Talk:German Emperor

Full titles of Frederick III

I noticed that in the 'Full titles' section that the full titles for Frederick III are missing. So I went searching encyclopedias and the internet to find them so I could add them there. I have been searching for quite a while and can't seem to find them. I figured that because of his short reign that may be the reason it is hard to find this information, but that doesn't make him any less important than Wilhelm I and Wilhelm II. So if anyone knows where to find this information, or is willing to look for it, I think we should add it to the article. --Lord Gorbachev (talk) 21:47, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

As the title of Wilhelm I and Wilhelm II only differ in some minor spelling changes and the order the titles are named I suppose the full title of Frederick III was the same. Genealogisch (talk) 14:19, 17 July 2012 (UTC) king Wilhem was a German emperor

Pretender

Does George Friedrich actually claim the title of German emperor? Because if not he isn’t a pretender. 83.233.104.136 (talk) 17:48, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Emperor of Germany or German Emperor

In the info box up at the beginning, it says that Wilhelm II was “Emperor ofGermany” (they put of and Germany together). This is incorrect 142.113.63.149 (talk) 15:52, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Kaiser not Emperor

Although emperor might have been that ruler's official rank, and the literal translation of Kaiser; by long use and cultural tradition, the title of the German emperor, particularly and especially when it denotes Wilhelm II, in English is always Kaiser. The exception would be an historical, pre-Napoleonic context, for the Holy Roman Emperor. Nuttyskin (talk) 14:05, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 15 September 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 03:50, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

---

German Emperor → German KaiserGerman Kaiser – The monarchs of Germany from 1871 to 1918 are overwhelmingly called Kaiser in contemporary English translations, with the title emperor becoming (somewhat) anachronistic. It's to the degree that I think many readers would probably be confused by the title of "German Emperor" when looking for it. This isn't a Tsar of Russia to Emperor of Russia situation, where there was a conscious change in the name of the imperial title, this is just a word-for-word translation, and looking at scholarly works and even colloquial discourse has seen Kaiser become preferred (especially amongst the sources that refer to the first and last monarchs as Wilhelm, which have both been moved from William for similar reasons). See also: Ngrams 1, Ngrams 2 (note how even translations that anglicize William see emperor neck and neck with kaiser), 500,000 results for Kaiser Wilhelm on Google Scholar vs 140,000 for Emperor Wilhelm, 641,000 for German Emperor vs 1,800,000 for German Kaiser. WikiNav is not working for me for whatever reason, but I'd expect that significant amounts of the traffic from Kaiser and Kaiser (disambiguation) go here as well, enough to support this move. — Knightoftheswords(talk) 04:27, 15 September 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. In solidarity, Grilledcheeseisgreat ^✉ 13:58, 22 September 2026 (UTC)

Pinging @Nuttyskin: who argued similarly two years ago in the post above. — Knightoftheswords(talk) 04:28, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

• Support – I would also like to add moving Frederick III, German Emperor to Frederick III of Germany per WP:SOVEREIGN to this move (I will add the relevant notification on that talk page). Get two birds with one stone. No reason to have to move it to German Kaiser and then do another RM to do the WP:SOVEREIGN move. The reason for my support is per WP:COMMONNAME; the holders of this title are almost ubiquitously referred to as Kaisers in English-language use. –Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 07:55, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Potentially confusing. The term Frederick III of Germany is often used for: 1) Frederick the Fair, anti-king of Germany (reigned 1314-1325) and then co-king from 1325 until 1330), 2)Frederick III, Holy Roman Emperor (reigned 1452-1493) who was also King of Germany from 1440 until 1493), and 3) Frederick III, German Emperor (reigned 1888). By the way, the title Kaiser was used for all of the emperors of both the German Empire and the Austrian Empire. Dimadick (talk) 10:00, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right, I didn't think about that. Best just to leave the format as-is then, and change "Emperor" to "Kaiser" if this RM results in a consensus to move. –Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 16:28, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose. 'German Emperor' is commoner than 'German Kaiser': . The opening statement is a personal opinion unsupported by evidence. Celia Homeford (talk) 11:36, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

  "German Emperor" can also refer to any of the emperors in Germany that came before the Kaisers. A more accurate view is gained by looking at how Wilhelm I and Wilhelm II are referred to (only the Wilhelms because Frederick III, German Emperor shares his regnal name and ordinal with Frederick III, Holy Roman Emperor). If we do this it becomes clear that "Emperor" is much less common than "Kaiser": Ngrams, Scholar –Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 13:16, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

  None of those are searches for these article titles. Celia Homeford (talk) 15:01, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

  When referring to the monarchs of Imperial Germany, Kaiser is often mentioned without the German qualifier, whereas Emperor often comes with it. Therefore, it's better to analyze how the monarchs themselves are referred to. — Knightoftheswords(talk) 15:27, 15 September 2026 (UTC)

  Yes? I don't quite understand your point. Obviously I won't be comparing usage of "German Emperor" contra "German Kaiser" when my whole argument is that such a comparison cannot be used to determine what the most common title used for the monarch of the German Empire is. –Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 01:27, 16 September 2026 (UTC)

  You're not suggesting a move to "Kaiser". The suggested move is to "German Kaiser". If you cannot understand this simple distinction, then you should not hold the 'page mover' right. Celia Homeford (talk) 12:38, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

  Obviously I'm not going to suggest a move to Kaiser because that's an article covering the title in general. The "German" part is required as natural disambiguation. Sorry for not making that clear – it's the kind of thing that is so obvious to a page mover that it didn't even occur to me that I might need to explicitly state that. –Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 13:25, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

  I presume you're being purposely idiotic as a form of sardonic wit? Sarcasm does not always come across in written form. Celia Homeford (talk) 14:51, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

  Certainly; you shouldn't expect much else when you make remarks about another editor's compentency. –Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 18:15, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose. We should resist reifying every quirk of English usage as if it represented a material difference. As the nom knows, the tsar/emperor distinction in the Russian case mirrors an actual change in usage in official Russian usage and corresponds to a major inflection point in Russian history. But it's just a quirk of English usage that we say "Kaiser" when talking about the German emperors but not the Holy Roman emperors or the emperors of Austria. They were all equally Kaisers in German. There is educational value in leading with the more consistent term (emperor) and then noting that the German term is often used rather than doing the reverse—leading with Kaiser than telling the reader it just means emperor. Srnec (talk) 00:33, 16 September 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose. I agree with Srnec. The distinction between “tsar” and “emperor” in the Russian context reflects a genuine historical and terminological change in official usage, whereas “Kaiser” versus “emperor” in English is largely a matter of convention. In German, the rulers of the German Empire, Austria, and the Holy Roman Empire were all Kaiser (or, more precisely in some periods, Kaiser as the German rendering of imperator). Personally I am also against creating amalgamations using words from different languages and I believe it is something that needs to be avoided as much as possible. Keivan.f^Talk 22:09, 18 September 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose per previous points. Illini11 (talk) 21:10, 19 September 2026 (UTC)
• Support per nom and Maltazarian. Kaiser seems to be the most common form here in English-language texts, and I don't see a convincing reason not to use it. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 07:57, 22 September 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose. Seeing as how "Kaiser" is German for "Emperor", it seems very unnecessary. Emiya1980 (talk) 03:29, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose. In addition to the arguments already raised, I’d like to point out that according to our article Kaiser, the word brings a neutrality problem: “During the First World War, anti-German sentiment was at its zenith; the term kaiser—especially as applied to Wilhelm II—thus gained considerable negative connotations in English-speaking countries.” Keriluamox (talk) 04:39, 23 September 2026 (UTC)
• Support. Yes, of course "Kaiser" is the German term for "Emperor", but that doesn't negate the point that this was the common English-language term for the German Emperor (and has essentially entered the English language to mean such, so "German Kaiser" isn't really a mixture of two languages). Almost always referred to in English-language sources as the Kaiser rather than the Emperor, so clear WP:COMMONNAME. The Austrian Emperor, on the other hand, wasn't usually referred to as the Kaiser in English-language sources. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:16, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Politics, WikiProject Germany, WikiProject European history, and WikiProject Royalty and Nobility have been notified of this discussion. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 01:04, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.