Talk:Enver Pasha

Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2021

 Done

Under "Pan-Turkism and Death, 1921-22," reference no. 69 to Peter Hopkirk's "Setting the East Ablaze" is missing a page citation. The page is page 160 in John Murray 2016 paperback edition. I hope this helps. 68.80.16.50 (talk) 12:10, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Many thanks - I have the OUP paperback, so have used the publication details for that, the pagination appears to be the same as the John Murray paperback. DuncanHill (talk) 16:24, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Wrong

Enver Pasha was a member of the Ittıhat and Terakki. And he was a fan of Islamism. (Most people think Enver Pasha embraced the Turkish understanding, but in the poems and letters he wrote, it is understood that Enver Pasha was an Islamist.) However, the young Turks were Ottomanists. That's why Enver Pasha is not Young Turk, but Ittihat and Terakki Note:Internal I wrote from Google translation Türkçizer 37 (talk) 19:06, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

@Türkçizer 37: Do you have published sources which support the statements? If he was a member of the Ittıhat and Terakki and the statements in the poems, I would like to see them. Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 01:16, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Calling Enver Pasha islamist actually quite funny i want to see your sources @Türkçizer 37 İsyankar18 (talk) 14:44, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

you right . I change my mind. He is a turkish idealist. And its mean he pan türkist and islamist. enver pasha's islamist views can not be denied but this doesnt mean that he is purely islamist. After all, he was aiming the Turan.

I gaened my first ideas from murat bardakçi . but I think he is wrong.

I know Im late for the answering but my account was blocked for a while Türkçizer 37 (talk) 12:49, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Autograph

I found Enver's autograph in this https://archives.saltresearch.org/bitstream/123456789/129156/508/PFSIF9170823A083.jpg WhisperToMe (talk) 01:16, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Sentence remove request.

'although in January 1915, an Armenian named Hovannes had saved his life during a battle by carrying Enver through battle lines on his back.' Its story of Hitler and a polish soldier who saved him. Its not happened to Enver Pasha but Armenians try to create a new brand of Jewish Holocaust. Remove this sourceless and nonsense part please. Good wikis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.190.6.239 (talk) 20:19, 30 March 2021 (UTC)‎

It is sourced and here there is an other citation for it, there Enver shall have thanked to the Armenian patriarch in Constantinople for the event and the source is from the Armenian Genocide Museum. here at Historynet it is also mentioned, but this time he wrote a letter of gratitude to the Armenian Patriarch in Konya. So there are three citations who mention he was saved by an Armenian but the happenings around the event is not determined. As to me we can remove the Hovannes part but include the other citations for Armenian.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 20:44, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Enver Pasha Was Gagauz Turk

his grandson of enver pasha says enver pasha father side descent are based on the Gagauz Turks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQQALDuzObU&t=252s

He Was Not Albanian

https://www.google.com/search?q=enver+pasha+gagauz+turk+origin&rlz=1C1CHBD_trTR954TR954&biw=1242&bih=597&tbm=bks&sxsrf=AOaemvKFfyM9p6W-_csjm9qM6PjTdqzF8A%3A1631115535683&ei=D9k4Yc2NKZWVxc8P5IWvuAI&oq=enver+pasha+gagauz+turk+origin&gs_l=psy-ab.3...28010.28990.0.29106.7.7.0.0.0.0.130.371.0j3.3.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..4.0.0....0.HC2fg_u919I

even his own grandson says we are gagauz turk

Entry into WWI

This important topic of how Ottomans got involved in WWI is extremely important and tied to this character directly. I am surprised that it got not even a sentence here. Almost single-handedly, Enver forced the crumbling Ottoman Empire into war. Even surprised his own staff and friends. It ended up being a complete disaster for Ottomans and Turks in general. Needs to be expanded more in its own section probably. Otherwise the article looks really neat, much improved since the last time I lookedMurat (talk) 15:07, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2022

In the Introduction, the sentence starting "However multiple crisis in the Empire" should use the plural "crises". 118.210.201.226 (talk) 03:25, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

 Done  melecie  t - 03:31, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

I found a misspelled source in the references section and I think the article is locked for editing

just a quick thing, source 50 in the article: "Yılmaz, Șuhnaz (2016). "Revisiting Netwrosk and Narratives: Enver Pasha's Pan-Islamic and Pan-Turkic Quest". In Moreau, Odile; Schaar, Stuart (eds.). Subversives and Mavericks in the Muslim Mediterranean: A Subaltern History. University of Texas Press. p. 144. ISBN 9781477310939." lists the source name with the word Netwroks instead of Networks which I found a bit funny but it should definitely be corrected right? I hope iI'm doing this correctly btw because i dont really know how to add a question in the talk page haha — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.72.205.60 (talk) 16:27, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

 Done Paradise Chronicle (talk) 09:05, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

No Room for Armenian Propaganda

Enough with the partial and nonsensical Armenian propaganda. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia and not a forum for fantasies of some loosers who can’t take responsibility for their actions. No, Enver Pasha was not a war criminal according to many accounts. Even if he’s convicted, he paid for it in an unjust way. If you have anything academic to add then please do so. Otherwise it will be challenged here. And don’t come with biased Armenian sources please. We need neutral, historical citations. Thank you. Wikimicky1 (talk) 04:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

• "Enough with the partial and nonsensical Armenian propaganda."

Where?

• "This is supposed to be an encyclopedia"

You're trying to say that it isn't?

• "and not a forum for fantasies of some loosers who can’t take responsibility for their actions."

Who are "some loosers"?

• " No, Enver Pasha was not a war criminal according to many accounts."

Which accounts? Post sources!

• "Even if he’s convicted, he paid for it in an unjust way."

Your personal opinion about him is worth jack, just like mines. Wikipedia is written using reliable sources, not personal opinions.

• "If you have anything academic to add then please do so."

You literally removed a Routledge and University of Pennsylvania Press source.

• "Otherwise it will be challenged here."

WP:FORUM-like rants are not a "challenge" to proper WP:RS.

• "'And don’t come with biased Armenian sources please. We need neutral, historical citations."

If you think they are not RS, you are free to bring them to WP:RSN.

You'll need some very strong sources to prove that this is "partial and nonsensical Armenian propaganda". The books are published by proper publishers. I won't further comment on the WP:FORUM-like excerpt, but I can guarantee you that another one of such posts will result in you being reported to ANI. Best,

- LouisAragon (talk) 00:53, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

@Buidhe: @Kansas Bear: Thoughts about these two sources? If someone could add the missing page numbers, that'd be great. If they fail WP:VER, I'm sure there are other WP:RS that can be added. - LouisAragon (talk) 00:53, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

The sources removed do seem acceptable for the content that they cite. (t · c) buidhe 03:13, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Most of the content except "revolutionary" and the exact birth / death dates should be verifiable to this. (t · c) buidhe 03:14, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Enver Pasha

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Enver Pasha's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "abc":

• From Naciye Sultan: Adra, Jamil (2005). Genealogy of the Imperial Ottoman Family 2005. pp. 12–13.
• From Şehzade Yusuf Izzeddin: Adra, Jamil (2005). Genealogy of the Imperial Ottoman Family 2005. p. 15.
• From Şadiye Sultan: Adra, Jamil (2005). Genealogy of the Imperial Ottoman Family 2005. pp. 27.
• From Nilufer Hanımsultan: Adra, Jamil (2005). Genealogy of the Imperial Ottoman Family 2005. pp. 19.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 01:58, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Unreferenced additions

@Sira Aspera: you recently made sevreal edits that are unreferenced. They have footnotes, but the footnotes (most notably, to Rorlich) are undefined. Will you be able to fix this issue by supplying the reference, or should the changes be reverted? -- Mikeblas (talk) 00:17, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: HIS 347

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2023 and 27 April 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jzdollar (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Wvc9, Loveyourlight.

— Assignment last updated by Soviethistorian (talk) 02:36, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 June 2024

I want to have an editing request to change his ethnicity. I'll use viable sources including his own note-book aswell. Enverist Turk (talk) 18:13, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Lightoil (talk) 18:54, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 November 2024

Can you please capitalize "Deputy commander-in-chief" and "Chief of staff of the commander-in-chief" Yesyesmrcool (talk) 22:05, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Already done It appears you have gained the permissions to do the edit yourself (and have done so), so closing this request. LizardJr8 (talk) 05:02, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Mass murderer category

Would the mass murderer category be appropriate here? 2600:100C:A20D:BB75:8163:18A:8713:C894 (talk) 01:25, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes, as genocide is a type of mass murder. 2A0A:EF40:425:D901:75B2:7487:A90C:2F6E (talk) 10:53, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

Birth date

Was Enver Pasha born on 22 November 1881 or 23 November 1881? Alleged editor (talk) 13:58, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

23 november 1881 Selim beg (talk) 16:58, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

"Blaming the failure on armenians"

There is no reliable documentation or verifiable telegram confirming this claim. None of the cited sources provide primary evidence or indicate where this information originates. It is based largely on unsubstantiated wartime propaganda Selim beg (talk) 16:58, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 September 2025

I'm not sure if this is right but on this page is says that "İsmail Enver was born in Constantinople (Istanbul) on 22 November 1881.[15]" but everywhere else on the page says he was born on the 23rd. Is this a mistake? I haven't checked the sources and I'm a new user, sorry. Lilianaeh (talk) 13:56, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Slomo666 (talk) 17:52, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

Good catch. Wooze could explain why they made this change unilaterally back in February 2024 and thus causing an inconsistency. Clearly one source won't be enough to change it, since we have a source that puts his birth date on 22 November. StephenMacky1 (talk) 18:16, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

You reverted my change without waiting for me to respond. What do you expect me to say @StephenMacky1? Check Turkish resources. You might find more. Wooze^★ 22:58, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

I was wondering if there is any explanation about what makes the birth date more accurate? There needs to be if two birth dates have been mentioned in the literature. A revert does not annul discussion and I already explained why I did it. Inconsistent birth dates confuse readers. StephenMacky1 (talk) 09:45, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

29 October

Pages were already cited in the citations. References were formatted too so i have no idea what you're talking about. @Jon698 Selim beg (talk) 11:52, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 November 2025

İsmâil Enver (Ottoman Turkish: اسماعیل انور پاشا; Turkish: İsmail Enver Paşa; 22 November 1881 – 4 August 1922), better known as Enver Pasha, was an Ottoman-Turkish military officer, revolutionary, and one of the leading members of the ruling triumvirate known as the “Three Pashas” (along with Talaat Pasha and Cemal Pasha) who held power in the late Ottoman Empire.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 December 2025

"His mother Ayşe Dilara was a Tatar"

Enver pasha's mother believed to be Crimean Tatar not Volga Tatar. It's said in the source but someone possibly mistakenly linked it to Volga Tatars. If someone can link "Tatar" to Crimean Tatars that'd be great. ~2025-43333-44 (talk) 17:59, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: The link goes to Tatars, not Volga Tatars. Day Creature (talk) 21:21, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Enver Pasha in Estonia

It is very unlikely that Enver Pasha was arrested by bolsheviks in Estonia in 1919 or 1920, especially in Tallinn. Tallinn was not in control of Bolsheviks since February 1918. Territory of Estonia was from May 1919 controlled by Estonian government. ~2026-38053-84 (talk) 18:57, 3 July 2026 (UTC)

Quoted sources say it was in Kaunas, Lithuania. Previous editor either did not read quoted sources or was trolling. Either way it is a clear mistake. ~2026-38040-54 (talk) 21:51, 3 July 2026 (UTC)