Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2011 April 12

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April 12

Japanese help

I need someone to post the text of the name of the "Oakland County Health Division" and the name "Communicable Disease Reference Chart"

I can't copy and paste the text from the PDF, because it becomes garbled

Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 05:22, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

The PDF link, please. Oda Mari (talk) 07:29, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

If it's this one, then the text is オークランドカウンティー保健衛生局 and 伝染病に関する参考資料. -- BenRG (talk) 10:27, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it is. Thank you so much :) WhisperToMe (talk) 23:45, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

German/English Luck/Glück

Could the English word "luck" ever mean "happiness" (like the German word "Glück")? If not, did it have in the past the same meaning as "Glück"? 80.58.205.34 (talk) 12:28, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

The OED gives:

Etymology: < Low German (Dutch, Old Frisian) luk, a shortened form of geluk (Middle Dutch gelucke = Middle High German gelücke, modern German glück). Parallel adoptions of the Low German word are Icelandic lukka (14th cent.), Middle Swedish lukka, lykka (modern Swedish lycka), Danish lykke. Probably it came into English as a gambling term; the Low German dialects were a frequent source of such terms in 15–16 centuries.

It does not, however, specifically define the word luck as meaning happiness. Hope this is some help. --some jerk on the Internet (talk) 12:39, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that's of some help. But, would an English native speaker ever associate "luck" with the meaning "happiness"? (not in an indirect way, like if you are lucky, that makes you happy). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.58.205.34 (talk) 12:54, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

No, not directly like that - only as a consequence of being lucky. Matt Deres (talk) 13:21, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

In modern usage no English speaker would equate lucky/happy or luck/happiness. But they are fairly closely related, as good luck leads to happiness. The Latin word felix means both happy and fortunate, and the English expression happy-go-lucky is not merely coincidental. ☯.ZenSwashbuckler.☠ 14:04, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

That seems likely, but note that happy-go-lucky isn't a synonym for either luckiness or happiness directly, but to being "carefree" or "without worries" (which may arise from luck - and lead to happiness). Matt Deres (talk) 15:16, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

It's rather literary now, but "happy" can still mean "fortunate", particularly when applied to events and circumstances, as in "by a happy coincidence". Note that "happy" is cognate with "happen" and with "perhaps": its original meaning was somewhere in the realm of "chance". --ColinFine (talk) 23:53, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

The root of this cluster of meanings seems to be hap - chance or fortune (from Middle English and Norse happ - chance, good luck), from which we also derive hapless - destitute of "hap" or good fortune, unlucky etc; haply - by chance or accident; and happen (plus its various derivatives) - to come to pass (from hap as above). Surprisingly, my edition of the OED omits happenstance - "a blend of happening and circumstance" according to Wictionary. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.111 (talk) 08:19, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

The on-line OED agrees on the portmanteau origin and includes the word happenstance with the caveat "chiefly U.S.", giving citations from 1897 to 1973. Their definition is "A chance event; a coincidence." The OED also has a sense of "happy" defined as "Characterized by or involving good fortune; fortunate, lucky; prosperous; favourable, propitious" with cites from 1340 to 1969. Dbfirs 17:00, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

It's worth noting that the use of happy as in "by a happy coincidence" also exists with "feliz" (happy) in Spanish "una feliz coincidencia" and probably in other Romance languages. --Belchman (talk) 21:28, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

The phrase "down on one's luck" is sometimes used in the sense of "experiencing financial distress", rather than merely "experiencing a string of bad luck". See , for example. Gabbe (talk) 19:21, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Stress of the armenian names

Does anybody know in which syllabe are stressed generally the armenian family names ending at -yan, like Martirosyan, Grigoryan , Nazaryan, etc? Thanks. Leonprimer (talk) 15:13, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

I don;t know if there's a rule for it (I do not speak Armenian), but every such name I've ever heard places the stress on the syllable immediately preceding the -ian/-yan ending - e.g. zaKARian, garaBEDian, etc. ☯.ZenSwashbuckler.☠ 15:55, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

When we pronounce them in Romanian, we place the stress on the -AN. 80.123.210.172 (talk) 16:50, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

As does Russian (see Aram Khachaturian for example - Ара́м Ильи́ч Хачатуря́н in Russian). -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 19:42, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

According to Armenian language#Stress, the stress in all words that don't end in a schwa is on the last syllable. So MartirosYAN, GrigorYAN, NazarYAN. In English, however, we often anglicize the names by putting the stress on the next-to-last syllable, e.g. Sa-ROY-an, Kar-DASH-ian (which in Armenian would be [saɾoˈjan], [kʰaɾdaˈʃjan]). Lesgles (talk) 20:25, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Imagine being the child of an Armenian parent and a Czech parent (in Czech, virtually all words are stressed on the first syllable). The child wouid probably grow up being a proponent of the Third Way and the Middle Path.  :) -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 22:52, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Etymology of some obscure hibernicisms

Hello there -

I've been spending a lot of time recently with my grandfather, who is from Northern Co. Longford. As a linguist, I'm always unconsciously listening out for distinctive words or turn of phrase, and a few such have emerged over the last couple of days and left me puzzling for hours over their origin. Some I've found (like corant), but others I haven't, and I was wondering whether anyone out there knows the origin of the following words:

- Something that sounds to my ears as [kəˈmɑlʲiːn] (camáilín? in my very inexpert attempt at a transcription). He uses this to refer to awful, repetitive songs. - [ˈlatʃɪkoː] (latchico?) I've seen this mentioned elsewhere, but haven't come across its etymology. It means a half-wit or someone who acts stupid. - [məˈloːdʒɪn] - referred to an artful dodger type who's somewhere between a scamp and a rogue.

If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be grateful.

Thanks 82.132.248.86 (talk) 22:05, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

The last might possibly have some connection with Melungeon... AnonMoos (talk) 23:16, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestion, AnonMoos - I somehow doubt that such a word would be used as a reference point in a small village that knew little of Dublin, never mind rare ethnic groups thousands of miles away. Anyone else with an idea? These are going to bug me for some time, particularly camolyeen. 82.132.136.205 (talk) 22:37, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

The Irish might well be familiar with Spenser's Malengin, mentioned in the "Etymology" section of the article AnonMoos linked, though. Deor (talk) 22:52, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Several online forums and sites suggest latchkey (as in latchkey kid) as a possible origin of "latchico" or "latchie". The Concise New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English (Routledge, 2001, ISBN 9780415212595) gives "a ruffian" as its meaning, but doesn't mention its etymology, though the item "latchkey" can be found right below it. ---Sluzzelin talk 13:34, 14 April 2011 (UTC)