Talk:Siege of Soissons

Verifying facts

I cant verify much in the September section under the Siege heading. I have checked all the references I can find online However 2 of the References provided have different information than that described in the article. The article states

"On September 10, a parliamentary dragoon officer of the 12th army corps appeared at the Porte Saint-Martin to request the surrender of Soissons. Colonel de Noue, the commander at Soissons, categorically refused."

However Reference 7 on page 95 has the following passage mentioning a different date and army corps: "and consequently the head of the IVth Prus- sian army corps belonging to that army arrived before the fortress on the 11th September. Major von Wittich, of the general staff, was sent into the fortress with a flag of truce, to ask the Com- mandant to evacuate the place. The latter received him politely, but decisively rejected the proposal."

And Reference 13 states (using Translate) mentioning correct date but different town Gate and no army corp designation: "A Prussian parliamentarian, accompanied by three or four horsemen, presents himself on horseback here at the gate of Rheims. The crowd gathered. Soldiers form a hedge. The parliamentarian was brought into the presence of the commander of Noüe and asked him, on behalf of a marshal who commanded the army corps to which he belonged, what the intentions of the place were. The commander replied that the marshal must not be unaware that an officer has only one line of conduct and must fulfill to the end the mission entrusted to it, that the place is well armed, that it has an imposing garrison animated by the best spirit, that the inhabitants are ready to make any sacrifice, that everyone, in a word, is disposed to bury themselves under the walls, rather than surrender."

Reference 13 does mention this for the 14th September which is also mentioned in the article: "A second parliamentarian presented himself in front of the square, sent by the commander of the 4th Prussian corps (13). This parliamentarian having asked the French commander the question of the surrender of the city, the latter replied that it was in a perfect state of defence, and that the population, as well as the garrison, was determined to preserve for France the important place of Soissons."

I'm new to editing articles to this level. What is usually done when things are contradictory or can't be verified? This whole article is hard to read Hayech (talk) 04:59, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Hello Hayech,

I am relatively new too but I may be able to shed some thoughts. The English version was created and translated 26 July 2021 from the French, which itself had been created on 21 octobre 2014.

I can only stipulate but Wikipedia generally doesn't allow you to copy paste full articles to create their translated version in the language that you wish. It looks like it was translate in part which may explain he discrepancies of sources and quote placements.

One way is would be to compare the two versions side by side (taking into consideration of course that French Wikipedia has a different encyclopedic style. Some things might not necessarily have been lost in translation but lost in transition (if hat makes sense).

As to what can be done when sources can't be verified, that's what notes at the top of the page can be used for, encouraging talks if the subject matter not familiar to you to let readers know that some of the info may be inaccurate (unless a source is found). Marveloushistorian (talk) 04:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC)

Hello @Marveloushistorian and @Hayech,

I am also a newer editor.I noticed some things and wanted to let people know and/or help fix them.

Firstly, I noticed an issue when attempting to edit the references sections.This is the list of references that appears at the bottom of the page in viewer mode:

"

1. "Soissons before and during the war"
2. Tony Jaques, Dictionary of Battles and Sieges: P-Z, Page 959
3. Richard Harding Davis, With the Allies, Page 40
4. "The Times history of the war"
5. Hester Marshall, Cathedral cities of France, Page 38
6. Edmund Ollier, Cassell's history of the war between France and Germany, 1870-1871, Episode 1, Page 323
7. "The siege operations in the campaign against France, 1870-71."
8. Randal Howland Roberts (sir, 4th bart.), Modern war: or The campaigns of the first Prussian army, 1870-71, Page 316
9. "The Franco-German war of 1870-71"
10. Valentin, Veit (1935). "Wallenstein, after Three Centuries". The Slavonic and East European Review. 14 (40): 154–162.
11. "Soissons capitulated on Sunday, after a siege of only four days". The Spectator. 22 October 1870. Retrieved 25 April 2026.
12. La grand-garde ou les grand-gardes étaient les avant-postes
13. Le front est une partie de l'enceinte d'une forteresse tournée dans une direction d'attaque possible et comprise entre deux angles flanqués
14. René Fossé d'Arcosse : Le siège de Soissons en 1870 "

However when I try to edit the article switches to this much smaller list of references instead:

"

1. "Soissons capitulated on Sunday, after a siege of only four days". The Spectator. 22 October 1870. Retrieved 25 April 2026.
2. La grand-garde ou les grand-gardes étaient les avant-postes
3. Le front est une partie de l'enceinte d'une forteresse tournée dans une direction d'attaque possible et comprise entre deux angles flanqués
4. René Fossé d'Arcosse : Le siège de Soissons en 1870

I'm not sure what this is, why it's happening or how to fix it.

Additionaly, I believe that these 2 items

"

• La grand-garde ou les grand-gardes étaient les avant-postes
• Le front est une partie de l'enceinte d'une forteresse tournée dans une direction d'attaque possible et comprise entre deux angles flanqués

should not be in a references sections but instead in a notes section as they are simply definitions or explanations of certain terms used in the article (I can't seem to figure how to format them into notes though)

Also, the article has a bibliography section which is not something I've seen previously. Other articles will often have See Also, External Links or Further Reading sections, so I'm not sure (this migth just be my fault being new and not knowing what it is.I tried to look around wikipedia editing guides but have not found anything that mentions a bibliogrpahy specifically instead of the usual references section).I'm not sure if these are or are not sources for some of the seemingly unverifiable information in the article.

I've also taken a look at the french version of the page, where the sources are similiar sparse (the bolded sources are source that are used both for the french and english page)

Notes et références

1. Colonel Fraboulet de Kerléadec, blessé et décédé le 11 septembre 1870 à la bataille de Saint-Privat
2. La grand-garde ou les grand-gardes étaient les avant-postes
3. Le front est une partie de l'enceinte d’une forteresse tournée dans une direction d’attaque possible et comprise entre deux angles flanqués
4. René Fossé d'Arcosse : Le siège de Soissons en 1870

Bibliographie

• D Vincent : Souvenir d'un soldat de 1870. Siège de Soissons
• René Fossé d'Arcosse : Le siège de Soissons en 1870
• Émile Collet : Le siège de Soissons et l'occupation allemande dans le Soissonnais 1870-1871

I am perplexed by the fact that french page is much longer and has no visible complaints about citations despite using fewer sources than the english page.I believe that Marveloushistorian is correct and that a lot of things were lost in translation, when the english page was created, but I also think the french page may need to be verified just in case.

I speak French, so if somebody can get the list of references fixed on the english page or just send me all the sources,I could try to take a look to try to verify/improve the information in this article (without having to use google translate to read the sources)

P.S. Sorry if I sound rude or awkward and that this is so long A Nerdy Hedgehog (talk) 17:44, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

Hello all again,

So I went to the French version again, which is also undergoing some type of work as well in the recent weeks.

One of the sources is Siège de Soissons : souvenirs d'un soldat de 1870, Vincent, D (ex maréchal des logis chef d artillerie). As primary source goes, it is the best lead to figure out where the automatic transition positioned segments as the French one relies heavily on this memoir. This also explain why much of the language is overly technical in some cases and vague in other. I have not seen an English translation of it but the other source is from a former curator of the Soissons museum, but both were witnesses. Given that, it is understandable that one source mentions something specific while the other remains vague as each are trying to recount the events in as much detail as possible but for what ever reason omits a specific detail.

Given that both a primary sources, it just comes to a judgment call as to where we think the semantics fell. Did he outright refuse, or did he refuse but remain diplomatic? At the end of the day, Colonel de Noue refuse to simply surrender the city, that much is certain. Marveloushistorian (talk) 03:27, 5 June 2026 (UTC)