Talk:Kurdish language

Minor mistake

Hi the writing system is actully called abjad script not sorni nor perso-arabic Hogirkurdish15 (talk) 06:58, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

That's like saying that what Greek is written in is called an "alphabet script", not "Greek". It's an abjad that's called Sorani or Perso-Arabic. Largoplazo (talk) 11:57, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Incorrect acctualy Hogirkurdish15 (talk) 19:41, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

It seems you need to look up Abjad. Largoplazo (talk) 20:44, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

if abjed means alphabet then why do arabs say ألفابت الابجدية abjed alphabet? Wouldn't that be stupid to say alphabet alphabet? Also kurds and persians also say abjed alphabet too Hogirkurdish15 (talk) 01:19, 3 April 2026 (UTC)

Does Arabic say that? Then I'm supposing it's to distinguish the two orders used for their alphabet: hija'i and abjadi. Anyway, our article is written in English, not Arabic. Largoplazo (talk) 22:04, 3 April 2026 (UTC)

yes but it should say abjed alphabet not arabic tho👀 Hogirkurdish15 (talk) 13:27, 10 May 2026 (UTC)

Now it should be called "abjed alphabet"? I think you have to make up your mind whether you think being an abjad makes it an "abjad alphabet" or disqualifies it from being an alphabet. If it is an "abjed alphabet", then it's an alphabet, and there's nothing wrong with calling it an alphabet, instead of unnecessarily stretching for a more specific term that most readers won't know. Largoplazo (talk) 14:06, 10 May 2026 (UTC)

oh okay i was just trying to be more specific 👀 Hogirkurdish15 (talk) 14:40, 10 May 2026 (UTC)

Unable to edit this page

I was going to add a Wikilink to this article, but was unable to do so because it seems to be locked from editing. Please fix this ridiculous situation! 98.123.38.211 (talk) 22:33, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

it's meant to be this way. the article is protected since people grief it. Krqftan (talk) 13:24, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Protection policy. Largoplazo (talk) 13:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 November 2024

Change the language map legend by
Removing the "and Laki" in the colour denoting Xwarini and write "Gorani[/Hewrami] is included.", and remove Gorani from the cplour denoting Dimli.
Thanks in advance. Perz00 (talk) 17:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: no valid reason was given for the proposed change and deletion. M.Bitton (talk) 01:45, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

that's what the original map's file states, it's also what's represented by the map itself. Perz00 (talk) 16:40, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 December 2024

Please change reference :1:

<ref name=":1">Gernot Windfuhr, ed., 2009. ''The Iranian Languages''.  Routledge.</ref>{{Page needed|date=November 2022}}

to:

<ref name="Windfuhr2009">{{Cite book |title=The Iranian Languages |publisher=[[Routledge]] |year=2009 |editor-last=Windfuhr |editor-first=Gernot |edition=1st |location=London |language=en-GB |oclc=822565468 |ol=24561295M}}</ref>{{rp|p=587}}

as well as:

<ref name=":1" />{{page needed|date=December 2014}}

to:

<ref name="Windfuhr2009" />{{rp|p=589}}

Adds page numbers (which I checked and confirmed) and expands the citation to use the {{Cite book}} template. 83.28.247.254 (talk) 16:21, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done cyberdog958^Talk 00:27, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 January 2025

On the page it says 26M kurdish speakers??? This is not true, there are 50M kurds in total, and atleast 45M+ of them can speak fluent Kurdish. Please change this. 86.5.90.150 (talk) 15:44, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Largoplazo (talk) 17:29, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 February 2026

This LLM-generated text has been collapsed and should be excluded from assessments of consensus.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Edit request: Revise History section – remove or qualify uncorroborated claims, prioritize manuscript evidence (WP:RS, WP:UNDUE, WP:VER, WP:NPOV)

The History section opens with two paragraphs presenting exceptional claims about early Kurdish texts that lack strong reliable secondary sourcing or corroboration, giving them undue prominence (WP:UNDUE) relative to the peer-reviewed Cambridge History of the Kurds reference (citation [53]), which is based on an extant manuscript. This risks violating WP:RS (over-reliance on primary/outdated sources for exceptional claims), WP:VER (no independent verification), and WP:NPOV (not neutrally presenting scholarly consensus).

Current text (relevant excerpt): "During his stay in Damascus, historian Ibn Wahshiyya came across two books on agriculture written in Kurdish, one on the culture of the vine and the palm tree, and the other on water and the means of finding it out in unknown ground. He translated both from Kurdish into Arabic in the early 9th century AD.[51]

Among the earliest Kurdish religious texts is the Yazidi Black Book, the sacred book of Yazidi faith. It is considered to have been authored sometime in the 13th century AD by Hassan bin Adi (b. 1195 AD), the great-grandnephew of Sheikh Adi ibn Musafir (d. 1162), the founder of the faith. It contains the Yazidi account of the creation of the world, the origin of man, the story of Adam and Eve and the major prohibitions of the faith.[52]

According to The Cambridge History of the Kurds, "the first proper 'text'" written in Kurdish is a short Christian prayer. It was written in Armenian characters, and dates from the fifteenth century.[53]"

Proposed changes:

1. **Remove the Ibn Wahshiyya paragraph** (the first one quoted above).

  - Proposed: Delete entirely.
  - Reason: Citation [51] is a 1806 translation of a primary source (Ibn Wahshiyya's self-reported claim in Shawq al-Mustaham). No manuscripts or independent evidence of these "Kurdish books" exist. Modern scholarship (e.g., Hämeen-Anttila 2006, The Last Pagans of Iraq, Brill) views his works as often pseudepigraphic, exaggerated, or unreliable. The Cambridge History mentions this only as a controversial reference, not verified evidence. Presenting it as fact gives undue weight to an uncorroborated anecdote (WP:UNDUE) and uses a primary source for an exceptional claim without secondary support (WP:RS/WP:PRIMARY).

2. **Remove the Yazidi Black Book paragraph** (the second one quoted above).

  - Proposed: Delete entirely. (Preferred for simplicity and policy compliance.)
  - Alternative if retention desired: Replace with a qualified version: "The Yazidi Black Book (Mishefa Reş) is a text associated with Yazidi traditions, but modern scholarship regards it as a late compilation (likely 19th–20th century) based on oral sources rather than an authentic medieval written work, with questions about its origins as a possible forgery or non-Yazidi compilation.[new citation]"
  - Reason: Citation [52] (Guest 1987) is outdated. Scholarly consensus (e.g., Encyclopædia Iranica "Jelwa, Ketāb al-" and "Yazidis" entries; Kreyenbroek's studies; Omarkhali's research) holds that the Black Book (and companion Kitêba Cilwe) are late 19th–early 20th-century texts, likely compiled or forged by outsiders using oral traditions. Yazidism traditionally prohibits writing sacred texts, and no early manuscripts support a 13th-century authorship by Hassan bin Adi. Stating this as an "earliest Kurdish religious text" with specific authorship/date contradicts reliable sources and violates WP:NPOV/WP:VER.

3. **Retain and prioritize the Cambridge reference** (as the reliable opening):

  - Keep: "According to The Cambridge History of the Kurds, "the first proper 'text'" written in Kurdish is a short Christian prayer. It was written in Armenian characters, and dates from the fifteenth century.[53]"
  - Reason: This is a high-quality tertiary/secondary source (Cambridge University Press, 2021) citing a real, extant manuscript (Armenian characters, copied 1430–1446). It represents consensus on the earliest attested "proper" written Kurdish text.

Resulting revised opening after removals: "According to The Cambridge History of the Kurds, "the first proper 'text'" written in Kurdish is a short Christian prayer. It was written in Armenian characters, and dates from the fifteenth century.[53]

From the 15th to 17th centuries, classical Kurdish poets and writers developed a literary language. ..."

This prioritizes manuscript-based evidence over self-reported claims, improves neutrality, and aligns with scholarly consensus. If partial qualification is preferred over full removal, the alternatives above could be used.

Suggested new citations to add if qualifying: - Hämeen-Anttila, Jaakko (2006). The Last Pagans of Iraq: Ibn Waḥshiyya and His Nabatean Agriculture. Brill. (for Ibn Wahshiyya) - Encyclopædia Iranica: "Jelwa, Ketāb al-" (for Black Book origins and late discovery/compilation) - Kreyenbroek, Philip G. (various works, e.g., on Yazidi oral traditions)

Thanks for considering. IlberOCelalS (talk) 08:38, 11 February 2026 (UTC)

Not done: your request appears to have been generated by a large language model. Day Creature (talk) 15:03, 11 February 2026 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 June 2026

Can you Perso-Arabic not Perso-Arabic script pls? ~2026-36959-93 (talk) 05:00, 28 June 2026 (UTC)

 Not done: No reason was given for the link to be piped, and the existing version seems fine. Day Creature (talk) 21:20, 28 June 2026 (UTC)

Edit request 27 July 2026

Description of suggested change:

Currently history section is confusing and contradictionary. Though first Kurdish text is provided from Cambridge History of Kurds, medieval claims which are not supported with physical copies are mentioned before real surviving text. Presenting disputed medieval claims or traditional attributions as facts over physical evidence that is from a respected source is degrading wikipedia standard in this article.

Diff:

−

During his stay in [[Damascus]], historian [[Ibn Wahshiyya]] came across two books on agriculture written in Kurdish, one on the culture of the vine and the palm tree, and the other on water and the means of finding it out in unknown ground. He translated both from Kurdish into Arabic in the early 9th century AD.Among the earliest Kurdish religious texts is the ''[[Yazidi Black Book]]'', the sacred book of [[Yazidi]] faith. It is considered to have been authored sometime in the 13th century AD by ''Hassan bin Adi'' (b. 1195 AD), the great-grandnephew of Sheikh Adi ibn Musafir (d. 1162), the founder of the faith. It contains the Yazidi account of the creation of the world, the origin of man, the story of [[Adam]] and [[Eve]] and the major prohibitions of the faith. According to ''The Cambridge History of the Kurds'', "the first proper 'text<span style="padding-right:.15em;">'</span>" written in Kurdish is a short Christian prayer. It was written in Armenian characters, and dates from the fifteenth century. From the 15th to 17th centuries, classical Kurdish poets and writers developed a literary language. The most notable classical Kurdish poets from this period were [[Ali Hariri]], [[Ahmad Khani]], [[Malaye Jaziri]] and [[Faqi Tayran]].

+

Earliest surviving text in Kurdish language is a short Christian prayer. It was written in Armenian characters, and dates from the fifteenth century.There are mentions of earlier texts whose originals did not survive and also remain unverified or disputed in modern scholarship. For instance, the 10th-century writer Ibn Wahshiyya claimed to have translated two Kurdish agricultural texts into Arabic in the early 9th century, though historians generally view these attributions as pseudepigraphic. Similarly, while traditional accounts attribute the Mışefê Reş (Yazidi Black Book) to Hassan bin Adi in the 13th century, academic consensus dates the redaction of its surviving manuscripts to the late 19th or early 20th century.From the 15th to 17th centuries, classical Kurdish poets and writers developed a literary language. The most notable classical Kurdish poets from this period were [[Ali Hariri]], [[Ahmad Khani]], [[Malaye Jaziri]] and [[Faqi Tayran]].

IlberOCelalS (talk) 16:11, 27 July 2026 (UTC)

Edit request 29 July 2026

Description of suggested change:

Minorsky's overstatement that Kurdish is descended from Median is not accepted in modern academia. I added current linguistic point of view but kept Minorsky's hypothesis still in text as historical assessment. Kurdish as descendant of the Median language survives mainly in Kurdish nationalist historiography and popular writing not in peer reviewed journals.

Diff:

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Windfuhr identified Kurdish dialects as [[Parthian language|Parthian]], albeit with a [[Median language|Median]] substratum. Windfuhr and [[Richard N. Frye|Frye]] assume an eastern origin for Kurdish and consider it as related to eastern and central Iranian dialects. [[Vladimir Minorsky]] regarded Kurdish as a descendant of the Median language, describing it as an "ancient and powerful basic language." He argued that this origin explains why the fundamental structural and lexical characteristics of Kurdish are preserved in all dialects despite their wide geographical distribution, reflecting a shared historical foundation.

+

According to linguist Gernot Windfuhr, Kurdish dialects are affiliated with [[Parthian language|Parthian]], though they may retain a [[Median language|Median]] substratum. Windfuhr and [[Richard N. Frye|Frye]] have posited an eastern origin for Kurdish, relating it to eastern and central Iranian dialects. [[Vladimir Minorsky]] argued that Kurdish descends from the Median language, describing it as an "ancient and powerful basic language" and suggesting that this origin accounts for the preservation of fundamental structural and lexical characteristics across Kurdish dialects despite their wide geographical distribution. This Median descent hypothesis, however, has been disputed by later scholars; [[Garnik Asatrian]] has noted that Kurdish is not demonstrably closer to Median than other North Western languages — Baluchi, Talishi, South Caspian, Zaza, Gurani, etc., and that the lack of substantial attested Median material makes such a direct genetic link difficult to establish.

IlberOCelalS (talk) 10:25, 29 July 2026 (UTC)