Talk:Askal

Requested move 7 December 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: closed as not moved. Favonian (talk) 21:44, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

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Askal → Street dogs of the PhilippinesStreet dogs of the Philippines – As stated in WP:UE (Use English) we should be using English titles for articles when possible, Askal and Aspin are both Filipino portmanteaus, that are unknown to most English speakers Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 21:14, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Askal = Aso (dog)+ Kalye (street) - Aspin = Aso (dog) + Pinoy (Filipino) - these are certainly not English language terms, and the term Street dogs of the Philippines is a very standard and easily understandable title for English speakers. Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 21:18, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose previous RM was in support for the move. Looks like the name is also used in English sources.--Ortizesp (talk) 23:24, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose as WP:UE holds. "Askal" is the name used in English language sources. See also, the Spanish-derived English name of "San Francisco". Howard the Duck (talk) 00:07, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose - unknown to most English speakers appears not to be the case, based on my searches; indeed the term is generally offered in combination with the generic (i.e., "which are known as Askal"), which is a pretty good indicator that it constitutes a more precise identifier. English title != Anglo-Saxon; it means, in use in English discourse. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 00:35, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Looks like the name is also used in English sources." almost every source given is a Filipino source, not a native English source. San Francisco is very well known to English speakers, as are karaoke, spaghetti and champagne - Askal/Aspin isn't.

"(i.e., "which are known as Askal")," which is exactly why we shouldn't use Askal/Aspin - the fact that a source has to explain what Askal is, shows that it's not a well known term. Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 08:12, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Also, the fact that it isn't called Askal in Cebuano makes it clear that it isn't even universally used in the Philippines. Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 08:16, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

What Wikipedia policy or guideline are you grounding this argument on? Howard the Duck (talk) 13:56, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

WP:ENGLISH and WP:TRANSLITERATE Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 14:29, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

The thesis statement of WP:ENGLISH is "The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language". There's an argument that either "askal" or "aspin" is the name most commonly used in the English language. Your preferred title clearly simply is not is.

The thesis statement of WP:TRANSLITERATE is "The choice between anglicized and local spellings should follow English-language usage. Again, either "askal" or "aspin" follow English language usage.

Neither says we should follow "a native English source", but of course, it's not available in translated words such as this one. A Filipino source that is in the English language perfectly suffices.

The fact that it isn't called "askal" in Cebuano doesn't matter what this article is named in the English wikipedia... probably in the Cebuano Wikipedia? Howard the Duck (talk) 14:35, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Neither Askal nor Aspin follow English usage. Oxford, Cambridge, Merriam Webster all come up with no result for askal.

There are however sources that support the use of Street dogs

"The fact that it isn't called "askal" in Cebuano doesn't matter what this article is named in the English wikipedia... probably in the Cebuano Wikipedia?" are you joking? Are you suggesting that in English language Wikipedia, Tagalog is acceptable but Cebuano isn't?

Just give it up, buddy - this is English language Wikipedia, go make an Askals article on Tagalog Wikipedia. Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 14:47, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

References

I dunno if I have bad reading comprehension. Last time I checked, this is an encyclopedia, not a dictionary.

There are plenty more sources that specifically call street dogs in the Philippines as "askals". We have an entire article of it here.

If you can find reliable sources that specifically use the Cebuano name as the most prevalent for this type of dog, you can make another RM to make that move. If the Ilocano name is the most prevalent name in English for this type of dog, then that's where the article name should be. It isn't, so.

You can ask someone from WP:AN in helping in closing this discussion. It's quite clear where the consensus lies. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:05, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

(Personal attack removed) It's quite clear where the consensus lies. Oh, I get it - you say there is consensus, so I'm supposed to go along with that? That isn't how consensus works, buddy. Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 17:02, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Buddy, I give up. go ask someone to close this RM at WP:AN. Howard the Duck (talk) 17:06, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Sure, we can request this to be closed if you're conceding that my request moved is for the best. Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 17:17, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

I'd concede that every RM is judged by its initiator to be for the best. Howard the Duck (talk) 17:19, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

You have more faith in human nature than I do. I do however know my RM is made with the best of intentions. Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 17:23, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose - I'm not that familiar with how wiki discussion format works but based on the arguments here Kintsugi should be renamed "golden joinery". I think it doesn't matter if "Askal" is a portmanteau or not if it's widely used in a certain English speaking community, native or non-native, it should not be renamed. Do I need to vote here I don't know how any of these works. SciPunk (talk) 17:37, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

@SciPunk: It makes it easier for whoever assesses the outcome if you provide a bolded one word summary of your stance, in the manner of "oppose" or "support". --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 18:09, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

I think it doesn't matter if "Askal" is a portmanteau or not if it's widely used in a certain English speaking community, native or non-native, it should not be renamed. - unfortunately, Wikipedia has rules and guidelines that don't agree with you, go change those rules if you disagree with them. ...but based on the arguments here Kintsugi should be renamed "golden joinery". - you mean how Wikipedia doesn't have fujisan or nihon articles, but does have Mount Fuji and Japan articles. Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 21:13, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose per the above arguments that have already been repeated a sufficient number of times. This discussion wouldn't have been opened if Sennen goroshi didn't have such a bad case of WP:IDHT. Lepricavark (talk) 17:58, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose this is an article on street dogs of the Philippines, so logically, Filipino English would be used in this article per WP:ENGVAR. I've seen no evidence that Askal is not considered an English word in the Philippines. Nil Einne (talk) 16:46, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Askals or aspins are mongrel dogs in the Philippines.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:08, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

Aspin as the name of the article

This article should be name as Aspin because dog owners or lovers in the Philippines are normalizing to call them aspin because they are "asong pinoy" not "asong kalye" or street dog. Abskiee (talk) 17:15, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

Unfortunately I have yet to find reliable sources proving that aspin is now the preferred term over askal in everyday language. All news articles discussing terminology refer back to the campaign by PAWS to use aspin over askal, which isn't necessarily reflective of actual vernacular usage.

Happy to support the term change though if we can find other good sources. To disclose, I also prefer the term aspin, but we need to follow the status quo terminology to avoid bias. PaoloBarts (talk) 06:27, 27 July 2025 (UTC)