Talk:Charles Manson

average IQ

109 IQ is not considered above average. it is solidly within the 85 to 115 average range 96.240.150.22 (talk) 15:55, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

109 does appear to be within the average range so I've changed the article according to your advice. Crayonic (talk) 20:34, 7 July 2026 (UTC)

Article relies too heavily on biased source

I've noticed that the source "Bugliosi, Vincent; Gentry, Curt (1974). Helter Skelter: The True Story of the Manson Murders (1992 ed.). Norton. ISBN 0-09-997500-9." is referenced very frequently in this article, often as the only cited source for significant claims.

This book is by Vincent Bugliosi, who was the prosecutor who secured Manson's murder conviction. As a prosecutor, he was paid to view and portray Manson as negatively as possible, and he had a vested interest in the public perception of Manson and of his conviction.

Although the book seems to be popular and widely cited by the press—and although for all I know it could well be correct on every particular—I do not think we should be treating this book as a neutral or unbiased source, given this article concerns a real person, and especially not for so many different claims, including negative claims about other people involved in the case (such as Leona Stevens), some of whom may still be living people (in which case the real living persons standards for references apply). Vsst (talk) 22:18, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

I assume you're talking about the huge selling award-winning book Helter Skelter (book) that's used for first accounts in this article? Moxy🍁 22:42, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Bugliosi is not unbiased, though his work is a RS for straight facts, and certainly a source for Bugliosi's personal opinions. But he's not neutral, and his 'Helter Skelter' theory of the case has always been met with a fair degree of skepticism. Feoffer (talk) Feoffer (talk) 08:23, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

I see you have been around for some time, but I will still drop a link here: Wikipedia:Systemic bias. Content necessarily reflects the bias in a source, and while we may strive for it, pure neutrality simply does not exist, imho. I may be biased, though. Lectonar (talk) 08:53, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

I agree 100%. I was just confirming for Vsst that we're not naïve about Bugliosi's bias. We use him, like all sources, with a measure of caution. Feoffer (talk) 12:48, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

"cult"?

I ask you remove that definition of:"cult" from this missive. a Cult is merely an organization with a membership and an initiation rite. Some, usually we Americans, twist it to a colloquialism that reeks of "oc Cult", and evil. Some limit it to worship of a Living leader. Again, Not Necessarily So. Not Necessarily. The original definition was from Greek Cult ure, meaning peoples. It meant a belief or system not in the mainstream or in a minority. The early followers of Jesus and even early Christians, until about 360 AD, were a "cult". 2600:1011:A03D:CCC3:6C6A:7D8E:4C5A:838B (talk) 13:44, 14 October 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 October 2025

In the legacy music part, I think it is worthy to mention the band "Death Grips" who used an audio clip sample from an interview with Manson as their the intro for the first song "Beware" of of their debut mixtape "Exmilitary". 89.138.168.9 (talk) 18:04, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. meamemg (talk) 18:41, 21 October 2025 (UTC)