Talk:Legislative Assembly of Ontario

Split proposal

Having read the Discussion from 2014. I propose Legislature of Ontario be split off from this article. 2 potential issues I can cover. 1. It's officially called the Legislature of Ontario not the Parliament of Ontario, the resolution that changed the title to M.P.P even still uses the term "Legislature of Ontario" (text is below), it never switched, the use of "Parliament of Ontario" is an informal practice. 2. Splitting the House from the legislature is consistent with other Canadian Provinces, examples include General Assembly of Prince Edward Island, General Assembly of Nova Scotia, Quebec Legislature, Alberta Legislature, ect.

On motion of Mr. Hunter, seconded by Mr. Miller,

Resolved, That in all matters of address, titular distinction, formal correspondence, official proceedings and all similar matters having to do with and coming under the jurisdiction of the Legislature of Ontario, the members of the Legislative Assembly shall be entitled to the designation "Member of Provincial Parliament" and its abbreviation "M.P.P."

WanukeX (talk) 00:10, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

TBH, I never fully understood why we have such articles (General Assembly of Prince Edward Island and Legislative Assembly of Prince Edward Island for examples), as they have basically the 'same' info. If the provinces still had bicameral legislatures? then it would make sense, for we'd then have three articles per province. An article for the upper house, the lower house & both houses combined. GoodDay (talk) 08:42, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

Makes no sense having two separate and overlapping articles for a unicameral assembly, the better option is to clearly define the terminology early on. Just about as dumb is having separate articles for a “premier of X” and “List of premiers of X” rather than combining the two. Ricjac (talk) 08:04, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Legally, you're right that the Legislature and the Assembly are different entities. That's why they have separate entries on a project like Wikidata. But I doubt we would have enough to say about the Legislature to justify an entire article. That page would always be just a definition and a list. And it so happens that's what we see in pages like General Assembly of Prince Edward Island. So maybe a better solution would be to match PEI's format and rename List of Ontario Legislative Assemblies to "Legislature of Ontario" and add an infobox to that page? —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 22:50, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Oppose: Having actually worked at the Assembly for many years, although they are de facto independent entities (in most cases), they are effectively the same from an operational standpoint and as others have said, I doubt we have enough content to justify a split.Spilia4 (talk) 17:03, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Oppose 2022. This is splitting hairs and looking for problems where none exist. The name Legislative Assembly is clearly stated in the Constitution Act. Until that is amended or the Legislative Assembly renames itself as the Quebec National Assembly did, LEAVE IT ALONE. BrentS (talk) 01:41, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

"The name Legislative Assembly is clearly stated in the Constitution Act", look about 10 words earlier in Section 69 and you'll spot it the "Legislature of Ontario" being referred to separately from the "Legislative Assembly of Ontario".

69 There shall be a Legislature for Ontario consisting of the Lieutenant Governor and of One House, styled the Legislative Assembly of Ontario." WanukeX (talk) 14:25, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Support the proposal by @WanukeX:. The monarch & lieutenant governor are a part of the "Parliament of Ontario", but are not a part of the "Legislative Assembly of Ontario". There is a difference here, as in the other provinces. The new page should be called Parliament of Ontario. -- GoodDay (talk) 02:13, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Agree in Part, but the new page should be Legislature of Ontario, not Parliament, that's the language used in section 69 of the Constitution Act 1867 "There shall be a Legislature for Ontario", , and as I wrote in my initial comment in 2021 even the motion that designated the title "Member of Provincial Parliament" continued to call it "Legislature" not "Parliament". WanukeX (talk) 14:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Not Exactly

The article would have you believe that we didn't have any form of government in Canada prior to confederation. But we had a system of self government prior to the formation of the Dominion of Canada. Call it Upper Canada and Lower Canada or Canada West and Canada East, but the colonies had governments prior to 1867 and the distinctions between the federal and provincial governments. You would have us believe that the governors appointed by the monarch did all of the governing and nothing else existed. 72.142.92.204 (talk) 01:21, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Senate

The provincial legislatures use to have an upper chamber or a senate and not just the house members. It lasted for about ten years. 72.142.92.204 (talk) 01:27, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Ontario never had an upper house. Has always been unicameral. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 02:36, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

That is not true. 2605:8D80:6E2:155A:BE38:745E:C7AA:EA9A (talk) 03:35, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

See s. 69 of the Constitution Act, 1867:

69 There shall be a Legislature for Ontario consisting of the Lieutenant Governor and of One House, styled the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 03:40, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

That is the problem with this forum. Once an inaccuracy is accepted as gospel it becomes far too difficult to correct. Ontario had a senate. It was abolished in 1892. Source Canadian Parliamentary Review. The honourable Brad Wall. TVO has also refetenced the provincial senate on The Agenda With Steve Paikin. 2605:8D80:6E2:155A:BE38:745E:C7AA:EA9A (talk) 04:01, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Pardon me, 1876. 2605:8D80:6E2:155A:BE38:745E:C7AA:EA9A (talk) 04:07, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Please provide cites. I've given you the cite to the Constitution Act, 1867, which states that Ontario's legislature has consisted of the Lt Gov and the Legislative Assembly since Ontario was created in 1867. Are you suggesting that the Constitution Act, 1867, is inaccurate? What article of the Canadian Parliamentary Review are you referring to? What statute abolished the Ontario senate in 1892 1876? Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 04:09, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

So you are saying you made an inference based on a poor understanding of the subject and wrote the erroneous section? 2605:8D80:6E2:155A:BE38:745E:C7AA:EA9A (talk) 04:12, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

No, I am saying that the Constitution Act, 1867 does not mention any upper house for Ontario, and says that the Legislature consists of the Lt Governor and the Legislative Assembly. If you disagree with that, the onus is on you to provide cites to Wikipedia:Reliable sources to the contrary. If that shows there was an upper house at some point, then the article should be corrected. Absent such a citation, contradicting the Constitution Act, 1867, then the article should not mention any upper house. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 04:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Your unfamiarity with the subject means that the inaccuracy remains. Where is the citation you use to support that your assertion? You appear incorrect that it came in the act in 1867 from the beginning of the country. At best it was sourced from a cite that refetences a history of acts starting in 1867 continuing on to present day.

Correcting the error is more burdensome that creating the error. 72.139.197.210 (talk) 04:29, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Bad articles get written by stubborn people. 72.139.197.210 (talk) 04:30, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

I’ve given you the link to the Constitution Act, 1867, which is the foundation of the Constitution of Canada. That Act is published by the federal Department of Justice. That’s a reliable source. So far, you’ve not provided any sources that contradict it. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 04:35, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

So provide cites in support of your position. That’s how Wikipedia works: reliable sources. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 04:37, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

WP:Bold, make the changes you think are needed to correct the article and as @Mr Serjeant Buzfuz said back those changes up with reliable sources. WanukeX (talk) 20:05, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

Maybe you're thinking of the pre confederation Legislative Council of Upper Canada (Abolished in 1841 when upper and lower canada were merged) or the Legislative Council of the Province of Canada after the merger but pre confederation. There were provincial upper chambers post confederation, such as the Legislative Council of Quebec (Abolished in 1968) and the Legislative Council of Nova Scotia (abolished in 1928). But since Confederation in 1867, Ontario has not had an upper chamber and has always been unicameral.

I see that some people have posted the Constitution Act, 1867, worth noting that the version on the Justice GC Website is as amended, if you want to go straight to the horses mouth on what it said at confederation, Section 69 of the British North America Act 1867 (as it was called until amended in 1982) on the UK Parliament website "There shall be a Legislature for Ontario, consisting of the Lieutenant Governor and of one House, styled the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.", the exact same wording it still has today. As far as I can tell there was not and never has been a "Senate of Ontario", but as always, WP:BOLD, if you have the sourcing to back it up by all means. WanukeX (talk) 19:49, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I found the referenced article by Brad Wall, , "In 1876, the same year, the province of Ontario also abolished its senate.", that is the only mention of the "Ontario Senate in the article.

Looking through ontario bills and statutes from 1867-1876 to see if maybe the supposed senate gets a mention in the enacting clause of bills, or there are any Ontario Statutes from that time that Mention a Senate, nope, still "Therefore Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Legislative Assembly of the Province of Ontario, enacts as follows:" same as today. As well, the only mentions of "Senate" in ontario Legislation from that period are either talking about University/College Senates, example: An Act respecting the University of Toronto or talking about the Federal Senate, example: An Act respecting disqualifications for Members of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. . WanukeX (talk) 20:33, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for this. With all due respect to Premier Wall, I think section 69 of the Constitution Act, 1867 is the governing source.

By the way, I disagree with the suggestion of going to the BNA Act in the British database. As the name suggests, that is the BNA Act, it's not the Constitution Act. There have been amendments to the Constitution Act that are not reflected in the BNA Act. The British Act is of historical interest only, in my opinion. Plus, the DoJ consolidation is pretty thorough in marking changes. It is a consolidation, but a good one. The lack of any footnote to s. 69 is an indication that there has not been any amendment to it since it was enacted. (Unlike the very next section, s. 70, which is footnoted to indicate a change since 1867.) Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 21:30, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

Agreed the DOG consolidation is good, the purposes of the two are different, the DOG version is the act as amended, the UK Parl oone is the act as originally came into force in 1867, I brought up the British Act to note that "As originally enacted no mention of an upper house" which is also reflected in no amendments listed on the "as amended" DOJ version.

s. 69 is generally a good source, but it's not a be all end all source, the provincial legislatures from 1867-1982 using s. 92(1) of the British North America Act, 1867 and since 1982 using s. 45 of the Constitution Act, 1982, can amend their provincial constitutions by ordinary statute, as Quebec did in abolishing their Legislative Council in 1968, there are a large amount of mentions of it in sections 71-80 despite it no longer existing, since the abolition was done by ordinary statute under 92(1) and never actually amended the 1867 Act.

That's I was digging through ordinary ontario statutes from that 1867-1876 period, if there was a Provincial Senate, it would have been mentioned in things like enacting clauses on bills, or in ordinary provincial statutes establishing or abolishing it. Not a mention anywhere I could find. WanukeX (talk) 15:44, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of Ontario Legislative Assemblies which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 23:16, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

SVG coat of arms

I made an updated SVG of the Assembly's coat of arms, in the style of other such coats of arms, and a style that is similar to the provincial arms. I know it doesn't completely match the official version, but I think it could be a higher quality alternative to the current PNG. Given the importance of the Assembly, I understand if it is the opinion of the community to maintain the current PNG in the infobox. For the time being, I included my SVG as a secondary image within the article, without changing the infobox, in accordance with to comment in the infobox not to change it.

ConfidentBobcat (talk) 01:15, 13 January 2026 (UTC)