Talk:Carl Panzram

Sodomy? No rape?

Not necessarily because he was homosexual? No female victims? I find it hard to believe that statement. He obviously was a very bad person. But performing sodomy on over 1000 male persons and NOT a SINGLE recorded female victim? 97.103.81.29 (talk) 01:48, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

The way the article is written, it seems like the claim is Panzram's own, taken from his autobiography. I wouldn't know as I haven't read it. PenguinJockey (talk) 07:32, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Why does he have to have raped women? I wasn't aware that there was a code of conduct in place as far as who you are required to rape. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.242.221 (talk) 03:38, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Super late reply.... but.... he himself says that he sodomized men because he was sodomized by four men as a teenager on a train. — -dainomite   02:00, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. Rape isn't about sex. Its about power and control. He hated men more than women. Asarelah (talk) 01:56, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

He had sexual intercourse with a women early on in his life and got some kind of STD as a result. Basically that put him off, it's in the Panzram papers — Preceding unsigned comment added by Commasavoy (talk • contribs) 22:10, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

That must be the cause of his evil infamies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.108.113.209 (talk) 20:13, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Raped by hobos

How is turning homeless persons into hobo considered vandalism? He explicitly stated that he was raped by a group of New York Hobos, and there is a difference between hobos, tramps, bums, etc. Homeless persons is kind of vague. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.85.239.90 (talk) 16:06, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree, 'hobos' is probably the more accurate word and more likely to have been the word Panzram actually used. I'll change it back. --CliffC (talk) 18:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is good for at least one laugh every day - a bit of history: apparently the article has said 'gang-raped by a group of hobos' ever since it was first written on October 22, 2004. On October 17, 2007 some anon changed it to 'a group of New York hobos', without a citation or edit summary. On September 20 of this year some sensitive soul changed it to 'a group of homeless people in New York'. I'll take out the 'New York' reference. --CliffC (talk) 20:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Birth year

Given as 1891 in Killer: A Journal of Murder (novel), purportedly by Panzram himself (the book mixes his own words with those of the authors), but as 1892 in this page, evidently in Panzram's own hand. I haven't read the book in a several years; maybe this discrepancy is addressed therein. I'm guessing he simply didn't know his own birth year, due to his limited education and rough upbringing by poor and probably even less educated immigrant parents, who he describes as "ignorant." He describes himself as "too dumb to learn anything," but his handwriting is legible and spelling decent if imperfect, so he evidently leaned something in the time he attended school. One might expect him to know his own birth year. Anyway, it's a minor puzzle that I thought was worth mentioning. Perhaps a more authoritative source will appear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.105.246.237 (talk) 03:21, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

His birth date was June 28, 1892, handwritten by Carl Panzram in his own papers at SDSU Special Collections. Filmmakerjohnb (talk) 18:50, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Strange Sentence

This is a very well written article apart from one odd sentence in the lead, i.e.: "In graphic detail, Panzram confesses to 21 murderes (22 after confession), and a over 1,000 sodomy's on male humans." I kind of get the gist of it... but it sounds like it has been written by someone whose grasp of English isn't so great. Could someone who knows exactly what they mean rewrite? 88.111.128.18 (talk) 23:43, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Irrelevant link in external links

"Is this what you're looking for?" keeps appearing in the external links section. It is an irrelevant link.

Injury during escape attept

In Carl Panzram: The Spirit of Hatred and Revenge (2011) it was stated that during an escape attempt, Carl Panzram injured his spine and broke his legs and was given no medical attention for these injuries. This seems like important information, because this would have caused him a lot of physical pain for the remainder of his life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.61.40.188 (talk) 01:24, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

"One neck" quotation

The remark about wishing "the entire human race had one neck, and he had his hands around it" is actually a quotation. Panzram may not have been aware of its origins, but it was originally attributed (in Suetonius' "Lives of the Caesars") to the Roman Emperor Caligula ("Would that the Roman people had but one neck!"). It shows up, much later, in Oscar Wilde's play "Vera; or, The Nihilists" (1880), where it is paraphrased and attributed to the Czar of Russia (in the play, the line is: "I would to God that this people had but one neck that I might strangle them"). --- Peterravn (talk) 00:31, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Gay?

He raped over 1,000 men---all political correctness aside, shouldn't he be categorized as gay/LGBT?Dozzzzzzzzzing off (talk) 00:24, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

No. Why should he? I also removed the lgbr cat. Regards, Hermodhr (talk) 10:14, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Why shouldn't he?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CFA2:6980:1594:155C:5DBC:DF1 (talk) 16:49, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Maybe he could be categorized as gay, although this is a little bit beside the point. Most serial killers attack prostitutes (male and female), homeless folks, little kids, vulnerable person. It goes beyond sexuality, these are target of opportunity. And Panzram was surrounded with mostly men, be it in jail or as a hobo. In africa he went after under-aged girls for some reasons (he had the opportunity). Commasavoy (talk) 22:18, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Asking for it on this entry is to ask it on every entry containing repeated or exclusive sodomy and/or male on male rape. Strangely (or not should you live in a cave) such requests are absent from nearly every page on correctional facilities where male inmates claim rape, abuse and sodomy by male guards. Such as each and every facility Carl Panzram was sent to. 73.188.142.252 (talk) 13:01, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Incorrect Dates

Date of birth says June 28, 1891. The first date in date apprehended says 1899, which would make him 8-9 years old. Early life says "First sign of criminal activity occurred when he was 12". I am going to correct the first date apprehended. 95.45.113.179 (talk) 21:17, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

I would suggest consulting the sources rather than using the dates already in the article for this. - - MrBill3 (talk) 22:01, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Confirmed murders

Besides the acessory killing of Minto and his last killing of Warnke, Panzram murders that can be confirmed are: George Henry McMahon in MAss in 1922; ; a "John Doe" in Conn in 1923; Alexander Lusszock and Alexander Uszacke in Philadelphia in 1923 and 1928. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.156.37 (talk) 14:22, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Panzram himself refers to killing 21, yet the article refers to more than that.Royalcourtier (talk) 20:26, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Its possible that Lusszock and Uszacke are mistakes for the same person-both 14 years old; both residents of Philadelphia and both killed by Panzram. Likewise after his last arrest in 1929 Panzram claimed to have committed a murder in Texas in 1910: In the winter of 1910 after serving a short sentence at Rusk, Texas Panzram claimed that he went to Juarez, Mexico to try to enlist in the Mexican Federal Army; he then left on a train for Del Rio, Texas and got off at a small town 50 to 100 miles east of El Paso, Texas where about a mile south of that town he allegedly abducted, assaulted, kicked and strangled a man and stole #35.00 from his victim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.5.88.36 (talk) 12:09, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

References

LGBT categories

I don't think that he should be put into the LGBT categories simply because he primarily attacked men. Rape is about control and power, not sexual desire. I'm removing the LGBT categories. Asarelah (talk)

Why does this have no edit date or reply button? Is this a hacked account? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ~2026-43667-26 (talk) 10:16, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

Execution Rocks Lighthouse

I am trying to find proof that he dumped his bodies near Execution Rocks Lighthouse. He was based at City Island and said, "Then I would take a rope and tie a rock on them and put them into my row boat, row out in the main channel about 1 mile and drop 'em over board. They are there yet, 10 of 'em". Looking at the maps, Stepping Stones lighthouse is much closer (about 1 mile) from City Island, whereas Execution Rocks is close to 4 miles away. Rowing 8 miles there and back from City Island in a busy channel at night seems very unlikely. It seems he never explicitly mentions Execution Rocks, and it seems much more likely it is Stepping Stones.

https://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/nas/streaming/dept/scuastaf/collections/Panzram/Panzram-Box01Folder03.pdf 24.45.196.39 (talk) 17:07, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Bad sources, much is alleged or just fantasy

Many sources have 0 backing. Some are even private blog links. Some are just links to Google or Bing search. Much of this info is based on creative writing exercises it seems. If the info is non verifiable it should be labeled as such and not as fact. 2600:1700:2054:190:3D72:85C8:2EC8:2748 (talk) 18:05, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

The entire article needs to be redone and expanded. Paleface Jack (talk) 00:12, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

confirmation of 1920 shipwreck

With the stolen money under the alais John O'Leary he bought a yacht Akista, which he used to kill ten sailors. This was stopped only when the AKista was wrecked on New Jersey. In his own words: "Back in New York in the summer of 1920 I think - June or July but maybe August. Five days after I got back broke on the Manchuria I went up to New Haven, Connecticut. There I robbed the home of someone in that place. I got about $40,000 worth of jewelry and some Liberty Bonds. They were signed and registered with the name W.H. Taft and among the jewelry was a watch with his name on it, presented to him by some congress or some senate while he was the Governor General of the Philippine Islands. So I know it was the same man who had given me my three years in the U.S. Military Prison when he was Secretary of War about 1906. Out of this robbery I got about $3,000 in cash and kept some of the stuff, including a .45 Colt Automatic. With that money I bought a yacht - the Akista. Her initials and registry numbers were K.N.B.C., 107,296. On my yacht I had quarters for five people but I was alone for a while. Then I figured it would be a good plan to hire a few sailors to work for me, get them out to my yacht, get them drunk, commit sodomy on them, rob them and then kill them. This I done. Every day or two I would get plenty of booze by robbing other yachts there. The Barbara H was one of them. I robbed her and a dozen or so others around there. I was hitting the booze pretty hard myself at that time. Every day or two I would go to New York and hang around 25 South Street and size up the sailors. Whenever I saw a couple who were about my size and seemed to have money, I would hire them to work on my yacht. I would always promise a big pay and easy work. What they got was something else. I would take them and all their clothes and gear out to my yacht at City Island. There we would wine and dine and when they were drunk enough they would go to bed. When they were asleep I would get my .45 Colt Army Automatic, this I stole from Mr. Taft's home, and blow their brains out. Then I would take a rope and tie a rock on them and put them into my rowboat, row out in the main channel about one mile and drop 'em overboard. They are there yet, ten of 'em. I worked that racket about three weeks. My boat was full of stolen stuff, and the people at City Island were beginning to look queer at me so the next two sailors I hired I kept alive and at work. One was named Delaney and the other was Goodman or Goodwin. The three of us on my boat pulled out one day and went as far as Graves End Bay, New York, where I robbed another yacht. They knew it but I figured on killing them both in a day or two. But we only got as far down the coast as Atlantic City, New Jersey, where my yacht was wrecked, with everything on her lost. The three of us got ashore alive. The other two I paid off and where they went I don't know or care. I was sick at that time and a Dr. Charles McGivern took care of me there at his home for a week or so. Him I gave a few pieces of jewelry of Old Man Taft's. I also gave him the .45 Colt Automatic that I done the killing with. I left his home and went back to Connecticut looking for another $40,000, but I got six months in the can at Bridgeport, Connecticut, instead for burglary. I done that six months and while there I borrowed $100 from my doctor, Charles McGivern. When I got out of the can I went to Philadelphia. There I got my Colt .45 back from the doctor..." There is confirmation for some of his account according to a contemporary Newspaper account: October 3, 1920 John O'Leary captain of yacht Akiska along with John Delaney and J. Gilmore had lashed themsleves to the yacht capstan after the Akiska foundered and turned over on its side on the Brigantien Shoals at Atlantic City NJ trying to make shelter in Absecon Inlet; on October 6, 1920 they were rescued by Captain Henry Brown of a fishing smack; O'Leary was in Hospital from Shock and exposure. 2603:6010:BB00:288B:88C0:2175:4AF1:7219 (talk) 01:01, 29 September 2025 (UTC)