Talk:Wild Turkey

Requested move 28 September 2022

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. After much-extended time for discussion, there is no clear consensus for a move at this time. Specifically, there is a clear majority supporting a move of the current title, but a sharp split of opinion on what should be done with the title after that. With no clear resolution of that second question, the first becomes unanswerable. BD2412 T 06:56, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

• Wild Turkey → Wild Turkey (disambiguation)Wild Turkey (disambiguation)
• Wild Turkey (bourbon) → Wild Turkey

– I believe this should be moved back to Wild Turkey (disambiguation) (or maybe Wild turkey (disambiguation)), as WP:MALPLACED does not apply here. The dab page clearly indicates that the wild turkey article is the primary subject, and the other links are secondary. Wild Turkey should be a redirect to wild turkey, as an alternative capitalization. UtherSRG (talk) 12:19, 28 September 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 00:39, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

To clarify - the current placement was via a move citing WP:MALPLACED. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:43, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Bayonet-lightbulb (talk) 13:55, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
• Support, but move Wild Turkey (bourbon) to Wild Turkey, per WP:DIFFCAPS. 162 etc. (talk) 17:28, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

  I concur with this addition. - UtherSRG (talk) 17:56, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

• Move Wild Turkey (bourbon) to Wild Turkey. Shwcz (talk) 20:07, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Johnbod (talk) 01:13, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:DIFFCAPS the bird isn't a proper noun while the bourbon is. The bourbon has 3,583 views while the bird has 13,517[]. Its probably safest to disambiguate the title case version. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:16, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

  Question - isn't my proffered move disambiguating the title case version? And the theme of WP:DIFFCAPS is to get the user to their desired article as swiftly as possible. Since it is far more likely the user will type in all lower case, their initial hit is the bird, and then via hatnote to the dab page (wherever that ends up being). With the moves, if the user types "Wild Turkey" they'd get the bourbon, and if they type "wild turkey" they'd get the bird. As things stand, those looking for the bourbon (and typing it correctly) have to go through the dab page. - UtherSRG (talk) 18:05, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

  There are 3 entries in title case and 1 other in sentence case, those typing in title case would probably be better being taken to the DAB. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:18, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

  If they are typing in title case, you don't think that most are looking for the bourbon? - UtherSRG (talk) 11:45, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

  They could be looking for either, if they type in title case they could intentionally be looking for the bourbon as its a proper noun but they could easily be looking for the bird as species are often written in title case. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:12, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Disambiguation has been notified of this discussion. UtherSRG (talk) 18:51, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support proposed move and move Wild Turkey (bourbon) to Wild Turkey, which is distinct from wild turkey per WP:DIFFCAPS. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 20:19, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
• Strong oppose. The primary topic, if there is one, and as indicated by views above, is wild turkey. So certainly no move of the bourbon article. A dab page serves the readers best.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:33, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
  • The page views listed above are comparing the bourbon to "wild turkey", not to "Wild Turkey" with a capital 'T'. They don't provide any evidence of what people are looking for when they use a capital 'T'. In contrast, the evidence I see here is that most people using a capital 'T' are looking for the bourbon. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:31, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom and leave the bourbon where it is. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:56, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
• Relist comment: Given nom's approved the proposed move of Wild Turkey (bourbon) and volume of ensuing discussion, the article needs to have the RM banner. So, I have added the associated move. Please ensure the tag has been on the bourbon page for seven days before closing this RM. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 00:39, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Fixed relist 02:07, 7 October 2022 (UTC) and flipped order of associated moves for clarity. Note: WikiProject Food and drink, WikiProject Spirits, and WikiProject United States have been notified of this discussion. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 02:20, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per Amakuru. YorkshireExpat (talk) 19:33, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
• Support (both moves as currently shown) or wait to collect more Wikinav evidence: The real evidence is Wikinav, not raw page views that compare uppercase to lowercase. The Wikinav evidence shows that the vast majority (about two thirds) of people looking for "Wild Turkey" with a capital 'T' are looking for the bourbon. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:31, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
  • No, it doesn't! It shows that the majority, perhaps nearly 2/3, of people arriving at the disam page go no further - perhaps that is what they were looking for. Johnbod (talk) 02:34, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
    • They're looking for a disambiguation page? I think it's common for some people not to click further when they hit a disambiguation page, and what we should pay attention to is the those who do go somewhere after that. One potential problem is that the disambiguation page was recently moved. I don't know whether that affects the measurements. Waiting a while might help clarify the situation. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 04:56, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Note: Some of the above discussion is a bit mixed up about exactly what is being supported or opposed and why. This may be because the original proposal was changed. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 22:40, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. Wild Turkey should actually redirect to Wild turkey, and Wild Turkey moved to Wild Turkey (disambiguation). Rreagan007 (talk) 21:57, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Why? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:05, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
• Support. This is a bit of a mess because editors (including those contributing to this discussion) are ignoring WP:DIFFCAPS which, like it or not, is policy. A "wild turkey" is a bird; "Wild Turkey" is a bourbon, primarily, Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 17:15, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

  • In fact, DIFFCAPS (aka SMALLDETAILS) has traditionally been interpreted that capitalization (and other small details) may be used as means of disambiguation subject to editorial consensus, but not that they have to. Indeed, that is frequently a bone of contention, particularly for more obscure articles. I'm unsure what is the best solution in this particular case (and how we could quantify the 'best'). No such user (talk) 07:39, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Possibly unverifiable item

I have not found anything in a quick Google search relating to the item, "Wild Turkey, a 19th-century Native American leader associated with the Absentee-Shawnee Tribe of Indians". I did find the name "Big Turkey" associated with the Shawnee, but not "Wild Turkey". Donald Albury 21:51, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

If nobody can provide further information supporting the item, I propose to remove the "Native American leader" from this page in a week or so. Donald Albury 17:05, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

I concur with removal. - UtherSRG (talk) 17:12, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Regardless of whether it is externally verifiable or not, the item fails WP:DABMENTION – i.e. the linked article (Absentee-Shawnee Tribe of Indians) does not mention "Wild Turkey" anywhere, so I have removed it. (I was also unable to easily find any external source to support it.) —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:15, 7 October 2022 (UTC)