Talk:Libu

Merger to Ancient Libya

Oppose The discussion at Ancient Libya under "Name" is more about how Libya got it name, than about the Libu tribe. It also could be shortened, since it points to this article as main. The history and geographical sections of that article need to be strengthened. At present it is overweighted in the "Name" section. I think that there is enough information about the Libu, etc. to maintain a separate article. --Bejnar (talk) 18:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

• "Labu: This tribe from which the land of Libya takes its name is sometimes called the Labu, Libu, or Rebu, and appears in many Egyptian texts, such as the inscriptions on the temple at Medinet Habu. The earliest of these texts is the Papyrus Anastasi II in Dynasty XVIII and appear in texts, if only rarely, up until Dynasty XXI. It is unclear for certain where the Labu originated, but they may have originated from west of the region of Libya. It is clear, however, that along with other tribes such as the Meshwesh they replaced the pervious inhabitants of Libya at some time during the New Kingdom. If the Labu are from the west of Libya, then it seems strange to associate them so closely with the Sea Peoples, even if the Labu do fight alongside the Sea Peoples against the Egyptians. Another theory, though, is that the Libu originated in the Balkans and were driven to migration by the Illyrians, with the Libu finally settling in Libya. The other Sea Peoples are generally thought to have originated in the Aegean, in the case of the Peleset, or in Anatolia, in the case of many of the other Sea Peoples tribes. The Labu are characterized by a number of features when they are depicted in Egyptian reliefs, such as fair skin, red hair, and blue eyes. They also wore ornamental cloaks, had one lock of hair, and were tattooed on their arms and legs." http://www.salimbeti.com/micenei/sea.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lapsoo (talk • contribs) 12:47, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

The Name Libu

Is misspelled in the article. r above the vertical line determinative for the thing itself has the meaning name and is not the r glyph used for l. u is a plural form. What we are left with is "ib w" refuge (compare ibhet a Nubian region where ibhty a stone used for beads is found)12.187.95.57 (talk) 18:42, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Short description

@Las davas Hello. I would like to discuss your modification to the article's short description. According to WP:SDCONTENT, "The short description is part of the article content, and is subject to the normal rules on content", and since citations cannot be added in a short description, it therefore must be supported by content and citations within the article itself. In the article itself, the Libu are variously described as a "tribe", "dynasty", or "chiefdom". Nowhere does it say that the Libu people were a "civilization". If you disagree with this depiction, you should first edit the article itself with sources, although bear in mind that a cursory glance through some of the sources currently used also didn't show any evidence of the Libu being refered to as a civilization. Furthermore, your new short description is out of line with the format guidlines for short descriptions, and although I won't revert your revert, do note that this page has been flagged for review, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone else comes along to change it. Regards, Liu1126 (talk) 17:04, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

@Liu1126 well it's more of an observation but I would like to clear myself and my thought what is the civilization well I'm pretty that civilization need to have:

urbanization: libu were urbanized atleast from 1300 bce in that point they encountered the sea people and hired them as mercenaries and also the Meshwesh and from former trades between them we notice that in libya the grow grapes ,wheat and herd cattle which is probably need water in the region of jabal akhadar there is rivers that shrink a little in summer but can be used all of the year and some lake where they can grow and which make them more settle as I like to continue but I may be annoying you so may I continue I have a source that I would mention when I finish Las davas (talk) 17:37, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

@Liu1126 secondly their settlement i. the region of jabal akhdar you may find alot of house that most people tight them back to the libu (libu were always mentioned to be from that region by historians) which depict different kinds like some forts,underground houses and wooden ones which gave them some architectural fees and some say that they build the slonta temple Las davas (talk) 17:41, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

@Liu1126 secondly their settlement i. the region of jabal akhdar you may find alot of house that most people tight them back to the libu (libu were always mentioned to be from that region by historians) which depict different kinds like some forts,underground houses and wooden ones which gave them some architectural fees and some say that they build the slonta temple Las davas (talk) 17:43, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

@Liu1126 that Is for architecture now political government well that get more annoying well by the invasion of the egypt, the egyptian Pharoah mentioned that ded was the king of libu then it was meryey his son then meryey brother which allow us to make the contribution that they had a monarchy of a system Las davas (talk) 17:46, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

@Liu1126 well for spoken language there is ancient berber inscription in jabal akhdar which some research make it tight around 1500bce this and we have another reason and I can be sure that I proved that it can be considered a civilization Las davas (talk) 17:50, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

@Liu1126 in terms of social stratification we know it's probably into three which are the libu king is at the top then the army then the traders and the the farmers then mercenaries tehenu and the meshwesh Las davas (talk) 17:53, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

@Liu1126 the source for this interesting research done by me are The Eastern Libyan book by oric bates can I add the civilization please Las davas (talk) 17:55, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, thank you for taking the time to write back. I've looked at the source you mentioned (The eastern Lybians: an essay by Oric Bates, this is the place I found it: ) but I've been unable to locate specific pieces of evidence that support your statements. Could you give more specific citations to your claims (such as chapter or preferably page numbers)? Additionally, even assuming that your statements are valid, they do not necessarily mean that we can state that Libu is a civilization. In the book, I failed to find an explicit mention of the Libu people as a civilization (the only statement that comes close was on page 142, and even then, it seems like a general statement about Ancient Libya as a whole). WP:SYNTH states that editors cannot "combine different parts of one source to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by the source", as that would constitute original research. If Bates did not explicitly state or conclude the Libu as a civilization, then we cannot state it as such in the article just because his description of the Libu fits certain criteria for civilizations.

Admittedly, I'm not an editor active in Libyan or even African articles, so my conclusions are mostly outsider views on this topic. If you want to, we could request help from WikiProject Libya to come to a judgement on this. Regards, Liu1126 (talk) 15:51, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

@Liu1126 ok still they fit the general description of civilization like sumer and ancient Crete which is i can completely respect all of your thoughts but in this sense of having all the categories to be a civilization I think we should consider them one sorry if I'm annoying or annoying you sir Las davas (talk) 18:50, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

@Liu1126 oh and yes if he said ancient libya as civilization doesn't that mean all of the Libyan tribe Las davas (talk) 19:06, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

@Liu1126 which honestly would be annoying to give them all a civilization but at the time they were under the rule of the libu which we can confirm as civilization now i think Las davas (talk) 19:07, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

@Liu1126 or in another words The Libu were a remarkable civilization that governed all eastern Libyan tribes under their reign, setting them apart as a distinct civilization. Although the book denotes all ancient Libyan tribes, it is pertinent to note that they were dominated by a specific tribe. Perhaps, it is necessary to rewrite their article comprehensively. Las davas (talk) 19:22, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

@Liu1126 I'll take that as yes Las davas (talk) 23:14, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Libu meswesh information

ancient egypt in africa "However, despite much archaeological work on neolithic and Greco-Roman remains, the material culture of the Bronze Age and early Iron Age Libyans (3000 BC-500 BC) has never been identified. Libyans also settled in Egypt's western Delta during the earlier first millennium BC (Kitchen 1973: 345-347, 366-368, 371-372, 376-377), but their presumably (to some degree) distinctive remains have never been found in this archaeologically poorly explored region." oric bates the eastern libyans 1914: "THE Use of Metals. It has been tacitly assumed by many writers that the ancient Libyans of the time of the invasions were in a fairly advanced state of culture because they had arms and utensils of metal. This is a question which needs careful examina-tion, since it has a profound bearing on Libyan civilization, and because it is of deep historical significance." fire of the desert folk fridnans oosenwick 1924: "tury B.C. these tribes, Libu and Tahennu, had a distinct civilization and industry, were ruled by hereditary kings and made political agreements with other tribes and peo-ples, especially with the islanders of the Mediterranean.

The excavation of ancient tombs and dolmens has yielded no definite answer to this very interesting ques-tion concerning the primitive peoples of North Africa, no more than have the designs and drawings discovered on the rocks, which are almost everywhere alike and which must be interpreted or even accepted with the greatest caution, inasmuch as Friedrich Gerhard Rohlfs, one of the authorities on the subject, when investigating in the Sahara, found in a group of primitive rock-draw-ings the picture of a steamer which had been scratched there by the unsacred hand of a more unsacred tourist of our own generation." origin of jard article by arab america: "The history of the Jard also pushes for a reconsideration of Mediterranean history and its truth. Greece and Rome are often regarded as the centers of classical civilization, yet ancient sources suggest otherwise, as older generations, such as the Libu civilization, existed and considered them to be older than the Greeks." stories of the red sea and the persian gulf: "that one of the many reasons for the foundation of Zawiyet Umm al-Rakham was to ensure the continuity of this trade, which may have been threatened by the eastward expansion of the Meshwesh and Libu, disrupting the more cordial trading relationships between the local Libyan population and the mariners. 42 For military reasons, the fortress was not located at the lagoon at Marsa Matruh; instead, it was situated where the width of the coastal plain narrows, and thus at a pinch point for Libyans moving eastwards along the coast. This was a strategic compromise born of necessity, for the deeper waters in the lagoon at Marsa Matruh allowed for the arrival of the menesh-ships that would have brought supplies to the fortress; as White and White noted, the coastline offers, in general, very few opportunities for ships.43 Certainly Aghiba, the nearest anchorage to Zawiyet Umm al-Rakham, is too shallow, although ships could possibly have anchored further off, with goods being transported in small barges or by individuals wading through the shal-lows. No remains, however, have been found in the sea. One of the maga-zines in the fortress at Zawiyet Umm al-Rakham contained Canaanite and Mycenaean storage jars alongside Egyptian ones, as well as a small Mycenaean pilgrim flask, so-called, and Cypriot base-ring lentoid flasks and even base-ring teapots, the latter rarely found abroad.44 Given the lack of an anchorage close to the fortress, the presence of these items would support the notion that Bates' Island was the point of access for these goods. Certainly it is difficult to imagine that the Egyptians, so far from the Nile Valley, would decline the opportunity to such acquire goods." mysterious lands: "Excavations in the magazines north of the temple, in the re-excavated chapels south of the temple, and in the food-processing area have yielded a series of imported ceramics, including Levantine transport pottery and coarse-ware 'stirrup jars', the standard features of Late Bronze Age sea trade in the eastern Mediterranean (Snape 2000). These vessels indicate that Zawiyet Umm el-Rakham was another point on the maritime trade circuit that included the Aegean, the Levant and Cyprus. The Ramesside fortress would then have come into existence not only to defend against the Libyans, but also to facilitate foreign trade. On present evidence, such Egyptian coastal installations did not yet exist in the eighteenth Dynasty. Perhaps only the combination of the rising Libyan threat and the maritime trade made the construction of the 'Western Chain' worthwhile. The mid-14th century BC (late eighteenth Dynasty) could have seen the first increase in Meshwesh/Libu activity in the Marmarican region, precipitating the first clashes with the sea traders; this is apparently illustrated by the Amarna papyrus mentioned above, where men with Egyptian and Mycenaean military gear appear in conflict with men in Libyan costume (Parkinson and Schofield 1993; Schofield and Parkinson 1994)." Oxford handbook of egyptology: "However, there are hints of more peaceful encounters with Libyans. Even in the First Dynasty there are references to Libyan oil. In the second jubilee of Amenhotep III, fat bulls of the Meshwesh were listed among provisions sent to the palace at Malkata. While Meshwesh here probably refers to a breed of bull, rather than the tribe itself, that in itself suggests antecedent trade relations.40 Libyans are shown bringing ostrich eggs to the Amarna court and as bodyguards to Akhenaten. 41

However, such peaceful relations as there might have been were swamped by accounts of a genuine rise in attacks in the Nineteenth Dynasty, and the image of Libyans changed from defeated other to predatory land-hungry settlers, albeit subsumed under the traditional topos of Libyan defeat and subjection. References to abject Tjehenu and Tjemehu took a back seat to accounts of incursions led by the Meshwesh and the Libyans that were given particular prominence on public monuments, both in Thebes and the Delta. Seti I pre-sented Libyans to the temple of Amun in Karnak and claimed to have defeated the Tjehenu, but this clearly did little to halt the threat long-term, since Rameses II was forced to estab-lish a chain of fortresses along the western edge of the desert and along the coast as far as Zawiyet Umm el-Rakham in order to check their advance.42 A statue from the fortress at el-Alamein celebrates the capture of a chief of the Libu, indicating the eastward spread of this group in to what was probably traditionally Tjehenu territory. At Zawiyet Umm el-Rakham, Tjemehu were put to work in the fields around the garrison, another unexpected occurrence in Tjehenu territory" also oric bates: "168

THE EASTERN LIBYANS

two enclosures. The walls, which are ruinous, still stand in places as high as 4 m., and are built of small rudely-shaped stones, laid in courses.

The district in which this fort now stands is one which received slight Roman influence, and is near the site first occupied by the Theran colonists on the Libyan main-land. The plan of the structure, however, leads to the conclusion that one is here confronted with a Libyan building.

The habitations of the Eastern Libyans were anciently, as to-day, caves, permanent houses, or movable shelters. In Cyrenaica are a number of inhabited caverns among the hills of Gebel el-Ahdar, and in the Gebel Gharyan are whole troglodytic com-munities dwelling in artificial caverns.

The bulk of the Eastern Libyans, however, being semi-nomadic, did not live in stable dwellings, but in tents or booths. The Libyan invaders of Egypt in the XIXth Dynasty had tents of leather, like those still used in Fezzan. That, at a period much later, tents continued to be used, as at the present day, among the Arabs of Tripolitana and western Egypt, is attested by the descriptive term Σκηνίται applied by Ptolemy to certain of the East Libyans of his time." i just copy and put it here to simplify easier. it has been in Ancient Libya for 3 years. R Prazeres Libyanmilitaryman (talk) 03:46, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

What is this? It looks like you copy-pasted a bunch of things, but you haven't explained what you're talking about. R Prazeres (talk) 15:41, 16 August 2026 (UTC)