Talk:The Bigg Chill/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Ovinus (talk · contribs) 01:30, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the ytral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Main focus will probably be parts I perceive to be promotional. I have a visceral reaction to Wikipedia company articles, so don't hesitate to push back if you feel I'm being unfair.

I totally get where you're coming from; I spent my earlier months on wikipedia cruft-cutting from corporate articles. The amount of words people can think of to say literally nothing is astounding. That said, I approached this pretty much the way I would any other article. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

• "Diane Dinow, daughter Cary Russell, and son Michael Mendelsohn" Are the owners of a restaurant important enough to put in the lead like this? I think being put in History is sufficient
  • Why not? The founders aren't super notable, sure, but I think that they're pretty essential to the business. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
• "when they reported seeing as many as 1,000 customers on a weekday" See below
• "rotation of conventional flavors" Er... maybe just "breadth of flavors" or "variety of flavors"? I don't really understand what you mean
  • Like below; having lots of flavors might mean that they have the trendy L.A. scene stuff like dragonfruit. So, "variety of conventional flavors"? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
    • Ye, I like that
• I'd recommend putting the Store section below the History section.
  • I think it looks a little awkward given the various section sizes, but I'd be happy to if you think so. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
    • Fair point, let's keep it as is
• "they could see as many as 1,000 customers a day" I don't know if we should be parroting their claims to popularity. I don't doubt them, but I'd prefer a third-party source on popularity if available, even if it's less quantifiable
  • It's published in the Los Angeles Times—I think it's usable if attributed inline, under WP:PRIMARY. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
    • Fair enough. How about as a compromise we remove it from the lead but keep it in the body? Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
• Is the origin of the name under enough doubt to be attributed to the LA Times?
  • I was a little jarred about not finding it anywhere else, but I'm happy to remove the inline attribution. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
    • Not even on their own site, it seems... attribution is fine Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
• "securing a US$100,000 loan (US$182,824 in today's money) from the First Citizens Bank in Sherman Oaks to open it" Not relevant
  • Why not? It says in the source that Dinow had quite a bit of trouble finding a loan, and it is actually relevant to the operation of the business. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
    • Hm... okay. Well why is the particular bank that they chose important? Maybe just remove "from ... Oaks" as a compromise? Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
• "Dinow also expressed a desire to open one more store for her son, Michael Mendelsohn, to manage" I don't really think this is relevant either; it doesn't really inform us of anything Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
  • I suppose so; tentatively cut. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
• "In 2020, the store collaborated with an Instagram streetwear brand known as Fam Los Angeles to produce merchandise" Not relevant, unless it's received more coverage than one sentence in an Eater article
  • Fair enough, that's cut. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
• "Conversely, The Bigg Chill received considerable social media encouragement, with one user commenting "I don't even live in LA but I want to show my support! I love Demi but I disagree with [Lovato] on this one"." I don't think the comments of a single social media user are important enough to be used as an example here. There's already enough context. I'd suggest just removing this sentence entirely
  • Yeah, the spike in coverage made due weight a bit of a challenge. I cut the line. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
• "designer frozen yogurt flavors" Not really a review comment, but... wtf is that
  • listen, it's los angeles. mass-marketed bourgeoisie. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
    • sigh Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
• Are there any other sources which directly contrast Pinkberry and this store?
  • Didn't find much reliable sourcing on that in my research, but if you've got any... theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
    • Cool. Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
• "resistance to exotic flavors" So they have 400 non-exotic flavors?
  • I mean someone paid me a steady income to think of 400 flavors that couldn't be construed as bougie or exotic, I'd get 'em a list by tuesday. Like, you can have lots of red velvets and pink strawberrys without resorting to green tea passion fruit (like what happened in 2006). At least, that's how I interpreted the source. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
    • Sounds good. I'll have to visit this place if I ever visit LA... Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

      it's pretty good! i recommend getting the plain tart if you end up getting a lot; it cuts through the monotonous overdrive sweetness. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 07:07, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

• "despite its location in West Los Angeles" Is this original research?
  • From the source: Yes, it's technically in West L.A., but it's a UCLA institution! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
    • Great. Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
• In the lead, "it has inspired at least one other frozen yogurt store" is a bit too much. In the body is okay, though
  • Happy to remove that if you think so. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
    • My rationale is that it isn't really the company's doing (only "inspiration"), and the store which took that inspiration isn't notable. But in the body for sure Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

That's all for now. I made some hands-on tweaks as well. Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 02:06, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

• Thanks for the review, Ovinus! I've responded to everything, I think theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

  @Ovinus: all done :) theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 07:06, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Second, quick pass

• 'rather than "Taro" or "Green Tea" ' Probably remove this... it's kind of a weird contrast if they're not selling them? Also, is green tea really a "designer" ice cream?
  • @Ovinus: I mean, the point is that they're not selling them, right? It's not worth it to give an example? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:19, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
    • It's odd to me for some reason, but fair enough. Ovinus (talk) 01:22, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
• "characterized the ice cream as good, but not out of the ordinary" how about just "characterized the ice cream as not out of the ordinary"; I think it's more straightforward
  • Hmm, fair enough- changed theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:19, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
• "resistance to exotic flavors, commenting that they did not "sell out to yogurt trends" when a rival store was opened nearby" How does the second part relate to the first?
  • When the pinkberry craze was going on in 2006, part of that was a trend of exotic flavours; The Bigg Chill mostly chose not to follow along. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:19, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

That's all. I'll pass after we discuss the remaining comments. Ovinus (talk) 20:49, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.