Talk:El Chapo

Occupation should be title

Just FYI. Also according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Eyer#Overt_whitewashing_and_lying this user, he is a businessman, not a criminal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.60.186.231 (talk) 04:30, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Nickname Translation

The article claims that "El Chapo" translates as "The Shorty". In fact, however, a better translation would be simply "Shorty". Spanish typically tacks on an "El" ("The") as a prefix even for nicknames, but in English a definite article is definitely not used. Could an established editor please review and correct? Thanks.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C445:869:50E5:91A8:6BA6:EEC3 (talk) 23:48, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

•  Done Yes, I agree. This was changed fairly recently without concensus. Though technically correct, it reads much better now. Thank you. MX (✉ • ✎) 01:43, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 13 February 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved: consensus appears to be against a move at this time. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 23:17, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

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Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán → El Chapo – The current title breaks naming conventions, and he is commonly known as El Chapo. See WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NICKNAME. If anybody has alternate proposals, we can discuss those as well Tærkast (Discuss) 19:27, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

• Note: previous discussion at Talk:Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán/Archive 1#Requested move 23 March 2017. Dekimasuよ! 19:39, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
• 'Noted - Thanks, I've looked over that. That discussion was more or less two years ago, not particularly extensive, and also the reason I stated we can discuss alternative proposals. The current title breaks convention, and ideally shouldn't be used.--Tærkast (Discuss) 19:45, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. Let's use his real name (as in United States of America v. Joaquín Guzmán Loera). In other words I support a move to Joaquín Guzmán Loera. -SusanLesch (talk) 20:08, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
• Suport per WP:COMMONNAME Felicia (talk) 20:16, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. This current title is widely known and used. There are other Chapos too, so this is just fine. I also oppose a move to "Joaquín Guzmán Loera", since that would pretty much make him unrecognizable to most readers. MX (✉ • ✎) 20:25, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment - So people are really fine with the current awkward title which breaks conventions? Doesn't seem like people want to compromise either or are willing to offer alternative proposals.--Tærkast (Discuss) 20:31, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

A search of Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán on Google returns 17.5 million hits, whereas El Chapo returns 157 million. A Google Book search for Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán returns 5,690 results, whereas El Chapo returns 39,000. Interestingly, the Google Search for just his name Joaquin Guzman returns 217,000 results.--Tærkast (Discuss) 20:35, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

• It is not against convention. See WP:TITLESPECIALCHARACTERS. Plus, we have precedent for our current title with "Weird Al" Yankovic. MX (✉ • ✎) 20:44, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
• Are Google hits the only thing we should go by? Because if yes, you might have a case. But given that fact that Chapo is also a reference to other drug lords (like Chapo Isidro) and other people, I think it's safe to keep it as is. I will check back again when other people comment here and reconsider. MX (✉ • ✎) 20:44, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Except "Weird Al" is different to El Chapo, media sources usually refer to him "also known as El Chapo". More media sources use El Chapo to refer to Guzman than others, it's about the common name.--Tærkast (Discuss) 21:07, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Show me one media source that only refers to him as El Chapo and gives no mention to "Joaquín" or "Guzmán". I'm asking because I know the media uses "El Chapo" on its headlines because its shorter, but once you read their articles they refer to him by his name too. MX (✉ • ✎) 21:32, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. This is too frivolous a name. He is actually widely known exactly as Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán. Obviously "El Chapo" will redirect to that title. I also think there's some validity (though obviously not a deciding factor) in seeing how the Spanish-langugage Wikipedia handles it. They don't use "El Chapo" in the article title at all, FWIW. Moncrief (talk) 21:01, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Widely known exactly? Did you look at the search results? In addition, it is interesting to note that many other requested moves usually have people suggesting alternative proposels in the form of "I oppose a move to this title, but support a move to." I doubt that's going to happen here. It would seem that there is a consensus to rather do nothing than move it to a more acceptable title, even if, as there has been, suggestions not to include the nickname at all.--Tærkast (Discuss) 21:07, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

"El Chapo" is Mexican slang for "the short one" or "Shorty," so obviously it's going to get more Google hits, as it's also used in other contexts. I'm talking about his common-name usage in reputable media articles, where he is never referred to simply as "El Chapo" in the way that people like Cher or Madonna are. He is referred to in New York Times articles (for example) by both his given name and nickname, usually simultaneously at first reference. Moncrief (talk) 21:13, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. This is the English Wikipedia and "El Chapo" is how he is commonly referred to by most English speakers. Rreagan007 (talk) 21:15, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose plain El Chapo, since reliable sources usually include his name too. The current title is ok, and it's not exactly a violation since El Chapo isn't a hypocorism (see articles like Donald "Duck" Dunn, Evelyn "Champagne" King, and Robert "Mutt" Lange for other examples) but I wouldn't really be opposed to Joaquín Guzmán if people want the nickname dropped. "Loera" is unnecessary, since second surnames are typically ignored per Spanish customs and it isn't usually used by sources. Nohomersryan (talk) 21:22, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

• Keeping just "Joaquín Guzmán" would be a terrible idea. Most people wouldn't know who the hell that person is without the nickname. The real question here is if we should keep the title as is or just move to El Chapo. Removing the nickname is out of the question. MX (✉ • ✎) 21:26, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose - His name precedes the nickname. In the past, when the title issue was bought up, the consensus was to blend is name+nickname as it stands today: Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán. Rowan Forest (talk) 22:17, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose I honestly think it is unnecessary, because "El Chapo" is already a redirect to Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán, and I have also seen articles with the first name, then nickname in quotation marks, then the last name. From, TheSmartPersonUS1 ^(TSPUS1) (talk) 22:49, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
• Mild support When I first saw that there was a discussion for moving this page to El Chapo, I initially was completely for the idea. I had never heard him referred to by his full name in, for example, headlines. Usually media will say his full name in the first or second paragraph, but simply use El Chapo in the headline. However, after reading the other arguments here, it does seem a bit too vague. But re-reading WP:COMMONNAME, it does seem that El Chapo on its own satisfies the 5 principles (though perhaps not precision fully) much better than the current title. Therefore, I mildly support this idea. MrAureliusR_Talk! 01:50, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:TONE and User:MX's comments above. —  AjaxSmack  02:58, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose – "El Chapo" is ambiguous, and it's better to use his name. Dicklyon (talk) 04:45, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. Based on several of the comments above, simply "El Chapo" would leave too much ambiguity (although it has admittedly redirected to the article in question since January 2017). For the time being "Joaquín Guzmán" or "Joaquín Guzmán Loera" appear not to be as widely known by people who might read the English Wikipedia. –Ntmamgtw (talk) 18:16, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose If you see other article with nicknames used, but the famous person has their full name and nickname in these " things. 2602:306:8BB9:4E20:F5FC:450A:3813:66B2 (talk) 03:31, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose per rationales given by Moncrief and MX. ╠╣uw [talk] 11:15, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose: even though "El Chapo" is commonly used, "Joaquín Guzmán" is common as well, and using solely the nickname as title lowers the professional quality of the article, and thus Wikipedia as a whole. Formality should be encouraged. Consensus trumps dogmatic adherence to rules (remember, Wikipedia has no firm rules). --Animalparty! (talk) 21:41, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
• Comment. What would be wrong with "El Chapo" Guzmán? Same as "Weird Al", and supported by sources. wumbolo ^^^ 22:39, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
• Support Wumbolo's suggestion of "El Chapo" Guzmán. COMMON and specific.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:27, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
• Strong Support per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC (he is best known/recognized as El Chapo by English speakers and is clearly the primary topic for "El Chapo", so the ambiguous issue is moot. The other uses of "El Chapo" are obscure. In fact, El Chapo already redirects here, so the community has already established this El Chapo is the primary topic. --В²C ☎ 21:12, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

• So is the current title, Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán, what he is best known by. Please find one source where he is not referred to by his first/last name as well, and only as El Chapo. El Chapo is short, so you'll see it in the headlines. But every source will mention his name. Heck, see the U.S. government's official press release after his conviction: Joaquin 'El Chapo’ Guzman, Sinaloa Cartel Leader, Convicted of Running a Continuing Criminal Enterprise and Other Drug-Related Charges. MX (✉ • ✎) 21:58, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
  • I don't deny your claim. Just saying "El Chapo" is MORE commonly used to refer to him than is "Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán". --В²C ☎ 23:10, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
    • So is "The US" over the "United States". Perhaps we should change the name of that article too. Or maybe we can agree that "El Chapo" has more results because it means a lot of other things besides than the man in question. MX (✉ • ✎) 23:16, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2021

El Chapo's Wife , Emma Coronel Aispiro was arrested on 23 Feb, 2021 https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/wife-of-mexican-drug-lord-el-chapo-arrested-in-us-2376444 2405:201:A805:205E:A136:5991:EA07:1BC9 (talk) 13:37, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done. Arrested on "Monday", which is the 22nd: . ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 02:11, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

is Guzman jewish?

https://www.jta.org/2016/01/13/culture/el-chapos-wears-jewish-fashion-designers-and-you-can-too https://www.jpost.com/international/el-chapos-wife-wears-star-of-david-necklace-to-court-576817 Jfahhe (talk) 02:58, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Height

@Gabbobler: The Telegraph is considered a reliable source, and we don't remove reliably sourced material just because we find it hard to believe. See WP:V, WP:RS, and WP:OR. If you have another source that gives a different number for his height, feel free to cite it. GA-RT-22 (talk) 19:48, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Edit Request

In a box it says that he has an occupation, I recommend it is changed to "Former". 2A00:23C8:6F1E:2401:F974:DA8A:AD0B:5004 (talk) 15:50, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

17 relatives of El Chapo allowed into United States by the Donald Trump administration

Shouldn't we add a mention of the fact that the Donald Trump administration has allowed 17 relatives of El Chapo into the U.S.?

Sources:

• https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sinaloa-cartel-leader-family-enters-us-deal-trump-administration-mexico/
• https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-05-13/were-17-members-of-el-chapo-guzmans-family-escorted-into-usa-from-mexico

98.123.38.211 (talk) 03:14, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

(8 days later) Isn't someone going to update this article with the above information (in order to help make this article more properly encyclopedic)? 98.123.38.211 (talk) 22:55, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 23 February 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Supporting arguments are more policy- or guideline- based (WP:COMMONNAME, WP:NICKNAME). The two opposers, on the other hand, appeared to have a WP:IJUSTDONTLIKEIT approach. Therefore, there is a clear consensus to move. (closed by non-admin page mover) 1isall (talk | contribs) 21:11, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

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Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán → El Chapo – Per WP:COMMONNAME (most sources call him "El Chapo") and WP:NICKNAME. ⚠︎ ArkadenBoden ⚠︎ (talk) 15:42, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

• Support per nom. WP:NICKNAME says Avoid (for example) adding a nickname, or a contracted version of the original given name(s), in quotes or parentheses between first and last name. El Chapo is also more WP:CONCISE.  Bait30  ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 17:50, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
• Support per others. El Chapo is more widely known in sources. WP:COMMONNAME supports this as well and should be changed to El Chapo. RoyalSilver 19:09, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Current title is directly against WP:NICKNAME. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 19:58, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose. Too short. Could live with El Chapo Guzmán. Moscow Mule (talk) 21:02, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

  @Moscow Mule How does length relate to stated WP policies? WidgetKid ^converse 17:07, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

  El Chapo, "too short"... OK, never mind. But -- and in contrast to Oseguera on this point -- I remember mostly seeing Guzmán identified by "nickname-plus-surname", not the unqualified nickname. At least not until second reference. Ditto Zambada. Moscow Mule (talk) 20:41, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

• Support as it is clearly the COMMONNAME. Paul Vaurie (talk) 05:51, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
• Strong support per nom Evaporation123 (talk) 06:04, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
• Strong support per WP:NICKNAME and WP:COMMONNAME. WidgetKid ^converse 17:06, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

Strong Oppose People could understand the current name better. CtrlAltSpace (he/him) 06:17, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

@CtrlAltSpace, please enlighten us! WidgetKid ^converse 06:44, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

Support Warpfrz (talk) 22:46, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

@ArkadenBoden Weak support per common but more in support of "El Chapo Guzmán" ThePoggingEditor (talk) 00:59, 26 February 2026 (UTC)

Support per nom and others - 00101984hjw (talk) 21:00, 26 February 2026 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:15, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move request not materializing

Despite the move request having ended in a vote to move to "El Chapo" this has not been carried out. Evaporation123 (talk) 22:34, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

I discussed this with the closer here. Just a technical thing, it should be happening soon.  Bait30  ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 22:47, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining, its all good now. Evaporation123 (talk) 02:41, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, I should have mentioned the page's move-protection and the technical request I submitted in my closing comment. 1isall (talk | contribs) 12:35, 4 March 2026 (UTC)