Talk:Caledonian Railway 670 Class

Proposed merger

Casserley and Johnston show 294 and 670 as a single class. Biscuittin (talk) 08:38, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Those listed by Casserley & Johnston on p. 180 are the 300 class. Of these: nos. 300-309 (St Rollox order Y119) appeared first in 1918; nos. 294-299 (first portion of St Rollox Y122) were built in 1919; and nos. 670-679 (second portion of Y123) were built 1919-20.

The 294 class are those shown on p. 176 as the "Jumbo" class, no. 294 having been renumbered 1294 in 1919.

The 670 class were the Brittain 0-4-2 shown on p. 170, no. 670 having been withdrawn 1922 (by which time it had become no. 1670). --Redrose64 (talk) 15:46, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Several articles need re-naming then. Could you please summarise the changes (CR class + LMS numbers) so I can get it right. Biscuittin (talk) 19:17, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Proposed changes:

• LMS 17650-17682 from 294 Class to 300 Class
• LMS 17683-17692 from 670 Class to 300 Class
• LMS 17230-17473 from 259 Class to 294 Class

Is this correct? Biscuittin (talk) 08:19, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

I think, that since several articles may be affected, that I need to consider what may various books have to say on the subject, because some discrepancies have clearly come in from somewhere. I have three books which claim to list all CR locos running at the start of 1923:

• Casserley, H.C.; Johnston, Stuart W. (1974) [1966]. Locomotives at the Grouping 3: London Midland and Scottish. Shepperton: Ian Allan. ISBN 0-7110-0554-0.
• Cornwell, H.J. Campbell (1974). Forty Years of Caledonian Locomotives 1882-1922. Newton Abbot: David & Charles. ISBN 978-0-7153-6533-5.
• Baxter, Bertram (1984). Baxter, David (ed.). British Locomotive Catalogue 1825-1923, volume 4: Scottish and remaining English Companies in the LMS Group. Ashbourne: Moorland Publishing.

I also have others which cover classes on a selective basis, which I may also consider. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:31, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

OK, I'll wait for further details from you. Biscuittin (talk) 14:40, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

I've begun my general survey. The 0-6-0s are summarised at Talk:Locomotives of the Caledonian Railway#0-6-0. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:16, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Change to redirect

See discussion at Talk:Locomotives of the Caledonian Railway. Biscuittin (talk) 18:35, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

The Brittain 0-4-2

As noted above, the 670 Class were a series of 0-4-2 of George Brittain design. There were quite a few: Baxter (pp. 68-69) lists 30 built 1878-82, whose original numbers were 670-679 and 700-719. All were renumbered at least once by the CR - some were renumbered several times (e.g. 717→285→1205→1285→159→487→1717). Nine were withdrawn in 1922 or earlier, and the 21 survivors were allocated LMS 17000-20 in a strange order (possibly in order of rebuilding by McIntosh), but only 13 were actually renumbered. None survived to BR. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:55, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

New article created. Biscuittin (talk) 08:47, 26 June 2012 (UTC)