Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 April 21

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April 21

Usage of a n English proverb

Please let me know the actual usage of " NO USE CRYING OVER SPILT MILK"

It means there's no point being upset about something that has already happened. Storeye 12:21, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

<email removed>

Has anyone notice that <dict.org> is offline – has been for perhaps several days?

More specifically, it means there is no point being upset at something unimportant that has already happened. StuRat 14:38, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia Puzzle Globe

What is the name of every (visible) symbol on the Wikipedia puzzle globe? --Candy-Panda 09:34, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

This has been raised before but I forget the answer. There is a page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Logos_and_slogans) that has details about the Wikipedia globe and also the history of the current logo's creation. After a quick look here (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Final_logo_variants/Nohat) shows you some details. Of the simples I can see there is Omega (the one right below the missing jigsaw piece...the rest I have no idea!! ny156uk 15:04, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

It's the opening sound of "Wikipedia" in various languages, although I can't remember what they are other than the Omega (with an apostrophe in front of it, presumably to give the correct pronunciation), and (in in the piece above the W) the Japanese katakana symbols pronounced "wi". Confusing Manifestation 04:31, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Strangely, the one to the right of the W is an Arabic yāʼ, not a wāw. Adam Bishop 07:08, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure? I can't see a loop. —Tamfang 20:17, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Er, yes, I was thinking backwards – the /w/ ought to have a loop. —Tamfang 00:31, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

The old discussion is here --Miskwito 06:10, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Latin translation request

What exactly is this Latin in English: Epistolarum mearum ad diversos liber ? Thanks, --Doug ^talk 12:19, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I get: "a book of my letters to different people", does that fit the context? Storeye 12:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, thank you!! I originally wrote up an article called Epistolae familiares and found the information from various sources, however never knew exactly what the Latin phrase said (just copied what the source said). I only knew the shorted version meant: "Familiar Letters" (which is Petrarch's letters to different people).--Doug ^talk 15:25, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus

Jerome's name in Latin is Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus. What do these 3 words mean, if they have meanings other than just a name; especially Hieronymus? --Doug ^talk 15:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure they all mean something in Greek. Hieronymus means "sacred name". The other two I'd have to look up. —Angr 15:54, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Appreciate you finding the meaning of "Heironymes". If you stumble across the meanig of the other two let me know:

• Eusebius
• Sophronius

Thanks again, --Doug ^talk 19:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I looked 'em up. Eusebius means "respectful, pious", and Sophronius means "temperate, moderate". —Angr 05:07, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for these meanings. Appreciate it! --Doug ^talk 11:51, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

German help (again!)

Is there a good german word for Online or a phrase for on the internet. All I can get from my Wörterbuch is onlineö hardly a very german word! MHDIV MHDIV ɪŋglɪʃnɜː(r)d(Suggestion?|wanna chat?) 15:49, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, like it or not, online is the German word for online. Just pronounce it with a German accent. For "on the Internet" you can say im Internet (in German, you're in the Internet rather than on it). —Angr 15:52, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

A simple thing to do is to go to our articles on Online and Internet and look at the interwiki links in the left column to find de:Online and de:Internet. Just a tip that helps me sometimes.-Andrew c 01:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

episcopus and episcopos

Do these two words have the same meaning and are they basically the same word? I understand they basically mean that of a bishop. Bishop comes from the Greek word episkopos (επίσκοπος, from επι "over" and σκοπος "seeing"). It can be generally translated as an "overseer", superintendent, supervisor, the first, leader or foreman. Could it also have meaning of:

• Consul
• Proconsul
• Commander
• Statesman
• General

Most interested in the word as spelled "episcopus". --Doug ^talk 19:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Many masculine nouns in Proto Indo-European ended in '-os', and generally in Greek that ending was retained for them. In early Latin, in many contexts 'o' was raised to 'u', and in particular the common thematic ending in '-os'. Many of the words that we get from Greek, or which were coined from Greek roots, come to us in Latinised form, (besides '-us' for '-os', we also get 'oe' and 'ae' for 'oi' and 'ai', and 'c' for 'k'). Thus 'episcopos' or 'episkopos' is a directly transliterated form, and 'episcopus' a Latinised form, of Greek 'επισκοπος'. It is possible that the two different forms have become attached to distinct senses, but I'm not aware of such a distinction.

Again, it is possible that the word has been used for any of those specific ranks (though not, I would think, 'statesman' which is not a rank), but I don't think it has every regularly been so used. --ColinFine 00:35, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Great answer. Appreciate you explaining of these letters. It clears things up. Thanks! Also I now have a better idea that this word was used for a "rank". --Doug ^talk 12:02, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Greek episkopos was not used for military commanders, and specifically was not used for actual or equivalent consuls, proconsuls, commanders, or generals. When it doesn't have its literal common-noun meaning of "overseer" of someone/something, it is used for officials who oversee things like harbors & roads, or of Athenian "inspectors" sent out to subject states of the Athenian Empire, or various municipal officials. Wareh 13:32, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

That makes it much more clear. Could the word bishop have been used to signify or represent ranks of consuls, proconsuls, commanders, or generals? --Doug ^talk 14:05, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

No, it was not used in that way. Wareh 16:02, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Greek roots

In reference to: Many of the words that we get from Greek, or which were coined from Greek roots, come to us in Latinised form:

• 'oe' for 'oi'
• 'ae' for 'ai'

Do these letters then sometimes get turn around in time for some words that are Latinised or put into English? For example:

• 'oi' becomes 'io'
• 'ae' becomes 'ea'

--Doug ^talk 13:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

No, neither of those changes would happen. Wareh 13:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Although phoenix does often become pheonix. :P —Tamfang 20:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC)