Talk:Sirwal

Sirwal is not Persian

The automated source says the trousers came from Persia. This is incorrect since they are of Schytian origin with the word sirwal only being persian but not the pants. Also the source is old and is from 1997. Akmal94 (talk) 11:58, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

I agree. The first serious mistake is the claim that the Scythians originated in Iran. In fact, we find no “Iranian” features on Scythian artifacts. Recent reconstructions and DNA analyses confirm that the Scythians were autochthons of the Ukrainian steppes, who spread as far as the Caspian and beyond. At the same time, the oldest known samples of their DNA come precisely from the territory of modern Ukraine, indicating our land as their true homeland.

Ukrainians, as descendants of the Scythians, also wore trousers — sharovary — both narrow and very wide. If we look at the Scythian pectoral kept in Kyiv (photographs are easily found online), we see men holding the Golden Fleece, depicted in sharovary. It is important to emphasize that sharovary were a traditional element of Ukrainian clothing, while the Muscovites had no such garment.

Another important detail is that we do not see either “Iranian” faces or Persian fashion on any Scythian artifacts. What is sometimes labeled “Iranian” in style in fact belongs to mercenaries from Phrygia and other Anatolian peoples, who were genetically close to the Scythians and shared similar appearance. The Persians actively hired them because of their warlike nature and mobility. Yet in no other ancient sources do we find a Persian army that resembled a Scythian one. This is careless cultural appropriation, which has misled many researchers.

The Scythians were autochthons of the Yamnaya culture, whose language predates Persian by at least two thousand years and is in fact Proto-Indo-European, just like Iranian. They share much in common with Old Persian, so it is not surprising that the two sometimes sound alike.

Therefore, trousers were not worn only by Persians, nor did they come into Ukraine through Turks or any other external influences. This is the land where sharovary have been known and worn since ancient times. The Persians were simply another branch of the Proto-Indo-European community, and no one here can claim to be “the original” or “the main one.”

If we truly seek the truth, we must look at the world with a conscious eye, not merely through the lens of old authorities and inherited mistakes. 91.11.193.10 (talk) 15:31, 15 September 2025 (UTC)

Proposed merger of articles

A proposal has been made to merge the two articles dealing with sirwal and salwar traditional garments. While there are similarities and possibly a common origin, the salwar trousers are closely identified with the Punjabi region of India and are worn by men and women. The sirwal by contrast is associated with North Africa and to a lesser extent the Balkans. In addition it is a male garment of a somewhat different pattern and, at least historically, a distinctive feature of the "oriental" uniform worn by the zouave, tirailleur and spahi regiments of the French Army. In short merging the two articles could be confusing, although certainly a link would be warranted.Buistr (talk) 23:28, 11 December 2015 (UTC)