Talk:Guidonian hand

Deletion

Reverted back to original version. The article should no longer be a candidate for deletion. Dbtfz 06:56, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Another Guidonian hand

Another Guidonian hand: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Hand_of_Guido.jpg What do you think about adding it to the article? Danmichaelo (talk) 17:01, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

What is a hexachord??

This article would be much more approachable if it explained what is meant by "hexachord" up where that term is first used. That isn't a common term, and the idea that you're supposed to read the Wikipedia page on "hexachord" to understand what is meant is not really reasonable.

For instance, I go to that page and read "In music, a hexachord (also hexachordon) is a collection of six pitch classes[2] including six-note segments of a scale or tone row." A collection of six pitch classes? How do you "collect" pitch classes, and what is a "pitch class" anyway? Then I read that it was the term for the interval of a sixth, which I suppose is a different use of the term.

Is a "hexachord" like calling the pentatonic scale a "pentachord"? If it's the notes of the "hexatonic scale," that isn't well known either (I see from that article that a hexatonic scale can be the whole tone scale or a number of other permutations), but I think that would be clearer if explained.

Back to this article, I read "The Guidonian hand is closely linked with Guido's new ideas about how to learn music, including the use of hexachords, and the first western known use of solfege." Does this mean you use the hand to learn the interval of a sixth? No, I think it means something else. But I'm left annoyed that I keep encountering this word "hexachord," as if I'm supposed to know what that means.

I realize the article has no author in particular, so apologies for my frustration. 67.168.11.194 (talk) 02:40, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Why does the hand appear to have 7 notes, not 6?

I see on the hand it goes through g, a, b, c, d, e, f and back to g. Is that a modern version? As noted above, I may not understand what's meant by "hexachord." 67.168.11.194 (talk) 02:53, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Also, if I understand correctly that this was originally for a hexatonic scale, are we to conclude that that is the scale that was used in Guido's music? Did the seven note modern Western major scale come later? 67.168.11.194 (talk) 02:57, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Hard and Soft?

Why is one hexachord called hard and the other soft. Since all are ut-sol with the same intervals between them. The hexachords durum and molle would not be inherently harder or softer than the natural.

So I looked into it and found a dutch master thesis by Peter van der Zwaag. Here I translate page 11: "After Guido van Arezzo, the solmization pattern developed into overlapping hexachords. The hexachord could start at three places: On C, F and G. All three hexachords had the same solmization: ut-re-mi-fa-sol-la. The hexachord on G had the B that was called 'b quadratum' (square b). The hexachord on F had the B that was called 'b rotundum' (round b). From these signs the later symbols ♮, ♯ and ♭ developed. The 'b quadratum' was concidered hard and the 'b rotundum' soft. This is why the hexachords on G and F were called hard (durum) and soft (molle) respectively. The hexachord on C was known as 'natural' (naturale)."

It seems the hard and soft are derived from the signs to identify their respective b (square and circle) and not because the hexachords are different musically. What do other people think?

https://petervdzwaag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Peter-van-der-Zwaag-Masteronderzoek-Causa-necessitatis-en-causa-pulchritudinis.pdf

All the latin adjectives:

• https://www.latin-is-simple.com/en/vocabulary/adjective/6171/ (naturalis)
• https://www.latin-is-simple.com/en/vocabulary/adjective/130/ (durus)
• https://www.latin-is-simple.com/en/vocabulary/adjective/6050/ (mollis)
• https://www.latin-is-simple.com/en/vocabulary/adjective/7248/ (quadratus)
• https://www.latin-is-simple.com/en/vocabulary/adjective/7471/ (rotundus)

Rharkes (talk) 20:10, 5 September 2025 (UTC)