Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2012 January 31

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January 31

"Of course"

The "f" in "of" is normally pronounced like "v." However, it seems to me that in the United States, people say "f" when saying "of course". Listen to this person. Is this an exception?--72.152.244.173 (talk) 09:04, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Did you extrapolate your opinion about "people" in the United States from that single example; or do you have other evidence? -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 09:51, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

This is my opinion based on what I hear. I could be mishearing; however, I've tried my hardest. I keep hearing "f" instead "v" in "of course." --72.152.244.173 (talk) 10:01, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

My other evidence.--72.152.244.173 (talk) 10:04, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

It's probably just voicing assimilation in rapid speech. I'm sure if you asked people to speak slowly and put a pause in between the two words, the /v/ sound in "of" would come back. It's not the same as used in "I used to like it", where the devoicing is completely lexicalized. No matter how slowly people articulate it or how much pause they put in between the words, used in that meaning is [ju:st] ("yoost", to rhyme with "roost"). Angr (talk) 10:09, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Even when I try to say "of course," the "f" of "of" starts to sound like "f" instead of "v." However, I take it that you tell the sound of "of" in "of course" is "v."--72.152.244.173 (talk) 10:30, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Depends on what you mean by "is". I'd say the "f" of "of course" is phonemically /v/ but phonetically ranges from [v] to [f] depending on speaker, rate of speech, and other factors. Angr (talk) 11:22, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Hereon out, I will produce /v/ when I say "of course."--72.152.244.173 (talk) 12:25, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Why? Pronounce it however it feels most natural to you. Angr (talk) 13:44, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Merriam-Webster says you don't have to pronounce either [f] or [v] before a consonant. Just grunting out a schwa is sufficient. --Colapeninsula (talk) 14:37, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Interesting way to maybe sneak in a plug for that guy. :) In any case, the way he says it sounds normal to this American. If you were to say it with an "f" instead of a "v" it would sound like "off course", which of course has a very different meaning. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:52, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

I listened to the animation maybe 10 times, and it's a "v" sound. Maybe not a real hard "v", but harder than a normal "f". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:54, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

For me, an American, both the "v" and the "f" seem natural. I think I normally use the "v" though, but it depends on where I put the emphasis. If I put a lot of emphasis on "course", I don't voice the "f" to make a "v" sound. Huh, never thought about it before. Falconus^{p t c} 00:24, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I've heard Americans and Canadians devoice the 'of' in 'of course' from time to time, and I think we Brits sometimes do it (when we actually pronounce the full word 'of' in "'course"). KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 01:08, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I don't think that the pronounciation of a single letter can characterize a society. Word pronounciation and sentence structure are much more relevant and easier to use as a source of national identification. Regards.--MarshalN20 | ^Talk 17:20, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

See Shibboleth.—Wavelength (talk) 17:37, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Hebrew

Trolling removed. See Talk page. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 23:06, 31 January 2012 (UTC) The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

What is “קניציה שטרלו”‎? --84.61.139.62 (talk) 17:22, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

קניציה is Knizia. שטרלו has no meaning, and it may have been mispelled. 77.126.39.58 (talk) 19:03, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Is “שטרלו” the Hebrew transcription of “Strelow”? --84.61.139.62 (talk) 20:36, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow! Yes it is! I didn't know that Reiner Knizia's second name is Strelow. Anyways, where have you found the Hebrew transcription of Knizia Strelow? Are you familiar with his games? 77.126.39.58 (talk) 20:54, 31 January 2012 (UTC)