Talk:Bacha Coffee

Photo

I uploaded a photo to add to this article. File:Entrance to the Bacha Coffee boutique in Marrakech, Morocco In 2025.jpg V3MBBa (talk) 22:24, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

I will add it, but you need to use the WP:COIREQUEST for future edits. Not everyone watches the page and I only happened because I moved it from AfC. If you don't follow the process, your request could sit forever. --CNMall41 (talk) 15:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

Problematic entry

Upon research, the brand was founded in Singapore in 2019. No information in books or online can be found of a brand called “Bacha Coffee” prior to 2019.

All sources on this page are citing PR material provided by this Singaporean brand. There are no primary unbiased sources.

The brand name appropriates the Moroccan palace “Dar el Bacha”, built in 1910 as the the residence for Thami El Glaoui. There is information to be found whatsoever that a coffee shop called “Bacha Coffee” was ever run on his premise prior to the founding of this Singaporean company. Therefore, this entry appears to be a PR stunt rather than providing factual information. 185.223.152.18 (talk) 16:21, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

Likely why it says "traces its origins," not "founded in.." Also, looking at the source, it says the brand "was founded in 1910." If you have a reliable source that says something to the contrary it would be helpful. --CNMall41 (talk) 23:52, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

https://amp.scmp.com/lifestyle/food-drink/article/3240731/how-singapores-twg-tea-and-bacha-coffee-became-affordable-luxury-brands-asia-and-how-they-trade

This article highlights a claim that there was a coffee house inside the original palace. However, Bacha Coffee was founded in 2019, and their said coffee house in the palace was built in 2020. Suggesting the company was founded in 2019 and not in 1910, which refer to when the palace was built. 101.78.180.96 (talk) 09:33, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

This is all included on the current page. It is written about a company but incorporates the brand itself. It says it was re-opened as "Bacha Coffee in 2019," not that the company was founded in 2019. It says the brand "originated" and "traces its origins" to 1910 with context on how that is. Not sure what you are asking for but based on the available sourcing, the content on the page is written correctly. --CNMall41 (talk) 15:53, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

The wiki entry clearly states “Founded 1910” but evidently the brand was founded in 2019 and is part of the Singaporean holding company V3 Gourmet. In comparison, their brand TWG Tea is correctly stated to be founded in 2008 on its Wikipedia page, rather than “1837”, which their logo suggests.

The private residential palace (Dar el Bacha) which it “traces its origins” to and where it opened up an outlet in Marrakesh 2020 (today a museum), supposedly had a coffee house inside prior to WW2, but there are no primary sources to confirm this statement.

As per above, suggesting that the year “Founded” should be 2019. The year 1910 should clearly reflect to be the year when Dar el Bacha (house of the pasha) was built as a private residence for Thami El Glaoui, as already factually stated on the corresponding Wikipedia pages. 101.78.180.96 (talk) 16:42, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

I did a little clarifying as I see it could be confusing. Keep in mind we do not use Wikipedia a a reference upon itself. Also, TWG is not Bacha Coffee. I do need to ask at this point what your relationship is to Bacha Coffee or TWG Tea? Please read WP:COI and WP:PAID and make the appropriate disclosure if applicable. If you have suggested changes, you are free to propose them here on the talk page. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:06, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

I noticed that this entry seems to lean heavily on sources tied to Bacha Coffee or V3 Gourmet, which makes it feel more like a reflection of the company’s own marketing than a neutral overview.

I am just a scholar with no connection to Bacha Coffee, V3 Gourmet, their competitors, or the food and beverage world. I’m pointing this out because I think the entry could benefit from more objective presentation of the brands founding and history.

Not here to edit the page myself, but I wanted to share these thoughts to initiate some discussion. Thanks. 101.78.180.96 (talk) 14:14, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. Quite often, brands come to Wikipedia to promote themselves so wanted to ensure this was not the case with Bacha. If you have suggestions for the page, please feel free to make them here. --CNMall41 (talk) 15:41, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

Dar el Bacha was a private residence for a prominent politician and there is no historical basis for it to have been a café. This is clearly the brand playing on the fact the house was built in 1910 and that a coffee shop was set up inside of it c. 2019 or so now that the house is a public museum. It's not for us to rule over false advertising but clearly it is incorrect to say that the brand was created in 1910 Trivialpoursuite (talk) 19:43, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for creating an account. There seems to be confusion as to the original shop, the brand itself, and the new chain of stores associated with the brand. "Historical basis" is not relevant in this case. Neither is false advertising. Wikipedia relies on what reliable secondary sources say such as JustLuxe source which clearly states, "This iconic Moroccan brand was founded in 1910 at the Dar el Bacha, a hidden palace in the old city of Marrakech, Morocco." Based on the available sources, it looks like it was a brand, then discontinued, then revived under the old name. I will update the lead based on the sourcing to help avoid confusion, but the sources clearly state 1910 with the revival in 2019. If this is not the case, you will need to present a source to refute it as opposed to unilaterally changing it without supporting references. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:44, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

I think that's a circular reference, I.e a third party repeats a line provided by a company et voilà the third party can be used as a source. There is no record whatsoever of it having been a brand before 2019. Trivialpoursuite (talk) 23:50, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

In fact their own website is actually clear

https://bachacoffee.com/about-us

If you look at the timeline they state very clearly that it was the house that was built in 1910, closed for decades and reopened as a museum. The whole bit about famous people visiting relates to the house (which makes sense given who owned the house). Trivialpoursuite (talk) 23:56, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

By "circular", do you mean WP:CHURNALISM? It is written by one of the editors so I do not think it is just a reprinted press release. I had looked at the website for the company which says "Bacha Coffee" was founded in 1910 which is inline with the reference. I am assuming they are talking about the brand in that sentence as it later state it was closed for 60 years and then re-opened. I am not sure what you are asking for here but it would be accurate to say it has origins back to 1910 (based on several sources), but not "founded" in 1910. The brand goes back that far but the current company was formed in the last decade. --CNMall41 (talk) 01:08, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

disagree, the timeline on their website states that it was Dar El Bacha which was built in 1910 and then closed and reopened as a museum. Dar El Bacha is the house (see wikipedia entry) NOT the brand.

There's simply not a single shred of evidence anywhere beyond the brand's website (or other websites repeating the tale verbatim). No historian, no newspaper has ever reported on a famous coffee shop at Dar El Bacha frequented by all the luminaries cited in the website. I don't think wiki should be used as a tool by unscrupulous businesses to create "facts" about them. Trivialpoursuite (talk) 01:20, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

Please also consider the entry for TWG tea, another brand owned by the same parent company, which claims to have been established in 1837 (and labels its products as such) despite having been launched in 2018 Trivialpoursuite (talk) 13:51, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

Looking at this again, there seems to be confusion still on the company vs. brand. This is a recent source that says it was founded in 1910. Assuming it means the brand since the company was not launched until 2019 based on other sources. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:03, 16 February 2026 (UTC)