Talk:Francization of Brussels

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (center, color, defense, realize, traveled) and some terms may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

This article relates to Brussels, and should follow the Brussels naming conventions.

Francization of Brussels received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

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There is a request, submitted by Tony419c (talk), for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia.
The rationale behind the request is: This is an important article, specialized both in French and Dutch Wikipedia. This English counterpart is as good as French and Dutch one, and the texts of this article is comparatively static. So this article is extremely worth recording. I am not a native English speaker, so wish an volunteer recording this page into an Spoken Wikipedia Article. Thanks! Before starting the task, please check here.

Flemish point of view

Latest comment: 5 years ago12 comments6 people in discussion

This "Frenchification of Brussels" article reflects solely the point of view of the flemings (The topic itself and the problematic way it is presented). Though the references at the end of the article comprises some french contributions, the content, the figures, the way they are analyzed express only the point of view of flemish associations or organizations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guy (talk) 19:20, 17 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

What is problematic about it? Anything specific? And all points of view are presented. Did you see the FDF part, for example? Oreo Priest ^talk 16:04, 18 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

This article solely expresses the point of view of the flemings in Brussels. The topic, the distorsion of the figures, the choice of the facts and the way they are interpreted are part of the usual propaganda of the flemish activists. [From an IP user]

You still haven't said anything specific. Would you care to elaborate? And I think not, the article was translated into French and was recognized as being fair. Oreo Priest ^talk 18:05, 20 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Well I believe it is always possible to improve this article with respect to NPOV but you need to tell exactly which sentences are biased, how to modify them and, which references support your views. Vb (talk) 06:42, 21 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

The fact that most of the intervention come from Oreo Priest who makes notes about the NVA which is the main nationalist party in Belgian has a feeling this article is really biaised and oriented. It is a shame that such a good instrument as wikipedia is used to spread nationalist motives. Krakkobe (talk) 15:28, 5 October 2010 (UTC)Reply

Huh???? I don't even know what you're talking about. I'm not even Belgian and neither French nor Dutch is my first language. I don't really think it's fair or makes sense to claim I'm biased, and especially not nationalist. Oreo Priest ^talk 18:19, 5 October 2010 (UTC)Reply

For me it doesn't matter what you claim as it is not possible to check nationality or all the informations you put and actually it is not that important. What I can see is that you make so many contributions about Belgium and specially about some very specific things like the government or the communauty of Flanders that is seems pretty obvious that you must demonstrate a very good knowledge of Dutch and French to translate such informations. If you don't I would find very harmful that you relay the first article in Dutch because of the oriented references. Anyway you don't convince me with your arguments of impartiality and it would be a good thing to add a banner for partial neutrality. Good day Krakkobe (talk) 07:46, 6 October 2010 (UTC)Reply

Krakkobe's intervention is, apart from being offensive and rude, also useless without pointing out the sections of disagreement. --Hooiwind (talk) 20:24, 7 October 2010 (UTC)Reply

I may be aggressive but that is a from a fair point of view because this article is more of a demonstration that Brussels is a flemish city that has been spoiled from its language than what is is really : a city that long has been in the cultural area of latin and germanic influences. Even in your references such as "Helder De Schutter; Ann Mares, Els Witte (ed.) (2001). "Taalpolitiek en multiculturalisme in het Brussels Nederlandstalig onderwijs", it is clearly said that the local Brussels dialect was a pure mix of French and Dutch. I give you the definition of immigration "To enter and settle in a country to which one is not native", the paragraph "French-speaking immigration" is insultive because you are not an immigrant in your own country : this is insulting for both the wallons and the flemish people who came to live in Brussels. And finally Oreao Priest erased my remarks about the roman settlement in Schaerbeek though he left strangelly my reference I added in the article as if it personnaly indisposed him that most of the cities in Belgium have also a latin part in them wether it is Brussels, Tongeren or Tournai. What to do next, detroy manually the roman ruins, latin or French antic pergaments to be sure that no one contest the pure germanic origin of Brussels? This is sick. Anyway, this is getting close to a Godwin point and there is no point of making arguments with people who have made their mind already. good day. Krakkobe (talk) 22:15, 9 October 2010 (UTC)Reply

What edit might that be? I can't find it in the history. As for the Walloon immigrants, that's a fair point, and I've changed it to migrants. The section should probably stay titled "immigration" because that's a more natural/normal word, and it starts by talking about actual foreigners. I don't think we're anywhere near the Godwin point, but if you're speaking for yourself, then I can't tell. Oreo Priest ^talk 08:55, 10 October 2010 (UTC)Reply

The edit was made by Hooiwind, he know himself perfectly. The qualification migrant-immigrant is very sensitively used in the Flemish media who stigmatise the french speakers living in the surroundind of Brussels giving them the names of immigrants, thank you for adapting that. Anyway, a fair thing would be that this article represent the Flemish point of view about Brussels as the University of Laval made about the regions in Belgium giving a public tribune from all regions. Krakkobe (talk) 14:22, 11 October 2010 (UTC)Reply

In my opinion, the last sentence of the introduction lacks neutrality. First, francization is presented as "cultural imperialism". Is this factual? If so, I think the connection between the two notions must be made explicit. If not factual, this sentence needs to be removed or modified to highlight whose opinion it is. Secondly, "some monolingual French-speaking communities" are said to be "often imbued with a condescending attitude [...] towards Dutch". Again, is this factual? If so, references are needed. The use of the pronoun "some" is vague and needs to be replaced by a quantity. If not factual, this sentence needs to be removed or modified. Thedarkfly (talk) 09:24, 7 April 2021 (UTC) Given the lack of reaction, I will tag the sentences I find problematic. Thedarkfly (talk) 10:18, 3 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

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Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Flemish point of view

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