Talk:Fitton Cave

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 talk 00:00, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Fitton Cave is the second most biodiverse cave in Arkansas?

• Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260035476_Cave_fauna_of_the_Buffalo_National_River

• • ALT1: ... that there was once a stalagmite heist from the longest cave in Arkansas? Source: https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2020/sep/11/irreplaceable-formations-stolen-for-us-park-cave/
  • Reviewed:

Created by Kingsmasher678 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Kingsmasher678 (talk) 03:23, 29 January 2025 (UTC).

• Going to review ALT1: Hook verifies the heist, but not the length. No QPQ needed, article is new enough, mostly sourced, no copyvio, neutral, etc. I'd pass this, except the claim of being the longest cave in Arkansas is cited to cave-exploring.com which looks to be a self-published Wordpress source. Get rid of that source and if nothing else backs up the claim get rid of it in the article and the hook and you'd be good to go. Departure– (talk) 18:43, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
  • Departure–, that source is the ultimate source for this info. Most of the info was collected by Robert Gulden, who provided this service to the National Speleological Society. It's a reliable source of this type of information. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 04:20, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

• @Kingsmasher678: Is there consensus that Gulden's database (the one with a notice that explicitly states that locations of caves aren't disclosed) is a reliable source in the caves / natural resource / whatever the relevant Wikiproject is? Departure– (talk) 14:12, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

@Departure–:, I do not believe so, but that is largely because of the small nature of WP:CAVES. I can still source the fact that it is the longest, if you want a "better". In this ref https://legacy.caves.org/pub/journal/PDF/V68/v68n3%20Graening.pdf, the cave is stated to be 43999 feet long, which is 8.3 miles, comparred to Blanchard Springs Caverns, which we have as being 8.1 miles. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 15:09, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

• @Kingsmasher678: The only thing keeping me from supporting this is the use of that source. If you replace it in the article with the one you've brought up I'll pass this. Departure– (talk) 16:25, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

I sourced it to this instead, as it more accuratly reflects the reported length of the cave.

https://showcaves.com/english/usa/caves/Buffalo.html Kingsmasher678 (talk) 02:40, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

@Kingsmasher678: I'm still worried about the use of the cave in the article, especially without attribution. Can you at least attribute the claim? I also think the claim of 188th longest is a bit of improper synthesis from the source. Do we know if his database contains every single cave in the world to compare against? Departure– (talk) 16:06, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

@Departure–: The article says that it is the 188th longest known cave, based on the best resource available for this. I really don't know what to tell you, the entire point of the hook is that this is the longest cave in Arkansas! I have given 2 sources that say that, one of which is the standard for writing in this space. I really can't provide a source beyond the several I have given. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 17:41, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

I'm not asking for the claim to be removed, I'm asking it to be attributed. I'm fine with the source as I believe it to be reliable enough if attributed. From there, I'll be passing this. Departure– (talk) 17:43, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

I'm unfamiliar with that term in this context, could you explain it? I've already added the source to the article. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 17:47, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

As in for instance "The cave is the 14th longest in the world, according to XYZ". As there's an article for the expert in question, [[wikilink]] them. Departure– (talk) 17:56, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Done. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 18:01, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Alright then. We're good to go on ALT1. Departure– (talk) 18:02, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

"tremendous cultural importance"

I don't want to be rude, but is there really evidence here that the loss of some nice rocks is of "tremendous cultural importance" ?

I think it might be better to quantify the importance of this loss to the cave's ecosystem or to scientific study. ~Puella Mortua~ Signed from the grave. (séance me!) 20:55, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

I'm going to remove the coords unless they are sourced

Same as title. I see no sources online that can be considered remotely reliable.

Kingsmasher678 (talk) 17:42, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Hi Kingsmasher678: Is GeoPlatform.gov a reliable sourse? Hoof Hearted (talk) 12:35, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

Yes. This is an obfuscated location, but that's probably good for a sensitive site anyway.

Kingsmasher678 (talk) 00:52, 12 May 2025 (UTC)