Talk:The Queen Is Dead

Temporary hatnote?

Given what just happened, it's likely people will be searching on this phrase. Should we put in a temporary hatnote to redirect them to what they might well want to read? Daniel Case (talk) 18:08, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

This has been done. Daniel Case (talk) 22:09, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:The Queen Is Dead/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Cathodography (talk · contribs) 16:29, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

Reviewer: LastJabberwocky (talk · contribs) 20:02, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi, picking up your nomination! I make minor edits myself, if you disagree we can discuss these edits here. —LastJabberwocky (talk) 20:02, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

I think the article is in a good state. Thank you for your work, closing my review! —LastJabberwocky (talk) 17:24, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Background and recording

..under the working title "Margaret on the Guillotine". Just to double check; are you sure this "Margaret" is Margaret Thatcher, the source writes about that? —LastJabberwocky (talk) 20:02, 1 May 2025 (UTC) Pending

• I don't have access to the book, but I'll assume that it does refer to Thatcher. Another book says that its title is a reference to Margaret Clitherow, but a quick Google search with "Margaret on the Guillotine" "Clitherow" only gives three hits, though a Rolling Stone article says it's after Thatcher (also given by 5,000 Google hits). I'm not sure if the source directly refer to her. Cattos^💭 22:45, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

  I also checked for "Margaret on the Guillotine" (including EBSCO database) and the sources only mention either that the original title was "Margaret on the Guillotine" or that "Margaret on the Guillotine" is 1988 song about Margaret Thatcher from Viva Hate. They don't connect the two. I think we should unlink Margaret, cite this source for Viva Hate, and rephrase it to: under the working title "Margaret on the Guillotine", which was later used for Morrissey's song about Margaret Thatcher from his 1988 album Viva Hate. —LastJabberwocky (talk) 07:41, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

• Done Cattos^💭 15:45, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Composition

Simon Reynolds highlighted how Morrissey's lyrics, inspired by both absurd humour and serious reflection, positioned the singer as a "spurned savior" of British music. The source doesn't directly say that the lyrics positioned him as a spurned savior, but I think you right. In any case we should rephrase the sentence, probably moving "spurned savior" critical reception and merge Simon Reynolds with the previous sentence describing the lyrics in a similar manner. —LastJabberwocky (talk) 20:02, 1 May 2025 (UTC)  Done

• Done Cattos^💭 22:45, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

The first of these is reputed to have been addressed to Geoff Travis, head of the Smiths' record label Rough Trade, however Morrissey denies this. With this the source mentions Morrissey's response to the the speculations. Do we have source for the speculations themselves? Also are you sure morrisseycentral.com is reliable; Morrissey's response feels like a tweet, if it is I would cite the tweet directly. —LastJabberwocky (talk) 20:02, 1 May 2025 (UTC)  Done

• Added a Spin magazine referring the speculation. morrisseycentral.com seems like a primary source; replaced with a NME article. Cattos^💭 22:45, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

"A few songs, including "The Queen Is Dead" and "Bigmouth Strikes Again", feature pitch-shifted backing vocals.." and until the end of the paragraph. I think this one closer to recording and can be merged with a similar idea in "Background and recording". —LastJabberwocky (talk) 20:02, 1 May 2025 (UTC)  Done

• Done Cattos^💭 22:45, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

Release

"favoured releasing "There Is a Light That Never Goes Out" as the lead single, but Johnny Marr insisted on "Bigmouth Strikes Again", believing it was a more energetic and striking choice that better represented the band's sound, though it was not released as a single until 12 October 1992.." "There Is a Light That Never Goes Out" or "Bigmouth Strikes Again" not released as a single until 12 October 1992? "Though" better works with "Bigmouth.." but the right answer seems to be "There is a Light.." —LastJabberwocky (talk) 20:02, 1 May 2025 (UTC)  Done

• It seems that "There is a Light.." was the one released in 12 October 1992. Rephrased Cattos^💭 22:45, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

Links

• Some of the sources are bare-linked. —LastJabberwocky (talk) 20:10, 1 May 2025 (UTC) Pending

• Some magazine sources don't have their pages cited. I wish i could fill them in but I unfortunately don't have access to Rock's Backpages. These citations were already that way before I had expanded the album, for some reason. I have applied for access on the Wikipedia Library 15 days ago, and it's still pending. If you have access to it, it would really help (if not, I'll ask someone else) Cattos^💭 15:45, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

• Scratch that. I found the pages for some of them. I couldn't find the page for i-D Magazine, though it is irrelevant to the composition so I removed it. Cattos^💭 16:53, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

  It would be the best to have a url; I just asked to format a bare link I formated recently (from DIY link to template) :) —LastJabberwocky (talk) 17:00, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

@Cathodography: Oooh, I feel you with the library. I also cannot access it. As far as I know you we don't need to apply; most of the sources already should be available. I wrote in the relevant discussion but they are also clueless what the problem can be. So here we go. I found that I can access EBSCO database via "template:Find sources AFD". —LastJabberwocky (talk) 16:56, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

• Do these sources work for you and . Not working for me. —LastJabberwocky (talk) 20:10, 1 May 2025 (UTC)  Done
  • Only the second one works for me. The first one seems to site-move "consequenceofsound.net" to "consequence.net". The second is a redirect to /features instead of /feature. I've archived the two. Cattos^💭 22:45, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

Copyright

copyvios picks up three sources with excessive presence of copyrighted material. One is a wiki mirror (irrelevant). Another two are soundonsound and shortlist. We need to trim/rephrase some quotes, in particular these ones: —LastJabberwocky (talk) 20:02, 1 May 2025 (UTC) Pending

• "At that time, apart from the harmoniser, he didn't go for much backing vocal or harmony work – he's done that more on recent albums – but he did like to experiment".
• "Morrissey, Johnny and I had a really good working relationship – we were all roughly the same age and into the same kind of things, so everyone felt quite relaxed in the studio"
• The Queen Is Dead was ruined by a technical glitch on the tape

• Done Cattos^💭 15:45, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Peer review

The Queen Is Dead

I've listed this article for peer review because it just got promoted to GA, and I plan listing it to FA.

Thanks, Cattos^💭 18:42, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Pbritti

Below are some comments based on just the Musical style section.

• "it offers a scathing anti-monarchist statement" This corresponds with "Searing, six-minute opener that splits venom at the monarchy" in NME 2016. I am hesitant to utilize "scathing" in wikivoice; consider replacing with the admittedly less eloquent "it is strongly anti-monarchist "
• Adjacent to the above passage, the quote "useless, taxpayer-funded tabloid fodder" needs to be clearly attributed in-line. The same issue can be observed elsewhere in the same section with "obvious depression", "jaunty pop backing", "sprightly and carefree", "lightning-fast drum rolls", "shot of punk adrenaline" (unlink "adrenaline", as this is a common idiomatic construction), "lashes out at media and the world", "casual dismissal of gender norms", etc.
• "Described by critics as one of his most poetic moments" is not supported by the corresponding "Rarely has Moz sounded more poetic" from NME 2016. This source presumably being the opinion of only one critic. The same over-application of a singular opinions as representing critical consensuses is evident elsewhere in this section.
• Overall, Marr's primary-source perspectives might be overrepresented in the section. While it is important to consider his views, the extensive quotations are sometimes unnecessary or unrelated to any commentary on musical style.

As it stands, I would say that an overuse of quotations and the failure to adequately attribute subjective opinions/quotes in-line are significant barriers to this article being promoted as an FA. ~ Pbritti (talk) 16:47, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for the review, it is greatly appreciated! :)) Cattos^💭 02:39, 5 July 2025 (UTC)

Query from Z1720

@Cathodography: It has been over a month since the last comment on this PR. Is this ready to be closed and nominated to WP:FAC? Z1720 (talk) 04:39, 10 August 2025 (UTC)

You can close it. I'll re-read the article and then I can nominate it. Cattos^💭 13:19, 10 August 2025 (UTC)

• @Cathodography: Instructions on how to close a PR are at WP:PRG. I recommend using the PR script. Z1720 (talk) 18:07, 10 August 2025 (UTC)

Ceoil

Can this be kept open please - will add comments in next few days. Ceoil (talk) 14:25, 11 August 2025 (UTC)

• Unfortunately, the prose needs a lot of work: unclear at times and too journalistic. I might spend a week or so copyediting (if that's ok), before listing specific complaints here.
• Disappointed to see that the sources are mainly magazine/news paper/website based when there are so many more in-dept books out there. In particular the omission of "The Severed Alliance" gives pause.
• The article is not ready for FAC but has potential, and would be delighted to help but it may take a week or so until I go into the weeds and give actionable feedback. ie this is still a placeholder. Ceoil (talk) 00:03, 14 August 2025 (UTC)