Talk:Black hat (computer security)

Requested move 11 July 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Move the dab page to Black hat. It appears we have consensus that the name is ambiguous, so this is the default solution. Cúchullain ^t/c 14:01, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

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Black hat (computer security) → Black hat – User PBS unilaterally moved the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC without discussion, creating a WP:MALPLACED pair of disambiguation pages. This should be moved only with consensus through a requested move. — Gorthian (talk) 04:30, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:44, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

• @Gorthian and PBS: Or move Black hat (disambiguation) to Black hat? Is the meaning "a hacker who violates computer security for personal gain or maliciousness" a dominant meaning, or not? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:47, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Survery

• PBS clearly thought that the hacker meaning was not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC when they moved the page. But it left Black hat (disambiguation) as the dab page, with Black hat redirecting to it, which is WP:MALPLACED. Perhaps there is no primary topic; in which case, yes, Black hat (disambiguation) should be moved to the base name. I have no opinion on the primary topic; I’m just trying to rectify the dab-page problem. — Gorthian (talk) 05:14, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
• Comment. I did not move the dab page as I thought that if someone objected to the move they could always change the redirect before requesting a move back. If I had moved the dab page to the redirect then it would have explicitly involved using administrative powers to which I thought that someone might object. The outcome of this RM can decide if the dab page should be moved. What I did was using AWB change all the links in article space that linked to black hat to link to Black hat (computer security) or to a redirect to Black hat (computer security), so that none of the links in article space would be linking to the dab page. -- PBS (talk) 16:28, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
• Comment. The problem is that "back hat" is very difficult common term to do an internet search on to ascertain what if anything is that primary topic for such a phrase. For example black hats are probably the second most common colour for military headgear after green hats. As a visual idiom it is probably best know a symbol for bad in cowboy movies (indeed this article used to make that point in 2008). Outside a very limited number of people who work in the computer security industry it is not used to mean a computer "hacker" as news sources call such people. With regards to Wikipedia policy WP:AT states in the first two bullet points under WP:NAMINGCRITERIA:

  • Recognizability – The title is a name or description of the subject that someone familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject area will recognize.
  • Naturalness – The title is one that readers are likely to look or search for and that editors would naturally use to link to the article from other articles. Such a title usually conveys what the subject is actually called in English.

  And the last one one:

  • Consistency -- as with White hat (computer security) and the dab White hat

  So we have to assume that the person looking for the article is not an expert on "black hat hack[er]"ing and a "back hat" is also a common term outside the computer industry, therefore it is not unreasonable for there to be a dab extension at "black hat". -- PBS (talk) 16:28, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

• Support making black hat the dab page. -- PBS (talk) 16:28, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
• Support making black hat the dab page per WP:NOPRIMARY._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 00:06, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Discussion

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.