Talk:Donner Party/Archive 5

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Archive 5

Inconsistencies in the party members

I tabled out the people mentioned as being part of the various groups and ran into some issues. (I got very lost in the names and thought a table would help me understand better.)

1. "Also traveling with the Donner brothers were teamsters Hiram O. Miller (29)" this particular teamster is never mentioned again.

2. Charles Stanton, who gets a portrait on the page, and Antonio both appear without any indication of how or where; the Donner Party timeline page mentions both as being members of the Donner group.

3. "Two young single men named Spitzer and Reinhardt traveled with another German couple, the Wolfingers, who were rumored to be wealthy; they also had a hired driver, "Dutch Charley" Burger." Although Joseph Reinhardt is mentioned again, Dutch Charley is not, and the only Spitzer mentioned is Augustus Spitzer, which implies them both to be duplicates of Augustus Spitzer and Charles Burger. Both of them were earlier classed as Donner group teamsters rather than Wolfinger's, and are classed as such on the Donner Party timeline page again.

4. "the Donner families hastily constructed tents to house 21 people, including Mrs. Wolfinger, [and] her child" this is the only mention of Mrs. Wolfinger's child in the entire article, and the 12 children mentioned are already filled by the various Donner children.

Related to 1 and 2 possibly: there's an offhand mention on leaving from Blacks Fork of "Donner hired a replacement driver". No reason is given for why he needed to hire a replacement, nor who the replacement is. It seems plausible that Hiram Miller left and was replaced with Charles Stanton or Antonio, but I don't have any idea of where to look in the references to check for the reality of the situation. If nothing else, that one sentence needs clarification.

Because of these inconsistencies, there are a minimum of 88 people mentioned, and if you include Sarah Keyes, Luis and Salvador, and the Wolfinger child, that number goes up to 92. This is two more than Stephen McCurdy's number. It seems likely that the Wolfinger child is not particularly historically attested, but the other extra person is unclear. I assume it's Hiram Miller, but, again, that's my supposition rather than a researched answer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.77.121.239 (talk • contribs) 03:37, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Use of the term "migrant"

The common terms used for persons headed out west during the early 1800's included Pioneer farmers, homesteaders, or American settlers. Rarely, if ever, were they called "migrants". 2600:1700:A020:BC50:F0A3:B1B4:509B:247F (talk) 01:32, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

It appears that many modern sources use the term "migrants" for such people - see for example America's Great Migrations Project. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:06, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

I think "migrants" is a more neutral term. WCCasey (talk) 15:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree - pioneer or settler are both politically charged. Migrant is totally neutral. Cristiano Tomás (talk) 17:13, 16 December 2024 (UTC)