Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christopher Shale

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.‎

The result was keep. Spartaz ^Humbug! 04:08, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Christopher Shale

Christopher Shale (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Non-notable local political activist, who is receiving basic coverage due to the somewhat unusual circumstances of his death (WP:1E) and his acquaintance with the British Prime Minister (WP:NOTINHERITED). GiantSnowman 20:57, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

• Keep It's less than 24 hours since he died and he has already received serious media coverage, it was the first item on Channel 4 news. Let's see how this pans out. PatGallacher (talk) 21:23, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

• WP:CRYSTAL - oh, and he hasn't received "serious media coverage", his death has. Major difference. GiantSnowman 21:29, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

• Keep*- His connection to David Cameron and political defection makes him notable enough V. Joe (talk) 21:24, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

• WP:NOTINHERITED. GiantSnowman 21:26, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

• Delete chairman of the West Oxfordshire constituency association and political aide fails WP:GNG and all the additional coverage is related to the death circumstances, but we don't include people notable only for one event or lacking substantial coverage. Hekerui (talk) 21:37, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

• Surely we should redirect this to a page about The death of Christopher Shale or similar? esperant 21:44, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

• Keep for the moment. Kittybrewster ☎ 21:39, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

• Again, that violates WP:CRYSTAL. GiantSnowman 21:43, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

• Keep per others, particularly because of his connection to Cameron. If we are unhappy with this as a standalone article, let's have one for West Oxfordshire Conservative Association, which does deserve one, again because of its link to Cameron. We could then redirect Shale's article to that. And we do have other Conservative Association articles before anyone asks. TheRetroGuy (talk) 22:04, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

• I'm voting meh. He is almost certainly not notable as a local party chairman, nor for the circumstances of his death (which do not appear to be certain at this point anyway). He might, though, be notable as a businessman: he set up a very successful public relations company, which was at one point one of the biggest in Britain, and later became managing director then Chief Executive of a management consultancy company. He also has some involvement in politics as a business supporter of the Conservative Party. Sam Blacketer (talk) 22:09, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Update: There is an obituary in this morning's Times, generally a marker for notability. May be some other papers as well (although the Telegraph obituaries have gone down in value since Hugh Massingberd died). Sam Blacketer (talk) 00:01, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

• Delete - not significant as a politician, has not become notable through his death. (Contrast, say, Stephen Milligan, who was an MP when he died and therefore notable besides the event of his death.) Yes, this story may become important enough to deserve an article if it turns out there's more to it, but at it hasn't yet: at the moment it's just 'minor politician dies'. Robofish (talk) 22:12, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

  As an aside, if it is kept, it should be renamed to 'Death of Christopher Shale' and rewritten accordingly, along the lines of Death of Gareth Williams. Robofish (talk) 22:12, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

  Or as an afterthought, an alternate solution: merge to Glastonbury Festival 2011. A person dying at Glastonbury is certainly unusual, and quite possibly worthy of a mention in that page. Robofish (talk) 22:15, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

  People die at music festivals every year - two at last year's Glastonbury. Nothing special about this other than the fact it was a 50-year-old man in the VIP area toilets as opposed to some 20-year-old kid ODing. GiantSnowman 22:42, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

  I stand corrected, and have struck part of my comment above. Deletion remains my first preference here, merging to the Glastonbury article would be my second. Robofish (talk) 23:10, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

  Snowman, just a heads up, but you've no need to rebuff everyone's comments. Take a look at this essay for some advice and guidelines. TheRetroGuy (talk) 23:01, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

  Thanks for the link, I realised that after I'd replied to a couple, hence why I've toned it down a bit! Cheers, GiantSnowman 23:21, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

  No worries, it's an easy trap to fall into sometimes. Cheers TheRetroGuy (talk) 15:51, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

• Merge with Glastonbury Festival 2011 as per Robofish's suggestion - Not notable outside of his death, which appears natural and not notable as an event in its own right. If it turns out the death is suspicious, it may quality for its own page; otherwise WP:CRYSTAL clearly applies. Nigholith (talk) 22:22, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
• Userfy to whomever created the stub. This article is not notable at this time, and so shouldn't be included as yet. But it is possible that it will become notable, and in that case it can back into the main article space as 'Death of Christopher Shale" or the like. Userfying will give the creator an opportunity to use the content already there should this death become notable. If it does not become notable but gets moved anyway, we can revisit its deletion at that time. Wabbott9 (talk) 23:15, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 02:22, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

• Delete clearly fails WP:POLITICIAN. Only claims to notability are that he was an associate of someone famous, which doesn't make him notable in his own right and that he died at a music festival, which is not sufficient for an article either. Such coverage that exists so far is covered by WP:NOTNEWS and WP:ONEEVENT as there is no evidence of lasting notability. All this is best covered by a line in the Glastonbury festival article. Change to Keep Guardian profile and obituaries in the Independent and Times establish notability per WP:GNG. Valenciano (talk) 07:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
• Delete Fails WP:POLITICIAN. Not notable in his own right. His death, sad as it is, does not appear to be a notable event (natural causes and no apparent significant political consequences) and fails WP:NOTNEWS. It may be worth a sentence in the Glastonbury 2011 article and perhaps the David Cameron article (although I suspect in the context of those articles the event may not seem particularly notable). Probably no need to keep this as a redirect to one of those articles. At this time it seems unlikely to be a common search.--SabreBD (talk) 09:30, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 02:22, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 02:22, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

• Keep - because if it's deleted from Wikipedia it'll cause conspiracy theories as there were over David Kelly. Important because of his comments to a national party newspaper about Conservative Party membership shortly before he died and close links to Prime Minister. Chair of a local Conservative association is not a politician so WP:POLITICIAN doesn't apply, just an office-holder within a political party. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.111.82 (talk) 09:27, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
• Temporary Keep, simply because it's not worth an edit war over this one at the moment. If this story sinks without trace, we can always consider a merge to Glastonbury 2011 or something similar. Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 09:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

• Merge with Glastonbury Festival 2011. This article may not meet the standards but it is still some pretty useful information. The Toxic Mite ^{t | c} 10:16, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
• Keep - clearly notable now.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:36, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
• Comment - as nominator, I would accept a merge with Glastonbury Festival 2011. GiantSnowman 14:37, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
• Keep It doesn't look like 1E to me, he received coverage as a businessman back in the 90s, as well. Qrsdogg (talk) 17:22, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
• Delete Certainly not notable in his political capacity, and nor as a businessman as far as I can tell. Could be mentioned in the Glastonbury Page, but I wouldn't demand that either. EJBH (talk) 23:45, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
• KEEP The sad circumstances of Shale's death has generated significant media coverage (google news lists over 1200 articles), coupled with the issue of the leaked 'strategy document' which was released days before he passed away. Whether he would have warranted an article had he not died is questionable, but it seems very clear to me that the circumstances of his death are clearly notable, especially considering no formal cause of death has been listed. If the Giant Snowman is concerned that the person himself is not notable, it could perhaps be moved to a page called Death of Christopher Shale, but I would imagine that this page would have to become a redirect anyway. He may have only been a local politician, but influential and notable due to his links to Cameron. If his strategy report was notable enough to cause a stir in the Mail on Sunday before his death was ever made public, surely this means the whole (WP:1E) charge is slightly absurd. Jeremy Wordsworth (talk) 10:59, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
• Keep Obituary in The Independent and a Guardian profile suggest sufficient notability for an article. Philip Cross (talk) 11:33, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
• Keep The UK Prime Minister called him a 'rock'. His death coinciding with the leak to the Mail on Sunday is mysterious enough to be of interest, even if it is just a coincidence, so at the very least move to Death of Christopher Shale. Wavehunter (talk) 16:07, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
• Keep. The late Mr Shale was a local Conservative Association friend of the current British Prime Minister. In retrospect and in the context of future biographical details about David Cameron, Mr Shales' role may turn out to be more strategically or biographically important than current available information describes. I would argue that it is premature to delete the article on this basis.Calibanu (talk) 00:33, 29 June 2011 (UTC)User Calibanu

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.