Talk:CGS Minto

Lede and WP:CITE

Repeating my edit summary in case someone misses it.

the lede must be the summary of the article and should not contain extra unreferenced facts or opinions

Normally I would read this artinle in 45 secs. However I wasted at least 5 min no double check at least ten facts from the lede, and eight of them I failed to find in article text.

Please rewrite the lede per WP:LEDE. In particular, it should not contain minute detail not really necessary for understanding the article. For example, the statement "more powerful" is hardly important, but is is also unref. Oth the other hand ""first effectve" may be quitye important, but aagasin, I see no refernce for this fact.

Sorry for cn-bombing the lade, but I wanted to highlight the problem clearluy, bnecause it appears that since 2017 nobody appears to see the problem. --Altenmann >talk 16:11, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

Of other proiblems, I would advice to give foreign nammes in native languages. In parfticlular, fooffle serach for [Сусанин Скуратов Минто] reveals [Сусанин Скуратов Минто] some extra info (althouogh it is from forum, but it fives furthrer WP:RS, even snapshots from books). --Altenmann >talk 16:20, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

I have restructured the lead based on your complaints. I will not base anything on forum posts. Please do not slap tags on everything. That is tendentious editing and could be considered vandalism. Llammakey (talk) 19:11, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

Also, Canada is a bilingual nation. If I have to convert every foreign word into their native language, I might as well rewrite the whole article in French too, you know, to be consistent. My suggestion is to go write the article in Russian and then we link it through the interlanguage portal. Llammakey (talk) 19:18, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

@Llammakey: First of all, do not slap warning ytemplates on user pages og decent users arbitrarily on a first whim, this is impolite. Now, my logic was clearly explained in talk page so it is enough to answer in talk page. --Altenmann >talk 20:16, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

• There was nothing tendentious inn my edit. If you will be insistent, I will simply delete all unreferenced statements, per WP:V: Facts or claims without an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports them may be removed. They should not be restored without an inline citation to a reliable source.. My cn tags were intended to make your life easier, not harder. --Altenmann >talk 20:16, 17 September 2025 (UTC)
• Nobody required to base on forum posts. in my note I gave a refereence to the published book: "Паролов. И.В. Потери морских судов СССР в мирное время. Архангельск. 2013 " and a forum was mentioned simply because it dhad a screenshot from the book so that youo dont have to go to library but you dont haverr to add a ref to tghe forum. --Altenmann >talk 20:16, 17 September 2025 (UTC)
• Nobody wants yoou to write in French. Because French is in Latin and we dont translate ship names fdrom French and ou can doo google. But russian names are in Cyrillic and for convenience iit is good to see cyrilic spelling, v]because some transliterations may be connfuulisn, obsolelee r even erroneous. --Altenmann >talk 20:16, 17 September 2025 (UTC)
• Yes, writing in Russian wuld be a good idea, but I am not that much into World of Warships :-). Besides, I do not have cyrillic keaboard, bbut I can cut and paste Russian names from the internets. --Altenmann >talk 20:16, 17 September 2025 (UTC)
• That said, as you have already noticed, am a "drive-by editor" here. I ddont even remember how this page landed on my waathhclist. So feel free to ignor my advice, I will not sweat over it. --Altenmann >talk 20:16, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

I thought it only fair if you slap templates on articles, you were open to be slapped with templates yourself. It is only fair. I mean if you wanted discussion, you could have just opened here first. As for the Russian books, what makes them WP:RS? Just because they are books? This is the English wikipedia, what the heck does having words in Cyrillic do for the general English-speaking reader? Furthermore, if there is a problem with the transliteration, then you need to take it up with the source, not Wikipedia, because all the info, as you pointed out with your tags, needs to come from WP:RS We are not here to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS and if the source mistranslated something, please by all means, contact the editors of the book. Llammakey (talk) 11:49, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

OK, fair with templates. But it is sad that you have this kind attitude to correct knowledge. And no need to be ironic: if a sounrcce mkstrannslated or misreported sommething, the corrrect approach to find correct sources, not copy nonsense into Wikipedia. We have been doing this all the time, because even experts may err. --Altenmann >talk 16:12, 18 September 2025 (UTC)