Talk:Book of Job/Archive 3
Latest comment: 6 years ago by Vorbee in topic Job's Comforters
 | This is an archive of past discussions about Book of Job. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
| Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
"Without any reason"
Anyone can exegetically interpret that verse as he wishes. I would like to limit myself to mentioning it as it is in the Bible. Or does a literal and uncensored knowledge of the Bible cause scandal in believers? Ps.: sorry for inadvertently deleting the word "suffering". Accidents that happen when one edits. --Mauro Lanari (talk) 17:30, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- Hello, Mauro. "without any reason" modifies a verb in Job 2:3. So God says, "You incited me against him to ruin him without any reason" in Job 2:3. The question is whether "without any reason" modifies the verb or the "incite" or the verb "ruin". That is, is it God's ruining, or Satan's incitement, according to 2:3, that is without reason? If you'd like to quote Job 2:3 at length somewhere in the article, I have no objection. If you want to quote some reliable source that says God didn't have any reason for what he did in Job, I have no objection to that either.
- I don't think anyone is trying to censor out the fact that Job's is being unfairly punished here. We already have "the reader sees that God himself bears responsibility" and a whole bunch of material about how Job didn't have it coming. The question is about the sources used for sticking those three words onto another sentence: first with a self-published source, and then with Ellen van Wolde, who doesn't actually hold the view that the article was ascribing to her. Alephb (talk) 18:18, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, Alephb. As a passionate or expert in theology, you'll surely know that those three words have given rise to whole shelves of books in favor or contrary to the theodicy. I guarantee that I'm not at all interested in proposing such a debate here, but at least to bring back the biblical phrase considered so important. I take this opportunity to thank you for your kind and courteous response. So now, as promised, I'll just add "without any reason" and that's it. Okay? --Mauro L. 82.84.27.140 (talk) 19:15, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- Hello Mauro. If you'd like to add the whole sentence-long quote, I have no objection. If you want to stick those three words onto an already-existing sentence sourced to other sources, then the details of how that is done will matter. Alephb (talk) 19:27, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, Alephb. What do you think about this source? Pihlström, Sami (2015). "The Problem of Evil and Pragmatic Recognition". doi:10.1163/9789004301993_006. Chapter 5 (pp. 77—101) in Skowroński, Krzysztof Piotr, ed. (2015). Practicing Philosophy as Experiencing Life. Essays on American Pragmatism. Leiden: BRILL. ISBN 9789004301993. Have a good editing. Mauro 82.84.35.91 (talk) 17:27, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
- That would all depend on what, specifically, you want to do with those sources. Alephb (talk) 23:52, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
- It maybe worth mentioning...the KJV version says "without cause." Modern haphazard use of our language has tended to treat those two words as if they had the same meaning, but they truly mean two different things. In this context, it is certainly wrong to say that it was without *reason*. Perhaps they weren't *good* reasons, but no good reason and no reason at all quite different. What they did to Job was without cause in that Job had done not done anything that deserved punishment. (Which, of course, Jobs ill fortune was never a punishment at all, but a test of the philosophical question that Satan raised: whether or not seemingly selfless and perfect righteousness was actually driven by self interest.
- That would all depend on what, specifically, you want to do with those sources. Alephb (talk) 23:52, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, Alephb. What do you think about this source? Pihlström, Sami (2015). "The Problem of Evil and Pragmatic Recognition". doi:10.1163/9789004301993_006. Chapter 5 (pp. 77—101) in Skowroński, Krzysztof Piotr, ed. (2015). Practicing Philosophy as Experiencing Life. Essays on American Pragmatism. Leiden: BRILL. ISBN 9789004301993. Have a good editing. Mauro 82.84.35.91 (talk) 17:27, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
- Hello Mauro. If you'd like to add the whole sentence-long quote, I have no objection. If you want to stick those three words onto an already-existing sentence sourced to other sources, then the details of how that is done will matter. Alephb (talk) 19:27, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, Alephb. As a passionate or expert in theology, you'll surely know that those three words have given rise to whole shelves of books in favor or contrary to the theodicy. I guarantee that I'm not at all interested in proposing such a debate here, but at least to bring back the biblical phrase considered so important. I take this opportunity to thank you for your kind and courteous response. So now, as promised, I'll just add "without any reason" and that's it. Okay? --Mauro L. 82.84.27.140 (talk) 19:15, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
Job's Comforters
Should this article saY that Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar are sometimes known as Job's comforters, and this phrase has come into common English to refer to people who try to comfort but end up aggravating you? Vorbee (talk) 19:32, 1 October 2020 (UTC)