Talk:Alpha Sigma Phi

Misconduct at Kentucky deleted. Why?

I added, with various credible news sources and a link to a district court ruling, the details of the fraternity's misconduct at the University of Kentucky. It was immediately deleted it its entirety by Jax MN. Why? Nicmart (talk) 21:06, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

These items were valid, but enough time has passed so that items such as this, five years in the rear view mirror, are routinely moved into EFNs (Extended footnotes) against the specific chapter on the subordinate list of chapters. (No longer on the main article, a summary about Alpha Sigma Phi nationally.) I moved the Wisconsin, Kentucky and Arizona items to the chapter list. For the national page, these are relatively minor now, and the chapters have all new members, maybe by several generations. The embezzlement item is reasonably kept longer, as are any items where there was jail time. The 2025 event is reasonably kept here on the main page as it is so recent, and likewise well-documented. Jax MN (talk) 21:11, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Looking over this again, the Kentucky matter is really about Vinlove while the chapter's involvement was tangential to the story. Yes, the Vinlove matter is still being adjudicated. Had the chapter still been involved in an ongoing legal matter, it may have been reasonable to keep this on the main article, but it appears to me that the Alpha Sigma Phi house is no longer involved, and it, of course, remains active. Jax MN (talk) 21:19, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

You had to look over it again to justify your deletion, which you originally based on a technicality. Your history reveals that you have a special interest in Greek institutions, so maybe bias. This entire event is about a violent and racist incident at the frat house. The details include the legal response, but they hardly obviate the central issue of the frat members attacking the Black students. If you had a complaint then it should be have discussed since yours is not the final word. Nicmart (talk) Nicmart (talk) 21:55, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Your additional comments suggest that you have an interest in protecting the reputations of fraternities. Have you ever been involved in a fraternity organization, or with Sigma Phi in particular? Full disclosure, please. I have had no connection to any fraternity or sorority and never heard of his fraternity before today. I came upon the issue in relation to UK. Nicmart (talk) 21:58, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Nic, I fly through many edits per day, and wanted to ensure I quoted any dates accurately, THAT is the only reason I had to look it over again. No, I have no connection with Alpha Sigma Phi, nor with the University of Kentucky. I am a veteran volunteer editor specializing in the history of all collegiate and non-collegiate fraternal organizations and related pages, including universities.

My interest, rather than "protecting" their reputations, is simply to ensure a properly weighted and neutral treatment. When you say these incidents were "violent" and "racist", such terms are bandied about so commonly that it is important to review the facts instead of veering into a largely emotional response. To wit: "Someone was alleged to have bothered someone, maybe pushed them against a pillar", at a single chapter, is not noteworthy for a summary article about an entire national fraternity. But "Mr. Bill Johnson was adjudicated and incarcerated for a 1-year felony for the crime of hazing resulting in loss of limb on the person of Mr. Jim Franklin per the (insert newspaper citation)", indeed, that certainly may be notable. At least, it would be for about the space of one or two generations of members to graduate.

Remember, we assume good faith around here and rely on standards like the WP:MOS, Project consensus, and precedent. It's really easy to shout "bias" when you think you are speaking truth to power, or otherwise compelled to edit. Me, I follow precedent from thousands and thousands of edits that have passed review by other members of the Fraternity and Sorority Project. We realize that campus groups, whether fraternities or sports teams, change membership rapidly. We don't generally allow the sins of previous generations to continue to besmirch the reputation of the larger national, or even the chapters where a misconduct occurred. (Misconduct is rarely, rarely systemic, and therefore is not suitable for a summary article about a national society.) If properly cited, they fall off the national article when adjudication and / or probation is done, and the footnotes are allowed to drop off from a chapter line on the chapter list after another generation or two has passed. It seems fair to us. Otherwise, these articles would appear "non-encyclopedic" in their writing, with a clear bias AGAINST the society.

As for the Kentucky incident, the chapter continues as active, and the judicial matter, if still ongoing, has to do with false evidence presented by Officer Vinlove against team members. The chapter's suggested involvement was dismissed. Jax MN (talk) 22:38, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

Add sourced fact about headquarters naming.

Please add the following sentence to the end of this passage in the History section, right after "...Ralph F. Burns Leadership Institute for new members.":

"The Fraternity's national headquarters is also named the Ralph F. Burns Alpha Sigma Phi Headquarters in his honor."

Disclosure: I am a descendant of Ralph F. Burns.

Burnsandrewj (talk) 06:52, 28 August 2026 (UTC) Burnsandrewj (talk) 06:52, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

References

Clarify Ralph F. Burns Leadership Institute history

Please update the sentence about the Ralph F. Burns Leadership Institute in the History section to read: "The program, known as the Ralph F. Burns New Member program, began in 1997 and was renamed the Ralph F. Burns Leadership Institute in 2001. In 2006, Alpha Sigma Phi won the North American Interfraternity Conference's Laurel Wreath Award for the Institute." This replaces the existing sentence, which doesn't currently cite a specific start or rename date.

Disclosure: I am a descendant of Ralph F. Burns.

Burnsandrewj (talk) 07:03, 28 August 2026 (UTC) Burnsandrewj (talk) 07:03, 28 August 2026 (UTC)

References