Talk:Siege of Suchdol

Sourcing

Hello @Bigvadrouille549:

I came across this page after seeing your French article on the same subject. I'm also interested in the battles and people of this time and place, and would be interested in helping get this article published in English.

The sourcing you've provided does not verify much of the article (as was discussed on the French Wikipedia) but you mentioned that you've done a lot of research on the subject. If true, you have done an impressive amount of work. Can I ask what sources you have found that verify the information you have written? Is there a reason you have chosen not to cite these sources in the article?

Warm regards, Mbdfar (talk) 03:37, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Hello @Mbdfar!

Yes sorry I will firstly fixing some details that are too much blurry such as the number of soldiers (I used sources of the idea of the number of soldiers in Prague and in lord garison, but it was a long time ago) and also to remove the section about Vysoka, because even if the village belonged to Peter of Pisek, it's only mentionned that Prague troops ravaged the region but we don't have specific names of where.

Im happy that some people want to translate my work. I do this since months and im very interested about this forgotten war.

The rest of the sources are in my original wikipage on the siege of Suchdol. I will do the same fixes for the other pages and I would hope to make a unique page dedicated to this war.

Thank you and have a good day.

Warm regards, @Bigvadrouille549 Bigvadrouille549 (talk) 12:17, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

@Bigvadrouille549: I'm very happy to hear you still have interest in this project!

One thing I have learned is that editors strongly prefer new articles have inline citations throughout, ideally at least at the end of every paragraph. This would be the best way to integrate the sources you've found and to ensure verifiability. If you publish these articles on the English Wikipedia without inline citations, I'm afraid they would probably get moved to draft space or deleted.

I personally think this is very important, as both of us want to improve access to details and documents on this war. Citing these sources will allow future researchers or enthusiasts like us to more easily read these documents.

I've been working on improving the sourcing of Moravian Margrave Wars. I started by translating the Czech article, and have been finding documents that verify and expand on the information. You might be interested in this article if you have not read it yet.

I look forward to seeing how you improve your articles on the battles of this war! Mbdfar (talk) 20:11, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes you right indeed ! I will need to learn 😅

I just learned you did the wikipage on Martin Oderin and Peter of Pisek ! I wanted to do it but you made well their biography

I got a surprise for you and you can include it on your wikipage on Peter of Pisek. Here it is the coat of arms of his family Pisek, from the book of Bohemia heraldries written by the czech historian Petr Corjnec. The reddit post and research is from me with czech friends !

Tryskelion heraldry COMPLETELY RESOLVED : r/kingdomcome Bigvadrouille549 (talk) 19:30, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

I started the pages on Martin Oderin and Peter of Pisek using some of the sources you found, so thank you!

Great find on the coat of arms! I can't seem to find the book you speak of, but if it's in the public domain you can upload the image of the coat of arms to WikiMedia Commons and add it to the article. If the book is not in the public domain, I encourage you to describe the coat of arms of Peter of Pisek in his article using words, and then cite what you wrote using Template:Cite_book. That way, other people will be able to go directly to that source to find out more.

Bigvadrouille549, your enthusiasm and research skills are needed to improve our knowledge in this area. I really encourage you to contribute more of what you have found to the French and English Wikipedias.

I know there is a lot to learn and it can be tricky figuring out the rules on Wikipedia, but please do not get discouraged and reach out to me for help if you have any questions. Once you master appropriately citing your articles, we will all benefit from your contributions! Mbdfar (talk) 23:43, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

I got a lot of czech friends and even a historian from Kutna Hora on KCD server discord (much more easier to speak over there).

I want also to help you by sending this document from the historian Emmnuel Leminger on the Italian Court. You can see that Peter of Pisek was mintmaster between 1391-99, it's can really help you to avoid getting deleted by wiki.

You can update you page with this !

https://www.cms-kh.cz/sites/default/files/books/leminger-kralovska_mincovna.pdf Bigvadrouille549 (talk) 12:28, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the link! Any other sources that you could link here for Petr Pisek or Martin Oderin would be a great help. As you can see from the discussion notices, the notability of Petr and Martin are in question. The editor who wants to delete those articles does not think they pass the guidelines at WP:GNG, which I disagree with but is a valid concern. If you have the time, it would be very helpful if you or your historian friends could find some more references for these articles. Mbdfar (talk) 17:17, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Sure no problem. I prefer to help you than writting my own pages, as I want to be sure to firstly have every possible sources. I collected everything that I have when I was helping Warhorse. You can download it on my google drive and use all documents in main sources folder (very big you might found a lot).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PZaSkveDyh9RGSBCm38S7jSX16hYNFfq/view?usp=gmail

To precise the new discoveries with, my documents, you can update :

Peter of Pisek when his property of Perstejnec was confiscated by Sigismund, it was gave to Lord Mikulas of Jemniste. A loyal lord but he will be of course after punished by Wenceslas IV when he came back to Kutna Hora at the end of 1403.

You can even made a whole wiki page on Pisek family and even other patrician families thanks to my documents as there's a lot of details about family members and their properties. (Im very excited and you will have a lot of fun as the documents I took comes from the director of archives of Kutna Hora).

I even learned that Hanush of Pisek was the son of Peter of Pisek.

For the Pisek coat of arms that I sent to you, I found the precise book you can put now : Erbovník 2 from Mysliveček an Čornej.

I hope it will really help you a lot. I managed to get those documents from my czech historian friend Martin Bartos Bigvadrouille549 (talk) 12:07, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Hey ! If you want I followed your advises and decided to put my passion and I made one of the first event of this civil war, I hope you will like it.

And I hope that my sources in google drive help you a lot !

Siège de Skala (1402) — Wikipédia Bigvadrouille549 (talk) 18:01, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Hello again friend. Thank you for the link to the Google folder, you have found some interesting stuff! I'm still going through some of it, but I really appreciate your help.

I'm very happy to see you still creating articles and adding citations. The Siege of Skala is a very interesting battle! Don't forget to add some citations to the "Context" and "Consequences" sections too 😊

Let me know when you make more articles, I enjoy reading your work. Happy editing! Mbdfar (talk) 22:29, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Yes ! Im sure you can find a lot of things useful.

It was pretty hard to make it but I finally did a wikipage about Jan of Semine and I put everything from sources that I linked. Tell me if you like it and you can maybe translate it :

Jan de Semine — Wikipédia Bigvadrouille549 (talk) 13:10, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

Love it! I might translate that one if my last two articles don't get deleted. Mbdfar (talk) 14:47, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

Hey ! Im happy that it was removed the threat of being deleted !

I wanted to share to you maybe my most well written wiki page : Siège de Týnec (1404) — Wikipédia

It's about the siege of Tynec when there was at the same time the siege of Znojmo. Tell me your opinion about it ! Bigvadrouille549 (talk) 11:12, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

Me too! But I will continue to work on my translation and research skills to improve both articles. Your Siege of Týnec article is excellent. It seems exceptionally well researched – and just as importantly – well cited. Great job, keep it up! I challenge you to write a French article on the Moravian Margrave Wars. I bet you could be even more detailed than I was in the English article. I think it would be a great way to link together all of your articles and to build the web! Mbdfar (talk) 12:56, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

I can always do that but now im mainly focused on remake my work and to discover new potential events to create new wiki pages about this war !

Such as this one. What do you think now of my remake ?

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embuscade_de_Lochy Bigvadrouille549 (talk) 11:19, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

Without going too deep into the sources, I think it is very well written and I'm glad to see all your citations. However, I do understand some of what Nanoyo mentioned on your talk page. I disagree with them about old sources, but I do agree that it can be tricky to navigate the no original research rule. Of course researching is necessary to create a good article, but the nuance of WP:SYNTH is important.

Consider this distinction (I apologize if this doesn't translate well, it is subtle); in the sources, it might state that there was a battle at Lochy. But was there an event that the sources call the "Ambush of Lochy"? That is the issue the other editor is concerned with.

I would consider that maybe not every military engagement of the war needs it's own article. The big important ones, definitely. But this is why I think it would be great for you to also work on a larger article about the Margrave Wars, so you can still research and document this great information in a way where the notability of the individual battles won't be questioned.

Take the deleted "Attack on Skalice" article for example. I think the context of that event is important, but I agree that it might not be notable enough to pass WP:EVENT. However, you could still research this event to add the information to the articles on Skalice, Radzig Kobyla, and the Margrave Wars. This way, the information would be easily accessible to those who would like to learn more, and it will improve our understanding of all three subjects. That is the approach I have taken so far on the English Wikipedia.

I'm not saying you've done anything wrong, in fact I'm very impressed by all the work you put into your articles and your efforts to improve yourself. Now it is just the small details, and figuring out how other editors interpret the rules.

Please keep contributing and asking for feedback. Your work is important, and you've already learned so much. I hope this does not discourage you. Sorry this is so long. Let me know if you have any questions or need me to reword anything that does not translate well.

Warm regards, Mbdfar (talk) 01:30, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Oh yes absolutly you right. If you want to know it the czech historian from Caslav Kliment Cernak, I respect a lot his works and it's him who brought a lot of details of this event and he even find the precise location where it happned. Because in all other sources it's just says "Between Kutna Hora and Caslav" so im really happy.

I should have put this source also but there's a german chronicle who also studied these conflitcs and he affirms that it was a battle (Schlacht).

Im really serious of what I do and yes of course I will not make a wiki page for every single events xD

I respect the work of every historians as I want to document this war, with the help as I told you of my czech historian friend from Kutna Hora called Martin Bartos, and to not let it forgotten.

In fact I just completely remade the siege of Suchdol (Took me a lot of times) I hope now it's looks like more professional !

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si%C3%A8ge_de_Suchdol_(1402) Bigvadrouille549 (talk) 10:58, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kliment_%C4%8Cerm%C3%A1k Bigvadrouille549 (talk) 11:00, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

That's really cool, thank you for sharing. The Suchdol article looks great! Mbdfar (talk) 11:47, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

Hey I just made this one Conquête de Žleby (1402) — Wikipédia

I could do it thanks to this great huge PDF from the university of Karlova and made by Michal Hokeš about the politic and military actions of Sigismund before 1419 ! Maybe it's can help you

Obsah Bigvadrouille549 (talk) 12:03, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

Very interesting. I wonder if Jindřich Lacembok of Chlum is related to John of Chlum. Mbdfar (talk) 14:04, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

Oh yes im sure, that wouldn't be a coincidence !

In fact I completely remade the french page of the siege of Kutna Hora by also putting the letter of Sigismund where he sent it to all czech cities, knights, lords to go help him to besiege the city : Siège de Kutná Hora (1402) — Wikipédia

I even updated the one of the czech page version. I hope you like it and you can use the image of the letter and content ! Bigvadrouille549 (talk) 19:12, 14 April 2025 (UTC)