Talk:Signaculum

Split?

Manufacturer's mark PRIMIT

The article appears to describe two different meanings of the Latin word: (1) a dog tag and (2) a factory mark (sometimes referred to as signaculum ex aere). These are described in entirely different set of sources, like

1. Peretz, Daniel (2005-01-01). "Military Burial and the Identification of the Roman Fallen Soldiers". Klio. 87 (1): 123–138. doi:10.1524/klio.2005.87.1.123. ISSN 2192-7669.
2. (Baratta 2014, First typology of Roman bronze signacula) G. Baratta, Il signaculum al di là del testo: la tipologia delle lamine. In: A. Buonopane, S. Braito, coll. Cr. Girardi (a cura di), Instrumenta inscripta V. Signacula ex aere. Aspetti epigrafici, archeologici, giuridici, prosopografi, collezionisti. Atti del Convegno internazionale (Verona, 20-21 sett. 2012), Roma 2014, 101-132.

While #1 and #2 are clearly related, there is preciously little in common between both (if anything, #1 can be thought of as a subset of #2). Currently, the article starts describing #1 and then switches to #2. I propose to simply split it. Current approaches in other projects:

• commons:Category:Signacula offers a third meaning, a grave marker.
• de:Signaculum follows an approach opposite of ours, starting with #2 in the lead and detailing #1 later (where it describes an eventual switch to tattooing).

Викидим (talk) 16:24, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

@Cynwolfe: Stamped bread appears to be a genuine archeological item described in quality research papers. At the time there was no low cost way to attach a label to the manufactured good, so all the information for the brand promotion or quality enforcement had to be either stamped or chiseled in. Викидим (talk) 19:33, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Викидим: Thanks! I thought I had checked the talk page before doing some editing on this article, but apparently I had not, since I did not until now see your December comment. Yes, I have some additional sources on the bread stamps. Bread seems to have been both stamped (as with a solid cookie cutter that leaves an imprint) and baked in a mold that would produce a design and factory mark. I'm not entirely sure about the image at top yet because I haven't seen others that are so elaborate, and I haven't seen this one referred to in the scholarship yet. I just wanted to make the article a bit tidier and to add some information to indicate the range of what signaculum means. I am not really that motivated to do a lot! The Commons category is currently contested as well. I'm not always convinced that splitting up articles is the best way to go; conceptually, all these forms of signacula are expressions of the characteristic Roman impulse to mark and write on everything, as one source I found observes, which in a way includes tattooing and branding. If someone wants to do the splitting, I certainly wouldn't object. Thanks again. Cynwolfe (talk) 22:14, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

My interest is also very tangential (through Mark (sign)). Anyhow, the new appearance of the article is way better, so I no longer propose a split. I will leave the dog tag aspects and tattooing to Wikipedia:User Somebody "Notme" Else, but might at some point expand the stamping aspect using Baratta's work above. Викидим (talk) 23:40, 9 February 2024 (UTC)