Talk:Ahmed Mater

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Ahmed Mater. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101203063515/http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/wordintoart/word-into-art/artists/alziad.html to http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/wordintoart/word-into-art/artists/alziad.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:15, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Ahmed mater, magnetism installation, 2016, 02.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:37, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

== Concerns About the Current Introductory Section ==

I would like to raise several concerns regarding the current lead section of the Ahmed Mater article. As it stands, the introduction does not meet the encyclopedic standards expected for a figure of his cultural and artistic stature:

‘’‘1. Oversimplified and Shallow Language in the Opening’’’

The introductory language is overly simplified and lacks the conceptual depth expected in a serious encyclopedic entry. It omits major intellectual and artistic frameworks that define Ahmed Mater’s career. A more substantial and informative tone is needed to guide readers meaningfully.

‘’‘2. Omission of Major Institutional and Professional Milestones’’’

The lead section fails to mention Mater’s co-founding of ‘’‘Edge of Arabia’’’, a pioneering platform for contemporary Arab art, or his position as founding director of the ‘’‘Misk Art Institute’’’ in Riyadh. These roles are critical to understanding his influence as a cultural leader and should not be omitted from the summary.

‘’‘3. Lack of Geographic and Socio-Political Context’’’

Mater’s practice is deeply tied to the transformation of Saudi Arabia’s landscape and society. Landmark projects such as ‘’‘Desert of Pharan’’’, ‘’‘Magnetism’’’, and his recent land art initiatives in AlUla provide vital commentary on national identity and modernization. These aspects are currently missing.

‘’‘4. Undermining the Educational Role of Wikipedia’’’

Wikipedia is a public knowledge platform and must strive to educate. The current introduction offers little analytical framing or intellectual engagement with the subject’s work. This diminishes the educational value of the entry and does not serve readers seeking to understand Mater’s importance.

‘’‘5. Neglect of Arabic Sources and Local Contexts’’’

As someone familiar with Arabic-language journalism, scholarship, and cultural discourse, I see a clear gap in representation. Much of Mater’s critical reception, impact, and local visibility is documented in Arabic sources. These must be included to avoid skewing the article toward a narrow, Western-centric perspective.

I therefore suggest updating the lead section to reflect a more comprehensive and accurate overview, such as the revised version I shared earlier. Instead of removing what is not yet fully understood, I encourage editors to expand and improve it. By prematurely closing off or simplifying entries like this, we risk losing valuable knowledge that could support a broader audience—especially students from the Middle East and the Arab world—who are actively seeking accessible, high-quality information on regional cultural figures.

––– Arif11 (talk) 22:46, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

draft for collections section

reworking poorly researched collections section --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 01:13, 6 May 2025 (UTC) The British Museum, the Brooklyn Museum, Centre Pompidou, Dalloul Art Foundation, the Los Angeles County Museum of Art (LACMA), the Nadour Collection Smithsonian National Museum of Asian Art, and the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum,

References

CV material moved off main space

Exhaustive, badly referenced material moved off main space. Return only if properly sourced and relevant. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 20:49, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

Exhibitions

Ahmed Mater has presented solo exhibitions across major cities and institutions around the world. His work addresses themes of urban transformation, spiritual symbolism, and social change in Saudi Arabia. Selected solo exhibitions include:

• 2001 – Landing on the Earth's Surface, Al-Maseef Culture Club, Abha, Saudi Arabia.
• 2003 – X-Ray Project, 6th Saudi Malwan Contest Tour, Jeddah, Beirut, Sidon, and Manama (June 10 – September 25).
• 2004 – Standing in Front of You, King Khalid University, Abha, Saudi Arabia.
• 2004 – Chewing (Mudgah), Al-Miftaha Arts Village, Abha, Saudi Arabia.
• 2004 – The End, Al-Miftaha Arts Village, Abha (December 15 – 30).
• 2006 – Ahmed Mater Al Ziad Aseeri, Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia, London (May 12).
• 2006 – Son of Aseer, Al-Miftaha Arts Village, Abha (October 10 – 30).
• 2009 – Illumination, Art Space, Dubai (March 15 – April 15).
• 2010 – Ahmed Mater, The Vinyl Factory Gallery, London (October 11 – 31).
• 2013 – 100 Found Objects, Sharjah Art Foundation, Sharjah, UAE.
• 2016 – Symbolic Cities: The Work of Ahmed Mater, Arthur M. Sackler Gallery, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, D.C., USA.
• 2016 – Evolution of Man, Standing Rock, North Dakota, USA.
• 2017 – Mitochondria: Powerhouses, GALLERIA CONTINUA, San Gimignano, Italy (September 23, 2017 – January 7, 2018).
• 2017–2018 – Ahmed Mater: Mecca Journeys, Brooklyn Museum, New York City (December 1, 2017 – April 8, 2018).
• 2018–2019 – Stand in the Pathway and See, GALLERIA CONTINUA, Les Moulins, France (October 14, 2018 – June 2, 2019).
• 2023 – Ashab Al-Lal, Bin Matar House, Al Muharraq, Bahrain.
• 2024 – Ahmed Mater: Chronicles, Christie’s, London (July 17 – August 22, 2024).
• 2025 – Ahmed Mater: Antenna, UCCA Edge, Shanghai, China (March 8 – July 8, 2025).

Monographs and publications

• 2006 – Word into Art: Artists of the Modern Middle East, British Museum Press. Published on the occasion of an exhibition at the British Museum highlighting modern Middle Eastern artists.

• 2009 – ADACH Platform for Visual Arts in Venice, curated by Catherine David, presented during the 53rd Venice Biennale.

• 2009 – New Vision: Arab Contemporary Art in the 21st Century, Thames & Hudson. A major survey of contemporary Arab artists.

• 2010 – Art of the Middle East: Modern and Contemporary Art of the Arab World and Iran, Merrell Publishers.

• 2010 – Ahmed Mater, Booth-Clibborn Editions. A comprehensive monograph exploring Mater’s key projects.

• 2012 – Edge of Arabia: Contemporary Art from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Booth-Clibborn Editions.

• 2012 – Hajj: Journey to the Heart of Islam, British Museum Press. Edited by Venetia Porter.

• 2015 – Sculptures of Jeddah: Twentieth-Century Sculpture in the Arabian Peninsula, Booth-Clibborn Editions. A documentation of the public art landscape in Jeddah.

• 2016 – Desert of Pharan: Unofficial Histories Behind the Mass Expansion of Mecca, Lars Müller Publishers. A photographic and research-based exploration of Mecca’s urban transformation.

• 2024 – Ahmed Mater: Chronicles. Published in conjunction with his mid-career retrospective at Christie’s London (July–August 2024), the book presents over 100 works spanning two decades.

• Forthcoming, 2025 – Prognosis: Saudi Arabia. A forthcoming publication that reflects on more than two decades of artistic production and social change in Saudi Arabia and the wider region. *Prognosis* is currently in development and will be published by Booth-Clibborn Editions.

References

Edits to introductory matter

I have made some recent edits to the article, primarily based on Arif11's comments, which I found very convincing and insightful. I feel these changes are important ones \ to expand the scope of the discussion around this important figure.

I believe it’s essential that scholars and students visiting this page can learn about him in a manner similar to how they quickly understand an artist like Damien Hirst from his own Wikipedia entry. My goal was to ensure that this artist’s contributions to contemporary art and his cultural significance are adequately highlighted and accessible to a broad audience.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Profarthist (talk • contribs)

Please sign your posts. I've signed this one for you, but moving forward, you need to add a signature. Netherzone (talk) 19:47, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

Reverting to the previous portrait of the artist

I reverted back to the main photo because, as I have been researching Dr. Mater for some time and recently visited his city of Abha in Aseer, I discovered that this photo resonates strongly with local Aseeri culture and links the artist to that region. The influence of Aseeri art, architecture, and culture is prominent throughout his work.

I believe keeping this particular image as the lead for the article is respectful of Aseeri culture and the artist. It's not obvious to Westerners or those not familiar with Aseeri culture at first glance but this is a particularly significant portrait of the artist.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Profarthist (talk • contribs)

I have signed another of your posts for you, please sign your posts in the future. The image is an old one (with unclear copyright licensing), and for BLP's it' recommended that a recent photo is used. Netherzone (talk) 19:57, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

The two images previously nominated for deletion have now been re-uploaded in their original form with proper licensing procedures:

1. One of the images was taken by me personally in 2004 and had been available on Wikimedia Commons for many years without any objection—until yesterday. The sudden nomination for deletion after such a long time raises concerns and questions about the consistency of the process. It also highlights the need for more constructive dialogue rather than adversarial oversight. Contributors should be given a clear and collaborative pathway to understand how to establish image rights, improve documentation, or re-upload files correctly.

2. For the more recent image, the original photographer was contacted and has already submitted a formal permission email to permissions-commons@wikimedia.org.

I hope this clarifies the copyright and licensing status of both images. Their continued availability now rests with the editorial team and whether there is a genuine interest in rebuilding the Ahmed Mater article in good faith.

Thank you.

— Arif11 Arif11 (talk) 07:56, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

Additional edits to the career section

I have made additional changes to the career section by adding some historically significant references. Additionally, I moved the photograph of 'Magnetism' to this section, where the artwork is being described, which I believe makes more sense contextually.

I also restored the photographer's credit, which appeared in a previous version but was later removed. I think this credit is important for proper attribution.

The career section deserves more attention but I will have to fill in additional details and references at a later date.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Profarthist (talk • contribs)

Please sign your posts, this is the third request that you do so. The article is now littered again with unsourced content, use of poor quality sources like the HuffPo, a self-published book, fragments of code littered in the article. Please make edit requests here so that other more experienced editors can review them first. Netherzone (talk) 20:02, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion:

• AHMED MATER SAUDIARABIA 2004.jpg
• Ahmed Mater-2025-04-19-23-39-24.jpg

You can see the reasons for deletion at the file description pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:51, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

Statement from User:Arif11 regarding the Ahmed Mater article

Dear Wikipedia editors,

My name is Arif Alnomay (Wikipedia user: Arif11). I would like to formally clarify my position regarding my previous involvement with the article on artist Ahmed Mater.

Over the past decade, I have conducted extensive academic research on Ahmed Mater’s work and received his verbal consent several years ago to document parts of his career on Wikipedia. My sole intention was to contribute culturally accurate, well-sourced content to the encyclopedia. I have never received any payment for my contributions. However, I now realize that some of my actions—such as creating an account and email under his name to help manage edits and uploads—may have unintentionally conflicted with Wikipedia’s conflict of interest guidelines, despite being done in good faith.

Unfortunately, recent discussions around this article have shifted from constructive dialogue to suspicion and procedural disputes that no longer serve the article, the artist, or the readers. The current version of the article lacks cohesion, context, and cultural depth. It has been reduced to a fragmented list of collections, which does not represent a meaningful or professional biography of the artist.

Therefore, I am announcing my complete withdrawal from any future edits or involvement with the article. I respectfully recommend that the article be restarted as a neutral stub, based solely on reliable third-party sources, and developed further by independent editors without direct involvement from me.

If needed, I am willing to reach out to Ahmed Mater directly to request a written statement confirming that my previous involvement was voluntary, unpaid, and done with his awareness. I am also open to coordinating a direct meeting or call with the artist, in the presence of trusted Wikipedia community members, to verify or clarify information.

Furthermore, if necessary, I am prepared to help arrange the participation of either the artist himself or an officially designated representative from his studio's media team to confirm key information or clarify any relevant details—under their full responsibility.

Please let me know if there is a preferred way to submit such documentation or if additional steps are required on my part.

Thank you for your understanding.

Sincerely, Arif Alnomay 10 May 2025 Arif11 (talk) 07:47, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

Request to Restore Image

Dear administrators,

I am following up on the previously deleted image and have received confirmation from Wikimedia Commons regarding permission.

Please find below the file now available under the appropriate license and attribution:

Ahmed Mater in 2004, pictured wearing elements of the traditional attire from the Asir region in southern Saudi Arabia.

This image was taken by Arif Al-Nomay and is released under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International license (CC BY-SA 4.0). Please proceed with re-adding it to the article infobox or relevant section.

Thank you. — Arif11 (talk) 14:57, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

@Arif11, this is problematic on so many levels. Firstly you claim that you are not a close associate of Ahmed Mater, yet you now are claiming that you shot this photo in 2004. Then you created his article in 2010. It is now 2025, and there is strong off-wiki evidence and on-wiki evidence, that you have an indisputable Conflict of Interest WP:COI with Ahmed Mater. Secondly, as an editor with a COI, you should not be editing the article directly. Thirdly, there is no indication that a ticket was submitted and resolve on Commons. The previous version was deleted from Commons as a copyright violation. Netherzone (talk) 20:53, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=Ahmed+mater&title=Special:MediaSearch&type=image

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=Ahmed+mater&title=Special:MediaSearch&type=image Arif11 (talk) 22:52, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

To clarify, the image in question (“AHMED MATER SAUDIARABIA 2004.jpg”) was submitted to Wikimedia Commons with a formal permission statement. I have already received confirmation via email from the Wikimedia permissions team acknowledging and approving the license for this photo.

I genuinely believe there is no issue here. In fact, I re-uploaded an improved version of the image because I was able to locate the original file from 2004, ensuring better quality and historical accuracy.

Please let me know if any further clarification is needed.

Kind regards,

Arif11 Arif11 (talk) 22:58, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Re: [Ticket#2025050910009802] permission to release this image under the Creative Commons Arif11 (talk) 15:28, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

Re: [Ticket#2025050910009802] permission to release this image under the Creative Commons Arif11 (talk) 15:28, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

Conflict of interest

See COIN discussion for more information: Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#Ahmed Mater, and also several entries on User talk:Arif11.

All user(s) with the conflict of interest should, as advised on WP's guidelines for COI editors, that they should refrain from directly editing the articles with which they are connected, and should place a disclosure notice on their user page. Please read the guidelines for more information on how to do this. Instead of editing the article directly, connected editors need to use the Edit Request system. Please read: WP:EDITREQ, and for ease you may use the "Edit Request Wizard" tool found here Wikipedia:Edit Request Wizard so that unconnected editors can evaluate suggested edits, and either make the edits, or not. Thank you for complying in the future. Netherzone (talk) 15:22, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification and guidance.

I would like to reaffirm that I fully respect and follow Wikipedia’s policies, and I have previously stated that I will not directly edit the Ahmed Mater article or interfere with its content. My recent activity has been limited to following up on two deleted images:

The first image is a portrait I personally took some time ago during my early research on the artist. I re-uploaded it with the appropriate permissions and under a license that aligns with Wikipedia’s free content requirements.

The second image was taken by a different photographer. I reached out to them directly and asked that they provide a release under an appropriate license so the image can be used in accordance with Wikipedia’s policies. If accepted, I hope it can be restored to the article.

Additionally, I have contacted Ahmed Mater’s studio to request whether an official representative can assist editors by providing reliable sources and references to help build a more balanced and professional article. My aim is to step away from past involvement and instead support a transparent, editorially sound process.

I am currently dedicating time each day to learning how Wikipedia works, as many policies and systems have changed since I was last active. I apologize for any past missteps and appreciate your guidance as I work to better understand and follow Wikipedia’s current standards.

51.252.186.171 (talk) 21:16, 17 May 2025 (UTC)