Template talk:Sumo record box start

Playoffs of 3,4,5

what does P, PP, PPP etc denote? imo should be "additional bout fought in a playoff (win or lose)"

compare Musashimaru's page for his 1996 in sumo#Kyushu basho yusho and those of the four runners-up

with Takayasu and Takakeisho's runner-up for Abi's yusho 2022 in sumo#Kyushu basho (here both runners-up have a 12–3–PP despite fighting only once)

with Kinbozan and Oho's runner-up for Hoshoryu's yusho 2025 in sumo#Hatsu basho (Oho a 12–3–PP despite fighting only once, while Kinbozan has a 12–3–P)

see also recent edits at @OtharLuin DK-ZERO (talk) 12:50, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

PS. no time to check all relevant pages, but here's a list for Makuuchi playoffs

.

Makuuchi 3-way

Hoshoryu 2025.01

Abi 2022.11

Akebono 1994.03

Akebono 1993.07

Hokutoumi 1990.03

Kashiwado 1965.09

Taiho 1961.09

Asashio 1956.03

.

Makuuchi 4-way

Takanohana 1997.03

Haguroyama 1947.06

.

Makuuchi 5-way

Musashimaru 1996.11 DK-ZERO (talk) 12:51, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

(1) P = "additional bout fought in a playoff (win or lose)"

the 5-way, both 4-ways, Akebono 1993.07, Hokutoumi 1990.03, Kashiwado 1965.09

(2) P = "additional participant in a playoff"

Abi 2022.11

fitting both definitions:

Taiho 1961.09, Akebono 1994.03

somewhat erroneous tables:

Hoshoryu 2025.01, Asashio 1956.03

looks like precedent is in favour of (1) more often than not, altough there's many more articles that would have to be checked for how they handle lower division x-way playoffs... DK-ZERO (talk) 15:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

looking at just one such example: Juryo 2020.07, another case of an erroneous table, 5-way playoff, all participants' tables conform to (1), except for Hoshoryu who is conforming to (2)... DK-ZERO (talk) 15:11, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

searching for all instances of PPPP, all of them are conforming to (1) DK-ZERO (talk) 15:29, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

I am the one who originally started the Career tables themselves (2007 or so), and also the one who decided to mark multiple playoffs with more than one P. I rather liked it at the time and had no complaints. I don't know if later people misapplied it's use (it's been a long time) or there is a chance I got one or two wrong even back then. I would prefer to see the multiple Ps as is, and discrepancies fixed but I wouldn't fight it if someone was determined to clean it up, as I don't really participate here much anymore. As active as I was I essentially only update the "active sumo wrestlers" list these days every banzuke release. FWIW, I am SumoSoul on social media and that has become my main focus. FourTildes (talk) 20:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

TIL you are FourTildes, Malnova and SumoSoul, all in one person! 🤯👌 DK-ZERO (talk) 20:53, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

"additional bout fought in a playoff (win or lose)" should be enforced, waiting on @OtharLuin for confirmation. DK-ZERO (talk) 15:35, 15 April 2026 (UTC)

Hi, and above all, thanks for all the legwork you put in beforehand. It seems that with the turnover of participants in WP:SUMO, the way things are done has changed. I don't have a strong opinion on the matter. We could also simply add a single P to indicate that there was a playoff situation without elaborating further. In any case, feel free to edit the biographies that need updating based on your decision. Also, please add your decision to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sumo/Conventions#Discussion on conventions (April 2024), so there is a written record of how to proceed. - OtharLuin (talk) 07:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

I am the one who originally started the Career tables themselves (2007 or so), and also the one who decided to mark multiple playoffs with more than one P. I rather liked it at the time and had no complaints. I don't know if later people misapplied it's use (it's been a long time) or there is a chance I got one or two wrong even back then. I would prefer to see the multiple Ps as is, and discrepancies fixed but I wouldn't fight it if someone was determined to clean it up, as I don't really participate here much anymore. As active as I was I essentially only update the "active sumo wrestlers" list these days every banzuke release. FWIW, I am SumoSoul on social media and that has become my main focus. FourTildes (talk) 10:52, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

there's not a lot of deviation as is, should be a quick fix. DK-ZERO (talk) 20:52, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

fixed all errors mentioned above. DK-ZERO (talk) 21:34, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

also fixed some of the prose, which ideally should mention 3-ways and how they played out, see Hokutoumi DK-ZERO (talk) 09:40, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

actually, Yūshō#Playoffs always had the convention explained:

"Any playoffs are indicated on individual wrestler articles' tournament records as one P for every other playoff challenger the wrestler faced in that tournament." (albeit a bit ambiguous...)

made a few changes to the article and related things: 0–0–15, 11–4–PPP, 10–2–1△.

PS. running out of steam for today, will get to Sumo/Conventions maybe tomorrow, gn8. DK-ZERO (talk) 21:22, 16 April 2026 (UTC)