Talk:Fidchell

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i dont know anything about this game but when drawing comparisons with chess the author makes a mistake describing the set up of a chess board, perhaps an expert or someone with more knowledge could help update this article —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edallen399 (talk • contribs)

Irish Chess?

This article says 'Fidchell' (in Irish; also called 'fidceall') and is not chess. Fair enough you think but then you go to the Irish wikipedia and see that fidceall ficheall is chess. SunCreator (talk) 03:57, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Now resolved by the helpful people on the Irish wikipedia. Ficheall is Chess, while Fidchell is Fidchell. SunCreator (talk) 21:43, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

No, I am afraid there is no difference between ficheall and fidchell, they are different spellings for the same word, which always means chess in Irish. Incidentally this game cannot be the same as the diagram because fidhchell was set up with an equal number of pieces on both sides, as you can see in a comment added to the end at: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/95220 .Scolairebocht (talk) 06:55, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Gwyddbwyll

Gwyddbwyll was the Welsh name for the game (and game board) known in Irish as Fidchell; this is attested in Bromwich's book, cited here. The modern Welsh name for chess is also gwyddbwyll, but the medieval references are clearly to the Celtic board game. As such it needs to be mentioned here.--Cúchullain ^t/c 19:46, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Equal number of pieces?

I live in Ireland and have been playing Fidchell (and Brandubh) for most of my life and have never played with anyone that used an equal number of pieces. I have heard of the rule but never actually seen it being used. The only way I can see it working is if the defender plays with a "Weaponless King" (the king can't take part in captures) and the king can be captured by only two men. I'd love to know from someone who has actually used an equal number of pieces to play, what the games were like and how you balanced the games. Titan Crow 92.39.189.50 (talk) 10:48, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

New articles on this topic

Recently, some new articles on this topic have been published:

• Hall, Mark A.; Forsyth, Katherine (2011): Roman rules? The introduction of board games to Britain and Ireland. In: Antiquity 85 (330), pp. 1325–1338. http://antiquity.ac.uk/ant/085/ant0851325.htm

• Niehues, Jan (2011): All the King's Men? On Celtic Board-Games and their Identification. In Franziska Bock, Dagmar Bronner, Dagmar Schlüter (Eds.): Allerlei Keltisches. Studien zu Ehren von Erich Poppe - Studies in honour of Erich Poppe. Berlin: curach bhán publications, pp. 45–60. http://www.curach-bhan.com/allerlei-keltisches-studien-zu-ehren-von-erich-poppe-p-3.html

Zemlod (talk) 14:43, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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Some more references

Most manuscript references are not very enlightening about the game itself and fidchell boards seem to be just another item than gets a formulaic description, being made of fantastic materials. The quote from Amra Colmcille in the article (& Reicne Fothaid Canainne below) also shows how literary form might outweigh factual value as the contrasting materials fit neatly into the requirements of deibhidhe meter: d’ór buidi (yellow gold) … d’ḟindruine (white bronze), i.e. buidi ‘rhymes’ with ruine but the compound word (white bronze) means the stress is on find, not the rhyme.

These probably don’t need to be in the article (except maybe Sanas Cormaic?), but they do give a literary context suggesting caution about treating these sources as purely factual.

Fithchill .i. fath‑ciall .i. fath ⁊ ciall occ a imbirt. no feith ⁊ ciall. no fuath-cell .i. fuath cille .i. is cethrachair cetumus ind fitchill ⁊ it dirge a tithe, ocus find ocus dub fuirre, is ainmuinter cachlafechtus beus beress a tochell. sic æclesiæ per singala, per quatuor terra partess .iiii. euangelis pasta (.i. is marsin an eclais ic sassad cethri rann sundradach in betha o soscelaib). is diriuch immessaib lasna tíí na screpra .i. nigri (.i. dub) ⁊ albi (.i. gel) .i. boni et malii abitant in æclesiæ.

— Sanas Cormaic

Translation:

FIDCHELL [Fithchill B] .i. féth‑ciall, fáth‑ciall .i.e. it requires sense (ciall) and fáth (‘learning’) in playing it. Or fuath‑cell, .i. fuath cille ‘likeness of a church’, in the first place, the fidchell is four-cornered, its squares are right-angled, and black and white are on it, and, moreover, it is different people that in turn (b) win the game. Sic et ecclesia per singula per iiii. terrae partes iiii. evangeliis pasta (c). It is straight in the morals and points of the Scripture (a) et nigri [.i. dub B] et albi [.i. gel B] i.e. boni et mali, habitant in eeclesia.

— trans. John O’Donovan (1868) ed. Whitley Stokes

Is dūal deit‑si, sét nāch lag, m’ fit[h]chell, adarella lat,
bruinnit fuil sóer for a bil, nī cien di sonn indasfail.
Is mór colla cūan rinnech sán c[h]án immo deircinnech,
dosneim dos dlūit[h] dairpri rūaidh i taob inn firt iniertūaith.
Oco cuic[h]id duit dollēir ní rob mór nolabrathar,
nī tharla celtair talman dar dūil badit n‑amhrathor.
Leath a foirne ór buidhe, alaile is fiondruine,
a hindech do margarét, brecht la certa cía rét.
Cetheoir coinnle, soillsi bán nī meirv forosnat a clár,
beuil [in]na tein, scél nād gó, ní randath na roidhmethau.
A ferbolc, is amra sceúil, de ór imdernta a beúil,
glas forfācoibh fair in súi nāchunursloicce nac[h] dúi.

— Reicne Fothaid Canainne

Translation:

My draught-board, no mean treasure is thine; take it with thee!
Noble blood drips upon its rim, it is not far hence where it lies.
Many a body of the spear-armed hosts lies here and there around its crimson woof:
the dense bush of the ruddy oak-wood conceals it by the side of the grave north-west.
As thou carefully searchest for it, thou shouldst not speak much:
earth never covered anything so marvellous as it.
One half of its figures are yellow gold, the others are white bronze;
its woof is of pearl; it is the wonder of smiths how it was wrought.
Four candle-sticks, a white light, not feebly do they illumine its board;
grease in their fire, no false story, …
The bag for its figures—’tis a marvel of a story—its rim is embroidered with gold;
the master-smith has left a lock upon it which no ignorant person can open.

— ed. & trans. Kuno Meyer

‘Ata sund chena,’ ol Midir, ‘fidhchell nad mesum.’ Ba fir ón, clar n‑airgid ⁊ fir óir, ⁊ fuursundadh cacha hairdi furri di líc logmair, ⁊ ferbolg di fighi rond credumae.

— Tochmarc Étaíne

Translation:

‘I have here,’ said Midir, ‘a chess-board that is not inferior.’ That was true: a silver board and golden men, and each corner thereof lit up by a precious stone, and a bag for the men of plaited links of bronze.

— ed. & trans. Osborn Bergin, R.I. Best

⚜ Moilleadóir ✍ 08:28, 21 November 2025 (UTC)