Talk:Cluniac Order

To check

I have performed the translation and some editing, primarily to avoid the overlap with other articles. However, there are discrepancies between the text and at least some scolarship, listed here. I am not an expert and might never address these:

11th century

1. The 1,000+ establishments: Cluny Abbey gives a conflicting figure of 314 monasteries (Alston) for the 12th century — a discrepancy between the two articles
2. The Cluny III sentence date discrepancy — this section says 1089 (Gauvard) while Cluny Abbey says 1088 (and dates Hézelon's involvement to 1088)

Cluny's influence on the West

1. "ten provinces" followed by eleven names: Cluny, France, Auvergne, Bourbonnais, Gascony, Poitou, Provence, Lombardy, Germany, England, Spain.
2. Gregory VII as a monk "from Cluny": while Cluny Abbey asserts it too, Gregory VII's Cluniac profession is debated. Modern historical consensus is that Hildebrand was a monk in Rome and was never a professed member of the Cluniac order, though he maintained ideological alignment with their reform principles.

Decline

1. Papacy appointing abbots directly (13th c.) sits oddly against Cluny Abbey's statement that with the Concordat of Bologna (1516) the king gained the power to appoint the abbot.

--Викидим (talk) 21:27, 11 July 2026 (UTC)

Reorganisation

I've copied the information in here that directly relates to Cluny Abbey into Cluny Abbey, and vice versa. Both articles still need quite a lot of tidying. I propose removing the info in here that's just about Cluny Abbey, not the order as a whole (though the two are hard to disentangle), if others aren't opposed to this.DougieMcC (talk) 21:22, 27 July 2026 (UTC)

I support any cautious rebalancing (a stub section about the abbey and major abbots is still needed here). In particular, "Abbacy of Majolus of Cluny (954–994)" is here for the only reason: this abbacy was not for some reason detailed in the abbey article, and I was trying to create as little disturbance in the (old) article about the abbey as possbile to avoid looking through history there. Otherwise, I would have moved this section to the abbey article. So if you are knowledgeable about the abbey article, Godspeed! Викидим (talk) 22:59, 27 July 2026 (UTC)