Talk:Macbeth

Semi-protected edit request on 17 November 2024

I suggest changing the phrase "committed suicide" to "died by suicide" in the discussion of Lady Macbeth. This is due to the changing language around suicide to avoid portraying it as a crime (e.g., https://www.irmi.com/articles/expert-commentary/language-matters-why-we-dont-say-committed-suicide). It is less important for a fictional character, but I think it's still good to use better phrasing. 2601:1C0:4C01:5F70:C0D0:1871:8460:7CC1 (talk) 20:03, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I think this is an overemphasis on one very specific definition of the word "commit".The word commit implies neither immorality nor criminal behaviour. If a politician commits himself to a particular government policy, should we impeach him? Is it a crime or immoral when a romantic couple make a commitment to each other? Or you commit your grandmother to a care home? Besides, changing the terminology does not change the nature of the act. Suicide is a tragedy, no matter what you call it.Mediatech492 (talk) 03:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Partly done: My issue was more with the "meaning that..." wording that suggested there's no room for interpretation (yes, it's widely believed she killed herself, but it's not a definite fact that should be told in wikivoice). In amending that wording, I switched to "death by suicide", which, issues with using "commit" aside, I believe flows better in the context. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 16:56, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: The Renaissance

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 January 2025 and 24 April 2025. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Isawthetvglow (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Mntagov, DootDoodleOotDoot, Myangelicwings, PP14763, Quillspire, Pradagirls.

— Assignment last updated by Maude Jolly (talk) 14:40, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2025

Please add "Other Adaptations" section beneath "Performance History". In 2021, author D. M. Wright released two novels "Beth Mac: Part One" and "Beth Mac: Part Two" as a contemporary gender-swap horror-comedy retelling of Macbeth with Australian Rules Football in an American College. REF: https://amz.cx/3Mr6 and https://amz.cx/3Mr7. 175.35.196.18 (talk) 02:33, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Please include a reliable source that indicates that these novels are sufficiently notable to warrant inclusion. PianoDan (talk) 22:03, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

Semi-Protected Edit Request on 8 July 2025

I suggest an edit to the section "As a poetic tragedy" to explain the role of L.C. Knights' essay "How Many Children Had Lady Macbeth?" which is the seminal example of the reaction discussed in this section. Here is the edit I would like to make: "Reacting to what he perceived as a concerning trend among critics to treat Shakespeare's characters as real people, L.C. Knights wrote "How Many Children Had Lady Macbeth?" where he argued that "a Shakespeare play is a dramatic poem". In the essay he quotes from Wilson Knight who similarly argued that "The persons, ultimately, are not human at all, but purely symbols of a poetic vision."

pdf of Knight's essay can be found here: https://gwern.net/doc/fiction/criticism/1933-knights-howmanychildrenhadladymacbeth.pdf and the quoted essay from Wilson Knight here: https://bolosbritlit.weebly.com/uploads/4/8/5/7/4857234/evilsecondary.pdf ShakesPBP (talk) 21:05, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

Semi-Protected Edit Request on 8 July 2025 - The Superstition

The section entitled "Superstition" and "The Scottish Play" does not make note of the most enduring story of the superstitions origin, nor does it reference the actual origin of the superstition's origin. The most enduring origin story for the myth is the story of how Shakespeare needed to play the role of Lady Macbeth in an early performance when the young boy intending to play the role fell ill (and eventually died). (see the RSC website: https://www.rsc.org.uk/macbeth/about-the-play/the-scottish-play#:~:text=A%20coven%20of%20witches%20objected,to%20take%20on%20the%20part).

However, the true origins of this superstition come from an early 20th century humorist and theater critic named Max Beerbohm. Beerbohm wrote a satirical article in the style and voice of Samuel Pepys that told the story of Shakespeare needing to play the role of Lady Macbeth. He made the whole thing up from the voice of Samuel Pepyes. See Smith, E. (2013). Macbeth: Language and Writing. And also this interview from the Folger’s Shakespeare Library: https://www.folger.edu/podcasts/shakespeare-unlimited/shakespeare-unlimited-episode-23/

I suggest the entire section be rewritten, but here is a quick edit to improve it:

The most enduring origin story for the superstition involves a young actor intending to play the role of Lady Macbeth but fell in on the night of the performance. According to the story, Shakespeare himself needed to step in to play the role. The story, and the superstition it inspired, however began as a joke. The humorous and theater critic Max Beerbohm wrote a playful article in the style and voice of Samuel Pepys and has Pepys recount the story of Shakespeare playing the role of Lady Macbeth. This story was fabricated by Beerbohm and has does not appear in any contemporary sources. ShakesPBP (talk) 21:26, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

I think this is now so thoroughly exploded that it is no longer "enduring". I did an English degree some 50 years ago & I'd never heard it. Johnbod (talk) 02:30, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

Perhaps 'enduring' is the wrong word. It does appear anytime someone documents a list of examples, and I think it's telling that it is the one highlighted on the Royal Shakespeare website. Maybe "A frequently cited example of the curse involves..." I think it's important to mention because it is example that appears along side the first reference to the curse in Beerbohm's satirical article. ShakesPBP (talk) 08:45, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

Witchcraft

I sourced significant scholarly interpretations of witchcraft and added them to the top of this section. I want to delete the paragraph beginning with the line "In the play, the Three Witches represent darkness, chaos, and conflict, while their role is as agents and witnesses" as I believe my additions more accurately reflect the scholarly literature and this paragraph (as it is) makes definitive claims on the role of witchcraft while citing a source that doesn't specifically center witchcraft. I did not want, however, to make such a significant change without consensus first. ShakesPBP (talk) ShakesPBP (talk) 15:07, 18 August 2025 (UTC)