Talk:Jonathan Joss

Citizenship and ethnicity

Claims of his being "Spanish, Comanche and White Mountain Apache descent" were removed due to lack of WP:RS, and particularly WP:NDN-RS sourcing. An IP just tried to add them back. But in most of his bios and interviews online, it just says "Native American", with no nation given. This is of course a red flag.

This article has some... interesting statements: "The Native American actor is of Tarahumara background. Although Jonathan Joss's parents are still kept secret by the actor,

That would make him, at most, someone with Indigenous Mexican heritage. If that can be sourced. But someone who keeps the names of their family secret while they go up for Native roles... this is a problem. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 21:17, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Is he actually of Mexican ancestry? 76.190.213.189 (talk) 07:34, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

He doesn't claim it, and there's no room for original research on Wikipedia. According to him, "he grew up washing dishes and scrubbing floors in the Mexican restaurant his parents owned" (OLLU), but that doesn't mean anything substantive. Yuchitown (talk) 16:22, 18 February 2024 (UTC)Yuchitown

Mr. Joss has said himself: "I am of the Tarahumara tribe" (Reddit /r/KingOfTheHill Johnathan Joss). I am not sure what article you are referring to, but in this article by Eastfield News (apparently a student newspaper of Dallas College Eastfield): "Joss is a member of the Rarámuri tribe."

I suspect more information will come out in the future, but I do find it interesting there aren't many sources on this. The closest I could find was in Tribal Television: Viewing Native People in Sitcoms by Dustin Tahmahkera (enrolled citizen of the Comanche Nation of Oklahoma and historian) which claims "Of White Mountain Apache heritage, Joss..." which provides the following footnote:

“Various sources have identified Joss as Apache and/or Comanche. His official site states, “Jonathan’s Family Is Descended From The White Mountain Apache,” near the bottom of the page “Jonathan’s Links!,” which includes a link to the White Mountain Apaches’ official website. See http://www.jonathanjoss.com/Links.html (accessed Aug. 5, 2012).”

That is indeed true according to the Wayback Machine (https://web.archive.org/web/20121114133147/http://www.jonathanjoss.com/Links.html).

Currently, the article claims "Joss had Comanche and White Mountain Apache ancestry," which I think is likely true.

EDIT: Interestingly, on nativeamericancalling.com, when featuring Mr. Joss as a guest, it initially (archive) was posted as Tarahumara before later being changed to Comanche and White Mountain Apache: https://www.nativeamericacalling.com/friday-march-27-2020-comicon-on-the-radio/ John Kinslow (talk) 06:15, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Hi @Johnkinslow - IDK why his ancestry appears to have conflicting claims, but AFAIK, he was never publicly identified as being "Mexican" or "Mexican-American", nor was he known for playing characters who were Mexican or Mexican-American. The tribes that he appears to be identified with now, are not part of modern Mexico.

Granted, it's not uncommon for people (given history and access to resources) to not know their exact backgrounds, but maybe the identification with the Tarahumara people was just a rumour that spread (i.e: WP:CIRCULAR reporting). Clear Looking Glass (talk) 22:31, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Yes @Clear Looking Glass, I agree in regards to not identifying him as Mexican -- that was a claim by OP that I don't think can be substantiated. My concern was more in regards to identifying if there was any substantial sourcing of his heritage. Personally, I think the claim of his having Comanche and White Mountain Apache ancestry is warranted (it already has 3 sources and it's been repeated in more recent coverage of his death, see NY Times, Time). In regards to the Rarámuri claim, while the Reddit comment was made by Mr. Joss himself, given there's effectively no sourcing outside of that, I don't think an edit should be made.

If any changes were to be made, maybe tacking on, "Joss has publicly identified as having family descended from the White Mountain Apache" and citing his personal website might be warranted if there is any controversy on this subject.

TL;DR I'm fine with the article as is. John Kinslow (talk) 03:22, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Causes of Fire & death

This article paints an entirely different picture than what is being claimed by the husband. So far, this article seems to be taking only his word on the events. https://nypost.com/2025/06/02/entertainment/king-of-the-hill-star-jonathan-joss-suspected-killer-charged-with-murder/ —-Chimino (talk) 22:31, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

The NY Post is an unreliable source Cotboy (talk) 00:44, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

This January article from the San Antonio Express-News says that he had been using a barbecue grill inside his house earlier on the day of the fire, and quotes Joss as saying “I told them it was my fault.”

https://www.expressnews.com/lifestyle/article/king-of-the-hill-jonathan-joss-san-antonio-fire-20053771.php Lorencollins (talk) 02:03, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

I've heard this as well on NBC. That there was a propane stove being used indoors that could have started the fire. Here's the article in question: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna210670 VoidHalo (talk) 12:47, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Understood; when I wrote this the article was only using the husband’s claims. Other, better sources have a provides a bit of balance since then.—Chimino (talk) 16:01, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

He told KSAT that the cause was a propane heater.

http://www.sacurrent.com/news/king-of-the-hill-fans-rally-around-san-antonio-actor-after-he-loses-home-dogs-to-fire-36631007 Harizotoh9 (talk) 04:19, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Possible separate article about Joss’s murder?

This is getting lot of attention, not to mention he’s the victim of hate crime and King of the Hill is obviously very popular and the revival is coming up in this August. RayKVega (talk) 22:54, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

Hi @RayKVega: as of now, the San Antonio police state that there is no evidence of his shooting being a hate crime, although the investigation is still onging.

Some sources are reporting a statement released on the SAPD's official social media, which stated:

"Despite online claims of this being a hate crime, currently the investigation has found no evidence to indicate that the [sic] Mr. Joss’s murder was related to his sexual orientation. SAPD investigators handle these allegations very seriously and have thoroughly reviewed all available information," wrote the department in a post.

The department says if any new evidence comes out, the suspect will be charged accordingly.

Many sources note that Johnathan and the man arrested have had issues in the past. Whether or not those incidents and his shooting were irrefutably anti-homophobic, we'll have to wait and see. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 22:27, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Definitely premature on this. Maybe if the section is built up to the point of being unwieldy, but there are plenty of murdered people who dont have separate articles for the murder. Metallurgist (talk) 06:21, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Discussion related to naming shooting suspect

There is a discussion related to naming the suspect on the BLP noticeboard for anyone interested. Awshort (talk) 17:14, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

This was an issue on the two recent attacks against Jewish/Israel events, but the consensus seems to be that the suspect can be named once charged in relevant places, such as the suspect section. Altho care should be taken to avoid it in some cases. This case is a little more up in the air vs. those two where the suspect remained on scene and claimed responsibility, and there is video, altho they still need to be convicted. Metallurgist (talk) 06:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Pitchfork source

This source is being used in the article.

• https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/cried-wolf-nothing-done-king-hill-actor-jonathan-joss-pitchfork-neighbors/273-2d9d7e2c-b5fd-42af-97aa-570f6a4a55e3

When I use it, it doesn't go to an article about this event, but just redirects to the landing page for the wfaa youtube channel. It's currently useless and unusable. Why is it being used? Searching the wfaa channel for "pitchfork" yields nothing relevant. (Hohum ^@) 18:44, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

WFAA is likely geolocked, and is referring non-US users to their YouTube channel rather than returning a 451 Unavailable For Legal Reasons error. However, I cannot find a cached version of the page. Roundspecs (talk) 19:34, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Local sources in Texas are higher quality and going to give more in depth reporting. Much of the larger national and international sources are just citing local Texas stations reporting anyways. The source is live, high quality, and covers the dispute between the two men based on interviews with neighbors. Sources are not required to be accessible by all people at all times, merely that they exist, and someone can double check the source. Harizotoh9 (talk) 20:19, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

I can't compare, but this source may cover the same information?

• https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jonathan-joss-husband-shooting-final-moments-b2763075.html

(Hohum ^@) 22:17, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

This article is a copy of the WFAA article: https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/cried-wolf-nothing-done-king-hill-actor-jonathan-joss-pitchfork-neighbors/273-2d9d7e2c-b5fd-42af-97aa-570f6a4a55e3

Multiple news articles are reporting that it was a common occurance for him to rant and rave in the streets, sometimes with objects in his hand. Neighbors talking about how they'd try to ignore him. Harizotoh9 (talk) 22:33, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

FYI The kens5 article behaves in exactly the same way as the WFAA one, same parent / website policies perhaps. (Hohum ^@) 00:20, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

You can request Americans or Texans for assisting you since they can access these local sources. The local sources are going very in depth with interviewing the neighbors and discussing both Joss' history of behavior and the long lasting feud. The national ones tend to summarize and cite back to those local articles. Harizotoh9 (talk) 11:58, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

I'm local, both resolve fine. There are a number of sites which convert articles to text if that helps, otherwise I'm happy to verify a claim if you'll specify which part is in question. Sam Kuru (talk) 19:29, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2025

This should also be stated that it was a murder based on a hate crime that Texas isn’t doing anything about. 2607:FEA8:C29D:4C00:B133:A44B:874:40B0 (talk) 20:40, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

That is a claim by one witness and there are a number of other reports that complicate the lead up to this. We have to wait for the investigation to unfold and cant just create our own narrative. Metallurgist (talk) 21:40, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Day Creature (talk) 06:15, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

Premature new section "mental health and drug use"

This article has expanded due to the increase in fame of this person, but I'd bet money that half the information in this new section is misinformation due to the unusual politicization of this death.

If the section were present before the death, I'd find the information in it far more convincing.

Because I'd bet money that the section will have to go through several rewrites to correct misinformation (or fail to meet criteria for inclusion in a biographical article), I don't think it wise the section exist at this point in time.

IMO 2001:56A:711D:4500:2128:1599:62C7:DADA (talk) 21:32, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

I've integrated the text into the body of the article, rather than have it as a separate section. Do you have any specific suggestions for the improvement of the article? Harizotoh9 (talk) 19:30, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

Reddit User citation

Does this really feel strong enough to include in the article? "A person on Reddit said..." feels quite thin as anybody can say anything on Reddit. The source is a news article which makes the same claim of "some Reddit users said this happened...", but does not identify the user(s) nor back up their claims.

Reddit is not a reliable source.

Line in question:

"An attendee on the social media site Reddit stated that Joss interrupted the King of the Hill panel, bringing up his house burning down, which he felt was arson directed at his homosexuality." Roundspecs (talk) 22:41, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

Reddit or not, it's hearsay and second hand information from an anonymous source of unknown credibility, that being the user. VoidHalo (talk) 12:58, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

 Done Anne drew (talk · contribs) 13:13, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

There are multiple videos of the event from different angles in addition to the reddit post (such as TMZ), so there's no question as to the authenticity of them. KSAT-TV cited the reddit post merely as one witness to the event, and to quote the user's reaction that it was a "meltdown" more than anything. People has since covered the same incident while also directly quoting what Joss said directly.

It's common for journalists to cite social media posts after an event, and they're considered reliable sources because they vet said information rather than just run with rumors. Harizotoh9 (talk) 17:20, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

SATX Police Apology

Almost two weeks ago, San Antonio Police retracted their statement that ruled out Jonathan Joss's murder as a hate crime here and here. Shouldn't this be mentioned in the prose of the article? C.eddy.garcia (talk) 22:38, 18 June 2025 (UTC)