Talk:Thai Chinese

Clarity of information

What does this article want to talk about? Thai people with some Chinese ancestry Or Thais of Chinese descent or Chinese people in Thailand? Dask0666 (talk) 07:18, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

This article is talking about Chinese people in Thailand that have Thai citizenship. It does include Thai people with Chinese ancestry/Thais of Chinese descent, whether fully or partial Chinese descent. But it does not include Chinese nationals from People's Republic of China. Chinese people generally mix with Thai people due to intermarry with each other as they have shared common customs and the Buddhist religion, that is why they are numbered up to 40% (including of mixed Chinese descent) and comprised of 26 million people. The core number of Thai Chinese itself though, its still around 9 million people or around 14% of the Thai people who are fully of Chinese descent and with Thai citizenship. Pineapplethen (talk) 12:01, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

This article should only be about people of "full" Chinese ancestry in Thailand (both parents and grandparents of Chinese descent). Not partial ancestry. If you include mixed people then the percentage is much higher, because many Thai are mixed. Mixed people have multiple ancestries. Or there should be a very clear distinction between mixed people and "full Chinese ancestry". -Artanisen (talk) 13:49, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

Reaffirmed 40% of Thais have at least partial Chinese ancestry, Indonesia does not have the biggest overseas Chinese population

The original edit confirmed that 40% of Thais have at least partial ancestry , which I restored with a source. Indonesia does not the have the biggest no. 1 overseas Chinese in the world, this is not because of persecution or discrimination, but it is due to the Dutch themselves moving fewer Chinese to Indonesia compared to mass migrations of Chinese in Malaya (modern-day Malaysia). In the 1930 Dutch East Indies census (in which its last territory makes up modern-day Indonesia) there are around 1,233,214 Chinese-Indonesians and in Indonesian 2010 census there are 2,832,510 Chinese-Indonesians. In 80 years time, they increased only about 1,599,296 people from 1930 to 2010. How could by 15 years they increased to 10 million (+7.2 million), or 8 million (+5.2 million), its logically impossible since, they only increase around 200,000 per decade. Indonesia remains a largely secular state, why is the number of Chinese-Indonesians lower than Malaysia or Thailand, its because of historical and social factors like the Dutch colonization times, not solely because of discrimination. Just like Chinese Australians or Vietnamese Chinese have lower Chinese population but not discriminated against, same factors are with Chinese-Indonesians. The Statista source isn't reliable to be counted as a source. Thailand will be returned as the country with the largest overseas Chinese communities on this page, with up to 40% (26 million people) of Thais having partial Chinese ancestry. Pineapplethen (talk) 15:44, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Partial Chinese ancestry means they're mixed with multiple ethnicities. That doesn't count as being fully or exclusively of Chinese descent. A more accurate term is Mixed Thai people. However, many Thai are already mixed due to centuries of migration and assimilation with the various major population groups in this region that is present-day Thailand. -Artanisen (talk) 01:29, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

References

Drive-by / IP addresses population figures editing

Hello. Over the past month, IP addresses have removed sourced population / number figures, without discussion, and without sourcing. Here are the diffs: diff1 diff2 diff3 diff4 If anyone would like to further edit the numbers without a source, let's discuss it here. This removing of information feels like it has an agenda. If further edits happen without discussion, I will take this to the appropriate people. IslaAntilia (talk) 11:50, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 31 March 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. All opposed, presenting strong arguments. (closed by non-admin page mover) 1isall (talk | contribs) 14:33, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

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Thai Chinese → Chinese ThaiChinese Thai – More correct English is "Chinese Thai", people of Chinese ancestry with Thai nationality. This is similar to for example "Chinese Americans" which are Americans of Chinese ancestry. An "American Chinese" is a Chinese national of American origin. A Thai Chinese is a Chinese national of Thai origin. - Artanisen (talk) 13:39, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

Oppose. There's no one "correct" way to use English when referring to nationals of a country but of the ancestry of a different country (not sure how to put it more simply); example being British Indians (people of Indian ancestry with British nationality) and Malaysian Chinese (people of Chinese ancestry with Malaysian nationality). Also noting that numerous sources use "Thai Chinese" (or the hyphenated version) when referring to such people, including Thai media such as Khaosod, The Nation, Pattaya Mail and Thai Public Broadcasting Service, and foreign ones such as The Straits Times and South China Morning Post, and that Ngrams show both "Thai-Chinese" and "Thai Chinese" being used more often than "Chinese Thai", indicating "Thai Chinese"/"Thai-Chinese" is the WP:COMMONNAME. S5A-0043🚎^(Talk) 13:33, 3 April 2026 (UTC)

When a term is used a lot that doesn't mean it's more accurate. What do you call a Chinese national of Thai ancestry (origin)? For example African Chinese are people of African origin in China (with Chinese nationality): 非裔中國人 / 非裔中国人 or 非裔華人. So people of Thai origin in China would be called Thai Chinese. -Artanisen (talk) 14:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC)

You never cited a single policy/guideline in your comments, and only stated your opinions that it is “more correct” or “accurate”. Wikipedia is not a place to do that. We follow what sources use, which is what COMMONNAME means. The counterexamples of British Indians and Malaysian Chinese also prove that there are multiple ways to present ancestry and nationality, something you seemed to ignore in your reply. And as for your question What do you call a Chinese national of Thai ancestry (origin), 1. The group is very obscure and small (to the point where I gave up on Google and had to use ChatGPT to search for info); 2. That article doesn’t exist; and 3. Even if that article exists, the article whose talk page we’re on is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for “Thai Chinese” anyways, so we can follow articles like Filipinos in Germany and title it as Thais in China instead of having to hijack the title of this article. S5A-0043🚎^(Talk) 02:49, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

I wonder if the African Chinese article should be moved. I think "Africans in China" is a more common phrase for the people who are the main subject of that article. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 00:36, 5 April 2026 (UTC)

Oppose. If only language were so standardized! American Chinese is, in fact, ambiguous. Chinese American is one of the common meanings. My sense is that "Thai Chinese" is the more common term, and this is consistent with S5A-0043's findings. I realize this is not definitive but we need a good reason to change article titles and we have no policy- or evidence-based rationale here. Meanwhile, the available arguments and evidence favor the current title. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 15:41, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose. The nomination statement seems to ignore traditional English usage in the context of the Chinese diaspora. The nominator says An "American Chinese" is a Chinese national of American origin, but actually the phrase "American Chinese" most often refers to Chinese-Americans. Aside from some Chinese-Americans, there are very few Chinese nationals of American origin, and I don't know of any common term for them.

Other similar phrases include Malaysian Chinese, Straits Chinese, Overseas Chinese, and Singaporean Chinese. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 00:36, 5 April 2026 (UTC)

Agree. Although I noted above that "American Chinese" is ambiguous, I must admit I was surprised that this is not a redirect to Chinese American. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 03:34, 5 April 2026 (UTC)

Oppose (not completely). Maybe a middle ground can be reached by hyphenating the title? Thai-Chinese, as that will remove the ambiguity highlighted by the OP. Thai by nationality, Chinese by ancestry. I agree with @Mx. Granger that the convention seems to be inverted when it comes to referring to people of Chinese ancestry, so we should preserve that. Given that all the other commonly-used terms redirect to this page, it shouldn't be a problem. YellowKing2008 (talk) 09:46, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

I don't see how a hyphen removes the ambiguity and that would be a departure from how we style other ethno-national compounds, including all the other examples shared in this thread. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 13:42, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose. Just because the Americans do it one way doesn't mean that's the correct way. For instance, we in Britain do it the other way: British Indian, British Chinese, etc (meaning a British national of Indian or Chinese ancestry, not an Indian or Chinese national of British ancestry). Different cultures, different terminology. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:11, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.