Talk:Hoteps

Neutrality

@WikiDan61, Serols, Doingmybes, AFreshStart, and EvergreenFir: Discuss everything about the neutrality of the article here. 2603:7000:1F00:6B91:80D6:BDD3:3C8:2D93 (talk) 21:32, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

I added the neutrality tag after a discussion with Doingmybes at my user talk page subsequent to Doingmybes' deletion of the "Ideology" section altogether. Having reviewed the sources, I would say that they all skew on the liberal side, and that the perceptions described might not be universal. Certainly, anyone who self-identifies as a "Hotep" would likely disagree with the characterization. I'd like to see if there are other, more centrist views on the matter, or even views from more conservative media that might either reinforce or contradict these perspectives. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 11:42, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Well, conservative media is also very critical of "Hoteps" mainly because they're on the other side of the spectrum. In fact Hoteps aren't even a group, it's an insult directed at black people who try to suggest all black people don't look like Tyrone, or that the Egyptians *could* be black (Or *could have* had black people in it) because not all black people are necessarily dark skinned, which is the same opinion that liberal sources have. The same people who believe the ancient Greeks were white despite having more DNA relation to Persians (A non-white group) than Europeans simply because Greek is in Europe, which is considered a horrible arguement when used by those who believe the Egyptians were black. Right wing sources are often just as hypocritical if not more so than left wing sources But enough about my personal opinion, I'm trying to say I don't think you'll find any centrist views from conservatives. 2603:7000:1F00:6B91:D4B7:BC60:6C78:44F2 (talk) 15:57, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

"Hoteps" as described on this Wikipage is a racial slur. The slur is often used to discredit or demonize the research or theories of African American Afrocentric scholars. Requesting page deletion. @Rsk4600 @Euryalus WP:NONAZIS

https://sacredsexualities.org/2018/02/26/7-reasons-not-to-call-someone-a-hotep/

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stop-using-hotep-as-an-insult_b_5a4bad9ee4b0d86c803c799c Sociology In Action (talk) 05:51, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

@Rsk4600 please review this page Sociology In Action (talk) 05:52, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not delete racial slurs, it documents them. List of ethnic slurs. Editor2020 (talk) 03:12, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

@ Sociology In Action the two sources you have provided are very imperfect, with the second one probably not satisfying WP:RS. The huffpost article is an opinion piece dealing with specifics - IP, please read WP:NOTAFORUM and take note of how the article on the Ancient Egyptian Race Controversy deals with this issue.--Trans-Neptunian object (HK is Chinese) (talk) 21:16, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

I see editing that clearly demonstrates a NPOV violation and an antagonistical non-encyclopedic tone in addressing the subject. It is so glaring that I can tell the person doing the editing is not a fan. Neither am I, but the idea of NPOV means fan or not, follow the rules Inayity (talk) 17:22, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

@Inayity, your comment can only be useful if you specify what you're referring to rather than making vague allusions. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 01:57, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

U will discuss on talk page as opposed to a simplistic opinion about my edits. Every edit is explained before doing it. You have done no such thing. The talk page not the revert is the solution. I don't need your opinion on what is good or bad. you can discuss it before making further changes as you have no motivation for doing so. --Inayity (talk) 08:27, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Hoteps fight pseudohistory with pseudohistory

In my own life experience, Hoteps promote pseudohistory because they don't like the pseudohistory promoted by white supremacists (Such as the ancient aryans theory, or the equally off theory that the Ancient Egyptians were white). I feel like that should be included in the article, I don't have a source but anyone hoping to expand the article could help. 24.161.36.116 (talk) 02:27, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

The sociological reasons behind modern black supremacist movements, such as slavery/loss of culture/racism, are better dealt with in more specific articles. Ditto explaining the varying levels of motivation one has behind labelling someone a "hotep". Honestly this article seems to be WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS right now. --Trans-Neptunian object (HK is Chinese) (talk) 21:19, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm sorry, Black supremacy? Hoteps amount to old, backwards black elders and misogynists at worst.

I do agree with your last point though, this article appears to have been created by a right wing troll who has a habit of making bad faith edits in articles revolving around black people and civil rights movements. Seems he's trying to "Expose" a perceived example of "Black Supremacy" 2603:8080:F600:2340:EDB1:495F:D4EB:8C6F (talk) 02:38, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

IMPROVEMENTS

This page can be edited by anyone. I am familiar with this topic. The page is a mess in the inconsistent usages of terms and the structure. The sources are also in passing and do not exactly meet the quality standard. The Grio the Root have a beef with Hoteps. Makes no difference if they are right or wrong as NPOV stands. The talk page is for discussions the revert is for war. I have spent 1 hr cleaning up this mess and restructuring the page. Even my references have been destroyed in a revert. Inayity (talk) 08:34, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

on that note, In 2017, The Root defined hoteps as "people who have overdosed on 'Pan-Afrikan doesnt belong in the start.Hausa warrior (talk) 08:57, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Total Off topic

In the 1930s, hotep ideology originated in the Islam-inspired teachings of Wallace Fard Muhammad, a door-to-door salesman and founder of the American black nationalist organization Nation of Islam. Claiming he was the incarnation of Noble Drew Ali, Muhammad "borrowed from traditional Islamic behavioral practices" to create "a myth designed especially to appeal to African Americans". Prominent members included Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammad. What is all of this for? It isnt even true, what is this page about NOI or Hotep? So why is this content in this page? Yet my changes are not improvements? When we check the source it doesnt say this. So it is WP:OR WHO is Hubert Adjei-Kontoh? So what authority does he have on the origins of Hotep? He is nobody. Discuss. Inayity (talk) 08:38, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Tagged article probably a better tag could be used requesing better sources than teh Grio and Hubert somebody as experts.Hausa warrior (talk) 09:37, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Over use of singlesource of a STUDENT

This is something I just picked up per the "improvements" Sapien is used a total of TWELEVE TIMES in a short article. And things do not improve because Meranda Lovett is a nobody not even qualified to speak, has one article to her name. [PhD Student, Ancient Greek Art and Archaeology, Art History and Archaeology] She is a student. It is her op end. Miranda Lovett is a first-year PhD student studying ancient Greek art and archaeology with Dr. Emily Egan Hausa warrior (talk) 09:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Update, I have attempted to get some opinions on reliable sources noticeboard as people with more experience can weigh in on this issue. She should not be used as she has no qualification to be cited 12 times. She is not an antropologist either. No academic entries, no peer reviews nada. Why is she here especially as a negative? Reading the article why are her numerous positive statements not included? --Hausa warrior (talk) 10:06, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

What is to be done? Should statements that use her as the only source be scrapped from the article? — Your local Sink Cat (The Sink). 22:00, 15 November 2025 (UTC)

Ideology, serious issues

The intro of this section is discussing Afrocentrics not Hoteps. Not one source uses the word Hotep. Mary article on Athena is in reference to Afrocentricity and Molefi Asante's assertions NOT to Hotep. The relationship between the Hotep and the Afrocentric is not made, it is disputed by Afrocentrics. One of their more recognizable beliefs uses modern American racial and ethnic constructs to define the civilization of ancient Egypt, asserting that it was racially homogeneous and uniformly made up of a single ethnic group of Black people. This belief stands at odds with the mainstream and scholarly understanding (using Wiki as a voice condmening them) that ancient Egypt was an extremely diverse civilization consisting of people of various skin tones and backgrounds this is an offtopic per above complaint. It is also not a discussion, where a voice is added to the encylcopedic tone which is used to correct the Hoteps. Hausa warrior (talk) 10:14, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

USE TALK PAGE

Avoid reverting on an opinion "black is fine" (sure African American is even better hence the link is called African American not black American) or deleting tags with "its okay" (above chat says there could be a problem with this student lady) . This is turning into Wp:DISRUPT it is not how Wikipedia works or gains consensus. I think looking at the history I am seeing a pattern of revert. This ia Wikipedia article all editing follow the same rules. What is NOT helping is I am very familar with this topic and hotep/Afrocentric. And understand the culture and the terminologies and how and why they apply, when and where. It is not if something is popular to someone outside. WP:TALK Hausa warrior (talk) 08:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Ankh

Please stop edit warring over the Ankh symbol. Instead please try to work out the best symbol to use on this article.

First up, the fact that the ancient Egyptians had the Ankh first is completely irrelevant. Having the symbol here isn't removing it from any articles about ancient Egypt. It can be on both, if it is valid on both.

So, is the ankh really a defining symbol for the Hoteps? The current source is unclear. It mentions the "ankh right" but doesn't explain the significance of the ankh part. I did a quick Google and it seems that they do use it but is it really their primary symbol? I can't tell. If not, what is? If the Ankh really is their most commonly used and most recognised symbol then, even if it is not official, we can use it on the page. Maybe it doesn't have to be so large though. DanielRigal (talk) 00:48, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

@DanielRigal, I do want to have this discussion with you, but let's please make sure it's done in a civil manner. Firstly, you should have addressed me in your comment, since it's obviously directed at me. Second, let's avoid accusations of edit warring and try to work this out in a constructive fashion instead.

Does the article need a symbol? Why?

If hoteps use the ankh as part of their symbolism, we can include it within the article, but I don't think it should be right in the infobox, as if it's defining or representative. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 02:09, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

I dont think people understand Hoteps dont have a "symbol" they use many symbols such as the Ankh but they certainly do not run around calling themselves Hoteps! It is not a group! It is a label for a type of Afrocentric culture-- full stop! No hotep has said "I am a Hotep." it is an insult to them. Ppl are clearly not informed about the topic they edit. I have no time for the topic so honestly, just dont care. But it still frustrates me to see such low low-quality articles edited by people clearly unfamiliar with the topic. Taking def from memes. --Inayity (talk) 05:42, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

This article needs an expert

It is a horrible mess. Clearly who is writing it lacks proper knowledge. So NOI created the Hotep? That is why in origins it speak NOTHING of Afrocentric like Dr. Ben, and Clarke but about Malcolm X. Why is Malcolm X mentioned? How is Hotep Pan-African? Because 2 "further reading" are called Pan-African journal. So that makes it Pan-African? But leave it as it is. Inayity (talk) 05:39, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

Read proper sources: Expert Needed

Despite what is written here [https://theoutline.com/post/1412/what-hotep-means] the article seems to fail to understand the topic. Asante clearly discusses the term as a negative, most people call Hoteps do not call themselves Hotept. It is not a GROUP! Like NOI or a religion or anything like that. It doesnt have IDEOLOGY, it has a personality. It is a label for a persona within Afrocentric circles. But it is not Afrocentrism as people do not call Asante a Hoteps . But Afrocentric are the ones that say Hoteps when they meet each other. But the article talks about the Nation of Islam as part of the origins. I know this topic but refuse to waste time on it. When I was a heavy user, many people were qualified to edit this article. But they all left. Inayity (talk) 08:35, 23 August 2025 (UTC)