Talk:Ukrainian language

Kherson and other oblasts

If Kherson is here why are the other occupied oblasts such as Zaporizhzhia, Luhansk and Donetsk not on here? Also would it be better to put Kherson, Crimea and the other oblasts as well as Prudentopolis in a separate section from Ukraine and Transnistria because they are not independent states. 2600:387:C:7212:0:0:0:5 (talk) 02:18, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

Yes why is only Kherson oblast on there as an occupied oblast, what about Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk and Luhansk Theodrik (talk) 04:36, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

i got rid of Kherson from the info box considering russians aren't occupying it—blindlynx 22:20, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 December 2025

Change: In 1811, by order of the Russian government, the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy was closed.

To: In 1817, the Synod of the Russian Empire issued a decree to close the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy. Internetyev (talk) 23:58, 19 December 2025 (UTC)

 Done Theeverywhereperson (talk here) 07:52, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

Thank you! 09:56, 21 December 2025 (UTC) Internetyev (talk) 09:56, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

Sample text

Does the Ukrainian sample text need to be all in bold and italics? I've never seen it formatted that way anywhere else. Arkadios 200 (talk) 18:27, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

History of the spoken language

The article is protected, and I don't have 500 edits yet. So, I'll provide the materials for those users who can add this information. For the section "Rusʹ and the Kingdom of Ruthenia":
George Y. Shevelov dates the Proto-Ukrainian period to the sixth through the mid-eleventh century and Old Ukrainian to the mid-eleventh through the late fourteenth century; in his account, the Old Ukrainian period belongs to the time of the oldest extant Rus' texts and broadly coincides with the rise and fall of Kyivan Rus'.)
Source: Shevelov, George Y. “Ukrainian language.” Internet Encyclopedia of Ukraine. Canadian Institute of Ukrainian Studies. Originally published in Encyclopedia of Ukraine, vol. 5, 1993.
Hryhorii Pivtorak similarly argues that the late twelfth century may be conditionally regarded as the completion of the formation of the main phonetic and phonological features of Ukrainian as an independent language system, and that many such features are attested in eleventh- to thirteenth-century written monuments from Southern Rus'.)
Source: Pivtorak, Hryhorii P. “Ukrainska mova / Українська мова.” Encyclopedia of Modern Ukraine. Institute of Encyclopedic Research of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine; Shevchenko Scientific Society, 2019. Lanamy (talk) 19:26, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

Shevelov refers to phonological developments. In general "Old Ukrainian" refers to the southern dialects of Ruthenian. Mellk (talk) 19:35, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that Shevelov should be used specifically for phonological periodization. For the written/literary aspect, however, Getka and Moisiienko may be relevant. This is not a random source: it is a 2024 academic monograph published by University of Warsaw Press, marked by the publisher as a scholarly work, open access, with DOI, 504 pages. Joanna Getka is a professor at the University of Warsaw whose fields include historical and comparative linguistics, and Viktor Moisiienko is a Ukrainian historical linguist and corresponding member of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine.

The book’s main point relevant here is that early Rusʹ-Ukrainian / Old Ukrainian written and literary usage can be discussed from the 11th century, not as a fully modern standardized language, but as an early written tradition whose features later contributed to the Ukrainian literary norm. The publisher’s description says that the analysed 11th-century and later texts record features of Ukrainian that had formed earlier and later became the basis of the literary norm.
Link to this source written in two languages: Polish and Ukrainian (as well as its title):
Joanna Getka and Viktor Moisiienko, Na początku było Słowo… Od standardu mówionego do normy literackiej: Zarys genezy ukraińskiego języka literackiego [In the Beginning Was the Word… From Spoken Standard to Literary Norm: An Outline of the Origin of the Ukrainian Literary Language], University of Warsaw Press, Warsaw, 2024. https://doi.org/10.31338/uw.9788323567011 Lanamy (talk) 20:27, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

Your proposed text does not address this, though. Simply stating that the "Proto-Ukrainian period" is dated from the 6th to mid-11th century and "Old Ukrainian" from the mid-11th to late 14th century is extremely misleading. This is specifically Shevelov's terminology and not generally used. Not to mention that the Slavic languages still belonged to a single dialect continuum around the year 1000. Your second source also notes that it is attempting to challenge the dominate view (that there was a single East Slavic language) so the other issue is WP:NPOV (giving undue weight to minority views). Mellk (talk) 20:42, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

Absolutely nothing personal. But in order to better understand what your replies to me are motivated by, I had to carefully study your personal discussion page and the archives of previous pages. After reviewing them, everything became clear to me. I see absolutely no point in presenting an entire body of academic scholarly evidence dating back to the beginning of the 20th century, as that would simply be a waste of time here. Whoever needs it can easily find it themselves on the "Ukrainian language" page in the Ukrainian Wikipedia. Lanamy (talk) 15:46, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

Every accusation is a confession, after all. Mellk (talk) 16:22, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

I don’t think the conclusions are correct in this case. This is like comparing apples and oranges. Lanamy (talk) 21:49, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

References

any mention of the Ukraine or Ruthenia needs a map

"Ukrainian culture and language flourished in the sixteenth and first half of the 17th century, when Ukraine was part of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth," but that's less than half of the Ukraine as it was understood in the Russian Empire, Ruthenia being the inland river valleys NOT including the coast of the Black Sea which was Crimean Tatar, and not extending much east of Dnipr. Of seaports, only Kherson was briefly held by the Rus on and off, and sometimes the river ports of Zaporozhye or Nikolaev, and never the area that is now Donestsk, Kharkov, Lugansk or Crimea. Any "Ukrainian culture and language" only creeps into these areas with Russian rule under Catherine the Great over 130 years AFTER Zaporozhye Cossacks defy the Crimean Tatars and Ottomans, request to join the Russian Empire in mid 17th century. Its not until the 1780s that Catherine takes the Black Sea coast and Cossacks begin to settle in these areas under Russia. It's at this time that various pidgin languages begin to emerge (Surzhyk) but notably not in Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk which speak standard Russian to this day. In Kherson, Odessa and Crimea, Ukrainian terms only enter as part of Soviet Ukrainization or possibly usage from invaders (Kaiser Wilhelm 1917 and the Southern Russia intervention 1918-19, Hitler 1941). ~2026-34962-11 (talk) 00:40, 20 June 2026 (UTC)

Not first(native) language of majority Ukrainians

most Ukrainians above 40 was taught Russian at school and home ~2026-40526-81 (talk) 23:39, 18 July 2026 (UTC)

This isn't supported by sources—blindlynx 15:15, 20 July 2026 (UTC)