Talk:White Lives Matter

Organization

There is no organization called “White Lives Matter” 2600:100D:B040:6403:118E:E35:EAF:2782 (talk) 17:28, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

The citations in this article are abysmal

The first citation in this article is to a page that says nothing whatever about "white lives matter." It's juts a random article about Attenborough. The sentence with that citation (the one about the Aryan Renaissance Society and the Traditionalist Worker Party) should either be deleted or bolstered by an actual source.

The next two citations are also incorrect. One is for an SPLC article that never mentions "white lives matter" at all. The other is to an ADL article that vaguely mentions it once without going into any specifics (never specifying that it was a "rallying cry"), and it says nothing about California, Texas, Tennessee, or Florida.

Footnote 8 also appears to be incorrect. The rally in Charlottesville was a "Unite the Right" rally, and it had nothing to do with "white lives matter." The article cited also doesn't mention "white lives matter" at all, from what I can tell (the article is behind a paywall, so feel free to fact-check me on this).

Footnote 9 is talking vaguely about "All Lives Matter," and it never mentions "white lives matter" at all. Footnote 10 is behind a paywall, so I can't read the whole thing, but given how awful the rest of these citations are, I rather doubt that it mentions "white lives matter."

That's just the beginning. A lot of the claims this article makes are correct, but the article is absolutely riddled with citations that have little or nothing to do with the claims it makes.

I'm going to be deleting large portions of this article unless I or someone else can find actual citations for these specific claims it makes.

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.114.13.107 (talk) 03:22, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Robert E. Lee statue removal protest

I’ve tagged this section in the article with {{POV section}} as (at least to me) it doesn’t read as being written in a neutral point of view, including where it states that counter protestors “should have been shut down”. A smart kitten (talk) 20:31, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. The whole section seems as if it was written by somebody who is apart of this movement instead of an actual neutrally-provided viewpoint. B3251 (talk) 20:39, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

The entire section was abysmal. I'm not sure who wrote it but content was duplicated, there were sources used that don't support what they were citing, use of WP:SYNTH, etc. I trimmed it down significantly and removed the tag. ButlerBlog (talk) 19:49, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Serious citation issues

This article is (or now, was) full of serious citation issues. As I went through verifying (or attempting to verify) sources, I found multiple instances where the stated information was clearly WP:SYNTH, and worse, other instances where the cited source wasn't even related to the article - not even remotely. One was an article on architecture, and another was an article on David Attenborough's documentary on climate change. It appears that this was either an instance were content was previously properly cited and someone changed the source, or where someone was putting in WP:OR intentionally and adding a source so that it didn't appear to be OR and no one bothered to verify it. Either way, the article is a mess. I've tried to start the process of addressing much of this, but it will need much more work than that. ButlerBlog (talk) 22:17, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Movement or just a phrase

It appears that the objective of the article became an attempt to make the phrase more of a movement. Maybe trying to force more out of it than there really is is what led to all of the WP:SYNTH and WP:OR? Regardless, most of the legitimate sources focus on it more as a phrase that is used by various supremacist groups as opposed to a "movement" in and of itself. Perhaps refocusing the direction of the article to take what's actually in the sources would produce a better result. ButlerBlog (talk) 22:27, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

NPOV in lead

This lead has to, hands down, be one of the worst WP:NPOV violations I have ever seen on WP. The current version of the lead was added by an IP with little explanation, yet multiple editors including LDM2003, Skywatcher68, and Isi96 have edit warred with multiple good faith users (example 1, example 2, example 3) to keep this lead in place. The two primary sources used to prove this bogus assertion of a "white supremacist slogan" are the SPLC and the ADL, both of which have been subject to discussions about their bias and reliability (see WP:ADLAS and WP:SPLC). Our entry for the SPLC in particular notes that it is a biased source that should be attributed per WP:RSOPINION, yet I see no such evidence of this in the lead – in fact it seems to be treating SPLC analysis as fact. I've taken this to the talk page because time and time again, anyone who tries to uphold our NPOV standards gets promptly reverted, and no discussion whatsoever has taken place yet regarding the sourcing in the lead. wizzito | say hello! 22:45, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

"regarding the sourcing in the lead" There should be no sourcing in the lead to begin with. Leads are supposed to summarize the body of each article, not to have sources of their own. Dimadick (talk) 05:17, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

True, but other articles, including Alliance Defending Freedom and Society for Evidence-Based Gender Medicine (imo the latter article is also suffering from NPOV problems, but that's a separate discussion) similarly cite the SPLC in the lead and those have not yet been removed. wizzito | say hello! 22:41, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

You left out admin @Oshwah: who also edited the lead. I wonder why.   –Skywatcher68 (talk) 21:41, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

Killing of Dylan Noble

There are also White Lives Matter protests and rallies that were held at the Chevron gas station following the June 2016 killing of Dylan Noble in Fresno, California. It should've been added in the California section of rallies. ~2026-18951-73 (talk) 23:16, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

There are signs reading "White Lives Matter" in the protest, yes, but only once. However, I cannot confirm if it's an act of white male violence. ImVeryStupid (talk) 19:38, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

References

please remove the awful racist wording.

This was either trolling or not much better. It has further degenerated into soapboxing. Let's not waste any more time on it. The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

white lives matter is not a white supremacy phrase. it is to describe the fact that in Europe there is two tier policing and politics against the native white population. Mjprockter (talk) 10:20, 7 June 2026 (UTC)

I agree, it's a more white nationalist slogan. It doesn't necessarily imply hatred toward other races at any point, but rather nationalist defense. Many Americans believe that the world revolves around them and their stereotypes, the headline oversimplifies things as if everyone who uses that slogan believes they are superior. Lulasaurius (talk) 08:10, 16 June 2026 (UTC)

So you agree with an editor with 3 edits who claims that there is prejudice against whites in Europe, which is nonsense. Anyway, your edit contradicted the source, did you read the source? I reverted you. Doug Weller talk 09:11, 16 June 2026 (UTC)

Yes, I did it to bring the topic to light. Now, what I'm getting at is that one thing doesn't negate the other; today, the slogan doesn't have the same use and context everywhere. While in the USA there's a historically supremacist context, in Europe it's nationalist and anti-immigrant. The headline focuses exclusively on its context in the United States; the recent demonstrations in Belfast, for example, involved this slogan and didn't have a neo-Confederate objective of superiority. In the case of Henry Nowak the authorities handcuffed him while he was dying for false racist comments, and people demanded justice with this slogan, so today it is not only supremacist. Lulasaurius (talk) 09:43, 16 June 2026 (UTC)

You need to base your argument in what reliable sources say about it. What you've got so far is anecdotal synthesis, and that won't fly. ButlerBlog (talk) 10:50, 16 June 2026 (UTC)

Sudanese journalist Nesrine Malik, speaking from a rather progressive perspective, argues that the "White Lives Matter" message is used in Europe within the context of Europeans feeling discriminated against. Beyond expressing a highly politicized opinion in favor of minorities, she never speaks of supremacy but rather of white self-defense. link Thus, depending on its context, "White Lives Matter" is a white nationalist message that can be either a white supremacist slogan by extremists or a slogan that seeks to highlight the racism, discrimination, and racial inequality suffered by white people at the hands of their governments (especially in Europe). Lulasaurius (talk) 04:34, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

Examples? Doug Weller talk 09:22, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

You read it, right? What recent event does the article I sent you discuss? The murder of Henry Nowak and how society reacted. Lulasaurius (talk) 10:23, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

Phrases like "a two-tiered culture in this country, where the rights and privileges of white people matter less than those of ethnic minorities" demonstrate that those who protested with that slogan did so because they feel discriminated against by their government and not because they believe they are superior. Lulasaurius (talk) 10:30, 17 June 2026 (UTC)