Talk:Colonial National Invitation

Invitation vs. Invitational (1988 and older)

A couple of edits have attempted to change the spelling of the Colonial National Invitation to the Colonial National Invitational. I compiled some evidence to show that it was, in fact, the Invitation, and I'd like to show it here for future reference (and to those who attempt to 'fix' the spelling):

From PGATour.com:

• The idea for the Colonial National Invitation Golf Tournament was conceived in 1941 after the U.S. Open championship was held here. 1
• The birth of the Colonial event, however, was delayed five years due to World War II. In the meantime, members planned to emulate the very best, the Masters Tournament, which had begun in 1934. Colonial even adopted part of that tournament's original name, the "Invitation Tournament." 2
• 1978 Colonial National Invitation. (along with many more than Mr. Trevino, 3
• Nelson didn't have much of a chance to win the Colonial National Invitation (now the Bank of America Colonial), 4

And on other sites:

• 1958 Tommy Bolt 282 Colonial National Invitation Tournament 5

See: Google Hits.

Hope this helps. :) -- DakPowers (Talk) 19:20, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

never mind. Crunch 20:02, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

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Article name

@Johnsmith2116: What's your reasoning in moving this article? Seems like we generally try to use un-sponsored names if possible, largely to prevent needing to move the page whenever the sponsor changes. pʰeːnuːmuː → pʰiːnyːmyː → ɸinimi → fiɲimi 18:22, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

I thought maybe someone was eventually going to change the name of the page. But, since no one had changed it, I went ahead and changed it myself. If it's better to have it the way it was before, go ahead and move it back to the way it was. Johnsmith2116 (talk) 18:38, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

@Phinumu: I'd argue that we're better going with the current tournament name in order to actually avoid confusion. All current media and promotion push to the current tournament name and most PGA TOUR deals are moving toward decade and longer deals. Conversely, in dealing with the history of events (I work for the TOUR), it is often difficult to pinpoint the "original" name of events due to their lengthy and varied history. I'd suggest going back to Charles Schwab Challenge for this one, especially given the current attention the event will get as the first full field event post 2020 pandemic. Abe Froemann (talk) 22:32, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Abe Froemann: Thanks for your disclosure. Articles should (almost) always be titled by application of article naming policy, and as such naming can be difficult for golf tournaments that switch sponsors but do not retain a generic element. We are all aware of the tour's commitment to their current sponsors, and tendency to refer to all past editions of tournaments using the current sponsors name, but that is not how things are out in the real world. As this tournament has been known as the "Charles Schwab Challenge" for just one year (coming up two), it is overwhelming not the WP:COMMONNAME for the tournament so we should not be using that (see also WP:RECENT). Despite not being titled as such for 25 years, I would say "Colonial National Invitation" is probably still the name that best meets naming policy. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 08:54, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Agreed on the Colonial National Invitation title (though the use of "Invitation" rather than "Invitational" bugs me). pʰeːnuːmuː → pʰiːnyːmyː → ɸinimi → fiɲimi 03:44, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Plus, "Colonial National Invitation" is what it (still) says on the trophy. Interesting to note that the PGA Tour also use the title: e.g. in 2016. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 08:36, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

@Phinmu: Thanks for the thought. And glad to tell you about the PGA TOUR affiliation. Didn't think of it so much disclosure as having some daily insight into details that might be helpful. We're definitely not shy about the way we deal with our sponsors - as you might imagine, in the current climate anything we can do in order to help those relationships is positive. But this is much more about two other things in my view:

1) My understanding about Wikipedia's philosophy of creating the world's largest encyclopedia in terms of breadth and depth would lead to the intention of keeping in formation as correct - current - as possible, not about making it easy to maintain. While I fully understand and experience the challenge of dealing with frequently updated information, I and others with the TOUR would be happy to keep an eye and make edits as changes happen. We'll definitely be the first to know such things and can add this stop to our workflow. We've historically stayed away from too much editing, deferring to the community. But if it is helpful we're willing and happy to contribute.

2) This to me really is about the ability to own one's identity. As examples, The pages for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Muhammad Ali don't force a redirection to Lew Alcindor an Cassius Clay. They chose their identities and modified them over time. While I fully recognize an event is not a person, events do have an identity and we should be able to own those identities.

Again, hoping to contribute to the discussion here and make the information better all around. And we at the TORU are glad to put effort behind this to contribute to that end. Abe Froemann (talk) 17:35, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

@Abe Froemann: – contributions are always welcome, but must be in accordance with policy; of particular relevance to your comments are WP:COI and WP:V. With regards to the latter, all contributions must be verifiable, via reliable sources (preferably independent of the subject). You've also hit the nail on the head with regards to comparisons with Abdul-Jabbar, Ali and others – WP has different naming policy for people. May also be worth noting that the length of title sponsorship deals is largely irrelevant since they can be torn up at any time; e.g. Dean & Deluca signed a six-year agreement that lasted only two. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 09:53, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 9 May 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) buidhe 03:54, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

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Fort Worth Invitational → Colonial National Invitation – Following on from the discussion above, it may be useful to formally discuss this so I am proposing a move to the neutral WP:COMMONNAME. This remains the name on the trophy (actually Colonial National Invitation Tournament, but the word "tournament" is generally left off by the media) and the PGA Tour have even continued to use this name (). The tournament is commonly referred to simply as "Colonial" (, , ) ahead of any sponsored name, so the title should certainly reflect that and this seems the most neutral. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 10:10, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

• Support Our general policy is to use "generic" type names for the articles where possible. After all this is an article about the event that's been going since 1946 and taking the long-term encyclopedic view we shouldn't be overly focused on the current name. I accept we're not 100% consistent about this but that is probably due lack of effort/interest. Nigej (talk) 11:46, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article name revisited

I somehow didn't notice when this article was moved a month ago... is "Charles Schwab Challenge at Colonial" really the WP:COMMONNAME? It seems like it would make more sense to either revert to the old name or remove "at Colonial". pʰeːnuːmuː →‎ pʰiːnyːmyː → ‎ɸinimi → ‎fiɲimi 04:14, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 1 June 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 16:52, 9 July 2026 (UTC)

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Charles Schwab Challenge at Colonial → Colonial National Invitation – Page was moved from the unsponsored name without discussion. If it's decided that the sponsored name is better, "at Colonial" should at least be removed from the title as that definitely isn't part of the official name or the common name. pʰeːnuːmuː →‎ pʰiːnyːmyː → ‎ɸinimi → ‎fiɲimi 03:45, 1 June 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. {{GearsDatapacks|talk|contribs|in solidarity}} 08:52, 8 June 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 13:11, 15 June 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPath^talk 07:59, 28 June 2026 (UTC)

• Move to Charles Schwab Challenge per nom. See WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NAMECHANGES. 162 etc. (talk) 04:01, 1 June 2026 (UTC)
• Comment: The undiscussed move was recent, so there is a presumption to revert if there is no clear consensus. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 04:18, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

It was actually moved over a year ago, which is a bit much for WP:RMUM. 162 etc. (talk) 16:48, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

Oh, you're right. My mistake. It was April of last year, not April of this year. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:26, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Charles Schwab Challenge or Colonial National Invitation? ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 13:11, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

• Support move (back) to Colonial National Invitation, per the May 2020 discussion above. We're an encyclopedia not a promotional vehicle for sponsors. We should avoid transient sponsored names whenever possible and this tournament is well known by it's generic name (which is the name that remains on the trophy). _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:19, 24 June 2026 (UTC)
• Support Colonial National Invitation per wjemather, return to status quo and remove branding. ASUKITE 14:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC)
• Comment Per WP:NAMECHANGES, "we give extra weight to (...) reliable sources (...) written after the name change." When sources "routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match." That is indeed the case here, and using "Colonial National Invitation" would be against policy. 162 etc. (talk) 14:25, 24 June 2026 (UTC)

  It wouldn't be against policy at all since the original name is still in use ("...reliable sources written after the name change... continue to use the established name..."), and in any case, these things are just transient title sponsorships not "new names" for the tournaments. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 10:49, 25 June 2026 (UTC)

I'm not seeing any evidence of "Colonial National Invitation" being predominantly used in present-day sources. Wikipedia follows what reliable sources use. 162 etc. (talk) 04:07, 26 June 2026 (UTC)

Doesn't need to be; and more importantly Wikipedia is not free advertising space. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 16:40, 28 June 2026 (UTC)

> "Doesn't need to be"

Of course it does. Per WP:COMMONNAME, " Wikipedia (...) prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources.)" 162 etc. (talk) 16:52, 28 June 2026 (UTC)

Sorry, but it doesn't seem like you are understanding the words you are quoting. "Wikipedia... prefers..."; ergo, doesn't need to be ("predominantly used in present-day sources"). _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:59, 29 June 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.