-Umar

Nominator(s): Al Ameer (talk) 18:33, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

This article is about Daher al-Umar, who carved out a prosperous local autonomy in northern Palestine in the 18th century. He established stability and monopolized Palestine's booming cotton trade with the French. He and his family reinvigorated and developed northern Palestine's towns and villages, restoring Acre, Haifa, Nazareth and Tiberias after centuries of decline. The local population boomed and immigrants from around the empire, including many Christians and Jews, were encouraged to settle. The last 5 of Daher's 45 years in power were intense, as he allied with Egypt's own strongman, Ali Bey, and Russia against the Ottomans. His territory extended from Jaffa to Sidon and east of the Jordan. At 85, he was finally eliminated by the sultan's men. His family's rule was then destroyed by the new sheriff in town, Ahmad Pasha 'the Butcher', who carried Acre's success to new heights.

Started on this 11 years ago. Passed GAN in 2015 and peer reviewed that year. I have revised it considerably since and expanded/created several subarticles about his family, the military campaigns, the architectural contributions, etc, and trimmed the fat to keep article focused. Prose still clocks out at 65KB, but I'm content with where it is. The article relies on the key modern studies of Daher (Rafeq 1966, Cohen 1973, Philipp 2001, Joudah 2013, and Yazbak 2013) with many supporting sources. Hope everyone enjoys the read. Al Ameer (talk) 18:33, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• File:Egypt_and_Syria_1768_to_1774_map_en.png: see MOS:COLOUR. Ditto File:Map_of_Zahir_al-Umar's_domains,_c._1772.png. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:33, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

I have requested help with this (and conversion to svg format) at the Graphics Lab. Will update here as soon as it's completed. --Al Ameer (talk) 22:09, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria: I took the map that I created/uploaded, File:Map_of_Zahir_al-Umar's_domains,_c._1772.png, to the Graphics Lab and recolored it to make it MOS:COLOUR-compliant and this is the resulting map: File:Daher al-Umar phases of expansion.svg. Noleander has informed me it's still not MOS:COLOUR-compliant, but I'm not sure how to make it so without adding some 'inelegant' labels to the map itself.

As for the other map, File:Egypt_and_Syria_1768_to_1774_map_en.png, which I didn't create and whose original creator/uploader is no longer active, it was accepted as the lead image at Russian occupations of Beirut, a relatively recent Featured article, and I was hoping it can similarly be accepted for this FA nomination.

Please let me know your thoughts. --Al Ameer (talk) 12:48, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

To be clear, I'm requesting exceptions for these maps; if this can't be accomodated, then will go back to the Lab and others to see what can be done. Thanks. --Al Ameer (talk) 12:51, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Labelling isn't the only potential way to address COLOUR issues - it can also be done through patterning or use of shades that can be distinguished in greyscale. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:53, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

@Al Ameer son If no one at the graphics lab has responded in two days, let me know and I can add labels to the maps. It's usually not very ugly after the labels are added. Noleander (talk) 00:38, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks Noleander. I just opened another thread at the Graphics Lab. I rather like Nikki's suggestion (patterning or shades distinguishable in greyscale) if workable but am not opposed to your suggestion for labels, though I wonder if the maps will appear overcrowded with text with that method. In either case, I'll update you if I don't receive feedback from the Graphics Lab in the next 48 hours. I appreciate all your help on this nomination. --Al Ameer (talk) 13:13, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Here is an example of a map where I added text labels: File:Climate_Africa_Koppen_with_legend.svg. Hatching or patterns is possible only if the image is in SVG format and the regions are defined as polygons. Not sure if that is the case with the Daher maps. Noleander (talk) 13:16, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Hello @Noleander: It doesn't look like I'll be getting the necessary assistance at the Graphics Lab. If you're still up for it, please go ahead and revise the maps to meet MOS:COLOUR. I'm not opposed to text labels if this is your preferred route, but my concern is overcrowding as the maps already contain significant amount of text. If it's an option and you are able and up for it, I'd prefer just using colors with sufficient contrast that can be distinguished in grayscale (not patterning). Either way, please let me know. I appreciate the time you've already spent on this issue. --Al Ameer (talk) 18:53, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

I can try the vary-lightness approach on one map, because it is SVG format. The other map is PNG format, and I only have the skills to apply text overlays to that one. I'll upload both to Commons. Noleander (talk) 20:25, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

I uploaded the revised SVG map into Commons and put it in the article. Feel free to revert it. The colors are limited because that map has black text labels on top of the colored regions, so I was not able to use the darker part of the lightness spectrum. So it is not fantastic. Noleander (talk) 20:31, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

I also uploaded the revised PNG image (it now has an SVG suffix), and put that into the article. Feel free to revert if you don't like it. Noleander (talk) 20:46, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

@Noleander: Thanks for your map revisions.

The text labels added to File:Egypt and Syria 1768 to 1774 map en with region labels.svg look great to me; however, can you switch out "Umar" with "Daher" on the map for better name recognition?

On File:Daher al-Umar phases of expansion colorBlind version.svg, I have a couple comments:

1) the narrow coastal strip extending from Sidon to Tyre was left out (to be consistent with the revised version, this narrow strip should be shaded in the lightest green instead of the light brown);

2) @FunkMonk: responding to your comment below, I wasn't aware (or perhaps I forgot) that you're partly color blind. Are you saying that this revised map (with the shades of green) doesn't satisfy MOS:COLOUR? If so, what's your recommendation and would you be able to implement such recommendation to spare Noleander further headaches?

Once this issue is nailed down, I'll revisit with Nikkimaria for final comment and completion of Image review. --Al Ameer (talk) 15:22, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

If Noleander is happy with it, it should be fine, the nuances seem different enough in these versions for me. FunkMonk (talk) 16:43, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

@Al Ameer son - I changed "Umar" to "Daher"; and I fixed the green color on the narrow strip. To see the changes, you may need to flush the image cache on your device/browser. Noleander (talk) 17:08, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks again Noleander.

@Nikkimaria: How are we looking now with Image review, after the recent mods to the maps to make them MOS:COLOUR-compliant? I also added the following images to article since starting nomination:

1. File:Ioppe - Bruyn Cornelis De - 1714.jpg
2. File:Portrait of Abdülhamid I of the Ottoman Empire.jpg
3. File:Jezzar Pacha condemning a criminal, sketch by Francis B. Spilsbury. Edward Orme (1803).jpg

Thanks, --Al Ameer (talk) 18:12, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

The Portrait needs a US tag, then it should be good. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:00, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Done, thanks Nikkimaria. --Al Ameer (talk) 02:07, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Comments from Noleander

• Two separate thoughts? "Although he was mostly overlooked by historians of the Middle East, some scholars view Daher's rule as a forerunner to Palestinian nationalism." The two parts of that sentence are connected by the word "although" indicating that the latter part should (somewhat) contradict the former. But it is not opposed, and in fact they seem like two independent thoughts. Consider breaking into two sentences (or re-word to justify the "although").
  • I see the supporting quote: "However historians may look at Shaykh Zahir al-'Umar and his movement, he is highly respected by the Arabs of the East. In particular the Palestinians consider him a national hero who struggled against Ottoman authority for the welfare of his people...". The word "however" in that quote is not used in the sense of contradiction/opposition; instead it is used to mean "the manner that" or "regardless of the ways that".

• @Noleander: Thanks, revised this whole section. Al Ameer (talk) 19:35, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• Wording: "Daher al-Umar al-Zaydani ... was the paramount sheikh of the Zayadina family and strongman of northern ... " That is in the very first sentence of the Lead.
  • The word "strongman" is provocative, and may have negative connotations. It should only be used in the article if 2 or more neutral sources use it to describe Daher. Do they? If not, consider a more encyclopedic alternative word: sheikh, chieftain, dictator, autocrat, despot, tyrant, etc
  • The word "strongman" is rare, so it should be either (a) defined in the article via parenthesis or footnote; (b) linked to Political strongman but only if that article is appropriate for Daher; or (c) linked to strongman entry of Wiktionary.

• Understood. 'Strongman' was my own use and, upon review, it's not reflective of the sources. 'Ruler' is by far the most common one-word description of Daher used by the sources (Cohen, Philipp, Joudah, Yazbak, etc). Replaced accordingly. Al Ameer (talk) 20:48, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• Wording/dates: "Daher was born in c. 1689–1690."
  • When "circa" is used, "in" is not. So remove "in".

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 20:48, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• • I'm not an expert in "circa" usage, but it seems to make more sense with a single year e.g. ... c. 1689 .." The word "circa" already implies some leeway.

• See next response. Al Ameer (talk) 20:48, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• • Alternatively, if the sources are certain it is one of those two years, then eliminate "circa" and write " ... was born in 1689 or 1690."

• Agree, tweaked it. Al Ameer (talk) 20:48, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• Orthography: ".. after years'-long negotiations ..." Google says the apostrophe does not belong, and better spellings are "years-long" or "yearslong".

Tweaked (and learned something new) Al Ameer (talk) 20:48, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• Occupation of source: "In the late 19th century, the Palestine Exploration Fund's Claude Reignier Conder wrote that the Ottomans had successfully destroyed the power of Palestine's indigenous ruling families who "had practically been their own masters" but had been "ruined so that there is no longer any spirit left in them". The occupation "Palestine Exploration Fund" is odd. Would it be better to say "British Army officer"? Or Middle east explorer?

• I think it's more relevant to mention the Palestine Exploration Fund in this case, but I can revise as "Palestine Exploration Fund officer Claude Reignier Conder wrote", if you agree. Al Ameer (talk) 20:48, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

It is okay to leave the sentence alone. I was just asking if there were any better alternatives. I defer to your judgement. Noleander (talk) 22:12, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• • Also: why is the citation for that sentence to the source Schölch, Alexander (1984) and not to a book written by Conder?

• Regarding the map mentioned above in image review (namely File:Egypt_and_Syria_1768_to_1774_map_en.png ) it does indeed have color issues for color-blind readers. The map was originally uploaded by a Commons user in 2018 (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Don-kun ) but their last activity there was 2022. They were on English WP at User:Don-kun. The original uploader could easily change colors, or convert to SVG. But if they are not active, it may be hard to contact them. You could try to send an email to them if they have that enabled.
  • If no one has converted the image to SVG by about 10 September 2026, let me know, and I can add text labels to the map to solve the color-accessibility issue. That solution would be a bit inelegant (adding "A" to the red lines; "B" to the green lines, etc) but it is better than removing the map entirely from the article.

Yes, this is very useful map. I clearly do not understand the MOS:COLOUR guidelines but I will see if the Graphics Lab can help with this. To be clear, is the issue the red and green colors specifically? Al Ameer (talk) 20:48, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

@Al Ameer son - MOS:COLOUR says that colors cannot be the only way to convey information to readers. In the context of maps: that means if regions (or lines) are color-coded, then there must also be some textual alternative. For an example, in my article Nile within section Nile#Geological_history there is an image here that used colored regions, and I added textual letters as a supplement to the colors ("CCR" etc). That made the map comply with MOS:COLOUR. It is easy to add text over any image (PNG, JPEG, TIFF, etc); but it is best to use SVG for many. many reasons. If no one adds text to your images in a week or two let me know and I can do it. Noleander (talk) 22:06, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• @Noleander: I made a request to the original uploader to change the colors to comply with MOS:COLOUR and/or to convert it to SVG. Two questions: 1) if the uploader is inactive can we still convert to SVG? 2) would changing the colors to become color-blind compliant suffice or must we textually label the lines and shades? On the latter point, I'm concerned textual labels would indeed be 'inelegant'. Al Ameer (talk) 19:35, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• Another image with color-blind issues is File:Daher_al-Umar_phases_of_expansion.svg. Fortunately, that image is SVG format, so it should be easy for anyone to fix.
  • I see that image was uploaded recently in 2026, by WP user @Cmglee: I'm sure they can quickly add text labels to the regions so that color-blind users can connect the legend to the map0-regions using text (rather than color).

• Yes, this was the original map that I created/uploaded: File:Map of Zahir al-Umar's domains, c. 1772.png. Nikkimaria raised the issue of MOS:COLOUR so I revised the color scheme but apparently I do not understand the policy. Cmglee converted the revised map as an .svg. I will ask if they can make the change satisfying this guideline. Al Ameer (talk) 20:48, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

See my reply above about how to remedy COLOUR issues. Noleander (talk) 22:08, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• Article size: is 10,554 prose words. Per WP:SIZERULE, that is above the 9,000 suggested goal. Personally, I think articles over 10,000 words are hard for many readers to digest. On the other hand, neither WP nor FAC have made the 9,000 size mandatory. Also, this article doesn't have many (any?) sub-articles, so that argues in favor of a larger size.

• A big part of my recent contributions here were to reduce the size, including trimming any fat or unnecessary words and creating subarticles to shift over large blocks of text. The subarticles were Zayadina for his family and their rule and descendants, Sieges of Tiberias (1742–1743) for 'Confrontations with Damascus', Syrian campaigns of Ali Bey, 1770–1773 and Battle of Lake Huleh (1771) to reduce 'Zenith', Siege of Jaffa (1775) and Ali al-Daher for 'Downfall'. It's unlikely I can bring it down to 9,000 words and be happy with the result. However, I will try to at least trim it from 10,500 to 10,000 words or below over the next couple days. Al Ameer (talk) 20:48, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

@Al Ameer son - Don't trim the size on my account .. it is not a bar to FA, in my opinion. This issue comes up in FAC frequently, and there has never been a ruling that "FA articles must be under 10K [or 9K]". However, if another reviewer objects to the size, be prepared to trim or persuade them (e.g. no sub-articles available, etc). Noleander (talk) 22:10, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• @Noleander: Thanks for the advice. I trimmed some 450 words since 8-21, and believe the article is better for it. Al Ameer (talk) 19:35, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• Quotes are within-body-text block quotes, which are preferred over box-quotes, so that is good.

• Categories are alphabetized: Not required for FA, but shows nice attention to detail.

• Prose: So far, very professional. A bit dry for my tastes, but that is due to the nature of the topic, not the writing style. I'll point out any prose issues I can find (but I'm not a great copy-editor).

• MOS compliance looks good overall: Not seeing any major issues.

• Explanatory footnotes have citations, which is good to see.

• See also: Gigi and Bella Hadid: American models, claims descent from Daher al-Umar through their father, Mohamed Hadid
  • "claims" -> "claim" ?
  • If it is an uncertain/disputed claim, probably should not be listed in an FA article, since that would lend credence to the claim.

• Clarified (it's not disputed, their paternal grandmother was a direct descendant of Daher, a member of the Daher or 'Dhawahri' family of Nazareth) Al Ameer (talk) 20:48, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Show Ref Check" tool warnings:
  • Cohen 1973, p. 50, 50 note 77.
  • Haddad 1967, p. 39, 41. P/PP error? p. 39, 41.;

• Fixed both citations. Al Ameer (talk) 20:48, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• That is all for now. Ping me when you have considered the above items. Noleander (talk) 12:11, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• @Noleander: Thanks for taking the time to review this nomination. I addressed most of your points, but still working on a couple, including the color-blindess compliance of the maps. I will update you with progress. Al Ameer (talk) 20:48, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

  Let me know when the map issues are resolved, and I'll look again. Noleander (talk) 17:13, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

  @Noleander: Bringing the maps in line with MOS:COLOUR is beyond my technical expertise and I'll have to take you up on your offer to revise them, if that's still on the table. Note, regarding the first map, I was unable to get a response at the creator/uploader's talk page but I noticed that the map is used as the lead image in the relatively recent featured article Russian occupations of Beirut and wonder if we can likewise make an exception here?

  Regarding the second map, File:Daher al-Umar phases of expansion.svg, note that I created the original version and changed the original color scheme to the current one in a bid to satisfy MOS:COLOUR; the Graphics Lab then converted it to .svg format. Can you clarify if we can simply change the color scheme to meet the guideline or if we must add text to the map itself, which I agree would be 'inelegant'? --Al Ameer (talk) 16:54, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

  I suggest that we let the FAC image reviewer make the decision. Not sure who that will be yet, but when someone volunteers to review the images, they will decide if the images are okay or not. Within the FAC community there is not yet strong consensus on if maps must comply with MOS:COLOUR or not. Historically, there are lots of articles that achieved FA status without their maps complying. On the other hand, MOS:COLOUR is key to ensuring that WP articles are accessible to color-blind users. If the image reviewer says that text must be added to the images to comply with MOS:COLOUR, I can do it at that time. Noleander (talk) 16:59, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

  @Noleander: I'll ping the image reviewer shortly. Pending their feedback on my request for an exception to MOS:COLOUR for the 2 maps, are there any outstanding items to address? Do you otherwise feel confident supporting this nomination? Thanks --Al Ameer (talk) 12:27, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

I happen to be colour-blind, and while I'm of the red-green kind, I can see how some of the green nuances are a bit close to each other and to grey that it could create problems. I'd say just make the colours as different as you can from each other so they're not just different shades of the same colours, but really saturated primary colours, and it should be easier. FunkMonk (talk) 23:01, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Second pass

• Map color issues: waiting for image reviewer

• Why are sources named (and sometimes quoted) so much in body text? Article names sources about 40 or 50 times, such as:
  • ... established to foster his sheikhdom's prosperity and survival were "security and justice", according to Joudah ...
  • ... European merchants and their "manipulation of the prices", according to Joudah.
  • ...and survival were "security and justice", according to Joudah.
  • According to Rafeq and Joudah, Hasan Pasha was "not interested" in the success of the negotiations...
  • ... of the political status "he hitherto enjoyed informally", according to Joudah
  • According to Crecelius, Daher and Ali Bey considered their "fates mutually dependent" and hoped to "consolidate their position in Palestine" for Ali Bey to...
  • Ali Bey was "the rallying point of his allies", in the words of Rafeq, and Daher "was politically and militarily embarrassed" by his loss, "in spite of the fact that the weakened 'Ali Bey ...

Ideally, a great encyclopedia article is written almost entirely in the encyclopedia's voice. The article should summarize high quality secondary sources. Naming sources and quoting from sources is permitted, but it should only be done if there is a good reason, such as:

• The fact is controversial or contentious
• The source may be biased
• Two sources have opposing interpretations, and the article is presenting both
• The quote is a famous quote
• The quote is very special in a poetic or dramatic way

If none of those cases apply, the editor should generally paraphrase the source and simply state the facts in the encyclopedia's voice. In the green text examples above, they seem to be plain facts, so it is not clear why the article is naming the source. Consider going thru the 40 or 50 places where sources are named, and deciding if each source must be named. Convert to encyclopedia's voice where possible.

• Done. Noleander (talk) 12:52, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

  Great point Noleander. I removed/revised 26 or 27 instances in the article body.

  The quotes or direct attributions which I've kept largely meet the above criteria where the article presents divergent assessments or accounts as in the sections 'Alliance with the Metawalis' and 'Assessment'. Most quotes or directs were kept in 'Legacy' but these are appropriate IMO.

  Most others are instances of useful contemporary bits, like from the French consular reports, the Acre wall inscription (blockquote), Mariti's observation (blockquote), and the oft-referenced quote by M. Sabbagh about the safety in Daher's territory of the traveling old woman holding gold.

  Let me know your thoughts, and excuse the delayed response, as I only noticed this comment last night. --Al Ameer (talk) 16:13, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• Support on prose and MOS. I have not done an image review or source review. The article still has quite a few quotes from historians and others, but it looks like most of the quotes are consistent with WP guidelines. Noleander (talk) 17:12, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

  Thanks for your support, Noleander, and for dedicating the extra effort and time to help get the article to where it is now. I'll try to respond about the maps under Image Review by end of day or tomorrow worst case. Al Ameer (talk) 17:43, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Jens

In general, an excellent article. A lot of names are introduced and for me it was quite impossible to keep track of them all; however, I could still follow the text even though I occasionally forgot who was who.

• However, the first paragraph of the "Family and early life" seemed especially heavy to me. A lot of names and terms are provided here. Maybe not all are needed?

• Thank you for reviewing and for this particular advice. In addition to a general condensing of the text, I removed several names of 'non-recurring' or non-critical characters, mostly in this section but also throughout the article. There are some frequently recurring characters with the same given name, i.e. Uthman Pasha al-Kurji (governor of Damascus), Uthman Pasha al-Wakil (supreme army chief HQ'd in Damascus), Uthman (Daher's son), where my solution was to use 'Uthman Pasha' for the governor, 'Wakil' for the army chief, and 'Uthman' for the son. Open to suggestions. Likewise, there is frequent recurrence of Daher's son 'Ali' and the ruler of Egypt 'Ali Bey', and I use 'Ali Bey' for each mention of the ruler. Al Ameer (talk) 20:07, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• Relating to the above, I think that some more background information would have helped: Stating in the body that Daher and his territory was part of the Ottoman Empire; mention Constantinople and Damascus as government centers of the Ottomans, and maybe add a brief explanation of how rulers within the empire could be so independent. I think that something like this would help the reader to understand the article.

• Great suggestion. Let me know if my revisions suffice. I'm trying to keep the context (along with everything else) concise, but can elaborate further, if necessary. Al Ameer (talk) 20:20, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• Sa'd consequently moved the family to Arraba – Because he feared revenge? Could be specified

• Made clear it was to avoid repercussions; the source doesn't allow me to go further than that. Al Ameer (talk) 20:07, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• While the contemporary Rukayni and the near contemporary Mikha'il Sabbagh – elsewhere you specify "historian", but not here?

• Thanks, specified that both were chroniclers (at least in this capacity), added Rukayni's full name (starting article about him soon) and replaced "contemporary" and "near contemporary" with their death dates. Al Ameer (talk) 02:10, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• 2,000 men,[98] He took – should be a full stop.

• Fixed. Al Ameer (talk) 20:20, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• Daher also built a two-story square tower, the Burj al-Salam (Tower of Peace), which remained intact until the 1970s.[238] The remains of his saray became the site of Haifa's Sail Tower.[239] – Is the tower part of the saray? So Israel destructed the site, or was it incorporated in the tower complex?

• The tower is separate from the saray and different location. The saray was demolished by the municipality, along with surrounding structures (except the mosque), and replaced with the Sail Tower in 2002. Al Ameer (talk) 20:20, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• Image caption: "The walled harbor town of Haifa, founded and fortified by Daher, 1839" – Maybe specify "background" as the city is a bit difficult to see?

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 20:20, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• That's all I got. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 17:10, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• @Jens Lallensack: I have to run now, but will finish my responses to you later today or tomorrow. Thanks again. Al Ameer (talk) 20:07, 26 August 2026 (UTC)
• @Jens Lallensack: Finished, and looking forward to your feedback. --Al Ameer (talk) 02:10, 28 August 2026 (UTC)
• Support. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 04:42, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

Coordinator note

This nom has been stalled for multiple weeks and has attracted limited support. Unless it there is considerable movement towards a consensus to promote over the next few days I am afraid that it is likely to be archived. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 21:30, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks @David Fuchs: It hasn't recieved as much attention as I would've liked but I'll try to stir some eyes to it and hope we can get the nomination on track before decision has to be made. --Al Ameer (talk) 12:55, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Update: I've reached out to a few users who reviewed one of my earlier FA nominations for a similar figure, Fakhr al-Din II, and left queries at the Palestine, MilHist, and Ottoman wikiproject pages. If possible, I'd appreciate a little extra time to allow for some responses to these requests. Thanks, --Al Ameer (talk) 16:31, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

FM

• Support - I reviewed the GAN more than ten years ago, and after reading it again, it seems to have only improved since. I have some minor comments below that do not really affect its overall status. FunkMonk (talk) 06:56, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• I think it could be clearer that whenever there was a conflict with various pashas/aghas/beys/governors, it was with the Ottoman Empire, and I'm not sure most casual readers would be aware of that now. Perhaps by saying "Ottoman governor" or something like that, and/or explanatory footnotes/parentheses?

• Point well taken. I added "Ottoman" to the first instance of governor in the body and may pepper more in but trying to avoid redundancy. Technically, of course, every person in this story is an Ottoman subject.

• Could link Palestinians in the article body too.

• Done.

Al Ameer (talk) 16:25, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• On my screen, the image above and left of the title "Confrontations and respite with Damascus" clashes with it, perhaps move it one paragraph up or right align it and left align the image below it to prevent that?

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 16:25, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• I rabbit-holed a bit while reading the article and came across the former village of Hunin, which has the remains of a fortress built by Daher on top of a Crusader castle, perhaps interesting to show a photo of it under "Development", where you mention fortresses he built in Galilee.

• I'm hesitant to include images of the forts of Hunin, Tibnin and other villages that Daher never directly controlled. I think the original sources for these claims, namely the 19th-century Survey of Western Palestine, erroneously attribute these fortifications to Daher or his family, when they were built by the local Shia (Metwali) sheikhs who actually controlled them throughout the 18th century; in fact Tibnin and Hunin were the historic headquarters of different Metwali feudal families at this time, who were rivals/allies and later vassals of Daher. Even in territory directly controlled by Daher in the Galilee, a handful of the well-known forts or fortified villages predated Daher or were built by other local (non-Zaydani) sheikhs but often get attributed to Daher. --Al Ameer (talk) 16:25, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• On a similar note, I'm a sucker for images, and there are long, non-illustrated stretches in the middle and end of the article that can feel a bit like a "wall of text". Perhaps something could be added to spice it up? Places, people or objects of relevance?

• Will do. I wish we had some decent images of the main characters of the later periods like Ali Bey and Abu al-Dhahab but we don't. I might add a sketch of al-Jazzar who plays an increasingly active role toward Daher's end. Maybe a painting of 18th-century Jaffa would be a good addition too. Al Ameer (talk) 16:25, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Under "Administration you say "This official was always a Melkite" then "he replaced Sulayman Suwwan, a Greek Orthodox Christian", though I think the word Christian should be moved back to after Melkite, as most readers will know what a Greek Orthodox is without specifying further, but probably not a Melkite.

• Clarified (also note at first introduction of the word 'Melkite' in the article, I added in parantheses '(Greek Catholic)'. Al Ameer (talk) 16:25, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• "As he exited the city, Daher's Maghrebi mercenaries opened fire on him and a bullet struck his neck, knocking him off his horse... "formal evidence of the elimination of one of the sultan's most tenacious and persistent rebels", according to Crecelius." do we know whether these mercenaries were rewarded or pardoned, or whatever happened, and their motives?

• The section offers the two main narratives but both basically end with Daher's Magrhebi captain of his Maghrebi mercenaries turning on him; this is the implied reason why the mercenaries shoot and kill Daher on his attempt to escape Acre. I'll check the Haddad source because he offers more (narrative) details of Daher's final day and will add further color on the motive if available. Al Ameer (talk) 16:25, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Gigi and Bella Hadid: American models and descendants of Daher al-Umar through their father, Mohamed Hadid." while I know the daughters are probably more widely known, it feels a bit odd to list the father last when he even has his own article (and is of course a generation closer)?

• True, revised. --Al Ameer (talk) 16:25, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

@FunkMonk: Thanks for your support and suggestions. Please see responses to each point above. Al Ameer (talk) 16:25, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Looks good, give me a ping if the images get added! FunkMonk (talk) 22:57, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

@FunkMonk: Thanks, I added what appears to be a 'live' drawing of al-Jazzar in his court in Acre (1800) and an early 18th-century sketch of Jaffa, which is as contemporary as I could find. There's better paintings from the late 19th century but maybe too far from Daher's lifetime. --Al Ameer (talk) 12:11, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

plus a 1788 portrait of Sultan Abdul Hamid I, who voided his predecessor's tentative concessions to Daher. --Al Ameer (talk) 17:54, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Borsoka

• ...a small family... Do we need the adjective?

• Not really, more details about the family itself can be found at main article Zayadina. Deleted. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• His brothers were multazims in the Lower Galilee. Consider deleting the text.

• I don't mind deleting this but it may provide context for remainder of section which refers multiple times to "Zaydani sheikhs". At any given time during this period there were multiple sheikhs from the Zayadina who were engaged as multazims/tax farmers in different districts of the Galilee, incl. Daher's father, uncles, brothers, cousins. Let me know your thoughts. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• ..., which was centered in Constantinople Consider deleting the text.

• I added this to directly address a point raised in this FAC that a general reader wouldn't be aware that Constantinople would refer to the Ottoman imperial capital, so this was a way to introduce it to the text. I condensed it now to read as "... a province of the Constantinople-based Ottoman Empire." Let me know if it works. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Due to the military weakness of Sidon... Sidon? I would introduce the eyalet's Ottoman governor here.

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• ..., who maintained their own power bases Consider deleting the text.

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• ...they were nominally subordinate to the Ottoman governor and... Consider deleting the text. I assume the reference is to Sidon's Ottoman governor.

• Done Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• ...the governor frequently struggled to assert authority over the Zaydani sheikhs I am not sure that I fully understand the text in context. Did they deny pay the taxes due to the governor?
• ...the Zaydani sheikhs... Sheikhs (in plural)?

• Yes, see my response to your second point above. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• ...to mitigate their liability I am not sure that I understand the text.
• In 1707, Daher was entangled in a brawl, killing a man from Tiberias...In Arraba, Daher ... learned how to ... fight... Contradiction?

• Not necessarily.

• ...defending the village of Bi'ina from the governor of Sidon ... I assume this is a reference to an attack/raid/siege by the governor.
• The wealth their father and uncles had previously generated from trade financially enabled the Zayadina to obtain their tax farms. I think this text is an explanation for the family's tax farming business, introduced in a previous paragraph.
• ...seal control over areas he captured and... Delete to avoid repetition the same info in subsequent sections.

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• The extension of Daher's rule southward toward Nazareth and the adjoining wide plain of Marj Ibn Amer between the Galilee and Jabal Nablus, through which the Damascus–Nablus trade routes passed, was a drawn-out process and the precise dating is unclear Consider splitting/trimming/shortenning this long sentence.

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• ..., their ostensible junior partner,... Delete.

• Done Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• ...for over a quarter century starting in 1725... Rephrase to be concise: "since 1725".

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Sulayman Pasha's successor, his nephew As'ad Pasha al-Azm (r. 1743–1757), did not act against Daher. The following fourteen years were characterized by peace between Daher and Damascus, partly because As'ad Pasha was dissuaded by his uncle's unsuccessful experience and preoccupied with domestic affairs. Consolidate the two sentences into one to shorten the text by at least 30%.

• Done (I think) Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Husayn Pasha had replaced As'ad Pasha, and among his priorities were subduing Daher. This should be the paragpraph's first sentence.

• Done Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• ...Sultan Mustafa III (Osman III had died on 30 October) Rephrase to be concise: "the new sultan/Osman III's successor, Mustafa III"

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• ...the predominantly Twelver Shia hill country... Delete.

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• ...were referred to in the sources... What sources? (Perhaps "were known as/called"?)

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• While the chronicler Haydar Rida al-Rukayni (d. 1784) and the chronicler Mikha'il Sabbagh (d. 1816)... Rephrase to be concise: "While the chroniclers..."

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• ..., which he dominated during the preceding two decades Delete.

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• ... and/or... Rephrase it.

• Done (or). Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• In a testament to Daher's power by this point,... Delete.

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• ...including now the Jarrars, who dominated the hill country around Nablus. The Jarrars defected to Daher in protest of Muhammad Pasha's promotion of their enemy, Mustafa Bey Tuqan Consolidate the text to be concise.

• Done (I think). Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• With the Jarrars' backing, Daher attempted to expand his influence to Nablus, the commercial center of Palestine, and its agriculturally-rich hinterland. Toward the end of 1771, he besieged Nablus. Consolidate the two sentences to be concise.

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• ...considered their fates intertwined and... Delete.

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• With this came an end to the alliance that politically and economically aligned Egypt and Palestine for the first time since the early 16th century. While their attempts to unite their territories failed, their rule posed the most serious domestic challenge to Ottoman rule in the 18th century. Consolidate the two sentences to be concise (for instance, the text "While their attempts to unite their territories failed" seems superfluous in an encyclopedic article). Borsoka (talk) 09:57, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Proto-Siouan language

Nominator(s): ThaesOfereode (talk) 02:14, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

It's hard enough to reconstruct what the United States looked like before first contact, but another still to reconstruct its intangible linguistic landscape. Thanks to the tireless work of those like Albert Gatschet, James Owen Dorsey, John R. Swanton, and Robert L. Rankin, all of whom collected countless of hours of work with the last speakers of languages now long dead, what the New World looked like from a linguistic perspective is a little clearer. I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Kasak on this topic, who kindly provided me a more-or-less lost resource and some guidance, while working on getting it to GA. Now, I feel this article is ready for the FAC gauntlet. ThaesOfereode (talk) 02:14, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

Kisseran

Glad to comment on more historical linguistics content. I'll preface this by saying that for a linguist, I am not familiar with Amerindian languages at all, but I will mostly comment from the perspective of someone who is otherwise informed in linguistics. For the more technical sections, this is probably your intended audience.

Thanks for dropping a line here, Kisseran. As usual, your insight is appreciated; comments below. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:31, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

Starting with the lead:

• between 3000 BC and 2000 BC before splitting off into the Eastern and Western Siouan languages — this is ambiguous between two interpretation: was Proto-Siouan spoken throughout the millennium, with the split securely dated to 2000 BC, or was Proto-Siouan spoken before splitting off into Eastern and Western branches, which took place some time within the millennium?

• The former. Reworded. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:31, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• their presence in and around Appalachia is supported by toponymic and onomastic data. — as a non-American, it was slightly disorienting to figure out that Appalachia and the Ohio River Valley are largely overlapping regions. I don't know if this is a real problem though. I was mostly surprised that the Iroquois extended further south than I'd thought.

• Hm, I hadn't considered that that overlap wouldn't be more-or-less clear by itself. Any suggestions on clarification? And yes, the Cherokee are an Iroquoian people mostly native to western North Carolina. It's quite the journey from the Finger Lakes. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:31, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

I think a map in the lead would certainly help, if you can get ahold of a good one. Otherwise I can't think of a suggestion. If I could, I would have mentioned it. Kisseran (talk) 14:17, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• each distinguishable by length — I would say something like "each distinguishing length" or "each distinguishing long and short variants" because the current wording can also be interpreted as each of the vowels being different in length from each other.

• Good catch. Went a middle path here. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:31, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• distinguished between at least two tones

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:31, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• It has been reconstructed with — I would be consistent with either saying the language had feature X or has been reconstructed with feature X, unless its alignment and word order are particularly controversial among the other features mentioned in the lead.

• I'd say alignment and word order are the most secure grammatical reconstructions. Reworded. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:31, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• fairly complex — this is a bit vague. If it is noted as complex, then I would just say complex. Otherwise, I think that judgment can be left to the reader.

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:31, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• using sound symbolism, phonesthemes, and apophony — I'm not sure what sound symbolism and phonesthemes have to do with morphophonology.

• Oi, embarrassing for me. Reworded. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:31, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• as ways of conveying semantic meaning — I'm tempted to invoke POSA and say that if these were used with no apparent meaning, then that would be worth mentioning. If you leave it in, perhaps opt for a more succinct phrasing like "to convey information".

• Great point that I came to independently while working on another comment above. Great minds, right? ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:31, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• linking the family with the Yuchi language — "the family" as in Catawban or Siouan?

• Kind of both? One model places it as a third prong on the Siouan–Catawban tree, another considers it a second prong on the Catawban tree. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:31, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• have largely been met with criticism

• Y'know, I see this construction every once in a while and I don't think it's grammatical. I would say that "XYZ film met with critical praise" not "XYZ film was met with critical praise", though I cannot for the life of me conjure up a linguistic explanation for it. My best explanation is that "XYZ film meets with critical praise" is much better than "XYZ film is meeting with critical praise". Wiktionary seems to prefer this one too, though lists one with "be" as an alternative, though (I think?) for a different sense than I'm intending. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:31, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

That is a curious judgment indeed. Perhaps there is influence from "encountered"? In any case I think the easiest solution here is to just omit mention of criticism in the lead here, since that can be reasonably inferred from its lack of acceptance. Kisseran (talk) 14:17, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

Needless to say, this is an expertly crafted article, so most comments will be minor nitpicks. More to come. Kisseran (talk) 03:36, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words. Looking forward to the coming comments. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:31, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

Continuing on:

• The interrelatedness of the language family — I would suggest either "The interrelatedness of the Siouan languages" or "The language family", since languages in a language family are interrelated by definition.

• I think I've found a middle path here that works. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:37, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• most-widely recognized members, the Sioux — this phrasing doesn't really make sense to me because the members of language family are languages, not people

• Would most-widely recognized ethnolinguistic group work better? ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:37, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

Yes, that would make more sense to me. On second thought it is a rather difficult concept to convey. Kisseran (talk) 05:15, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• the Great Plains of the United States and Canada — perhaps clearer as "the Great Plains of North America" or just "the Great Plains", since a reader who hasn't heard of the region might be led to assume that there are two different regions named the Great Plains in the US and Canada.

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:37, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• In 1816, the work of the German scholars — I would omit "the work of" here, or, if publication is dated significantly differently from the work itself, rephrase as "In an 1816 work,"

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:37, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• described the relationship between Catawba and Woccon — described as what? the sentence afterwards implies that the description wasn't in a phylogenetic sense. Also, using the term "phylogenetic" to describe work done in 1816 or 1836 seems anachronistic to me, since (phylo)genetics did not meaningfully exist in 1836 in either biology or linguistics.

• Rephrased. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:37, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• built significantly

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:37, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• it is difficult to estimate the number of languages spoken, as — or rephrase it the other way around, but this is currently redundant

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:37, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

Kisseran (talk) 14:17, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

Onto Origins:

• a methodology developed by the American linguists Morris Swadesh and Robert Lees — so glottochronology? I don't know how I feel about the section not making it clear that the glottochronology of Swadesh and Lees's era are now mostly regarded as obsolete and misguided. If the secondary sources are particularly limiting on this matter, I would at least mention of dates of these studies as context.

• No, you're right; Rankin makes it pretty clear it's bunk science. I've just deleted Grimm's and Headly's analyses.

• commonly-derived — this is also ambiguous with the reading "frequently-derived"

• I thought about this for a while and can't really think of a better phrasing for this. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:23, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• 'corn' — I wouldn't use quotation marks here.

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 17:44, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• must precede its introduction — is this worded this strongly in the cited source? there's obviously the somewhat unlikely but conceivable possibility that the term was lost.

• Yeah, Rankin kind of echoes your thoughts. Rephrased. ThaesOfereode (talk) 17:44, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• agricultural techniques related to its cultivation — as opposed to other kinds of techniques related to its cultivation?

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 17:44, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• agricultural effort — this phrasing doesn't sit right with me. would "crop" work?

• Tried something else. Source seems to imply that it's agriculture at this time but doesn't specify. ThaesOfereode (talk) 17:44, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• Mississippi Valley Siouan was beginning to split into its subfamilies — this is particularly pedantic but I would rephrase into something like "varieties of Mississippi Valley Siouan began to diverge", since it's not really splitting into a subfamily but splitting into languages that eventually split into more languages in turn.

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 17:44, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• For example, the Dhegihan languages adapted a borrowed term from the Southeast – perhaps from a Muskogean language – with a suffix; this nominal suffix, *-se, was reanalyzed in several languages by folk etymology to -zi meaning 'yellow'. — I don't see any indication of dating in this example, so it is unclear to me how this example relates to the dating of the split.

• Serves just to explain that we know they don't share a term for it, but the explanation is a little long so I cut it down. ThaesOfereode (talk) 17:44, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

Is the Dhegihan term supposed to be for the same concept as the Ho-Chunk term discussed immediately afterwards? Just saying "a borrowed term" without mentioning what it means is strikingly vague to me. Kisseran (talk) 05:15, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, the paragraph break made it more ambiguous than intended. Clarified. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

Kisseran (talk) 15:10, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

Continuing on:

• Earlier scholarship, namely the work of the American archeologist James Bennett Griffin — how early?

• Mid-20th century. Clarified. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• during first contact with European settlers — what does it mean for a homeland to be somewhere during first contact with European settlers, considering that the language family split off thousands of years prior? Also, this has the ambiguous interpretation of the work by James Bennett Griffin taking place during first contact with European settlers, which I can only tell is unintended by hovering over his link.

• I don't think there's any reason to think that the Proto-Siouan people made any substantial migrations outside the Ohio River Valley prior to the incursions of the Iroquois. For what it's worth, the ORV is a massive area, from Western New York to Mississippi; it's possible several different Siouan groups migrated around in it or others left and died out or left and assimilated to another group. I can continue to search for more archeological sources, if you think that's beneficial. Also, fixed the Griffin issue, I think. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

I suppose "during first contact with European settlers" could be omitted then? Unless the theory provides an earlier, different homeland, in which case that should probably be mentioned instead. Kisseran (talk) 03:59, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

Nope, that makes sense to me. Removed the quoted fragment. ThaesOfereode (talk) 02:03, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• It appears that the push westward — is this doubtful in some way? Also, I would probably rephrase "the push westward" as "westward migration"

• No, I don't think that's doubtful. Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• not instantaneous nor universal — I would write "neither instantaneous" but this is just a personal preference

• Good suggestion. Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• the Lakota are attested near modern-day Chicago in 1648, putting estimates of their migration over the Mississippi River sometime around the turn of the 18th century — It's not apparent to me that there's a logical connection between being near Chicago in 1648 and crossing the Mississippi at the turn of the 18th century

• Yeah, I have a bad habit of dangling participles, evidently. Fixed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• Other members of the Siouan family — again the members of the Siouan family are languages, not people

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• adopted by the Iroquois — this probably requires some explication. What does it mean for an ethnic group to be adopted by the Iroquois?

• That's probably true. Give me some time to find some high quality sources; a quick search revealed... less helpful sources than I had hoped. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• Footnote added. Even more interesting topic than I imagined. ThaesOfereode (talk) 02:02, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• indigenous to modern-day Ohio before being forced out by the Iroquois — does this cause them to stop being indigenous there? "spoken in modern-day Ohio" would make sense to me.

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• placed it phylogenetically in the Siouan family — can a language be placed inside a family any way other than phylogenetically?

• WP:POSA strikes again. Good catch. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

Kisseran (talk) 05:12, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

Phonology:

• Reconstructions of Proto-Siouan's vowel system indicate — again I would be consistent with just saying "Proto-Siouan's vowel system had"

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• may have had nasalized forms — "may have" is redundant with "it is possible that"

• Good point. Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• mark for vowel length — I would write "contrast" or "distinguish"

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• earlier research did not typically account for length at all — I'm presuming this means "earlier fieldwork didn't indicate vowel length in transcriptions" but this could use a little bit of clarifying. Perhaps the sentence is about earlier reconstructions of Proto-Siouan, or that earlier fieldwork was ignorant of a length distinction at all.

• Clarified. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• had different effects on tone in the daughter languages — does either "probably" or "somewhat" scope over this part of the sentence?

• Reworded. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• resonant — is the usage of "resonant" overwhelmingly conventional in Proto-Siouan scholarship? If not, using the more generally common term of "sonorant" may be preferable, as in Kasak 2024.

• Resonant seems to be preferred by the literature, but I have no dog in this fight and if it's good for Kasak, it's good enough for me. Switched. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

There was probably some mix-up with revisions because this doesn't seem to have happened. Kisseran (talk) 03:59, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

Apologies. Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 02:09, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• Nasal vowels are notable in Proto-Siouan in part due to the typologically-rare absence of nasal consonants. — this is not a sensible statement and is not supported by the cited sources. Nasal vowels are rather mundane, and occur even more frequently when nasal consonants are absent (cf. the relevant WALS chapter, which is also cited in Blevins et al. 2020 p. 327). Also, I don't think "typologically rare" requires a hyphen.

• Hm, that's not what I was trying to express at all with that. I've just removed it since I'm not really sure how to reword it and it's kind of covered by the following sentence anyhow. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• Is the usage of IPA conventional in Proto-Siouan scholarship? If not, I think the presentation of the consonant table may be somewhat IPA-centric. I might prefer presenting the Americanist notation in the table (with a similar treatment to conventions in transcribing PIE reconstructions), perhaps with IPA equivalents in footnotes. Of course disregard this if this presentation is how it's done in the literature.

• They mostly employ Americanist conventions, though inconsistently and with distinctions. I've added angle brackets for clarity's sake. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

Sorry for not being clearer here. My concern was that putting IPA first after the asterisk and then Americanist notation in angle brackets gives the undue impression that IPA is somehow less arbitrary (i.e. "IPA is the sound, and the Americanist notation is just how the sound is written"). In Proto-Indo-European phonology, for instance, we write *y and not *j ⟨y⟩. I suppose the norm for living languages on Wikipedia is to use IPA regardless of the dominant convention in the relevant field, but for reconstructed proto-languages the benefits to using IPA are diminished, especially considering that some linguists object to using IPA in principle, over disagreements about the reality and nature of reconstructions. I can totally see the opposing argument though, in prioritizing consistency across Wikipedia articles and perhaps accessibility to the people who are used to IPA but may be confused by the Americanist notation. I won't dwell on this point any longer. Perhaps other reviewers in a broader audience could provide more insight into the practical utility of IPA presented as it is here. Kisseran (talk) 03:59, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

Actually incredibly fair. I've given this some thought and I think I've become rather partial to the Americanist notation in this historical linguistics context, even though I abhor it in publications of living or recorded languages. ThaesOfereode (talk) 02:27, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• it may represent a clustering with a laryngeal or some other consonant — clustering of *r with a laryngeal or some other consonant?

• Clarified. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• may have led to this outcome — what outcome?

• Clarified. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• Linguists have attempted to remove these phonemes from the roster, though without a clear origin they have remained a part of the historical analysis — I would rephrase perhaps something along the lines of "Analyses that remove these phonemes from the inventory have been attempted but remain unsuccessful/unaccepted"

• Rephrased. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• This analysis argues that — "They argue that" or "This analysis is supported by the argument that"

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• the behavior of these sounds in clusters – progressive assimilation causing the voiced consonant to voice the following voiceless one – is more typologically common than the inverse. — this is not what Blevins et al. write on the cited page. The relevant assimilation process under discussion is anticipatory/regressive, not progressive. The relevant reasoning is that Crosslinguistically, voice assimilation in obstruent clusters is common, while voice assimilation between a sonorant and a preceding obstruent is rare, and I am unsure what "the inverse" is supposed to mean.

• Yeah, I just straight up misread here. I've removed it. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• This theory also helps to explain some of the phonological properties found in Lakota — this sentence gives the impression that this is a different, additional phenomenon when the phenomenon in question, presonorant voicing, is precisely the one discussed in the previous sentence. I think it's fine to leave this sentence out but it should be rephrased if left in.

• Fair enough. Removed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• Several Siouan languages either retain a preaspirated series or have a descended set of reflexes — it is logically impossible for a language to not have a reflex of a sound present in its proto-language. Perhaps you meant "a distinct set of reflexes"?

• Yes I did. Fixed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• single unit — I find it unlikely that the piped redlink will ever be created, and in the event that it is I find it still unlikely that it would be relevant here.

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• the preaspirated series was not originally phonemic — this should be clarified to say that they weren't phonemic in pre-Proto-Siouan. Otherwise, it seems to contradict other parts of the article. Also, this is a minor pet peeve, but I would prefer "contrastive" over "phonemic" to be more theoretically neutral

• Done. 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• This change, however, was later phonemicized and several sets of cognates attest the set as distinct phonemes — one minimal pair here would be helpful, if that's convenient to come by

• I'll see if I can find a pair in the comparative dictionary, if that works. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• lost this series during their linguistic evolution — I would rephrase as "later lost this series" because "during their linguistic evolution" as a phrasing is both redundant and questionable. I would also specify how they lost the series, if it's simple enough (e.g. "they merged this series with the plain stops" if that's true)

• Done. I'll see if I can find anything on the how those languages lost them, but I think it'll be slim pickings. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• these were independently motivated → these changes occurred independently

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• this series either remained preaspirated or converted the consonant into a plain geminate. → preaspirated consonants either remained preaspirated or changed into plain geminates

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• Rankin describes the minimalist form without phonological conditioning as pre-Proto-Siouan since the language may have had a more parsimonious inventory at an earlier date — it doesn't seem to me from the source that describing this as pre-Proto-Siouan and the language possibly having had a simpler inventory are logically related in this way. I would also be wary of paraphrasing "simple" as "parsimonious" here.

• Rankin uses the term pre-PSi here though ("If we remove the features of PSi phonology that now appear to have been conditioned, we arrive at an altogether different phonological inventory for pre-proto-Siouan"). Open to making this clearer if you need though. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

Yes, he does, but the logical relationship is not clear. The sentence in the article as written gives the impression that the smaller inventory was just lying around and someone needed to give it a label. Instead, it's probably better characterized as an empirical (to the extent that that's possible) result about pre-Proto-Siouan, a construct that would exist whether or not its proposed phonological inventory is simple. The problem can also be seen as of course, every language "may have had a simpler inventory at an earlier date" (and may also have had a more complex inventory at an earlier date). Kisseran (talk) 03:59, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

I see. I've tried to reword this, but let me know if I'm still missing the mark. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:23, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• This inventory is also a closer match to that of the Catawba language — Hold on. Taking a glance at the sources, it seems like the Proto-Siouan discussed in this part of the article is, by the lead and the Wikipedia naming scheme, actually Proto-Western Siouan, to the exclusion of Catawban. This is rather bizarre to me, and my confusion may have arisen from my lack of familiarity with the subject, but at least some part of the article needs to clarify this.

• Yeah, "the Siouan langauges" is a sometimes ambiguous term in the literature. Looking back on some of the sources, it looks like many (most?) of these are for Siouan proper alone. It looks like I had originally viewed many of the Catawba notes as descendant examples rather than comparative ones. Just the kind of nightmare realization every editor hopes to discover during FAC... In any event, bear with me as I review the present sourcing on the Catawban branch and do a little restructuring. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:42, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

• Thankfully, that was less involved than I had anticipated, but I think I've caught the scope errors anyway. This is now strictly about the Siouan proper parent language with notes on its relationship to the Catawban languages. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:17, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, looking at your changes, the scope problem could definitely have been a lot worse. Do you think the related article titles should be changed around too? It seems like Siouan languages should be moved to Siouan–Catawban languages (currently a redirect) and Western Siouan languages should be moved in turn to Siouan languages. Proto-Siouan–Catawban language should probably de-redirected and Proto-Siouan–Catawban retargeted. The navbox at least requires no changing. Kisseran (talk) 03:59, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

Looking a little deeper, it seems like Glottolog includes Catawban under just "Siouan", which is not particularly helpful. Maybe the potential confused readers will just have to live with it. Kisseran (talk) 07:01, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

Kisseran (talk) 07:45, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

Continuing with phonology:

• The stressed vowel was typically long — I would pick either "stressed" or "accented" and stick with it, unless you distinguish the two (like in Kiparsky's Basic Accentuation Principle), in which case that should be clarified

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

• The language's maximal syllable structure

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

• though these syllable-initial clusters

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

• roots routinely comprise CV structures — is this "roots are single CV syllables" or "roots are sequences of one or more CV syllables"? Also, I presume you've given this some thought, but I would think of roots to consist of rather than comprise CV structures.

• Done. I hadn't really considered it, but I kind of like your wording better. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

• In Mandan and Lakota, for example, the Proto-Siouan prefixes *wa-, marking inanimate absolutives and indefinite third-person objects, and *wi-, marking animals, often collapsed into a single-phoneme prefix independently in both languages, leading to a CCV syllable cluster with its stem. — this doesn't seem to exemplify the phenemonon discussed in the previous sentence. I would rather expect an example of a Proto-Siouan CCV syllable rather than something explicitly not so in Proto-Siouan.

• Annoyingly, none of the three sources which reference this have a Proto-Siouan example; I've repurposed the above excerpt. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

• Found an example in the CSD. ThaesOfereode (talk) 17:47, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

• are often the result of phonesthemic forms

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

• Earlier research suggested that Proto-Siouan had syllable-final glottal stops, but the evidence for these codas actually suggest they are actually the result of excrescence between vowels rather than preserved liaison. — this needs to be rephrased entirely because the cited page mostly concerns Mandan syllable structure, and talks about what seems to be a Mandan process in which [ɾ], not the glottal stop, is inserted.

• My read of this was that the Mandan data was being used to explain how that couldn't be correct; otherwise there really isn't a reason to bring up PSi, right? It is ambiguous though; I've removed in the meantime. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:33, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

How couldn't what be correct? To be honest, I don't understand what "rather than preserved liaison" means at all. I only checked the source because I was unable to understand the sentence, and the source is perfectly comprehensible to me. Again, sorry for not being very specific about my problem with the sentence. I've really tried to make sense of it and I can't. Kisseran (talk) 07:57, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

No worries, I've just deleted the sentence since it's not really all that interesting anyway. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:23, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• Some reconstructed CVC clusters — reconstructed roots? stems? words? Certainly not clusters. Also, I think an example here could help.

• Fixed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• apocopic root extensions — this could be clarified a bit. Does this mean root extensions that have undergone apocope, or root extensions that cause apocope, or something else?

• On re-read, I'm not sure this is actually applicable to the whole. Removed for now. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• high, which is marked with an acute accent (◌́) on the vowel, and non-high, which is unmarked — a general observation that "marked" is quite an overloaded linguistic term, but I'm not too bothered about it since they don't conflict here.

• Yeah, I mulled this one over and couldn't come up with a better wording. Open to idea, of course. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• If the accented vowel had a falling tone, it usually lost this tone and became glottalized. — (1) The source doesn't seem to indicate that this was "usually" lost: instead it suggests that "several Siouan languages" have falling pitch that gives rise to excrescent glottal stops. (2) The source also seems to suggest that a syllable with falling tone always, not just "usually", became glottalized. (3) Accented syllable, not accented vowel.

• Reworded for clarity. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• I find that that tabular presentation of the data for 'give' in the cited source to be quite clear and helpful for understanding.

• Added an adapted version. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• a suffix, or a postclitic — just one suffix and one enclitic? This is worth clarifying to avoid misinterpretation.

• Source isn't terribly helpful here unfortunately: The actual surface pronunciation of these otherwise under-specified stem-final vowels is determined in context by what item follows. The options are: (a) nothing, i. e., the stem-changing verb is in phrase-final position, (b) another content word, or (c) a suffix / post-clitic item.

It seems clear in the source that the list of following items is exhaustive, but it is not so clear in the article that the list of exhaustive. I think there's a possibility that people could assume that there's one suffix out there that affects ablaut, but every other suffix does not affect ablaut. Kisseran (talk) 04:46, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

I think I'm following. Tough rephrase, but I took a stab at it. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:23, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• this symbolic use of language — I kind of get what you're trying to say here, but all language use is symbolic.

• Does this symbolic language work instead? ThaesOfereode (talk) 02:32, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• The description of the fricative gradation should probably make clear that the fricative gradation involves different fricatives corresponding to different grades/intensities. I would be a bit confused by this section if I hadn't already heard of this phenomenon.

• I think what I've fixed up works. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Kisseran (talk) 09:22, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

Grammar:

• almost certainly had — I would be consistent again between "almost certainly had" here and just plain "had" below. Based on what you said previously, I think casting more doubt on this than the items below is probably unintended.

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:17, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• with adverbs able to appear on either side of the verb — looking at the source, this seems to be reasoned separately from the widespread OV syntax, but currently it is phrased as if adverb position were also inferred from OV syntax.

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:17, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• Still, the language appears to have been substantially more analytic than its modern descendants. — this sentence a bit too vague to be helpful. Firstly, this sentence is only useful to someone who is already roughly familiar with the grammar of the modern Siouan languages. Secondly, "substantially more" still doesn't convey much information. Given the sentences that immediately follow, Proto-Siouan could only be so analytic.

• Not sure I fully agree. One language being more analytic than its descendant languages is an understandable (perhaps even expected) concept. I've removed substantially though, since (I think) I take your general point. ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:17, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• Typologically

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:17, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• however, are known to have had a different alignment — what alignment?

• Great question, which of course means "the answer is complicated". Ofo retained active–stative pronouns, but ambiguity from sound changes obfuscates so much it's hard to say what's going on at all. "No categorical active/stative distinction exists at all in Biloxi". The Tutelo data is clearly beyond what a Wikipedia should tackle. In each case, Rankin doesn't really discuss which alignment each language had so much as he discusses how the original PSi alignment descended into OVS. ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:17, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

I may be going out of my way to nitpick but I wouldn't say that "No active/stative distinction exists" strictly verifies "Had a different alignment" since it implies the somewhat oversimplified conception of "alignment" as a property of an entire language that each language has exactly one of. It can also be taken to mean that these languages have the same differing situation from the rest of the Siouan languages. Kisseran (talk) 06:27, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that's fair. Both sources say the distinction was lost. What that means for those languages' alignment I'm not sure, but it's possible we just didn't get the kind of elicitation necessary to get a better picture of alignment before the last speakers died. In any event, reworded. ThaesOfereode (talk) 12:40, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• but they are unique in this way among Siouan languages — would it be correct to say "Only Ofo and Biloxi have a different alignment"?

• No, but only because as I was fixing something else, I found evidence that this was also found in Tupelo. Otherwise, yes; rephrased. ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:17, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• these are not reconstructable in Proto-Siouan — is this not reconstructable as in "we know Proto-Siouan probably had this, but the forms are unclear" or "Proto-Siouan probably didn't have this"?

• Certainly the latter for the involuntary desiderative. For the clusivity, Ko actually says "which is not reconstructible [sic] to Proto-Siouan" so I'm actually not sure, though probably the latter as well if I had to take a shot. ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:17, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• The verb template in Proto-Siouan is somewhat differentiated from those of its daughter languages as many languages developed innovative forms to the original template — this sentence is also both generaly vague and also unhelpful unless you're already decently familiar with the descendant languages. It could also be rephrased to be more concise.

• No, you're right. Removed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:23, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• At least three locative prefixes – *a- ('on, at'), *o- ('in'), and *i- ('toward') – as well as the general instrumental prefix *í-, were probably proclitics and not true affixes in Proto-Siouan, or even pre-Proto-Siouan — I would rephrase to say that these proclitics developed into prefixes in the daughter languages, since it can be a little confusing to read that prefixes were not prefixes.

• Good call. Reworded. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:23, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• The language's first- and second-person agent markers – *w(a)- and *y(a)-, respectively – preceded agent markers — Not what the source says, nor is it intelligible to me. Presumably you meant to say something about patient markers.

• Apparently switched the Rankin sources by mistake. Reworded as well. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:23, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• these markers similarly avoid typical phonological processes — similarly to what? which typical phonological processes?

• Reworded. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:23, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Kisseran (talk) 17:39, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

Continuing on:

• These verbs comprise a fusion of a root verb, typically a bound morpheme — (1) Do you mean "fusion" as in fusion or just concatenation? (2) Again I would think of verbs to consist of its constituent morphemes. (3) It's not clear to me how any kind of verb can also be a bound morpheme. Perhaps "verbal root" or just "root" would be clearer.

• (1) Rankin et al (1998) uses "fuse", but I've just removed it for clarity. (2) Reworded. (3) This isn't unique to Siouan, but in some Indigenous languages the verbal root itself is a bound morpheme; it can't be used in isolation without some other morpheme. For example, you might not be able to say "I hit him" without indicating "with my foot" or "with my hand". I think root verb works, right? ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:11, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

In the relevant areas I'm more familiar with (i.e. Indo-European and generative linguistics), a "root verb" is an unbound, independent verb that just happens to lack any stem extensions, whereas a "verbal root" is a root that happens to have verb-associated semantics. It sounds like to me that the appropriate term here is "verbal root", but you should ignore this if the Siouan literature says otherwise. Kisseran (talk) 16:43, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

Fair enough. Changed to "root". ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:23, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• made use of → used

• Rephrased. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• These verbs – *rą́:ke ('sit'), *rahé ('stand', inanimate), *hą́:ke ('stand', animate), *ʔų́:ke ('lie'), and *rį́: ('move') — presumably reflexes of these verbs

• Rephrased. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• virtually all Siouan languages — I'm not sure if I would describe "all Siouan languages except for the Dhegihan languages" as "virtually all Siouan languages" but I can also see the argument for it.

• Fair. Reworded. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:00, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• Evidence shows that — unless there's evidence against that

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:00, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• around the Eastern United States — presumably you mean "in" or "approximately in" the Eastern United States, rather than surrounding the Eastern United states

• Reworded. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:00, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• prior to the exploration and colonization of the region by Europeans — would be useful to attach a rough time for those not familiar with the history of European exploration and colonization of the Eastern United States

• Glossed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:00, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• relative morphological resemblances — as opposed to absolute morphological resemblances?

• Fixed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:00, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "strong probability" that the relationship would be accepted — well, was the relationship accepted? Since it doesn't seem to have turned out to be the case, it might be clearer to just write that Rankin found the grammatical evidence for the relationship compelling.

• As far as I can tell, no one has been bold enough to say "For certain, these languages are related", but Kasak clearly believes the two are related and has written several pieces in favor of it. I think what Rankin was trying to say was "This evidence is so strong, I think the two languages will be found to be related, but it will take more evidence to convince the wider Siouanist community." Without Kasak or someone else saying "they are certainly related" in a reliable source, I also am forced to be unfortunately vague. Can still change it if you think "compelling" is better. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:00, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

My problem with the sentence is that it's not talking about Rankin's own opinions, but his speculations of what others might think. Would it be undue weight to simply report what Rankin and Kasak's own opinions are (even if they aren't opining with certainty)? It also seems unnoteworthy that Rankin should think that others would agree with him—if instead he said "the relationship probably won't be accepted despite the convincing evidence" (perhaps if he were socially ostracized from the field or if his work were unreasonably obscure) then that would be worth reporting. Kisseran (talk) 08:59, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

Makes sense. Reworded. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:34, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

• noun classes found in both are unusually similar — (1) presumably noun class prefixes. (2) "unusual" is a bit vague. "unusually similar if the languages are unrelated", perhaps, if that's what the source is trying to say?

• That is what the source indicates. Adapted your wording to flow. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:00, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• in a similar fashion — redundant with "like the Siouan languages"

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• a similar ablauting to the Siouan languages, including the use of the final nasal vowel to mark the future tense, similar to its use in Lakota — Probably worth explaining how the final nasal vowel displays ablaut?

• I think this is mostly addressed in the "Ablaut" section. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:00, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

The ablaut section doesn't actually mention "nasal vowel", although presumably you are referring to *ĩ. The confusing part about this sentence though is that it seems to imply that there is only one final nasal vowel, which is ablauting. This doesn't seem to be the intended message. Kisseran (talk) 04:40, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• If the relationship is phylogenetic — presumably you mean something like "If the languages are related"?

• Changed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• Cherokee — was Cherokee not identified as an Iroquoian language at the time? This seems reasonable but could be explained in a footnote or something

• I was curious about this myself. After a little digging, I accidented back into Chafe (1976), who writes that for "anyone reasonably familiar with Cherokee and one of the other [Iroquoian] languages" the relationship between them would be somewhat obvious. He writes that the first identification of a connection appears to be in 1797, but it's not clear when exactly that relationship became widely accepted scientifically. From my reading (feel free to double check me at the bottom of page 27 here), it sounds like Gatschet and (especially) Hale were still working on proving the relationship in a more scientific fashion around the early-to-mid 1880s. Not sure how to integrate this information into the article without running into an OR issue, but I'm open to ideas. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

  Yeah, all fair enough. What Chafe 1976 writes does seem difficult to untangle. Looking at the cited source by Kasak, I can't really complain about the way you've worded the sentence. Without having looked at the original 19th century sources, I would speculate that they were talking about Iroquoian in a more limited sense of "languages of the Iroquois Confederacy". If you've kept in contact with Kasak, it might be worth asking him about it, but that's more to satisfy my personal curiosity than anything. I agree that there isn't much to be done here with regard to the FA criteria. Kisseran (talk) 04:40, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• Comparative Siouan Dictionary should be cited with access dates, since it is online and still open to corrections. Also worth mentioning (not in the article, just as a consideration for the naming convention) that it calls the top-level family Siouan-Catawban, contra Glottolog.

• Added the date I got my offline copy, if that works. And yeah, it's incredibly frustrating how fluid it all is, but having run through the sources again, the real heavy hitters of the field (to wit, Bob Rankin) almost always use Siouan except to differentiate. I would probably support a move for the main page to Siouan–Catawban. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• At the moment, the navbox is inconsistent with the terminology used in the article and Glottolog, but is consistent with the CSD. Either way, it seems like adopting either one scheme would be better than the current situation.

• I agree. There was an editor who went around changing everything to Siouan–Catawban and I thought he was being somewhat rash, but I have to admit I'm on his team now. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• It seems like categories for extinct languages should only include languages without living descendants, although perhaps there's consensus out there I'm missing. There doesn't seem to be much consistency either way.

• Categories are their own world on this website. If someone says change them, I'll change them, but otherwise I mostly just leave them alone. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• Headings shouldn't have lang templates per MOS:LANG.

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

That's pretty much all I have to say about the article. Overall, I am somewhat concerned about the text-source integrity of the article, having uncovered several issues when I struggled to understand certain sentences. If this were on a topic I had less expertise in, I might be tempted to oppose, but I think after such a thorough review in a discipline I'm generally familiar with, I don't expect more such issues to remain in the article. As I said at the start of the review, most of these comments are indeed nitpicks, and the gargantuan size of the review is not proportionate to the relatively small distance of the article from meeting all FA criteria. Kisseran (talk) 08:00, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

Okay, I think I've responded to everything above now. Your contributions to this review up to this point basically warrant co-nomination. Pass or fail, you have helped improve the page immeasurably. Thanks again for your time and borderline-monkish patience in making this article substantially better. ThaesOfereode (talk) 17:42, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for this article on an eye-opening topic! One last reply above. Kisseran (talk) 06:27, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

Reply addressed above. As always, a pleasure editing with you. ThaesOfereode (talk) 12:41, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

Looks good to me. I'm happy to support on both technical merits and prose. Kisseran (talk) 13:16, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• File:Ohiorivermap.png needs alt text

• File:Horatio_Hale_(cropped).jpg needs a US tag and author date of death. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:28, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

Done and done. Image was published in 1897 so author death shouldn't be needed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 12:41, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

Crisco 1492

• As early as the first half of the 19th century, linguists have - For me, "as early" calls for the past tense rather than the present perfect tense, so I'd nix the "have"

• Still ongoing so I rephrased the first part. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• Wider attempts to link the language family variously to the Iroquoian, Caddoan, and Muskogean languages as well as a number of other language isolates are not widely accepted. - I'd put commas after languages and isolates for easier parsing.

• Good call. Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• and Founding Father - Is this relevant to the proto-Siouan language?

• I suppose not. Removed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• the first to compare the potential for a relationship - I'm not understanding how one "compares potential". Is there a way to rephrase?

• Reworded. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• First paragraph of #Dating, "early", "modern", etc. are quite indefinite. Are there more solid timeframes for the changing academic landscape?

• To my knowledge, there are no real accepted "periods" of Siouan or even really Indigenous linguistics. In my mind, "early" constitutes the transition from missionary linguistics to the scientific linguistic age, at its zenith with Dorsey (representing a foot in both domains), Gatschet, Matthews, and Swanton, whereas "modern" is once Indigenous linguistics starts to specialize (i.e., there start to be Siouanists, Iroquoianists, etc. rather than just Indigenous generalists) around the 1970s with Siouan being represented by Rankin (especially), Carter, Jones, and now Kasak and Ko. The main point is that this is somewhat subjective, but I tried to frame early in the #History section. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• Urheimat - I'd gloss this. You use "linguistic homeland" above, which is much easier for a lay reader to understand.

• I'm always reluctant to use "linguistic homeland" since it can be misconstrued (e.g., Mandan was spoken in South Dakota, so isn't that its "linguistic homeland"?). Do you think it would be better to just use "Location" instead? ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• sprachbund - Same thing

• Glossed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• Siouan–Catawban family tree - I'd nix "tree"

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• What's the lay of the literature on the reconstructed Proto-Siouan vocabulary?

• Limited. The obvious big one is the Comparative Siouan Dictionary, a massive 1100-page volume of Siouan–Catawban comparanda with commentary. It was published in 2015, but much (most?) of its work was done by Bob Rankin who died in early 2014. Much of the rest is rather old so I had reservations about using it. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• Honestly, fair. No worries on my part. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:50, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

I'll be honest, my eyes glazed over when going through the phonology section, so I don't have any remarks about that (phonology was always my least favourite subject in my undergraduate studies). It may be a bit dense for the lay reader, but given the subject matter, potentially unavoidable. Mostly just minor things. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:33, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

Hard to blame you. Phonology was a breeze for me, but only God could help me with syntax. Always open to any thoughts on how to write at a lower level, though I agree this is relatively high level. Thanks for taking the time to review. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:32, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• Oh, syntax was was so much easier for me... though of course, my preference was for literature. Happy to support this article on prose. I will defer to Kisseran for the technical accuracy of the language used. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:50, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Coordinator note

This nom has been stalled for multiple weeks and has attracted limited support. Unless it there is considerable movement towards a consensus to promote over the next few days I am afraid that it is likely to be archived. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 21:30, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

Completely understandable. Thanks for the heads up. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:49, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Kepler-1229b

@ThaesOfereode: thinking of reviewing this soon. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 03:50, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Some comments (feel free to reject these if you wish; most are minor nitpicks):

• In 1816, the German scholars Johann Adelung and Johann Vater were the first to suggest a potential relationship between Catawba and Woccon. They primarily used a side-by-side word list to try to link the two languages. Is this super relevant to Western Siouan? IMO it really isn't.

• Understandable. I have no strong opinion either way so removed. 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• There seems to be a lack of information about the history of reconstructive work within Siouan, rather than some information about the history of the foundation of the family itself.

• A consequence, I imagine, of the field's size, sadly. The only small linguistics field that seems to have any serious interest in documenting its own development appears to be Oceanic linguistics, which should be the envy of every subfield. There are homages in others (e.g., Cincius in Tungusic), but little to say on the development of PSi outside of the Comparative Dictionary, which gets little press. That said, Larson has something interesting to say about it, which I've added in brief. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• Are the external relationships with other languages super relevant here? IMO these seem like they would belong on the Siouan-Catawban family article.

• I hate making a cut like this, but I think you're probably correct. Moved. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• Successive Iroquois victories caused a massive displacement of Siouan-speaking populations, probably occurring during the 1600s following an increase in European colonization efforts on the American Eastern Seaboard and the start of the Beaver Wars. a comma could be added between "1600s" and "following".

• Sort of a passim note, but I try to avoid putting commas in my dependent clauses largely because I don't want to make the front half look like a parenthetical. Push me if I need to, but I'm also open to cutting a sentence in half if necessary, as evidently I'm wont to write a run-on sentence from time to time. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• in part because it contained the /f/ phoneme which is absent from all other Siouan languages another comma between "phoneme" and "which". Also, "phoneme" and "/f/" could be swapped.

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• though the modern understanding of vowel length in the family's extinct members has proven difficult as earlier fieldwork with Siouan languages did not typically discuss vowel length at all comma between "difficult" and "as"

• Cut the sentence up a bit. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• More recently, scholars such as Juliette Blevins have argued that the voiced stops [b] and [d] may be better representations of "funny w" and "funny r", respectively. I think the part about the voiced stops could come after the "better representations" part.

• I've read this four or five times and I'm still not quite sure how you're suggesting I rephrase this. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• This process has been termed Carter's law, after Richard T. Carter [Wikidata] who first described the phenomenon in his work on Ofo comma between "Carter" and "who"

• Passim note above. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• Examples of single-morpheme CCV roots include *kšą, meaning 'bend' nix the "meaning" as consistent with the rest of the article

• Done, but see below. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• Some reconstructed CVC syllables have been identified, but they are incredibly rare, though several are semantically obscure kind of confused about the use of "though" here; is this supposed to be contrastive with the rarity of the CVC syllables?

• Yeah, must've just been a relic from the cutting room floor. Fixed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• Examples of this process include the reconstructed form *kû, meaning 'give' as above; remove the "meaning"

• Done, but see below. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• In modern Crow, the glottal stop was vocalized leading to kúu comma between "vocalized" and "leading"

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• Represented another way: this feels really awkward; any other way to introduce the table?

• I think what I've done is better, but feel free to recommend something if not? ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• while in Ohio Valley Siouan the stop appears to have metathesized to the onset comma between "Siouan" and "the"

• Cut this sentence up a bit. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• All attested Siouan languages express a final-vowel root alternation known as ablaut which is reconstructable to Proto-Siouan comma between "ablaut" and "which"

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Potential external relationships" section could be placed before "Phonology" as with other language articles

I've also shrunken some of the phonology charts to bring them in line with other such charts. Overall, amazing work! 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 04:19, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Also, the (parentheses) around the 'glosses' should probably be removed in accordance with standard format. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 04:41, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

@Kepler-1229b: Thanks for bringing your linguistics eye to this page (and fixing my tables). The kind words are always appreciated. Most everything is addressed above. As for glosses, I know there is something of a convention in some – if not most of – the linguistic literature to leave glosses alone without parentheses. Though as far back as undergrad, I always found papers that did use the parentheses for glosses easier to parse. So if you're alright with letting an old crank stick with them (and there's no MOS prohibition), I'd prefer to keep them as I've done in other ling FAs of mine (i.e., Old Frisian and Weise's law). But of course, I am ever at the whim of the reviewer. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

@ThaesOfereode I suppose it's fine, although I really am a stickler for the non-parenthetical format. I haven't done the most in-depth review to your article to be honest; moreso this is what I found while skimming it. I've seen your corrections and I'd say they're fixed. The only issue not fixed above is a consequence of the underlying sources and not a fault of yours. Support based on what we have done here. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 00:56, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

As for the rephrasing, which is not a very important issue, it could be something like "More recently, scholars such as Juliette Blevins have argued that "funny w" and "funny r" may be better represented as voiced stops [b] and [d] respectively." 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 00:58, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

An easy integration into the body. Thanks for the review, however brief, and the support! ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:08, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Happy to help with this nomination. 🪐Kepler-1229b | talk | contribs🪐 01:47, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

Chimpanzee

Nominator(s): ErnestKrause (talk) 02:17, 6 August 2026 (UTC) LittleJerry (talk) 14:58, 6 August 2026 (UTC)

This article is from the Natural Sciences and is about the Chimpanzee. It is a co-nomination with LittleJerry and is the 1st time that this page has been nominated for FAC. A previous 2010 GAN nomination of the article was unsuccessful though it was renominated for GAN in 2019 with success. A Peer review was recently conducted with useful comments from both Jens Lallensack and Noleander. The current nomination has been expanded also to include the Peer review comments along with more recent results from the Chimpanzee Genome Project as well. Looking forward to comments and criticisms from editors interested in the Chimpanzee article. ErnestKrause (talk) 02:17, 6 August 2026 (UTC)

FM

• Will have a closer look soon. FunkMonk (talk) 15:16, 6 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Chimpanzees using twigs to dip for ant" this seems unconventional, "ants"?

Your way better. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:16, 6 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Chimpanzee brain is smaller than the human brain" likewise. "a chimpazee's brain" or similar would be less jarring.

Done. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:16, 6 August 2026 (UTC)

• ""Great ape" is a common name rather than a taxonomic label, and there are differences in usage, even by the same author. The term may or may not include humans, as when Dawkins writes" is this actually stated explicitly in the source, or is it your own editorializing? If so, it verges on WP:original research or .

Some Wikipedia articles seem to prefer this convention as in Great ape language. The current link in this nominated article for Great ape is to Hominidae; is that what you mean? ErnestKrause (talk) 20:16, 6 August 2026 (UTC)

It's fine to clarify this, my issue is whether the sources use specifically say this ("the term great ape is used both to include humans and not") or if it's your own conjecture. FunkMonk (talk) 17:29, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

According to Groves 2005, Hominidae includes all four types: Chimpanzees, humans, pongo and gorilla. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:46, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

Yes, what I'm asking about is the wording of the particular footnote: do we have a source that states humans are sometimes included and sometimes not? If not, we can probably assume humans are generally included in the group, and the caveat presented in the footnote might be unneeded editorialization. FunkMonk (talk) 18:22, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Evolutionary relationships among the great apes.[22][23]" state in the caption what it's based on. And why are there two citations? Does it combine info from two different cladograms? That would also be a synth issue.

changed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:39, 6 August 2026 (UTC)

• It is discouraged that subjects of images face away from the text; the two chimp photos under ecology do so, but this could be fixed by reversing their alignment.

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:53, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• "glossed as meaning "mockman"" was this used in reference to the chimpanzee? Not clear, could be made more explicit.

That's how its presented in the Wikipedia article for Pan (genus). Any suggestions? ErnestKrause (talk) 00:41, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

But what does the source say? FunkMonk (talk) 17:29, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

The wikipedia article for Pan presents the full cite as: "The first use of the name "chimpanze" is recorded in The London Magazine in 1738, glossed as meaning "mockman" in a language of "the Angolans" (apparently from a Bantu language; reportedly modern Vili (Civili), a Zone H Bantu language, has the comparable ci-mpenzi)." It goes back to 1738 in the citations being used there. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:43, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

Alright, that's the best we can do, then, as it doesn't specify if it was applied to the animal. FunkMonk (talk) 18:22, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• "it had first been proposed for the genus" could be "this genus" to make it clearer.

Clarified ambiguity with genus of Wren. ErnestKrause (talk) 12:46, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

• "The first great ape known to Western science in the 17th century was the "orang-outang" (genus Pongo), the local Malay name being recorded in Java by the Dutch physician Jacobus Bontius. In 1641, the Dutch anatomist Nicolaes Tulp applied the name to a chimpanzee or bonobo brought to the Netherlands from Angola." Most of this seems unnecessary here. All we need to know is that the term orangutan may also have been used for chimpanzees or bonobos in 1641.

changed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:39, 6 August 2026 (UTC)

• "but a genus of wren took priority." which wren?

The link currently in the article goes to the article of Wren specifying it as: "Wrens are a family, Troglodytidae, of small brown passerine birds." See comment above about Wrens. ErnestKrause (talk) 12:50, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

I'm still not seeing which genus of wren that was supposedly older. FunkMonk (talk) 17:29, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

You need the exact genus of the 19 here; Wikipedia states about them that: "The family of Wren includes 96 species and is divided into 19 genera. The family name Troglodytidae is derived from troglodyte, which means 'cave-dweller'. Wrens get their scientific name from the tendency of some species to forage in dark crevices." ErnestKrause (talk) 19:55, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

I've switched the article to use the definite article instead here as "...But the genus of wren took priority." ErnestKrause (talk) 19:58, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

Looking it up myself, the genus in question is Troglodytes (bird), which is what needs to be mentioned and linked. FunkMonk (talk) 18:22, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

I've now added that link into the sentence. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:59, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• "was the "orang-outang"" WP:duplinked.

Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:39, 6 August 2026 (UTC)

• "The German naturalist Johann Friedrich Blumenbach classified the chimpanzee as Simia troglodytes by 1775. Another German naturalist, Lorenz Oken, coined the genus Pan in 1816." So what happened to Simia? Since you explain what happened to Troglodytes, you should explain this too.

It was replaced. There isn't much more to that. LittleJerry (talk) 18:38, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

But that's not how taxonomy works, the older name always has priority unless there is some specific reason the older name is invalid. So there must be some reason that needs to be addressed as you do with other similar issues here. FunkMonk (talk) 17:29, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

Source doesn't say. LittleJerry (talk) 22:39, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Despite a large number of Homo" duplink again, check throughout for more.

Extra linked removed. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:35, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Pan fossils were not described until 2005." You go into a lot more detail about much more tangential issues, so what species of Pan, from where, and how old?

Chnaged. LittleJerry (talk) 18:38, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

• "the derived traits" explain scientific jargon in parenthesis.

Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:39, 6 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Sahelanthropus could be a sister group to" since this is a single genus with a single species, sister taxon would seem more appropriate.

Sister taxon now. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:40, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Gerhard Roth in his book The Long Evolution of Brains and Minds" why do we need the name of the book in-text? The year of publication is more crucial.

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:39, 6 August 2026 (UTC)

• "line from the human-neanderthal line" Link Neanderthal.

Done.

• "According to studies published in 2017 by researchers at George Washington University... Another 2017 genetic study" Would be more helpful to list first authors than university, either way, you should do so for both studies or none.

Correction to year added. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:24, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

• Why do you cite different studies for the cladogram than for the genetic studies in the article body? Could be consolidated.

I don't understand. LittleJerry (talk) 20:42, 6 August 2026 (UTC)

You mention some studies from the early 00s in the article body, but the study cited in the cladogram is from 2025. Why is that study not mentioned in the article as well if it's the latest word?

They are being cited for differ things.The 2025 study is even less precise on the slit between chimps and humans. LittleJerry (talk) 22:39, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

• "created by enough variation between the northern and southern populations" created is a weird way to put it, "defined by" maybe?

Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:39, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

• "The body or thorax is short but wide" why "but" and not just "and"?

Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:39, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

• "a small nose" that seems a bit inadequate, the nose seems pretty white but it has no length, is there really no more detailed way to describe it?

• "circulator non-lobed ears" Circular?

Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:39, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

• "The canine teeth of males are sharp." aren't they in the female as well, just shorter?

Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:39, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

• "The skin underneath the hair is white, while exposed areas vary between white and dark" is "white" really the right way to put it? Seems very anthropomorphic (as if any human even had "white" skin). It's a light sienna if anything.

Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:39, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

• "rather than just an alternative food source" just being?

Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:39, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

• "expectancy of human hunter gatherers" link hunter gatherers.

Linked.

• What is meant by hunter gatherers? Extant or prehistoric peoples?

The cite says its for about a dozen pre-industrial societies which were studied. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:07, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• "may infest chimpanzee" chimpanzees?

Now plural. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:14, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Wild chimpanzees can possibly live for over 60 years.[84] Captive chimpanzees have been recorded to live over 60 years." So is the former extrapolated from the latter? Reads a bit repetitively now, couldn't it be combined into a single sentence considering the age is the same? For example "Captive chimpanzees have been recorded to live over 60 years and wild ones can possibly live as long" or similar.

Two sentences merged. Same cites. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:14, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

References

FM section break for convenience

• "Behaviour of chimpanzees has been studied" the behaviour? Reads oddly now.

Now adjusted to: "The adaptation of chimpanzees based on their behaviour has been studied...". ErnestKrause (talk) 18:05, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

• "as groups consistently split off and merge" for how long periods at a time?

Now indicating that it is based on varying factors listed in the following sentences of that paragraph. For example, the age of those splitting off and also sometimes based upon their sexuality in youth or old age, etc. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:05, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

• The article often compares them with bonobos, but what I and other readers probably wonder is how do the two differ physically? could be briefly stated.

I've added a short 1-2 sentence addition from the main article by CWW; see that article for the edit history. Its now added to the Characteristics section of this article. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:17, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

Nice, I was also thinking of physical features. FunkMonk (talk) 04:48, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

Bonobos are consistently smaller than chimpanzees; added by CWW from main article with details of the editing in the main article. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:30, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

• "research published in April 2026 in Science" We don't need month or publisher in-text, and you don't do it for other studies mentioned.

State the year only. The other 3 instances in the article look ok. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:18, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

• "between intra-group subgroups of chimpanzees battling against each other for dominance within the group was also possible". It would seem the last "within the group" This seems convoluted, I guess it's the same as just saying "between subgroups within the group? I don't think most readers would understand the current wording, I had to read it a few times.

Adjust wording to read that subgroups battle within the larged group for dominance. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:23, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

• Most of the photos show rather neutral facial expressions, but you mention expressions are important in communication. Could be interesting to show some close-ups of important expressions, I remember the local zoo here also had a sign with illustrations of such, so seems important in to show in any discussion of chimpanzees.

There seems to be alot of images at this time in the article; maybe LittleJerry has seen one. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:25, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

There is only a single close-up of their faces at present, though, so I think one more to show an expression would be beneficial. Maybe even a multiple image template showing different ones. Body language, such as the outstretched hand, could be other contenders. FunkMonk (talk) 04:48, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

The image I'm noticing is that of one chimpanzee bellowing at another in the one marked as "Males in Mahale National Park, Tanzania". Its kind of animated in appearance. Nikkimaria has already started an image review of the present images. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:30, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

It's extremely hard to see (hence request for close-ups), it shouldn't make a difference that an image review has begun, the reviewer can juts be notified. FunkMonk (talk) 05:56, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Image review editor has asked us not to alter picture size; maybe you have a simple solution which fixes it otherwise. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:30, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Chimpanzees will mate at anytime of the year" any time, I don't think "anytime" is correct here.

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:53, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Chimpanzees are promiscuous; females mate with several males in their community." why single out females? What you say about them would logically go for both sexes?

The sources single out females. Males mating with multiple partners is taken as a given. LittleJerry (talk) 22:45, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

• "that displayed substantial bisexual philopatry." I had a hard time understanding what was meant by this, so I would assume most other readers would too. Could be either explained further or reworded.

Removed. The information is grandular anyway as the study is highly specialized to one unique group. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• "these females were still able to avoid producing inbred offspring" how?

see above. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Wild chimps are seen" suddenly you start using the informal "chimps" in the mating section, just to abandon it again. Best to stay consistent and formal. Check throughout.

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:53, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

• "the apes become adolescences" adolescent?

Change. LittleJerry (talk) 20:53, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

• You go into much detail about how they chase and catch monkeys, but how do they kill them?

Sources don't make clear. Given the size difference, it seems pretty straightforward. LittleJerry (talk) 22:57, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

Not really; do they use their hands, their teeth, both? Or club them to death? FunkMonk (talk) 05:56, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Either way. In the sources, the hunting is the important stuff not the killing. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• What do we know about their sexuality? I believe bonobos are known to practice homosexuality to some extent?

Not complicated compared to them. LittleJerry (talk) 20:53, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

• "One chimpanzee, Ayumu" makes me wonder, do chimpanzees respond to human-given names? If so, could be mentioned.

Chimpanzees can respond to one word commands and recognize their one word names; the issue for researchers is whether they can process two words combined with each other in sequence which has been much debated as to results. Currently this is covered with RS in the Nim Chimsky section of the Chimpanzee article. This is the main cite used: , ErnestKrause (talk) 20:40, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Instances in which nonhuman primates have expressed joy have been reported." why so general if it's about chimpanzees here?

'"The chimpanzee's laughter is rapid and breathy, whereas ours is punctuated with glottal stops," says legendary chimp researcher Roger Fouts.' This is currently the RS being used. I'll add it in. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:47, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Oh, my issue was with the general term "nonhuman primates" when it's specifically about chimpanzees.

Specify chimpanzees. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:30, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Further study of the discussion of which intelligence traits are genetically inherited in chimpanzees as opposed to those traits which are developmentally acquired by cooperation were examined in a 2026 study suggesting that broader attention might be justified for studying traits acquired developmentally." this is a very long, convoluted and repetitive sentence. Could be simplified and shortened extensively.

Dividing sentence into two with the use of a semicolon; adjusting wording. ErnestKrause (talk) 10:49, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

• "to their own wounds and the wounds of other chimpanzees." repetitive wording, could be "their wounds and those of other chimpanzees" or similar.

Going with your way. ErnestKrause (talk) 10:44, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

• "who will be "as protective as any mother"" why is a direct quote needed for such a simple statement? Also, direct c´quotes need in-text author attribution.

Remove quote. ErnestKrause (talk) 10:37, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Chimpanzees have used stone tools since at least 4,300 years ago." how do we know?

That's the title of the RS being used there. Its abstract states: "Recent archaeological work has yielded behaviorally modified stones, dated by chronometric means to 4,300 years of age, lodging starch residue suggestive of prehistoric dietary practices by ancient chimpanzees". ErnestKrause (talk) 00:07, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

Considering humans of course existed at the time, that alone doesn't seem to explain much. I'm sure the rest of that article gives an explanation. If you don't have access, you can request it at WP:RX. FunkMonk (talk) 13:10, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

Added. LittleJerry (talk) 19:30, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• "A chimpanzee from the Kasakela chimpanzee community was the first nonhuman animal reported making a tool, by modifying a twig to use as an instrument for extracting termites from their mound." when you stress a first, it's crucial to add the year for context.

In 1960. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:45, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• "can be individually learnt by individual chimpanzees" seems repetitive with the double "individual".

Drop second 'individually'. ErnestKrause (talk) 11:54, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• "making and use of stone flakes, a 2021 study on chimpanzee abilities to make and use stone flakes" repetitive wording.

Remove repetitive wording. ErnestKrause (talk) 11:09, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• "in November 1979" we don't need to know the month.

Drop month. ErnestKrause (talk) 10:25, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• "re-evaluated the videotapes of Nim with his trainers... In the reanalysis" You don't need to repeat it was a reanalysis after you already mention it was re-evaluated.

Drop restatement. ErnestKrause (talk) 10:25, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Chomsky has voiced opposition to the viewpoint of Terrace and Bever based upon his theory of the inheritance of language capacity as being limited to human inheritance alone among all animals" am I reading it wrong or didn't they already themselves doubt the language abilities? So what did Chomsky oppose?

Terrance started as opposing Chomsky, who stated that speech could not be developmentally acquired in chimapzees; Terrace orginally thought that it could be and Chomsky objected. ErnestKrause (talk) 10:25, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• "who was mauled by two escaped chimpanzees while he and his wife were celebrating the birthday of their former pet chimpanzee. expriments own section" this is a bit confusing, were they attacked by their former pet or by completely different chimpanzees?

Wording adjusted; the two escaped ones were unrelated to their pet. ErnestKrause (talk) 10:31, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• The "Human immunodeficiency virus" seems to veer far off-topic and is hyper-detailed without saying anything about chimpanzees. For this article, a single sentence saying something like "HIV1 originates in chimpanzees, but it is unknown how it was transferred to humans" or such would be enough. I don't see how the current long section is justified unless you rewrite it to focus on how it affects chimpanzees or make it otherwise relevant to the subject of the article or shorten it dramatically, especially since the article is already extremely long and there is already the Oral polio vaccine AIDS hypothesis for such extreme detail.

The oral polio vaccine AIDS hypothesis was originally a big deal in terms of attention it received; the current version was adapted from the main article and limited to a few sentences for historical reference. I've condensed it further now. ErnestKrause (talk) 10:39, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

• "They are also taken, often illegally, for the pet trade" is it ever legal?

Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 18:46, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• "hunted for medicinal purposes in some areas." specify if traditional medicine to avoid confusion with the earlier mentioned lab experiments if that's the case.

Added. LittleJerry (talk) 00:51, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• "The IUCN lists the western chimpanzee as Critically Endangered on the Red List of Threatened Species." why does nly one subspecies have an evaluation?

The other ones are endangered, however, the emphasis is added here for the one which is 'critically endangered'. ErnestKrause (talk) 10:39, 21 August 2026 (UTC)

That should be stated, then. FunkMonk (talk) 12:41, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

I've adjusted the wording: "The IUCN further lists the western chimpanzee as Critically Endangered on the Red List of Threatened Species." ErnestKrause (talk) 15:20, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "When its close relative, the bonobo, was more commonly known as the pygmy chimpanzee, this species was often called the common chimpanzee or the robust chimpanzee." this should be in the article body with a source. I'm not sure this very long, detailed sentence is needed in the intro.

Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 18:42, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• "clown-figures" not mentioned explicitly outside intro.

Changed.

• "Many experimental attempts have been made to attempt" repetitive wording.

Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 18:42, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• It looks like mention of facial expressions was removed, which now seems like an oversight, as it is a widely known feature.

Its still there. LittleJerry (talk) 18:42, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

• Changes look good, but I see some unanswered replies above in both sections. FunkMonk (talk) 12:41, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

I've answered the 2-3 questions which looked open above; regarding the images, then we have been asked not to resize them in the conventional way by the image reviewer. If there any questions left unanswered just maybe list them here, in order for us to get to all of your question in case any are missing. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:34, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

I think we got everything. LittleJerry (talk) 23:25, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Looks good, as for images, my issue was not resizing existing images, but the lack of additional photos that illustrate any kind of facial expression. FunkMonk (talk) 05:49, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

Added one. LittleJerry (talk) 21:15, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• Support - looks nice to me, good job with the huge subject. FunkMonk (talk) 17:12, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• I might not be able to do a full review due to other commitments, both on and off-wiki, but I have made a few minor revisions, which I hope you don't mind. Congrats to the two of you, Ernest and Jerry, on such a broad topic. I wish you luck moving forward. Best, MSincccc (talk) 09:31, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

Nice to hear from you and it would be nice if you can add some comments along the way as time allows. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:41, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

General

• I would suggest adding the relevant language template ("Use British/American English"). It helps me in my review.

Etymology

• The spelling chimpanzee is found in
  • "Appears" in place of "is found"?

Use your version in text now. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:04, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

• We could link to cave dwellers.

Link added. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:04, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

• "was most likely coined some time" → "was most likely coined sometime"

Its 'sometime' now. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:06, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Troglodyte had first been proposed" → "Troglodyte had first been proposed"

Changed. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:00, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

• "a genus of wren took priority for using this name" → "a genus of wrens took priority for using this name"

Switching this to the definite article as "...the genus of wrens took priority for using this name." ErnestKrause (talk) 20:00, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc (talk) 18:25, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

Hi MSincccc; Are there more improvements which the editors can add to the article to try to gain your support for the article? ErnestKrause (talk) 18:54, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

@ErnestKrause Sorry, I overlooked this while working elsewhere, both on- and off-wiki.

I'll try to leave further comments, if any, over this week and let you know of my stance. Thanks, MSincccc (talk) 02:43, 31 August 2026 (UTC)

Taxonomy

• "M. Burnet" → "M. Brunet" or "Michel Brunet"

Done. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:47, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Hominidae, or, hominids," → "Hominidae, or hominids,"
  • Drop the comma?

Comma dropped. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:47, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

• "autosomal (non-sex) DNA differ" → "autosomal (non-sex) DNA differs"
  • Subject-verb agreement

There are two subjects, "Comparisons of the chimpanzee and human genomes...". I'm thinking that they 'differ' from one to the other. Let me know your thoughts. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:47, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

• "de-activating of genes" → "deactivation of genes" (or "deactivating")

Remove hyphen. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:47, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

• "greater similarity to that of the modern chimpanzee" → "similarity to those of the modern chimpanzee" (or "to the modern chimpanzee")

Your wording better. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:47, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

• "estimated at 10 to 7 million years ago" → "7 to 10 million years ago"

Your way now. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:47, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

• "that live within forested areas across Nigeria and Cameroon" → "found in forested areas across Nigeria and Cameroon"

Your way now. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:47, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc (talk) 16:40, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

Characteristics

• "(on all four limbs); which differ little" → "(on all four limbs), which differ little"
  • How about a comma instead of a semicolon?

Comma now. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:47, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

• "weigh an average of around" → "weigh an average of" (or "weigh around")

I've changed it for both male and female averages. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:47, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

• "regions which process language" → "regions that process language"

Change to 'that'. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:47, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc (talk) 16:46, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

Really nice catches for copy edits. They should all be up to date now. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:47, 1 September 2026 (UTC)

Ecology

• "...portion of their activities ." → "...portion of their activity."
• "Chimpanzee may sleep alone or in groups." → "Chimpanzees may sleep alone or in groups."

*"primarily eats fruit" → "is primarily frugivorous"

• "like bark appears" → "such as bark appears"
• "mammals which include" → "mammals, including"
• "a respiratory diseases" → "respiratory disease"
• "parasite and microbe species" → "parasite and microbial species"
• "human hunter gatherers" → "human hunter-gatherers"
• "At least four chimpanzee may fallen prey" → "At least four chimpanzees may have fallen prey"

MSincccc (talk) 17:24, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

Behaviour

• "six or less individuals" → "six or fewer individuals" (uses "fewer" for countable nouns)
• "are more thus likely" → "are thus more likely"
• "low level aggression" → "low-level aggression"
• "one-on-one interactions though usually of low level aggressive displays" → "one-on-one interactions, usually involving low-level aggressive displays"
• "female chimpanzees immigrate" → "female chimpanzees disperse"

Intelligence

• "from the ability to remember symbols, to cooperation, and to tool use" → "including the ability to remember symbols, cooperate, and use tools"
• "cooperation first increased, then, due to competitive behaviour, decreased, before finally increasing" → "cooperation initially increased, then decreased due to competition, before increasing again"
• "Great apes show laughter-like vocalisations" → "Great apes exhibit laughter-like vocalisations"
• "Chimpanzee laughter is not readily recognisable to humans as such" → "Chimpanzee laughter is not readily recognisable as such to humans"
• "Chimpanzee researcher Roger Fouts has stated that," → "Chimpanzee researcher Roger Fouts has stated:"
• "Useful distinction can be made" → "A useful distinction can be made"
• "those traits which are developmentally acquired by cooperation" → "those acquired developmentally through cooperation"
• "like a tree fall or predator attack" → "such as a tree fall or predator attack"
• "reported that chimpanzees crushed and applied insects" → "reported that chimpanzees crush and apply insects"
• "cannot be readily reconciled with chimpanzee intelligence" → "cannot readily be reconciled with chimpanzee intelligence"
• "raising the possibility that chimpanzees lack theory of mind" → "raising the possibility that chimpanzees may lack a theory of mind"

MSincccc (talk) 17:34, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

Fixed the rest. LittleJerry (talk) 19:30, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

Human relations

• "Gio masks are relatively primitive" → "Gio masks are relatively simple"
• "including Judy" → "such as Judy"
• "intoxicated (from alcohol obtained...)" → "intoxicated from alcohol obtained..."
• "maimed by two escaped chimpanzees, who had escaped" → "maimed by two chimpanzees who had escaped"
  • Avoids repetition.
• "than other great ape species" → "than any other great ape species"
• "research facilities, zoos and sanctuaries" → "research facilities, zoos, and sanctuaries"
• "no labs in Europe holding chimpanzees for research purposes" → "no laboratories in Europe holding chimpanzees for research purposes"
• "sent into outer space" → "sent into space"

All these Human relations changes here are now in the article. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:55, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

Conservation

• "legally protected in most of their range and are found both in and outside" → "legally protected across most of their range and occur both inside and outside"
• "a decrease from about a million" → "a decline from around one million"
• "The biggest threats to the chimpanzee are" → "The main threats to chimpanzees are"
• "has been taken up by Jane Goodall and others" → "has been advocated by Jane Goodall and others"
• "Also is related the topic of Goodall" → "Also relevant is Goodall's introduction of vaccines"
• "crippling polio outbreak" → "polio outbreak"
  • Drop the adjective?
• "which could have been mediated with vaccines" → "which might have been mitigated with vaccines"
• "killing 1 out of 7" → "killing one in seven"

All these Conservation changes here are now in the article. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:35, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

Lead

• "chimpanzees' tea parties" → "chimpanzee tea parties" (uses singular noun adjunct for smoother flow)
• "comical-figures" → "comical figures"
• Could we avoid repeating "species lives"?

All three lede changes here are now in the article. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:18, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc (talk) 09:45, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

Hi MSincccc; That should be all of the new ones. Ready for next set of enhancements when you have a chance to list them. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:55, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

Bottom line

@ErnestKrause and @LittleJerry That’s everything from me. It’s a fine article—happy to support. MSincccc (talk) 04:42, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

@ErnestKrause and @LittleJerry Was quietly counting on a cheeky "thank" button click — it sort of motivates me to do better reviews but alas, I live to review and develop other FACs. MSincccc (talk) 08:31, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

Comments from Noleander

• Wording: ".. also simply known as the chimp ..." 1st sentence needs to be very professional and elegant. The word "simply" doesnt sound ideal ... sounds a bit too informal? Consider "... sometimes shortened to chimp..." or "... commonly abbreviated to chimp...". C.f. rhino & hippo.

Change added. Looking forward to your participating in this review. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:29, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

• Caption confusing: The chimpanzee brain is smaller than the human brain though with a similar sensory cortex. Starts off talking about size then shifts to "similar" ... does that mean the size of the sensory cortex is same in both species? If so, say so; if not, reword/clarify.

Change to "...with comparable morphology"; the brains look similar. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:29, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

• Citation format uniformity: What algorithm is the article following to put two sources in the "Literature cited" section, when other books (sometimes cited multiple times) are not listed there?

Those two books are cited multiple times via multiple pages. Other books are used for specific pages or page ranges. LittleJerry (talk) 18:04, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

• URL link to Internet Archive: book Goodall, J. (1986). The Chimpanzees of Gombe: Patterns of Behavior. The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press. ISBN 978-0-674-11649-8. That book is in the Internet Archive at https://archive.org/details/chimpanzeesofgom0000good
  • That URL should be in the "url" attribute of the citation
  • Have nominators hunted for URLs for all other sources cited in the article?

• Clarify acronym: "... to reconstruct the last common ancestor of Homo and Pan (CHLCA)." I did not grasp that CHLCA was an acronym, and I did not understand what it meant in that sentence. My brain might have figured it out if (a) the prior phrase was capitalized; and (b) words in prior phrase were in same order as CHLCA. Consider helping readers that are similarly confused e.g. as "... to reconstruct the last common ancestor of Homo and Pan (abbreviated as CHLCA)." or similar.

Word order now changed to match acronym. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:56, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

• Is attribution needed? "Anthropologist Alice Roberts indicates that at least 24 species of hominin have ... I know that WP:OPINION requires attribution for contentious assertions & opinions; but if this is a run-of-the-mill scientific estimate with no controversy, consider eliminating the name of the scientist (why burden readers with a fact they don't need or care about)?

Its documented as page 57 in her book in her cite there. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:56, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

@ErnestKrause - I don't understand. Why is it necessary to name the scientist in the body text. Normally one does not name the sources (in body text) without a compelling reason. Noleander (talk) 23:06, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

Then its better to see it without the name stated. Will try it now. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:08, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

• Any details? " ... when environmental conditions are favourable, chimpanzees have an average life expectancy of nearly 33 years, ... By contrast, the Kanyawara chimpanzees, which also live in Kibale, have an average life expectancy of 20 years." Do the sources explain what is not favorable about the Kanyawara group? Lack of food sources? lack of water? Stressful circumstances? predators?

The various subspecies as documented in the Subspecies section vary according to their populations and other traits including age longevity; the article tries to be thorough about identifying the various subspecies and their traits. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:00, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

I understand, but can the article get the definitions of "favourable" conditions (and "Unfavourable", if available) from the sources and explain them to the reader? Noleander (talk) 23:07, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

Mostly I think the article in the later sections clarifies the Unfavorable conditions which have caused the chimpanzees to become endangered to various degrees of severity (largely in section titled Conservation). ErnestKrause (talk) 20:03, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

• Clarify "The endangered population of the western chimpanzee once spanned ..." Does "the endangered population" mean there are two populations? on endangered and one not? Or is there only one pop and it is endangered? Suggest re-word to clarify. Maybe eliminate "endangered"?

The population statistics are included in the earlier section of the article where they are listed individually; the Nigerian chimpazees appear the most endangered. Do you suggest copying this information and inclluding it in the Conservation section as well. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:02, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

@ErnestKrause - Consider dropping the word "endangered" here. That would eliminate the ambiguity (that is, readers may ask: are there non-endangered populations also?) If there is only one population, and its endangered status is described in detail elsewhere in the article, there is no reason to repeat the word "endangered" here since it may cause confusion. Noleander (talk) 17:23, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

Try with drop of 'endangered'. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:36, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

• Wording "The topic of the conservation of chimpanzee in general through the use of vaccinations..." The words "in general" are confusing. Suggest clarify or remove.

Dropping language of 'in general'. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:02, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

• Wording "... speaks of the importance of covering diseases significantly... " The word "covering" is not the best here, since is is normally used for journalism. Suggest using more precise wording (maybe "addressing" or "considering" or whatever the sources say).

Switch to your word 'addressing'. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:05, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

• Could be more direct: "Only one European laboratory, the Biomedical Primate Research Centre in Rijswijk, the Netherlands, used chimpanzees in research. .." If there are zero active labs in Europe now that use chimps, the paragraph should begin with that fact. Then go on to give background & history. But by starting with "Only one European laboratory.." it is confusing and some readers may think that research is still going on. C.f. japan sentence " As of 2021, 12 chimpanzees were held at the facility..." which is direct and what readers want to know. Suggest change Euro 1st sentence to say: "As of 2025, there are no labs in Europe holding chimps for research purposes. Historically, there was only one ... "

Switched sentence order for both Europe and Japan as suggested. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:13, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

• I don't see any mention of chimps in zoos ... am I missing it? Readers will want to know (a) roughly how many zoos in the world have chimps? (b) are any of the zoos performing an important role in conservation or study? (c) are there 1 or 2 zoos that have important/humane/successful chimp habitats? (d) are there any horrible zoos (in 2025) that have notably poor habitats? Suggest adding that material if not yet in article.

Zoos and protected habitats are already covered somewhat with the Goodall material in the article; for example anti-poaching, safety, vaccination, both in the wild and in captivity. I've added a short section on environmentalism which deals with some of these issues as encountered in the Detroit Zoo some years ago. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:20, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

I'll get to this. LittleJerry (talk) 20:46, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

Are there any zoos that are important in relation to chimps? I asked google and it says "Several major zoos and associated research centers lead global chimpanzee research, focusing on animal cognition, behavior, and welfare. Key institutions include Leipzig Zoo in Germany, home to the Wolfgang Köhler Primate Research Center, and the Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago via its in Chicago via its Lester E. Fisher Center for the Study and Conservation of Apes." Totally not reliable, of course, but I'm wondering if one or two major zoos should be included in the article.

On a similar note: Are there any notable sanctuaries for chimpanzees? I see there is a WP article for Chimp Haven. Could this be included? Noleander (talk) 22:47, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

Add Chimp Haven by CWW from main article. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:45, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

Let me take care of this. There are peer reviewed articles on captive chimps. We don't need to use website articles. LittleJerry (talk) 00:38, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

I added an introductory paragraph for captivity. Zoos are pretty standard for animals and thus information is rather tedious. The use of chimps in laboratory experiments is the most notable thing about the apes in captivity. LittleJerry (talk) 01:40, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• A note regarding article size: The article is currently at 7,800 prose words, which is comfortably below the 9,000 word limit suggested by WP:SIZERULE. So size alone is no reason to avoid adding material. Chimpanzee is a Level-4 vital article, so readers will expect thorough and complete coverage. The article has virtually no sub-articles devoted to chimps (such as Chimpanzee behavior or Chimpanzee conservation or Chimpanzee taxonomy, etc) therefore, any significant information about chimps can and should go into this article (at least until 9,000 words is hit, or sub-articles are spun-off per WP:SPINOFF).

Good note. There is an article for the Chimpanzee Genome Project which helps. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:46, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

• Wording "Chimpanzees do not appear to directly compete with gorillas ..." Consider dropping the words "appear to" if sources permit it. Those words are a bit confusing and should be removed if possible.

Updated. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:46, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• More info about eating other animals: "Mammal prey include monkeys like the Western red colobus, the king colobus and baboons, non-simian primates like galagos, rodents like squirrels and hooved mammals like bushpigs, blue duikers, sunis and bushbuck fawns.... hunting requires large groups." Can a sentence or 2 be added here explaining how the chimps kill these other animals: (a) do they ever kill prey solo or does it always take a group? Even for small prey? (b) Do they kill them by biting? Strangling? Or what? (c) For larger prey such as baboons: Do the chimps only kill older/smaller/weaker baboons? or even healthy adults? etc.

Its mostly in large groups that they become predators. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:46, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

Did you improve the article on this issue or not? Noleander (talk)

Yes, wording was changed to now read: "When in large groups, chimpanzees can prey on mammals which include monkeys like the Western red colobus, the king colobus and baboons, non-simian primates like galagos...".

• Clarify: "Less than half the parasite and microbe species that infest chimpanzees also infest humans, who show much more overlap with omnivorous, savanna-dwelling baboons." The word "who" could be referring to any of the four organisms listed in the prior sentence. I'm guessing it refers to humans, since that species is closest to the word "who". Consider rewording so readers don't have to stop and think.

Its comparing to humans who have more in common with baboons here. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:46, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

Are you going to make an improvement here or not? Noleander (talk) 20:07, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

Yes, it was reworded to state: "...however, humans show much more overlap with omnivorous, savanna-dwelling baboons". ErnestKrause (talk) 00:20, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• Define term: " Top-ranking males tend to be aggressive even during dominance stability." I can guess what it means, but ideally the article would link to a definition; alternatively: add an efn footnote and put the definition in the footnote.

Dominance stability in the hierarchy. The link to dominance hierarchy is made earlier in that sentence. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:52, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

I understand. But I was confused. When I pose a question in a review, I'm not looking for answer in the review. I'm letting you know how other readers may be confused. I'm beginning to see a pattern where you are not appreciating the points I'm making. If a reviewer with a dozen FAs and several college degrees is confused by a sentence ... maybe the sentence can be improved. The phrase "dominance stability" could mean different thing to different readers. Noleander (talk) 20:05, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

Your comments have been very useful and I've tried to rewrite it to match up with your comment; I'll rewrite again if needed. This is the version I tried when you made your last comment (I'll rewrite again as needed): "Top-ranking males tend to be aggressive even when there is dominance stability in the hierarchy." Let me know if this re-phrasing is acceptable or not. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:20, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

Another option would be: "...when there is stability in the hierarchy of dominant top-ranking males." ErnestKrause (talk) 20:23, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

Noleander section break for convenience

• Better word? "Social hierarchies among adult females tend to be weaker." "weaker" seems a bit ambiguous in this context. Do the sources provide a more precise term, such as: fluid, dynamic, ill-defined, flexible, ambiguous, unclear, nebulous?

Switching to 'less clearly defined.' The male hierarchy is more explicit. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:58, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• Clarify: "Chimpanzees will mate at anytime of the year, although the number of sexually receptive females varies seasonally in a group..." What does "Seasonally" mean here? Spring/summer/fall/winter? Or does it mean "varies over time, and is not constant"? Or what?

The article speaks of dry season vs wet season behaviour, which I'll add in at this time. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:04, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• Clarify: " Females sometimes practice infanticide. This may be related to the dominance hierarchy in females or may simply be pathological." Can the word "pathological" be linked or defined here. Heck, I'm not even sure what it means for humans (I ususally hear it in the phrase "pathological liar"). In the context of chimps here: does it mean unusual? rare? a sign of mental illness in the adult female? it only happens during times of extreme stress or duress? Consider defining or re-wording.

Problem word now changed to 'uncommon'. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:10, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• I ran the "Show Ref check" tool: shows no issues.

Sounds good. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:14, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• Cites & sources: formatting appears to be uniform and consistent with MOS

Sounds good. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:14, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• Prose quality: Overall, the prose quality is professional and engaging (except for the issues I identified above). The issues above are not indicative of poor quality prose, but rather are isolated instances of sub-optimal word or phrasing choices.

I've tried to add your words where it was possible, and to try to rewrite as needed. I hope it looks ok. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:14, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• Images: Numerous, relevant, and interesting. I have not done an image review to check for copyright issues.

No image review as yet for the article; maybe someone will look at this in the upcoming week. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:14, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• Leaning support. Remaining tasks from my point of view are:
  1. Take care of prose/wording/clarity issues listed above
  2. Make sure the article has full and complete coverage of chimps (including all material lay-readers would expect to find: things like zoos, refuges, etc)
  3. Address any text-to-source issues mentioned by Jens in their review below.

Overall, it is a great article, and I enjoyed reading it !! Noleander (talk) 18:14, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• Support on prose and MOS. I have not done an image review or source review. I am not a biologist, so I cannot assess whether the article is complete or accurate from a scientific viewpoint. But – reading it as a layman – it feels informative, engaging, and comprehensive. Great work! Noleander (talk) 02:35, 15 August 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the support. Good comments from you in the review. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:33, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

Jens

Sources

• A draft of the chimpanzee genome was first published in 2005 and revealed that almost 99% of the species DNA sequences were shared with humans, along with roughly 30% of proteins. – I think this is imprecise. The 99% figure only refers to alignable base-pair comparisons, while 30% of proteins are identical. These two figures measure different things.

This is the earlier version of that paragraph from last May before adaptations here: . Is one version preferable in your viewpoint? ErnestKrause (talk) 16:47, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

I think the earlier version is too long; the length of the current paragraph looks good to me, it just has to be more precise. In particular, I think you need the word "identical" when discussing the 30% of proteins. If you can't formulate it concisely in-text, an explanatory footnote might be an option too. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 17:29, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

"alignable base-pair comparisons" Thats the same as "DNA sequences". I have to paraphrase as much as I can. Same with proteins. LittleJerry (talk) 21:33, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

• The oldest-known male captive chimpanzee to have been documented lived to 66 years,[85] and the oldest female, Little Mama, was nearly 80 years old.[86] – None of this seems to be supported by the sources. Source 85 does not say he was the oldest male chimpanzee, and source 85 is very unsure how old Little Mama was, and calls her "one of the oldest", not the oldest.

Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:28, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• The Arrogant Ape: And A New Way To See Humanity. Penguin Random House. pp. 200–2001. – 1800 pages? Can we have a more precise page range please?

Typo should read pp 200-201. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:08, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• In general, I note that many page ranges are 20 pages or more. To facilitate verification, it would help a lot to narrow those down.
• Several sources seem to lack page ranges altogether, such as Bard, K. A. (2019) [1995]. "Parenting in Nonhuman Primates".
• A captive study suggests males can safely immigrate to a new group if accompanied by immigrant females who have an existing relationship with this male. This gives the resident males reproductive advantages with these females, as they are more inclined to remain in the group if their male friend is also accepted – can you point me to the page please, as I can't find it?

Removed. It was added by someone else. LittleJerry (talk) 20:28, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• Goodall, J. (1986). The Chimpanzees of Gombe: Patterns of Behavior – provide link to internet archive library where the book is accessible (free registration required).

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:28, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• Chimpanzees use facial expressions, postures, and sounds to communicate with each other. – This is not quite what the source says. The source says "There are four main pathways for the transmission and reception of information: visual, tactile, auditory, and olfactory." You seem to ignore tactile and olfactory entirely?

That is meant to be just an introduction sentence which is clearly supported by the rest of the text. LittleJerry (talk) 17:46, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

Ok, but my point stands: It does not reflect the source and is incomplete (as is the "Communications" section). --Jens Lallensack (talk) 18:41, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

Its perfectly legitime to use a use a non-controversial fact to open a paragraph, even if it isn't stated explicitly in the cite. Even so, the statement is actually supported by the cite. Goodall goes into detail on the different facial features, postures and sounds of chimps within that page range. Tactile communication is mostly grooming (mentioned elsewhere) or things too tedious to talk about like chimps hitting each other. The olfactory section in the book begins with "The extent to which chimps can interpret olfactory cues is not clear". LittleJerry (talk) 20:55, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

changed. LittleJerry (talk) 23:18, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

• the "sneer", which is made when threatening or fearful – does not seem to be supported by the source. The source says they "sneer when suddenly alarmed", not more. It does not say they make this sound when threatening other individuals.

Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:28, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• Overall, source-text integrity does not seem to be of the expected standard, and I found several instances where information does not seem to be supported by the sources. I would need to do another round of spot-checking for a final verdict, but first want to give you time to improve on the issue.

Other comments

• A more complete chimpanzee genome was published in 2025. The paper concluded that while chimpanzee and human DNA differ by only 1.2% in one-to-one genetic code sequences, when looking at entire DNA strands—including insertions, deletions and non-coding material—an additional 12.5% to 13.3% difference was found. These differences are primarily in genes related to the brain, immune system and aging. – That's basically the conclusion of the 2005 study mentioned earlier; why not combine?

Updated by LittleJerry. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:52, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

• bipedally (upright) and quadrupedally (on all four limbs) – "bipedally" does not mean "upright" but "on two legs". Also, the terms could be linked.

Now 'on two legs'. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:49, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

• endocranial – technical term neither linked nor explained.

Now linked. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:51, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

• "compressed-lips face", which is a type of display. – that's too imprecise; the other mentioned expressions are "types of display" as well, no? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 14:20, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

Hi Jens Lallensack; That should be most of your comments updated; Are there more enhancements which the editors can add to the article to try to gain your support for the article? ErnestKrause (talk) 00:43, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

Hi Ernest, does that include Jens' point about improving source-text integrity? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:12, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment Ian Rose. Both Little Jerry and myself have done spot checks on the article twice at this time, and speaking for myself I've even make trips to the library to look up a number of them for double checks. Jo-Jo Em also marked the source review as "Done" when we listed separately for a requested FAC source review; his added comments are in his section below. The sources look good at this point. Let us know if further enhancements or improvements can be added. ErnestKrause (talk) 12:34, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Will try to do another spot check later, to see if my concerns here have been resolved. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 12:42, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

Second look

• In 1641, the Dutch anatomist Nicolaes Tulp used the name "orang-outang" in reference to a chimpanzee or bonobo brought to the Netherlands from Angola. – checks out
• Chimpanzee bodies are covered by coarse hair, except for the face, ears, fingers, toes, palms of the hands, and soles of the feet. Chimpanzees lose more hair as they age and develop bald spots. While normally black, chimpanzee hair can also be shades of brown or ginger. As they get older, white or grey patches may appear.[17][43] – checks out.
• to aggression and even predation of infants on the part of chimpanzees. – checks out.
• Males also have large testicles for sperm competition in their promiscuous mating system. – checks out.
• The oral polio vaccine AIDS hypothesis (OPV AIDS) is a largely discredited hypothesis which argued the AIDS pandemic originated from live polio vaccines prepared in Common chimpanzee tissue cultures, accidentally contaminated with simian immunodeficiency virus and then administered to up to one million Africans between 1957 and 1960 in experimental mass vaccination campaigns; in 2004, the Origin of Aids, a French TV documentary strongly supportive of the OPV hypothesis, appeared on several television stations around the world.[212] – Source [212] seems to be said "The Origin of Aids" on YouTube. Haven't watched it, but I don't think that a conspiration theory "documentary" like this is a reliable source for anything, and certainly not as a source about its own worldwide success. I see that most of the text is copy-pasted from the intro of the Oral polio vaccine AIDS hypothesis WP article, but that article cites much better sources. Furthermore, all of this is of very borderline relevance, and mention of that movie clearly goes out of scope in my opinion.

• Replace poor cite with 3 RS including one from 'Nature' magazine. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:52, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• None of these sources seem to mention the movie though? Which again shows that it is simply not relevant. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 05:40, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• Drop film reference. Film was not widely circulated. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:15, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• Source 196: All checks out as far as I see
• Animal rights groups have urged a stop to such acts, considering them abusive.[172] – While this checks out, you just cite the webpage of an activism group here. A secondary source would be ideal, but not sure if strictly required.

• Add two more cites RS for animal abuse protection. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:03, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• But the cites you added are about circuses, not about zoos. None of these sources (including the original one) makes any reference to Chimp tea parties. Sources are supposed to support the content, not more and not less. And what I was actually suggesting was to use a secondary source (like a book about Chimps discussing abuses), not additional activism sites. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 05:40, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• Adjust wording for emphasis. Add two RS cites for discontinued Tea Party and other discontinued entertainments. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:33, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

You now have four sources for the tea party sentence but most seem irrelevant for supporting the info (one is just about TV advertisement). And in neither can I see your claim that the tea party started in 1926, for example. The next sentence "Animal rights groups have urged a stop to such acts, considering them abusive.[174][175][176]" refers to the tea parties, but all the sources are about circuses, without mentioning said tea parties. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 15:36, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Archive anecdotal Tea party material from article. Keep See also link for related Wikipedia article. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:45, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• The "Attacks" section is mostly a list of anecdotes sourced to news reports on the individual incidents, which, as we know, tend to sensationalize animal attacks and do usually not place them into context. I am feeling quite uneasy about this. Don't you have a secondary, scholarly source here?

• The sources used are RS, however, your point may be difficult to document scientifically other than the heading of something like "Irresponsible human conduct around wild animals". That's not to say this does not happen frequently enough but it seems very close to documenting a psychology of human foolishness and irresponsibility. It may be somewhat off-topic. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:09, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• My point was that most of the section should be based on a secondary source, rather than on sensationalizing news articles. This could be a discussion in one of the books about chimps. At the moment, the "attacks" section are a bit like a list of trivia. A secondary source helps to decide which incident is actually relevant (I personally don't think that the drunk-ape attacks in Uganda are relevant; that is barely representative and although something a newspaper wants to report on, might be undue here). --Jens Lallensack (talk) 05:40, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• There is an extensive literature on abnormal psychology and animal cruelty which can be opened in the chimpanzee article in general terms, though it was originally thought to be off topic for Wikipedia, discussed for example here: . If you need this to be in the article then, in advance, that you should expect that the discussion can readily go well beyond pet owners who might express affection by kissing their dogs on the mouth. There is a sensitive line here when maladjusted humans touch animals such as chimpanzees inappropriately which causes them to react violently, to the detriment of those acting inappropriately. Is this medical literature and its RS of interest in this Wikipedia article about chimpanzees. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:55, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

  I have re-written the Attacks section using higher quality sources. LittleJerry (talk) 18:22, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Excellent, so much better now. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 15:36, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

• Even with enrichments captive chimpanzees can exhibit abnormal behaviours such as eating and drinking their own faeces and urine, plucking hair, repetitive rocking and even self-mutilation.[184] – does not seem to check out; I see mutilation mentioned only in laboratory settings, not in zoos?

• The structure of that article is to make the analogy that problems in the lab are also observed in zoos by direct comparison. I've added another cite for such self-injurious behaviour in chimps. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:20, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• But your new source also does not support the sentence. First, that source states that self-injurious behaviour in zoos is very rare and "not a major problem" in zoo primates. Your sentence implies that it is a relevant problem, which is the opposite what the source says. Second, the sentence is not about average zoo chimps but about those with enrichments ("Even with enrichments captive chimpanzees"), but your new source is not just about those. Third, your new source reports one instance about self-biting in zoo chimps but I don't see any mention of self-mutilation in this species in that source. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 05:40, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• Shorten prose. Citation calls it self-injurious. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:12, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

  changed sentence so it reflects the article on enrichments. LittleJerry (talk) 18:24, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• Even in places where keeping non-human primates as pets is illegal, the exotic pet trade continues to prosper – Is this so? Does not seem to be supported by the source.

• The article there concludes on the subject of legality of ownership stating: 'Legality: Many states, counties, cities and towns have laws banning the ownership of non-human primates.' That conclusion is in contrast to the opening question in the section which is "Want to raise a chimp, then think again". The argument is that legality often does not deter persons from wanting to own a 'pet' chimpanzee. I've altered and adapted the wording somewhat in answering your concern. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:30, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• But you still say "Outside their range, chimpanzees are popular as exotic pets" which still isn't supported by the source. The source does not state this, and I don't think it necessarily implies it. It just says "don't do it"; and you interpret things here that are not there. Also, the new wording ("Although careful reflection often recommends against chimpanzee captivity as pets, and often deeming it to be illegal, that many still pursue such ownership") seems awkward to me; e.g., having chimps as pets is "deemed illegal" by "careful reflection"? That does not make sense to me. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 05:40, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• Adjust wording; shorten text to match citation. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:22, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• You now have this: Outside their range, chimpanzees are sometimes used as domestic pets. Keeping chimpanzees as domestic pets can be illegal, and such laws are maintained as a civil protection against people who still try to keep them as pets. – First, this doesn't make any sense to me (such laws are maintained as a civil protection, what does that even mean?). Second, I also don't see how this new sentence is supported by the source. And chimpanzees can be "domestic pets"? I think clearly not (and again, that's not in the source!). --Jens Lallensack (talk) 15:36, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

• Archive sociological discussion of legal and societal aspects of domestic pets as not directly on topic. Condense material on domestic pets. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:00, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• To conclude: most of the article seems fine, but problems in the "Human relation" sections are adding up. Especially the Youtube conspiracy video source is concerning in my opinion. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:10, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Hi Jens Lallensack; Thanks for the second look and for your thoroughness. Its very useful. I've made the adapted edits you have requested and added a number of citations. The YouTube cite is now removed. The article should now be improved. Let us know if there are further enhancements which the nominators can make to the article to try to gain your support. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:42, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• Hi, none of those changes really fix my concerns though, as I tried to explain again above. Sources have to support what is stated in the article; it is not enough to cite something that is roughly about the same topic. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 05:40, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

• Hi Jens Lallensack; I've adjusted the wording to match the issues you brought up, and thanks for the precision. The issue on animal cruelty is a little sensitive and you can guide the direction you want to take as you feel is best, and I'll try to edit it. The article otherwise looks improved. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:25, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

See replies above, even after all this back-and-forth there still seem to be issues with some of those points. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 15:36, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

I've condensed the material on the last two counts you have raised, which were the archiving of the tea party material, and the condensing of the legal issues of domestic pets. The prose is shortened to reflect these adjustments to the article. Are there more items the editors can offer to do to enhance the article and try to gain your support. ErnestKrause (talk) 01:00, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Regarding the pets (not domestic pets), the lead still says this: Although chimpanzees have been kept as pets, their strength, aggressiveness, and unpredictability makes them dangerous in this role. This is now no longer repeated in the body and is thus unsourced. I think it makes sense to repeat that sentence in the body; as it is supported by the Goodall institute source that you now removed. That said, I will be away until Tuesday, but can try to take another check for sourcing issues in then, if that's not too late. Jens Lallensack (talk) 04:43, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Goodall restored as stated in your comments. ErnestKrause (talk) 06:11, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• Don't use fixed px size

Article is using 'thumb' for sizing throughout the article, except for the Genome map which appears too small if left as 'thumb'. 21:05, 18 August 2026 (UTC)ErnestKrause (talk)

Suggest using |upright= per MOS:IMGSIZE. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:08, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• File:Humanchimpchromosomes.png: source links are dead. Ditto File:Chimp_and_human_hands.jpg, File:1911_EB_Chimpanzee_Brain.png

Updated by User:Gerbil. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:53, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• File:Man&chimpbrains.png needs a US tag

Added. LittleJerry (talk) 23:44, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Er, where? No changes appear to have been made to the image description page? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:08, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• File:HugoRheinholdApeWithSkull.DarwinMonkey.2.jpg: what's the copyright status of the work pictured? Ditto File:Schimpansenmaske_kaogle_Liberia_Museum_Rietberg_RAF_428.jpg. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:23, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

They were made in 1893 and 1900 respectively. So no copyright. LittleJerry (talk) 23:44, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Copyright tags should be added to indicate that. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:08, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

I don't know which. LittleJerry (talk) 00:48, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

Nikkimaria, what copyright tag am I supposed to use for these? LittleJerry (talk) 21:21, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

You can have a look at this chart based on when and where they were published. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:13, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

Added. LittleJerry (talk) 19:11, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

Source (and DUE) review

"The Long Evolution of Brains and Minds" is lacking some identifiers it has, and I am not sure that the bots will take care of this. Didn't notice anything else of note. Not related to sourcing, but is the section about "Oral polio vaccine AIDS hypothesis" really WP:DUE? It's definitively not one of the main things that come to mind when hearing about chimpanzees, nor a major aspect of chimpanzee biology. Likewise, the entire paragraph about The Long Evolution of Brains and Minds seems quite a lot. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:09, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

Good comments. I've added the cite information and ISBN for 'The Long Evolution' book now. Regarding the Oral Polio section, then I had received a thank you in my tab notification on by user account notifications when I added this short subsection; since it has also has had a fairly widely circulated full-length documentary about it made and broadcast, it seemed a useful addition. If you have a suggestion for trimming it in some way then let the co-nominators know what you think might be trimmed. Separately, for the material used from 'The Long Evolution' sizable book by Gerhard Roth, then it appears as an extended sentence directly before the start of the Species section of the article; the material there is often used by cladistics readers and scholars to get a better understanding of evolutionary lines and their development. If you see a way to trim or enhance it in some way then let us know so that it can be used to possibly shorten that main sentence. ErnestKrause (talk) 12:30, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

Jo-Jo Eumerus, we also need a spotcheck. LittleJerry (talk) 01:56, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

My back-of-the-envelope WP:WEIGHT estimate is that the polio theory deserves only one brief sentence. On the paragraph on vaccine-related conservation issues, I wonder if shortening it to half might work. Incidentally, is charismatic megafauna a factor in chimpanzee conservation efforts? Punting the spot check so that other folks can chip in on these too, it doesn't good when a process depends on just one person. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:05, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

Hi Jo-Jo Eumerus; I've shortened that polio vaccine discussion to one sentence and merged it with the previous subsection. The general vaccine discussion I've also trimmed further. Regarding the charismatic megafauna, then I did link it and bring it into the article as well. Both myself and Little Jerry have double checked the spot checks and his request to you was optional and icing on the cake if you were inclined to look at it. Otherwise, that should bring your comments up to date, and let us know if the nominators can make further enhancements to the article and sources to try to gain your support. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:54, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

For the record, I also pointed out that section was overly detailed, so the trimmed version looks much better to me. FunkMonk (talk) 23:34, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

@FAC coordinators: Article currently has 3 editors supporting on prose, with NikkiM ok on images review, and Jo-Jo Eumerus has marked the listing on Requests for FAC Source review as "Done". Are there further edits the co-nominators can offer to make for more improvements to the article to move the article towards promotion? ErnestKrause (talk) 11:06, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

RoySmith

I'm not yet committing to doing a full review, but I do have a question about the phylogenetic classification in the infobox. It lists ... Primates - Hominoidia - Hominidae - Pan - P. triglodytes. But when I go to Primates, I see the (extant) sub-divisions of that are Strepsirrhini and Haplorhini, neither of which have any subdivisions which line up with this. I'm sure I'm being naive about how phylogenetic trees (with their seemingly endless explosion of sub-, infra-, super-, etc) work, but I find this confusing. Is there some way this can be reconciled? (unsigned from RoySmith)

Hi RoySmith; Wikipedia's main article for this is at: Order (taxonomy). As you can see there, order-to-suborder is not the prevalent classification system in use at this time. The article there correctly identifies cladistics as more properly oriented to orders-to-families-leading-to-species as the main classification system. These are interesting distinctions. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:52, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Hmmm. So, if I'm understanding this right, there's two different kinds of trees taxonomists work with. One is the traditional (Linnaean) kind and the other is the modern (cladist) kind, and these don't map well to each other except at the very top (Kingdom, Phylum) and the very bottom (Genus, Species) and in between they diverge wildly from each other? Primate uses the Linnaean style in its infobox and Chimpanzee uses the cladist style? Is that correct so far? -- RoySmith (talk) 22:24, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

I'm thinking that you are reading it correctly; and I've not been on the reviewing FAC group of editors for Primate to explain why they used Order-suborder classifications as their preference in the lede. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:33, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Hmmm. Well, something is clearly broken there, but the Chimpanzee FAC is also clearly the wrong place for going down that rathole, so I'll stop here :-) -- RoySmith (talk) 22:44, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Christopher Morcom

Nominator(s): ―Panamitsu (talk) 08:50, 4 August 2026 (UTC)

This article is about Christopher Morcom, known for being a childhood friend and crush of Alan Turing, who worked on mathematics, computer science and other subjects. Morcom is probably best known from his depiction in the film The Imitation Game (which contains many factual inaccuracies). He died at the age of 18 due to tuberculosis. ―Panamitsu (talk) 08:50, 4 August 2026 (UTC)

A couple drive-by comments:

• What makes "The Old Shirburnian Society" a High Quality Reliable Source?
• The primary academic reference here is Hodges 2012, which I should note was originally published in 1982. While this source is no doubt high quality, and perhaps still the most comprehensive work on Turing's life/context, are you confident there are no other scholarly sources that could add to this? I am a bit surprised to not see a wider range of sources drawn upon here

- Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 17:09, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

I'm a bit surprised by the lack of sources myself -- I haven't been able to find many. I've also had a look through the books Prof: Alan Turing Decoded and The Turing Guide but they have very little information about Morcom. I don't know if The Old Shirburnian Society is a high quality reliable source, all I know that it says at the bottom that it was written by the school's archivist. Unfortunately it contains quite a bit of information that I haven't been able to find in other sources. What should I do with the source? ―Panamitsu (talk) 23:16, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for your attention Eddie891!

The Old Shirburnian Society is the official society of Sherborne graduates, and as Panamitsu mentioned, they are published by the school's archivist. As such, they treat their own school's documents as historic ones, and publish otherwise inaccessible documents, including the specific library books checked out by Morcom according to the school's records, or the images of rugby teams. As such, I would designate it a reliable source since it is the school itself's alumni association.

Regarding the Hodges biography: of all of the biographies, I have found it to contain the most information on Morcom, since it devotes an entire chapter to him. It is also very easily accessible online, which is why it was so thoroughly used (I could control-F all of the instances of Morcom's life and descriptions). I have seen Morcom also described in Decoded, though not as extensively; and I have not yet read the Turing Guide, but perhaps it will be a useful source. However, Hodges seemed to devote a lot of information to Morcom and there are about 10-20 pages that describe him.

It would be great to get further sources, but as of now, I have scoured Google Books as usual and did my best to get a variety, including some Chess magazines in which he was featured and descriptions of his family elsewhere.

Thanks again for your attention to this matter and glad we are discussing the feature candidacy!

P.S. - will be adding a few more images I found that were taken by Morcom shortly (they are public domain in the UK) as well as an image of Morcom with his parents which is present in the newly-created Frances Isobel Swan article.

Evedawn99 (talk) 23:44, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the responses- I guess I am not super surprised that there is not to add to Hodges in scholarly sources. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 10:52, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

Hi Eddie, I realise the above is headed "drive-by" but have you in fact conducted a full source review for reliability/quality (and formatting per MOS)? If not, would you care to? No pressure, I can list the nom for one at the top of WT:FAC. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:00, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Gog the Mild

Recusing to review.

• References: article titles can be in either title case or sentence case, regardless of how they appear in their original, and should all be consistently in one or the other.
• "Morcom has been described as Turing's first love" is followed by "Morcom becoming what has been described as Turing's first love" in the next paragraph. One of them seems redundant.

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:15, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

Agreed, Gog, with the redundancy. Thank you for looking out. I have removed the redundant second sentence. I hope another editor can contribute help with the sources; or I will also contribute to this in due time. Evedawn99 (talk) 23:35, 10 August 2026 (UTC)

I've just converted all the source titles to Title Case. ―Panamitsu (talk) 00:48, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

• "In 1909 the Morcom family bought and soon began living in The Clock House". Link The Clock House at first mention. (Which is in the second sentence of "Family".)
• "The Clock House". I am struggling to find a strong consensus in the sources for that upper-case T. And you are inconsistent regarding this.
• "He began in the Upper Fourth form". Why the upper-case U and F?
• "they worked on analysing plasticine, a type of modelling clay, for an artist." Is it known which artist?
• "engaged in "driving" ". What is "driving" (A type of golf? Using a motor vehicle? Herding animals? Something else?) and why is it in quote marks?
• Re the extended quote, MOS:QUOTE says "While quotations are an indispensable part of Wikipedia, try not to overuse them. Using too many quotes is incompatible with an encyclopedic writing style ... It is generally recommended that content be written in Wikipedia editors' own words. Consider paraphrasing quotations into plain and concise text when appropriate".
• "where they would travel a quarter of a mile to Sherborne School for Girls then explode noisily." You write "where they would"; did they?
• "Christopher used to tease Alan a good deal ..." See above re quotes.
• "Morcom contracted bovine tuberculosis at a young age after drinking infected cows' milk. After observing ..." "... after ... After ..." is clunky.
• "he appeared extra thin". A little informal. Perhaps 'unusually thin'?
• "The two exchanged letters, which included the two remembering ..." "The two ... the two ..."
• "his initial reaction to the death still exhibited different beliefs." Different to what?
• I am not a fan of the short, single-sentence paragraphs in "In popular culture".
• "Morcom, his relationship with Alan Turing, and the Clock House all end Geoffrey Hill's poem". All of them end it? How about something like 'Geoffrey Hill's poem "A Cloud in Aquila" ends with mentions of Morcom, his relationship with Alan Turing, and the Clock House. The poem is part of Hill's 2007 poetry anthology A Treatise of Civil Power.

Looking good. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:09, 11 August 2026 (UTC)

Have done most of the suggestions. I've left the block quote in the personal life section, but would you like me to remove it?

Only if you are going to follow the MoS advice "It is generally recommended that content be written in Wikipedia editors' own words. Consider paraphrasing quotations into plain and concise text when appropriate", which I would recommend.

As for the artist point, the source doesn't say who it was. The source doesn't say what this "driving" is either, and I don't know what it means so I left it in quote marks. ―Panamitsu (talk) 08:16, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

Three comments you seem to have missed, now in green for easy identification, and my comment on the block quote. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:46, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I've just paraphrased that block quote. I've also changed all "The Clock House" mentions to "the Clock House" as that's the style that Hodges uses, which is the most high quality source in this article. I've linked the Clock House although I believe that it isn't notable (although I would like to be proved wrong). "Different to what?" I've just changed it to a "However, ..." as it was referring to the following sentence. ―Panamitsu (talk) 03:53, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• Don't use fixed px size

• File:Christopher_Morcom_Portrait.jpg: needs a US tag, and if the author is unknown how do we know they died over 70 years ago? Also per the UK tag "please specify in the image description the research you have carried out to find who the author was". *Ditto File:Christopher_Morcom_(right)_with_Reginald_Keble_Swan_(left)_and_Frances_Isobel_Swan_(center),_circa_1927.jpg

• Ditto File:Christopher-Morcom-5th-form-1926-1927.jpg

• File:Maths_teacher_Donald_Eperson_teaching_Binomial_Expansion,_circa_1928_by_Christopher_Morcom.jpg needs a US tag

• Ditto File:Lyon_House_Sherborne_School_circa_1929.jpg

• Ditto File:Christopher_Morcom_photograph_of_Upper_Library_2,_Sherborne_School,_1929.jpg

• Ditto File:Steam_train_locomotive_picture_in_Sherborne_by_Christopher_Morcom,_c_1929.jpg

• Ditto File:Christopher_Morcom’s_photograph_of_the_Big_Schoolroom,_Sherborne_School,_c.1929.jpg

• File:Alan_Turing_Aged_16.jpg: source link is dead; where is that attribution coming from? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:17, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

Evedawn99 could you please have a look at these comments since you uploaded the images? Thanks. ―Panamitsu (talk) 03:25, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

Chiming in as someone who is doing PD review at Commons, I think that it would be quite reasonable to contact the school archive and ask for a more detailed provenance of the photos. From a Wikipedia (rather than Commons) standpoint, the copyright status in the US is more important than the British one, and so the key question is that of the date of first publication of the images. If that is before 1931, they can be kept, otherwise most probably not. My inkling is that the formal portraits are probably fine as they are likely to have been purchased by the school from an independent photographer (which is widely considered to count as publication) or published in a school yearbook of sorts, but Morcom's own pictures and the family photograph may possibly be a different story. Please feel free to remove or disregard if non-reviewers/-nominators are not supposed to post here. Felix QW (talk) 09:24, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

Thanks, I need as much help as I can get as I know very little about copyright. I was hoping that Evedawn99 could provide us with some insight on their process when uploading these images. ―Panamitsu (talk) 09:28, 20 August 2026 (UTC)

Having contacted the Sherborne School archivist, a first preliminary assessment:

Having reached out to the Sherborne School archivist, they responded that they claim copyright on the archival images we are using, which will refer in particular to those by Christopher Morcom and the family photo File:Christopher Morcom (right) with Reginald Keble Swan (left) and Frances Isobel Swan (center), circa 1927.jpg. If they were indeed unpublished archival material, they will still be under copyright in the US and should not really be on Commons. The school's own claim most probably refers to publication rights, which exist in the UK but not in the US. Either way, they won't be able to stay if we can't prove publication before 1931.

File:Christopher_Morcom_Portrait.jpg should probably be fine if we accept that it is a formal-enough shot to have been taken from some formal studio photograph, but could maybe be discussed on Commons. File:Christopher-Morcom-5th-form-1926-1927.jpg looks like a class photo from a Yearbook or similar publication, in which case it would certainly be out of copyright in the US regardless of its UK status.

File:Alan_Turing_Aged_16.jpg has been credited by the BBC to King's College library, Cambridge. This certainly looks like a studio portrait to me and therefore should most likely be fine in the US.

UK copyright should not really be an issue here at FA Review, I think, as images free only in the US could always be moved from Commons to here and marked {{PD-USonly}}.

If that seems reasonable I would at some point follow Commons procedure and start nominating some of the files for deletion, but that process does have a several-month backlog there. Felix QW (talk) 12:26, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

@Panamitsu and Nikkimaria: I have looked into it again and it seems that we should actually be fine with Morcom's own photos locally. Their US copyright will have lapsed either way as both 95 years after their creation and 70 years after Morcom's death have passed. An example of a local upload can be found here. While original UK copyright will also have lapsed, sherborne School Archives may well claim UK publication rights, so local uploads are probably still required. In case people are interested in diving deeper, I opened a discussion on the relevant Commons noticeboard on the topic. Felix QW (talk) 13:29, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

The US status would be dependent on when/if they were published - is that known? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:15, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

In my opinion, they will have either have been published almost immediately after creation, giving them a 95 year term that expired around 2024, or they were unpublished until Sherborne archives published them very recently in their article in the Old Shirburnian. In the latter case, US copyright has also expired since 70 years have passed since Morcom's death. Sherborne Archives seem to claim the latter, as they also assert publication rights on the images (also indicated by the copyright sign they have now added to the images after my question on their provenance using their contact form). Hence my tagging of the local example upload with {{PD-US-unpublished}}. Felix QW (talk) 09:07, 13 September 2026 (UTC)

Hi Nikki, does this satisfy your concerns? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:27, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

I ended up removing most images from the article. ―Panamitsu (talk) 11:01, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

One of the remaining images is lacking alt text. File:Christopher_Morcom_Portrait.jpg is tagged as life+70 but also author unknown - given the date those can't both be correct - and is missing a US tag. This and the other image with the author-unknown tag should, per the tag's wording, "specify in the image description the research you have carried out to find who the author was". Alan_Turing_Aged_16.jpg still has a dead source link, and still not clear where that attribution is coming from. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:50, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Nikkimaria I've just looked closer at the Turing image and the website says images in the archive are copyrighted so I think it might be best to remove it. Sherborne School archives claims copyright of File:Christopher-Morcom-5th-form-1926-1927.jpg on their website. I can't find a good source for where File:Christopher Morcom Portrait.jpg came from. Do you think I should remove those images and replace the infobox one with a fair use image? ―Panamitsu (talk) 06:33, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

If it's not possible to demonstrate that these are PD/free. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:15, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Nikkimaria I have not been able to, and Sherborne is saying that they own the photos of Morcom. So I've removed them and used only a fair-use image. ―Panamitsu (talk) 06:27, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Pamzeis

I know absolutely nothing about Morcom and have never seen The Imitation Game, so this'll be a non-expert, outsider's review. Please alert me if I'm screwing anything up.

• "Morcom, the deceased boy's mother commissioned" — this refers to Swan, right? I find "the deceased boy's mother" to lean more journalistic than encyclopaedic in tone—could Swan's name be used instead?

Hmmm, I'm trying to avoid naming her as I believe the reader is going to forget who she was and get confused, but maybe I'm just bad with names. -Panamitsu

• "Frances studied at Slade School of Art in London and worked for some time as a sculptor" — is there any indication of when she worked as a sculptor? The way the sentence is written implies, to me at least, that she did so while in school.

I can't find a source saying when she was a sculptor but one describes her as a "sculptor and artist" and that she helped design books and a cabinet after Morcom's death. I modified the sentence to avoid the implication you described. - Panamitsu

• "was an engineer involved in" — do we know in what way he was involved? e.g. working there, being a shareholder, etc.
• "Christopher's older brother Rupert attended" — is he his only older brother? If so, add commas around "Rupert" and if not, ignore me

He's the only sibling I've ever found so I think he was his only brother. -Panamitsu

• "Whilst Christopher was at Sherborne" — kinda comes out of nowhere for me, since it's not established that he attended the school prior to this (in the body)
• "appeared unusually small for his form" — I think the use of "form" might be slightly ambiguous here, given form in education was mentioned in the previous sentence

I'm not sure what you mean?

• "He spent a week in December 1929 at Trinity College, Cambridge, to sit scholarship examinations[8] and was awarded a scholarship" — could this be more concise? I'm not a huge fan of "scholarship" being repeated

Fixed. -Panamitsu

• "In one instance, the two worked on measuring air resistance, and in another project, they worked on" — could this be something more concise like "For example, the two worked on measuring air resistance and analysing plasticine..." or something? It reads a bit clunky to me ATM

Reworded. -Panamitsu

• "analysing plasticine, a type of modelling clay, for an artist" — might just be me being dumb here, but does this mean plasticine that was used by an artist or that they did the analysis because an artist asked them to/to help an artist or something else?

The second one, I believe. -Panamitsu

• "class experiments—"painted bulbs which he used as electrical resistances"" — who is being quoted here? Could this bit be paraphrased?

I paraphrased it. -Panamitsu

I got to the end of #Sense of humour. It's a very interesting article so far. Pamzeis (talk) 16:52, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

More comments:

• "He also pranked Turing during their week at Cambridge by convincing him to advance his wristwatch by 20 minutes. Morcom was "very pleased" when Turing discovered the inconvenient joke." — I'm not sure I understand this—what did Turing discover? He already knew that he had advanced his own wristwatch, did he not?

I removed the "very pleased" sentence. -Panamitsu

• "In 1927 Morcom met the Sherborne student Alan Turing, who was a year younger than him,[20] and who later became known as the founder of modern computer science." — A few comments—Turing's already been introduced and linked earlier, so I don't think his first name and the wiki link are needed. I'm not really keen on framing him as "the Sherborne student", because it doesn't make it clear that the two met at the school, as is stated in the lead. Also, I believe the comma in "who was a year younger than him,[20] and who later became known as the founder of modern computer science" is not correct, but removing it makes the sentence rather awkward IMO, so it might need to be reworded
• "Turing intentionally sat next to Morcom in every class in 1929, when Turing joined the same form as him" — can this be reworded so "Turing" isn't repeated?

Someone else has reworded it. -Panamitsu

• "Morcom remarked on the coincidence" — if Turing did it intentionally, it's not a coincidence, no?

Fixed. -Panamitsu

• "discussed several ideas about the nature of the universe which they would often debate" — debating and discussing are p—are both needed?

I'm not sure what you mean? -Panamitsu

• "Turing wrote that he "worshipped the ground he trod on"" — it's a bit ambiguous who's worshipping the ground and who trod on it (I suppose Turing probably wouldn't write about himself in the third person, but it's possible that he's one of oddballs who does and the reader doesn't know... something... I lost my train of thought)

I added a "wrote about himself" which I think fixes the confusion. -Panamitsu

• "speak up for his own feelings" — feels like this could be paraphrased
• " Following his observation of the total solar eclipse of 29 June 1927, health issues arising from the disease resulted in an operation being performed on Morcom." — I'm not sure this is entirely grammatically correct ("his" seems to be tied to "health issues") and it reads rather awkward to me
• "was probably modelled after that" — probably according to whom?

I removed the "probably" as Hodges just says that it was modelled after him. -Panamitsu

• "created an anthology of Morcom" — what does "of Morcom" mean here? Are the pieces about him? Written by him?

The source doesn't say, so I reworded it. -Panamitsu

• I'm unsure of the details included in #Family, since some don't really have any connection to Morcom, like the Clock House being demolished well after his death and his father being appointed CBE—unless I am missing something?

Yeah I see what you mean. I think the family is useful as gives the reader some idea of what Morcom was like as there is very little information on Morcom himself, but I can understand the house potentially being trivia. ―Panamitsu (talk) 06:53, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

I think that's it from me. This was a very interesting article, and I learnt quite a bit. I hope my comments are helpful :) Pamzeis (talk) 02:13, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

• Thanks for the comments! I've responded to a few but haven't worked on them all just yet. ―Panamitsu (talk) 07:44, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Intending to take another look at this! Bear with me, 'cuz I'm a bit busier than I usually am ATM. Pamzeis (talk) 14:59, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

A few more comments:

• "He was the grandson of Sir Joseph Swan" — it's a bit ambiguous whether "he" is Morcom or his father

I changed the ordering so that Morcom's father was mentioned, then his mother, then this, which I think makes it less ambiguous. -Panamitsu

• "the face of the child was probably modelled" — probably's been removed in the body, so could it be removed here too?

Done -Panamitsu

• "in the 1919 Birthday Honours was" — is mention of "Birthday Honours" needed? Could it simply be "in 1919 was..."? I only ask because the mention of the Birthday Honours did disrupt the flow a bit for me.

Done -Panamitsu

• "unusually small for his form" — I'm not sure if "form" refers to the "shape or structure" of Morcom's body or if we're talking about his upper fourth form here

Changed it to "school form". What do you think? -Panamitsu

• I'm still an unsure on the inclusion of "It was demolished in 1976 but, as of 2012, the clock tower remains." The demolition occurred well after Morcom's death, so it would have had no impact on his life, and there doesn't seem to be any significance of the clock tower to Morcom either. From my reading, it seems to be a house he just happened to grow up in, so details about what happened to it decades after Morcom's life seem a bit excessive and trivial.

Will keep going later! Pamzeis (talk) 08:32, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Drive-by comment: Regarding "It was demolished in 1976 but, as of 2012, the clock tower remains", I agree this doesn't talk about Marcom's life, but it sounds like a historically significant structure, so I think it's OK to invest one short sentence to talk about it. Not a big deal either way. RoySmith (talk) 14:21, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

I've just responded to your points, Pamzeis. ―Panamitsu (talk) 00:05, 25 September 2026 (UTC)

Continuing:

• "Morcom met the Sherborne student Alan Turing, who was a year younger than him,[18] and who later became known as the founder of modern computer science." — I was wondering whether this is grammatical (or punctuational, not sure what the right term for it is). 'Cuz I think the commas would make who was a year younger than him an embedded clause, so Morcom met the Sherborne student Alan Turing and who later became known as the founder of modern computer science would be an independent clause, but that doesn't make sense, I don't think...

Oh I see what you mean. I've just removed the last comma. Do you think that's better? -Panamitsu

• "It has been speculated that Morcom's death was the cause of Turing's atheism and materialism." — I think this speculation might need attribution, even if it's super commonly held belief. Even something super general like "the media" or "newspapers" or "academics" or something.

I've attributed Time magazine. -Panamitsu

• "Morcom features in the plays Turing by George Zarkadakis and Pure by Rey Pamatmat." — sounds a bit like Morcom himself is acting in these plays, which is obviously not the case. How about something like Morcom is a character in...?

Done, thanks. -Panamitsu

That's it from me :) Pamzeis (talk) 15:56, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the extras, Pamzeis! What do you think about my comma removal? ―Panamitsu (talk) 06:06, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

• Yup, turns out it was an easy fix. Anyhow, supporting now! Pamzeis (talk) 14:26, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

RoySmith

I took a look at this when it was at PR and generally liked what I saw. I'm surprised it has drawn so little attention here at FAC.

• In September 1922 he was the first to solve a specific chess puzzle in The Saturday Review, for which he chose to win a copy of Luigi Villari's 1922 military book The Macedonian Campaign.[14] I recognize that the wording here is due to my comments at PR, but I find it awkward for two reasons. First, the "specific" wording seems odd. Second, I'm not sure one can "chose to win" something. You can choose to receive a certain prize, but the winning is what you did by solving the puzzle. More the other point, looking at the source, it just mentions that Morcom solved problem number 44, but doesn't say he was first, nor mention what the prize was.

Updated the wording. What do you think? I'm surprised you can't see the text in the source -- it's on page 484 and mentions "the first correct solution ... Christopher Morcom ... as his prize The Macedonian Campaign". -Panamitsu

Ah, I was looking at the entry on page 454.

• The Enigma writes that he The Enigma is a book, so I don't see how it can write anything. The author of the book did the writing. Or maybe this is just a standard idiom in BrEng that I'm not familiar with?

Changed to "according to The Enigma ..." - Panamitsu

• On 7 November 1927 Morcom was confirmed by St Clair Donaldson readers not familiar with Christian rituals won't understand what "confirmed" means, so I think that's worth a brief explanation.

Added. -Panamitsu

• Morcom remarked on this, but, as Turing later wrote, "seemed to welcome [him] in a passive way".[10] It's not clear what "this" refers to: is it the fact that Turning sat near him, or that they joined the same form? The quote is also a little confusing. This is Turing talking about what Morcom did, right? So "him" in this case is Turing, and should really be "me"?

Fixed -Panamitsu

• Morcom has been described as Turing's first love. This is a speculation, so I think it needs a more specific attribution: "Roger Highfield described ..." (or whatever is appropriate).

See my comment below.

• Turing wrote about himself that he "worshipped the ground he trod on" Another ambiguous pronoun. Who is "he". Logically the first "he" must be Turning and the second "he" must be Morcom, but I had to puzzle that out. I would replace the second "he" with "[Morcom]" to make this more clear.

Done, thanks -Panamitsu

• During Christmas term, he filled a large quantity of balloons with gas Presumably this was some kind of flammable gas? Also, regarding before they travelled a quarter of a mile to Sherborne School for Girls and exploded.[1] the source just says he hoped they would do that.

Reworded. -Panamitsu

@Panamitsu: did you see these comments I left a while ago? RoySmith (talk) 01:28, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping, RoySmith, I did not see your comments until now for some reason. I've used all your suggestions but I'm not sure how I would approach the comment about attributing the "Turing's first love" description. I've seen many sources that say this (and it's what Morcom is best known for). Do you have any other ideas? ―Panamitsu (talk) 07:06, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

I'm good with the current wording. Support based on the quality of the prose. RoySmith (talk) 09:52, 12 September 2026 (UTC)

Coordinator comment

This nomination has been open for over six weeks with only one support for promotion. I've added it to Urgents, but unless it receives several detailed reviews within the next week or so, it is likely to time out. I recommend that you ping the above reviewers with unfinished reviews. FrB.TG (talk) 12:58, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

Hi Gog the Mild and Pamzeis could you please have a look at the above comment? I think the biggest issue was whether or not some images were in the public domain, and I have removed them. ―Panamitsu (talk) 00:22, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

Not-cheesewhisk3rs

I'll take a look. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 15:11, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Lead

• "his mother, Frances Isobel Morcom, a sculptor" suggest "his mother, Frances Isobel Morcom, was a sculptor"

Done -Panamitsu

Education

• to attend Sherborne School in Dorset, and he began his studies there in May 1925" suggest "to attend Sherborne School in Dorset, where he began his studies in May 1925" if this is the intended meaning

I personally like the older one more. -Panamitsu

• "Due to a cold," potential MOS:EUPH, I'm not sure

The source says "cold" so I'm not sure either. -Panamitsu

Personal life

• "engaged in "driving"" what does this mean? why quotes?

I don't know what it means and the source doesn't explain it either, so I can't give an explanation. Should I remove the quotes or keep them? -Panamitsu

I think you should remove "engaged in "driving"" - if you don't know what it means, the reader probably doesn't have to know either --ncw

Done -Panamitsu

• "from his dormitory at Lyon House" Wording - I don't think it was his dormitory, maybe the dormitory would fit better

Done -Panamitsu

• "as well as the spectra of several stars and the Orion Nebula." slight parallelism. if the source says that he oberved the spectra of the Orion Nebula, and not just the Orion Nebula, I suggest rewording to " as well as the spectra of several stars and of the Orion Nebula."

Done -Panamitsu

• "of Sherborne School and its surrounds" suggest "of Sherborne School and its surroundings" - no need to use a different word when a more common one will do

Done -Panamitsu

• "Together they read the books of Sir James Jeans" suggest "Together they read books by Sir James Jeans" unless the meaning is that they read all of Jeans' books

Done -Panamitsu

Health and death

• "Morcom contracted bovine tuberculosis at a young age" I assume the sources don't specify what age?

Yup -Panamitsu

• "in which they remembered the late Morcom's birthdays" drop "the late" here, it doesn't add much. the reader already knows he died.

Done -Panamitsu

Legacy

• "The face of Jesus was modelled on that of Morcom" - I just generally think this isn't great wording. Could be: "The face of Jesus was modelled after Morcom's face"

I disagree because "face" is repeated. -Panamitsu

I think the WP:ELVAR makes this more difficult to understand on a first read --ncw

That's all - please ping me once you've addressed everything. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 16:32, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, not-cheesewhisk3rs! I've used most of your suggestions, but I didn't use a couple, if that's ok. ―Panamitsu (talk) 22:05, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

It's ultimately your choice - wrote a couple of replies. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 22:14, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

I've removed the "driving", not-cheesewhisk3rs. How is "the child's face is modelled on Morcom's"? I've just changed it to that. ―Panamitsu (talk) 08:05, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

I think that works. --user:not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 09:01, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Support for prose and grammar - I've got nothing else to nitpick on. --user:not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 09:02, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

Aucanquilcha

Nominator(s): Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:00, 29 July 2026 (UTC)

This article is about a volcano in Chile that is notable as the site of the highest known mine and permanent human habitation on Earth. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:00, 29 July 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• Some images are missing alt text. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:58, 31 July 2026 (UTC)

Added them. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 14:00, 1 August 2026 (UTC)

Comments by Z1720

Unfortunately, my comments didn't publish and my edit save was lost. I've tried to recreate what I originally commented on below, but might have missed some things.

• I edited the article while I was reading: feel free to revert if not helpful.
• "The slide lacks the hummocky topography usually found on debris avalanches but has radial ridges and grooves and lateral levees;" What is a hummocky topograph? a wikiink or explanation would be helpful.

  Added a link; does that work? JoJo Eumerus mobile (main talk) 06:10, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

• "(oxidation rinds are c. 1 centimetre (0.39 in) thick)" What is the "c." referring to here? I suggest that this have a wikilink or some sort of explanation (maybe a circa template?)

  Did that. JoJo Eumerus mobile (main talk) 06:10, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Ahlfeld 1947 reported ongoing formation of sulfur crystals in a cave on the summit." Who is Ahlfeld? Suggest explaining and rephrasing to something like "In 1947, F. Ahlfeld reported..."

  Specified. JoJo Eumerus mobile (main talk) 06:10, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

If I find what my other points were (there were only a couple) I'll add them below. In the meantime, feel free to ping me when ready for a re-review. Z1720 (talk) 16:10, 6 August 2026 (UTC)

Oy, browser crashes. The bane of wiki editing. JoJo Eumerus mobile (main talk) 06:10, 7 August 2026 (UTC)

Some other thoughts:

• Some sources have the titles in all caps. Per MOS:ALLCAPS, these should be title or sentence case.
• I am not a fan of the extensive number of sources in the "Further reading" section. My opinion is that, for FAs, if a source is not used as an inline citation, it should not be listed in further reading as we want readers to read the best sources, especially because the article already lists several excellent sources as inline citations. I recommend that this list be evaluated for their inclusion in the article and removed if a lower-quality source.

Please ping when ready for re-review. Z1720 (talk) 21:36, 8 August 2026 (UTC)

• Did the capitals fix. Viz further reading, these are mostly theses - so so sources per normal guidelines but they have a lot to say that wouldn't ordinarily belong in a FA (one of the WP:EL criteria). JoJo Eumerus mobile (main talk) 12:46, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

• I think "Rivera, Francisco (2023)" also needs an all caps fix. Z1720 (talk) 15:28, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

• @Z1720: Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:18, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• Support. Comments resolved. Consider putting the "Sources" section into columns to remove white space. I'm not sure if all caps should be used in external links, like is used in the first one. No further concerns. Z1720 (talk) 13:21, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

Jens

• with the main volcano having produced dacites exclusively – which is the "main volcano"? One could guess that it's Aucanquilcha but a reader should not have to guess.

  Spelled it out. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:37, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

• Aucanquilcha[141] is[m] famous for – notation like this somehow disrupts reading flow. I personally would move at least the footnotes to the end of the sentence, or at least behind the next comma.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:37, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

• famous for being the highest mine in the world – in the lead, you imply it's not the highest anymore

  Aye, since it's inactive now. I am not sure how to formulate this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:37, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

• has been reported to exist on Aucanquilcha – is it somehow controversial that it exists, so that the language has to be that careful? Why not simply saying that there is a sanctuary on Aucanquilcha?

  Only because the source is pretty anecdotal. This is not like Llullaillaco, where sources go into lots of detail. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:37, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

• Just below the mine[107] is (formerly)[n] the highest permanently inhabited place on Earth – "is" and "formerly" seem to be mutually contradicting. What exactly do you want to say? That it was the highest inhabited place back then? That it still counts as the highest place ever inhabited? That it counted as the highest place ever inhabited but the record has since been broken?

  Is in the sense that it still exists. Changed the tense. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:37, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

• and high sickness and mortality – should that be "height sickness"? Or "frequent sickness and mortality"?

  The latter; changed. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:37, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

• but at Ollagüe in 1963 it did not exceed 100 millimetres (3.9 in) per year. – General writing advice should be applied here: State the most important things first, and the less important things last. Here, I would move the location and the year to the end.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:37, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

• So far for now, not sure if I can provide a full review but I will try. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 21:32, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

Comments from Mike Christie

• "As part of this mining activity, infrastructure like a road and an aerial cableway were built on Aucanquilcha": "like" seems unsuitable. How about just cutting "infrastructure like"?

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Roads and railways pass around the volcano,[10] a branch line of the Antofagasta-Bolivia railway going to the Collahuasi mine[12] passes by Aucanquilcha." Repetitive structure. How about "Roads and railways, including a branch line of the Antofagasta-Bolivia railway going to the Collahuasi mine passes near the volcano"?

  Did a variant. I saw that the "pass" was repeated but at that time nothing better came to mind. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• Suggest linking mya, though as it's only used once you might just expand it instead. Later you link "million years" to million years (unit), which is a red link.

  Delinked and expanded. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "ran for 17 kilometres (11 mi) with an azimuth of 311°": I'm not familiar with this use of azimuth. I looked it up; I see the reference direction is due north. Could we do a footnote saying something like "Azimuthal directions are measured clockwise from due north", and citing a geology source? I asked Claude for a source and it said chapter 1 of Ragan's Structural Geology was available online and defined the term, but I can't find a copy.

  Y'know, I wasn't sure myself what this source means by azimuth, but it says "Azimuth measured along axis bisecting primary avalanche flow path" maybe we can derive something from this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

  Based on what I read, the 311 degrees means the angle measured between due north and the line of interest, here the axis bisecting the primary flow path. I.e. draw the flow path line, draw the line due north, and measure clockwise from the latter to the former. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:22, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

  Is the definition of azimuth common enough that we can footnote that explanation of what it's an azimuth of and call it a day? JoJo Eumerus mobile (main talk) 13:02, 25 August 2026 (UTC)

  I'd put it the other way around; the definition of azimuth is not common enough for us not to explain it with a footnote. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:00, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  Upon reflection, decided to replace its use completely. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:13, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

• "The flow was channeled between Miño Volcano and Cerro Cumbre Negra (an eroded lava massif) towards the dry Rio Loa valley, favouring the preservation of the slide deposit": why "favouring"? If you mean that the Rio Loa valley was more likely to preserve the deposit than if the deposit had ended up elsewhere, that's not clear.

  Yes. I am not sure how to word it better, though. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

  How about "...towards the dry Rio Loa valley, which helped to preserve the slide deposit"? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:00, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  Might be a bit too interpretative, the source only implies this explanation? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:13, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  What does the source say? I can't access it. If it's not clear what it means it might be better to cut it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:16, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  Its avalanche deposit is relatively old and owes its preservation to the fact that it descended the western slopes of the volcano towards the drier regions of the Rio Loa valley. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:09, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

  I think the wording I suggested, or something equivalent, would be fine; "owes its preservation to" is unambiguous. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:01, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:12, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

• Why are we comparing the later slide deposit area to Mount St Helens and Ollagüe? Are those reference sizes in some way -- i.e. do you mention them because geologists consider them examples of a particular avalanche size?

  Sort of - the St Helens example is well known to volcanologists and Ollagüe is another well studied deposit close to Aucanquilcha. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "and a map shows a lake (El Toro) on its southern foot." Why "a map shows"? This appears to be a reliable source, and it shows a lake, so can't we just say "and there is a lake..."?

  Reworded. I wasn't sure if Google Maps corroborated it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "... the CVZ, which contains more than a thousand andesitic volcanoes, ignimbrites and compound volcanoes": this is an odd list -- andesitic volcanoes can presumably be compound, and ignimbrite is a type of rock -- presumably the CVZ contains other types of rock. What's the motivation for putting these things in a single sentence?

  Reworded, I think I overindexed on the source. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "one tenth of the global maximum rate of arc magma production": what does this refer to? The highest rate of arc magma production in a single year ever recorded, or estimated? Or something else?

  Of the global maximum rate. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

  Sorry, not following you. Can you clarify? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:09, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  Sorry, to the maximum rate of arc magma production worldwide. I am not sure why they compare to that instead of to mean, but them's the breaks. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:13, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  That seems a very odd thing to compare to. To a lay reader this seems like trivia, as if I were to say "John Smith is 6 feet 1 inch tall, or about 69% of the height of the tallest person ever recorded". Is this an interesting fact to a volcanologist? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:20, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  Going by the number of recent publications that discuss the growth of arcs and their output as a whole, I think so. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:09, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• Optional, but per MOS:CVT in scientific articles you don't need to provide conversions from SI units. I think the article would read more smoothly without the conversions. For example, ""llowed by later lower-volume activity (0.1 to 0.2 cubic kilometres per millennium (0.024 to 0.048 cubic miles per millennium), followed by 0.01 to 0.02 cubic kilometres per millennium (0.0024 to 0.0048 cubic miles per millennium))" is almost impossible to read. Even if you don't get rid of the conversions, I'd change the second half of this to phrasing such as "with later activity only about 10% of this level".

  The main obstacle to this is the amount of editing work needed - I figure it's not a simple find and replace sorta thing? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

  How about searching for the convert template and just deleting it? I would have that that would be fairly straightforward, although there are a lot of them. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:09, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  It's not quite as easy as deleting a lot of them since one needs the underlying value too. I did a more complicated swap. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:13, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  D'oh, yes, it's not that simple. What you've done looks good. Struck, but if I were you I'd still do the "ten percent" rephrase for the "later lower-volume activity". Up to you. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:20, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  Eh, I think the current form works. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:09, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• You don't have spaces around the plus signs in the composion section; I don't know what the MOS rules are but I think that's an odd typesetting choice. Are the plus signs in the source? Does this just mean "a mixture of X, Y and Z"?

  Yes, if memory serves. Added spaces. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "The comparatively low output of Aucanquilcha": we've said nothing so far to indicate that this is lower than usual, or lower than is common elsewhere; all the examples given have similar activity --Ollagüe, Llullaillaco, Unzen, Mount Duff and Lassen Peak.

  Hrmm, the source actually says that regionally they are higher; changed to reflect this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "4 million years ago the magmatic system became centralized": avoid starting a sentence with a number.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Which in the Aymara language has a causative function" -- this footnote is attached to "che" in this sentence: "Quechua, although the ending "-che"[a] might be influenced by the Diaguita language". What do you mean by "causative", and why is this relevant given that the parent sentence doesn't mention Aymara?

  Quechua and Aymara have heavily borrowed from each other, so I suspect they are talking about the same thing. Causative here means Causative I thinking; worth linking? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

  Yes, probably link that if you keep this, but at the moment I think it's a bit opaque. What you say makes this make more sense; can you source a comment like that? That would help the reader understand that this is not an irrelevant comment. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:22, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  This one is the first source that I can find, some more here.

  I'm starting to worry that this is straying into SYNTH territory, but perhaps a simple factual note about the relationship of the languages would do it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:13, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

  Aye, this is a reasonable concern. Put in a sentence, hope it's not too far off. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 06:58, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

  That works; I tweaked it as I think you accidentally omitted a word. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:01, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

• "Volcanic activity of the Aucanquilcha cluster commenced 11 million years ago, increasing 6-5 million years ago at the same time as magmas becoming more uniform in composition and strong hydrothermal alteration commenced." The second half of this could be smoother. How about "Volcanic activity of the Aucanquilcha cluster commenced 11 million years ago. From 6-5 million years ago, activity increased, and at the same time the magmas became more uniform in composition and strong hydrothermal alteration commenced"?

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• The paragraph mentions the increasing uniformity of the magmas twice.

  Hrm. One is a per-group basis the other per-centre. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "The age of the lava flows ranges from heavily glaciated andesite flows overlying less-eroded ones to possibly postglacial lava flows that may be tens of thousands of years old." This sentence starts by saying it's going to give a range of ages, but the "from" is the andesite flows that are clearly not the oldest as they overlie less-eroded flows, and there is no age given for the start of the age range.

  Well, talk about a writing blunder; fixed it. Dunno about the rest of the sentence. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "The site of volcanic activity migrated over time." We have already said in the geology section that the CVZ has migrated eastward; is this telling us anything different? And if we keep it shouldn't we give the direction of the migration? And I think it should be "has migrated" if we do keep it.

  That was the CVZ, here we are talking about individual volcanoes. Rewritten. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• The lead says "the main Aucanquilcha volcano ... produced dacites exclusively", and the body says "the Aucanquilcha complex produced both andesite and dacite", and then later has "Aucanquilcha itself began erupting ... heavily glaciated andesite flows". Isn't this a contradiction?

  It's unclear whether Wörner et al were talking about the main Aucanquilcha volcano or the complex; I suspect they mixed them up. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

  What does the source actually say? If we are doubtful about its accuracy or if it's really unclear perhaps we shouldn't use it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:36, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  Volcan Aucanquilcha (6176 m a.s.1., 21°11 'SI68°35'W; 10 samples, 4 analysed) is a large complex of clustered stratovolcanoes forming an 8 km E-W chain. The central region of the edifice is strongly altered by fumarolic activity. Francis and Wells (1988) described a prominent collapse structure and resulting debris avalanche deposit towards the NNW. Deeply glaciated andesite flows are overlain by less eroded lavas at the base of the structure. Pristine morphology of some flows attests to rather recent (postglacial ?) eruptions within the past several tens of thousands of years, and thus extended eruptive activity at this complex, possibly over several Ma. Petrographic compositions range from andesite flows to dacite domes and dome complexes (62.8-65.7% SiOz). Sampling includes basal flows as well as postglacial lavas from around the structure and thus covers the entire history and range in rock types Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:09, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

  I think the start of that quote makes it clear that they're talking about the complex as a whole, so I don't think we can use this in the paragraph you have that starts "Aucanquilcha itself ...". Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:07, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

  Not sure about this; the Aucanquilcha complex is a circular cluster but they talk about a chain, which normally refers to the main volcano. Maybe we need to say something like "According to Wörner Aucanquilcha erupted both andesite and dacite, according to Klemetti only dacite" or since Klemetti is clearer about what they are talking about and more recent, we prioritize it i.e remove the "andesite" from the "heavily glaciated andesite"? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:12, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

  I am not sufficiently a subject matter expert to judge, but I think the current state of affairs is unacceptable since we have a contradiction (at least, apparently so) that is not commented on. I'll trust your judgement on the best way to get out of this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:09, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

  I removed the "andesite". I suspect that Wörner was lumping the outboard volcanoes and the main complex together, but we don't need to speculate. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 06:58, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

• I'm not clear on the difference between "Aucanquilcha proper" as you call it at one point, and the group or cluster named at the start of the "Stages" subsection. Is this article just about Aucanquilcha proper? If so the eruptive history seems to be too detailed. If the article is about more than just Aucanquilcha, it seems the article would need to be retitled to "Aucanquilcha cluster". Or is it that the lead should say something like "Aucanquilcha is a cluster of volcanos in the Antofagasta Region, and is also the name of one of the largest volcanoes in that group"? You say "Aucanquilcha complex" at one point, and at another say it's part of a "quasi-circular cluster", but I'm not clear if these are all the same thing.

  This is the problem when different people use the same term for different concepts. This article covers the entire complex, but some folks subdivide it into several subvolcanoes, one of which is in turn subdivided into several stages. This article is meant to focus mostly on this subvolcano with some references to the other subvolcanoes. Part of the reason is that at times it's unclear whether the source refers to the complex or the main volcano in it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

  I can see why that makes it hard, but I don't think we can import source uncertainty into our article, and I think the topic of this article has to be clear to the reader. Currently it's not. Part of what is bothering me is that I can't tell from what you say if we need a separate article called Aucanquilcha cluster. If we do need that article, then this article seems too detailed; if we don't, because this article covers the whole cluster sufficiently, that should be clear in the lead. And it sounds like in that case you would want to expand the article further, since you say it only has some references to other subvolcanoes, implying that more could be said. Does the lack of clarity in the sources mean that we have included any material which is ambiguous about what it refers to? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:49, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  I don't think there is enough written on most of these other volcanoes for individual articles, and it seems like most sources do not discuss the cluster exclusively without discussing the main volcano extensively. Most volcanoes in the CVZ are little more than their names. With that in mind, I don't think you can carry out a significant reorganization without creating other problems. I think trimming or footnoting the history of the cluster might be reasonable so that it doesn't take up this much space; might this work (i.e to focus on the main complex)? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:09, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

  I am not familiar enough with the sources to make that call, but in principle I think you could go in either direction with this article. My problem right now is that I can't tell which is intended; the intro seems to be talking about the main cluster but we have this extra detail. If you were to write articles about everything in the CVZ, where would the larger cluster fit? As a subsection in the overall CVZ article? As its own article? As a subsection of an article about the main Aucanquilcha volcano (e.g. more or less what you have, but rewritten slightly so it's clear to the reader this is context? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:18, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

  I would write them in a subsection to Aucanquilcha - nobody seems to write about the Aucanquilcha cluster except with reference to the main volcano there. Maybe with the exception of Miño since that one has dedicated sources. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 06:58, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

  OK, that seems reasonable. A couple of possible edits in that case:

  • In the first para of the lead, perhaps add "sometimes referred to as the Aucanquilcha cluster [or complex]" at the appropriate point (or whatever descriptive phrase you can source). I think it would be good to make it clear to the reader early in the article that "Aucanquilcha" is going to refer to two different things.
  • How about moving the second-to-last para of "Geography and geomorphology" to the end, and giving it a subsection heading of "Aucanquilcha complex" or "Local context" or something like that? That would continue the separation of the two concepts for the reader.
  • In "Magma output and evolution" start with "The surrounding Aucanquilcha complex", and then in the second sentence make it "The long-term magma output of Aucanquilcha itself".
  • Similarly in "Eruptive history", start with something like "Volcanic activity of the overall Aucanquilcha cluster...".
  • Then split "Stages" into two subsections: "Stages of the parent cluster" and "Stages of Aucanquilcha proper" (again use whatever wording you think is best; it's the division that I think matters).
  • I haven't scanned for every use of "Aucanquilcha" to see if it's ambiguous, but you might do that. -- e.g. "As of 2021 Aucanquilcha was not monitored" is pretty clearly about the main volcano. If every other reference is unambiguous then I think that's all that's needed.

  -- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:13, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

  Did this sectioning, although giving the second to last para a heading is IMO excessive. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:01, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

  I think it's OK, but remove it if you hate it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:36, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

  Removed. JoJo Eumerus mobile (main talk) 08:29, 30 August 2026 (UTC)

• A related comment is that a map would be helpful -- the topographic map is great but too detailed for the reader to answer simple layout questions with it. A map showing the main Aucanquilcha volcano and the locations of half a dozen or so of the most important locations mentioned in the article would be a helpful reference.

  No doubt, but I must confess I don't know how to make one. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

  I won't oppose on this, but I am going to leave it unstruck; you could try posting at WP:MAPREQ. I think it would really benefit the article. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:49, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  I parked a request, but I wonder if cropping the current topo map would work too. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:09, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

  You could try that, but I'm dubious. When I've tried crops of other maps I've found it hard to get the right level of detail -- for orienting the reader to where all these names in the article are on the map you don't want a lot of distracting details. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:09, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

• "A vent at 6,116 metres (20,066 ft) altitude fed most of this edifice": surely we can't be precise to a metre about the source of cubic miles of lava?
• Converting 1 cm to 0.39 inches is too precise; if you keep the conversions in the article this needs to lose the last decimal place.

  Let's hope I remembered the parameters correctly for the fix. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "The time course of its activity": can we simplify this to "The timing of its activity"?

  Sure, done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• Does the 45 square kilometer glaciation extent refer to the maximum extent of the ice cap? Given that the rest of that paragraph makes it clear the edge of the cap was variable I think we should make this clearer.

  I suspect so, but the source isn't explicit. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

  What does the source say? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:50, 26 August 2026 (UTC)

  During glacial times the ice cap on the volcano was extremely extensive (~45 km), since moraines can be traced continuously over the high plateau south of the main ridge, reaching down to approximately 4600 m. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:09, 27 August 2026 (UTC)

  I think this is good enough to say that the maximum was at least 45 km². How about making the first sentence "During glacials an ice cap covered the volcano...", and then "The altitude of the ice edge ranged between 4500-5200 m, with lower altitudes reached on the eastern and southeastern side, and a maximum extent of about 45 km²"? That also cuts "exact", which I don't think should be there. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:33, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

  Done, but used "representative" since we don't know for certain that it was a maximum. Consider that volcanic cones flatten downward, so that 100m between 4600 and 4500 might add more than the 600 between 4600 and 5200. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:26, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

  Struck, but I think "maximum of at least" would be justified, and even perhaps slightly better than "representative", since the source is clear that the 45 km² figure refers to all the area with moraines. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:11, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 06:58, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

• "It produced sulfur ore with a grade of 30%": I clicked on grade to see what was meant by "30%", but it's linked to grade (slope, which presumably is not what you meant?

  Foxed. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "who subsequently established the Compañía Minera y Azufrera Carrasco S.A in 1933, first at Ollagüe and after 1950 in Amincha": I don't think we need "subsequently" since we have a year, 1933. But what does the last part of the sentence refer to? The sentence is about establishing a company, not starting mining operations, which I think is what is intended.

  Rewritten. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• "They indicated that the Aymara miners are fully acclimatized to the altitude": the present tense surprised me because the article makes it clear there is no longer any mining, but I think the intention is something like "the local Aymara people, who had been the miners". The study was in 1942 when mining was still going on, so how about: "A 1942 study indicated that the local Aymara people, then employed as miners, were fully acclimated ..."?

  I don't think attribution ought to be used in this manner, so I changed the tense instead. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

• Should the last sentence say "only a small fraction of the European mineworkers ..."?

  The source doesn't specify such a restriction. I suspect the Aymara mineworkers in the hut are the subset that can handle this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2026 (UTC)

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:24, 22 August 2026 (UTC)

Support. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:36, 29 August 2026 (UTC)

Volcanoguy

I was not going to review this article because of your concerns on my FAC and myself being busy working on an article draft, but I changed my mind.

• "The volcano has the form of a ridge with a maximum height of 6176 m" – "Height" is ambiguous in this context. It can refer to elevation or topographic prominence.

  Specified. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "The volcano is part of a larger cluster of volcanoes sometimes known as the "Aucanquilcha cluster" or "Aucanquilcha complex", including lava domes and lava flows, which formed in several stages over 11 million years of activity with varying magma output." This is a rather long sentence. I'd split it as "The volcano is part of a larger cluster of volcanoes sometimes known as the "Aucanquilcha cluster" or "Aucanquilcha complex". This cluster includes lava domes and lava flows that have formed in several stages over 11 million years of activity with varying magma output."

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• To the north lies the 3.3 million years old andesite Cerro Tres Monos ridge; to the west lies the east-west Cerro Polan and La Luna ridge." → "To the north lies the 3.3 million-year-old andesitic Cerro Tres Monos ridge; to the west lies the east–west Cerro Polan and La Luna ridge."

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "It has the classic hummocky topography of landslides and covers a length of 17 km and a surface area of 35 km2, roughly half of the surface area of the Mount St Helens avalanche of 1980 and one-third of the surface area of the Ollagüe avalanche." → "It has the classic hummocky topography of landslides and covers a length of 17 km and a surface area of 35 km2; this is roughly half of the surface area of the Mount St Helens avalanche of 1980 and one-third of the surface area of the Ollagüe avalanche."

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "The cluster lies on a 70 km thick crust" – No "a" needed.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Off the western coast of South America, the Nazca Plate subducts beneath the South America Plate at a rate of 7 °Cm/year." I think you mean "7 cm per year"; see WP:SLASH.

  Buh, that was a copypaste error; fixed. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "which are separated by gaps without volcanic activity." Maybe link "gaps without volcanic activity" to magmatic lull?

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "the average rate of 0.11 km3/ka" – WP:SLASH.

  Pretty sure that this is the default output of the template, and hence something more suited to Template talk:Val and Template talk:Convert? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Rocks are typically silicic or have intermediate compositions" – I'd suggest linking "intermediate" to intermediate composition.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "and volcanic and volcano-sedimentary rocks from the Cenozoic" – I'd suggest linking "volcano-sedimentary rocks" to volcano-sedimentary sequence.

  Didn't do this as I am not sure they are actually the same thing. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Basaltic andesites typically are less than 10% crystals" – Basaltic andesite has an article.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Various parts of the main volcano have been subjected to hydrothermal alteration[37] and alteration by fumarolic activity" – Can be shortened by saying "Various parts of the main volcano have been subjected to hydrothermal and fumarolic alteration".

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "(0.1 to 0.2 km3/ka, followed by 0.01 to 0.02 km3/ka)" – WP:SLASH. I see other instances like this throughout the article.

  See above. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "located at the edge of the Altiplano-Puna volcanic complex" – En dash instead of a hyphen.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Crustal rocks were absorbed in the magma, especially the more evolved (dacitic) ones" – No need for brackets around "dacitic".

  In this case I think the distinction is important. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Magma and included crystals being drawn from depths of 3 to 23 km during the main Aucanquilcha stage of volcanism" – Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think "being" should be replaced with "were".

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Based on geothermometric data, the highest temperatures occurred during phases of high activity and lower temperatures are associated with low output periods." – I think "and" should be replaced with "while" and "are" should be placed with "were".

  Did the first, but since the volcano isn't extinct I left the other one. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Volcanic activity of the overall Aucanquilcha cluster commenced 11 million years ago." – No need for "overall".

  Removed. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "From 6-5 million years ago, activity increased, and at the same time the magmas became more uniform in composition and strong hydrothermal alteration commenced." – En dash instead of a hyphen.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Activity waned 2-1 million years ago:" – En dash instead of a hyphen.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Eruptions occurred every 50,000-100,000 years, with breaks as long as 250,000 years." – En dash instead of a hyphen.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "The age of the lava flows ranges from heavily glaciated flows underlying less-eroded ones to possibly postglacial lava flows that may be tens of thousands of years old." – What does "heavily glaciated flows underlying less-eroded ones to possibly postglacial lava flows" have to do with an age range? The only age I see is "tens of thousands of years old".

  Glaciation is used as a proxy for age on many of these volcanoes. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "The Alconcha group, with seven volcanoes, is constructed from andesite and dacite and formed 11–8 million years ago." – I think the end of this sentence should be "andesite and dacite that was erupted 11–8 million years ago".

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "The dacitic Ujina ignimbrite was erupted 9.4 million years from an unknown vent" – 9.4 million years ago.

  Done and similar requests. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Coscalito dome dated 8.9–8.7 million years and Cerro Amincha 8.01" – 8.9–8.7 million years old. Should clarify what "8.01" means (i.e. 8.01 million years old).

• "Cerro Gordo itself (5.49 million years) has a crater that is breached westwards" → "Cerro Gordo itself (5.49 million years old) has a crater that is breached to the west".

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "lava field on its western side that is dated 4.9 million years" – 4.9 million years old.

• "Cerro Puquíos and Cerro Negro (5.81–5.28 million years)" – 5.81–5.28 million years old.

• "Paco Paco (4.41–4.27 million years)" – 4.41–4.27 million years old.

• "Volcan Pabellón (4.14–4.12 million years)" – 4.14–4.12 million years old.

• "The Las Bolitas lava field (5.23–5.13 million years)" – 5.23–5.13 million years old.

• "The total volume of this group" – The total volume of what?

  Of the Alconcha group. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "The 3.6–2.3 million years Polan group" – The 3.6–2.3 million-year-old Polan group

• "Cerro Polan's (3.5–3 million years)" – 3.5–3 million years old.

• "La Luna (2.97–2.57)" – 2.97–2.57 million years old.

• "La Luna has a lava dome surrounded by a glaciated but unaltered lava table." – What is a "lava table"?

  Presumably a table form lava flow? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "Cerro Tres Monos (3.4–2.78 million years)" – 3.4–2.78 million years old.

• "The Aucanquilcha platform (3.6–2.7 million years)" – 3.6–2.7 million years old.

• "Its southern side is a 4500 m table with one hill, Cerro Campana, dated to 3.3 million years." – 3.3 million years old.

• "Chaihuiri (2.39 million years)" – 2.39 million years old.

• "Between 1.04 and 0.92 million years during the Azufrera stage" – Between 1.04 and 0.92 million years ago.

• "A vent at 6116 m altitude fed most of this edifice" – The wording here is kinda awkward. Maybe "A vent at 6116 m altitude fed most of the lavas forming this edifice"?

  I am not sure it's only lavas. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "The second stage, named Rodado, lasted from 0.95 to 0.85 million years" → "The second stage, named Rodado, lasted 0.95 to 0.85 million years ago".

• "They are also less weathered (oxidation rinds are c. 1 °Cm thick)" – I think you meant "c. 1 cm thick".

  Fixed. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "it may have occurred between 1–0.47 million years" – 1–0.47 million years ago. Also, do not mix en dashes with between or from per MOS:RANGE. There are other instances like this throughout the article.

  I think I got these, save one which I left. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "but most likely 0.6–0.5 million years" – 0.6–0.5 million years ago.

• "lasted from 0.66 to 0.2–0.23 million years." → lasted 0.66 to 0.2–0.23 million years ago.

  Left the "from" since it's the starter. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "The exact altitude of the ice edge ranged between 4500 and 5200 m[l][25][140] with lower altitudes reached on the eastern and southeastern side,[141] and a maximum of at least 45 km²." – This sentence is poorly writen.

  Recast. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "At least two distinct glacier stages took place." – When?

  Unknown. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

• "They indicated that the Aymara miners were fully acclimatized to the altitude, with less hyperventilation and higher hemoglobin than acclimatized people from lower areas,[192][193] and are more tolerant of the high altitude than the researchers who studied them in 1942,[194] although some European workers also managed to tolerate the environment.[127]" – Long sentence.

  I have split it, but I dunno if there is a replacement for one of the "tolerate" that could be used. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:33, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

Volcanoguy 02:11, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

@Volcanoguy, how is this looking? FrB.TG (talk) 14:16, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

Source review by Noleander

• Overall, sources appear to be high-quality, reliable sources as required by WP:RS and WP:HIGHQUALITY.

• Alphabetized source list? Mostly alphabetical, but I see this one seems out of order: "Volcán Aucanquilcha". www.andeshandbook.org. Archived from the original on 2024-12-08. Retrieved 2025-01-18.

  Fixed that as per below. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:28, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

• Publisher / credibiitly: this source seems okay, but can the publisher be included in the source to demonstrate credibility: "Volcán Aucanquilcha". www.andeshandbook.org. Archived from the original on 2024-12-08. Retrieved 2025-01-18.

  Added and realphabetized; apparently it is cited sometimes. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:28, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

• Is an external URL link available for this source Jenny, Bettina; Kammer, Klaus (1996). Climate Change in den trockenen Anden (in German). Verlag des Geographischen Institutes der Universität Bern. pp. 49–50. ISBN 3906151034. Is this the same article: https://www.geography.unibe.ch/services/geographica_bernensia/online_publications/gb2023g46/index_eng.html Even if the full text is not online, a URL will at least give readers a starting place to search.

  Added the DOI. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:28, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

• This table lists 5 random passages from throughout the article (1.7% of 289 total passages). These passages contain 5 inline citations (1.6% of 312 in the article). Reference numbers refer to this revision. Generated with the Veracity user script. Noleander (talk) 14:13, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

Reference #	Letter	Source	Archive	Status	Notes
To the north lies the 3.3 million-year-old andesite Cerro Tres Monos ridge; to the west lies the east-west Cerro Polan and La Luna ridge.
21	c	Klemetti & Grunder 2007, p. 634.		Y
while the Aucanquilcha complex produced both andesite and dacite. Andesites appear as lava flows while dacites form lava domes and dome complexes.
19	b	Wörner et al. 1994, p. 83.		Y
The Alconcha group, with seven volcanoes, is constructed from andesite and dacite that was erupted 11–8 million years ago. It consists of two northern composite cones, Alconcha and Volcan Tuco (also known as Cerro Garage, dated 10.96–10.51 million years), and five lava domes on the northeastern side of the cluster. Alconcha has a large breach on the southern side of its crater that is likely the product of a flank collapse
93	b	Grunder et al. 2008, p. 419.		Y
permafrost occurs down to 4385 m altitude.
134		Yoshikawa et al. 2025, p. 5.		Y
a relic network of roads leading up to 5900 m
21	j	Klemetti & Grunder 2007, p. 634.		Y

• @Jo-Jo Eumerus: - Everything looks great, but I need:
  1. Two small quotes from sources (see red text in table above)
  2. I have a couple of questions (above about publisher & URL) for a couple of sources.

Noleander (talk) 14:12, 19 September 2026 (UTC)

Grunder 2008 and Klemetti & Grunder 2007 but service:

• • Grunder 2008: "The Alconcha Group is made up of the two composite cones on the northern side of the AVC, Cerro Alconcha, and Volca´n Tuco, and a string of five endogenous dome and flow complexes in the northeast sector ", "Alconcha Group (11 to 8 Ma)", "Cerro Alconcha has a great breach in its crater open to the south. " "a landslide block within the amphitheatre suggests that catastrophic collapse and avalanche deposits are likely to be covered by younger volcanic deposits and alluvium" but added a page because the dacite and the landslide block is only mentioned on the second page.
  • Klemetti and Grunder 2007: "a relict network of roads still exists on the edifice to nearly 5,900 m"

Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:28, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

• Pass source review. Excellent article, as always. Noleander (talk) 17:20, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

FYI I'm seeing a red error message on the citation for Sociedad Geográfica de Documentación Andina 2025. Noleander (talk) 17:23, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

Fixed. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 20:24, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

Mike Enzi

Nominator(s): Jon698 (talk) 17:41, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

This article is about Mike Enzi, the third-longest serving U.S. Senator from Wyoming. The son of a shoemaker, he entered politics after being convinced to run for mayor of Gillette, Wyoming in 1974. He defeated the incumbent mayor and was reelected, but left office after declining to run for reelection in 1982. He was elected to the Wyoming House of Representatives and was later appointed to the Wyoming Senate. In 1996, he was elected to his first of four terms in the U.S. Senate. During his tenure in the U.S. Senate he served as chair or ranking member of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, and Budget committees. He ended his political career when he left the U.S. Senate in January 2021, but died in a biking accident months later. Jon698 (talk) 17:41, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

There are some important details that people should know because I think these comments will be asked. The section for his time in the Wyoming legislature is rather small because the Wyoming legislature is the least active legislature in the US. The body only meets for 40 days and half of that is allocated to making the budget. Jon698 (talk) 17:43, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

Over the past few months I went over every reference in the article (I changed the format to know which ones I already went through). I also searched through JSTOR, Project MUSE, Brill, De Gruyter, and Taylor & Francis through the Wikipedia Library for additional sources. Jon698 (talk) 20:16, 13 July 2026 (UTC)

I will be able to do research for the content suggestions below starting on Sunday. Jon698 (talk) 21:34, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

• I was just looking at Wikipedia:Featured articles promoted in 2026 and Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Featured log/July 2026 for my own reference and saw that the minimum for a passing FAC is three supports. Would that be correct? Jon698 (talk) 01:30, 3 August 2026 (UTC)

• @Ian Rose: Just wanted to notify you that this nomination has been opened for one month and the last reviewer comment was ten days ago. Jon698 (talk) 04:56, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

Nikkimaria

Image review

• Suggest adding alt text. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:32, 13 July 2026 (UTC)

• Done. Jon698 (talk) 20:21, 13 July 2026 (UTC)

ZKang123

I will take a look at this.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 13:31, 13 July 2026 (UTC)

Lead:

• Just a bit of clarification, but the Air National Guard is considered part of the Air Force?

• It is a reserve of the Air Force. I removed the mention of it in the first sentence since it is not extremely relevant to him. I don't know who added it. Jon698 (talk) 18:57, 14 July 2026 (UTC)

No issues I can really find for Early life and education

Career:

• State representative Alan Simpson convinced Enzi to run for mayor of Gillette in 1974. Just curious, but is it known how Enzi met Simpson?

• I tried searching for this information on Newspapers.com, but nothing popped up.

• ... mayor of Gillette in 1974... incumbent Mayor Cliff Davis Why is the later Mayor capitalised?

• I made "incumbent Mayor" lowercase in this edit

• Two city council seats were vacated within a one month span of April to May 1976, by the resignations of Ed Geringer and Jack Babcock Might rewrite to: Ed Geringer and Jack Babcock resigned within a month of each other in April and May 1976, leaving two city council seats vacant.

• Done in this edit

• Also, is it know why they resigned?

• According to the source Babcock was moving outside of the city limits and Geringer was doing so for personal reasons. There are no other newspaper reports on what those personal reasons were. How would you like me to add this information to the article?

• Like Geringer cited personal reasons for stepping down, while Babcock was moving out of the city Or smth to that effect. Perhaps as a footnote or inline.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 01:27, 20 July 2026 (UTC)

• Done in this edit

• Enzi was appointed to serve on the National League of Cities' community development committee. Was appointed by who?

• The National League of Cities itself according to the source

• Is it also known when he joined the Republican party and why?

• I don't think it is possible to find that information. Unless the person has an interesting reason for joining a party then nobody is going to report on it.

• It was widely speculated that Enzi might run to succeed him Widely speculated by whom?

• Done in this edit

• Senator Kelly Mader resigned on December 9, 1991, due to him having moved his family to Denver, Colorado, and starting a business there. Reads a bit awkwardly. Might rewrite to: Senator Kelly Mader resigned on 9 December 1991 after moving with his family to Denver, Colorado, where he started a business.

• Done in this edit

• In the elections subsection, is it actually necessary to know how much his opponents spent?

• It adds a lot of context. For example: A race where you beat your opponent 90%-10% after they spent $5 is far different from a race where you beat your opponent 90%-10% after they spent $5 million.

Will continue reviewing.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 04:16, 14 July 2026 (UTC)

Political positions:

• Opposed to the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act, Enzi voted to sustain a filibuster against it stating that it violated the First Amendment rights of interest groups to contribute money in 1997 and 1998 Would suggest spliting the sentence. Also, I find the part "Opposed to the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act" an odd dangling modifier

• Done in this edit

• Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin be aware of WP:SEAOFBLUE

• I removed the wikilink for Treasury Secretary in this edit

• 16 Republican senators, including Enzi, cosponsored legislation in 2018, that would suspend the 22% tariff on newsprint from Canada Would try to avoid starting a sentence with a figure

• Done in this edit

• The environment section could perhaps be reorganised chronologically

• Done in this edit

• Legislation in the Wyoming state senate which would declare all same-sex marriages in the United States invalid in Wyoming was supported by Enzi This sentence is a bit complex.

• Altered in this edit

• Same for this sentence: The Burmese Freedom and Democracy Act, which eliminated American imports from Myanmar, placed restrictions on the visas of Myanmar's leaders, and required American opposition to international financial institutions giving loans to Myanmar, was passed in 2003, with Enzi as the only senator to vote against it.

• Altered in this edit

My overall impression is that this is a neat article on his political career, especially based on the local sources available, but I felt there isn't much that really elaborated in his political views (like why was he opposed to estate tax and raising the minimum wage, or why he joined the Republican Party). However, if these explanations/analysis aren't known or covered anywhere (given he might not be that prominent of a politician), then I think the article is fine as is.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 06:33, 17 July 2026 (UTC)

@ZKang123: I have responded to all of your comments above. I had a question for the point about "Also, is it know why they resigned?" Jon698 (talk) 18:18, 19 July 2026 (UTC)

@Jon698: Satisfied with the responses. I also replied to one of your questions.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 01:27, 20 July 2026 (UTC)

@ZKang123: Thank you for your comments. Could you change the heading to "ZKang123 (Support)" or "Support from ZKang123"? Jon698 (talk) 19:13, 20 July 2026 (UTC)

Support --ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:02, 21 July 2026 (UTC)

Metalicat

• Scope: I have done a non-specialist prose, structure and internal-consistency pass, concentrating on reader-facing issues.

• Following on from ZKang123's Air National Guard question above, the account of Enzi's military service is internally inconsistent. The infobox gives the United States Air Force and Wyoming Air National Guard, and the lead calls him an Air Force veteran who served in the Air National Guard, but the body says Enzi served in the Wyoming Army National Guard. The same passage links Officer Candidate School to the United States Navy. Which branch and unit do the sources support? Sorry if I've misunderstood this.

• I removed Air Force veteran from the lede in an earlier edit stated in ZKang123's section. I also chose to replace US Air Force in the infobox with Air National Guard. The Officer Candidate School is linked to since it "rejected Enzi due to glycosuria".

• The final lead paragraph gives the wrong chronology:
  • He served until he declined to seek reelection in 2020, and was succeeded by Cynthia Lummis.

• Changed to "reelection in the 2020 election" in this edit

• • The body says that he announced his retirement on 5 May 2019 and remained in office until January 2021. Something like He announced in 2019 that he would not seek reelection in 2020 and left office in January 2021, when Cynthia Lummis succeeded him. would resolve that.

• In the opening paragraph, the third longest-serving U.S. Senator from Wyoming Recommend: the third-longest-serving U.S. senator from Wyoming.

• Done in this edit

• The Wyoming Legislature section starts with the 1986 election and the 1988 and 1990 reelections, then jumps backwards to John Ostlund's 1978 gubernatorial campaign and speculation about Enzi succeeding him. I suggest that the 1978 material would read more naturally in Local politics, or before the account of the 1986 election.

• I believe it is easier to read in its current state as the section's paragraph are organized right now as state house elections, state senate appointment and election, and then tenure.

• The balance of the United States Senate coverage needs another look. Enzi served for 24 years, but the Tenure section devotes a full long paragraph to the 1997 laptop dispute and another largely to awards and ratings. His policy record is then presented mainly as a catalogue of individual votes under Political positions. Could the Senate material be reorganised around the work and subjects that defined his tenure, with the laptop episode and less significant one-off details compressed? The lead would then need to summarise those central themes.

• There are not too many modern U.S. Senators with FAs so it is hard to find a good format. John McCain (which was promoted all the way back in 2008 so not too good of an example) has an entirely seperate page for his political positions. I do have one FA (Beverly White) and it uses the same format that Mike Enzi has. I think it is easier for the reader if all of the stuff they said or voted on goes into a political positions section while the positions they sought, committee stuff, and other non-political stuff goes into the tenure section. Jon698 (talk) 19:28, 20 July 2026 (UTC)

• The electoral-history table:
  • Its screen-reader caption is Electoral history of Kurt Wright. This should be Electoral history of Mike Enzi.

• Fixed

• • Every party-colour cell contains the malformed attribute style="background-color:{{party color|Republican Party (United States)}};";". The extra ;" should be removed throughout.

• Done in this edit

• • The prose says that Enzi and the other representatives won the 1990 election against Democratic opponents, but the table places 4,414 votes under the primary columns and marks the general election as not applicable. Please check the election source and reconcile the prose and table.

• I was unable to find any newspaper reporting on the final election results and emailing the Wyoming election authorities produced no results. The source for Enzi's general election victory only has 20 of 32 precincts reporting so I can't use that for the electoral table. Would you prefer if I added "missing data" instead to the table?

• The laptop paragraph:
  • On November 5, the Rules committee voted against allowing Enzi to bring his laptop onto the floor, Rick Santorum was the only member that voted to allow laptops onto the floor.
  • Suggested: On November 5, the committee voted against allowing Enzi to bring his laptop onto the floor. Rick Santorum was the only member to support the proposal.

• Done in this edit

• • As of 2018, all personal electronic devices are still prohibited from the floor. uses relative wording; suggest As of 2018, personal electronic devices remained prohibited from the floor.

• Done in this edit

• This sentence is grammatically broken and repeats “signed”:
  • In 2020, signed amicus brief calling for the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade was signed by 168 representatives and 39 senators, including Enzi.
  • Suggested: In 2020, Enzi was among 39 senators and 168 representatives who signed an amicus brief calling for the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade.

• Done in this edit

• Questioning what objectives would be achieved or interested served should be Questioning what objectives would be achieved or interests served.

• Done in this edit

• The gun-rights paragraph has faulty parallelism and a missing full stop. In would require background checks ... regulate the transfer of firearms ... and banning the importation, “banning” should be ban. A full stop is also needed after “parent” and before the citation in the sentence about juveniles possessing semi-automatic weapons.

• Done in this edit

• several minor citation-metadata errors:
  • The Jacey Fortin citation is labelled as a New York Times obituary, but its main url= points to the Newspapers.com clipping used for “DeMolays Elect”. Its archived URL points to the obituary.
  • The Ursula Perano citation links to Axios but identifies the work as Vox.
  • The 9 November 1997 Eric Schmitt citation to The New York Times repeats the title of the 10 August Casper Star-Tribune article, although its URL and Harvard target identify a different article.
  • The Kyle Roerink citation repeats the title of the Burns, Kopan and Hohmann Politico article, but its URL points to a different Casper Star-Tribune piece about Cheney criticising a poll. The title should match the linked article.
  • The Iraq war resolution target contains a stray closing parenthesis in both {{sfn|H.J. Res. 114)|2002}} and its {{harvid}} target.

• I have corrected all of that in this edit

• The depth of newspaper research is a genuine strength; the Casper Star-Tribune coverage of the mayoral and legislative years documents a local career far more thoroughly than most biographies manage. Nothing above is structural apart from the Senate-balance question, and I will be glad to revisit once these points are addressed. Metalicat (talk) 19:20, 14 July 2026 (UTC)

  @Metalicat: I have responded to all of your points above. Jon698 (talk) 19:29, 20 July 2026 (UTC)

Thanks Jon698, that's a thorough set of responses and most of it has landed cleanly. Three things still open, plus a few I picked up on the re-read.

Military service

This one hasn't been resolved, and I think the change may have gone in the wrong direction. The problem wasn't that the infobox said Air Force; it was that the infobox and lead say Air National Guard while the body says Enzi served in the Wyoming Army National Guard. The article still contradicts itself, and now the infobox and lead agree with each other rather than with the sourced sentence. What does Fortin actually say? Whichever it is, the infobox branch and unit, the lead and the body all need to match.

• On the Officer Candidate School link: my question was about the target, which is Officer Candidate School (United States Navy). If Enzi was joining the Army or Air National Guard, a Navy OCS rejection is unexpected, and a reader will assume it's a linking slip. Does the 1996 reporting specify the branch? If it doesn't, an unpiped link or a general one would be safer.

• Correct to state in the body that he served in the Wyoming Air National Guard in this edit. The source states that he was applying for the navy.

The 1990 table row

To answer your question directly: yes, please replace {{n/a}} with something indicating the figures aren't available. As it stands the table asserts that no general election took place, which contradicts the prose saying all three representatives won against Democratic opponents. "Not available" or a similar marker is honest about the gap, whereas n/a makes a claim. Keep the Casper Star-Tribune general-election citation on the row so the "Won" is still supported. Not being able to find precinct-complete returns for a 1990 state house race is entirely reasonable and no reviewer will hold it against you; asserting the wrong thing to fill the cell is the only real problem.

• Done in this edit

Senate coverage, reframed

Your reasoning on the political positions format is fair. But I don't think layout was really my point, and I'd like to put it differently.

• The Tenure section covers 24 years in three paragraphs: the laptop dispute, lobbying for Frist plus three awards, and a list of impeachment and Supreme Court votes. The Committees section is a record of who he succeeded and when. Between them, the article never says what Enzi did as chair of Health, Education, Labor and Pensions from 2005, or of Budget from 2015. No bill he wrote or led is described, apart from the Sacagawea dollar and the biennial budgeting proposal, both of which sit in Political positions.

• I have added a section in the tenure sub-section that includes two resolutions he sponsored and a law he sponsored. If you read the review from the person below, you will see that Enzi only wrote 16 bills that were passed into law. I also moved the ideological sub-section into the tenure sub-section.

• Being a chair of a committee seems like he would be doing a lot, but he is just presiding over the meetings, overseeing deliberation, and overseeing decorum.

• Two of your own sources point at the gap. Straub 2005 is titled "An effective compromiser" but is cited only for the fact that he succeeded Judd Gregg. Wheeler 2021 is "Former U.S. Sen. Mike Enzi Remembered For Political Career, Bipartisanship" but is cited only for his being third-longest-serving. Both look as though they contain career assessment that hasn't made it into the article, and there's currently no section where such material would live.

• I used the Wheeler 2021 reference to add in a sentence about his 80/20 rule for bipartisan compromise.

• Relatedly, the lead has nothing at all from Political positions, which is roughly half the body. WP:LEAD asks it to summarise the whole article.

• I added "He was ideologically conservative, but was also one of the most bipartisan Republicans in the U.S. Senate." in this edit

Broken sentences

• The Campaign finance section opens with a stray link and a duplicated one: Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act, Enzi was an opponent of the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act stating that it violated the First Amendment rights of interest groups.

• Fixed in this edit

• In Wyoming Legislature: It speculated by the Casper Star-Tribune that Enzi might run to succeed him. Suggest The Casper Star-Tribune speculated that Enzi might run to succeed him.

• Done in this edit

• Enzi supported legislation in the Wyoming state senate which would declare all same-sex marriages in the United States invalid in Wyoming doesn't quite parse. Do you mean marriages performed in other states?

• Yes. The sentence is saying that all same-sex marriages in the US would not be recognized in Wyoming.

• Enzi supported legislation to repeal legislation that phased out incandescent light bulbs repeats "legislation".

• Changed to "Enzi supported repealing legislation" in this edit

Internal inconsistencies

• The lead says the third-longest-serving U.S. Senator from Wyoming while the body says the third-longest-serving senator from Wyoming. Per MOS:JOBTITLES the lowercase body version is right.

• Done in this edit

• The body says he succeeded Gregg as HELP chair in 2004; the succession box gives 2005–2007.

• The way that committee and leadership positions work is that they vote on who gets it before the next session starts. This means that Enzi was given the position in 2004, but officially took office in 2005.

• The lead says he was raised in Thermopolis, Wyoming, but the body has the family moving to Sheridan in 1952, when he was eight, and him graduating from Sheridan High School.

• Changed to "raised in Thermopolis and Sheridan, Wyoming" in this edit

• The lead chronology is better but still slightly off: He served until he declined to seek reelection in the 2020 election reads as though his service ended when he declined, whereas he announced in May 2019 and left office in January 2021.

• Altered to "He declined to seek reelection in the 2020 election and was succeeded by Cynthia Lummis." in this edit

• Craig Thomas appears in the Committees section as bare Thomas with no prior mention anywhere in the body, so a reader has no idea who he is. He also needs distinguishing from the two separate events both described as "Lott's resignation" (the 2002 leadership resignation and the 2007 Senate one).

• Fixed in this edit

Citations

• The Federal Election Commission entries carry dates that don't match what's being cited: "Mike Enzi 1996 campaign finance" is dated January 1995, "Charles Hardy 2014 campaign finance" and "Curt Gottshall 2014 campaign finance" are both dated January 2007, and "Chris Rothfuss 2008 campaign finance" is dated January 2001. These look like registration dates rather than the cycle being referenced.

• I removed the years in this edit

• "Enzi supports move to $1 coin" (June 16, 2013) gives work=Casper Morning Star. The Morning Star name fits the 1963 DeMolay item but not a 2013 one.

• Corrected in this edit

• "Campbell rancher appointed to House" is dated January 4, 1992 but its harvid is 1991, so the short citation and the full citation disagree on year.

• Corrected in this edit

• {{sfn|Barilleaux|Kelley|2010|pp=207-208}} uses a hyphen where the rest of the article uses en dashes.

• Changed in this edit

• In Books, Barilleaux and Kelley is listed third, after Barr and Clymer.

• Moved in this edit

• Were the 1997 and 1998 filibuster votes on the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act as such, or on earlier McCain–Feingold bills? Naming a 2002 statute for a 1997 vote may be reading the later name backwards.

• The 2002 statue was proposed in previous years. That is how legislation works.

Small things

• gave Enzi a F rating should be an F rating.

• Done in this edit

• "That" is used for people throughout: 24 U.S. Senators that wrote, 16 Republican senators that cosponsored, one of two senators that voted, the 22 Republican senators that called, the 47 Republican members ... that signed. All want "who".

• Done in this edit

• The Public Interest Research Group gets a 0% rating while NARAL gets a zero percent rating.

• Done in this edit

• "A" ratings links to Grading systems by country, which isn't what the phrase means here.

• This link was added as a result of the Good Article nomination process. There is no formal rules about this, but unofficial practice is that earlier requests by editors should be honored.

• Committee is capitalised inconsistently: Finance committee, Budget Committee, Rules committee, Revenue committee.

• Made lowercase in this edit

• Immigration and flag desecration sit under Crime, and abortion under Equality. Both fit a little awkwardly. Metalicat (talk) 22:31, 20 July 2026 (UTC)

• I will look for more stuff on Enzi to see if I can expand immigration and abortion into their own sections. I don't see where else to put flag desecration since the legislation was to classify it as a criminal act.

• I made abortion its own sub-section in this edit. However, I'm surprised that there is pretty much nothing about him and abortion even after a basic Google search.

• @Metalicat: I have responded to all of your comments except the "Senate coverage, reframed" section. I will work on that soon. Jon698 (talk) 04:39, 23 July 2026 (UTC)

• @Metalicat: I have responded to all of your comments above. Jon698 (talk) 05:21, 27 July 2026 (UTC)

Third and last pass from me. Most of my second round has landed: I've checked the military service, the 1990 table row, the broken sentences, the "who" usage, the ratings, the capitalisation and the citation-metadata items in the current text and they're all good.

Sentences that don't work as written

• The Powell act is described as legislation which would have the 322 acres of federal land conveyed, and then as having been signed into law, so the sentence contradicts itself. Suggest The Powell Shooting Range Land Conveyance Act, which directed the Bureau of Land Management to convey 322 acres of federal land near Powell, Wyoming, to the Powell Recreation District, was sponsored by Enzi and signed into law in 2013.

• Done in this edit

• The same-sex marriage sentence still doesn't distinguish marriages performed elsewhere from marriages generally, which is the distinction you confirmed to me you meant. Enzi supported legislation in the Wyoming state senate that would have denied recognition in Wyoming to same-sex marriages performed in other states.

• Done in this edit

Citations

• Several shortened footnotes render as author surnames when they aren't authors. Reno 1998 points at a Casper Star-Tribune piece headlined "Reno asked to oppose assisted suicide", so it reads as though Janet Reno wrote it; the same goes for CSPAN 1997, Daly 1992 and Pastors 1998. Three Casper Star-Tribune items are also keyed to the paper plus a year while every other article from that title is keyed to its headline, and Stanton continued 1997 presents the two pages of one continued article as though they were separate works, which a single citation carrying both page numbers would avoid.

• I have changed Reno and CSPAN to use the full titles of the articles in this edit, but I cannot change the Daly and Pastors ones as those are the full titles on those pages. The Stanton references were fixed in this edit. The Casper Star-Tribune references were fixed in this edit

• Two of the books look like edited collections. Barilleaux and Kelley is entered with editor parameters, so the footnote credits the editors for a chapter written by someone else. Fifty Years of Revolution: Perspectives on Cuba, the United States, and the World reads like a collection too, but Mariño is entered as author. Can the chapter authors and titles be supplied for pp. 207–208 and p. 321? Metalicat (talk) 10:45, 27 July 2026 (UTC)

• I believe that doing that would complicate the references too much. It would also be misleading as it would make the viewer believe that person wrote the entire book. It is common to see editors listed like this. I also do not know how to implement your requested edits.

• @Metalicat: I have responded to all of your comments above. Jon698 (talk) 03:26, 29 July 2026 (UTC)

• @Metalicat: Courtesy ping Jon698 (talk) 08:43, 1 August 2026 (UTC)

  Support. Thanks for working on these points. Metalicat (talk) 20:44, 2 August 2026 (UTC)

Hurricanehink

Seeing that I have an FAC already open, and I'm a fan of U.S. political articles, I figured I should review.

Lead

• Enzi was born in Bremerton, Washington, raised in Thermopolis and Sheridan, Wyoming, and educated at Sheridan High School, George Washington University, and the University of Denver. - too much for one sentence. The lead is short enough that this can be explained in a few sentences.

• Made into two sentences in this edit

• He served in the Air National Guard, and held positions in the American Legion Boys State, DeMolay International, and United States Junior Chamber. - the National Guard is a lot different than the others, and it's also good resume for a future politician. So I was disappointed when the body of the article only had this small detail:

  " In 1996, Enzi stated that he tried to enlist to serve in the Vietnam War, but was ruled medically ineligible and joined the National Guard. Wyoming Veterans of Foreign Wars Commander Bill Saunders and others questioned how he could serve in the National Guard if he was medically ineligible for active service. " - this makes me wonder if there's more to the story. If that was in 1996, it was presumably before Enzi's Senate election campaign.

• I don't really see what you are asking for. He served for six years in the national guard of a minor state. Nothing to comment on.

• The article mentions that Bill Saunders questioned how he could serve in the National Guard if he was medically ineligible for active service. Did anything come of that? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:38, 25 July 2026 (UTC)

• I tried finding more about it on Newspapers.com, but the entire controversy happened just a few days before the 1996 election. A search for Bill Saunders on Newspapers.com in that period shows nothing new.

• He entered politics after being convinced by Alan Simpson to run for mayor of Gillette and defeating incumbent mayor Cliff Davis. - since that was his first position, you should add the year

• Done in this edit

• Elected to the U.S. Senate in 1996 - this glosses over Enzi's win in a crowded primary.

• Added to lede in this edit

• Did Enzi have any legislative achievements? Any notable bills he co-sponsored that could be mentioned in the lead? It seems like his proposal to get laptops on the Senate floor was the closest, and that failed (although that could be interesting in the lead if that's indicative of his legislative career)

• Enzi sponsored 659 bills according to Congress.gov. I will look there for any major bills he created.

• A further search shows that 16 were passed. This includes the Powell Shooting Range Land Conveyance Act and awarding a Congressional gold medal to Constantino Brumidi.

• I have added both of these to the tenure sub-section of the United States Senate

• Thanks, that gives a sense for what he actually did. And I think it would help if you could include any other of the bills. Like, even the renaming of the post office in Thermopolis, Wyoming, that's the sort of thing that Congress is known for these days, so mentioning that would be representative of his career. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 05:11, 28 July 2026 (UTC)

Early life

• When/how did Mike meet his wife?

• A review of Newspapers.com for Diana Buckley and Diana Enzi shows nothing containing that information. A Google Search just gives us articles with information like "They married in 1969." and nothing else. Even this longer piece about her does not describe it. Articles about her cancer diagnosis in 2006 also just state the date of their marriage and nothing else.

• Thanks for checking, sometimes that happens. I'm guessing Enzi never had a book written about him, so that info just might not be publicly known. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:38, 25 July 2026 (UTC)

Career

• Water was rationed in Gillette prior to a water pipeline being built during Enzi's tenure as mayor. - this seems like an actual achievement. Could you reword it, like, "As mayor, Enzi approved the construction of a new water pipeline."

• Done in this edit

• The Wyoming Legislature part is out of order

• It is not out of order. It is ordered this way: House elections, Senate elections, and Tenure

• "It starts with a 1986 election in the first paragraph, then the second paragraph starts by mentioning the 1978 election. Since it's about the mayorship, maybe the opening of the second paragraph should be moved to the mayor tenureship section? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:38, 25 July 2026 (UTC)

• I moved the bit about 1978 to be the start of the section in this edit

Political positions

• Enzi requested the United States Department of Justice to close the loophole of the Zone of Death in Idaho's section of the Yellowstone National Park.[119] Enzi was notified of this issue as it was covered in C. J. Box's 2007 novel Free Fire.[120] - this could use more detail

• I've expanded it in this edit. Not much more to say about it since the end result was the DOJ saying "We're aren't going to change anything". The Atlantic source also mentioned how Enzi never made more comments on the issue even when they reached out to him.

• Ah, thanks anyway. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 05:11, 28 July 2026 (UTC)

The article has some shortcomings. I'm willing to re-review, but I'm going to stop here for now. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:17, 24 July 2026 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink: I have answered or replied to all of your comments above. Jon698 (talk) 05:19, 26 July 2026 (UTC)

• "but was also one of the most bipartisan Republicans in the U.S. Senate." - the US Senate was very different in 2014 than it was in 1996, when it comes to bipartisanship. Can you point to any Democratic bills that Enzi co-sponsored?

• I have added another sentence showing his lifetime bipartisan score from the Lugar Center in this edit.

• "Enzi led the effort to create the Sacagawea dollar to honor the Native American guide Sacagawea and replace the Susan B. Anthony dollar despite other members of the U.S. Senate who wanted the coin to depict the Statue of Liberty, Clara Barton, Shirley Chisholm, Rosa Parks, Pocahontas, or another figure." - this is a bit too long. Could you split or add a semicolon?

• Divided into two sentences in this edit

• "John Perry and Enzi cosponsored legislation in 1986, which would make the assault and battery of people above the age of 65 a high misdemeanor.[125] He supported the use of capital punishment." - was the use of capital punishment for people assaulting people 65 and older? Its placement right next to it made me wonder.

• The two sentences are not related. I initially had them together as a general crime paragraph, but broke them up in this edit to make it clearer to readers that they are not related.

• Enzi was notified of this issue as it was covered in C. J. Box's 2007 novel Free Fire. - is this supposed to start the paragraph?

• Added a new starting sentence for the paragraph in this edit

• The Drug Enforcement Administration ruled that it was illegal to use controlled substances for assisted suicide and Enzi requested Attorney General Janet Reno to make comments against assisted suicide as he was "concerned that the proponents of assisted suicide could interpret her silence on the matter as an approval".[ - this is long, but could just be summarized that Enzi was against assisted suicide, right?

• I divided it into two sentences in this edit. I don't want to simply summarize it as "Enzi opposed assistant suicides" as the news article covers something more than that.

• I can't tell what order the Economics section is supposed to be. Like, I thought the moratorium on state land would be in Environment, not Economics. Also, the time periods keep going back and forth.

• I moved the state land sentence to environment in this edit and reordered the dates in this edit

• "The Public Interest Research Group gave Enzi a 0% rating for votes on environmental legislation conducted between March 1997 and March 1998." - what about over his whole career?

• I can't find any other scorecards from the Public Interest Research Group, but I will add the scorecard from League of Conservation Voters

• Done in this edit

• "Enzi supported Santorum's comments on Lawrence v. Texas in which Santorum stated that sodomy laws should be upheld stating that allowing sodomy would give people the right to incest, bigamy, and adultery." - complex sentence structure

• I altered the sentence in this edit

• "In 2000, Enzi asked Senator William Roth, the chair of the Finance committee, to implement geographic equity for Medicare spending in order to give money to rural healthcare." - did anything come of this?

• I looked online for more information, but nothing from 2000 shows up. A similar proposition from 2003 shows up as detailed on page 52 here.

That's it for my re-read. The article just seems a bit underdeveloped for a guy who was a US senator for 24 years. But maybe that's how he was a senator for 24 years. He was a conservative who didn't want the government to do things but restrict abortion, oppose minimum wage increases, oppose same sex marriage, oppose environmental legislation, oppose health care except when he wants more rural healthcare except for the parts of the ACA that helped rural healthcare, and he was against war in Kosovo but for war in Afghanistan/Iraq. He seems like a pretty boilerplate conservative republican, so it would make sense that his article would be pretty boilerplate. That's why I appreciated you going into detail about the bills Enzi sponsored and got passed (and hope you can add others). ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 05:11, 28 July 2026 (UTC)

• @Hurricanehink: I have responded to all of your comments above. I hope it is enough to receive your support for it becoming a FA. Jon698 (talk) 05:11, 30 July 2026 (UTC)

Support - thanks for all of the edits. I know they seemed like nitpicks but it made the article stronger. Nice work. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2026 (UTC)

Source review

Unrelated to sourcing, I am bothered by that list-like format under Political Positions. I am concerned that by just adding up individual stances and votes like that, we end up unintentionally cherrypicking and misrepresenting stuff. I'd like to see it replaced by paragraphs providing overviews of this person's positions, not a listicle. It seems like the sources are reliable - "After 17 Years, Simpson Will Leave Senate" however needs a format fix - Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:26, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• What is your requested change for "After 17 Years, Simpson Will Leave Senate"? I can't really see any issues at the moment. Jon698 (talk) 16:17, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• BTW if you are worried about the political positions section, the same format is used on my one FA Beverly White. Jon698 (talk) 16:28, 12 August 2026 (UTC)

• Sorry, meant the "|archive-date= / |archive-url= timestamp mismatch; May 26, 2015 suggested" error. Re: Beverly White yeah, I should have flagged my concern about structure there too. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:04, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

• @Jo-Jo Eumerus: Fixed in this edit Jon698 (talk) 14:37, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

• Courtesy @Jo-Jo Eumerus: if you want to make any further comments. Jon698 (talk) 03:00, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

  No, but my concern about the structure of the Political Positions section still stands. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:54, 19 August 2026 (UTC)

• @Jo-Jo Eumerus: Can you provide a detailed explanation of what changes you want? As it currently stands the article is in line with other FA and GA articles. I don't see any examples of cherrypicking. In its current version the article does show a overview of Enzi's positions. I am stumped at the moment for what to do specifically. Jon698 (talk) 18:51, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• I've added the composite scores from National Journal, which are on John McCain's page (albeit a very outdated FA), to Enzi's page. Jon698 (talk) 19:08, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

My sense is to ditch every reference to particular bills or votes that Enzi sponsored, opined on or voted for/against. According to Congress.gov the number of instances would go into many thousands. Even narrowing down to bills that had media salience, it'd be many hundreds. He's an US senator, every little thing he does will draw media coverage. As Ian Rose said below, we really can't source these political views from news reports alone, there'd be too many of them. At best, you can say something like "Enzi is known to sponsor bills <insert topic here>" or somesuch. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:17, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• I'm sorry, but I completely oppose that. What you are asking for is to essentially delete the entire political positions section. You can source political views from news reports since that is how we do it across many FA/GAs. Jon698 (talk) 19:11, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• I can't see any justification for that when this is a common format you can find across multiple FA/GAs. The political positions section covers his votes and opinions on major pieces of legislation, international politics, and specific issues he was interested in. Jon698 (talk) 19:16, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• For proof of precedence: Mitt Romney's political positions are entirely sourced with media reports (version at time of FA promotion here. Liz Truss's political positions and the sections covering her government are almost entirely sourced with media reports. Jon698 (talk) 20:02, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• I understand where you are coming from, but I think your request is far too unilateral. Jon698 (talk) 20:40, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

• I would be fine with removing less important details such as his view in the Balangiga bells or adding context to any information you see that needs some. Jon698 (talk) 20:52, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

  See, I don't think the fact that other FAs also use this format means that the problems it brings become irrelevant. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Fair, using one FAC to advance a fundamental restructuring of our politician articles is somewhat dubious but I can't give an unqualified blessing to this type of structure. Especially since we are seeing some cherrypicking - just to cite an example, the article notes a vote about an immigration bill in 2006 but I recall that Congress voted/debated major immigration provisions after 2012 and (more indirectly) after 2016 too. I wonder likewise about tariffs (what was his opinion on Trump's tariffs?) and other policy issues. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:23, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• That is a better starting point. I have found a lot of immigration stuff that I didn't think to add from a quick search. I will add that in and look for more tariff information as well. I don't think it would be beneficial to readers to remove his votes and opinions since that is how we get to know what he believed, rather than vague composition scores or generalized reports. Also per WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS "While comparing with other articles is not, in general, a convincing argument, comparing with articles that have been through some kind of quality review such as Featured article, Good article, or have achieved a WikiProject A class rating, makes a much more credible case." Jon698 (talk) 19:10, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• I have expanded the sections, along with abortion, in this edit. Jon698 (talk) 00:21, 3 October 2026 (UTC)

RoySmith

• Enzi was elected as a city councilor in the American Legion Boys State in 1961 I'd give a brief description of what the Boys State is, as it's not obvious from the name. Same with "United States Junior Chamber" a little while later.

• Done in this edit

• appointed to serve as vice-chair of the nine-member Public Health Nursing Advisory Committee I'd leave out the "nine-member"; it doesn't add anything to the reader's understanding of the main subject.

• Done in this edit

• The Selective Service System reported that Enzi was in good health explain what the selective service is (was?). I know what it is because I grew up in the draft era, but many of our readers will have no clue.

• I saw that you added "(American conscription system)". Does this fully resolve this point you had?

• Enzi married Diana Buckley, with whom he had three children, and moved to Gillette, Wyoming, a week later. At first glance, this sounds like they had three children in one week, so it could use some rephrasing.

• Done in this edit

• Ed Geringer and Jack Babcock resigned within a month of each other Explain who these people are.

• The sentence already says that they are city councilors, but I added "their" to make that clearer in this edit

• Enzi filled both vacancies with Jack Edmunds and Robert White respectively. both -> the. But more importantly, why does this need to be mentioned at all? Are these appointments significant events in Enzi's political career?

• City councils are what run cities and these appointments were made by Enzi.

• Enzi's term as president of the Wyoming Association of Municipalities was meant to end in June 1983, but John Nickle had to serve the remainder ... Why did Enzi leave office at this time? And why is it important that Nickle replaced him?

• He left the presidency because he was no longer an eligible member. He stopped being mayor in January 1983.

• Senator Kelly Mader resigned on December 9, 1991 Should be "State Senator", to make differentiate this from the US Senate.

• Done in this edit

• Why do you report both the amount of money raised and spent for campaigns. In all the cases I can see, these figures are approximately the same, and the reader doesn't learn anything significant by knowing both of them. I'd just report one, for the sake of easier reading.

Still pending.

• I don't see an issue with including all of the figures. They highlight the clear financial advantage he had in all of his races.

• In 1997, Enzi asked the parliamentarian I'd specify "US Senate parliamentarian"

• Done in this edit

• As of 2018, personal electronic devices remained prohibited from the floor That was eight years ago. Can we update that with the current status?

• I have tried to find anything more recent with searches like "electronic devices be on the floor of congress", but I can only find stuff from the early 2010s or the late 1990s.

Surely it's covered in https://www.senate.gov/legislative/rules_procedure.htm?

• I did a search and find for "electronic" and "device" in Flow of Business: A Typical Day on the Senate Floor, House and Senate Rules of Procedure: A Comparison, The Office of the Parliamentarian in the House and Senate, Riddick's Guide, Senate Manual, and Standing Rules of the Senate, but found nothing pertaining to electronic devices being banned from the floor.

• You are inconsistent in how you capitalize committee names, i.e. "Public Health Nursing Advisory Committee" but "Finance committee". I'm pretty sure the Committee should be capitalized.

• I'm pretty sure I have capitalized all singular usage of committee in this edit

That's all for a first pass. I'll come back and take another look in a few days. RoySmith (talk) 23:20, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

• Thank you for your comments. It has been some time since the last comments on this nomination. I will get to them soon. Jon698 (talk) 23:30, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

• The Selective Service (American conscription system) reported that Enzi was in good health in 1963, and in 1966. The Officer Candidate School rejected Enzi due to glycosuria in 1967. This is kind of confusing. Was he drafted? Or did he apply to OCS as a civilian?

• He applied to OCS as a civilian. Jon698 (talk) 04:47, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

Could you add something to the article clarifying this? I had previously heard of OCS, but always thought it was for enlisted upgrading to officer, and didn't discover until I did a bit of hunting around that you could also enter as a civilian. RoySmith (talk) 13:36, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

• @RoySmith: Done in these edits 1 2 Jon698 (talk) 16:26, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

• Hey RoySmith any other comments? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 14:32, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

  I still think the "raised $32,326 and spent $27,258" (and similar) wording is needlessly verbose. Readability would be improved, with no significant loss, by just providing one of those numbers. But we've gone over that and @Jon698 seems to feel having both is important, so I'm not going to dig in my heels over it. Support. RoySmith (talk) 15:43, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

• @RoySmith: I have responded to all of your points above. Jon698 (talk) 05:59, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Coord note

Just looking over with a view to closure, I have to agree with Jo-Jo regarding the political positions. It's very easy to cherry pick and over-simplify this sort of thing. Really we should be working from a biography, or at least biographical articles/profiles, rather than from news reports. News can state the subject's view at any given time but not necessarily their considered position. Take the bald statement "Enzi supported the use of capital punishment". This is cited to a source from 1990. How do we know he retained this view for the next 30 years? Just glancing at the foreign affairs subsection, there are several undated statements there as well. At the very least you need to contextualize with dates the positions reported (as, to be fair, you have done in many cases). Better still though would be to look to what obituaries or late-career profiles state as his consistent or long-term positions. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:24, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• @Ian Rose: I will start work on that today. Jon698 (talk) 11:58, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

• I have added dates and context to any of the undated statements or votes in the political positions section. I also added more scoring of his conservative/liberal belief. I will wait for Jo-Jo to respond to determine what else I need to do. Jon698 (talk) 19:16, 26 September 2026 (UTC)