Talk:Israel Frey/Archive 2
Latest comment: 8 months ago by Aquillion in topic Revert
 | This is an archive of past discussions about Israel Frey. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
| Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Revert
Hi @Iljhgtn,
As you already know from our previous discussions on the Talk page, I disagree with the changes you have just restored to the article.
If you have found new evidence/arguments to support these changes, please share. Otherwise, these changes should not be made. Rainsage (talk) 17:26, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- All of them? I suspected you might disagree with some, however there were a number of changes made. Please only revert those you think we need to discuss here on the TP. Thank you@Rainsage. Iljhgtn (talk) 17:28, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- I just checked. Please self revert. As several changes were stylistic in nature only and directly follow P&G where there can be literally no difference of opinion. I know you might find it to be more work to do this, but it is essential that you do not revert simply in the manner that is easiest, but only to support what you feel is following the sources. For example, it does not follow policy to link to Gaza war 3-4 times in one section, and the capitalization of "war" should not be done. Iljhgtn (talk) 17:31, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- You re-did very large changes that you knew I opposed without re-opening our discussion. If you want to re do the stylistic ones then feel free. Rainsage (talk) 17:32, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- There were several. And which do you oppose? Again, please self-revert and then make whatever changes you specifically see fit. That was just one example of many that I did not feel you would take any issue with, and the others that I felt you might not love, I still think are supported by the sources and we can continue to discuss that here. Iljhgtn (talk) 17:36, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- This was not "very large" at all. Iljhgtn (talk) 17:36, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- You shouldn't have made so many changes that you knew would be controversial. These are the changes I oppose. Feel free to restore the other stylistic changes you made:
- 1) Frey is typically described as a journalist, not an activist
- 2) The incident where his home was attacked after he prayed for Palestinian children was covered in many sources and should be in the lede
- 3) You changed that Frey believes in equality to Frey criticizes the Israeli government
- 4) You removed the designation of Ben-Gvir as right wing
- 5) You removed the phrase "fighting their oppressor" from the description his March 2025 tweet Rainsage (talk) 17:44, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- 3 is WP:OR, need to further evaluate all of the rest too, but also no, you need to revert only issues you find to be still open for discussion. It is not acceptable to just revert everything because it is easier. Iljhgtn (talk) 17:48, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- It is not acceptable to make changes against consensus. Please respond to all 5 issues. Rainsage (talk) 17:52, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- I think we could benefit from a third opinion, we could use WP:3O, but still, the first step should be a revert, and then please feel free to change back any and all parts that you see fit. That is the core of WP:BRD. By the way, I've used WP:3O plenty of times in cases such as this and I think it is a really useful tool on Wikipedia that is underutilized. Iljhgtn (talk) 18:00, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- There are 5 different issues. I don't think that's well-suited for 3O. Rainsage (talk) 18:06, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- Thank you for the correction on the edits that at least we agree on. Iljhgtn (talk) 18:16, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
- There are 5 different issues. I don't think that's well-suited for 3O. Rainsage (talk) 18:06, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- I think we could benefit from a third opinion, we could use WP:3O, but still, the first step should be a revert, and then please feel free to change back any and all parts that you see fit. That is the core of WP:BRD. By the way, I've used WP:3O plenty of times in cases such as this and I think it is a really useful tool on Wikipedia that is underutilized. Iljhgtn (talk) 18:00, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- It is not acceptable to make changes against consensus. Please respond to all 5 issues. Rainsage (talk) 17:52, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- 3 is WP:OR, need to further evaluate all of the rest too, but also no, you need to revert only issues you find to be still open for discussion. It is not acceptable to just revert everything because it is easier. Iljhgtn (talk) 17:48, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- There were several. And which do you oppose? Again, please self-revert and then make whatever changes you specifically see fit. That was just one example of many that I did not feel you would take any issue with, and the others that I felt you might not love, I still think are supported by the sources and we can continue to discuss that here. Iljhgtn (talk) 17:36, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- You re-did very large changes that you knew I opposed without re-opening our discussion. If you want to re do the stylistic ones then feel free. Rainsage (talk) 17:32, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- I just checked. Please self revert. As several changes were stylistic in nature only and directly follow P&G where there can be literally no difference of opinion. I know you might find it to be more work to do this, but it is essential that you do not revert simply in the manner that is easiest, but only to support what you feel is following the sources. For example, it does not follow policy to link to Gaza war 3-4 times in one section, and the capitalization of "war" should not be done. Iljhgtn (talk) 17:31, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
- The Times of Israel is a WP:BIASED source when it comes to the Israel-Palestinian conflict; it cannot be used as the sole source for a BLP sensitive statement in the lead of an article without attribution. We should look for sources more distant from the conflict instead and go by what they say. --Aquillion (talk) 16:05, 22 November 2025 (UTC)