Talk:Donald Trump

Current consensus

About consensus at this article

Only a fraction of talk page consensuses are listed here, but a list item does not increase the force of a consensus. Consensuses do not have expiration dates or half-lives; until modified or canceled, a ten-year-old consensus remains in force as much as one established last week.

This article adheres to WP:CCC (consensus can change). Many of the items in this list have been superseded, amended, or canceled. Before you propose a change to a consensus, read the discussion(s) linked in the list item. Try to understand the arguments.

• Do you have new and significant arguments? Merely changing the words, to something with the same meaning as an old argument, is not a new argument.
• Has the external (to Wikipedia) situation changed sufficiently to warrant a revisitation of the consensus?
• If you can answer "yes" to either of the above questions, your proposal should be well-received. Otherwise, your proposal will likely be resisted as time better spent on other issues. You might see the words "settled issue", and the discussion might be closed early.
• If you propose to alter a consensus, clearly explain why a revisitation of the consensus is justified. "I disagree with it", alone, is not a good reason.
• Be prepared to produce reliable sources to support your proposal for article change, where appropriate. Better yet, include them in your opening comment.
• Per WP:EDITREQ and consensus 74, do not use the edit request facility to seek a change to a consensus. Instead, use a normal discussion thread.

NOTE: It is recommended to link to this list in your edit summary when reverting, as:
[[Talk:Donald Trump#Cn|consensus n]], replacing both occurrences of n with the item number.
To ensure you are viewing the current list, you may wish to .

01. Use the official White House portrait as the infobox image. (Dec 2016, Jan 2017, Oct 2017, March 2020) (temporarily suspended by #19 following copyright issues on the inauguration portrait, enforced when an official public-domain portrait was released on 31 October 2017)

02. Show birthplace as "Queens, New York City, U.S." in the infobox. (Nov 2016, Oct 2018, Feb 2021) "New York City" de-linked. (September 2020)

03. Omit reference to county-level election statistics. (Dec 2016)

04. Superseded by #15

Lead phrasing of Trump "gaining a majority of the U.S. Electoral College" and "receiving a smaller share of the popular vote nationwide", without quoting numbers. (Nov 2016, Dec 2016) (Superseded by #15 since 11 February 2017)

05. Use Trump's annual net worth evaluation and matching ranking, from the Forbes list of billionaires, not from monthly or "live" estimates. (Oct 2016) In the lead section, just write: Forbes estimates his net worth to be [$x.x] billion. (July 2018, July 2018) Removed from the lead per #47.

06. Do not include allegations of sexual misconduct in the lead section. (June 2016, Feb 2018)

07. Superseded by #35

Include "Many of his public statements were controversial or false." in the lead. (Sep 2016, February 2017, wording shortened per April 2017, upheld with July 2018) (superseded by #35 since 18 February 2019)

08. Superseded by unlisted consensus

Mention that Trump is the first president elected "without prior military or government service". (Dec 2016, superseded Nov 2024)

09. Include a link to Trump's Twitter account in the "External links" section. (Jan 2017) Include a link to an archive of Trump's Twitter account in the "External links" section. (Jan 2021)

10. Canceled

Keep Barron Trump's name in the list of children and wikilink it, which redirects to his section in Family of Donald Trump per AfD consensus. (Jan 2017, Nov 2016) Canceled: Barron's BLP has existed since June 2019. (June 2024)

11. Superseded by #17

The lead sentence is "Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is an American businessman, television personality, politician, and the 45th President of the United States." (Jan 2017, Jan 2017, Jan 2017, Jan 2017, Jan 2017, Feb 2017) (superseded by #17 since 2 April 2017)

12. The article title is Donald Trump, not Donald J. Trump. (RM Jan 2017, RM June 2019)

13. Auto-archival is set for discussions with no comments for 7 days. Manual archival is allowed for (1) closed discussions, 24 hours after the closure, provided the closure has not been challenged, and (2) "answered" edit requests, 24 hours after the "answer", provided there has been no follow-on discussion after the "answer". (Jan 2017) (amended with respect to manual archiving, to better reflect common practice at this article) (Nov 2019) Strikethrough per #74.

14. Omit mention of Trump's alleged bathmophobia/fear of slopes. (Feb 2017)

15. Superseded by lead rewrite

Supersedes #4. There is no consensus to change the formulation of the paragraph which summarizes election results in the lead (starting with "Trump won the general election on November 8, 2016, …"). Accordingly the pre-RfC text (Diff 8 Jan 2017) has been restored, with minor adjustments to past tense (Diff 11 Feb 2018). No new changes should be applied without debate. (RfC Feb 2017, Jan 2017, Feb 2017, Feb 2017) In particular, there is no consensus to include any wording akin to "losing the popular vote". (RfC March 2017) (Superseded by local consensus on 26 May 2017 and lead section rewrite on 23 June 2017)

16. Superseded by lead rewrite

Do not mention Russian influence on the presidential election in the lead section. (RfC March 2017) (Superseded by lead section rewrite on 23 June 2017)

17. Superseded by #50

Supersedes #11. The lead paragraph is "Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is the 45th and current president of the United States. Before entering politics, he was a businessman and television personality." The hatnote is simply {{Other uses}}. (April 2017, RfC April 2017, April 2017, April 2017, April 2017, July 2017, Dec 2018) Amended by lead section rewrite on 23 June 2017 and removal of inauguration date on 4 July 2018. Lower-case "p" in "president" per Dec 2018 and MOS:JOBTITLES RfC Oct 2017. Wikilinks modified per April 2020. Wikilink modified again per July 2020. "45th" de-linked. (Jan 2021)

18. Superseded by #63

The "Alma mater" infobox entry shows "Wharton School (BS Econ.)", does not mention Fordham University. (April 2017, April 2017, Aug 2020, Dec 2020)

19. Obsolete

Following deletion of Trump's official White House portrait for copyright reasons on 2 June 2017, infobox image was replaced by File:Donald Trump Pentagon 2017.jpg. (June 2017 for replacement, June 2017, declined REFUND on 11 June 2017) (replaced by White House official public-domain portrait according to #1 since 31 Oct 2017)

20. Superseded by unlisted consensus

Mention protests in the lead section with this exact wording: His election and policies have sparked numerous protests. (June 2017, May 2018, superseded December 2024) (Note: In February 2021, when he was no longer president, the verb tense was changed from "have sparked" to "sparked", without objection.)

21. Superseded by #39

Omit any opinions about Trump's psychology held by mental health academics or professionals who have not examined him. (July 2017, Aug 2017) (superseded by #36 on 18 June 2019, then by #39 since 20 Aug 2019)

22. Do not call Trump a "liar" in Wikipedia's voice. Falsehoods he uttered can be mentioned, while being mindful of calling them "lies", which implies malicious intent. (RfC Aug 2017, upheld by RfC July 2024)

23. Superseded by #52

The lead includes the following sentence: Trump ordered a travel ban on citizens from several Muslim-majority countries, citing security concerns; after legal challenges, the Supreme Court upheld the policy's third revision. (Aug 2017, Nov 2017, Dec 2017, Jan 2018, Jan 2018) Wording updated (July 2018) and again (Sep 2018).

24. Superseded by #30

Do not include allegations of racism in the lead. (Feb 2018)

25. In citations, do not code the archive-related parameters for sources that are not dead. (Dec 2017, March 2018)

26. Do not include opinions by Michael Hayden and Michael Morell that Trump is a "useful fool […] manipulated by Moscow" or an "unwitting agent of the Russian Federation". (RfC April 2018)

27. State that Trump falsely claimed that Hillary Clinton started the Barack Obama birther rumors. (April 2018, June 2018)

28. Include, in the Wealth section, a sentence on Jonathan Greenberg's allegation that Trump deceived him in order to get on the Forbes 400 list. (June 2018, June 2018)

29. Include material about the Trump administration family separation policy in the article. (June 2018)

30. Supersedes #24. The lead includes: "Many of his comments and actions have been characterized as racially charged or racist." (RfC Sep 2018, Oct 2018, RfC May 2019). Consensus on "racially charged" descriptor later superseded (February 2025).

31. Do not mention Trump's office space donation to Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/Push Coalition in 1999. (Nov 2018)

32. Omit from the lead the fact that Trump is the first sitting U.S. president to meet with a North Korean supreme leader. See #44. (RfC July 2018, Nov 2018)

33. Do not mention "birtherism" in the lead section. (RfC Nov 2018)

34. Refer to Ivana Zelníčková as a Czech model, with a link to Czechs (people), not Czechoslovakia (country). (Jan 2019)

35. Superseded by #49

Supersedes #7. Include in the lead: Trump has made many false or misleading statements during his campaign and presidency. The statements have been documented by fact-checkers, and the media have widely described the phenomenon as unprecedented in American politics. (RfC Feb 2019)

36. Superseded by #39

Include one paragraph merged from Health of Donald Trump describing views about Trump's psychology expressed by public figures, media sources, and mental health professionals who have not examined him. (June 2019) (paragraph removed per RfC Aug 2019 yielding consensus #39)

37. Resolved: Content related to Trump's presidency should be limited to summary-level about things that are likely to have a lasting impact on his life and/or long-term presidential legacy. (June 2019)

38. Do not state in the lead that Trump is the wealthiest U.S. president ever. (RfC June 2019)

39. Supersedes #21 and #36. Do not include any paragraph regarding Trump's mental health or mental fitness for office. Do not bring up for discussion again until an announced formal diagnosis or WP:MEDRS-level sources are provided. This does not preclude bringing up for discussion whether to include media coverage relating to Trump's mental health and fitness. This does not prevent inclusion of content about temperamental fitness for office. (RfC Aug 2019, July 2021)

40. Include, when discussing Trump's exercise or the lack thereof: He has called golfing his "primary form of exercise", although he usually does not walk the course. He considers exercise a waste of energy, because he believes the body is "like a battery, with a finite amount of energy" which is depleted by exercise. (RfC Aug 2019)

41. Omit book authorship (or lack thereof) from the lead section. (RfC Nov 2019)

42. House and Senate outcomes of the impeachment process are separated by a full stop. For example: He was impeached by the House on December 18, 2019, for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. He was acquitted of both charges by the Senate on February 5, 2020. (Feb 2020)

43. The rules for edits to the lead are no different from those for edits below the lead. For edits that do not conflict with existing consensus: Prior consensus is NOT required. BOLD edits are allowed, subject to normal BRD process. The mere fact that an edit has not been discussed is not a valid reason to revert it. (March 2020)

44. Superseded by #71

The lead section should mention North Korea, focusing on Trump's meetings with Kim and some degree of clarification that they haven't produced clear results. See #32. (RfC May 2020)

45. Superseded by #48

There is no consensus to mention the COVID-19 pandemic in the lead section. (RfC May 2020, July 2020)

46. Use the caption "Official portrait, 2017" for the infobox image. (Aug 2020, Jan 2021) The consensus carries forward to "Official portrait, 2025" in 2025.

47. Do not mention Trump's net worth or Forbes ranking (or equivalents from other publications) in the lead, nor in the infobox. (Sep 2020)

48. Supersedes #45. Trump's reaction to the COVID-19 pandemic should be mentioned in the lead section. There is no consensus on specific wording, but the status quo is Trump reacted slowly to the COVID-19 pandemic; he minimized the threat, ignored or contradicted many recommendations from health officials, and promoted false information about unproven treatments and the availability of testing. (Oct 2020, RfC Aug 2020)

49. Supersedes #35. Include in lead: Trump has made many false and misleading statements during his campaigns and presidency, to a degree unprecedented in American politics. (Dec 2020)

50. Superseded by #70

Supersedes #17. The lead sentence is: Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is an American politician, media personality, and businessman who served as the 45th president of the United States from 2017 to 2021. (March 2021), amended (July 2021), inclusion of politician (RfC September 2021)

51. Include in the lead that many of Trump's comments and actions have been characterized as misogynistic. (Aug 2021 and Sep 2021)

52. Supersedes #23. The lead should contain a summary of Trump's actions on immigration, including the Muslim travel ban (cf. item 23), the wall, and the family separation policy. (September 2021)

53. The lead should mention that Trump promotes conspiracy theories. (RfC October 2021)

54. Include in the lead that, quote, Scholars and historians rank Trump as one of the worst presidents in U.S. history. (RfC October 2021) Amended after re-election: After his first term, scholars and historians ranked Trump as one of the worst presidents in American history. (November 2024)

55. Regarding Trump's comments on the 2017 far-right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, do not wiki-link "Trump's comments" in this manner. (RfC December 2021)

56. Retain the content that Trump never confronted Putin over its alleged bounties against American soldiers in Afghanistan but add context. Current wording can be altered or contextualized; no consensus was achieved on alternate wordings. (RfC November 2021) Trump's expressions of doubt regarding the Russian Bounties Program should be included in some capacity, though there there is no consensus on a specific way to characterize these expressed doubts. (RfC March 2022)

57. Do not mention in the lead Gallup polling that states Trump's the only president to never reach 50% approval rating. (RfC January 2022)

58. Use inline citations in the lead for the more contentious and controversial statements. Editors should further discuss which sentences would benefit from having inline citations. (RfC May 2022, discussion on what to cite May 2022)

59. Do not label or categorize Trump as a far-right politician. (RfC August 2022)

60. Insert the links described in the RfC January 2023.

61. When a thread is started with a general assertion that the article is biased for or against Trump (i.e., without a specific, policy-based suggestion for a change to the article), it is to be handled as follows:

1. Reply briefly with a link to Talk:Donald Trump/Response to claims of bias, optionally using its shortcut, WP:TRUMPRCB.
2. Close the thread using {{archive top}} and {{archive bottom}}, referring to this consensus item. Suggested closure for copy-and-paste:
   {{atop|Please read [[WP:TRUMPRCB]]. Closing per [[Talk:Donald Trump#C61|consensus 61]]. Eligible for manual archival after this time tomorrow. ~~~~}}
   [existing thread]
   {{abot}}
3. Wait at least 24 hours per #13.
4. Manually archive the thread.

This does not apply to posts that are clearly in bad faith, which are to be removed on sight. (May 2023)

62. The article's description of the five people who died during and subsequent to the January 6 Capitol attack should avoid a) mentioning the causes of death and b) an explicit mention of the Capitol Police Officer who died. (RfC July 2023)

63. Supersedes #18. The alma mater field of the infobox reads: "University of Pennsylvania (BS)". (September 2023)

64. Omit the {{Very long}} tag. (January 2024)

65. Mention the Abraham Accords in the article; no consensus was achieved on specific wordings. (RfC February 2024)

66. Omit {{infobox criminal}}. (RfC June 2024)

67. The "Health" section includes: "Trump says he has never drunk alcohol, smoked cigarettes, or used drugs. He drugs, and that he sleeps about four or five hours a night." (February 2021) Amended (October 2025)

68. Do not expand the brief mention of Trumpism in the lead. (RfC January 2025)

69. Do not include the word "criminal" in the first sentence. (January 2025)

70. Supersedes #50. First two sentences read:

Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is an American politician, media personality, and businessman who is the 47th president of the United States. A member of the Republican Party, he served as the 45th president from 2017 to 2021.

Linking exactly as shown. (February 2025)

71. Supersedes #44. Omit from the lead a mention of the Trump–Kim meetings of 2018 and 2019. (April 2025)

72. Omit from the lead a mention of the January 6 pardons. (RfC July 2025)

73. Article body includes:

Trump had a 15-year friendship with Jeffrey Epstein; persons who knew them at the time said they frequently hit on and competed for women. Media attention and public pressure mounted in 2025, when his administration did not release files relating to Epstein, despite Trump's promise to do so during the 2024 campaign.

(August 2025, September 2025)

74. This article adheres to WP:EDITREQ. If an edit request is potentially controversial, an editor responds in one of three ways:

• :{{subst:EEp|c}} ~~~~, rendering as:
   Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. [your signature]
• If the editor prefers a less formal, more personal touch, non-template language to the same effect as above.
• Or some combination of the above two, with the template first.
  Unless someone feels the response was incorrect for the situation (the edit request was not potentially controversial), no comments are posted after the response. Unless there is a good faith challenge in the interim, the thread is manually archived after 24 hours after the response, per #13. (October 2025)

75. Mention the Greenland crisis in the body. (January 2026)

76. Do not use the word "persecution" when describing Trump's policies toward transgender people. See closure for more. (RfC May 2026)

Internal consistency

This article generally conforms to MoS guidelines. Where MoS guidelines allow differences between articles at editor discretion, this article uses the conventions listed here.

Copy editing

These conventions do not apply to quotations or citation |title= parameters, which are left unchanged from the sources.

1. Use American English, per the {{use American English}} template. A good American English dictionary is at https://www.merriam-webster.com/.
2. Use "Month Day, Year" date format in prose, per the {{use mdy dates}} template.
3. To prevent line breaks between month and day in prose, code for example April 12. Since content is often moved around, do this even if the date occurs very early on the line.
4. To prevent line breaks within numerical quantities comprising two "words", code for example $10 billion.
5. Use unspaced em dash ("—"), not spaced en dash (" – ").
6. For em dash, code the HTML entity —. Do not code:
   • the actual em dash character (which is not found on standard keyboards and can be ambiguous in the font used in the edit window) or
   • the {{em dash}} template (which would unnecessarily consume some of the limited PEIS resource)
7. For en dash, code the HTML entity –. Do not code:
   • the actual en dash character (which is not found on standard keyboards and can be ambiguous in the font used in the edit window) or
   • the {{en dash}} template (which would unnecessarily consume some of the limited PEIS resource)
8. Use "U.S.", not "US", for abbreviation of "United States".
9. Use the Oxford/serial comma. Write "this, that, and the other", not "this, that and the other".
10. In the captions of images that depict Trump, generally omit identification of him; that is, omit his name. We omit the obvious, as image captions should always do. There are rare exceptions where "the obvious" is not so obvious, as at Donald Trump#Wealth (permalink).

References

The Citation Style 1 (CS1) templates are used for most references, including all news sources. Most commonly used are {{cite news}}, {{cite magazine}}, {{cite book}}, and {{cite web}}.

1. |work= and its aliases link to the Wikipedia article when one exists.
2. Generally, |work= and its aliases match the Wikipedia article's title exactly when one exists. Code |work=[[The New York Times]], not |work=[[New York Times]]. Code |work=[[Los Angeles Times]], not |work=[[The Los Angeles Times]].
   • There are some exceptions where a redirect is more appropriate, such as AP News and NPR News, but be consistent with those exceptions.
   • When the article title includes a parenthetical, such as in Time (magazine), pipe the link to drop the parenthetical: |magazine=[[Time (magazine)|Time]]. Otherwise, there is rarely a good reason to pipe this link.
3. Code |last= and |first= for credited authors, not |author=.
4. Code |author-link= when an author has a Wikipedia article (known author links are listed below). Place this immediately after the |last= and |first= parameters for that author. |last1=Baker|first1=Peter|author-link1=Peter Baker (journalist)|last2=Freedman|first2=Dylan.
5. In |title= parameters, all-caps "shouting" is converted to title case. "AP FACT CHECK:" becomes "AP Fact Check:".
6. Per consensus 25, omit the archive-related parameters for sources that are not dead. These parameters are |url-status=, |archive-url=, and |archive-date=.
7. Omit |language= for English-language sources.
8. Omit |publisher= for news sources.
9. Omit |location= for news sources.
10. Omit |issn= for news sources.
11. Code a space before the pipe character for each parameter. For example, code: |date=April 12, 2025 |last=Baker |first=Peter |author-link=Peter Baker (journalist)—not: |date=April 12, 2025|last=Baker|first=Peter|author-link=Peter Baker (journalist). This provides the following benefits for the edit window and diffs:
    • Improved readability.
    • Over all, this tends to allow more line breaks at logical places (between cite parameters).
12. Otherwise, coding differences that do not affect what readers see are unimportant. Since they are unimportant, we don't need to revert changes by editors who think they are important (the changes, not the editors:). For example:
    • Any supported date format is acceptable since the templates convert dates to mdy format for display.
    • For web-based news sources, the choice between |work=, |newspaper=, and |website= is unimportant.
    • The sequence of template parameters is unimportant.

Known author links

• |author-link=Davey Alba
  
• |author-link=Jacqueline Alemany
  
• |author-link=Binyamin Appelbaum
  
• |author-link=Matt Apuzzo
  
• |author-link=Rachael Bade
  
• |author-link=Peter Baker (journalist)
  
• |author-link=Dan Balz
  
• |author-link=Wayne Barrett
  
• |author-link=James Barron (journalist)
  
• |author-link=David Barstow
  
• |author-link=Michael C. Bender
  
• |author-link=Ruth Ben-Ghiat
  
• |author-link=Sheri Berman
  
• |author-link=Joan Biskupic
  
• |author-link=Gwenda Blair
  
• |author-link=John Blaxland (historian)
  
• |author-link=Laura Bliss
  
• |author-link=Melissa Block
  
• |author-link=Marie Brenner
  
• |author-link=Luke Broadwater
  
• |author-link=Ron Brownstein
  
• |author-link=Russ Buettner
  
• |author-link=Jason Burke
  
• |author-link=Alex Burns (journalist)
  
• |author-link=Fox Butterfield
  
• |author-link=Thomas Carothers
  
• |author-link=Ben Casselman
  
• |author-link=Kyle Cheney (journalist)
  
• |author-link=Chris Cillizza
  
• |author-link=Eleanor Clift
  
• |author-link=Kaitlan Collins
  
• |author-link=Nicholas Confessore
  
• |author-link=Kate Conger
  
• |author-link=Helene Cooper
  
• |author-link=Robert Costa (journalist)
  
• |author-link=Susanne Craig
  
• |author-link=Michael Crowley (journalist)
  
• |author-link=Daniel Dale
  
• |author-link=Michael D'Antonio
  
• |author-link=Julie Hirschfeld Davis
  
• |author-link=Josh Dawsey
  
• |author-link=Saeed Kamali Dehghan
  
• |author-link=Lisa de Moraes
  
• |author-link=Lisa Desjardins
  
• |author-link=Jeremy Diamond
  
• |author-link=David Enrich
  
• |author-link=Steven Erlanger
  
• |author-link=David Fahrenthold
  
• |author-link=Marc Fisher
  
• |author-link=David Folkenflik
  
• |author-link=Trip Gabriel
  
• |author-link=William G. Gale
  
• |author-link=Jamie Gangel
  
• |author-link=Bill Geist
  
• |author-link=Susan Glasser
  
• |author-link=Adam Goldman
  
• |author-link=David Greenberg (historian)
  
• |author-link=Maggie Haberman
  
• |author-link=Stephan Haggard
  
• |author-link=Amy Harmon
  
• |author-link=Shane Harris
  
• |author-link=Drew Harwell
  
• |author-link=Steven Hassan
  
• |author-link=Rosalind S. Helderman
  
• |author-link=Angie Drobnic Holan
  
• |author-link=Scott Horsley
  
• |author-link=Carl Hulse
  
• |author-link=Harry Hurt III
  
• |author-link=Mike Isaac
  
• |author-link=Ben Jacobs (journalist)
  
• |author-link=Kevin Johnson (lawyer)
  
• |author-link=David Cay Johnston
  
• |author-link=Andrew Kaczynski
  
• |author-link=Michiko Kakutani
  
• |author-link=Zolan Kanno-Youngs
  
• |author-link=Annie Karni
  
• |author-link=Aaron Katersky
  
• |author-link=Tamara Keith
  
• |author-link=Glenn Kessler (journalist)
  
• |author-link=Naomi Klein
  
• |author-link=Alison Kodjak
  
• |author-link=Maria Konnikova
  
• |author-link=Michael Kranish
  
• |author-link=Adrienne LaFrance
  
• |author-link=Sharon LaFraniere
  
• |author-link=Matt Lee (journalist)
  
• |author-link=Michelle Ye Hee Lee
  
• |author-link=Jonathan Lemire
  
• |author-link=Carol D. Leonnig
  
• |author-link=Adam B. Lerner
  
• |author-link=Adam Liptak
  
• |author-link=Eric Lipton
  
• |author-link=Ryan Mac
  
• |author-link=Ewen MacAskill
  
• |author-link=Tim Mak
  
• |author-link=Arash Markazi
  
• |author-link=Jonathan Martin (journalist)
  
• |author-link=Phil Mattingly
  
• |author-link=Jane Mayer
  
• |author-link=Mark Mazzetti
  
• |author-link=Sarah McCammon
  
• |author-link=Brett McGurk
  
• |author-link=Jesse McKinley
  
• |author-link=Jon Meacham
  
• |author-link=Jennifer Mercieca
  
• |author-link=Zeke Miller
  
• |author-link=Sara Murray (journalist)
  
• |author-link=Brigitte L. Nacos
  
• |author-link=Adam Nagourney
  
• |author-link=Ellen Nakashima
  
• |author-link=Ron Nixon
  
• |author-link=Floyd Norris
  
• |author-link=Emily Nussbaum
  
• |author-link=Timothy L. O'Brien
  
• |author-link=Ed O'Keefe
  
• |author-link=Toluse Olorunnipa
  
• |author-link=Michael Oreskes
  
• |author-link=Ashley Parker
  
• |author-link=Azi Paybarah
  
• |author-link=Robert Pear
  
• |author-link=Samuel L. Perry
  
• |author-link=Bill Pennington
  
• |author-link=Jeremy W. Peters
  
• |author-link=Abby Phillip
  
• |author-link=Kendra Pierre-Louis
  
• |author-link=David Pion-Berlin
  
• |author-link=James Poniewozik
  
• |author-link=Paul Pringle
  
• |author-link=Alan Rappeport
  
• |author-link=Frank Rich
  
• |author-link=Simon Romero
  
• |author-link=Matthew Rosenberg
  
• |author-link=Philip Rucker
  
• |author-link=Jim Rutenberg
  
• |author-link=Jason Samenow
  
• |author-link=David E. Sanger
  
• |author-link=Choe Sang-hun
  
• |author-link=Austin Sarat
  
• |author-link=Stephanie Saul
  
• |author-link=Charlie Savage (journalist)
  
• |author-link=Brian Schaffner
  
• |author-link=Noam Scheiber
  
• |author-link=Michael Scherer (journalist)
  
• |author-link=Michael S. Schmidt
  
• |author-link=David Segal (journalist)
  
• |author-link=Robert Y. Shapiro
  
• |author-link=Michael D. Shear
  
• |author-link=Sara Sidner
  
• |author-link=Scott Simon
  
• |author-link=Felicia Sonmez
  
• |author-link=Marianna Spring
  
• |author-link=Barbara Starr
  
• |author-link=Jeff Stein (author)
  
• |author-link=Eli Stokols
  
• |author-link=Sheryl Gay Stolberg
  
• |author-link=David Stout
  
• |author-link=Eileen Sullivan
  
• |author-link=Jonathan Swan
  
• |author-link=Hiroko Tabuchi
  
• |author-link=Michael Tackett
  
• |author-link=Glenn Thrush
  
• |author-link=Shawn Tully
  
• |author-link=Karen Tumulty
  
• |author-link=Megan Twohey
  
• |author-link=Nadia Urbinati
  
• |author-link=Kenneth P. Vogel
  
• |author-link=Kenneth T. Walsh
  
• |author-link=David Weigel
  
• |author-link=Richard Winger
  
• |author-link=Patrick Wintour
  
• |author-link=Julia Carrie Wong
  
• |author-link=Christopher Zara
  
• |author-link=Jeff Zeleny

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Note

Notes

Roy Cohn

Hi. Kai Bird and Susan Goldmark's biography of Mr. Cohn came out yesterday. It contains a few changes for the Real estate section. Can someone with access tell me please if the Washington Post attributes the Commodore Hotel deal to Fred Trump's backing as our article says? Our other source, a New York (magazine) article, agrees with Bird/Goldmark, that the deal was Donald and Roy Cohn. (Both describe the Donald and Fred meeting with Mayor Beame.)

The financing was aided by a $400 million city property tax abatement arranged for him by his father, who also, jointly with Hyatt, guaranteed a $70 million bank construction loan.

Sources

-SusanLesch (talk) 18:05, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

This is the text in the Washington Post:

Extended content

The building of the Grand Hyatt hotel in 1978 near New York’s Grand Central station was a key element of Trump’s first big deal in Manhattan — obtaining an option on old Penn Central railroad properties. The new hotel, which replaced an aging Commodore property, helped put Trump on the map.

There was a nearly $1 million loan from Trump’s father that was part of the deal — Fred Trump’s Village Construction Corp. provided the loan to help repay draws on a Chase Manhattan credit line that Fred Trump had arranged for his son as he built the hotel. But that loan was only a small part of the father’s involvement in the deal.

Trump’s father — whose name had been besmirched in New York real estate circles after investigations into windfall profits and other abuses in his real estate projects — was an essential silent partner in Trump’s initiative. In effect, the son was the front man, relying on his father’s connections and wealth, while his father stood silently in the background to avoid drawing attention to himself.

Fred Trump — along with the Hyatt hotel chain — jointly guaranteed the $70 million construction loan from Manufacturers Hanover bank, “each assuming a 50 percent share of the obligation and each committing itself to complete the project should Donald be unable to finish it,” according to veteran Trump chronicler Wayne Barrett in his 1992 book, “Trump: The Deals and the Downfall.”

Fred Trump’s signature on the guarantee ensured the new hotel would get built. “No document in the long paper trail attached to the Commodore deal better demonstrated the lack of bank confidence in the Donald or the project, and none made clear the limits of his promoter role,” Barrett wrote. Trump simply did not have the credit or connections to obtain such financing on his own. “It was Fred’s two-decade-old relationship with a top Equitable officer, Ben Holloway, that had helped entice them to do the project.”

Doesn't mean that Cohn wasn't involved in brokering the tax abatement and building approvals. The article factchecked Trump's claim that "he built his empire with a 'small loan' from his father". Space4TCatHerder🖖 23:03, 2 September 2026 (UTC)

Thank you! I'll check Barrett's book as well before suggesting that change. Is this too long (to replace Cohn taught Trump that life is transactional.)?

Trump learned from Cohn that life is transactional, that popular opinion is more important than a court of law, that fabrication can drown out facts, to evade paying bills and taxes, and to use the phone, leaving no paper trail.

-SusanLesch (talk) 02:40, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

I'd like to add that Cohn was instrumental in securing tax abatements for the Commodore and Trump Tower. And that Donald carried forward Fred's mob ties. Any problems here? -SusanLesch (talk) 14:11, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

I haven't read the new Cohn biography yet (still waiting for delivery), so for my part I can't say whether I'd challenge or not. I don't know whether Bird/Goldmark have new sources or whether their book is partially based on reporting we're already citing in the article or cited at one time before context was removed by our intrepid content trimmers (Cohn, introduced Trump to Roger Stone). Trump's "alleged" mob ties have also been reported before (buying overpriced concrete from a company controlled by mafia chieftains Anthony “Fat Tony” Salerno and Paul Castellano), including by Wayne Barrett in the 1980s and 1990s. What's the worst that can happen? If you're reverted, we'll meet back here . Space4TCatHerder🖖 14:53, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

I've only read the Trump sections. I imagine you could have helped Mr. Bird research this book as well or better than his wife did. By the way, why does Roger Stone matter enough to be named? -SusanLesch (talk) 19:17, 3 September 2026 (UTC)

P.S. I removed Mr. Stone (Stephen Miller and Russell Vought who have a greater influence aren't mentioned). Along with the Notes, Mr. Bird's acknowledgement chapter explains the sources of a lot of their research. -SusanLesch (talk) 23:01, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that Cohn deserves as much credit as the current paragraph in Real estate gives him (still waiting for the book). Trump biographer O'Brien says Trump's father was "much more important to Donald Trump's development than Roy Cohn" and that Trump viewed Cohn as a facilitator.

November 18, 2024, PBS O'Brien interview with transcript

I think he grew up with a very demanding and randomly abusive father who had high expectations of all the children, and some of the kids in the Trump family suffered and bent, and some even broke under that pressure. I think Fred Trump was fortunate in that he found in Donald this mass of clay that he could set in motion. And you can’t explain Donald entirely without Fred. He’s much more important to Donald Trump’s development than Roy Cohn. I think Donald Trump recognized in Roy Cohn a facilitator, but Fred Trump is the person who molded the clay. ...

Donald Trump once looked at me in the back of one of his cars, and he said, “The thing I really like about Roy is he would brutalize for you; he would brutalize people for you.”And I think in the way that his father taught him how you could weaponize business relationships and public subsidies and contracts and your own will to forge ahead in business deals, Roy Cohn taught him how to weaponize the legal system, and that the simple filing of a court case, whether or not the case had merit, or whether or not you even intended to see it through to the end, that the mere filing of a complaint in a courtroom freaks out a lot of people, and that could solve a lot of your problems.If you’re unsatisfied with how a business partner treated you, how a romantic partner treated you, how the media treated you, you could just use the court as yet another cannon in your artillery. ...

He was a very good salesman, but he wasn’t a very good businessman.

O'Brien was a 2006 target of Trump's "harassment via lawsuit" for writing that Trump was worth between $150 and $250 million instead of $6 billion, as Trump had claimed. Trump lost the case and his appeal. He [said in an interview] in 2016: "But you can’t win that kind of a lawsuit. But I enjoyed bringing it anyway because it cost him a lot of money."

If you look at Fred Trump's biography, Rise to success and Further enterprises sections, it's all there, from windfall gains when building government-subsidized housing to PR. Space4TCatHerder🖖 19:27, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

If you happen to read The New York Times, we are in a bit of a Cohn bubble. The paragraph you mention has very little that's new: Cohn taught "that popular opinion is more important than a court of law,[26] that fabrication can drown out facts,[27] to leave no paper trail,[28] and to evade paying bills and taxes." I can support adding more Fred but ask that we preserve what we had before this thread (except Mr. Stone) and keep the one sentence I added to §Real estate. -SusanLesch (talk) 22:23, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

New featured interview with Kai Bird on PBS News Hour on Wednesday night about the book. It does not appear to be very flatering to Cohn on several counts. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:44, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

A video of that piece. -SusanLesch (talk) 04:35, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

Turns out I added a smidgen more about Fred (mob connections). I'm not 100% confident about my reordering. Space4TCatHerder, may I suggest you get your copy of the book before starting to fix these paragraphs?

Before

Roy Cohn, Trump's most important early influence after his father, was his fixer, lawyer, and mentor for 13 years in the 1970s and 1980s. Cohn taught Trump that life is transactional. In 1973, Cohn helped Trump countersue the U.S. government for $100 million (equivalent to $725 million in 2025) over its charges that Trump's properties had discriminated against Black applicants and tenants. The case was settled in a consent decree agreeing to desegregate, which the Trumps ended up in court four years later for violating. Helping Trump projects, Cohn was a consigliere whose Mafia connections controlled construction unions. In 1979, Cohn introduced political consultant Roger Stone to Trump, who enlisted Stone's services to deal with the federal government.

Trump showed a propensity for litigation, no matter the outcome and cost; even when he lost, he described the case as a win. Between 1991 and 2009, Trump filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection for six of his businesses: the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan, the casinos in Atlantic City, New Jersey, and the Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts company.

After

Roy Cohn, Trump's most important early influence after his father, was his fixer, lawyer, and mentor for 13 years in the 1970s and 1980s. Cohn taught Trump that life is transactional, that popular opinion is more important than a court of law, that fabrication can drown out facts, to leave no paper trail, and to evade paying bills and taxes. Trump showed a propensity for litigation, no matter the outcome and cost; even when he lost, he described the case as a win.In 1973, Cohn helped Trump countersue the U.S. government for $100 million (equivalent to $725 million in 2025) over its charges that Trump's properties had discriminated against Black applicants and tenants. The case was settled in a consent decree agreeing to desegregate, which the Trumps ended up in court four years later for violating. Cohn was a consigliere and intermediary with whom Trump continued his father's connection to the New York Mafia, benefiting from its control of the building trade unions.

Between 1991 and 2009, Trump filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection for six of his businesses: the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan, the casinos in Atlantic City, New Jersey, and the Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts company.

-SusanLesch (talk) 04:35, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

Wasn't planning on doing anything before I've looked at Bird's sources. Another Trump biographer, Michael D'Antonio, also credits Trump's boarding school, NYMA, for some of Trump's world view and behavior. Space4TCatHerder🖖 17:56, 10 September 2026 (UTC)

D'Antonio's book on Trump in 2016 Never Enough: Donald Trump and the Pursuit of Success has its own Wikipedia article as linked. ErnestKrause (talk) 08:47, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

Sources

You two are just a shining example of Wikipedia collaboration. ―Mandruss ☎ 2¢. IMO. 08:06, 11 September 2026 (UTC)

Space4TCatHerder, I don't understand your NYMA comment. A year ago we said Trump earned a B average there, sourced to Mr. Barrett, the only person to record a grade for Trump. Somebody removed it. (Grades are about 25% IQ so maybe with today's news we should put that back.😀) The Dobias stuff is in Early life and education of Donald Trump which doesn't hold back much. In any case what does NYMA have to do with slimming down mention of Roy Cohn? I moved Roy Cohn to §Real estate a year ago. Before then he was in §Legal affairs and bankruptcies. Why object now? -SusanLesch (talk) 22:42, 14 September 2026 (UTC)

Was Cohn Trump's most important early influence after his father or was it a meeting of minds, with Cohn mentoring Trump how to abuse the legal system to delay proceedings and intimidate, harass, and silence opponents who couldn't afford the legal expenses? I only mentioned NYMA because Trump was 27 and past his formative years when he met Cohn in 1973 and he and his Dad hired Cohn in the housing discrimination case. D'Antonio, for one, wrote in 2016 (see above link) that NYMA deserves a large part of the credit for "Trump's brutal worldview" by putting him in an all-male culture of competition and hierarchy ... an aggressive and isolate subculture that prized physical toughness and defined manhood in the basest terms ... an aggressive and isolate subculture that prized physical toughness and defined manhood in the basest terms ... One former cadet, who knew Trump at the academy, recalled for me a place that was supposed to civilize boys who were bullies and toughen up those who appeared to be weak. According to Sandy McIntosh, physical abuse was common, as were disappearances, as kids who couldn’t adjust ran away. McIntosh sees, in the NYMA way of life, a sensibility that would lead someone to accept torture as an effective interrogation tool. Also, how much does it matter how Trump became the person he became? Lots of men don't beat their wives and kids just because their Dad did. It's called free will. The emphasis on Cohn's influence seems a bit outside the scope of an encyclopedia. Space4TCatHerder🖖 13:39, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

Why do you object to Mr. Cohn now? He's been part of this article for years. Did you get American Scoundrel? -SusanLesch (talk) 16:02, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

And how much does it matter how Trump became the person he became? Remember you're asking in a biography. Editors remove the name of every influence on their subject's life to our detriment. -SusanLesch (talk) 20:49, 17 September 2026 (UTC)

It's a matter of WP:PROPORTION. Amazon pushed back delivery of the book from September 15–16 to "we'll let you know when we know". Space4TCatHerder🖖 17:48, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

Thank you. I know a good bookstore if you'd like their name. In CA. Usually worth the wait compared to Amazon https://warwicks.com/ . Kindly post your proposed paragraph here when you're able. Who knows, I might agree with you.

Proposed cut

-SusanLesch (talk) 18:57, 18 September 2026 (UTC)

There is nothing in the last 'cot' posted above this message. There are however at least six significant book reviews published about Kai Bird's new book summarized here: , and the book appears to be a bestseller. It might be worth suggesting that it would likely help readers to see a Wikipedia article about the book before discussing the edit on the Trump page here. Currently, the book is listed in the cites of the Trump page now without any mention of it in the main text? ErnestKrause (talk) 11:32, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

ErnestKrause, we have a communication failure perhaps. The above empty {{cot}} is provided for Space's use (see my last comment to him above). Wikipedia has no requirement that a book have its own article before it is cited as a source, and it would be a poor precedent to start now. The book is cited by page number eight times thus it appears in §Cited books. Finally, the book is listed in the Cohn article's §Further reading because though the authors are cited at least three times, they are sourced to news reports about the book (or possibly their New Yorker article). We're in a bit of a Cohn bubble. Hope this helps. -SusanLesch (talk) 13:56, 20 September 2026 (UTC) (P.S. I sometimes cite by phrase or clause. The Roy Cohn article has fewer instances of Bird/Goldmark citations because I didn't cite it.) -SusanLesch (talk) 14:06, 20 September 2026 (UTC)

Did Amazon fulfill this order? -SusanLesch (talk) 17:51, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

UN assertions and allegations

Do the following assertions and allegations made by the UN against the US and Trump belong in the Second presidency section of the main Trump article here:

In September 2026, a UN-commissioned fact-finding mission panel found "reasonable grounds" to believe that the United States had committed war crimes during military strikes in Iran during the 2026 Iran war. The report highlighted two February 28 strikes that killed at least 178 civilians. U.S. President Donald Trump's threats to completely destroy Iranian power plants and other essential infrastructure during the 2026 Iran war have been widely condemned by human rights organizations, legal experts, and lawmakers as potential war crimes.

Do other editors have opinions on this currently reported in the Wikipedia 2026 Iran war article? ErnestKrause (talk) 23:00, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

Possibly, although the paragraph you included is in need of condensing. Plus, it suffers from WP:OVERCITE. NesserWiki (talk) 23:07, 21 September 2026 (UTC)

Hi NesserWiki; That sounds good. If you can condense the prose and then trim some the citations, then you might place your version of the edit here for other editors to looks at in this thread. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:14, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

@ErnestKrause

In September 2026, a UN-commissioned panel found "reasonable grounds" to believe that the United States had committed war crimes during the war.

Summary of my recommendations:

A) keep the length to one sentence to avoid WP:EXCESSDETAIL regarding what the report stated

B) keep the Associated Press citation, remove the other ones. The AP citation is enough to prove the prose.

C) remove the sentence regarding Trump's threats entirely. Being condemned by some experts is certainly not notable to the same degree being condemned by a U.N.-backed commission is.

D) add to the pre-existing paragraph regarding the war. Don't add it as a separate paragraph. NesserWiki (talk) 02:20, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

It probably should be mentioned. For the second sentence, there should also be a brief mention of Trump's threat to wipe out Iranian civilization (the "a whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again" Tweet) which some compared to a threat of genocide and received global and bipartisan rebuke. BootsED (talk) 01:06, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

No as Trump is not the USA. Slatersteven (talk) 15:31, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

What about the part of the quote above which mentions his name using RS here: "Trump's threats to completely destroy Iranian power plants and other essential infrastructure during the 2026 Iran war have been widely condemned by human rights organizations...". ErnestKrause (talk) 15:50, 23 September 2026 (UTC)

The part that makes no mention of the UN, or of something he has actually done yet? Slatersteven (talk) 10:08, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

We can mention this but very briefly. I would propose something along the lines of:

"Trump's repeated threats to destroy civilian infrastructure and end Iranian "civilization" received widespread global rebuke. In September 2026, a UN-commissioned panel found "reasonable grounds" to believe that the United States had committed war crimes during the conflict."

The other sentences add too much detail to this page. This should be added on as an addendum to the existing paragraph, and not in a separate paragraph. BootsED (talk) 22:54, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Updated UN edit as modified by consensus

Should the following one sentence edit be added to the existing text regarding the 2026 Iran War in the main Trump biography (following NesserWiki comments above),

"In September 2026, a UN-commissioned panel found 'reasonable grounds' to believe that the United States had committed war crimes during the war. "

With or without adding the follow-up by Trump in the UN on Sept 22 stating,

"Trump then addressed the United Nations General Assembly at the Headquarters of the United Nations; he made multiple misleading claims and suggested he could 'annihilate the Islamic Republic' and 'drive them into hell with no chance of survival.'"

Do other editors have opinions on this updated addition to the main Trump article at this time? ErnestKrause (talk) 02:58, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

No, as one sentence is not about him, he is not the USA, and we already said his lies, no need to labour the point. Slatersteven (talk) 10:09, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Sources

Oppose adding the sentence about the report of the UN-commissioned panel (the U.N.'s "Independent International Fact-Finding Mission on the Islamic Republic of Iran", to be exact) at this time. "Reasonable grounds" means less than probable cause and more than mere suspicion, i.e., more investigation/evidence is needed. See also TIME magazine and Reuters.

Oppose the text about Trump's follow-up per WP:NOTNEWS and too much detail. Trump lies and threatens all the time. He's proclaimed victory or imminent victory and threatened annihilation how many times now? Never mind the venue, whether he's receiving the children, who won the Presidential Fitness Test, in the Oval Office or making a speech at the UN. Space4TCatHerder🖖 13:11, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Oppose Detailed play-by-plays of Trump's speeches are definitely WP:EXCESSDETAIL, barring exceptionally notable moments from exceptionally notable speeches (EX: Trump's "fight like hell" comment during his speech at the Ellipse on J6). His recent address at the U.N. doesn't come close to reaching that kind of notability, and very likely won't in the future.

NesserWiki (talk) 15:52, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Is that a oppose to the second part and a support for the first part which you suggested yesterday? ErnestKrause (talk) 16:03, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

I am going to suggest that not offering an opinion is not supporting a thing. Slatersteven (talk) 16:11, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Yes, I still support adding the sentence regarding the U.N.-backed commission. I do not support adding any other sentences. NesserWiki (talk) 17:18, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

I'm needing to Support NesserWiki; he seems to have this about right and I Support him. President Trump as the leader of the United States has had a major international organization point its finger at him in a harsh way which means that the first sentence from NesserWiki is particularly notable to inclusion in the Trump article here as stated. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:18, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Partial Support: The second sentence is too detailed. I would stick with your proposed UN sentence but add on the following above it:

"Trump's repeated threats to destroy civilian infrastructure and end Iranian "civilization" received substantial criticism from world leaders."

This would be more relevant than mentioning Trump's UN speech and broadly cover the same threats Trump has made, but in a summary-style format that mentions multiple threats throughout the entire conflict, rather than just at one event. BootsED (talk) 22:59, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

Edit is currently standing a 2 opposes and 3 supports; it might be useful to hear from 1 or 2 more editors on this. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:45, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Archive parameters I added, and consensus 25

I added archive parameters to 37 citations here earlier today and Space4Time3Continuum2x reverted them, correctly. I had read the editnotice but not the consensus 25 item it points to, which is my mistake and not a borderline call.

For the record, in case it is useful to anyone reviewing the diff: none of the 37 were confirmed dead links. Every one was a source returning HTTP 403 to an automated request while serving readers normally, mostly The New York Times, Politico and The Atlantic. My tooling flags those as unconfirmed rather than dead and attaches an archive as a backup with url-status=live, which is standard practice elsewhere but is exactly the case consensus 25 excludes. So the revert removed nothing that should have stayed.

I have added a check that skips this article in my reference-repair runs, so it will not recur. Thanks for the clean revert summary, it made the reason easy to find. KnowledgeMaple (talk) 21:58, 26 September 2026 (UTC)

KnowledgeMaple, thank you! Space4TCatHerder🖖 14:54, 27 September 2026 (UTC)

Travel ban on seven Muslim-majority countries in the lede

Most of the bans, controversial deportations, alleged human rights violations related to immigrants done by Trump have been to Christians and Christian-majority Latin American countries. So isn't putting "Muslim majority" in the lede but no mention of Christianity violating Wikipedia's NPOV policy?Crampcomes (talk) 20:02, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

"alleged human rights violations" Alleged? Is there actually any doubt about this? Dimadick (talk) 20:33, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

Venezuela, Chad, and North Korea as well. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:23, 28 September 2026 (UTC)

After the courts blocked Trump's first 2017 travel ban, which included green-card holders and people who had other valid visas, and the revised one was partially allowed by the Supreme Court, he issued another one in September, which exempted people with valid visas. Chad is also a majority Muslim country (and the large Christian minority is black, so there is that). The ban also included North Korea and "some officials from Venezuela", FWIW (fig leaf — how many North Koreans manage to flee their country?). Space4TCatHerder🖖 12:00, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

I reverted your bold edit of the lead. If the travel ban had been on "several countries" it's doubtful that it would have been lead-worthy. Space4TCatHerder🖖 12:00, 29 September 2026 (UTC)

President of the Unites States

According to the official White House X (Twitter) account, Donald Trump is now confirmed to be the President of the Unites States.

Note the "s" in "Unites".

Citation: https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/2105292669303791687 Reelix (talk) 15:02, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

A, this is not an RS, B, we already say he is president, C. we ignore typos. Slatersteven (talk) 15:19, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

It's a primary source, and I haven't seen any RS reporting this, i.e., "the technology is operating as intended". Apparently the leaders of the companies who wrote this screed for Trump's signature ("each of our companies are committed to doing this") didn't dare point out Natalie's typo. Space4TCatHerder🖖 20:54, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

Categories, first attempt at weeding over-categorization

I removed the following categories with the edit summary "Categories says that 'restraint should be exercised, as categories become less effective when an article is given numerous categories". Rmv categories that are not "central to categorizing the article.'"

List of removed categories

1. Category:1946 births
2. Category:20th-century American non-fiction writers
3. Category:20th-century Presbyterians
4. Category:21st-century American criminals
5. Category:21st-century American non-fiction writers
6. Category:21st-century Presbyterians
7. Category:American business writers
8. Category:American Internet company founders
9. Category:American people of German descent
10. Category:American people of Scottish descent
11. Category:Anti-globalization activists
12. Category:Businesspeople from Florida
13. Category:Former Presbyterians
14. Category:Illeists
15. Category:Anti-transgender activists
16. Category:New York (state) independents
17. Category:People of the Twelve-Day War
18. Category:Presbyterians from New York (state)
19. Category:Presbyterians from Florida
20. Category:Reform Party of the United States of America politicians
21. Category:Television producers from Florida
22. Category:Television personalities from Florida
23. Category:The Trump Organization employees

I didn't remove Category:American business writers, never mind that Trump didn't write any of the books himself and they're mostly fiction but meh.

Except for #12, Businesspeople from Florida, all were reinserted in this edit with the edit summary "Restraint should be exercised" mostly refers to the fact that an article should not be included both into a category and its subcategory. This doesn't apply to most of those. This is an opinion not supported by the guideline. IMO, the paragraph following the one-sentence paragraph I quoted in my edit summary deals with a different point or idea.

Categories quote in context

A category is probably inappropriate if:

• N It is possible to write a few paragraphs or more on the subject of a category in an article or elsewhere.
• N If a reader visited the article via the category and it does not relate to the category subject.

An article will often be in several categories. However, restraint should be exercised, as categories become less effective when an article is given numerous categories.

An article should usually not be in both a category and its subcategory. For example, Microsoft Office is in Category:Microsoft software and should not also be in Category:Software—except when the article defines a category as well as being in a higher category. For instance, Ohio is in both Category:States of the United States and Category:Ohio. This exception is understood in that if an article exists before a category is created on the same subject, it should not cause the article to be removed from any of its existing categories.

Does the third bullet point of WP:CATDEF apply to the above categories? Quote: Defining characteristics of an article's topic are central to categorizing the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently refer to[2] in describing the topic, such as the nationality of a person or the geographic location of a place. Example: 20th-century Presbyterians, 21st-century Presbyterians, Presbyterians from New York (state), Presbyterians from New York (state), Former Presbyterians. That's a lot of Presbyterianism for someone who can't cite a single Bible verse and attended a Reformed church because of Norman Vincent Peale. See also WP:NONDEF: if the characteristic would not be appropriate to mention in the lead section of an article (regardless of whether it is currently mentioned in the lead), it is probably not defining. Space4TCatHerder🖖 20:43, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

You are wasting your time. I doubt that this article's major problem is overcategorization. The main problem is that the article has way too much content, instead of relegating most of the details to sub-articles. Dimadick (talk) 20:52, 30 September 2026 (UTC)

"The main problem is that the article has way too much content...". ErnestKrause (talk) 00:30, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

A quick clarification, but as stated in prior conversations, this article is actually much smaller than several other pages about American presidents. BootsED (talk) 01:29, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

"Donald Trum" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Donald Trum has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2026 October 2 § Donald Trum until a consensus is reached. International Fujita scale (talk) 21:17, 2 October 2026 (UTC)