Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2011 December 13

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

December 13

Apostrophe s

Is this correct: "Supreme Court of Justice's juvenile division" (from "juvenile division of the Supreme Court of Justice")? I don't think it is, for the principal noun is "court', not "justice". Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thank you. --Aristitleism (talk) 19:47, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

It is correct. The noun is a proper noun, indicated by the capital initials: "Supreme Court of Justice".--Shantavira|^{feed me} 20:01, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Not sure of the relevance of the properness of the noun here. We might in another context talk about "the court's Juvenile Division", but we wouldn't talk about "Justice's Juvenile Division", and this seems to be the OP's issue. In the example, "Supreme Court of Justice" is treated as if it were a noun, and apostrophised accordingly. Same as "the Prime Minister of Australia's boyfriend". Everyone knows Australia doesn't have a boyfriend, so there's no confusion. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 20:25, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Or The King of Ireland's Son, a title that completely baffled me when I was a child. Angr (talk) 22:01, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Did the King of Spain's daughter never visit you? Dbfirs 00:57, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

No, never. I've never heard, or heard of, that nursery rhyme before. Angr (talk) 07:04, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, yes, I think it was popularised by the BBC Home Service's Listen with Mother, so you wouldn't have been exposed to this influence. Dbfirs 08:43, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Linguists know it as the "clitic possessive" (see Saxon_genitive#Grammatical_status_as_clitic.2C_suffix_or_case_ending). AnonMoos (talk) 00:01, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

latin translation

Salvete amici amicaeque!

I'm trying to paraphrase Shakespeare in an essay I'm writing regarding his having been influenced by Plautus. I've trying to say akin to "I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him," "I come to praise Plautus, not to bury him"

"Venio ne plaudam Plautum, quam eum sepeliam."

Does that work? (while I know plaudo isn't the most accurate verb for praise, it makes a nice polyptoton with Plautus) Thanks!71.232.14.6 (talk) 21:04, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I think you would have to say "venio non ut" (or "non venio ut"), rather than "ne", because at the moment it means "I am coming (from somewhere else) so that I don't praise Plautus (in that other place)", if that makes sense. And to connect the two sentences I think you would need something like "atqui" or "quin" to note the contrast. Thus, perhaps "venio non ut Plautum plaudam, quin ut eum sepeliam". You probably don't need the "eum" though, nor even the second "ut". Adam Bishop (talk) 21:58, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Me, I would say "advenio ad Plautam laudandum non sepeliundum" Duomillia (talk) 22:03, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Or you could even use an accusative supine, "venio Plautum plausum non sepultum". Adam Bishop (talk) 22:25, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

"Venio ad Plautum laudandum, non ad sepeliendum", cf. the second phrase of . --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 01:41, 14 December 2011 (UTC)