Talk:Tvorog

It's not just Russian, the same technology of making cottage cheese is typical throughout the Eastern Europe. E.g. the same tvorog is calling syr in Ukraine or twaróg in Poland, and isn't considered there exactly a Russian dish. And it's very similar to what Western Europeans are calling quark (maybe in the E. Europe it's somewhat drier in consistency). I don't understand the logic of merging/unmerging of articles in the English Wikipedia. --Wolverène (talk) 06:12, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

The quark article was merged with the tvorog article, and its original name was removed without profound reasons. I believe tvorog/twarog is a more common word for this type of products than quark. Anyway, there is no point in calling a dish from Slavic cuisine by a non-Slavic word. 176.99.250.68 (talk) 08:58, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

"is a European variant of cottage cheese"

This statement is inconsistent. Readers will have feeling that it's Americans invented a "cottage cheese" first and later the Europe adopted it as a Tvorog.24.188.156.61 (talk) 13:58, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

• Also, tovorok and quark are similar, whereas cottage cheese is markedly different. I really like cottage cheese (on which I was raised), but the other two (common in places I lived for a long time) I consider an acquired taste. I think the tvorok and quark articles should refer to each other so, for example, someone looking for the Russian tvorok article (but not know the name) could find it via the quark article. 136.36.180.215 (talk) 18:56, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Etymology official

The word "tvorog" (curd) originally comes from the Turkic-Mongolian languages, like other words for fermented milk products such as kefir, yogurt, ayran, kort, and kumys, since dairy products and meat were the main foods of nomads. When setting out on long journeys, any milk would sour in the heat, curdle, and ferment, so they found ways to preserve it. This is unlike sedentary farmers who had a barn and livestock where they could constantly drink freshly milked cow's milk. The word "tvorog" (curd) stands out from the rest of the Slavic dishes and is systematically linked to a whole layer of Turkic vocabulary. Let's break this down, relying on the facts, as the popular Pan-Slavic etymology of tvorog, from the similar word "tvorit" (create), is absurd. "Tvorog" is a foreign word among its own. If you look at the original names of Slavic dishes and foods, they are formed according to a simple and transparent pattern: verb (process) + suffix = product.

1) Квас, простокваша ← квасить (бродить, заквашивать) / Kvass ← kvasit' (to ferment, to leaven)

2) Сметана ← сметать (собирать, снимать сливки) / Smetana ← smeat' (to collect, to skim)

3) Масло ← мазать / Butter ← smear

4) Варенец, Варенье ← варить / Varenets, Jam ← cook

5) Бражка - Бродить / Brazhka ← to ferment

6) Солянка, Рассол, Засолка ← Солить / Solyanka, Rassol', Zasol'ka - to salt

The food was named according to the action performed on it. This is transparent and logical. "Tvorog" is a complete outlier in this series. The connection with the verb "tvorit'" (i.e., "to do in general," "to create") is semantically empty and unnatural. You can "tvorit" anything—a table, the weather, miracles. For some reason, the language hasn't developed the terms "tvorenoye meat," "tvorenoye kapusta," or "tvorenoye khleb" (made meat), following the same logic.

Linguists who defend the Slavic version themselves admit: the connection with the verb "tvoriti" is a sound similarity, while the motivation for "to give form" is a beautiful, but speculative, hypothesis.

There isn't a single name for a Russian dish that would be derived from the verb "tvorit" (created) meaning "to do in general." Because the names of dishes in the language are always specific—they describe either a process (to ferment, to salt, to boil, to steam), or a result (sour, salty, boiled), or a form (flatbread, kolobok).

And "tvorog" (curd) comes from "tvorit" (created)—it doesn't mean "something abstract." In Turkic-Mongolian, "taryk" means curdled milk. What do dictionaries say about "tvorog" and "turokh":

"The Mongols call a similar drink "Mongolian tarag," the Tuvans call it "taryk," and the Kalmyks call it "targ." Modern linguistic research suggests that the Russian word "tvorog" derives from the Mongolian word "taryg."

Turakh (Divine Torakh) is a thick, fermented milk product of the Chuvash peoples, which is used to hold a wooden spoon.

Tarak (tarag, targ) is a fermented milk product among the Turkic peoples and in Mongolia.

Torak (turak) is cheese or boiled fermented milk in the Chagatai language.

Targ is thick, sour, curdled milk among the Kalmyks.

Tuvan Taryk is a fermented milk product. Inconsistency with the Indo-European etymology of the Greek word Tyuros (cheese) - If the Slavs had borrowed the word τυρός (tyros) from the Greeks, they would have said "tyuros" or "tyurya."

Because:

"Tyurya" already exists in Russian—it's easily pronounced.

Slavs have no phonetic problems with the [tyur-] sound.

There was no need to transform "tyuros" into "tvorog."

"Tvorog" and "tyuros" are two completely different words, not even remotely similar.

To get "tvorog" from "tyuros," you'd have to invent a chain of three or four unnatural sound changes that don't appear anywhere else in Slavic. Why was it necessary to add a V and a G at the end?

Why do linguists do this?

They want to prove that tvorog is "originally Slavic." To do this, they need to find a relative in other Indo-European languages. The closest is the Greek τυρός (cheese). It doesn't matter that the words sound different. They announce: "These are regular alternations of vowels and consonants in the Indo-European proto-language." ~2026-31453-34 (talk) 22:08, 29 May 2026 (UTC)

Synonyms of Tvorog and Curd

It seems to me that there is one big problem here: I am a Russian speaker, and I see that 'Tvorog' is in no way different from 'Curd' in preparation technology, appearance, and this is directly mentioned in the article. It seems to me that this article here and in other language sections was written either by migrants from the post-Soviet space or by people who sympathize with Russian culture but haven't understood the essence of things, just translated the article as if this is a product that appeared and/or is popular only in Russia or Eastern Europe. Yes, maybe it is used there much more often as a standalone product or as a component in other dishes, without adding cream like in cottage cheese or whey like in ricotta. But this doesn’t make it something different; milk can curdle in any country in the world, otherwise by that logic one should write articles about the naming variations in every language. Wikipedia has a generally synonymous concept 'Curd', so the article should be deleted, and it would be good if this were done in other language sections as well. I don't fully know how Wikipedia and its projects work to report this problem to all language sections and fix it everywhere. So I welcome anyone joining here who could share their point of view, including on how this could be fixed in other sections.

The article about the quark is written in the same logic, it straight up says that it's the equivalent of tvorog, but I think due to the established nature of the concept, it has its place. There are also minimal differences.

Also, pay attention to the article "Acid-set cheese," which initially says that this is cheese that sours naturally, meaning a specific concept of the more general concept "Curd," but then it lists the things that make the article identical to "Curd" (use of enzymes, acid maybe). Ewireijgf (talk) 00:20, 27 June 2026 (UTC)

I don't think they are synonyms, curd is what you heat to make tvorog (or further process to make cheese). But I agree with quark being the same. A slight difference in moisture or fat content doesn't make it a different product. Colbertson (talk) 11:31, 28 June 2026 (UTC)

I realized my mistake, curd is just the coagulated and unstrained milk. But if you look at the article about Acid-set cheese, there's no difference between this and that article. As mentioned before, this product isn't specific to any particular country. It's used everywhere as an ingredient for making other cheeses. Ewireijgf (talk) 20:09, 28 June 2026 (UTC)