Talk:David Lynch

Start Making Sense

I added, from J. Hoberman's New York Times obituary: "Like Frank Capra and Franz Kafka, two widely disparate 20th-century artists whose work Mr. Lynch much admired and might be said to have synthesized, his name became an adjective." He referred to himself as “Eagle Scout, Missoula, Montana.” We were told "This doesn't make any sense."

But it does. Mr. Hoberman eloquently captures how Lynch synthesized two seemingly disparate attitudes; the surrealism of Kafka and the homegrown Americana of Capra. And, yes, "Lynchian" is an adjective, per Oxford English Dictionary. How many artists have inspired their own adjectives? (Besides Capra and Kafka.) Charlie Faust (talk) 01:48, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Removing content until consensus is maintained. The line is not only poorly worded and confusing, it's trivia not notable for lead.The One I Left (talk) 02:03, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Poorly worded and confusing? Well, I'm not going to argue with the paper of record. But, yes, Lynch can be seen to have elements of Kafka and Capra, two seemingly disparate artists he admired. And, like them, he has inspired an adjective. I think that's notable. Charlie Faust (talk) 02:48, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

It's a terribly confusing sentence. It might be notable in the body of the article but not in the lead.The One I Left (talk) 02:51, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm really not sure what's confusing: "Like Frank Capra and Franz Kafka, two widely disparate 20th-century artists whose work Mr. Lynch much admired and might be said to have synthesized, his name became an adjective." And, indeed, "Lynchian" is recognized by the OED. Will cede on “Eagle Scout, Missoula, Montana.” Charlie Faust (talk) 02:55, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

I think it's a poorly structured sentence but irregardless are you saying you want to Capra line in the body of the article? That's fine, but its too trivial for the lead. Glad you conceded the Eagle Scout nonsense.The One I Left (talk) 02:56, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Well, I don't like "irregardless" but I think the fact that he admired both Capra and Kafka and found ways to synthesize them is notable. Not sure why “Eagle Scout, Missoula, Montana” is nonsense, as he was an Eagle Scout from Missoula, Montana, and it shows his sense of humor. But I agree it doesn't belong in the lead. Charlie Faust (talk) 03:00, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Analytical linguist here. The sentence makes perfect sense, and I'm not sure why this is a problem. DeadParrotMatt (talk) 13:02, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

I found the sentence to be overly wordy and confusing. My problem is it doesn't belong in the lead but rather the body of the article.The One I Left (talk) 15:51, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Well, glad I'm not the only one it makes sense to. Many WP articles have such a quotation in the lead; see, for example Luis Buñuel (a certified Good Article, per the robust standards of WP editors): "Buñuel's obituary in The New York Times called him "an iconoclast, moralist, and revolutionary who was a leader of avant-garde surrealism in his youth and a dominant international movie director half a century later." So I don't think it's out of place. Charlie Faust (talk) 22:56, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

That describes NYT bit describes him as an artist, your quote makes more sense to put within the body of the articleThe One I Left (talk) 00:00, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

I feel like the two sides of this discussion are talking past eachother here. Yes, the quote is perfectly intelligible, but also somewhat awkwardly phrased, such that it takes an extra fraction of a second to parse, which is all that is needed to make it feel ungainly. It's certainly not straightforward encyclopedic prose, but it also doesn't have to be, if it's added as an attributed statement (as it should be, in this case).

As for whether this belongs in the lead, I believe the answer is both yes and no. "Lynchian" becoming a well-recognized term in the arts is both highly notable and an important indication of the stature and influence of the man's work that is a good way to round out the lead. On the other hand, that particular quote isn't essential (or a particularly practical way) of stating that fact. It's just one person's overly-wordy way of stating a fact that was well-established before that quote existed.

So how about this: we put quote somewhere in the body, and in the lead, we include a statement somewhere along the lines of "Lynch's propensity for surreal imagery and his experimental approach to story telling in his films lead to "lynchian" becoming a well-recognized adjective for describing such features in art, and particularly in film-making." That should be easy enough to source, afterall. SnowRise ^{let's rap} 23:52, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Purely as a side note, there's something very fitting about a discussion of this man's life and work resulting in people debating whether or not a particular statement makes sense. Farewell, dear artist: your work is going to have us coming up with more questions than answers for a long while--and I for one am grateful. SnowRise ^{let's rap} 00:00, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Honestly, I agree. I think it's worth noting that he has inspired an adjective. Per the OED, Lynchian is "Characteristic, reminiscent, or imitative of the films or television work of David Lynch" adding

"Lynch is noted for juxtaposing surreal or sinister elements with mundane, everyday environments, and for using compelling visual images to emphasize a dreamlike quality of mystery or menace." That's a pretty good definition. I think it belongs in the lead. Charlie Faust (talk) 02:05, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

If you're looking for the Lynchian, check out this Premiere piece by David Foster Wallace, ostensibly about the production of Lost Highway (Wallace's writing is rarely what it seems to be about.) He writes: AN ACADEMIC DEFINITION of Lynchian might be that the term "refers to a particular kind of irony where the very macabre and the very mundane combine in such a way as to reveal the former's perpetual containment within the latter." The whole thing, like most of Wallace, is worth reading. Charlie Faust (talk) 15:25, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

I think the Hoberman quote belongs in the lead. That Lynch admired Capra and Kafka and found ways to synthesize them is worth noting. And his work does bear resemblance to both; Pauline Kael wrote that "Lynch might turn out to be the first populist surrealist - a Frank Capra of dream logic." And many Wikipedia articles have such quotes in the lead; the article for Luis Buñuel (a certified Good Article, per the robust standards of Wikipedia editors) tells us: "Buñuel's obituary in The New York Times called him "an iconoclast, moralist, and revolutionary who was a leader of avant-garde surrealism in his youth and a dominant international movie director half a century later."

So I propose closing with: "J. Hoberman writes that "Like Frank Capra and Franz Kafka, two widely disparate twentieth century artists Lynch much admired and might be said to have synthesized, his name became an adjective." The Oxford English Dictionary defines "Lynchian" as "Characteristic, reminiscent, or imitative of the films or television work of David Lynch", adding "Lynch is noted for juxtaposing surreal or sinister elements with mundane, everyday environments, and for using compelling visual images to emphasize a dreamlike quality of mystery or menace." Isn't that a good way to round out the lead? Charlie Faust (talk) 15:18, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

The OED definition ("Characteristic, reminiscent, or imitative of the films or television work of David Lynch") is worth including, as it makes clear that it refers to his film and television work and not, say, his painting. And how many artists get their own adjective in the OED? Charlie Faust (talk) 00:25, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

Also unsure about "Lynch studied painting and made short films before making his first feature-length film, the independent body horror film Eraserhead (1977), which found success as a midnight movie. He then earned critical acclaim as well as nominations for the Academy Award for Best Director for the biographical drama The Elephant Man (1980), the mystery thriller Blue Velvet (1986), and the psychological drama Mulholland Drive (2001). For his romantic crime drama Wild at Heart (1990), he received the Palme d'Or at the Cannes Film Festival. He also directed the space opera Dune (1984), the neo-noir Lost Highway (1997), the road movie The Straight Story (1999), and the experimental thriller Inland Empire (2006).

The two uses of "film" in the first sentence gives me pause. Why not say "his first feature"? Also not sure about genres given. The Elephant Man is a biographical drama, but what is Blue Velvet? A "mystery thriller"? I wouldn't call Mulholland Drive a "psychological drama". Wikipedia calls it a "surrealist neonoir art film", which seems nearer the mark. But it's part of Lynch's art that his films are not easily categorized. As he put it in conversation with Richard Corliss, "See, I love 47 different genres in one film. I hate one-thing films. And I love B movies. But why not have three or four Bs running together? Like a little hive!” Charlie Faust (talk) 16:12, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

I agree that the OED definition would be a good way of rounding out the lead. The header for James Joyce (a certified Featured Article) closes with a quote from the man himself: "For myself, I always write about Dublin, because if I can get to the heart of Dublin I can get to the heart of all the cities of the world. In the particular is contained the universal." For William Shakespeare, another Featured Article, the lead rounds out with a quote from Ben Johnson: "not of an age, but for all time". The OED definition is both a way to round out the lead and a segue to the rest of the article. Charlie Faust (talk) 00:21, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Here's how the lead for another Featured Article, Bob Dylan, closes: "He has also been awarded a Pulitzer Prize special citation in 2008, and the 2016 Nobel Prize in Literature "for having created new poetic expressions within the great American song tradition". Again, that's both a way of rounding out the lead and segueing to the rest of the article. So would giving the OED definition of "Lynchian". Charlie Faust (talk) 00:48, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

References

Date of death

I see a bit of silly back and forth about his death. Britannica thinks it was the 16th, and Instagram is a dreadful source. Could we discuss here instead of messing up the article? John (talk) 18:14, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

I've added the {{circa}} template in the interim, given the uncertainty. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 18:32, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

Speaking of dreadful sources, a link to TMZ doesn't belong on Wikipedia. Lynch deserved better. Charlie Faust (talk) 16:45, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

His death certificate says that he died on January 16th.

2601:18C:8102:86C0:78A4:76EB:E8D7:2B44 (talk) 23:58, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

Where is the death certificate? I'm asking because Deadline's article David Lynch Cause Of Death Revealed by Natalie Oganesyan (8 February 2025) says that David Lynch died on January 15. — Vincent Lefèvre (talk) 01:18, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

OK, this article from TMZ only gives the date January 15, but it has a link to the death certificate, which gives the date January 16. — Vincent Lefèvre (talk) 01:28, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

I saw that Deadline article. They are basing it on the TMZ article which has a link to the death certificate on it which clearly has 1/16 on it. I think that Deadline article has a typo. Masem (t) 01:28, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

It’s them harkening back to their initial report which they (at the time) corrected it to the 15th once a report stemming from TMZ was published where a family member had told them he had died the 15th. Most other sources also did this but since then I believe his daughter would call this incorrect on social media as he died on the 16th. This was then followed up with his death certificate becoming available and definitively confirming the details such as DOD, place of death and resting place. It adds alot of confusion to the topic for sure but with the certificate being out it renders all that redundant. Rusted AutoParts 15:05, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

"Lynchian" in the Lead

The lead ends with the rather abrupt and painful line: "A lifelong smoker, he died from complications of emphysema after being evacuated from his home due to the Southern California wildfires." That's true, but wouldn't it be better to round out the lead with an assessment of his legacy? And what better example of that is there than the adjective "Lynchian", recognized by the Oxford English Dictionary?

I propose rounding out the lead with:

The Oxford English Dictionary defines "Lynchian" as "Characteristic, reminiscent, or imitative of the films or television work of David Lynch", adding "Lynch is noted for juxtaposing surreal or sinister elements with mundane, everyday environments, and for using compelling visual images to emphasize a dreamlike quality of mystery or menace".

That's as good a definition as any, is a way to round out the lead, and serves as a segue into the rest of the article. The lead for William Shakespeare (a Featured Article, per the robust standards of Wikipedia editors) closes with a quotation from Ben Johnson: "not of an age, but for all time". The lead for James Joyce (a Featured Article) closes with the following, from Joyce himself: "For myself, I always write about Dublin, because if I can get to the heart of Dublin I can get to the heart of all the cities of the world. In the particular is contained the universal." Closing the lead with the OED definition of "Lynchian" would be apt. Charlie Faust (talk) 21:20, 12 February 2025 (UTC)

"Lynchian" made yesterday's New York Times crossword puzzle, so it's definitely a word in use. And it's in the Oxford English Dictionary. (How many artists get an adjective in the OED?) Closing with the OED definition of "Lynchian" would be entirely apt. And if readers come across "Lynchian" in the article or elsewhere and wonder what it means, after seeing the definition in the header, they'll know. Charlie Faust (talk) 16:43, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

The H. L. Mencken page has the following in the lead: "The term Menckenian has entered multiple dictionaries to describe anything of or pertaining to Mencken, including his combative rhetorical and prose style." The George Orwell page has the following in the lead: "the adjective "Orwellian"—describing totalitarian and authoritarian social practices—is part of the English language." So it would be perfectly cromulent to include the OED definition of "Lynchian" here. Charlie Faust (talk) 23:11, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

Another example: the lead for Franz Kafka (a Featured Article, per the robust standards of Wikipedia editors) informs us: "The term Kafkaesque has entered English to describe absurd situations like those depicted in his writing". So including "Lynchian" in the lead of this article would be apt. Charlie Faust (talk) 17:46, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

References

Date of Death

In his death certificate he died on January 16, 2025 at 0717 (7:17 AM) 209.122.216.158 (talk) 17:49, 30 August 2025 (UTC)