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Talk:1931 Lublin tornado

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Latest comment: 2 months ago by Aviationwikiflight in topic F4 or F5 rating?

F4 or F5 rating?

[edit]

@KremowyPL, the sources cited do not support the affirmation of an "F4/F5" rating:

  • (Taszarek & Brooks 2015): "The deadliest reported tornado in the twentieth century in Poland was on 20 July 1931 in Lublin city, which was estimated to be F4. [...] Some sources (Gumiński 1936) estimated a wind speed that could be associated with F5 intensity; however, the information available on this event is insufficient and, in its current state, does not allow confirmation of this assessment."
  • (Taszarek & Gromadzki 2017): "Although winds destroyed 50-cm-thick brick walls, overturned railway wagons (some of them were moved a few meters away from the rail), overthrew industrial chimneys and bent iron structures, this estimate is highly uncertain since no typical F5 damage was reported. Instead, F4 damage was plausible (Fig. B1). [...] F4 damage due to tornado on 20 Jul 1931."

Aviationwikiflight (talk) 12:09, 8 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

@KremowyPL. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 19:56, 8 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
@KremowyPL, per the Rocznik Lubelski issue, page 137 notes (I've underline and bolded specific parts):

Siła wiatru miała według niego zawierać się w przedziale 111–145 m/s (tj. 399,6–522 km/h; ciśnienie dynamiczne: 765–1314 kg/m2 ) 38, co odpowiadałoby klasie F4–F5, a nawet suplementarnej, mało prawdopodobnej klasie F6 w skali Fujity39 . W świetle dzisiejszej wiedzy liczby te wymagają weryfikacji, gdyż wskazany w okresie międzywojennym zakres był znacznie zawyżony. Górna granica siły wiatru przekraczałaby bowiem nawet najwyższą zmierzoną przez radar Dopplera wartość 281–321 mph (452–517 km/h) zanotowaną w wirze tornada z Oklahoma City w 1999 r. [...] Trąba powietrzna z 20 lipca 1931 r. nie przybrała z pewnością siły równej klasie F6, co sugerują górne wartości przedstawione w raporcie z 1936 r. W miejscu pojawienia się żywiołu o takiej mocy infrastruktura miejska niemal przestałaby istnieć. Po uważnym zapoznaniu się z zawartością prasy i dokumentów oraz z archiwalnymi fotografiami można raczej dojść do wniosku, iż prędkość wiatru mieściła się w przedziale F3–F443 (ze wskazaniem na tę drugą wartość). Te kategorie lepiej oddają intensywność zjawiska. Stan badań nie pozwala jednak klarownie orzec, czy lubelska trąba istotnie była najsilniejszą w historii Polski. Nadużyciem nie jest natomiast klasyfikowanie jej w ścisłej czołówce pod tym względem.

[According to him, the wind force was supposed to be in the range of 111–145 m/s (i.e., 399.6–522 km/h; dynamic pressure: 765–1314 kg/m2)38, which would correspond to a class F4–F5, or even the additional, unlikely class F6 on the Fujita scale.39 In light of today's knowledge, these numbers require verification, as the range indicated in the interwar period was significantly overstated. The upper limit of the wind force would exceed even the highest Doppler radar value of 281–321 mph (452–517 km/h) recorded in the vortex of the Oklahoma City tornado in 1999. [...] The tornado of July 20, 1931, certainly did not reach the strength of a class F6, as suggested by the upper limits presented in the 1936 report. In the presence of a force of such magnitude, urban infrastructure would have practically ceased to exist. After carefully examining press reports, documents, and archival photographs, one can conclude that the wind speed was in the F3–F443 range (with a preference for the latter). These categories better reflect the intensity of the phenomenon. However, the state of research does not allow for a clear statement as to whether the Lublin tornado was indeed the strongest in Polish history. However, it is not an exaggeration to classify it as one of the top in this regard.] Aviationwikiflight (talk) 07:30, 16 May 2026 (UTC)Reply
@KremowyPL. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 19:22, 8 June 2026 (UTC)Reply