Talk:Papaver setigerum

Synonym of Papaver somniferum

According to Plants of the World Online Papaver setigerum is a synonym of Papaver somniferum. If this plant is an important enough garden plant it could be retained under one of its common names. Otherwise it should be turned into a redirect to Papaver somniferum, pulling out any good sources to be added to that article. Opinions? 🌿MtBotany (talk) 17:57, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

Further information listed as valid in World Plants and accepted in World Flora Online. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 18:07, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

Papaver setigerum looks like a good species to me. My rule of thumb is that different ploidy levels represent different species (this may break down for high polyploids), so I had provisionally concluded that it was distinct from Papaver somniferum. (This issue came to my attention because disturbance of a seed bank resulted in the temporary appearance of a population of poppies at Ness Botanic Gardens that was not Papaver somniferum, but was closer to that than anything I knew.) It turns out that Papaver setigerum is an allopolyploid rather than an autopolyploid, which strengthens the case for specific rank.

However the Grey-Wilson monograph only mentions Papaver setigerum in passing as a subspecies of Papaver sommniferum.

Some recent papers

• https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-37939-2.pdf
• https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26330-8.pdf
• https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-04056-3.pdf

Lavateraguy (talk) 00:02, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

@MtBotany @Lavateraguy having taken a quick look through those 3 papers (particularly the first, showing extensive reciprocal non-monophyly), I'd be inclined to agree with POWO in subspecific treatment for setigerum under P. somniferum - MPF (talk) 01:08, 4 January 2026 (UTC)

Polyploidy and especially allopolyploidy is a common mechanism for plant speciation. Short of taking a close look at the data, that first paper makes what I would see as pretty much a slam dunk case for species status for Papaver setigerum as hybridogenous allopolyploid species.

Their model is that there was first a split between corn poppies (genome DD) and opium poppies (genomes AA, BB, CC). First there was polyploidisation event involving a diploid "protosommiferum" and a corn poppy, giving rise to "protosetigerum" (genome BBDD). Then a tetraploid "sommniferum" (genome AACC) formed, involving if two distinct species (allopolyploid), two fairly distinct populations (segmental allopolyploid), or a single population (autopolyploid) followed by genome divergence during diploidisation. Finally "somniferum" crossed with "protosetigerum", giving the octoploid P. setigerum (genome AABBCCDD). Lavateraguy (talk) 16:58, 4 January 2026 (UTC)