Talk:Sapiah

Article title

I have been working on expanding the article, and along the way, I am not seeing the chief referred to by Sapiah much. In Indian Bureau and census records, he's referred to as Charles Buck - without his Ute name when other family members do have their Ute name - and newspapers and other publications generally referred to him as Buckskin Charlie.

From newspapers.com:

• "Buckskin Charley" or "Buckskin Charlie" and Ute 946 matches
• "Sapiah" 1 match
• I am having a hard time zeroing in on this specific Charles Buck, but it is probably a subset of 234 Charles Bucks in Colorado

Based upon WP:Common name, it seems to me that the article title should be "Buckskin Charlie". What do you think?–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:29, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

I have no strong feelings either way. I don't object to keeping it as it is, because the name is his birth name. I first came to this article a couple of years ago when I read The owl in Monument Canyon. In the book, he's Buckskin Charley. That's what I searched to find out more about him here, and a redirect/cross-reference led me to the article.

Two things I don't understand about the article in its current state are: "Sarah (Pah-Ho-SE)" and "Frances (Tri-ni-dad)." The parenthetical expressions, presumably pronunciation guides, don't match the names.

Jeffrey Beall (talk) 15:17, 12 March 2024 (UTC).

Jeffrey Beall, Thanks for your reply. Regarding your "two things", the names in parenthesis are their Ute names, so I added the link for Ute language like "Sarah (Ute: Pah-Ho-SE)". Is it "two things" because you provided two names?

I don't think the hyphens are for pronunciation - that's the way their Ute names are written, like in the census records.

Regarding the article title, my vote is for Buckskin Charley per WP:Commonname, but I won't lose sleep over keeping it Sapiah.–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:37, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, the two things were the two names. Adding Ute: before the name clears up my confusion. Thanks,

Jeffrey Beall (talk) 15:43, 12 March 2024 (UTC).

Are there any additional thoughts about the article title? It would be helpful to have more than 2 votes. If so, do you have a guideline for your vote?

I have also posted the question at Talk:Ute people#Article title and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Colorado#Saphiah Article title.

I will keep this up until March 20, seven days after today's post at Ute people's and WikiProject Colorado talk pages.

Thanks!–CaroleHenson (talk) 13:57, 13 March 2024 (UTC)